Adam Sessler's Anti-Mysogynist Review of GoW: Ascension

Editor-in-Chief of Rev3Games is under fire for accusing God of War: ascension of misogyny.

[chrispseuphoria]

"Surprisingly or not surprisingly, depending how much faith you have in the video games industry, a defensive mob or gamers, more concerned with facing any censorship or accountability for the medium they hold so dear, chose to go on a moronic campaign against the journalist and his completely valid critque."

What campaign? Some more explanation and sources are needed.

[NewMonday]

"What campaign? Some more explanation and sources are needed"

apparently a couple of forum post are now the equivalent of the "swift boat" brouhaha

[SilentNegotiator]

But a couple of "journalists" crying about a trophy name....totally not a petty "mob" /s

These goombas are still on the high of praising Tomb Raider as supposedly progressive because they traded her short-shorts in for constant heavy breathing.

[pixelsword]

Okay, they changed the crux of the article, so...

WTF, no.

'Nuff said.

OT (more so)

Why is Sessler concerned with that when one of his own made an article titled "boats and hoes" when they talked about a woman being in Assassin's Creed? Is that not also Misogynistic?

Also, where was his outrage when GTA Awarded players for killing Haitians?

And if you support the banning of either, why then do you even care to call gaming "art" when developers consistently change it to assuage their fans?

[jadenkorri]

so what, its a trophy and it makes you laugh. Its not as if he smashed the face in of a innocent woman, it was a harpy, and i believe she's going to try killing kratos. Some people have a bug up their ass and try to make sure that everyone else around them have the same bug. Misery loves company.

[DonteDemonSlayer]

It's a shame when I really liked Adam when he was working at XPLAY. After he left and joined another company where he could have much more freedom he started to say the most ridiculous of things. I can't believe he is jumping on the "Feminist" bandwagon. I guess in God of War 3 when you brutally punch the flesh clean off of a boss, or rip another boss's head from his body and use it was completely okay. But have him do so to a woman, and have a witty trophy to go with it is completely OVER THE RINE. Props to Santa Monica, unless they end up publicly "apologizing" because of SONY worrying about bad press.

[knowyourstuff]

Who cares about "Bros before Ho's" as a trophy name. It isn't Misogyny, it's showing where your values lie. Who do you respect more, some dumb hoe, or your best friends? Exactly. Girls have the same expression, chicks before dicks. It's the same expression of values in reverse, and it isn't sexist. It doesn't hate based on gender, it is just an expression indicating what you value more, and quite frankly, it should be true for anyone with a decent moral compass.

[ReservoirDog316]

@ pixel

What he's arguing is Kratos and God of War have always been on a male power trip because it fits in with the mythology of the times in the game. It's always being realistic with issues with how they were treated at the time, a la Django Unchained. More or less anyways. Women weren't viewed as much during those days.

But this trophy is different. This wasn't Kratos saying it, it was a 4th wall breaking moment were the developers were saying it. Kratos and other in game characters being sexist? It's fine honestly because they're in ancient greek times. But the developers being sexist? That's not fine because they're in the present day world. A character in Django Unchained being racist? That's ok because it's realistic. The actors in it being racist off camera? Not ok.

See the difference? Characters in the game world (like from GoW, GTA, ect) have the artistic license to say whatever they want because it's make believe and if done well, it usually makes a point to us who watch/read/experience it. But a 4th wall breaking aside directly from the developers is something much different.

[chrispseuphoria]

Just checked the article and it has been fixed! Approved!

[LostDjinn]

So a pivotal point they based this "news"/opinion piece/crap on has been altered (after it was pointed out to be false). Now that's quality "journalism".

Am I wrong to expect more of the "gaming press" than to bastardize (or invent/lie about) everything they touch in an attempt to garner traffic?

Edit: I know, I know. It's me. I'm doing it wrong.

[MestreRothN4G]

Djinn, we ruin everything in the industry. 'We' being the gamer community.

The fact that this article was toned down is the industry equivalent to Dead Island becoming easier through a much asked for patch... By the same 'community' that later complaint that horror is gone.

The softening and lack of freedom to creativity is just a reflex of our manifest desires spoken often through forums, but mostly through our wallets.

[admiralvic]

@ LostDjinn

I never got all this "game journalism" hate, since anyone can be a game journalist. The only requirements are for a site to hire you for whatever reason, have an outlet with enough views to "matter" or simply start your own site. Additionally, some people need to think about some things rationally.

Sites make money via Ad's, sponsors, influence... something, which is typically dependent on views. For newer sites they need views to BUILD these things, but ultimately everyone is looking for views.
Now most sites won't turn down a stupid article or even a tired article, since they will get views. Thats why ____ console is dead talk almost always pays off.

So if you want to see stronger articles from sites, simply ignore trashy articles and focus on quality news / researched work / editorials. I've read a few, plenty that were a little rough / had some weak points, but AT LEAST they were making an honest attempt at bringing good things to the table.

[GribbleGrunger]

Whilst I didn't agree with ALL of Sessler's review, I did agree with him on that particular point. It WAS a pretty stupid thing to do and it DOES (in the context of the game) come over as misogynistic. Like Sesslers himself said, it was acceptable, 'just', but as soon as that Trophy pops up it devalues any meaningful internal conversations you may have had during that scene.

I just wonder how many of those people who disagree with me or are upset that Sessler said this actually fully understand where he's coming from. It's an intellectual stance from an articulate and intelligent thinker. You may think it has no place in video games, but he's just giving this industry the respect it deserves by critiquing it as he would any other media.

This is a fantasy and the head stomping made Sesslers wince but he considered the context and was ok with it. But then 'Bros Before Hos' popped up and destroyed any integrity the narrative gave that scene.

Step back, take a breath and think. You still might no agree but at least you've taken the time to consider what he's talking about here.

