Bethesda: Used games 'absolutely' a concern

Used games are "absolutely" a concern for Elder Scrolls and Fallout developer Bethesda. Speaking with Destructoid, marketing vice president Pete Hines said his company has attempted to lessen the impact of second-hand sales by supporting games with downloadable content that encourages users to hold on to their discs, among other things.

"Absolutely it's a concern," Hines said. "We have tried to mitigate it by creating games that offer replayability, by supporting them with DLC that's worth hanging onto the game for, or offering tools that let them take things further."

[NastyLeftHook0]

well broken games are absolutely a concern for me bethesda

[Excalibur]

Agree.
Broken, short, unsupported and $#1tty games get traded in and then Devs wonder why.

Here's a Kooky thought, make the most fantastic game with great support and tons of re-playablity and people will never part with your fabulous game.

Another thing Devs need to get through their thick skulls is a traded game was bought new at one point, you SOLD a copy be happy with that.

[JeffGUNZ]

I agree with both of you, but that used game takes away from a new copy being sold. I support used games, gaming has gotten costlier and they really have not expanded the experience to justify the price hikes. Also, used games at a low price can get someone who had little initial interest of their game at $60 to become a fan of the studio or series by buying the game for 20 bucks in a bargain bin. I think it has it's ups and downs.

[DragonKnight]

@JeffGUNZ: "but that used game takes away from a new copy being sold."

Not necessarily. It could be just as likely that no one wants the game anyway. In that scenario, a used game is no worse or better than copies just sitting in shelves. Besides, the games are sold to the retailers, not the consumers, and retailers typically place orders based on demand first, stock second.

[Ducky]

"Here's a Kooky thought, make the most fantastic game with great support and tons of re-playablity and people will never part with your fabulous game."

Isn't that exactly what Hines said? Or am I missing something?

[360ICE]

Yeah, just like Burnout Paradise. Great, massive game that got plenty of free DLC as well as paid DLC.

Oh, yeah. That was also all over the pre-played section...

Nope, we are pretty much gonna sell our games no matter what. We consumers sure are the worst.

[Boody-Bandit]

If the industry moves towards no rentals or used games? I will move away from gaming. I'm not hurting for cash but I am rather fond of my hard earned money and I'm very selective of games I purchase new. They have to have longevity and really appeal to me. Genre's like racing, shooters (online), fighting games. Other genre's like action platform or adventure games I usually rent or purchase used. Even most RPGs I rent.

If they move away from used and rentals than we will have no resale or trade in value. Most of my friends trade in or sell their games online once they know they wont play them anymore. It will hurt businesses (Game Fly, Best Buy, GameStop, Amazon <- all accept trade ins or rent games) and it will make the developers become complacent.

I don't know about my fellow gamers but I wont support a console that only supports new games. I have been gaming for nearly 4 decades (since gaming's inception). Yes, I'm an old fart but a dedicated one. I have 2 rooms in my home dedicated strictly to gaming. I would hate to see the industry move in this direction but I could always find other hobbies that offer me escapism in my free time.

I personally think the greed is out of control in this industry now. What happened to the art and creativity this industry use to be about? Now it's all about nickle and diming every last cent they can get from us. If you want us to purchase new than EARN that coin. Bethesda is the last company that should be speaking out. Their last few games were ALL so broken. Give me a break. Seriously.

[Oh_Yeah]

They didn't make one fantastic game with tons of support and replayability...they made 5. Fallout 3, New Vegas, Oblivion, Skyrim, Dishonored, and Rage were all great.. The elder scrolls and Fallout series were some of the best selling games this gen. Maybe your not a fan of western rpgs or maybe you played some of them on ps3 or maybe you don't realize that their open world rpgs are some of the biggest games ever made and on top of that run on low end hardware...no devs went as big or packed as much content into their games as Bethesda did this gen. Just some examples of support in Skyrim, fans asked for mounted horse and dragon combat, fans asked for ways to reset their perks, fans asked for kill cams on all weapons, and Bethesda delivered for free through patches. Other devs don't do that and if they do they'd charge you for it. And replayability? Skyrim and Fallout don't really end it keeps generating quests and you can play it over as a different class with different play styles, if your on pc add a ton of mods...There's no games that have more replayability then Elder scrolls and Fallout.

