Phil Harrison tries (again) to clarify game ownership, second-hand sales & always-online in Xbox One

EuroGamer: "Ownership tied to login, there will be a resale mechanism, does require internet connection but not constantly."

[Abash]

This is getting hard to watch, I cant believe how MS is mishandling the Xbox One and doing so many things to make people not want one

[Root]

I think they are trying to backtrack because of the backlash they are getting. If the console was being praised which they were hoping then they wouldn't have a problem admiting these things but because it's getting backlash left, right and center they are bricking themselfs.

So these things are true, they are just trying to calm people down....sugar coat them untill E3 where they HOPE people will be amazed at the games and such where they won't care what they do with the console

[DeanSanchez]

So summary:

If someone wants to borrow a friends game, they'd have to have the original owner there to log into the original owner's account.

But if the friend wants to play the game with his own account, he HAS to pay a fee.

In the end, this is utter BS.

[EVILDEAD360]

LMAO @ Phil please stop while your 'NOT' ahead. I think it's just as confusing the second time.

At the end of the day, if gamers can play their games offline and are allowed to trade them in MS will be fine.

But, if they go weird with time limits etc. then IMO they are asking for the even controversy and fallout.

Evil

edit

'Looks like Phil Harrison is doing a good job.......as a sleeper cell agent for Sony!'

@ Edmix

Lol. He definitely isn't doing them any favors at the moment.

@ Dean

'In the end, this is utter BS.'

Yup. I think it's a dumb move to even open this can of worms. But, I see that maybe they are trying to avoid the ancient technique of this gens ban hammer.

[maxgamehard]

@DeanSanchez

Same goes for rentals, you would have to pay the used game fee for games you want to rent

[Christopher]

His responses weren't at all sugar coated, though.

What he said:

1. If you have one disc in a household, you can only play it on two consoles through the same account. Your little brother will have to pay to earn his own achievements.

2. You can not sell/give it to a friend once you've finished the game.

3. Only certain retailers will be able to sell these games. No pawn shops, Mom & Pop shops, eBay, or Amazon shops.

4. Online Passes are gone because now the whole game has a "Pass".

Questions unanswered:

1. If you ban someone's account, do they lose access to all of their games?

2. How much of a 'fee' will it cost to buy a used game?

3. Who will control the 'fee' to buy a used game?

4. What retailers will do this and will they be available in rural areas (GameStop is closing how many stores this year?)?

[SilentNegotiator]

So anyone who buys a used game would either need a very complicated system of transfer or else would be paying TWICE.

Either way, very bad move, Microsoft. Good luck getting Gamestop to stock your consoles.

[fr0sty]

Heads are definitely rolling over this.

[gaffyh]

So basically the gist of this is that:

1. Used games are blocked and require an online pass like function to play the game at all. So it is in fact WORSE than the online pass.

2. You can't lend your game to your friend, because you have to login on his Xbox One. If you do trust your friend and give him your login details, you will MOST LIKELY not be able to login on your own Xbox One until that person logs out OR it will automatically log him out and kick him out of the game.

So it is NOT like how it is currently where you can play a game and lend it to a friend. MS is so f***ed up if they think consumers are THAT stupid. The second issue doesn't really bother me because I don't borrow or lend games, but the first issue DEFINITELY bothers me, because although I rarely buy used games, I sell my old games quite a lot. So this will decrease the resale value by a lot, if they even allow reselling of games at all!

Seems like all the rumours were true. MS is basically blocking used games, albeit in a rudimentary way, just to make more cash from the used games market. I can't believe they can be this stupid, the only thing that can save them is if they reduce the price of their games to $40 across the board.

[SolidStoner]

this is crazy, second hand game market on Microsoft side will be dead...

Hope its not true, I know many of gamers will still buy x box one, (it has COD on it, with exclusive 2 week DLC!!!!) so I dont want them to suffer like this, hope the used game fee is maximum $ 5, if more its a bad deal!!

[trouble_bubble]

"..If you have one disc in a household, you can only play it on two consoles through the same account. Your little brother will have to pay to earn his own achievements.."

wow. So dad has to buy the game, pay another fee for his son to play on his own tag, another fee for his daughter to play on her's, plus pay for online however many times and log in every so many hours cuz of DRM. Easier to just not buy the damn thing. Pray you don't divorced. We're gonna need pre-nups on console service soon. "Mom gets the account and kids during the week while Dad only see's his cheevos on the weekend" lol.

[SonyWarrior]

microsoft thought they could get away with ripping its customers off since they did it last gen with paying to play.... now it looks like they took it too far

[YoungKingDoran]

Well we need to know what the fee is going to be.
But there's still so many unanswered Qs at the moment... Do they themselves even have the answers at the moment?

So far, theoretically, my friends and I could "car pool" with games and ill pay the (cheaper than buying new?) license for all of their games and they'll pay the licenses for my games and... I'm pretty sure then MS are losing money as in the past, we would each buy any decent game ourselves.

Maybe it will be up to publishers for how much the fees will be.
This could get even worse than it already sounds.

[indysurfn]

1, All this linking to accounts to prevent a person from buying it and playing on several accounts is not needed. That is accomplished since the start of time by checking to see if the disk is in the drive!
2, If I cant sell what I bought to who I want I dont really 'own it'.
3, If I must pay any kind of fee to sell my game or the buyer has to pay a fee then I didnt really own it!
4,What if the fee is 25$ and the retailer has it for $24 used(because they get a discount) My game is worthless!
5,What if the fee is 25$ and the retailer wants to sell it for $35, that leaves $10 for me and gamestop to split! Who will get the most of that $10 I BET NOT ME! Will the used sector survive, or be worth it for $10?
6, Didn't the publisher get paid for this once already?
7, I dont have to pay 50cents to give my cd to my niece!

[JokesOnYou]

OK, yeah they f-up the PR but as long as the end result is that they are not going to block used games and I can loan my game to a friend, then Im good:

"I can come to your house and I can put the disc into your machine and I can sign in as me and we can play the game," he explained.

