Next Generation Console Discussions: No Such Thing As DDR5

Mobile & Apps: "Not too long after Sony announced the PlayStation 4 and that it will come packed with 8GB of super fast GDDR5 RAM, many gamers seem to totally forget a "G" is present and began to call the thing DDR5. Well, there is no such thing as DDR5; it does not yet exist in any shape or form."

[GribbleGrunger]

LOL... 'The missing 'G'

Definitely article material.

[RememberThe357]

I'm actually happy someone came out and cleared it up. Tech terms are not common language and clarification is sometimes needed for anything to make sense.

I had no idea there were two types of RAM, so this was useful to me. You learn something new everyday. :)

[Ju]

Oh please. A page about a letter without saying much. Do really no more now other than they are called differently? I mean, really? Goes on and on about the G. (lol, at least he PS4 got the G ;)

[SilentNegotiator]

Hey, DDR5 can be a ABBREVIATION, then :P

At least until DDR5 actually becomes a thing.

[falcon79]

Ive said it before the G stands for graphics.

[George Sears]

They are more than two types.

[knowyourstuff]

This is just nerdy OCD ad nausea. There's more than two types of RAM, and no one cares what any of it is called. Get a life people.

[SolidStoner]

So in the end there is GDDR5 instead of DDR5... and

"We should brace ourselves for a cheaper next generation Xbox compared to the Sony PlayStation 4."

I did know this in 2005!!!!

[nveenio]

There exists significantly more than two types of RAM. In fact, back in the 90s, RAM was super confusing. But this? This is not confusing at all. Of course it's all graphics RAM. It's shared with the graphics card...

duh

[Azmatik]

Ok this is what i dont get.... Can anyone clear this up ill try n make sense here. So PS4 has 8gb GDDR5 and thats the only RAM it actually has right? And if the 8gb GDDR5 is shared RAM for video and OS/apps and loading wouldnt it still make RAM thats dedicated to strictly loading apps and operating system DDR5?

[SilentNegotiator]

CLEARLY.....I should have put "/s" at the end....

[ATi_Elite]

GPU Memory = GDDR5 = Graphic Double Data Rate (Generation) 5

CPU Memory = DDR3 SDRAM = Double Data Rate (Generation) 3, Synchronous Dynamic Random Access Memory

GPU GDDR6 arrives in 2014 for the PC
CPU DDR4 arrives in 2013 for the PC

hope that clears things up!!!

[jivah]

@AraK but APUs are not a CPU and a GPU mashed together. That would insist something like the Cell inside the PS3. A CPU that has the ability to do of GPU level rendering. When essentially an APU is a CPU and a GPU shrunk down to fit on the same die

[ZoyosJD]

GDDR is a variation of DDR first put in place with Nvidia's geforce FX 5800 being a variation based off ddr2-sdram.

gddr5 is the current graphics variation of ddr3.

The memory itself is still very much similar to the point that they can serve the same purpose as will be the ps4s case with a unifed pool for both.

Your explanation, separating the two, does nothing for those who are genuinely curious and confused by the ps4s useage of one form.

Please consider the question at hand before anwsering "superiority coming in two years at an insane price i will pay."

It's ok, I understand.

[DigitalSmoke]

You seem to forget that there's no PC that does what the PS4 does, the ram is NOT separate on the PS4.

I know you guys ignore this little fact, and all ACT as if you can, but on a x86 setup it is IMPOSSIBLE to mimmick the PS4's main CPU/GPU > RAM pool.

PC will be faster in time, but they cannot do the same.

DO YOU EVEN BLURAY BRO!?

[Gamer1982]

Once the DDR4 memory comes along the advantages of GDDR5 start to diminish again. DDR4 will enable higher densities at comparable speeds as well as upgradeable modules which might be more desirable for customers The new Intel processors will support DDR4 later this year.

[N4g_null]

Comput shaders on a pc means that yes a pc can use the video cards gddr5 ram. This is possible with cuda or open cl. This is the perk of gpgpu programming.

So I have had this type of functionality on a pc for years now. This is also going to be a future design of newer low power pc. Not high end pcs, they will still use pic express or some thing faster.

So yes I can't build a ps4 I can only build a pc better than a ps4 since the cards worth buying on pc have way more comput shader performance and tflops. What is even cooler is the prices will fall as new tech comes out.

[LessThan2Tflops]

@Digitalsmoke

PCs using separate CPU/gpu and separate RAMis a good thing, there's no reason to "mimick" an apu. We already have APUs in laptops, it's a compromise because of limited space and power use.