[HarryMasonHerpderp]

I get what you're saying but the thing is if it was the other way around then no one would give a s***
I can't imagine a women playing this, getting that trophy and being offended by it though anyway. I could be wrong though.

[GribbleGrunger]

Now that I can agree with. But that still doesn't make the interpretation of the scene wrong. What we should deal with is what we have at the time we have it, not relative to an assumed proposition. We just need to be aware of the hypocrisy and remind people of that ... if indeed it does appear at some point in the future but in reverse.

@LightofDarkness:

'To further the context, imagine if you were playing GTA and brutally murdered a black character. You wouldn't have thought much of it generally (gangland crime being what it is) but then a trophy pops up and says "white power".'

Absolutely PERFECT my friend. (bubble)

Now people, step back, take a breath and think.

[LightofDarkness]

HarryMason: that's because mysandry is really not that big of a deal right now (and rarely has it been). Men don't generally have to put up with it even close to the extent that women have to deal with misogyny on a daily basis.

To further the context, imagine if you were playing GTA and brutally murdered a black character. You wouldn't have thought much of it generally (gangland crime being what it is) but then a trophy pops up and says "white power". Would you not think that somehow completely invalidates the actions as justified by the narrative? It simply soils any artistic merit by linking it to a reprehensible ideology.

[TheRealSpy]

articulate, intelligent thinkers are not welcome on n4g.

[jer1122]

I mean you get trophy for having sex with hookers in gta then you can shoot them in the face ...Also GOW things aren't really women it's a God damn creature.. Everyone gets so butthurt over everything now a days...

[Simon_Brezhnev]

I wonder if you know what that phrase even means.

[HarryMasonHerpderp]

"To further the context, imagine if you were playing GTA and brutally murdered a black character. You wouldn't have thought much of it generally (gangland crime being what it is) but then a trophy pops up and says "white power"

I see that being a lot worse than "bros before hoes" but maybe I shouldn't?
I think one of the fury's is supposed to be seductive and is actually a "hoe" so I think that's why you get the trophy after finishing her off I don't think it's aimed at women in general. I think it's a misunderstanding to be honest I can't imagine there being any malice in it. I'm not saying that it's right though.

[Ju]

Hypocrisis at it's finest. The "thinkers" here do not have an issue with "just a regular" murder, but putting a label on it offends you. Go figure.

[GribbleGrunger]

Everything is contextual. If it's not then it's gratuitous. It might seem pedantic to many people but to others it's the difference between ignorance and understanding. Surely striving for clarity must include examining ideas outside or even beyond your every day remits? Wisdom is understanding you can 'think' something but 'know' nothing.

[Blacktric]

" It's an intellectual stance from an articulate and intelligent thinker."

"I just wonder how many of those people who disagree with me or are upset that Sessler said this actually fully understand where he's coming from."

dat not so subtle "I agree with someone who I call intelligent which should also make me one... ON THE INTERNET!"

And apparently logic and intelligence does not go together considering he literally listed a name of the trophy as a big con.

Also I'll admit. I chuckled when I read that bs and pandering filled wall of text.

[Omni-Tool]

It's a tasteless, off color joke. Nothing more, Nothing less...

BTW, tasteless, off color jokes are usually the best.

Now lets say we were given a choice over how to handle a situation. I'll use a classic. You come to a door, what do you do? Your choices: knock, kick it in, check if it's locked then pick it/kick it in, walk away

If you choose any variation of "kick it in" you get a pop up trophy titled "Neanderthal" Why? because you were too stupid to think of a better choice? Seems a little reverse here but would anyone care? No... I would actually chuckle and keep on playing. Why? Because I know my own intelligence and worth and I don't need a game or someone over the internet to validate that. To nit pick over someones sense of humor is trivial and actually makes you more shallow than the person telling the joke. Especially if you truly believe that "that" is the way that person really is... Sheesh! Get out of your parents basement and actually venture out into the world instead of feeding into this mindless BS of a joke you call "morals". It's all BS and it's bad for ya. Lighten up...

My final point, NO ONE gives a S***!!!!!!!

[joab777]

Was it a woman or a demon hybrid with breasts? Doesnt anyone see the difference? Its like comparing a bad man who beats his wife to a guy who defends himself against some evil attrocity. There is nothing in real life to compare it to but lets say its a female school shooter and some guy gets ahold of her and beats the living hell out of her for being evil. Does that make him a mysoginist? Oh yeah, and its a video game about a guy whose family was murdered and goes on a bloddy rampage against mythical creatures. Maybe video games are having a serious affect on us because we r having a hard time distinguishing entertainment from reality. Lets focus our attention on real evil like the guy who murdered his wife while his 10 yr old daughter called 911.

[GribbleGrunger]

You're missing the point of what Sessler is saying. It's about context. 'Bros before Hos' isn't something you regularly hear in Greek mythology now is it. That was his point. He accepted the scene in the context of the story but that trophy immediately changed that context and brought it into the 21st century. I'm still going to buy the game and I'm still going to enjoy it, but he IS right. They should never have called it that. The fact that we're actually discussing it proves that once and for all.

[DragonKnight]

I wrote a blog about this very thing, and I'm sorry to say that, about this issue, no one knows what misogyny is. That word has been grossly misused and no one using it is actually thinking.

"Bros before Hos" is not misogynistic. It is not a portrayal of a profound hatred or distrust of women. There are indications that the name of this trophy was chosen BY a woman, and regardless of that, the fact that people are incorrectly attributing hatred to this joke is just ridiculous.

"'To further the context, imagine if you were playing GTA and brutally murdered a black character. You wouldn't have thought much of it generally (gangland crime being what it is) but then a trophy pops up and says "white power"."