"The bits are on your hard drive. At the end of the play session, when I take my disc home - or even if I leave it with you - if you want to continue to play that game [on your profile] then you have to pay for it. The bits are already on your hard drive, so it's just a question of going to our [online] store and buying the game, and then it's instantly available to play.

"The bits that are on the disc, I can give to anybody else, but if we both want to play it at the same time, we both have to own it. That's no different to how discs operate today." -Phil Harrison

-So correct me if I'm wrong but once it has been downloaded to 1 profile you just need the disc to play on a friends console whereas the original owner doesn't need the disc to play?

[Bimkoblerutso]

You would also have to log in on that particular machine.

And I would assume that, even if you were fine with giving your friend your login information, you would not be able to be logged into multiple systems at the same time, seeing as there is an online requirement to play the games.

So yes, this is still ridiculously terrible.

[JokesOnYou]

OK you guys can keep disagreeing and spewing all the fanboy jokes all you like, jokes don't bother me one bit (see my name) nah but seriously I want to f-ing know what the hell they are doing with used games 'cause although I buy new I have lots of friends I let borrow games from time to time and this would suck.

Edit vvv my bad meant to reply to EDMIX

Edit @Bimkoblerutso, so bear with me but are you sure that as long as I'm not trying to play the same game at the same time that I loaned to him that it will work if I'm playing another game I own at the same time? I mean right now you need the disc to play on another console anyway.

[morganfell]

If you play with your disc on a friends console you have to sign in with your account and load your profile on his or her machine. Otherwise if he or she wants to play with it on their account on any machine outside of a family associated account they have to pay for it.

[MestreRothN4G]

Anyone stupid enough to buy it will need Internet connection ("logging in") when the game is installed and each 24 hours.
If you are the first owner who sold or lended to a friend, you'll have the 'bits' in your HDD and the license.
The 2nd buyer will have the 'bits' on disc and HDD (when he installs) but not the license.
He has to buy the game, the license. The 'bits' are free to put wherever who has the disk wants, because they're useless without the license.

So, yes, xone blocks 2nd hand games.

But that's no big deal. The console is aimed towards housewives, who don't even mind about all inconveniences ms is bringing.

[Bimkoblerutso]

I agree with you about the bubble/agree/disagree system, for what it's worth. It kind of promotes a passive approach to meaningful debate and discussion, if you ask me.

Edit: And if I'm understanding things correctly (which I will admit that things are STILL a little unclear) you register games to an account which has to be actively online for you to play those games. So I would assume that you can only be actively online on one system at a time. The "bits" are installed to a HDD but cannot be accessed unless they are registered to the profile being used.

But again, this is assuming that you don't mind giving someone else all your login information in the first place.

[JokesOnYou]

@Bimkoblerutso

Thanks..Yeah this isn't what I want, love my bro's but I ain't giving them my account info. I was excited to see the new console, still like it but this is definitely BAD news. Damm just leave all this DRM BS alone and I would of been a happy camper. The not-always-on but you-need-online doesn't bother me at all 'cause basicly everybodys already connected. Since this is essentially a software restriction hopefully if xbox fans make some noise on forums they will change this.

[Christopher]

***I have lots of friends I let borrow games from time to time and this would suck. ***

The _only_ way you can lend your friends a game is if you shared accounts. And, when they're playing, you can't play. Only way. You can't even play the same disc on multiple consoles in the same house unless you log in with the same account (so, no multiple accounts in a household).

[C-Thunder]

Will we even be able to give our account info? I thought it used Kinnect to Id us and sign in?

[ZodTheRipper]

Funny how everyone discusses how to avoid this system without mentioning that the PS4 doesn't have these problems at all. Microsoft is just making business from everything it can.

[_-EDMIX-_]

Looks like Phil Harrison is doing a good job.......as a sleeper cell agent for Sony!

HE IS DESTROYING MS FROM THE INSIDE!

Phil Harrison "err....yea Used games needs to be blocked......yea"

Don - "are you sure? I mean...people still buy and play used games"

Phil Harrison "do they Don?....do they really?"

Don -"...I guess not Phil"

Phil Harrison "good.....good (shifty eyes)"

[ginsunuva]

EXACTLY!

Why did Sony have trouble with the Ps3 before?
Phil Harrison!

Why does MS have trouble with the xbox now?
Phil Harrison!

[Ashlen]

It's standard Microsoft policy, sell the consumer the product they want them to have, not the product they want.

Even when they get huge amounts of negative feedback they don't listen and just do what they want.

[maxgamehard]

Just imagine how many people will buy the console without knowing this. Its sad when you look at it. I miss the good old times when you just popped in a disc and played your game without any worries

[Ron_Danger]

I miss the good old days when you popped in a cartridge, then pulled it out, blew in it, then popped it back in

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

On the bright side (if it can be called bright at all) if they block used games for real you can rest assured stores like GameStop (and other who deal in used games) will make sure every costumer who steps inside get informed, as it's not so good for their business, so it will save some of those uninformed.

On a separated note, I kind of seen it confirmed the moment EA said they were dropping Online Passes. Don't be surprised if you see something similar on PS4 (not on the console itself or other games, but from EA), instead of the online pass you'll need a license that works like that, not just preventing used sales, but also borrowing, multiple login, changing your account and what not... EA wouldn't let go of DRM.

[kenshiro100]

I do too Ron. Wish I still had my Super Nintendo now.

[Godmars290]

Were so engrossed in the system's media aspect they never once considered the choices they were making on the game side until after the presentation?

When the very people who were saying "don't do that" before started saying "we told you NOT to do that" and now they're left trying to explain how they didn't when it really looks like they did.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

Just sounds confusing and horrible. I know they want to do the whole switching between a video game and other apps being fast and seamless, but I don't think it's worth the confusion. Just go back to requiring the games to work with the disc and anything you buy online tied to the hardware/account.

I mean what if you go to a friends house to play one of your Xbox One games, but your friend doesn't have internet connection? What then? I'd say they should just scrap it, but I think it's too late.

[JonnyBigBoss]

I'm a normal person and I certainly don't want one.

Confirmed.

[Oh_Yeah]

Xbox one will be hacked into oblivion and rightfully so.

