Nvidia gave AMD the PS4 because console margins are terrible

Nvidia’s original Xbox win was a sizable windfall for the company in 2002-2003 and the GPU designs of the Xbox 360 and PS3 (built by AMD and Nvidia respectively) were topics of intense discussion when those consoles were new and exciting.

Given these upsides, it might seem odd that Nvidia apparently walked away from the negotiating table with Sony on the PS4.

[snipermk0]

blah blah blah.. and nVidia cured cancer. Anything else that is new?

[Hitman0769]

yeah I see what snipermk0 is trying to say. instead of standing by their product they feel the need to generate sympathy out of some sort of quasi-moto awareness scheme that is now using articles and idealogy like the ones behind this to basically tell us "Hey just cuz we aren't in PS4 we are still pretty friggin stand up guys you know". This isn't the 50's, we don't need that much personalisation to companies and it just seems silly.

[GiggMan]

When you look at a console the average person has no idea what's in it. I have a gaming laptop (Asus G74sx) that has the ASUS logo on it along with the NVIDIA, Intel, and Windows logos. There is no brand recognition on consoles besides what MS, Sony, or Nintendo put on them. If you have a good quality product and partner with someone why not put a "powered by Nvdia" logo on the box or something like that? I think that's a point Nvdia is trying to make and it's valid.

Sure they may make money in the long run but imagine the advertising they can get off say 50million consoles sold each gen.

[kayoss]

@GiggMan
The problem with this is that most of the parts in these cant be bought by consumers. Example, the AMD that SOny and Microsoft are using is custom built for the console. There is no way Sony and Microsoft will allow AMD to sell this "Custom" part to consumers.

[cayleee]

Its funny how people are making a big deal out of Nvidia not getting console business.

1. Making console chips hardly provides any profit.

2. Consoles inevitably eat into PC sales share. It would take many more console sales to equal the profit from a single PC graphics card sold. Hence Nvidia or AMD for that matter would always want more PC graphics cards sold.

3. Consoles tend to stagnate the industry. Since games are designed with consoles in mind, it means they are designed for old hardware. Hence even PC gamers can play games with relatively old hardware, as can be seen with this gen even a 6 year old 8800gtx can still play games. This never used to happen before. However thanks to consoles stagnating the industry it is causing Nvidia and AMD lost sales as the industry isnt progressing. Nvidia sees this, yet AMD doesnt.

4. Console sales arent too much to begin with. Even today there about about 70million PS3s sold after 6 whole years. That means 10 million chips per year. That isnt a monsterous amount of busuiness for a company like AMD or Nvidia.

Bottom line Nvidia has finally gotten it that supporting consoles just means compromising PC GPU sales as consoles inevitably slow down game graphics power requirement, thus causing a slow down in the PC industry. The slow down doesnt just effect PC GPUs sold, it also effects CPUs, Motherboards, RAM etc As things dont need to be upgraded as often.

AMD is just being dumb by supporting consoles for a small benefit. They will pay the price in a PC market slow down where they will see less and less of their consumer upgrading and like i said in the beginning it takes far more consoles chip sales to cover up profit lost on PC hardware sold.

Hence in the long run its not beneficial for any of these companies to support consoles.

[GiggMan]

@Kayoss. I get that and agree with you but advertisement is advertisement.

Take a game like the logo quiz games on smartphones and show the Nvidia logo to the average person to see if they get it right. Imagine if the AMD or Nvidia brand was printed on the console somewhere and consumers go into a store to purchase a new computer. They see the logo and can associate it with their PS or Xbox in or a good (or bad) way.

Sometimes that's all it takes is association. I'm sure Nvdia or AMD is really not noticed on a mainstream level and something like this would put their name out there.

[one2thr]

@ Gig

Well if you read the box that the PS3 comes in, it shows you and tells you what's in the system...

Well at least the box that my "phat" ps3 came shows/tells me

[gaffyh]

The truth is, the Sony and MS are going with AMD next generation for a few reasons:

1. Their chips are smaller in terms of die size, and also produce less heat and require less energy to run. This means the heatsink, and the PSU that Sony and MS have to make can be smaller, making the console itself smaller, meaning it is cheaper to make as there are less components, plastics etc.

2. AMD have the ability to offer CPU and GPU on the same chip because they own two businesses that do this, at a much cheaper and more efficient cost that nVidia.

Simple fact of the matter is, nVidia cards, whilst very powerful, are not very efficient and would require a lot of power, and generate more heat. This would increase console failures, which is the another reason that MS and Sony are not going with them.

[dedicatedtogamers]

*looks at this article
*remembers Pachter saying "MS will bash Sony"
*remembers that MS has done that since MS-DOS

Methinks that the NextBox will be using an Nvidia graphics chip. I called it right here.

And you bet your butt that when MS reveals their next console hardware, 75% of their bragging will be about some newfangled, awesome, incredibly powerful, exclusive-to-NextBox Nvidia chip that is ONLY on NextBox (when in reality it's a 2-year-old Nvidia chip with a bit more RAM).

Maybe I'm wrong, but since Microsoft is likely going to try their hand (again) at merging mid-range PC gaming with their proprietary console market (attempted it with Games for Windows Live), partnering with the biggest PC card manufacturer may play a role in that.

[papashango]

@gaffy

If we're talking about the processing chip you need to be comparing AMD to Intel and not graphics only.

AMD chips compared to Intel do not run cooler nor are they faster. They are in fact much slower. AMD I'm not sure if you're aware makes both graphics and CPU processors. Nvidia only has out at this point in time their Tesla line which is a mobile chip.