Yes, because a blatant racial slur as a trophy name is the same as a tongue in cheek joke using a term that's been around for ages with origins in gangster rap by the same people that would be upset by the white supremacist attitude that "white power" would imply. Your context is off. That's the problem with people, they use overexaggeration and poor descriptive language to equate a real and horrible tragedy with a political launching pad for people with low self-esteem or an agenda.

The argument that the trophy name somehow ruins the experience by making what was a normal event in the game and trivializing it with a joke of a trophy name is nitpicking. You can't call it sexist because it's not discriminatory, you can't call it misogynistic because it's not hatred. USE THE TERMS CORRECTLY!

Adam is wrong, plain and simple. To say that a trophy name can ruin the game is to admit you either A)Didn't care for the game right from the start and were looking for a reason to justify that, or B)Really need to look at yourself and your priorities if you can be offended by something so small in such a profound way that it ruins an entire game for you.

Honest to God, I swear people are actively searching for reasons to be offended, especially if it has a feminist agenda attached to it.

[Omni-Tool]

@GribbleGrunger

The fact that we are discussing it proves nothing of importance. What it does prove is some people really need to learn to take a joke.

It did not break the "context" of the game. So what if it broke the forth wall in the 21st century. Newsflash: ALL TROPHIES BREAK THE FORTH WALL IN THE 21st CENTURY! Regardless of trophy title. The argument is pointless.

When Psycho Mantis vibrated the controller and read other Konami game save files during Metal Gear Solid on Playstation, it broke the 4th wall. They received soo much hate for that because "it seemed out of context". Now, we look at that single moment as ingenious to adding another level of gameplay and pointing out the fact that we are just playing a game.

@DragonKnight

Do you do PR work? I could use someone like you. My methods are... How did my ex put it?... "Loud and abrasive" and "I tend to rub things the wrong way" ...not sure what she meant by the second one but you get the idea. Well said and thank you for your input.

[ZoyosJD]

@light of darkness

You seriously need to think about what these terms infer.

"White Power" and "Bros Before Hos" are not directly comparable as one represents one group having power over another directly linked to the ideaologies of slavery and lynching, while the other come from an ideaology that friendship matters more than sex.

"White Power" is an unacceptable term. "Bros Before Hos" is infering a choice, not murder and slavery. Something comparable to "White Power" would have to be an outright statment of hate to all women like "All Women Must Be Slaves or Die" as their is no phrase that holds the same meaning as "White Power".

The way you (and others) have to compare a joke about to a choice between genders to a f*cking massacre over hundreds of years to even try to make a point is disgraceful.

[DragonKnight]

@Omni-Tool: How much does it pay? LOL. I can be just as loud and abrasive actually. Ask cgoodno about our discussions here for proof on that. But I'm glad you could find some worth in what I posted though.

[feraldrgn]

Not sure why people don't understand.
It's simple really, in reality Sessler wouldn't harm a woman.
Many games have gender specific demons to kill, which we don't think twice about.

Sessler was immersed in the world, a convincing world & apparently killed a "Demon" woman in a violent way, but as soon as the trophy "Broes before hoes" popped up, it took him out of the fantasy.

It would matter if it was the other way around too, but that's not the point.
It's a badly named trophy, words mean just as much as images & as such it added a layer which he didn't feel comfortable with.

[Bimkoblerutso]

About nine tenths of the review was about the wealth of design and aesthetic issues he thought the game suffered from, and yet:

"Adam is wrong, plain and simple. To say that a trophy name can ruin the game is to admit you either A)Didn't care for the game right from the start and were looking for a reason to justify that, or B)Really need to look at yourself and your priorities if you can be offended by something so small in such a profound way that it ruins an entire game for you."

It was just a joke that he thought was fratty and distasteful...and it IS. It's stupid frat humor. Some people may get offended, but mostly it's the kind of humor that's just insulting for it's stupidity.

It's not even like he spent the whole review ranting about misogyny. That was about 30 seconds of a nine minute review detailing how he didn't care for the difficulty spikes, and the earthy color scheme, and the poor narrative, and the reworked combat and the troublesome camera angles and so on and so forth.

But no, I suppose you're all right. It was just his silly misinterpretation of an off-color joke that caused his bias.

[Dee_91]

@LightofDarkness
'To further the context, imagine if you were playing GTA and brutally murdered a black character. You wouldn't have thought much of it generally (gangland crime being what it is) but then a trophy pops up and says "white power".

No,not even close to being the same.
People are so sensitive and get offended by the dumbest stuff i swear.
I understand where sessler was coming from.He wasnt offended by the trophy resulting from the action but more confused so to speak because of the trophy being out of context

[rainslacker]

The phrase itself is a every day colloquialism, much like a majority of trophy titles are.

As to the trophy itself..here is the definition of misogynistic

reflecting or exhibiting hatred, dislike, mistrust, or mistreatment of women

From the description of the trophy I would say that yes, it is indeed misogynistic, because you have to mistreat a woman to get it. On the other hand, pretty much everyone is mistreated in GOW.

I didn't see anyone calling foul when you got the achievement "Spread 'em" in GOW2 for bending over the translators and bashing their heads repeatedly against the stones. That trophy has a definite sexual overtone to it, even more so than this one...but I guess since it's a guy it's OK.

[Ravenor]

I think it's a little sad that DragonKnight, summed up what Misogyny actually is and how this doesn't apply, but we're still here arguing over it. Or even worse, whether or not the trophy name offends your delicate sensibilities.

The game has a dark and violent tone to it, and if memory serves me right the trophies have always been named in this kind of fashion. I don't see why someone was surprised by this, coupled with the fact that your target in this situation isn't even HUMAN. If killing the Xenomorph Queen earned you a Trophy/Achievement called... Queen Bitch would that be "Misogyny" too? (Lazy example, but yeah)

[MariaHelFutura]

To be fair. During the time period Gow is set in, that is the way they thought about women....actually much much worse. The best thing about this thread though, is how many people have relayed stereotypes of black people trying to relate it to how it's comparable to women.