[bigrob904]

thats the first thing i thought as well. as soon as it's released it will be hacked in around a month. and i still wouldn't get one cuz i'll be too busy playing games on my ps4 with no hassle.

[kenshiro100]

Its like watching a train wreck. Seriously, whoever came up with this should be fired.

[ZodTheRipper]

It's definately the biggest PR disaster in a long time.

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

he has changed since sony.

He used to talk about games!!!

[Maddens Raiders]

Oh my....

my head is starting to ache from all of this corporate bullshit talk today honestly. I'm logging off. See you all later.

[Syntax-Error]

Not that many people travel around with games and take them over a friends house. How old are you people? I play games at home. usually my friends have the same game if I choose to play over their home. I am not a 12 year old that carries around video games from house to house so that is not going to prohibit me from buying a damn console. What is going to prohibit from buying it is the HUGE SIZE of it and the lack of software. Why would 75% of people care if their friend has to buy the game or not. If you log in under your account at your friends house you can still play it. ITS THAT DAMN SIMPLE

[bigrob904]

so you don't have friends or family that play games and may not always have the money to get every game they want? and if so wouldn't you let them borrow your game ? but even if you wanted to it would be moot because they would have to buy it anyways. me and my cousin, and yes we are grown men, borrow each others games all the time. i have one of his games right now.

[batbatz]

this is a disaster

[Nevers]

It's like watching a turd salesman with a mouthful of samples.

[Godmars290]

A disgusting yet accurate analogy sir.

*golf-clap*

[crazysammy]

lol Damn it bubble for you man.

[Majin-vegeta]

Ms just sell your studios to Sony and get out of the console business.And Enter Sega.

[Rusty515]

What studios?

[fsfsxii]

^^ This
OT:
At this point, MS just please get out of the console business

[maxgamehard]

The kinect ones jk

Ot: they just keep digging themselves into a bigger hole,

Even if they bring games @ e3 there is still that use game fee which is complete and utter BS

[Gamer-Z]

@Rusty515

hahaha oh man thats a good one ^_^

[Kujii]

didn't you watch the release? they are getting out of the console business!

[wishingW3L]

so much spinning just to end up in the same place. First you need to connect the console online at least once every 24 hours to be able to play games (offline games), and then that game you bought is attached to only one account and to play it on another one you have to pay.

No matter how they want to spin it to make it sound fine we still end up going back to where we started. They are blocking used games and you NEED an online connection. Plain and simple.

Example:

For your friend to be able to play that game he borrowed from you he will need your account but 2 accounts can't be online at the same time. So he will either need to pay to play it on his account or ask for yours but then you will not be able to play games while he's using it.

Do these guys think we are stupid or what?

[baodeus]

@wishingW3L

so let say what we have now, you let your friend borrowed that disc. If you both want to play it at the same time, how do you do it, since you only have one disc? Don't each of you need that disc to play the game?

A better question, do people even read the article?

Now with this new requirement of installing to your HDD which allow you to play off of it without the disc, what happen if you have 20 friends who pitch together and buy only one copy and everyone can just play it (since they can install them to their HDD)? How do you prevent that from happening? Is that a good thing for game developer? Wouldn't that be a disaster for game developer?

I can't believe people are that fickle or lack of simple understanding

"Do these guys think we are stupid or what?"

based on your argument, what they think isn't far off

quick disagree eh, ok so smart group of people answer me then? Anyone, i didn't think so.

@brucis,
that would be a better explanation. So technically you have to be there, and you can't really leave your disc with him. But can't he play off line (if he has the disc?)

[Brucis]

There's a difference between 'not being able to play that specific game because you lent it to a friend' and 'not being able to play any games because your friend has to use your account to play the game you lent him'.

Edit in response to edit: It's obvious the reason you need to install is because 'we needed a way to curb used games and get more money', not 'we made the games playable without the discs to please the fans, then we came up with a way to make sure people don't rampantly copy their friend's games'. The fact that it's mandatory and not an option speaks volumes of what their intent was.

Your condescension was far from necessary and makes you look like a scorned lover instead of someone who simply disagrees.

[00]

when I loan a game to someone they need MY account NOT just the disc.

[nypifisel]

Are you stupid? There is no need for it to have to be like this, the same security function could be had with forcing the use of the disc, not playing from it but just as confirmation that you own the game. The whole HDD installing BS is set up solely to enforce DRM. You're being had if you don't realize this.

[kenshiro100]

Are you seriously trying to defend this?

[lex-1020]

Ok. So let me respond to this.

1st. He was saying that 2 accounts can't be online at the same time. He didn't say playing the same game. So let's say my friend is using my account to play BF3, I can't log into the same account and play COD. Why? Because it's the same account trying to do 2 different things at 2 different places.

2. Installing a game to your HDD does not mean you can play it without the disc. What happens is you put the disc in, it reads the start information off the disc and than it reads a code that says to read the rest of it off the HDD. The disc than stops spinning and the xbox reads the information off the HDD. However if the drive is opened the Xbox will suspend until it can read the start information off the disc again. This is the way it happened with computers before Steam, with the PS3, with the Xbox 360 (installed games).

3. Allegedly yes, he can play for 24 hours offline before he has to reconnect to the internet to verify the DRM. SO basically, put the game is, start it on the correct profile, than take the console off the internet and you can play for 24 hours (While your friend plays online somewhere else, with some other game) before you have to reconnect.

4. Yes I did read the article, twice.

5. Maybe you should wait for a while to see if someone actually answers you before you assume your logic is infallible.

[stuna1]

Actually I do believe they think we are! Because for this whole generation they have gotten away with numerious things, and many have gone along with it! So it was only logical that this coming generation would be a perfect opportunity to see just how much they could get away with! They have been using Xbox Live as a vehicle to those ends, the intergration was a way to make those who have been loyal customers solely rely on that intergration.

I here a lot of Xbox supporter talk about their achievement points, friends list, cross game chat all behind a pay barrier and I realise this is why Microsoft has a fee, and more importantly why customers keep paying! Without that subscription, gamers become separated from who they are as gamers! Microsoft knows this, and it most likely why they chose to reveil the Xbox 1 like they did.