It's like saying you want a gaming pc to mimick a laptop

[360ICE]

It is though. It's good to see some informative writing, and not just "X is going to fail (even though I have no knowledge about business and no inside information)".

[SatanSki]

Yeah. I hoped for more technical details.

[Psn800]

DDR SDRAM
Standard Bus clock
(MHz) Internal rate
(MHz) Prefetch
(min burst) Transfer Rate
(MT/s) Voltage DIMM
pins SO-DIMM
pins MicroDIMM
pins
DDR  100–200  100–200 2n 200– 400  2.5/2.6 184 200 172
DDR2 200–533  100–266 4n 400– 1066 1.8 240 200 214
DDR3 400–1066 100–266 8n 800– 2133 1.5 240 204 214
DDR (DDR1) was superseded by DDR2 SDRAM, which had modifications for higher clock frequency and again doubled throughput, but operates on the same principle as DDR. Competing with DDR2 was Rambus XDR DRAM. DDR2 dominated due to cost and support factors. DDR2 was in turn superseded by DDR3 SDRAM which offered higher performance for increased bus speeds and new features. DDR3 will likely be superseded by DDR4 SDRAM, which was first produced in 2011 and whose standards are still in flux (2012) with significant architectural changes.
DDR's prefetch buffer depth is 2(bits), while DDR2 uses 4. Although the effective clock rates of DDR2 are higher than DDR, the overall performance was no greater in the early implementations, primarily due to the high latencies of the first DDR2 modules. DDR2 started to be effective by the end of 2004, as modules with lower latencies became available.[11]
Memory manufacturers stated that it was impractical to mass-produce DDR1 memory with effective transfer rates in excess of 400 MHz (i.e. 400MT/s and 200 MHz external clock) due to internal speed limitations. DDR2 picks up where DDR1 leaves off, utilizing internal clock rates similar to DDR1, but is available at effective transfer rates of 400 MHz and higher. DDR3 advances extended the ability to preserve internal clock rates while providing higher effective transfer rates by again doubling the prefetch depth.
RDRAM was a particularly expensive alternative to DDR SDRAM, and most manufacturers dropped its support from their chipsets. DDR1 memory's prices substantially increased since Q2 2008 while DDR2 prices declined. In January 2009, 1 GB DDR1 was 2–3 times more expensive than 1 GB DDR2. High density DDR RAM will suit about 10% of PC motherboards on the market while low density will suit almost all motherboards on the PC Desktop market.

[Liamabob]

Thanks, Wikipediabot.

[b777conehead]

nice copy paste

[JsonHenry]

Here it is folks! GDDR5 -
http://www.amd.com/us/produ...

[3-4-5]

Such a Poindexter article.

[Eddie20101]

GDDR5 is still faster than GDDR3 and is faster than DDR3. Pointless argument.

Most people have been reffering to the PS4 memory correctly at least the one who care about such things the others don't know much about the parts of computer and consoles anyway and probably don't care or need to know.

[Derekvinyard13]

Why the hate already

[JeepGamer]

Trolling for page hits.

[mistertwoturbo]

Did you two not read the article?

[JeepGamer]

Yes I did. Apparently people on their little disagree fest need to relax a bit.

This headline and snippet from the article were intentionally done in a seemingly negative way to get people to hit the link. The actual content of the article not withstanding, it was trolling for page hits.

[Kurt Russell]

It's clearly not trolling. I honestly didn't know the difference until just now... you're just a typical over reactive child who spits their dummy out at the smallest hint of something possibly negative being said about your beloved corporation (which wasn't even the case with this article).

[papashango]

You'll notice here on N4G. Just the act of an article or comment not seeing eye to eye with the people here is often referred to as trolling.

I'm just going to attribute this to N4G user base growing as more younger people join. I don't think they know what trolling actually means.

[BanBrother]

@Derek

That is a prime example of why whenever fanboys (of whatever console) make out as if the media is attacking their beloved corporation, I just laugh. Thank you for making my day.

Damn, it's raining outside. "WHY DOES WATER HATE ME??"

[knifefight]

Because you left the 'G' out of Gwater.

[dredgewalker]

You also forgot to bring the Gumbrella and a Graincoat.

[RyuCloudStrife]

water hates me...................

[fermcr]

Yep... it's all about finding the sweet 'G' Spot.

[RandomDude655]

There is no G......spot

[jocomat9]

cchum the ladies are gonna love you.

[SilentNegotiator]

"That's a myth!"

[Rivitur]

Gamespot?

: O

[VoiceMale]

So question what about the system ram I was under impression that the memory mentioned previously was system..or is it gonna be used in conjunction with the APU...can somebody clear this up a bit for me if u will?