Intel Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge processors already have the ability to process graphics and are much much quicker than AMD offerings.

[Dark_king]

@dedicatedtogamers nope MS wants nothing to do with them.they don't wont to drop the price of the gpu as it ages.This is the main reason for both Ms and Sony to stop using them.

[kreate]

@caylee

Ur comment was a interesting read.

However one point I disagree with is that (if im perceiving ur point correctly), is that u seem to imply that AMD doesnt see that supporting consoles equals lower sales on the pc components side.

I dont think that is true.
AMD is going into consoles so they can expand and sell more. They are doing this becuz the pc market is already stagnating.

Most ppl across the globe already have a pc. Its hard to sell ppl new pc w new hardware from Amd/nvidia cuz the general pc users dont care. The necessity to upgrade the gpu has declined amongst consumers.

Consoles are not the main variable To blame. Its actually smartphones/tablets/netbooks that are eating into that section of the market. Not consoles.

Microsoft is struggling becuz consumers are not buying windows 8. It is reported that pc sales have a drastic decline on a global scale. But its not becuz consoles are stagnating the pc market. Its becuz pc market is already over-saturated.

[AKS]

I can't help but wonder if some of these comments making generalizations about AMD's CPUs are based on any actual facts. They were struggling a bit, but their latest CPUs have been performing quite well, especially the FX-8350. It was very competitive with Intel's CPUs.

http://i.imgur.com/0nIkCAb....

I personally went with an Intel/ Nvidia CPU/GPU combo in my PC, but AMD makes some very nice processors and cards. You don't have to hate any of these companies' competitors to like the other one.

Anyway, what gave AMD a big advantage as a player in both the high end CPU and GPU markets in getting all these console contracts is being able to put a solid CPU and CPU together on one die. It makes a lot of sense for all parties involved. They want to keep the price affordable and heat produced as low as possible.

[gaffyh]

@papashango - I'm aware that AMD also make CPUs which is why I mentioned that they can make combined CPU/GPU chips much better than nVidia currently. I'm not saying that nVidia is crap, they do make the best PC graphics cards, and Intel make the most efficient processors right now, but the AMD option is easier and most likely cheaper than going the Intel+nVidia route.

It might not be as efficient as Intel chips, but it is cheaper because of it. And it might not be as powerful as an nVidia card, but it produces less heat and sucks less power because of this.

[chaos-lockheart]

Nintendo do have it, gamecube had the ATI logo so did the Wii. Nvidia just jealous, Sony said Nvidia were too expensive, and didn't want to use them when they were negotiating.

[ChrisW]

cayleee,

Go somewhere else with your blasphemy!!!

People here at N4G hate hearing logic, truth, and common sense.

[miyamoto]

yet they came up with that Project shield...oh the bitter irony!

[Anarki]

Hell no! I don't want millions of $ I'd rather give our rivals more money!

[R6ex]

Guess Project Denver is not ready.

[pixelsword]

This smells like valve, and what I meam by that is that when they couldn't immediately wrap their heads around programming for the cell they trashed the ps3, even though they didn't make a single game this gen that was as sophisticated as many games that came out on the ps3. Between the PC and the 360, they were squarely in microsoft's corner, even though they are a great company and didn't have to say any thing because their proudcts are loved, and did business with sony in the future. Now Nvidia's doing the same thing which suggests that they have something in the works with MS or Valve, but more likely valve because valve likely realizes that it needs to step-up or they may crash and burn in the future. The "winner" of this coming gen will likely buy-out the last one or two. (Nintendo was purchased by atari in the past before freeing themselves somehow ).

[Donnieboi]

Nvidia is B.U.T.T.H.U.R.T.

[Leviathan]

Actually, MS and Sony are BUTTHURT by Nvidia.

Nvidia royally screwed over both MS AND Sony. Microsoft got screwed when they assumed the price of the graphics chip would drop over time in the first XBOX.It didn't. Nvidia then MILKED MS because they had no chip pricing reduction over the product life.

Sony got hurt by Nvidia when they asked them to build a xenos style processor for the ps3,(a shader model 4.0 type GPU). Nvidia said they cant do it before the launch of the ps3 and then gave sony an old GPU. Almost INSTANTLY after sony ordered those old gpu's, Nvidia released the G80 processor which is exactly what Sony wanted. Nvidia intentionally gimped the ps3's graphics card by selling them an inferior product at current market prices.

And that kiddies is why Nvidia won't be in any consoles for the time being.

[Kingnichendrix]

Ohh those Jimmies that have been rustled

[tachy0n]

epic sheep are epic,

keep in mind the PS3 GPU is made by nvidia and you have games like "the last of us" and games look better than x360 thanks to them in some part

also, the PS3 didnt suffered too much GPU overheat problems like the X360 had at launch, why? because the GPU is made by Nvidia.

stop being so sheep people, you only give a bad image to N4G.com

[kayoss]

Hey can you say Baaaa!!!! no one is denying that nvidia is a good company for GPU and other components, but what we do question is why are they bashing the PS4? Sony did come to Nvidia for parts but both didnt come to agreement so they parted ways. But why do they feel the need to bash it? Good luck spending hundreds on a Nvidia graphic card to play one game.

[Dark_Overlord]

"also, the PS3 didnt suffered too much GPU overheat problems like the X360 had at launch, why? because the GPU is made by Nvidia. "

The PS3 had a much more well designed cooling system, MS crammed too much in the wrong places resulting in restricted air flow.