This may seem a little far fetched, but think about it! Many have devoted a lot of time and energy into Xbox Live, how would you feel if you suddenly had to start over from the beginning? You lost your online identity, friends you've made over the years, saved data, basically everything that made you who you are online.

[baodeus]

@wishingW3L

I apologize, i miss understand what you said at the last few sentences.

"For your friend to be able to play that game he borrowed from you he will need your account but 2 accounts can't be online at the same time"

since i did gloss over this " but then you will not be able to play games while he's using it."

If this is really the case, I'm not getting one either. I buy tones of games new (have like 100 of backlog games that I still haven't touch) so I do tend to lend them out a lot, and this will not fly with me either

:D

[Christopher]

***Do these guys think we are stupid or what?***

They think we'll buy whatever they put out. And, honestly, look at Sim City 4. HOw many people bought that knowing exactly what the issues were or not even caring about them? How many people will buy into the hype of the Xbox One and it's 'features you must have'?

In the end, people are stupid enough to buy this because they won't be informed or care until it's too late.

[DoctorXpro]

I play on my own
im always online
i dont sell my games
i dont ask games to my friends i buy them

I have zero problems about the Xbox 1

day 1

[rainslacker]

That's true, many people will buy the system completely oblivious, or uncaring about the actual problem here. However this isn't like SimCity, where it got patched and everything is fine now(relatively speaking). This is a whole underlying principal integrated into the system.

People may start off not even realizing what is in store for them. Soon, people will start going to trade in their games for new ones, only to be told they can't. That's going to start pissing them off as they find out the reasons why. These people aren't going to give one rat's ass about if the original developer or publisher is not making money off a used sale. These people are only going to see that they own nothing. That they spent $60 on a intangible product which is now theirs for life, regardless of if they want it or not. These people are going to be forced to use whatever "trade-in" program MS has in store for them, thus taking a huge choice away from the consumer. These people are going to get pissed.

The long term fallout is going to be worse than the short term complaining that we have now. Those of us complaining now will likely stay away to begin with. Those who have no clue will get shafted, without a single ounce of recourse but to either "Deal with it" or sell off the system and get another...if they aren't soured by the whole idea of gaming because of what happens.

Sadly enough, I'm like DoctorXpro above. I play and buy my games much the way he does. SP, mostly always online, don't sell my games, don't borrow or lend out games. But I will not support such blatant disregard for the consumer on the part of any company...and that goes for every company who decides to do such a thing...no matter how much a fan I am of theirs.

Here's something for Doctor to keep in mind. This scenario puts a unknown expiration date on both the console and the games themselves. The entirety of the game...not just whatever MP thing they may have. You believe that companies will forever and always maintain servers to support it? EA can't even support a game for more than 2 years.

[HyperBear]

Yeah he tried....He did make a little more sense this time around, yet when you read it, it still sounds confusing. It's not entirely the same between Xbox 360 and Xbox One....for starters you have to install the disc/game on "your" personal Xbox One first and has to be saved onto the Hard Drive under the account associated with "your" Xbox One.

Once you've successfully done that, then you can take that disc/game and insert it into your friends Xbox One, but you must log into your account on your friends Xbox One (and again it has to be saved to the hard drive of your friends Xbox One first). Then once you leave, even if you leave the disc/game with your friend, he'll either have to buy it to play it, even though it's already installed on his Xbox One or give him access to your account which possess a security risk.

Whatever happened to just insert disc into a console, signing in to your own profiles and playing a game regardless of who owns it or what account the game is under??

[Salooh]

In a short way :
Install > Register the game to your account > play

When you go to your friend house :
Install > Sign in to your account > play
4 > 1

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••
They say it's the same thing as if you own the disc in this generation but it's not. They are lying. So this confirms no borrow and they still haven't confirmed if you can sell games to people just stores with details coming later of how to do that. Just more complicated things to annoy gamers...

4>1 is kind of funny if you put it in a secret/hidden way. I hope articles or things like that do it xD

[mydyingparadiselost]

Whatever happened to just putting in a game and playing without profiles? Whatever happened to being customers instead of consumers? Whatever happened to gaming being about games? How about cheat codes and unlockables, buying full games, or not having to worry about how you will access those games in the future? Gaming is becoming a huge hassle.

[animegamingnerd]

24 hours ago i was thinking most likely none of them are going 3rd party at least this gen but after this morning my thoughts completely changed

[Akira2020]

Greed, that's all this is...just corporate greed.

[Kidmyst]

So many people will run out and buy a Xbox on not know half the info. Just because it's an Xbox. Sony will have some too but Sony doesn't charge fees for everything like MSFT still is looking to do.

[ginsunuva]

Sony was counting on that same brand recognition with the Ps3, so who says people won't switch brands again?

Oh wait there'll be some people who are afraid of losing their beloved gamerscore lol!

[DARK WITNESS]

at the end of the day it's up to us to spread the word.

The real killer is price point. everyone will pay attention to that.

[Excalibur]

This is going o blow up in their face.
As I said in another story like this, I am not paying ANYONE to play a used, borrowed or rented game, period.

I will not buy any console that tries to pull that crap, the greed the last few years in the gaming industry has gotten WAY out of hand.

[monkey nuts]

And the last time the Industry experienced greed on this level it collapsed in on itself. The same will happen again, unless the gamers of the world have been turned into mindless sheep that simply cheerlead their favourite brands...........

[rainslacker]

And if the industry implodes on itself because Sony does it too(which I'm thinking they won't...or at least hoping), then Nintendo may be the only one left to bring it back from oblivion. It's about the only one that would be looking at what the consumer wants overall(game content not withstanding).

I think the industry could use a good shake-up. I would really hate for it to collapse completely though.

[lex-1020]

Sorta but different type of greed. The last time the industry collapsed on itself was because of the over inflation of games. Everyone was making games as quickly as possible and it led to tons of bad games. People were afraid to buy anything other than the already established gems.

Different type of greed. And it was solved by nintendo coming out with a certification policy.

