Microsoft job listings back up "leaked" Xbox 720 specs

OXM:

You know what's fun? Literally anything that isn't combing through dozens of Microsoft job listings in search of telling phrases such as "next generation Xbox". Still, every now and then I just can't help myself, and every now and then, the effort proves worthwhile.

For instance: we now have something in the way of official confirmation that the next Xbox will utilise the x86 processing architecture rather than Xbox 360's PowerPC setup, as rumoured. Microsoft is seeking a software development engineer to work on Xbox 360 and Xbox Live, see, and experience with the x86 architecture is "desirable". Conclusive. Well, it is if you squint.

A good time, perhaps, to revisit this supposed next gen Xbox specs breakdown. Alternatively, you might give a little more thought to whether you really want the next Xbox to be backwards compatible - the choice of an x86 architecture makes this rather less likely.

[sherimae2413]

it has 8gb of ddr3 and 32mb of esram....
hey what is esram?
and which is better this 8gb of ddr3 or the ps4 8gb of gddr5? ^_^

[Gazondaily]

Gddr5 would be better afaik

[sengoku]

xbox specs tidbit's
brought to you by who have lost there jobs and the we are still looking for.

[Gazondaily]

@sengoku

Wtf are you on about?

[bintarok]

Fix me if i am mistaken, i won't bite you. The PS3 has a faster kind of RAM too @3.2GHz compared to the 360's GDDR3 @700MHz. Don't you remember XDR?

What really help the 360 up to speed is EDRAM. Now they gonna use ESRAM(?) for the 720.

[Zashule]

@bintarok
I am going to correct you, thanks for the invitation. The 360 does not run on GDDR3 RAM, it runs on DDR3 ram, and I don't know any DDR3 RAM that runs at 700MHz, so I have no clue where you are getting your numbers from, not that clock speeds even matter for this comparison. The main advantage GDDR5 has over DDR3 is going to be its bandwith, not its speed.

[sengoku]

have you read the article??
it's trying to deduce info on the next xbox by looking at what kind of job opening's there are at M$ studios.

xbox tidbits brought to you by who have lost there jobs and the we are still looking for. (people to fill these jobs)

the job losers i refer to come form another earlier but very similar article on n4g today

http://n4g.com/news/1238997...

in that article they have 4 former M$ employees that refer to the next xbox in there CV's trying again to deduce information on next xbox by looking at what project they have worked on there..

get it?? so deducing tidbit by looking at people that use to work there and job openings available today.

see those 2 that agreed got it..
LOL seemed so obvious.

[sengoku]

and lets not forget the mother of all job loser Adam #dealwithit Orth

most of what we know to date about x720 is from employees that had worked there got fired or job openings..

[aquamala]

@Zashule

DDR3 goes up to 1066Mhz now (PC3-17000). but yeah 700Mhz is an odd number, the parts should be 666,800,933,or 1066Mhz.

[davekaos]

@Aquamala

DDR3 goes upto 1066 now???

It goes into 2Ghz and this has been like this since day 1 of DDR3. My Corsair Dominator GT is clocked @ 1600Mhz but overclocked to 1800

EDIT

Just so you can see for yourself.
http://www.overclockers.co....

[hesido]

@Zashule: Xbox360 runs on GDDR3 @ 700 mhz . Not DDR3. GDDR3 to DDR2 is what GDDR5 is to DDR3; they are based on the latter technologies.

Source: Xbox 360 system architecture technical paper by none other than Microsoft:
http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~m...

[jivah]

@davekaos Actually ram doesn't necessary have a defined ceiling yet. Its constantly rising. Corsair has the dominator platinum as well as the vengeance unleashed that breaks through and runs at a proposed 3ghz/3000mhz. Crazy shit. Curious to how high ddr4 will get.

[CEOSteveBallmer]

Gddr5 is better even if you ask anyone who are PC techie. its the latest as of now for graphics ram, DDR is for CPU ram. but both has almost the same functions. DDR3 is still the latest for CPU ram DDR4 they say is still coming out

[nirwanda]

I'm inclined to think that ddr3 may be better than the gddr5 just purely on it having a lower latency, google it if you don't know what latency is.
Yes gddr5 will be the best if all the data is in order like it is on graphics cards but because the cpus, sound chips and the gpu will all be accessing it then maybe ddr3 will be faster, it will be all down to the memory controllers and the way the games are programmed themselves which will determine which is the fastest memory.