[sobekflakmonkey]

yeah, the APU is a GPU and CPU mashed together, so naturally, the 8GB GDDR5 ram will be used in conjunction with the APU, thats generally how ram works in any case really, and at the same time it will be used for other such operations, theres 8gigs of it, I'm pretty sure you can find articles on it.

[Knight_Crawler]

Can you explain what you just said in english?

[andibandit]

@Knight_Crawler

He said the RAM will be in the cloud.

[nypifisel]

It's not just mashed together. Let's talk about it in terms more easily understandable.

Let's say normally you would have CPU (Central Processing Unit) and a GPU (Graphical Processing Unit). These would be separate, the CPU would connect through a Socket on your Motherboard while the GPU would be part of a Graphics Card which would connect to the motherboard through a PCIE port.

In an APU (Accelerated Processing Unit) These two (GPU/CPU)would be on the same die.

GPU= [G]
CPU= [C]

Normal configuration:
([G]), ([C]) - each are separate

APU:
([C][G]) - both consist on the same die ()

Also normally the GPU would have its own Memory (GGDR5 a faster memory type better at moving lesser but Bigger chunks) and the CPU would have its own (DDR3 better at moving smaller chunks more often)
With an APU the GPU and the CPU both access the same memory for their tasks, this is why using GDDR5 rather than DDR3 is a good thing, cause DDR3 which isn't a very good memory for moving let's say textures and would seriously bottleneck the GPU.

GDDR5 bandwidth PS4: 176GB/s
DDR3 bandwidth WiiU: 12.7 GB/s

[VoiceMale]

Hey thanks for the time to clarify that for me .....appreciate it really

[herbs]

Nypifisil you are correct however just to clarify the Wii U has a decent amount of Edram to act as a buffer which compensates for the 12.7 GB/s obviously it comes no where close to the PS4s 176 GB/s but Its probably at minimum 3X that perceived rate.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Its shared/unified.

[neoMAXMLC]

It's unified 8GB of GDDR5 RAM. Can be used for either system or graphics.

Edit - whooaaa I am late.

[CaitSith]

Actually, there is.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

haha

[neoMAXMLC]

How did I know the moment I clicked that link?

lol I'm too much of a DDR nut.

[lilbroRx]

This is not a hate article. This is an informative article. I actually saw a lot of people calling it DDR5 when its not. Its not DDR at all. The G specifies and entirely different type of RAM that was made for graphics(thats what the G stands for). DDR3 is the strongest pure system RAM at the moment. DDR4 hasn't even been announced to my knowledge let alone DDR5.

Goodness, if someone even says something that can be construed as even remotely negative about Sony(which is not the case here) they are slammed as hating.

This is why releasing specs to fanboys brings no good. Most people don't know what they are reading. All they know it "ooooo, big number good. uggghhhh small number bad". Like how people bashed the Wii U for having a 1.2 GHZ clock speed compared to the 3.2 GHz 360 CPU, yet I've seen no one try to say the PS4's 1.6 GHz CPU is weaker than the 3.2 Ghz cell in the PS3.

[sobekflakmonkey]

I had actually mentioned that one time, nobody really cared, and I think it's basically because nobody actually understands what any of it means, unless your extremely tech savvy or a PC enthusiast.

[Ju]

Yeah. Exactly. So why are people riled up if it's G or no G? 99% of people on here have no clue anyway.

[N4g_null]

If people knew what that ram was capable of and what it isn't they would ask a better question. How does the memory controller work?

[Hydralysk]

I think what riles people up more are these people listing off specs that they clearly don't understand, and then using them as proof of that hardware's superiority/inferiority.

BTW I'm talking about hardware in general here, PC enthusiasts can be just as susceptible to it as console owners.

[dantesparda]

@lilbroRx

"Like how people bashed the Wii U for having a 1.2 GHZ clock speed compared to the 3.2 GHz 360 CPU, yet I've seen no one try to say the PS4's 1.6 GHz CPU is weaker than the 3.2 Ghz cell in the PS3."