[jer1122]

The problem is you guys are taking it to seriously. It was a joke bros before hoes who hasn't said that. Plus it's not like he's stomping a real women it's a creature thing not even real. I guess it's okay if hes stomping another guy lol... I don't remember anyway complaining when we were bashing Hercules face in..God society is becoming pathetic when every little thing is offensive it's just so ridiculous..I heard and seen much worse things done to women or men in movies but I guess that's okay...

[NoPoint]

Yeah because the people complaining about that throphy are religious, gtfo. Quit blaming something you don't even believe it. People are the ones that are ignorant.

[JaredH]

The way I interpreted his complaint about the trophy is that it's just some dumb immature joke after you do something fairly serious. As a result, when he used to take the game's story as serious, and adult, he finds it hard to after. At the end of the review he asks, rhetorically, if the game is just for "bros".

I'm not saying I agree with him I'm just saying what I think he meant.

[xHeavYx]

They should patch the trophy and call it "Sessler's a sissy"

[Omar91]

lol agree

[showtimefolks]

adam sessler has an opinion and his opinion is just that an OPINION. he made a big issue of it and he was stuck on one part for 6hrs so maybe he just doesn't get GOW series

its a GOW game with Kratos we don't need review scores to tell us its another GOW game

[animegamingnerd]

while i can see why some people would have a problem with the existence of that trophy and most likely by next week will be some news about womens rights issues with the game it honestly doesn't look like it has any impact on the gameplay other then a small unimportant and stupid trophy that at the very end of the day does not matter

[Hufandpuf]

If there was a trophy that had a white guy killing a black guy in a gruesome way, I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was a part of the narrative. But if a trophy popped up and said "KKK" then I would have a BIG problem with it.

It's always a joke for people until it's about them. I say let's call it out now so in the future we won't look like idiots and try to explain how this came to happen.

[tetsuhana]

The slavery, subjugation, and murder of blacks in the US is not comparable to anything that has happened to women, so GFTO with that nonsense.

[DragonKnight]

"But if a trophy popped up and said "KKK" then I would have a BIG problem with it."

Why? Were you a slave? Do you know any living person who is a slave? See, the problem with your mentality is that it does more harm than good. People say they want racism abolished, then they say something like you just said. You know how you get rid of racism? By moving the f*ck on. Pea-brained morons make up the KKK. By being offended by them, you grant them power. Thus, it is a choice to allow racism to continue, because offense is a choice.

This is the same thing with the Bros before Hos trophy. It's not even on the same level as slavery, and yet people are equating it as that same kind of hate. People are looking for a reason to be offended by it even though there is literally nothing hateful about it. It's not discriminatory, it doesn't cause people to treat women differently, UNLESS YOU CHOOSE TO LET IT DO THAT!

[gintoki777]

It's only a problem because people keep bringing racism up. If you want to get rid of it stop talking about it.

[rainslacker]

@Dragon

His example would be offensive to me, simply because I find the very thought of slavery and racism to be horrendous. It may not be legal in most countries of the world, but it is legal in some parts of it. Even in places where it isn't legal there is still underground slavery, such as the sex trade market.

In this case race isn't the issue, but the thought that something so distasteful would be used in a way to be humorous when there are real issues that affect real people at this very moment.

Racism still exists, and ignoring it doesn't make it go away, it just allows it to foster in places outside the mainstream...such as the KKK. Ignoring it just allows people to remain ignorant on both sides of the fence.

I don't need to know a slave, or know someone who as been affected by it, or be of a race who has had it in their history to know that racism is bad, and should never be justified or ignored. We live in a society that has been effected by the tides of racism and slavery. Because of this, the thought of the KKK, or other similar unlikable things, is considered taboo, and for good reason.

All that being said, I agree the analogy is nowhere near appropriate.

[Ravenor]

@Hufandpuf

If you can't tell the difference between saying "Hey, sorry I'm going to hang out with my friends Bro's before Ho's" Is totally different from saying something derogatory about their nationality or ethnicity. You probably aren't fit to be debating this topic.

What you said is totally different, it must be hard living when you're so easily offended.

[TongkatAli]

Wow, kinda lost respect for Sessler, what a drama queen. Its rated M for a reason Sess.

[dirigiblebill]

I wasn't aware that an M-rating stood for "being a pointless sh*t to women".

[RTheRebel]

Well said sir

[eferreira]

Kratos would've done the same thing to a man.

[dirigiblebill]

@eferreira

It helps if you actually read the argument before responding to it. The trophy is the problem.

[nycgamer4ever]

You guys really need to take a chill pill and get out more. This pretty much prove this generation of gamers are a bunch of pansy who dont get out much. I dont know where everone is from but where I'm from there are women, and some are ladies and some are bitches and hos. Why must we put women on a pedestal and pretend like they are all ladies. Gtfo here with that crap. I know some that would take your lunch money and stab you in the neck.

Besides this is a video game and a M rated one. Plus its a joke! Jebus we have all seen and heard way worst in movies and the internet and real life so what is the fuss? I meanbin this same game and series you pretty much rip everyone and everything to pieces and have orgies with women and we ae complaining about the name of a TROPHY?!!!

[BanBrother]

I don't expect anyone to understand, well, at least not on the internet. He never gave it a lower score because of the trophy name, I am sure he is smarter than that.
What makes you different from the guy/girl next to you?
Imagine if the trophy was called "Bye bye KFC" when you killed a black guy, or "goodbye retard" to a disabled person?

What I am saying is, the trophy was out of line, for sure. Women in GOW games are usually sex objects, which is fine, but this just re-affirms what SSM think about them.

Again, enjoy the game, but respect Sessler's opinion. Just make sure the next time someone offends you you don't go crying and screaming. I am a male gamer btw, and open minded.