If the leaks are right I think the 720 will be quad channel memory too, im sure the said it would have a 256bit bus.

Anyway another way of looking at it is like the bluray drive in the ps3 verses the dvd in the 360 gddr3 will have longer seek times (latencey) but will be faster if its properly ordered for the gpu just like a bluray is faster than dvd

[2pacalypsenow]

@nirwanda DDR and GDDR are two completely different types of ram they are not comparable

[nypifisel]

@nirwanda

Seeing how they are mainly gaming machines (well at least the PS4) the bigger bandwidth of GDDR5 is quite the advantage over DDR3. I believe Microsofts choice going with DDR3 rather than higher bandwidth memory tells us a little something about the next Xbox focuses - being more multi-everything oriented and less about games. The PS4s design is pretty much how you would design a gaming-machine.

Don't think the DDR3 would rake any benefit over the GDDR5 in whatever spectrum I can see these consoles work in, well they are there but hardly noticeable - the other way around on the other hand gives the PS4 quite the advantage (If we were to look at these machines as being mainly focused on gaming)

[ChrisW]

The larger bandwidth of GDDR5 will only have its advantage in the years to come. Currently, there are no games, not even on the PC, that take full advantage of the bandwidth available today. For example, two computers with the same setup (same CPU, GPU, & Gbs of RAM) except using DDR2 and DDR3 are capable of running the same game at virtually the same frame rates.

Meaning more or faster RAM has little to no effect on FPS. It helps with multitasking, which is where the PS4 will shine. Please understand, it's the CPU and GPU that directly effect the processing of graphics and FPS.

Currently, both consoles would be capable of playing today's games with only 2Gbs of RAM each. The 8Gbs in the consoles obviously is for future proofing as games and applications become more demanding.

However, keep in mind that DDR3 is cheaper than GDDR5 and thus the Xbox720 may more than likely have a price drop sooner.

[Arai]

The 8Gb GDDR5 in the PS4 provides 176GB/sec of bandwidth.
While the current rumored/leaked specs of 8Gb DDR3 + 32mb ESRAM provides 170Gb/sec for the Xbox 720.

The Xbox 720 has a split pool of memory, 8Gb DDR3 provides 68Gb/sec while the 32mb of ESRAM provides 102Gb/sec...giving it 170Gb/sec.

Hope that helps...

[kneon]

You can't just add the speed of the two memory pools, such a number is meaningless.

[nirwanda]

@kneon yes you can access both memory pools at the same time as they run off different memory controllers, both the ps4 and the 720 process from several cashees on the gpu/cpu and the data is fetched from the main memory or memory's.

[kneon]

Sure you can access them separately, but you are assuming the usage is completely independent. Much of the time their usage will be inter-dependent meaning that the slower of the two will determine the maximum speed. Transferring data from one to the other can't go any faster than the slowest memory.

[nveenio]

It's true. ESRAM doesn't magically make the DDR3 faster. That's just a crazy assumption. DDR3 will be the bottleneck on this system, if that is indeed what it uses..

[nirwanda]

http://www.vgleaks.com/wp-c...
@kneon and inveni0
Yes it does combine they read and write independently the esram read/writes directly to the gpu and northbridge and the ddr3 to the northbridge, next you will be saying the level 1, 2and 3 cashees the gpu has its speed held back by the ddr3
See this chart like I said in my first post its the memory conroller that determines the memory access speed just like an ssd for instance

[kneon]

When you have a cache miss then yes the speed is held back. In fact it ends up being worse than had you skipped the cache completely and accessed the ram directly since each cache miss incurs a small latency.

Cache performance is highly dependent on the nature of the data being cached and how frequently new data is needed.

If you can predict what data will be needed next and if you have sufficient time to prefetch the data then cache performance can approach the theoretical maximum speed of the cache, but if it's highly randomized then performance will drop.

[WUTCHUGUNNADO]

GDDR5 is a modified DDR3 module geared for higher bandwidths with the trade off being higher latencies (slower communication) which is great for GPU purposes but could pose a weakness for CPU related tasks.

DDR3 offers lower latencies (faster communication) which suits the needs for the CPU but the bandwidth isn't as wide so it would pose a weakness for the GPU.

What people don't acknowledge is the fact that the tech has to be powerful enough to fully saturate the bandwidth in order to notice a difference which the confirmed specs of the PS4 and the rumored specs of the 720 are far from matching.