However, I just thought I'd point out, the main cause of YLOD in the PS3 was due to the lead free solder that they'd started using (something to do with green taxes), now lead free solder melts at a lower temperature than leaded solder. Although the PS3 never reached the required temp to turn the solder to a full liquid state, it did produce enough heat to weaken it from its fully solid state, couple this with the rapid cooling of the solder when the console was switched off, which in turn contributed to the solder 'cracking'. That's why re-flowing works so well, it melts the solder back into one whole lump.

So while the PS3 didn't suffer from overheating issues, heat was the cause of the solders problems. MS also used lead free solder in the 360. So both companies are at fault for not realising lead free solder melted at a lower temp :)

[3-4-5]

It's known that Nvidia GPU's run hotter than AMD's for the most part. Especially ones that aren't top of the line.

[Captain Tuttle]

You're right about the lead-free solder but it was because the EU banned it
http://www.ihs.com/news/200...

The PS3 had a cooling system that was significantly more robust than the 360's. The PS3 was also a good deal larger to accommodate that cooling system.

[Mkai28]

I will tell you this, if it wasn't for the cell processors taking some of the load off the RSX GPU the graphics wouldn't have looked that good. Overheating would have possibly happened more. Remember the 360 has the better GPU, in which most of the work load was from the GPU alone. The PS3 was suppose to be a "360 with an cell processor." So don't make it like Nvidia was the only reason why games like Last Of Us exist. Have a nice day..

[papashango]

@kayoss look around bro. Just about every Sony fanboy is saying Nvidia is not a good company.

[kenshiro100]

Stop making up nonsense. No one ever said it wasn't a good company.

[PurpHerbison]

But I love sheeple!

[feels]

the cure for cancer already exists but obama is holding it back and not releasing it to the public because there's more money in treating people than curing them

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

They may cure cancer way before sony could. Big ass super computers use nVidia. Just sayin.

AMD needs all the business they can get.
http://arstechnica.com/busi...
They are going down hill so this is good for them.

[Derekvinyard13]

Lmao imagine if they do cure cancer somehow

[negative]

omg you people are such little girls when it comes to this stuff.

get out more!!!!

[Godz Kastro]

I usually dont write lol's but this comment deserved one... Bubble for u...haha

[sonic989]

its already cured but the authorities wont allow it to go public
for nvidia well they are jealous of AMD's success
they could have acted like IBM pure class but i guess they are still a small company compared to those giants

[NameRemoved0017]

@kayoss the PS4 chip will have a PC version that is very similar in 2014.

[2v1]

Well considering NVIDIA hasn't seen the AMD/Sony APU they are just talking out of their asses trying to save a little face with stockholders.

This whole statement was designed to set stockholders at ease. I am sure someone asked the top brass at NVIDIA "why didn't any NV GPU's appear in the next gen consoles."

Is NVIDIA supposed to be honest and say -- "well we do not have the capabilities to produce a CPU/GPU hybrid like AMD."

No they are going to polish a terd and say exactly what they did

[Psn800]

Well if Nvidia walked away from the consoles why are they keeping on about the same subject all the time .

[TemplarDante]

Nvidia does so much talking about consoles lately, do they realise how fast the pc market is shrinking?
The pc new sales have dropped 7% already from Q1 last year.
Their niche GPU days are almost over.

www.maximumpc.com/article/new s/idc_pc_shipments_declining_fa ster_anticipated2013

[IcicleTrepan]

They are also on mobiles and tablets with the TEGRA chipset.

[TheHergulaX]

You made my day, not even kidding, I needed to read something like this to get myself going today.

God bless u.

[moodgamer]

And now they are crying abouyt it. Lol.

[Irishguy95]

No they aren't...sony fanboys are making them out to cry about it. When Nvidia only stated why they didn't take up sony's offer. Nvidia said it exactly the way it is. Nothing more. Fanboys just take it offensive when 'the best' GPU developer simply confirms Ps4 as a Mid range PC.

Sony couldn't afford Nvidia = "Nvidia are greedy"....said the Sony fanboy

Also, Nvidia are being asked why they didn't take up to offer, don't try and say they are coming out to whine about it...they are simply answering questions.

Gripple down there, 720 isn't getting mentioned because MS hasn't announced it yet. You think Nvidia are going to give away information from MS? That's called leaking. Whether or not Nvidia joined up with them is not confirmed, but the rumors which are likely accurate suggest they went with AMD too.

Edit- Saryk there is nothing at all negative about Sony or the Ps4 in my post. Again, as usual...im talking about Fanboys. Some people even see 'mid range gaming PC' as some type of offense, when a Mid tier is perfectly acceptable for next gen, because it is still very powerful. Mid range is the most common choice for PC gamers because it provides power for decent cost. 560 - 660 - 760 and Amd's gpus are almost always nearly on par with Nvidia when it comes to mid range cost effective GPU's these days

Again Dragonknight, they wouldn't be talking about it if they didn't keep getting questions asked about it in interviews. THey aren't just coming out making public statements for any reason, they are only answering questions.

Also...So what if it ses "Nvidia the way it's meant to be played" at the start? What does that have to do with anything? Is that the only thing you can come up with regarding your outlandish statement that Nvidia...a hardware company with the best support for their GPU's and gaming...have somehow " because it just seems as if they're straying from the focus on games". I mean what are you talking about? It's not up to Nvidia on who make games. They are just a hardware company.

Microsoft CAN afford Nvidia, but we all know Microsoft want maximized profits instead of a powerful system, Sony have had it bad these last couple of years, it's understandable if they don't want to go with Nvidia due to cost, MS have no excuse.

[Saryk]

Irishguy Saying anything bad or slightly negative here about Sony, is like talking trash about Jesus in a Baptist church. But you are correct, regardless!