[THamm]

Perhaps Microsoft has done some sort of deal with GameStop or a similar retail entity

Exactly thats why Gamestop pres seemed not to worried about it like I said in other thread

[latincooker214]

i was thinking the same thing.

[InspectorG]

Good point. You would think Gamestop/Eb Games (here in Aus) would be massively PO'd about them taking away their business. I wonder if some of the purchase goes through their business or something???

[crazysammy]

I agree, and this makes no sense! So you take the worlds largest used game dealer and let them do used games? So its not about the developers then? You only want to shut out the small shops? This makes me crazy to think about.

[rainslacker]

He was actually surprised by it when asked about it. Like he didn't know about it...which is understandable. The comment about being confident they would be allowed seemed more like PR speak to not scare investors...not unlike most of the comments that come from them.

[latincooker214]

now i see why sony let this guy go lol he dont know if he coming or going. ps4 FTW:)

[monkey nuts]

It ain't the same Phil bra. The Phil that worked for Sony is British and bald........true story

[latincooker214]

yes it is bra not only british and bald but tall as hell.

[boldscot]

A colossal screw up.

[ziggurcat]

oh dear...

[PS4isKing_82]

The truly sad thing is this thing will sell a shit load here in America cause most Americans are idiots. They buy every new apple device, every new call of duty regardless of its value. So while it may seem shitty to us, the country as a whole will absolutely love this thing and it will sell millions of units. Sad.

[duli14]

hopefully only in murica and not everywhere else.

[Brucis]

Do you think they only sell in the US? Really?

People are stupid, not just Americans.

[Veneno]

My GF will buy one, but I sure as hell won't be the one paying for it. She is exactly one of the dummies you are talking about. I will do my best to tell her to go with PS4.

[Typical-Guy]

Why would I give my son ( if I had one ) my copy to PLAY IT ON MY FREAKING SYSTEM! .... Is he freaking high! Phil Harrison, thank god you left Sony.
And saying that how discs operate ?! I never seen a disc popping up a message saying "pay".... They have officially lost a consumer, you can rot in hell you greedy SoBs

[deadfrag]

Dead on Water this console!Sony and Nintendo will gather many new followers!

[swishersweets20031]

sony doesnt want xbox fans coming their way. they smell of too much butthurt and tears after today

[CalvinKlein]

I didnt read much about it since I was at work but it seems rumors were true. I already was getting ps4 first but I think I will just buy a wiiu instead of xbox next gen. If I do that would be the first nintendo console I got since N64. People think im a xbox fanboy because I hate ps fanboys but I Had both xboxs and all 5 PS, dont think I will get the new xbox milky nipple.

Id rather just buy a PC too with steam and someday half life 3!!! Its a cycle, shortly after HL1 came out I convinced my parents to buy a new computer with a pentium 3 and a voodoo 3(1999 I think). HL 2 came out and shortly after I bought my self a computer for "school." Still using it right now. Its old but runs firefox as good as any 2000$ hipster laptop. When HL 3 comes out I will buy a new computer to play that.

I buy all my games new but like to sell many of them online and buy more games. I would then just buy ps4 versions anyways if I can sell them so there is no reason for an xbox. Im looking forward to playing some 3d mario and the old ones on VC more and more now. I hope the 3d mario is like mario 64, maybe with 2 player luigi co-op like was supposed to be in mario 64 2.

Should call this thing xbox blow job.

I want the option to play a console long after its done, like my snes or dreamcast, etc that I have in my closet. This thing cant even do that, ahahahahahahha.

[r21]

Xbox one has a new form of DRM and as Im understanding it, you only need to login once and verify data and then you're ok to play afterwards. I could be wrong, the way he words his stuff out is a bit perplexing.

[boldscot]

Really can't believe how messed up this is. Basically if I had the new X-box in the living room and my son had one in his bedroom, we wouldn't be able to play each others games on our own systems.

[aviator189]

I give up.
I'll come back in time for e3 during june or whenever they can properly answer questions with utmost clarity.

[KarrBOMB]

Uhh, they're being unclear on purpose. I guarantee you that E3 is going to be the same BS. They're creating a huge PR problem that they won't recover from, no matter what stupid features they show at E3.

[SmokexFFx]

Phil Harrison, yeah you know best, except you didn't beta test.

[Bigpappy]

They are handling disk management like Steam does. I don't really like it, but I it is not a deal braker. I now understand how they are handling the disk sharing, but the use games thing is still fuzzy.

[KarrBOMB]

You know why the used game policy is fuzzy? Because the policy is something they're hoping people won't care about after E3. As a hard core gamer, I'm done with them just off the news they already released. They're about to hit a brick wall and I'm about to laugh.

[SaffronCurse]

This should not be so complicated, it's making my Migraine much worse thinking about this shit.

[KarrBOMB]

Wow, they are just digging themselves deeper and deeper. They are finished, they literally made every gamer choose Sony if they hadn't already done so. I have a 360 and PS3 now, but will only get a PS4 for a future console. I don't care what games they have at E3, I'll still be able to play COD on the PS4.

This is almost funny, they've determined that you basically can't borrow games, no Redbox either, and used games are either a huge task or will cost a fee. So no games through Amazon, EBay or any other method for fear of getting a worthless disc. Kiss you @$$3$ goodbye Microsoft, this is going to be a train wreck easily noticeable from months ahead of release.

[Azfargh]

Sometimes, silence is for the wise...

[Unicron]

So I can't loan my game to my pal free of charge so he can raise his gamerscore? That's.... Monumentally anti-consumer. And ridiculously stupid.

[Sarobi]

And from the sound of it you can't play a game that YOU BOUGHT on another Xbox live account on the same system.

[Veneno]

If I understood correctly you can play the game but still have to pay to earn acheivements? God f-ing damn it this is confusing.

[Sarobi]

Talk about jumping through hoops.

[TemplarDante]

Its 5AM where I am. I just woke up.
I thought it was all a bad dream...
Im still in the Twilight Zone!
Make it stop!

[rataranian]

So he clarified even further that they are trying to control the used game market and charge money to buy used games? Ah thanks. Now what we thought was bs is still actually bs. Glad we're all on the same page.