[TongkatAli]

Exaggerate much ? In old ancient times women weren't treated equal so it makes sense for them to be treated that way in the game.

LOL! Its just a game, fail more. People study God Of War like its real life. Also your KFC comment was disgusting even for an example, that was very low.

Nintendo fanboys are agreeing with Sessler, shocking!

Edit: LOL, you should watch bukkake videos from Japan, now that is degrading and real life.

[BanBrother]

I'm sorry, but the KFC thing, was not racist. I was using a stereotype, but not directing it at anyone in a hateful way.

You kids need to learn what racism is before you try to make me out as the bad guy. Fact is, also, TongatAli, you are unintelligent little boy. Yes,the women are used in context in the game, but couple that WITH the name of the trophy and it doesn't look that great on SSM.

Please people, re-educate yourselves, or just plain educate yourselves before replying to me. Disagree all you want, you are just proving the internet is full of little brats, or at least idiotic, ape-like humans. Cry more.

To GOW fans, enjoy the game. But please don't excuse questionable decisions by SSM or whoever thought up the name of the trophy.

[cleverusername]

Are you REALLY comparing centuries of racism to make believe violence?

[Ravenor]

@Cleverusername

He is, in an ultra hamfisted way.

@Banbrother

Your assertion that this trophy and the history of the games with sex confirms that SSM has some kind of issue with women, is just stupid. It's so mindbogglingly stupid I can't believe anyone would think such a stupid thing.

"Bro's before Ho's" isn't in the same league as "Bye Bye KFC" or "Goodbye Retard". That is such a poor comparison, and you are completely missing the point of those who disagree with the idea that the trophy name is something to be abhorred. You are well within your rights to find it in poor taste but to say it's a horrible offensive thing is wayyyy off base.

You say you're open minded, I really disagree.

[Skips]

Same here. He was WAAAAAAAAAAY overreacting. It was actually cringe worthy just watching him complain about that. lol

[Jadedz]

''Bye bye KFC''

Dang.

[TheRealSpy]

You lost "respect for Sessler" because he expressed a valid criticism?

lol, who's the drama queen?

[TongkatAli]

Learn how to read. I still respect the man.

Edit: @cleverusername EXACTLY! Drama queens, all of them.

[DragonKnight]

Explain how his criticism was valid.

In what way did "Bros before Hos" show a profound hatred and distrust towards women?

[Tr10wn]

I kinda get his point GoW was more than a M rated game, beating a women to death and then giving you a trophy with the name "Bro's before Ho's" is not mature at all its actually very immature.

[yewles1]

And thus grows the hypocrisies of feminists that get offended over comments and phrases in pure jest... IN AN OVERTLY ULTRA-VIOLENT AND GRAPHIC VIDEO GAME!!!

[Skips]

Agreed,

They'll whine and moan when a female enemy (She's not a even HUMAN, lol) gets her face stomped but when Kratos does the same to hundreds of male enemies seconds after. It's TOTALLY FINE.

Anyone know that game WET? A girl who slaughters nothing but MALE enemies trying to kill her by the hundreds. Where the hell was everyone when that game released? It'd be hilarious to see how feminists react to a game where a dude slaughters nothing but FEMALE enemies trying to kill him. lol

[Rainstorm81]

Or tomb raider.....Lara is man killing machine but that's fine...

[TheRealSpy]

What's wrong with your faaaaace?

[FunAndGun]

Mind your manners.

[rainslacker]

Is this feminist or the self-made white knights coming to protect women over a pretty common term that isn't inherently sexist in the first place.

Quite honestly, most of these types of things seem that it's the men bringing them to light in the name of justice, rather than women who are truly offended by it.

Sexism in the game industry and games is fairly apparent, and often documented, but pointing out a particular such as this does nothing to change what is mostly a boys club.

[gabbboolo]

The enemy in question is a Fury I.E. a female monster that tries to kill Kratos. Just what the hell does he want him to do to her. Also in God of War 3 Kratos snaps the neck of *spoiler* who is a woman, Sessler didn't bat an eye when that happened. Really shocked that he has affinity for a basically a half crab woman.

[godofboobees]

Rated m for mature......MATURE!!!

[TheRealSpy]

Sounds like the exact opposite of mature, to me.

[ps92117]

Mature=/=White Knight.

The game is rated mature the content consist of various offensive and obscene content, which requires a mature mind to understand that none of it reflects real world attitude toward society. If you don't like the game bitch and moan as much as you want, just as long as you understand that the developers have no obligation to bend to your standards.

[Kos-Mos]

Mature in usa is blood and nipples. Mature in Europe and Japan is Nietzsche and Jung.

[ps92117]

Really? So you are telling me that the reason games have rating in the EU or Japan is to prevent little kids from learning philosophy? Are Japanese and Europeans parents mentally retarded? Or is it some religious BS that makes European/Japanese not want to expose there children to Philosophy? Well regardless sounds stupid.

[Conzul]

White Knighting is uncharacteristic of Sess...
maybe his wife saw the ending and made him throw that in there :-P

I enjoy watching Sessler's videos. He's very intelligent and fun to listen to, but he's also too hard and unforgiving on games sometimes. Like any reviewer I only listen to what he said about the game, not the score he posted.

[firelogic]

That's my whole gripe against Sessler's comments. You get trophies for brutalizing male characters all the time in the series and I bet he laughed and loved it. But why does his view change when the victim is female? Not even a human female but a completely imaginary "being."

God of War 3 had a similar situation with one of Poseidon's princesses. You literally drag her naked self around, and eventually use her to prop open a gate that's much too heavy for her. She eventually gets ground up in the gears and a trophy pops, "I didn't do it, but I wish I did."

So where was Sessler then? He must have played it, if not reviewed it. The trophy is awarding you for turning a human female into mince meat and then saying, "I didn't actually kill her but I wish I was the one that ground her up into little chunks."