[DragonKnight]

Irishguy95: They are crying about it. They haven't shut up about it since it happened. They are definitely upset (probably butthurt) because if they weren't they wouldn't have to keep talking about it. Microsoft is rumoured to be going with AMD as well, what excuse do you have for that? Microsoft can afford nVidia but all signs point to them choosing AMD so nVidia says "consoles aren't profitable enough for us."

Their entire stance is riddled with damage control.

[Snookies12]

Nvidia is not the "best" GPU developer out there. If they are, it's a REALLY close call with AMD in terms of tech. They used to be king, but now I go with AMD in my gaming PC because it just seems as if they're straying from the focus on games. Back in the day, you couldn't start a PC game with it saying "Nvidia, the way it's meant to be played." Now you never see that.

It all comes down to choice and opinion however. Just as any piece of tech does.

[jukins]

i really havent seen the fanboys arguing over amd vs nvidia but it does seem nvidia, even though its probably out of context, is a bit miffed at not getting the into the console market. regardless of how low the margins are chances are they arent gonna sell 50+ million of any other single graphics chip.

[DA_SHREDDER]

Well that's what they get for even suggesting to put a crappy gpu in the ps3. Yes, Sony should have never developed the cell, way to expensive, and instead, should have concentrated their efforts to just building a machine that ran great. Bluray, standard HDD, blutooth, and easy game development should have been the focus.

But instead, I feel Nvidia had their own agenda. How they thought that selling Sony a crappy GPU would warrant them another round in the next gen. Honestly I feel like it was deliberate considering the 360 was out for a year already. The bottleneck was there from the get go.

So ya, Sony is gonna treat Nvidia like a ex wife that cheated on them, throw the beotch to the curb, and find a company like AMD who appreciates Sony's business. Also, Sony have actually learned from past experiences and are nurturing their business model.

The ps3 was a humbling experience. I'm glad that they got rid of that hoe Nvidia. Tell Nvidia to try to sabotage someone elses careers. Like their own. I'm glad that AMD is gonna beable to put their quality products in the next gen machines. They are of high quality at a fraction of the cost. Nvidia are the gold diggin whores in gaming. You made your bed now lay in it

[Az1mov]

Very true, I see few games nowadays starting with "nVidia the way it's meant to be played"

[Upbeat]

man sony could afford anything, SONY could buy nvidia over if they wanted.

[Army_of_Darkness]

I think the reason why people are thinking Nvidia are complaining and whiny babies is because everything that they have recently commented on involves the PS4 in which they have nothing to do with.

[MysticStrummer]

Their recent statements sure make them look like they're crying about it. They seem like the person who got dumped from a relationship, talking trash about their ex and his or her new mate. They don't sound like the one who did the dumping by walking away.

[Why o why]

why do you hate on sony fans so much. nvidia sure seem to be talking a lot since the news... zero of three is not good. If they didnt say negative things nobody would be questioning everything they've said thereafter and who isnt about maximising profits... nvidia just priced themselves out

[kenshiro100]

Give me a break.

You can't even criticize Microsoft either so what's your point exactly?

A pot calling a kettle black...seriously...

[ginsunuva]

I don't see the crying. Dumb@ss.

The media keeps interviewing them about it, it's not them speaking out of nowhere.

[sandman224]

Nvidia sounds like there upset that Sony went with the better deal. If the wanted Sony they should of gave them a better deal.

[stuna1]

That's it in a nutshell!

[a_squirrel]

People might not realize that since the major consoles are going with AMD, the developers are going to do the most work on AMD Grapics Cards, optimizing them the best, whether you're on PC or not.

Nvidia lost business in more than one way.

[OpenGL]

There is some truth to the statement, Nvidia is in a better financial position than AMD so they are less likely to take a deal like this.

At the same time, Nvidia cannot offer a package like the APU used in the PS4 so even if Nvidia was willing to design portions of the console at a cheaper rate, someone else would need to design the CPU so it would be less cost effective for Sony.

[kevnb]

nvidia has been making arm processors, they seem to be doing fine with them. Many different android devices are using them.

[MasterCornholio]

Didnt you get the memo?

Sony wanted the PS4 to be based off an x86 architecture not ARM.

The point behind the PS4 is to make the hardware as similar to PCs as possible that way PC developers wont have any issues porting their games over.

[OpenGL]

ARM Cortex A15s if clocked high enough could be a suitable alternative to the Jaguar cores used in the PS4 APU, but they would still need to be paired with an Nvidia GPU that more closely resembles what they have in their laptop/mid range desktop lineup, Tegra 4 would not cut it.

Simply put, the PS4 APU more closely resembles what AMD was already working on for desktops and laptops. Nvidia would have to start from scratch designing an ARM SoC for a console.

[kopicha]

and you fail to realize that it does not perform as well as you thought so. take a good look at the mobile market and you will see most top end mobile devices have ditch Tegra

[GiggMan]

I think both parties felt that it may not be worth it.

[Typical-Guy]

Gotta love how they act... Well, if you didn't care about the console market why are you crying! I used to respect Nvidia but now they're acting like bitter brats....

[GribbleGrunger]

Didn't they also give AMD the 720 too? I wonder why the 720 isn't getting mentioned in all these articles?

[Ezz2013]

MS is too poor for them too lol

let's face it they are crying that no console will support them

[SuperKiing]

'MS is too poor for them too lol'
Both Ms and Sony could easily afford Nvidia development, but they would have to transfer cost the development onto the consumer. Why should Sony and Ms pay a premium price to satisfy a greedy company, while discouraging consumers.