[Snookies12]

Oh snap! Got them good!

[Blackhawk3]

Ha yeah. On topic though. Used games shouldn't be a problem. There are certain games I have no plans to buy whether it be I didn't like a demo or just not a fan of the lat genre. However I see a decently priced used copy I will give it a shot, and occasionally will buy some DLC if I'm pleasantly surprised. If the used option wasn't there, I'm not magically going to be enticed to buy it new all of a sudden. Make your games right and I won't part with it... Simple solution.

[TongkatAli]

I wish there was a burn option for + bubbles : D

[ApolloTheBoss]

Indeed. Let's apply Burn Heal to the effected area.

[Tonester925]

If games were made correctly many gamers wouldn't trade the games in. They would cherish them. Release a crappy game and I'm going to try to get something else

[solidjun5]

:D
I agree with thits! +1

[DragonKnight]

No they aren't. Stop making stuff up Bethesda (and other developers). Used games were at one point new. You don't get additional funds from people keeping their discs (no guarantee that they'll buy DLC or pay for microtransactions), and you sell copies to retailers not consumers. Stop this B.S. about used games hurting you when you know it's a load of crock spewed forth to justify greedy practices against the used games market.

[Ducky]

... but retailers have no reason to order more copies if they're getting a stream of used copies to sell.

That's why it is advantageous to have people who bought the game hold on to their copy instead of trading it in. As long as they keep it, there are less games on the used rack, forcing the retailer to get more.

I thought the guy's view was pretty balanced. He recognizes the issue player face, and I can see his point of view as well. Retailers make a chock full of cash from used games, and naturally, developers/publisher are going to be upset that they're not getting a cut.
If their counter attack is to make better games, rather than ream the consumers even further, then I don't see anything wrong with that.

[DragonKnight]

And again I say that used games still aren't a problem. There's no guarantee that people will come buying the new game to begin with leaving unsold copies on the shelf. What would be the anti-consumer practice to deal with that? Developers are blowing the issue of used games up far too much and making it seem akin to piracy and theft.

[MikeMyers]

Perhaps if they made fewer games but better ones people would likely hold onto them longer. Gamestop makes most of their money from the used market so obviously that's a lot of money exchanging hands that these publishers/developers don't get to see.

It's not an easy fix like the article mentions. Eventually all games will be bought online and the used market won't be as much of an issue because those games will be tied to your account.

For now they just have to give consumers a product they feel justifies the $60 price tag. DLC is another tool they will keep using to keep gamers interested and not sell it.

[MikeMyers]

If Bethesda is making stuff up then why does Sony have online passes in all of their internal games now?

[DragonKnight]

Hahahahaha. You're funny. You love to bring up off topic stuff because I blocked your annoying self. Good for you.

**EDIT** Why is it off-topic? Well for one, it's not about Sony so your fanboyism is showing. Two, you're bringing up a discussion we had over PM which isn't relevant to the topic. Three, you obviously looked for my comment to continue the discussion and again that's off topic. So have fun going off topic fanboy.

[MikeMyers]

Yet you keep ignoring the question. How is it off-topic? Sony, like EA, like Bethesda and many others are trying to off-set losses brought on by the used market.

It's amazing to see someone deflect so much because of their inability to ever criticize Sony.

[MikeMyers]

So instead of actually answering you decide to keep attacking? Very mature.

"Why is it off-topic? Well for one, it's not about Sony so your fanboyism is showing."

My fanboyism is showing? How can someone have fanboyism for pointing out something you're so afraid of admitting? Wouldn't someone who keeps dodging and deflecting be the one who is the fanboy? You also said Bethesda (and other developers). Sony has development teams.

"Two, you're bringing up a discussion we had over PM which isn't relevant to the topic. Three, you obviously looked for my comment to continue the discussion and again that's off topic."

No I didn't. More deflection on your part. I simply scrolled through the topics like I normally do and read some of the replies and noticed how you completely ignore your savior, Sony, not ever being mentioned when they too are using methods like online passes to offset the used market. This topic is only a few hours old. Get over yourself. I'm not replying to something you wrote days ago, this is a current topic you happen to be in. You've also replied to me multiple times in previous topics when I wasn't even talking to you. So enough of the defelections. It's totally on-topic and if anything your little hiss-fit is not only immature but 100% off-topic.