[NarooN]

This is such a f*****' disaster, LOL! I swear, Phil H. is a spy for Sony, slowly annihilating their game division from the inside. I honestly didn't even know he left Atari or whatever to join them. This is insane.

[OSIRUSSS]

Double Agent Phil!!!

[monkey nuts]

A safer bet would be apple, or google. Think about it.........

[tiffac008]

So in the end, if I borrow a game from a friend. I have to pay a fee kinda like an online pass thing. Hmm... That's kind of disheartening.

[00]

so you would pretty much pay 60$ for a used game.

[Godmars290]

Actually if the disc isn't required to play a game isn't it possible that several friends could get together, chip in to buy a game, then share it between them while paying the added cost of re-activation?

Three guys get together and put in for $60, 1st puts up more since they don't have to pay for activation ($15+$15+$30) and activation is $10, then instead of each having to shell out a total of $180, its more like $25/$25/30.

[rainslacker]

Yes, and that's likely the reason it exists. The more convenient method would be just to deactivate it on one system when it's activated on another and make it seamless for the consumer. Of course that requires always-on or mostly-on to make it work.

The benefit for publishers was that it's a good method for blocking used games, and incurring sales from the 2nd hand market.

I think the whole thing got kind of meshed together somewhere in the development of how to prevent the first part, some publishers were like "ohhhh...hey MS why not do this(the 2nd part). MS saw possible money and said "OK" without realizing how much of a disaster it would be from a PR standpoint, and possibly completely cripple the One the day of it's reveal.

I've seen hate for new console announcements every time a new console has been announced, no matter from what company it is in my 30+ years of gaming. But nothing tops the utter PR disaster that this reveal and subsequent reports have brought about.

[OSIRUSSS]

Sooo do Blu Ray movies have to be loaded on the Hard drive?

[Double_O_Revan]

"That's no different to how discs operate today."

No, that's not how discs operate today. If lend my buddy my disc, I cannot play it, true, but my buddy doesn't have to pay $20-60 to play it on his system.

That is not how disc ownership works Phil. It is mine and I can do whatever the hell I want with it. That includes letting my son, friend, whoever play it at no cost.

[Excalibur]

I guess the thing that really kills me is where does M$ get this audacity that they think they can profit from a used game?

I mean even if it's only a dollar, you didn't make the game so why should you make a single solitary dime from it?

What gives you the right to charge someone for playing a game that I let them borrow? IT'S MY GAME!
I PAID THE SIXTY DOLLARS THE PUBLISHER ASKED FOR IT!!!
If I want to let them borrow it how or why should you be able to profit from it?

I dunno that seems like some sort of copy right infringement or something.
There certainly feels like there could be some sort of lawsuit for publishers to file.

[stuna1]

I guess this is why the disc have watermarks on them! It might also mean no two are alike, kind of like a fingerprint.

[fegam2]

Fuck MS is all i can say. I live in central america and down here at least 40% of the gamers play only offline. So now these gamers will need to somehow access the internet to activate their games and even so they are fuck because you will need a connection every 24 hours period. Conclusion they will flock to SONY system not because they like it better but because it is their only option avalilable.
Third world countries are poor (the minimum wage in my country is $12 per day) playing videogames is a expensive luxury, here a new game is $80, so we gamers go to the second hand market in order to play a lot of games. We buy some games, we rent others and we lend games to friends to maximize our hobby. So now i have to pay a FEE to play used games, FUCK YOU MS; and phil harrison tried to wash his hands by saying "don't worry you could use the same disk in your house for different people" but failed to say the most important part: if my brother play my game that is attached to my xbox live account he will not be able to get any ACHIEVEMENTS, like he will normally do right now with any ps3 or xbox 360 disk game. So again Fuck U MS.
Xbxo one will not funtion without kinect, that is BS, I have played lots of games on my 360 and I have never been interested in kinect. What about if the kinect sensor is damage, i cannot longer play the console?.
I have been loyal to MS since the original xbox but now i fell betrayed and taking for granted. seems like MS no longer care for the hardcore gamer, the one that took MS where is today. It seems that thounsands of gamers around the world will flock to the SONY camp and they should becuase MS deserves it. sony just now have to say: you now what our ps4 does not requiere a connection to the internet to play, you can play all the used games you want, and then sat and enjoy the fall of the X1. Again FUCK U MS.
conclusion: You have all these innovation with X1: a Kinect that absolutely needs to be connected at all times, people who buy pre-owned games are probably going to get Fucked, you can’t lend games you paid for with your money to your friends, and that you do indeed have to have an Internet connection in order to play. INCREDIBLE SPECS INDEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

[quenomamen]

Thank You !

Hey MS I got some stats for ya:

"AT THE END OF 2010 70% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION HAD NO INTERNET ACCESS. AND AS OF 2012 20% OF AMERICAN HOUSEHOLDS DON'T HAVE INTERNET ACCESS"

http://blog.laptopmag.com/d...

http://www.huffingtonpost.c...

[GABRIEL1030]

If I was the interviewer I had asking to him:

Harrison you are a Sony's spy?

Talk about us of your infiltrator career in the Helghan Army?

How can only a man destroy an entire Xbox division, COD black Ops inspired you?

[AD705]

So I can still play my friends xbox one games on my system. I just have to be log into my friends account on my xbox one to play them. Also if I wanted to play his games on my own xbox one account I have to pay a fee?

Even if we don't have to pay fees for used games right now it still seems like it's going to be a pain in the rear just to even play used games or your friends games on your very own console.

I don't like the WiiU much but atleast I'll give them credit for somethings.

the online isn't epic but atleast they improved it

it has the decency to be BC with the previous gen without some gaikai or whatever bullshit.

and nintendo has it's console centered around bringing games. It's the only true games console around. Sure I don't like it that much but atleast it cares about what matters most.

[Bumpmapping]

Xbox is one POS PS4 Greatness awaits!

[AD705]

You still can't play the game unless your logged in onto the account that it was originally downloaded to.

I can't play my friends verison of halo 5 on my xbox one unless I am using his account on my console. If I want to play it using my account then I would have to pay a fee.