[nukeitall]

I was going to post what you said, at a lot less detail. :D

That said, yeah for multi-tasking operations i.e. task switching DDR3 is much better, but for graphics GDDR5 tends to be better. That of course assumes you have enough processing power to need all that bandwidth or low latency, which the PS4 doesn't have. The next Xbox specs isn't revealed, but if the rumors are correct then it doesn't have it either.

Basically there is good reasons to choose either one over the other.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@WUTCHUGUNNADO nailed it. Ultimately the differences of the memory setups and types are really going to be about what the machines are looking to do. Its all the behind the scenes stuff that really will determine which set up is better.

And ....the next xbox is still not official so its speculation at this point anyway.

[aquamala]

rumor just doesn't make sense to me, even low end AMD cards like 7750 uses GDDR5, why would the next xbox use DDR3 for graphics?

[user7693958]

lol at the nobody's saying DRR3>GDDR5 hahahahaha
and more funny those who saying the GDDR5 is no needed since the PS4 has not enough raw power hahahaha

serious note..
let's hope M$ updates to GDDR5..(even if they have to delay it) I don't want the xbox stopin the third party devs from using the amazing raw power of gddr5 that all of the sudden means nothing and apparently sucks lol

[Nitrox]

YeeeeeeHawwwww! I can't wait to see what a machine powered by GDDR5 is capable of! I hear gddr5 outperforms even an Intel i7 in terms of raw power!!!

[kane_1371]

you see, GDDR5 is already used commercially on PCs.
So nobody is going to say GDDR5 is bad.
Actually it doesn't even make sense.
GDDR5 is for GFX DDR3 for system memmory.
Why are you people blending them together?

[Godmars290]

We need know whether or not MS is going to make their main focus games, or making their next system a cable box. That's going to greatly effect they do games if they do them at all. Just let whatever 3rd they can buy off to put their titles on a system they themselves will never properly explore.

[InMyOpinion]

You really hate them with a passion, don't you? :)

[nypifisel]

Aha! Well there, you said it yourself. You're looking to know what the focus of the nextbox will be, well the specs can actually tell us quite a bit about that. Particularly the memory, the DDR3 vs GDDR5 debate is in this regard highly interesting. Cause if the nextbox as rumoured goes with the DDR3 it then tells us that it is as speculated in fact more multi-media oriented and less gaming so (DDR3 being better with multi-tasking and what not - let's say more CPU oriented rather than GPU (PS4)

[Godmars290]

No. If MS is only looking to make Xbox3 a cable box that plugs into a cable box people have to pay for to access their cable box with an Xbox3 UI, its going to effect how they make games. Not that their actual record for making games is especially stellar.

Though with the way this entire console generation has gone, the over-focus with realtime and 1st/3rd person, the moves towards motion control social gaming and multiplayer, I'm just as curious about what Sony's plans are.

I want some singleplayer gamers. Some StarFox and Panzer Dragoon clones. Turn based titles with pixel animations.

I want to have actual, honest fun playing games. I don't want some social engineered "experience" which some PR shill preformed verbal oral in attempt me to try and plod through.

[fr0sty]

To answer your question sherimae, GDDR5 has much higher bandwidth (can move more data at once) than DDR3 does. DDR3 has lower latency (can get that data to where it's going faster). However, video games tend to be more bandwidth hungry than they are latency hungry. So, in the case of PS4, having higher bandwidth seems to be the better trade off.

The ESRAM is similar to Xbox 360's EDRAM. It is a small pool of very high bandwidth RAM that MS is rumored to be using to help get around issues that are created by DDR3's low bandwidth. This will help get it's speed a little closer to GDDR5, and should also provide a nice high bandwidth frame buffer for good post-processing effects such as anti-aliasing. However, in the end it is not as desirable as a setup as 8GB's of unified GDDR5 would be because you are limited by only being able to have 32MB's at a time of high bandwidth RAM, vs. 8GB.

That said, GDDR5 is expensive, and will likely bring PS4's cost above that of the base console cost of the next Xbox. However, if Microsoft intends on including Kinect in every box, and so far most rumors back this up, that should level the playing field when it comes to cost.

[g2gshow]

@sherimae2413

this is basic information read an you will find out

[Ashunderfire86]

The girl just ask a question yet you guys give her 18 disagree. Man you guys suck.

[sherimae2413]

@ septic and griever
thx for the info guys ^_^

[Serjikal_Strike]

May reveal can't come soon enough to put an end to these fake rumor articles.