[MestreRothN4G]

Prevent me from reselling your game and I'll prevent myself from buying it.

This has already put me away from DC Universe Online, which I really was interested into, and I know it will do it again. So, publishers, tell me again about how you never see money for used games?

The opposite is the truth. Many players buy games day-one (expensive for a lot of people/countries) only because they know they will be able to resell it.

Remove the possibility of reselling the game and you'll sell less.

So, yes, these companies profit with the used games market. And yes, again, they obviously know about it, but since is so easy to milk money from these consumers, why wouldn't they?

[Trevonn]

About DC universe:
http://uk.webuy.com/product...
At least in the UK. Besides it can be downloaded for free. So it's a bad example

[MestreRothN4G]

Check your facts.

You are actually proving my point. The game was such a fail that it became free to play. L A T E R.

In the beginning, you couldn't trade the game. Obviously it was never mentioned before the release date.

[RockerLestat]

DC Universe Online is an MMO. How many MMO's have consumers been able to trade in in the past? You couldn't trade in Final Fantasy XI on Xbox 360 or PC. You can't trade in World of Warcraft or Guild Wars 2. If this was a single player game I could see your argument here, but I am not seeing a relevant point with this.

[Qrphe]

Geeze, Bethesda is concerned because people decide to sell off what's rightfully theirs? Geeze

[Excalibur]

@JeffGUNZ, I agree that a Used game could replace the sale of a new game but not everyone can afford to buy every new game that comes out, Like you said Devs should be happy that used game could bring them a new customer for their future or even past titles AND that used copy couldsell more DLC for them.

[cyguration]

You can't use the mod tools on consoles and you can't get used versions of the game for PC, so wtf is Hines talking about?

The things that expanded the life of Skyrim was for PC only and the DLC was fragmented (at best) so PS3 gamers got a bum deal for a couple of months.

Not to mention used game sales have hit an all time LOW. He seems to have forgotten to mention that digital distribution is cannibalizing used game sales.

Just sounds like some guy talking out of the side of his head.

[wishingW3L]

you know when will this not be a concern? When they finally block used games but game sales stay the same or maybe even drop much more. I mean, COD sells 20 millions every year without even blocking used games sales or piracy... That should tell you something.

The reason some games sell a lot and other don't is simple. It's because they are too expensive so people prefer to pay full price for what they know they will like. In this case, COD... $60 for one game is way too much money and games don't even have half the budget of a movie like Transformers. Yet a blu-ray is $30-40 at most and at theater like $10-15.

[jukins]

^^^^typical ignorant gamers who think they actually understand how it works. . .

[DragonKnight]

^^^^ typical random apologiser who actually has no clue but wants to seem smart.

[ALLWRONG]

^^^^ typical hating on Bethesda because they gave more Xbox love.

[Avernus]

I keep some of my games due to how much I loved playing the game, or to simply add to my collection. But Skyrim for example, I'm just trying to summon the motivation up to get the Platinum, and then sell it.

POOR support, and inferior PS3 version of the game. Why don't I have the right to sell it? And why must someone buy this game new, when they can save themselves some money... sadly it won't save them the same agony I got.

[ps3_pwns]

even if people trade in there games they use that cash to buy your new game. maybe stop releasing dlc that was already made later for 30 bucks and people would keep the games if the dlc was free lol.

[belac09]

im so sick of these dev's, they are getting more and more greedy. its a trip watching the transition for as long as i have, im 36 and have been playing games since i was 10 or 11, and it has just become more and more ridiculous, greed is going to destroy the gaming industry.

[delboy]

I'm tired of the second hand crap talk.
Make the next TES game always online/block used game and see how it goes.

[fOrlOnhOpe57]

Is buying and/or selling a used game any different to doing the same with a car, a house or anything for that matter?
Once I complete a transaction for ownership, then said item belongs to ME.

[DOMination-]

Id have thought used copies were good. Its another customer to makemoney from for dlc and Bethesda normally create content that people will buy. Yeah they make no money off the game itself but thats the same in all secondhand markets.. From furniture, antiques, clocks to cds and films.