Because the Wii U's cpu is based on 1997 PowerPC RISC technology (in technological terms, this cpu is really old technology), its basically 3 Gamecube cpus duct taped together with a higher clockrate (mhz/ghz) and some extra cache (if even!). While the Jaguar CISC based cpu (which btw is better than RISC) in the PS4 is based on some of the lastest tech out there. And it has 8 cores vs 3 in the Wii U and one Jaguar core is more powerful than a Wii U core. So give that crap a break and stop believing and spewing stupid sh!t! Just cuz you're a Wii U fanboy doesnt mean that the Wii U is anywhere near as poweful as the PS4

And p.s. the Wii U's cpu isnt even as powerful as the 360's cpu

[aquamala]

GDDR5 actually is based on DDR3 memory, but with an added pre-fetch buffer so it can achieve better bandwidth, but not better latency.

in other words, for transferring large amounts of data, GDDR5 is better, for transferring small amounts of data, DDR3 is better. and that's why on PCs, GDDR5 are used for video ram (because most of time the GPU is transferring large textures), but not system ram.

[Ju]

See, I learned more in that one sentence than in the whole article.

[OpenGL]

Every subsequent DDR revision has had worse latency than its predecessor, but more available bandwidth.

[Muerte2494]

is the GPU and CPU added together, the APU will be using the RAM for system functions as well. There will also be less bottlenecking because of ps4's tight component integration.

[mistertwoturbo]

This is true. But like Muerte said, it's an APU. And keep in mind, it's a PS4, it's going to play games. It's not going to do video editing or programming or anything like that. So latency isn't as big of an issue. GDDR5 is better suited to that set up.

[N4g_null]

Mister... Triangle setups take up less than a meg. Yet huge polygon counts can take up 200 mega or more. These are the polygons. Maybe the CPU is setup to be a slave of the gpu? People are still benchmarking this setup and you will see even more info as this tech makes its way to pc or module computing.

Latency could be a problem but more preloading would work great.

[WarThunder]

WUT?!!!!

Do u actually know what the heck your talking about, You are confusing GPU Ram with Random-access memory.
GDDR5 is the GPU memory and NOT Random-access memory...

"Example" This Graphics card from AMD has 3gb of GDDR5
http://www.amd.com/us/produ...

U don't know what your talking about and look at your 30 agrees. *facepalm*

Pathetic.

[N311V]

Are you serious? GDDR5 and DDR3 are both RAM! Main difference is that GDDR5 has a much higher bandwidth than DDR3.

[hesido]

From Wikipedia
"GDDR5 (Graphics Double Data Rate, version 5) SDRAM is a type of high performance DRAM graphics card memory designed for computer applications requiring high bandwidth."

SDRAM -> Synchronous dynamic RANDOM-ACCESS memory.

So GDDR5 is a type of RAM.

*Double facepalm*

[hesido]

@lilbroRX : Exactly my thoughts. This is just information, and people think it is trolling and hit piece.

"Whut? You say PS4 has GDDR5 and not DDR5?! I don't know what that means but you surely must hate Sony to say that."

[kamikazepikmin]

damnit, no dance dance revolution i guess

[883]

"No such thing as DDR 5" they said... PFFFT... Shows what they know. Proof of a genuine DDR 5 (mind you I don't think ANY -good- games were played with these):

http://mashopsimg.com/kohlr...

Kamikazepikmin: I couldn't use your Dance Dance Rev. reference so I had to go all historical for this bad joke.

[KillrateOmega]

Did this really warrant an article? An article that is basically a publicly announced spellcheck?

It appears that the standards for what warrants an article are ever declining...

[MrDead]

I feel this man’s pain.

This reminds me of when my friends and I went out train spotting. There were five of us observing the west coast rail line from the B148 Bridge. We were later joined by another spotter as excitement grew for the passing of the 60103 (which we all know is the number of the Flying Scotsman). As we tucked into our cheese sandwiches we could see the 60103 coming towards us, we got our notebooks out, recorded and log the event. It was then Neville one of my spotter clan noticed the newcomer had written down 103 which was the old number for the Flying Scotsman, so sickened and infuriated where we by this act we had to toss the stranger over the bridge to his death and then later burn down his house.

So remember people. IT’S GDDR5!

[Whymii]

You may have been a bit rough there.

Under special circumstances 60103 can be abbreviated to 103 as it is common knowledge that the Scotsman is 60103. I will sometimes abbreviate it if there is another train coming the other way at the same time and I haven't yet finished my cocoa and biscuit. After all, a spotter can only handle so much excitement and something has to give. Of course I correct the shortcut when I get home and review the footage I have taken. Oh joyous times.

Of course if he was plain and simply wrong then he deserved what he got. After all, we can't have amateurs making us look stupid.

[nypifisel]

Lol And I thought I was a nerd O______O

[MrDead]

Cocoa and biscuit. You wild man! Neville had a Red Bull one day and scared the passengers on the Penrith to Carlisle service, I'd never seen a 750lb man try to have sex with a train before.