[famoussasjohn]

Impatiently waiting for the announcement.

[dcbronco]

This says nothing about the possibility of the next Xbox having BC because that would be a separate chip anyway. And it always would have been. The first PS3s included a Emotion Engine.

Serjikal_Strike speaks the truth. Too much space wasted on repeated nonsense and out right fanboy ramblings.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

OXm is notorious for cooking up fanboy articles i take their stories with a grain of salt as for the article it was a waste of time to read.

[gedden7]

I'm no fan boy to any system....

BUT if you guys are happy about this and not happy about Sony you got some issues...

Its gonna LOOK Exactly THE SAME! My poor Wii U will just have to rely on Good Games lol But def gonna get one of these beasts WHEN the price goes done to at least $299. Both will $499 (or more) at launch, and you know this!

[Godz Kastro]

I now understand why MS has not announced yet. Dude, they are stealing the headlines with rumors right now good or bad. Its all you see on every web site. Its like curiosity from haters and lovers alike generate hits galore. Keep giving MS free press and making their articles on N4g the hottest topic due to all the haters responding.

I was happy when the PS4 was announced and now its almost forgotten in terms of news on the websites ive seen; especially this one.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

That's great everyones looking at the specs in all that but what about the other Statement, Black Tusks and core Ip's in all that.

People can't complain about MS releasing Kinect only games now right since everyone read the article I'm assuming.

Hopefully we can have less wining, complaining about MS's game line up now? Ok, good.

[Godz Kastro]

I can wait until June... its a fun time although im glad ps4 announced so my attention is not divided during E3.

[BitbyDeath]

That'll do pig, that'll do.

[FITgamer]

Its funny how the first like 10 comments are one person correcting the next's comment.

[DonFreezer]

Can someone please enlighten me with why current desktop computers do not require gddr5 system memory and why the ps4 seems to be so depended from them?I mean even if you get a 5000usd or euro computer it would have ddr3 as system memory.

[WiiStation_360]

Because GDDR5 is graphics memory that's usually found on video cards. DDR has much lower latencies than GDDR; which is ideal for the CPU. For the PS4, I guess its more cost effective than having both DDR3 and GDDR5 ram?

[DonFreezer]

So why wouldn't it be cost effective for Microsoft too?

[WiiStation_360]

It probably would be, but it's totally up to them to decide how much the system will cost.

[WiiStation_360]

Omg people, if the next xbox is built like a PC... it'll have BOTH DDR(x) and GDDR(x) ram; ie DDR3 for the system/CPU and GDDR(whatever) for the GPU... assuming it's not an APU.
And pleaaaaaaaaaaase stop basing performance just on ram >.<

[DivineAssault]

Whatever.. Ill wait til its shown.. Tired of all this BS

[evilunklebud]

Laborious....... to say the least. People already declaring the next generation based on speculative rumors.....

[Godz Kastro]

Ps and Xbox fans unite!!! We are hardcore gamers and we are losing the industry to the casuals. Support these systems. Lets stop bashing each other and get this next gen started on the right foot!!!

Go MS! Go Sony!

Getting both...

[iNFAMOUZ1]

The xbox 3 is going to be beast, the king is here to stay.

[ATi_Elite]

If your sitting here trying to declare a better console by what type of Ram they use then your a MORON an know ZERO!

DDR3 + EsRam vs. GDDR5 = they are almost the same as in speed, latency, and bandwidth.

To declare a winner you first need to have BENCHMARKS which we don't cause NEITHER system is out.

also you need to understand how each system will be used and so far the PS4 is just a Game machine while the X720 is gonna be something else (cable box/PC/Media center).

The X720 looks like it's set-up to multi-task better with other chips that will handle work freeing up the CPU to do other stuff while the PS4 surely can multitask but at what cost to performance as everything will run through the APU and soak up the same ram.

PS4 = Looks to just Manhandle games through Brute force and Raw Speed.

X720 = Looks to have a system set-up to just offload stuff to other chips while having the Esram do dedicated functions that require Higher Bandwidth to keep the speed up.

PS4 = looks simple to program for BUT you gotta plan stuff out carefully cause multitasking will hurt performance

X720 = looks to have a higher degree of difficulty to program for BUT Microsoft surely has a Special DirectX to help offload intensive things to Esram and other chips on board to improve performance.

Both systems look capable and it's just how you go at them which matters most as their power is almost identical.