[aLucidMind]

While I honestly look down on those who buy a game used rather than new when said game is made by a developer that individual trusts or sees as dependable with making quality games, I agree and disagree here.

Anyone who says that someone buying a used game vs a new one doesn't cut into a developer's earnings is fooling themselves and simply doesn't have any idea what they're talking about. I believe a small percentage of what used games are sold by Best Buy and Gamestop is rightfully the developers', but only 20% at the extreme highest. But developers need to focus on releasing quality stories and gameplay that lend replayability rather than focusing on finding ways to get the used game industry to shut down.

A true gamer, ie a person who WANTS to support the industry, would also conscientious enough to recognize that never buying new games can hurt the industry they love and would buy new to support developers that prove that they DESERVE that profit by making quality games when said developer proves they deserve it.

Anyone who actually has a full grasp of the situation would basically go "not in my case. I bought [enter game] and loved it enough to give you my money rather than Gamestop", not blindly go "used games in no way can hurt the industry" or "used games are a bane of the industry" as both extremes are bad for the industry in different ways.

[landog]

used games are going the way of the dodo

see any used movie stores, cd's, books

sure, there may be a few

but digital, new only is coming, after a few years into ps4/nextbox, there will be no working used games available, they will allow it for the first year or so, just to get you purchasing the new console.....then...they will take it away

and it won't really be that big of a deal...it sucks in a way yes, i just got like 10 games at gamestop for my ps3 for like $3 a piece, resistance 2 was amoung them...$3 is a nice price to pay for a game i really enjoyed...

but....devs gotta eat and used games re-sellers are parasites (namely gamestop)....they are the modern day pawnshops....look at gamestop selling their crusty ass refurb systems, iphones, kindles....lol...they create nothing....they just take others ideas, buy them from consumers for HORRIBLY cheap prices then price gouge the shit out of people to buy them back

Raskolnikov would like a word with you gamestop

[aLucidMind]

They only will when the form of the media changes. Once a type of media goes digital, the secondary market in terms of retail shops die out and have to adapt into primary retail stores or die.

Part of the reason Gamestop gouges is because there are so many people trying to sell their crap that they won't have to give anyone much. Basic supply and demand; too much supply creates a drop in the item's value, especially if there isn't much demand for it. And there isn't much demand beyond Gamestop; when Gamestop buys it, the role is reversed. The demand is high but the supply is more limited due to distribution. Is it fair? No. Do I like it? No. But it is a basic business practice.

If half the people who sell their used games stopped it, the trade-in value will climb a bit higher eventually. It's all explained in even high school economics classes.

[Soldierone]

It's only a concern because they see GameStop rack in millions of dollars from used titles and don't share it with the publishers. If publishers were getting a piece of the pie, their greedy faces would shut up.

Yet they ignore the benefits of them ALL the time.

-Used titles means someone just got money to buy your new game.
-Someone buying a used title more than likely will buy the DLC (unless you are stupid enough to block it behind an "online pass")
-Used titles keep GameStop afloat. No Gamestop means no store dedicated to selling your products. Ever try to buy a game at Wal-mart, its a pain in the arse.

And these developers pretend like they support their titles forever. Yeah right, we are lucky a game gets support longer than the initial month. After that its crap DLC just to waste money on, and broken messes that get worse. God forbid the publisher releases a new game at any point, because at that point all the old titles are worthless to them.

[Ben12]

You know what? enough with the used game crap. Used games are great. Not everyone can afford the new stuff. People have been selling used cars for years and I don't here any bitching from dealerships. If you devs don't like it tough. Not everyone is driving bmw and lexus like you guys. And im sure as hell all you devs trade in your used bmws for new ones, so I don't want to here it.
let the less fortunate have a chance to play games to, and stop crying the blues. Go buy a Ford if you want to save your money and leave the gamers alone. Just get back to making good games. We all still buy your new games if there good anyway so stop it with all this greediness. damn im pissed with you devs.