I'm done with this. I'm not commenting again here or anywhere else regarding this non-issue. There's no point in giving the drama queen any more attention than he's already gotten.

[Hufandpuf]

If I do recall I remember a video disccussion about that segment but I cannot remember 100% if he was in the discussion but I do recall his voice I think.

[Game0N]

@firelogic he actually gave gow3 a 5/5 so apparently that scene with poseidon's princess wasn't too bad for him which is insane. It may be worse since that woman was actually human!

[firelogic]

Really? hahah, I guess he's just in a white knight mode these days.

I straight up asked him in the Youtube comments and while he replied to people who were praising what he said, he's yet to respond to me.

Damn, I broke my "no more posting" rule already.

[Crillvirus81]

I agree with him the bad part was calling the trophy bros over hos right after smashing her face in

[firelogic]

He reviewed GoW3 and gave it a 5/5 and probably didn't mention the "I didn't do it, but i wish i did" trophy. So you're basically saying that "bros before hoes" after killing a monster is WORSE than "I didn't kill her but I wish I was the one that turned her into ground beef" after you shove a HUMAN female into a set of gears?

Alrighty.

[Y_5150]

Yeah that part in Gow3 was messed up. really I understand why Kratos did that. She was in his way to Zues, that's all.

[Ace_Pheonix]

What a terribly oversensitive world we live in. No one can take a joke any more. No one is able to say "bros over hoes" with a straight face, it's just stupid. You know, when Kratos rips peoples arms off, he's openly mocking amputees. *eye roll*

[cleverusername]

Rated M for Mamby pamby! He said it for hits! No game reviewer is THAT delicate!! If they ARE they're in the wrong job!!

[Kirnisorey]

Nobody said one thing when you get that trophy for killing a woman in red dead redemption. I believe it was 'dastardly' and you got it for killing some innocent woman. I hate double standards.

[DaGR8JIBRALTAR]

sessler's finally getting p***y now? maybe his girlfriend threatened to bounce if he didn't address it?

[Eazy-Eman]

The first of many more to come, I foresaw this yesterday :/

[Landquake]

The words "misogyny" and "misogynist" get thrown around an awful lot lately.

[clintagious650]

If your going to complain about this then u mightest will side with that news caster blaming video games for MURDERS. Its a freakin game, and the enemy he killed isnt even human lol. Its make believe. Heck kratos isnt even real haha.

[jer1122]

The problem is you guys are taking it to seriously. It was a joke bro before hoes who hasn't said that. Plus it's not like he's stomping a real women it's a creature thing not even real. I guess it's okay if hes stomping another guy lol... I don't remember anyway complaining when we were bashing Hercules face in..God society is becoming pathetic when every little thing is offensive it's just so ridiculous..I heard and seen much worse things done to women or men in movies but I guess that's okay...

[InTheLab]

He called GoW a bro-fest but this hypocrite LOVED Bulletstorm. He said he favored it over KZ3 when they launched the same day. He also says that the other bro-fest Gears 3 was as good as Uncharted 3.

I've been telling people about this dude for years. This isn't the first time he's gone off the rails about something silly like the name of a trophy.

He doesn't even have a problem with the actual violence, but the name of the trophy? How does that make any sense?

[jer1122]

This is the most truthful comment Ive seen on this thread...

[miyamoto]

thanks.

This really happens when a big Sony exclusive releases.
Not surprised at all but this has gone too far.

[isa_scout]

I think he's being just a touch ignorant. Kratos has killed several women in far worse ways than he killed the Fury. In GoW3 he made that innocent woman hold the lever and it crushed her into the damn floor. The trophy name bothered you? Seriously? If you can become that offended just by trophy name then you need to find another hobby. Kratos can kill hundreds of bad "guys" but if he kills a demon winged creature that resembles a female then it's sexist? Come on man, that sounds sexist. Why is it ok to kill men but not women? That's a sexist view. All is fair in love and war...PS. "Bros before Hoes"

[lovegames718]

I tell you some of these journalist and critiques are just %itches and have nothing else to write about so they try to be sensationalists and stand out with some bs stories.

[Sketchy_Galore]

I'm not offended by the trophy, at least not in the sense that I consider it an attack on women but it really is pretty lame and an example of why videogames are not respected as an artistic medium. God of war may be violent and extremely gory but it always made attempts to be a serious epic piece of mythology. Putting in little boxes that flash up dumb Jersey shore jock catchphrases at random points just totally ruins that. In There will be blood, there's a scene where a digger gets decapitated by falling equipment. If at that point a little box flashed up on screen saying, 'lol don't lose ur head' it would have taken me at least another hour to get back into the movie.

[TRGMatt]

I disagree...it's those little things like jokes and eater eggs that ADD to a Game's artistic presentation.

[isa_scout]

If a realsistic movie like There will be blood did it, it would be in poor taste. However,in Scott Pilgrim vs The World it would be perfectly acceptable because of the content in the film. GoW has never ever been based on anything remotely realistic. That's why it's called "Mythology" and besides EVERY GoW game has some funny ass trophy that has to do with either bedding a woman or killing a woman so why the hell do people all of a sudden care? Because Sessler said so? I've said it before and I'll say it again, if violence, crude jokes, language, or sex bothers you you need to find another hobby. And if that kind of stuff bothers you then why the hell are you playing a game that has everything I listed in spades?

[Karpetburnz]

Its reviews like sesslers that lower the games Metascore for stupid reasons, I mean all previous GoW games had a Metacritic score above 90, and now GoW:A only has a 79???? are you kidding me? also some critics say that it doesnt bring anything new to the series a yet they praise every CoD and Halo.

Im still gonna enjoy the game and no critic can tell me otherwise.