[green]

Maybe because they were never apprached by Microsoft? Just a taught.

[EffectO]

Yep.
Apparently Sony was flip-flopping between Nvidia,AMD,Cell 2.0 and even Intel(Larrabee).MS on the other hand always had just one architecture in mind.

[Godchild1020]

I think it because the Next Xbox hasn't been officially announced yet, nor have the specs of the console. For all we know they could have went with Nvidia again and not AMD as the rumors suggest.

[kevnb]

nvidia is just upset that people think the ps4 is so much more powerful than it is.

[Minato-Namikaze]

Not sure if trolling or stupid...... =_=

[Leviathan]

My thoughts exactly.

[papashango]

when it comes to console fanboys discussing pc hardware.

just go with stupid.

[wishingW3L]

YET they are now making their own console with Project Shield or whatever....

[Rask]

Wow, Nvidia just can't stop crying ROFL

[Letros]

Not surprising, NVidia is in business to profit. AMD, at this point, is in business to survive.

[HelghastGeneral]

They say ps4 has a weak cpu and a weak gpu yet ps4 produces over two teraflops of compute power. They are just pissed because both Microsoft and Sony shut the door in their face. They gonna say the same thing about xbox or the next ipad actually they already said enough about the ipad when apple said it was twice as powerful as tegra processor haha.

They need to lose more revenue so intel can buy them out and use their gpu patents in their cpus.

[Leviathan]

I don't know why you're getting disagrees. This is all true.If Nvidia gets to set up Intels new CEO, then this is a done deal.

[OpenGL]

Theoretical single-precision floating point operation numbers are meaningless, those "two teraflops" are all from the GPU and AMD's current most powerful desktop card claims 4.3 teraflops of performance, another exaggerated and meaningless number.

[Adolph Fitler]

Of course Nvidia are peeved. Of course Sony weren't gonna pay high prices for a part that they will be buying 100's of millions of.

They aren't just answering questions here, they are spitting fire....otherwise they would simply answer, "well, unfortunately we couldn't come to any arrangement with Sony, so maybe we can come to an arrangement with PS5, or PSVita 2".

Just a very meticulous & clean statement about press that contains no acid in the words, or the like.
Nvidia's "answer" to this question seems unprofessional, nasty & bitter towards Sony, & consoles in general.

You see, Sony has designed & manufactured all types or hardware (including there joint design & development of the Cell Chip), so, I'm sure Sony are pretty aware of the costs of these things, & seeing they are going with pretty much, off the shelf tech, then it makes sense that Sony want to get these things for the lowest price possible, as they have to put 60,000 other parts in the damn thing, each of which costs moolah.

So, get over it Nvidia, & stop defending them Nvidia fanboys, as maybe next gen. Sony's PS5 will go with a Nvidia product.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

TrUe, console margins are terrible which is why majority of retailers hates them. They carry them because it brings traffic into there stores.

On Nvidia they are butthurt because Sony rejected them for the lower cost but very efficient AMD.

[josephayal]

In my opinion, the best video card maker right now is NVIDIA

[Leviathan]

Maybe the better of the two, but their business practice consist of lie, manipulate and take advantage at any cost. They don't play nice with console makers.

[Skynetone]

NVIDIA make great cards and im sure most graphic departments use them

but it will be interesting to see the new wave of games and see how they perform on a amd pc setup, vs a nvidia set up, ie a game designed with consoles in mind

[TheEnigma313]

No way; the Radeon HD 7000 series is amazing.

[Studio-YaMi]

Didn't know there were so many Nvidia fanboys on N4G .. lol ! or maybe they are the same PC fanboys that keep on declaring their superiority ?

Nvidia are such cry babies it's not even funny anymore ! =.=

[Gazondaily]

Right, so now anyone agreeing with Nvidia is a Nvidia fanboy.....smh....

[Studio-YaMi]

Ummm no,I actually DID state that "maybe they are the same PC fanboys that keep on declaring their superiority" and that's a hard fact,go into any PS4 article and you will see how much bashing and trolling PC fanboys are doing,then come back to me and "shake your head" as much as you want.

Besides,yea Nvidia are being a sore child about the PS4,all this so called "facts" weren't their when they attached their equipment onto the PS3,that's hypocrisy.

[Drekken]

Sony saved the consumer money with this deal... that's all.

I would really like for you to show me an AMD/ATI setup that can out perform an intel/nvidia setup. I've had them all and Nvidia is just easier to deal with as far as drivers go and my Intel chip is smoking fast.

I don't like the way they keep crying to the media about not being involved with the next gen consoles, but they weren't looking at the long haul I guess. IMO it hurts Nvidia in the long run not being included in over 150 million consoles. I don't see how that can ever be a loss.

[DigitalSmoke]

And yet another negative article from Nvidia's mouth.
Their acting like a jealouse girlfriend dumped after the first date.

[KillrateOmega]

Keep crying, Nvidia, keep crying...

Honestly, this is the feeling that I've been getting from Nvidia lately. They just keep on releasing statements like this trying to justify their reasoning. All of which sound kind of bitter. If you don't care, then just shut up about it already.

[GABRIEL1030]

PS4 NVIDIA = 599 USD
PS4 AMD = 399 USD

SONY wants a more cheaper launch console.

360 uses AMD and PS3 uses NVIDIA, in multiplatform games works better 360 and It's more cheap.

[claud3]

Give it a rest already

[hivycox]

just because NVIDIA made it clear that the PS4 won't be a super computer all you fanboys bash every NVIDIA related article..

This is some funny shit right here.