[Ben12]

"HERES AN IDEA DEVS"
LOWER THE PRICE OF YOUR GAMES AND I WONT HAVE TO TRADE THEM IN TO AFFORD YOUR NEW GAME. WOW NOW THAT MAKES SENSE. 70 BUCKS A GAME MIGHT SEEM LIKE A TANK OF GAS FOR YOU DEVS, BUT FOR US ITS ALOT MORE. "STOOOOP THIIIS CRAAAAP"

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !

[Pro_TactX]

I have been playing video games for 25 years now and I can tell you that the price of games has remained consistent the entire time. New games were about $30 back in the 80's, which is the equivalent of $60 today.

[BitbyDeath]

I thought devs wanted their games to be treated like art?
Well only one person buys art but then hangs it up for all to see.

Devs should just be happy their games are being played/seen.
Obviously a purchase would have already occurred.

[Enigma_2099]

Didn't I already say something about this?

http://n4g.com/user/blogpos...

Oh yeah... I did.

[RuleofOne343]

You give me longer games replay ability value ,DLC FOR MP & SP + some Micro-trans . then I will keep my games from all outlets that offer cash for them.

[Grimhammer00]

I like how devs/pubs think that since I bought a used game that I'd also have bought it new.

Except I didn't.

And the biggest F U is ebgames/GameStop ....if your buying used from these guys your only saving $5! On new releases. So just pay the $5 and support the devs.

If your getting a decent savings then, great! Buy used. If its good then buy the online pass/dlc.
If the community is dead....it must've been average to bad and the devs/pub should expect that'd your glad you saved on it!

If you try and choke us with DRM always online...I'll just buy whatever competitor/dev/pub not forcing that agenda.

If I'm desperate for your ips ....the uncharteds, halos and cods....I'll buy those and nothing else. Leaving your 3rd party devs to wonder how sales got sooooo low, as many gamers stick to only same repeated ips.

Eventually the industry becomes 3-5 devs making the same games. We get less and less innovation and fatigue grows critical.

New video game crash occurs.

Thee end.

(Or something like this. Lol)

[Upbeat]

I buy Pre owned games because developers make enough money as it is, plus look at all the shops such game stop etc etc that will struggle and end up closing down leading to more unemployment..

[IIC0mPLeXII]

Jesus Christ Bethesda shut the fuck up. Especially after the Skyrim DLC PS3 failure.

[dcbronco]

I'm sure used games are a problem for developers. They may miss a few sales if people couldn't trade in games. But they would sell a few more because people will still want to play those games. Those that claim they buy used to save money are just lazy shoppers. New copies are usually available of every game and no used games would just force people to shop a little more. The week or two and you wait to find a used copy could be used waiting for the sales that happen the week of or after the launch of a new title.

@ witwicky343

As expenses go up you are going to have to give up something. Shorter games, no MP, less innovation or more money. This issue will come to a head. One way or another. People said they wouldn't pay $60 and now it's an afterthought. Keep selling, avoiding because you heard some ridiculous reason, buying used, fighting DD and demanding more and we will see the price go up to $70. And like crack people will pay. It will become the norm.

Businesses know this will happen from every other price hike in history. Look at movie tickets. People griped with each price hike. Now they're $15 and making record box-office numbers. All of the talk is just lemming speak. When CoD comes out at $70 people will complain and then word of mouth will spread about it being great and people will cave. The same will happen with no used games.

[mydyingparadiselost]

I'll buy games new when the DLC gets included with the purchase instead of being charged another 30 bucks for a season pass. Let people who buy used pay for the DLC. Problem solved in a non greedy fashion!

[Reborn]

Hm, when the shady practices of publishers, and some devs, are removed. Then you might see more money. How?

Well, you got this thing going where devs are claiming to release a multiplat game, and don't even bother to research the platform to ensure content can run? Then make piss poor excuses to justify when things hit the fan? Yes, Bethesda, thats you.

You have DLC which is just a 100kb code. No clue why on earth people would pay for a little code, which is clearly indicating that content is on the disc, just simply hidden.

Money makes even the best people, delusional. Stop thinking you should be given so much cash, when you half ass work 9/10 times.

[mochachino]

I bet there are a lot of used PS3 Skyrim games out there.

[strigoi814]

Hahaha bethesda really??? i wont resell or trade your buggy game if you just made it perfect..

if i where bethesda i would be more concern of my reputation from the gamers, than used games..