[Max-Zorin]

Forget shot themselves in the foot. They blew their legs off with a 12 gauge shotgun. They're charging to play games used, which prevents any borrowing whatsoever. And I read that you need the internet just so it can function. Anti-consumer at it's finest. I don't see how anyone will buy the Xbox One. Normally I get more than one system if not all of them to try to play everything. But I'm just gonna get a PS4 and call it a day. What they're doing is ridiculous.

[quenomamen]

Feel sorry for all the 8 year olds who live in the stix this Xmas who try top play COD only to get a

" Please Connect To The Internet Now "

splash screen over and over. Thanks Grandmaaaaaa !

[2v1]

so no more renting games from redbox

[strigoi814]

Phil harrison is not on its own default settings..alert!!

[BlackCarrot]

Absolute nonsense reply. It's a simple question: does it require an internet connection to play video games? Can it play used video games? Mr Harrison is not clear, and it appears this is his deliberate intention. I'm glad video games journalists have pointed this obvious fact out, but they should be confronting the likes of Mr Harrison over this and demanding a proper response on the question we all want an answer for: yes or no, does it require the internet to play games?

Abysmal showing, and as a person who has never owned an Xbox but genuinely considered the possibility for this generation, I am gravely disappointed.

[Obamanationn]

SO i get they'll setup SO Retail Stores can buy your game on the CHEAP , then Sell it much Higher , but you can only play ur game on another system if your friend has your login passwords meanwhile you cant play ur games while back at your home, SO this is the console system that Doesn't LET YOU BORROW YOUR FRIENDS GAME for a weeknd ? WOW THIS IS HUrting me on the inside ... this changes everything I'm going Sony this holiday season

Xbox One = NO BORROW You're Friends GAME POLICY / NO RENTING GAMES from netflix or gamefly type of business Policy , The most ANTI-Social Console

Nintendo if they didn't screw up the WII U could of made a killing from this huge mistake by microsoft . Sony may be in competition with themselves

i CANT even go on up a summit for a Snowboarding trip w/ friends and family and bring my console because I HAVE to have a internet connection nearby , in the middle of a Mountain range on my ski trips or in 24 hrs I have a 30 pound dead paper weight

[ghostgaming]

Gaming is not and should not be this confusing - seriously WTF. Whenever somebody speaks to MS about the used/sharing/renting games one gets a different answer. Same goes with requiring online connection for single player game types.

[Saleem101]

Block used games wow talk about dying by your own sword.. Gamers shouldnt support this practice Microsoft is anti consumer....

[Bonerboy]

"Always" on line? Whatever, thats fine by me, but Phil "clarifying" the rest of this pile of shit makes him sound like slickster lawyer who is trying to sugar coat a disaster in the making. Insulting our intelligence doesn't plug the holes in their leaky dingy, it makes the millions of fickle gamers out there break out the cork-screw and stab away, and then swim on over to Sony's yacht. Utterly ridiculous.

I was considering ,no, going to buy a new xbox as I love my 360 but sorry Im not dropping my pants for you MS, I'll pass on this box Phil baby.

Hello Sony, nice to get reacquainted with you after so many years!

[iliimaster]

its not always online only when you put in a disc and push play then u have to sign in to xbox live so it can verify u can play or PAY then u can sign off? disgusting

[Flames76]

Ive been with Xbox since 2001 and the the 360 is hands down the best console ever made and i have played them all since the atari.With that said i can't support the Xbox one.Not because of the internet or used game's that's fine i agree with that.The reason i wont be buying it is because of the kinect.It was confirmed a bit ago it has to be plugged in for the Xbox to work.Thanks for screwing all of your hardcore fans over that got you where you are today.Looks like gaming is dead.Hopefully the gaming market will crash next gen and can start over with new companys

[BOLO]

"and the the 360 is hands down the best console ever made"...Xbox! Dispel comment credibility!

[iliimaster]

this makes no sense what so ever its like were being punished on this system and who knows what if hell freezes over and ps4 restricts games aswell ?full mandatory hyper HD games on layer bluray discs over 30gig installs

o yeah i got the new halo ill bring it over to play... pop it in o sweet theres only a 3 hour install? i hope sony sees the backlash and doesn't think twice about putting such restrictions on a Gaming console

[mikeyphi]

If online connectivity is a prerequisite for owning an XBOX1, then u might as well not even put them in the PX MS! Us soldiers will be buying PS4s!

[1OddWorld]

My comment is only about Purchasing/Selling/Sharing used games not the always online problem.

You all seem surprised at this type of DRM. If you follow intellectual property law you would see that this is a huge issue for the creator. You can blame whom ever you would like for these changes, but you need to point your finger at your favorite games. Developers have been pushing this issue since used games became a mass market that was dramatically effecting their perceived profits. Sony also has said they have the technology in their machine but are leaving it up to the developers whether to block used games. Developers are the evil people you are looking to lynch over this issue. Developers will be the ones reaping the profits of this not Microsoft and not Sony (they will receive small percentage for protecting the IP, so I guess they will get paid but not as much as the developers).

So direct your anger at Rockstar, 343, Eidios, Blizzard, Activision as well as Microsoft and Sony and many many more.

How dare they do everything they can to protect their creation and their profits.

Now please kill the messenger for speaking the truth and shedding light on the the non-issue.

[iliimaster]

the point is when you buy something its yours to do what u want with it period. and this line has been crossed by microsoft and hopefully sony doesn't cross it aswell or i wont buy any of them

[1OddWorld]

I agree with you but that isn't how Intellectual Property law works. The game developer is selling you a disc which is nothing more than the key to play the game. By law you don't have the right to turn around and sell his Intellectual Property, but you can sell the disc for that is your property. But the disc{key} only works on your console. So it is worthless after original purchase.

These measures are being taken to protect profits and prevent piracy, but I also believe they are strangling their loyal customers.

[DARK WITNESS]

Great now all sony need to do is release the ps4 before the xbox1 and make sure it's priced well and it's a done deal

[rytlok]

everyone at microsoft needs to be fired!!!