[FRAKISTAN]

I can't believe how butt hurt Nvidia is for not being chosen by Sony.

I won't be buying their stuff anymore

AMD for me

[ALLWRONG]

"I can't believe how butt hurt Nvidia is for not being chosen by Sony."

Same could be said about you Sony guys. Look up and down this comment section for proof of that.

[Lvl_up_gamer]

Uh it was Nvidia that turned down the offering from Sony.

Nvidia said that there wasn't much of a profit to be made with low end specs and that they would be losing out on other more current and future opportunities if they did go with Sony.

So you are way off. Sony had to choose AMD because Nvidia said NO they didn't want to be apart of the PS4.

[Clarence]

Wow so you sat down a the negotiations with both these companies? Tell me was Kaz Hirai there?

Sony didn't want to pay Nvidia. That's all it boils down to. Nvidia would have gladly taken Sonys money if Sony would have been willing to pay. Now since Sony didn't go with them, Nvidia is upset. We all know what happen when someone doesn't get their way... They throw a temper tantrum. Which is exactly what Nvidia is doing.

Don't worry they will compare KZ4, GT, and Uncharted to pc games, just like when they compare PS3 exclusives to PCs games.

I don't ever remember them doing that with Gears or Halo :)

[FRAKISTAN]

yeah thats what THEY said AFTER being Dumped.

like a girl says that i dumped the guy coz the relationship was not moving forward but in reality that guy had tapped that and moved on

Look at their statment after statment, such as Ps4 not being powerful enough,really!!

i bet their new upcoming gaming box or whatever is more powerful than the PS4....NOT!!

[iNFAMOUZ1]

So because nVIDIA didn't side with ps4 now nvidia is bad ??? hahaha typical sony fanboy thinking, so primitive, so naive, so traitor like.

nvidia has always been the leading graphics chip producer, with amd second.

hahaha this sony site just keeps getting funnier and funnier by the day man, I love it

[MuhammadJA]

Agreed. This site is filled with the worst sony fanboys you'll ever see. And not the normal fanboys, the delusional ones.

[Campy da Camper]

You should have been here in 2008-2009. My inbox was full of death threats because I was pro Sony. I had to change me account 3 times! It was xbot nirvana in here. Anyone remember Green Ring of Life?

[kenshiro100]

...I didn't see anyone saying that nvidia was bad. You're so wrapped up in an imaginary console war that you don't even know what you're talking about.

[DEATHSTROKE-cro-]

"so primitive, so naive, so traitor like"
what the hell XD

"So because nVIDIA didn't side with ps4 now nvidia is bad"
who said that ? can't you read ?

there's every few days an article on n4g where your dear nVIDIA cries because sony didn't want to pay them more.

we have seen PS4 games and they look great.
so yeah, troll more haha

[Tapani]

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the pressure of shareholders ;)

[ziggurcat]

riiiiiight, nvidia... just keep telling yourself that.

@ iNFAMOUZ1:

no, nvidia isn't bad, but they're acting a little too butthurt over this not using nvidia for the PS4 thing.

[chukamachine]

I don't think Nvidia are better then AMD and vice versa.

I have an amd gpu, intel processor and Kingston ram.

I went for each part due to price/performance.

Nvidia's gpu in the PS3 isn't the reason for the better looking exclusives on PS3 then 360, it's the cell that done most of the hard work.

But it seems like Nvidia have an axe to grind, shield will fail so hard, will be worse then pspgo. They should stop now before release.

Titan will need to come down to $499 for good sales, $1000 for a gpu is just rofl.

[GraveLord]

Well does it matter if you have your tech in all 3 next gen consoles? AMD won and Nvidia lost. No other way to look at it.

[Clarence]

Gave is a strong word. Sony decided to go with another company that gave them a better price.

[ShiftyLookingCow]

So to put it simply only AMD wants consoles to succeed. They have bet almost everything on them.

Glad PS4 doesn't have Tegra chip at its heart. That thing is extremely over-hyped by Nvidia.

[feels]

nvidia is just mad cuz their gpus dont have super 8gb gddr5 extreme ram

[Bladesfist]

Thank god for that. It would be a waste of good money.

[Kran]

Am I missing something here?

What's the actual reason why most people here seem to be hating on nVidia here?

Because they have rubbish GPU's or the fact they didn't partner with the PS4? Anyone else as confused as me?

[Sephiroushin]

I don't know maybe because Nvidia doesn't shut up lately?
I don't know about you but when I don't truly care about something I don't keep talking about the same thing over and over, you know speak up and move on.

[Kran]

Prior to any PS4 news, they were hardly noticed.

Post-PS4, everything they said they got hated for. And now they try to explain themselves and they're still hated.

That's how I see it, whether I'm wrong or not.

[SolidSystem]

They arnt wrong. AMD is hurting really bad. any business is good for them right now. That being said, the margins for AMD probably do suck for console chips...but thats AMDs problem/business.

[dcbronco]

AMD may be hurting now, but they are making moves that will eventually put them in the drivers seat. If the people running Nvidia were smart they would have tried to get every console contract. Low margins are still margins and instead of putting the last nail in AMDs coffin they gave them a chance. Now the margins are apparently enough to bring AMD to profitability after losing for some time.

Now the developers are using other peoples GPUs on mobile devices and AMD and everything else but PCs, and Nvidia are giving up a huge share of the PC space too, Nvidia is painting themselves into a corner. They have to hit huge with Tegra 4 or they will be the ones struggling as AMD moves forward. And as APUs reach the mobile space, AMD might be in position to take over that space too.

[LordHiggens]

I really hope they make a comeback too, AMD is a good company. They provide solid products at a great value.