[TRGMatt]

I can't believe the outcry at this trophy...for God's sake, people, get a sense of humor! So sensitive. "Rated M for Mature." I daresay that maturity includes taking a joke for what it is without painting it as a sexist point of view. Do you REALLY think the developers are sexist? Let it go. It's funny. I laughed out loud when I saw that trophy and am a bit perturbed at Sessler's up-in-arms reaction. I respect the guy's opinions, mostly, but not this one. Let it be what it is, don't turn it into a politically motivated propaganda piece disguised as a PSN Trophy. Jesus, people. Thicker skin.

[tetsuhana]

Captain Save-A-Fury

[Cyrax4]

Where is George Carlin when you need him?

Would love to see him tear Sessler to shreds for his douchebaggery.

People wouldn't say a damn thing if this was in an R-rated comedy (especially a primarily black comedy like the Friday movies). This phoney outrage is fucking stupid. Sessler is a balding loser. Pathetic hack was fired from G4 for good reason.

[Game0N]

And the fact that he pretty much dissed everyone who might enjoy the game by calling us "bros" just for not having a problem with it. This is a new low for Sessler, someone who i actively watch.

[ElementX]

I've never been a fan of GoW's mindless violence toward innocents

[isa_scout]

For people that are saying that games need to mature beyond what God Of War represents before they're considered art I have something to say: What is so awesome about a game being considered art? Are we really that attention seeking? Do we somehow need to be accepted by society in order to feel better about our hobby? I see it now, once games are called "art" everyone will love and accept us without question! Wrong!!! Some people will ALWAYS think gamers are the violent degenerates of society. Me personally, I'd rather a game be f***ing awesome over being art. After all every Uwe Boll movie is considered art, and they're all crap. I say let games be games. Why the hell do all games have to be like movies or books? Sometimes I just want to split some lips....Speaking of which... I gotta go. Lara Crofts about to be raped in a quick time event ;)

[MrDead]

Well obviously judging by the comments a lot people aren’t mature enough to play this game. Take it in context.

[arbitor365]

i get the feeling he has just been aching for attention since he left G4.

even if GOW was misogynistic, it would be appropriate for the time period it takes place in.

[ThreshStar]

I think it's not necessarily a major issue but it does speak about the gaming community at large. It's an 18-49 male demo, emphasis on the male. The God of War developers understand this and for an action game geared towards males, it's a perfect fit.

It also shows just how thin the line is between catering to a specific demo and just out-right schilling to them. A God of War game has enough violence, mayhem, sexual gratuity, etc. to please any average violence/sex-loving guy.

The issue is when you take it just a bit too far. Kind of like a joke everyone likes, then someone tags it with another punchline, but then someone else tags the tag. Sure, it may be funny, but by then we got it. No need to get gratuitous about it.

I'm absolutely not offended by it whatsoever, however the phrase "Really?" did pop into my head. Not out of anger, just out of "Alright, I get it! He LOOOOOOOOOVES TO HURT PEOPLE!"

[0pie]

wow... this is just ridiculous!! Some people are verry oversensitive...
There is nothing wrong with the "bro before hoes" achievement and the scene who come with it.

[TuxedoMoon]

I respect his opinion, but the trophy thing was meant as a joke. I haven't played the game nor did his review actually show that particular battle, but I'm sure that boss was a hostile that deserved a gruesome GOW signature death like all the other enemies unfortunate to run into Kratos.

I think he's simply over reacting. What about how women just offer themselves to Kratos? How they're only there to be sex objects? He didn't get mad about the sex scenes...but this trophy?

[SaffronCurse]

Adam Sessler is a hypocrite.

http://www.g4tv.com/games/p...

He reviewed GoW III for G4 with absolutely no mentioning of the scene with the Poseidon Princess and the Trophy earned by letting her get crushed into a gooey mess. A scene I consider to be a low point in the entirety of the GoW series.

Here you have this hapless girl (who, most likely is a sex slave of Poseidons) literally being pulled against her will by Kratos, in order save her from Poseidons grasp? No, no of course not. Kratos pulls her through the hallways just to use the pleading, half naked girl as a door-stop for the heavy wheel that crushes her almost immediately so he can progress through a gate. A wheel mind you, that could've been stopped by one of the giant hammers Kratos pulls from the many Talos you fight along the way...

Shortly after you hear the girl get crushed to death by the wheel you receive the trophy "I didn't do it...but I wish I did!" which (to me) implies rape or at the very least that Kratos should have had sex with her before using her as a human door-stop. I found this scene from GoW III to be deplorable and uneccesary.

Now, I have yet to play Ascension but the "Bros before Hos" Trophy seems to be nowhere near as bad as the one from GoW III. First of all the Trophy comes from defeating a Fury. The Furies are the main Antagonists of the game and are nowhere near as helpless as the Poseidon Princess. They put up good fights I'm sure and probably do their fair amount of damage (mental and physical) to Kratos. From what people have said this Fury also tortures Kratos. A far cry from the innocent woman who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Kratos' extreme hate towards the Furies is understandable and it doesn't surprise me Kratos treats them with extreme prejudice. Also, unlike the GoW III trophy there is no implying of a sexual act or rape. I don't understand how Adam can take offense from this scene/Trophy but not the Poseidon Princess scene/Trophy from God of War III...

Just my two cents.

[Sketchy_Galore]

Actually the woman from GOW3 sold poison milk to school children so your argument is invalid.

[ThreshStar]

...that sounds like something Hitler would say...

[Bigkdog81]

You do realize these aren't real people right?

[Grimhammer00]

I wonder if he hated the crotch shot trophy in lollipop chainsaw? Context is 95% of these kinds of arguments.
Bros before hoes......is it the implication that violence against mythical female humanish creatures is bad?
That somehow we've reached the point in gaming that has superceded common sense of reality?