[Tzuno]

You know what Microsoft? you dig your own hole :))) greedy bastards. Lol taking the son and father way to explain their dirty plan :) looks like they treat customers like drug addicts and we need to accept everything they decide so they can give us the drug. i will upgrade the shit out of my pc then :)

[SaxScrotumz]

So at the end of the day when MS moves on to the next thing, Will your xbox ONE be bricked???? I am thinking, YES. So We are only basically renting a system and their games for the consoles cycle.

[CYBERHATER]

FUBAR!!!!!!!! This is the same BS they did with Halo 2 multiplayer and the original xbox! Halo 2 multiplayer was my favorite game and the reason I bought and xbox. the Lan parties with friends where priceless! But the only way I can get the same experience today is through the PC program Xbox Connect. Because Microsoft has once again forgotten where they come from. But this time around Microsoft you have made a grave mistake!! PC GAMER FOR LIFE!

[jdaboss]

The back peddling and double talk is just getting painful to watch..

[RavageX]

Hey guys, I just thought of something. I see that Gamestop seems to be all for the new Xbox, and I personally find that odd.

But what if MS has made some sort of deal with Gamestop regarding the sell and trade of used games?

Maybe some silly points system instead of money,etc.

Perhaps they will sell you a new code provided by MS so you can play the used games you buy and profits are shared?

[TBONEJF]

Phil Harrison and crew WILL LOOSE LOTS LOTS OF CONSUMERS in the end

[Kidmyst]

This is sort of like PC gaming but worse. With PC gaming I install a game with a key, OK same kind of here. But when I sell or lend that game and the key is registered to someone else, we both can't play online but I can still play the game single player. We have done this with lan parties and play on a lan so we can have several guys playing off one copy. In this case you can't even play single player without a fee. I get basically needing the disc to play but not a fee to play it period. He said it's like how disc work today, no not really. Today If I want to play then Yes I need the disc, but if I lend it to a friend, he can play it still on his account with the disc.

[ManOnFire]

If this is true we will be buying the right to play a game but we will not really own the game. Not cool !

[Thomaticus]

I'm glad they don't have this digital rights permissions with DVDs.

[Jag-T1000]

I'm kinda wishing Gamestop decides not to sell this system and its games. That'll teach Microsoft! Unless PS4 pulls a fast one, the PS4 will be the system I'll be purchasing this Xmas.

[punisher99]

"The next issue is what happens when you finish with a game and want either to trade it in at a store or sell it on in another way."

"We will have a system where you can take that digital content and trade a previously played game at a retail store," Harrison said. "We're not announcing the details of that today, but we will have announced in due course."

Now guys. I dont know about you. But there is something very very sneaky about this.

[Adolph Fitler]

Money grabbing scum, is what they are.
Of course the big, already stanking rich EA's & Activision's of the world support this game lock & extra charges crap......But, that is cause they are assured to benefit the most, as they have no trouble selling idiots another Fifa, Madden or COD.........But, what do the little guys stand to gain from this whole thing? The poor little developers under the big publishers banner, that will cop the brunt of gamers hate (much like with Treyarch's mistreatment by Craptovision, by using them to develop multiple titles, under ridiculous time constraints, & thus delivering some mediocre experiences, like with there Bond game, & then in the end, gamers tarnished Treyarch with the "crappy developer" brush, when they are anything but).

Gamers will shun these developers games, as they don't want to buy an unknown IP, knowing the game is worthless & has little to no resale value, due to this whole anti-used games stance MS & many of the big developers/publishers are pushing.
These pricks know the Fifa's, Maddens & COD's are still gonna sell like hotcakes & make them stupidly fat wads of cash, as mindless zombies will just keep paying for the latest yearly updates, as the know they will just be getting more of the same, known thing, & a mass bulk of these people won't bother with trading, or selling last years model.

And, the independent developers that self publish are going to suffer this forced thing, as gamers know that there will be no resale or trade value in buying there games. I think this crap, has the potential to do more harm than good to this industry. I see it causing more & more developers to take less & less risks, & so, we will be stuck under even bigger avalanches of war themed & space alien themed fps's.

I may be wrong, & way off base here......but, I can't see any potential for good here, just more reluctance from consumers to buy unproven IP's, & as a result, more & more awesome developers either going broke, or making me-too genres of games, or being scared off to the mobile IOS marketplace, to avoid going broke.

[Adolph Fitler]

So, gamers need to buy a PS4, & support developers like the Zippers, Incognito's, Insomniacs, Naughty Dogs, Team Ico's, etc, etc......& stop letting games like Starhawk, Socom: SF (I care not about traditionalist haters, as I loved Socom 1 & 2 better than any other online game EVER, but Special Forces is still a great game, in it's own right), Twisted Metal, infamous, & all the other great AAA+ Sony exclusives, suffer the indignity of selling in far lesser numbers than they deserve. I mean, what is wrong with people.....even bigger Sony sellers like Unchartered & Killzone 2 & 3, deserve to sell 10 times the amounts they are, as they are THE HIGHEST QUALITY standard of games available this gen.

The Last Of Us, should sell similar numbers to what COD4 sold on PS3......but it won't sell close to that number, as there is something wrong with the brains of Sony Playstation's majority of owners, that won't allow them to support Sony's truly great exclusives. I mean, Nintendo fans will by Mario, Zelda, Metroid, SSB's Mario Kart etc in droves, & MS fans will lap up the Halo's & GeOW's in record numbers to go alongside there latest COD's.......
But for reasons unbeknownst to me, PS fans/owners, just do not get out & support some of the greatest games in there respective gens..... They would prefer to support the (mostly) 3rd party multiplat, dime a dozen titles, that can be gotten on any old platform.
I mean, I have strayed far enough off topic now, & I will finish by saying, I will be purchasing a PS4 day 1, & will continue my support for awesome Sony developers, by still buying games like The Last Of US (even though it is so late in PS3's life), as well as Quantic Dreams new one, as well as supporting PS4 titles like Infamous:2nd Son, Killzone, & also new IP's like Driveclub from awesome developers such as Evolution........& I will buy all these titles with the freedom of knowing, although I will never sell or trade them, the option will be there.