[SolidSystem]

Maybe, AMD is loosing lots of talent. I have seen the lay-offs myself and the talent at AMD are looking for other jobs simply because job security doesn't exist.

I want AMD to do well, they kept intel honest and gave people competition in the marketplace. However I am counting on AMD probably going through a radical re-birth or just killing over in the next 5 years.

We will see how AMD looks after their restructure is over.

[dcbronco]

AMD will be fine. Most people only believe in the status quo. That's why they are shocked when a GM goes out of business. AMD will dominate the tablet market in the next year or two and that is the fastest growing market. Owning tablets and the consoles will put them in position to make the move to phones and go go back to pushing desktop tech. Buy your AMD stock while it's low.

[stuntman_mike]

I love how the title of the article implies Nvidia lording the PS4 to AMD:

Nvidia "You there, the AMD pleb, i grant you the PS4 as i don't see any profit margins in it" AMD " Thank you oh great one...(Arsehole)"

[swansong]

My question is,WHO CARES?

[Kran]

Some Sony fans of course.

[fsfsxii]

Why do you love Nvidia so much?? its not like you have some stock in the company or something.

[Cryptcuzz]

Nvidia arguably makes the best video cards in the market but at a cost. AMD is no slouch either and have cards comparable to that of the best Nvidia can offer but at a cheaper cost.

Main reason why I have been going with Nvidia for my video cards is the fact that AMD has had bad support for their drivers, (maybe used to) but I am starting to sway a little on my thought of future video cards and going with AMD.

It sounds like Nvidia is doing damage control, but is doing more damage to their image then anything else.

It seems to me they are starting to show where their future focus would be and that is in mobile devices.

They are basically saying; It doesn't make sense to strike a deal and have our GPUs in the PS4 because we won't be making as much money as we want (billions in revenue within the PS4 life span) because we are focusing all our resources in producing chips for mobile devices and their own project shield.

Maybe Nvidia does not need the console business as much as AMD, but I would be careful if I was Nvidia. Just look at past history of TV and video game consoles as an example of how consumers are willing to pay premium for marginal differences in performance.

[smashcrashbash]

I am still not sure why they or anyone else is going on about it. Nvida walked away and they had their reasons. SO WHAT? Someone had to take the deal and someone wouldn't.Why is it they and other people keep crying on and on about the reason why they walked away? I am sure Nvidia and AMD both have pros and cons with their products so I am not sure why Nvidia keeps harping on about why they didn't take it.It does sound like they are butthurt because if they didn't care then they wouldn't keep on about it. But Sony probably rejected their offer and now they are playing 'fox and the grapes'

[EffectO]

nVidia vs Sony fans,round 3

FIGHT!!!

[GABRIEL1030]

"Sony and Microsoft wanted to avoid the bloodbath that occurred in 2005-2006. Both companies took three-digit losses on a per-unit basis. Sony’s losses were worse than Microsoft’s, despite the PS3′s higher price tag ($499 and $599 as compared to the Xbox 360′s $299 and $399)."

Thanks Nvidia for reject the deal :)

[arbitor365]

Nvidia have been a bunch of crybabies lately. what is their problem?

they seem pretty bitter, that sony chose AMD over them

[LoveSpuds]

Ultimately no matter what Nvidia's real reasons are for not coming to an agreement with Sony I think the way Nvidia have behaved is extremely undignified and unprofessional.

I think whoever is in charge of their PR department needs firing and the get someone in to clean this whole spectacle up - its quite pathetic!

[unicron7]

Quoting a great post from Leviathan:

"Nvidia royally screwed over both MS AND Sony. Microsoft got screwed when they assumed the price of the graphics chip would drop over time in the first XBOX.It didn't. Nvidia then MILKED MS because they had no chip pricing reduction over the product life.

Sony got hurt by Nvidia when they asked them to build a xenos style processor for the ps3,(a shader model 4.0 type GPU). Nvidia said they cant do it before the launch of the ps3 and then gave sony an old GPU. Almost INSTANTLY after sony ordered those old gpu's, Nvidia released the G80 processor which is exactly what Sony wanted. Nvidia intentionally gimped the ps3's graphics card by selling them an inferior product at current market prices.

And that kiddies is why Nvidia won't be in any consoles for the time being."

Great post man. Nvidia are assholes. Simple as that. No wonder next gen console makers don't want anything to do with them. AMD is the way to go.

[LordHiggens]

I only use AMD products in my computer rig...why? Nvidia are assholes.

[Drummerdude41]

I'm losing some respect for nvidia. Any market where your technology can be embraced is a chance for innovation and pushing your tech onto new heights. If you stop trying to push forward you stagnant your ingenious and i would hate to see that start to happen to a company who i have loved for the past 10 years.

[Jihaad_cpt]

Jees yes Nvidia can focus on PC but we all know less people are buying PC's and Nvidia can't just be giving business to the competitor.

[EditorAtGNG]

I am happy for AMD. Nvidia is way too big as it is and this will help boost AMD and strengthen the competition on the market.

[girlwithturn]

Oh boy, another cr@p PR-article from nvidia. Lets wait for the new box announce and look for their reaction. If its not - ms and nvidia has partnership together and we have another crap-pr war versus sony.

[tonywood]

I don't care who provides the graphics...long as the ps4 delivers.

[taiwanesebrothaz]

how hard is it to not realize that amd pretty much said "okay we'll take $10" whilst nvidia said "no way, $10 for my tech? $15 or no go" sony of course took the cheaper one and im not surprised microsoft went with amd.

would u buy a similar product for $15 ? or $10?
answer is obvious

nvidias response is understandable as well... if sony wanted them to spend so much time and r&d to develop for the ps4 yet the money isn't good, why bother? time and resources are better spent else where.

move on. this topic is dead.