I'm just saying....its in context of the furies being his enemies that are torturing him. Yes, with humor... Its a game with super serious story. A little levity is fine from a 1sec shown trophy.
If it was a human female and kratos had no reason to attack her...then Sessler would have a argument.

[ILLINOIS]

Man up Adam.

[Ryo-Hazuki]

Sessler deducts points because of the name of a trophy. You can't be serious? He wants to point out franchise fatigue? Okay lets see how consistent you are when you review the new gears next week.

[Pathosverdes3]

That is not a woman. That is only a trophy. It's just a game. Don't you have anything better to do? Lives to live, jobs and families? Is this BS the most important thing? Sad.
at least Sony gets some free advertising for the game with this "controversy"...

[tenacious_b]

Who gives a ****... People get offended over everything. Grow some ***** . I only wish it was even more offensive so I can hear everyone whine.

[ajax17]

This is nothing to get pissy over! It's a God of War game. Not a Barbie adventure game! My God Adam is such a feminist. Bros before Hos... Ooh it's so offensive.

[counselorterry]

Fact of the matter is, if the name of the trophy wasn't brought up by a popular game critic, nobody would be talking about it at all. He should have left it alone and nobody would care. I like Sessler's opinions on games most of the time because he cuts through the bs and tells it like it is, but this is one instance where I think the whole thing was a little blown out of proportion

[yazter]

I don't mind it, then again I don't see what's wrong with a Bro-fest. Maybe it's because I'm gay and I prefer men over women. But that's just me.

[meday354]

That guy his a ass, when he talks crap comes out his mouth literally.

[x5exotic]

He's just having a bitch-fit...take it easy on him :/

[Bigkdog81]

I showed my wife. She said it doesn't offend her.

[_FantasmA_]

Marry her. She's a keeper then.

[Orionsangel]

I knew it when it was first announced. God of War: Ascension will never top GOWIII. That game was just too EPIC and Grand for it's own good. I saw the peak of the series. So going back now feels less impressive. While it's awesome to play as Kratos again. God of War: Ascension is nothing more than glorified DLC to add to the story of Kratos's main quest.

[TronEOL]

I'll be getting this game regardless, since I love God of War. But I do sort of agree that it doesn't "feel" like God of War 1-3. That might be because I'm not sure what's driving him.

I felt sorry for Kratos in the previous games because of his whole family situation. And even more so with Ghost of Sparda with his brother. So him getting revenge felt so satisfying, and killing everyone so brutally felt right.

But I can't help but feel like Ascension is just meant to carry the "mindless gore" on a bit longer. Maybe I need to play the game fully to get more context, but reviews seem to be giving me the feeling that I won't be getting any.

Oh well, I'll find out in less than a week.

:EDIT: And I don't care much for that whole "bros before hos" thing. The people you stomp are mythical beings that are ugly as sin and have most likely killed tens of thousands of people. And want to kill/stop Kratos from fully rebelling against Ares. She (and her sisters) should get their face stomped in. It gets us to GoW3 doesn't it?

[Jamaicangmr]

i admit the name is a bit tasteless but come on Adam it really isn't that big of a deal. If that ruined it for you then you really weren't in it to begging with.

As much as i think they should just patch the name and get it over with, i however wouldn't recommend it. Thats gonna give every other reviewer the idea that whatever they bitch about should be changed as well.

I played the Demo and love it, can't wait to buy my copy.

[ziggurcat]

*sigh*

****ing white-knighters are at it again... it's god of war for ****'s sake...

what next? cries of sexism because kratos happens to rip harpies and medusas apart from time to time?

[_FantasmA_]

Its only a crime when its against women or black guys huh, but meanwhile black people can say and do anything to white people because their ancestors were slaves and because women were once treated as second class citizens huh? There's a fine line between feminists and misandriasts and I have yet to me a feminist that didn't hate men. Why is it okay for women to joke about us having small members and joke about cutting it off but we can't so much as lay hands on a girl or talk about boobs. I'm sorry but this equal rights thing needs to go both ways. Women can't just ask for equal treatment when it benefits them and then a act like we should bend over backwards for them or like they are special when they are at a disadvantage. I will hit a girl! Now that doesn't mean I will go up to girl and punch her in the face. What I mean is so long as a girl hits me FIRST, I will punch her back with the intention of knocking her out. A fight is a fight, regardless of gender. What am I supposed to do? Just let a girl break my nose, knock out my teeth, and send me to the hospital to get metal plates in my skulls with 37 staples and stitches? Get over yourselves women. You want equal treatment? Well start by being tougher and complaining less. Same goes for black people who use the term white boy but start loading up there guns when some says ni--. By the way I'm not white. I'm just tired of seeing this crap at my job.

[ShiftyLookingCow]

I am getting tired of this. It seemed like we were over the days of Puritans and Victorians but I guess not.

[baodeus]

i don't know why people think violence against woman would be funny (joke), even if it is just a game? Anyone in this thread actually find it enjoyable? Tiqila?

It is just like that movie "irreversable" with monica belluci. Everyone just left the theater during the violent rape scene. No matter what you say, it is not tasteful and that is the end of it.

@Tiqila,

I think the developers' wives will have issue with their game, im pretty sure. It don't think it ends well with anyone (gamer or developers).

[devilhunterx]

White power = bad
Black power = good

Hypocrite much?

[feels]

this is stupid... feminists oppress men everyday and no one says a thing

feminists are not about equality

[_FantasmA_]

Read my statement just a few comments up. They want equality for them, at the expense of cutting off our balls. Seriously just read comments on any article that involves a man raping or cheating or even talking about a woman and you will some nothing but vulgarities towards men and yet that is deemed okay. Women get away with too much. Like black people who use the race card, women use the damsel in distress/weakling card.

[DivineAssault]

damn, what a spoiler filled review! wtf adam?! why so sensitive??? Im still buying it buddy