[Vickistheman]

Someone please hand nVidia a box of tissues.

[NateCole]

They gave the business away to AMD?. I didn't know they are in business to not make money and be a charity.

Odd.

[KontryBoy706]

suuuuuuuuuuuuuure they did. And the sky is magenta

[SOULJER]

Nvidia damn man we get it. AMD took your cookies. Handle it already. Get that good cry out, and move on. Don't become a stalker. Act like your on a bus stop, and you miss the bus. It's all good 1 bus leaves another 1 comes. Heads up.

[blakstarz]

Nvidia just mad because Sony didn't choose them for their next-gen console, of course they are going to say negative things.

[FAT MAN GO BOOM]

DAMAGE CONTROL DAMAGE CONTROL ..... PLEASE STOCKS STAY UP STAY UP.... NO FALL NO FALL......

[PS4FEVER]

How stupid they are and their sheep making excuses for them. People are going to buy consoles regardless of what chip is in there. Nvidia just lost a potential 80 to 150 million consoles with their product in it, billions of dollars could have been made, on top of the pc business. I'm curious as to how many graphics cards they sell each year, considering how low pc game sales are compared to consoles.

[Rageanitus]

It's funny how all of a sudden we see how so many praise AMD, and all of a sudden some hate built against Nvidia.

Did we all forgot how Nvidia helped drive PC gaming for SOOOO many years, yet even with their slightly higher marked up products they still lived up to our expectations.

Sorry to say this but in terms of horsepower for gaming it has been the combination of Intel Processors with Nvidia GPU's that help drive PC games for quite a few years now. It is really AMD playing catch up. Just look at the track record of AMD ever since they bought ATI.

But then again Console only fanboys do not see the whole picture.

I am a PC and console gamer, but I the market is not just in consoles!

[PS4FEVER]

It's because Nvidia are acting buthurt and talking down consoles all of a sudden simply ebcause their deals with next gen consoles didn't work out.

[MyFeetHurt]

that's okay, most console gamers thing nVidia is a cassette tape format from the 80's.

[tarbis]

The butthurt is strong in this one.

[busytoad]

HaHa nvidia. Cry more Nvidia we all swim in your tears :)

[OneAboveAll]

nvidia cards blow ass anyways.

[IIJOSEPHXII]

nVidia knows they have a customer base who will pay top dollar to feel elitist - increasing their profit margins.

Console manufacturers are doing deals to put top quality gaming in the hands of many and not the few.

[TemplarDante]

Hey Nvidia, you attitude against PS4 lately sickens me.
Read this, Nvidia :)

www.maximumpc.com/article/new s/idc_pc_shipments_declining_fa ster_anticipated2013

[kornbeaner]

For a company that doesn't seem to care about next-gen consoles Nvidia is certainly doing a lot of talking about it. I don't think this is directly pointed at Sony, but Sony was the only company in which providing a chip would have been possible. AMD (back then ATi) has been providing chips for Nintendo since the Gamecube, last gen it was Nintendo and Microsoft, Nvidia only had Sony in bed with it last-gen and to top it off it didn't even provide them with a great chip even for that timeframe. It was pretty much a standard GT 7800 chip that Nvidia provided Sony, that was a high-med range chip at best.

Nvidia teamed up with Sony for one sole purpose, to get rid of their overhead and Sony in the desperate position they were in, took that offer. Now that Sony had a not so great campaign with the PS3, looked for ways to make their machine more dev friendly (which has been a problem since the PS2). What better way to do that then to team up with a chip-manufacture who is also supplying the chips for your competitors?

Because in the end regardless of what customize processed is used by AMD, it is still an AMD chip within the Wii U, New Xbox and PS4, so now it's up to the Console Manufactures to up the ante on how the machine is built. Ram, HDD, Drives, Services, Etc. For a developer this makes their jobs easier, because porting over a multi-plat game will now have the same basic instructions and now the Developers have all the power to make the changes it may want to a game based more on System memory and other feature that one console may or may not have over the other consoles.

Business is not always about making it out rich, but if the margin on the Console chip business is a positive one, which I can only imagine it is, isn't it worth it? I mean you are guaranteed money coming in for as long as the console generation last. AMD has been in Financial trouble for a long, long time and they are still around, I am going to assume it has been because they have always had a cash-flow coming from Nintendo and Microsoft even during the worst of times, that has been money they could count on.

Maybe Nvidia is so super rich they don't need that money, but I think AMD has shown how important a constant incoming moneyflow can be, not only did they last all of last gen with impending money issues, but they were able to last and expand their business to the current ongoing/starting-up console gen.

[Reefskye]

Where in the article does Nvidia say anything? all i see is a bunch of people saying Nvidia are crying when in fact there is jack shit anything in the article from anyone at Nvidia.. Wow cry some more your PS4 wont have an Nvidia card inside it? I have playstation and a gaming PC. I've owned ATI/AMD cards before and been burnt many times. Nvidia are the biggest GPU manufacturer for a reason.

They update their drivers for specific games, they take feed back from all the PC devs that work with Nvidia cards, Planetside 2 had its SLI performance boosted by nvidias own driver developers, AMD has no where near the same driver support. As we speak Nvidia are going ahead and making their drivers better for games that wont ever been seen on a console example ARMA 3.

It doesn't really matter what card the new consoles will have inside them.. they wont make that big of a difference anyway a console is a console.