[Whymii]

@MrDead

I've got that on video. It was with a G5 Type D Diesel R electric train with the triple Dynamic Decoupling Reticulated carriages. He was living 'the dream' that day, although I would have taken it out to dinner first, done the deed and then given it my phone number in the morning.

[DethWish]

These are the best comments I've ever read on N4G

[AKR]

Alright, so the PS4 uses GDDR and the Nextbox uses DDR.

Which does Wii U use? Or is that not completely confirmed?

[mistertwoturbo]

It uses 2GB of DDR3

[tachy0n]

*facepalm*

people PLEASE learn the difference between GDDR memory and DDR memory before making console players look bad and retarded.

[FragMnTagM]

Unless MS combines their CPU and GPU like Sony, Microsoft will have separate RAM like they did with the XBOX 360. I assume that Sony is fibbing a bit with their specs though (explained below).

The 360 has 512mb of GDDR3 Ram and 700Mhz of DDR RAM.

If this proves to be true: http://www.vgleaks.com/worl...

Then, MS is going to have two separate types of RAM. It says in that article, that it will have 8GB of DDR3 RAM, notice no "G" in front of DDR, which means this will most likely not be use for much on the GPU.

This means that MS could very well have a nice amount of GDDR5 up their sleeve. Even if it is only 2-4GB, the system will be very powerful.

To help explain this further, I have 16GB of DDR3 RAM, which is more than double of what a game would need to perform smoothly. This DDR3 RAM is normal system memory. In addition to this, I also have a 660ti that has 3GB of GDDR5 RAM. This is RAM that is only used by my graphics card. My 660ti is a pretty powerful card: http://www.tomshardware.com... and it only uses 3GB of GDDR5.

The 8GB of GDDR5 for the PS3 is either a white lie, as in it is split 4GB GDDR5 and 4GB of DDR3, which seems more likely, but like headblackman says below, it could be Sony just somehow getting specs from the future before I can actually buy them from a store.

The highest GDDR5 on a video card at the moment is 4GB.

Sorry about the long post, just trying to inform people that there is a difference between system RAM, and graphics card RAM.

[xPhearR3dx]

"The highest GDDR5 on a video card at the moment is 4GB."

That's actually incorrect. The GTX Titan has 6GB of GDDR5. That's also a $1000 GPU, so if Sony claims to have 8GB of GDDR5 that's dedicated to the GPU, then the PS4 is going to cost well over $1,000. Unless, like you said, it's split. Which is more reasonable.

[chaos-lockheart]

GTX TITAN has 6GB

[HiddenMission]

I dont think you grasp the concept of whole sale. Large companies that manufacture products do not pay over counter prices because they buy in bulk...aka million lot shopments. Most purchasing employees for fortune 500 companies have buy rates with savings well into the 90% margin especially when its not custom made product.

This is even more likely considering rumor has Sony forcasting 16 million units sold in 1st year. Unless services, games and price are way beyond expectation then that number wont be achieved...so it seems likely that price will be between $350 and $400.

[dakunclear]

okay all of you need to be shot, first off 8gb of gddr5 makes sense considering the gpu and cpu are on the same di so it very possible and can be done relatively cheap

[mwjw696]

The only problems I see with 8 gigs of GDDR5 is that it will take 140watts alone to run. (The xbox 360 at lauch only had a 203watt power supply.)

The power draw also means it will need masive cooling and air flow.

The last thing is the price. The ram alone will end up costing over $100 per console for Sony. People on Neogaf are estimating the system parts alone (no case, boxing, shipping, or assembly) will cost over $500. Thats going to be a lot of loss when the system first comes out.

[N311V]

Don't worry mate, you'll one day be able to buy these specs from the future http://www.brightsideofnews...

[OpenGL]

The Xbox 360 has 512MB of 700MHz GDDR3 and 10MB of eDRAM, the CPU and GPU share memory just as they will on the PS4.

You may be confusing it with the PS3, which had 256MB of 700MHz GDDR3 (although some reports claim it actually runs at 650MHz) and 256MB of 3.2GHz Rambus XDR RAM.

The PS4 is not going to use two types of RAM, the CPU and GPU always share a memory controller in an APU design.

[Omni-Tool]

Here is a pic from a while back of dev kit specs for the PS4.

http://www.ps3news.com/imag...

These are not correct anymore given that it is showing 10gb XDR2 & 10gb GDDR5 for memory but it does show 2 types of memory is being used at least from a development point of view.

I also build with AMD's APUs and they still need DDR3 or some sort of system dedicated memory to work properly. Sony did do some proprietary coding for the PS4 but I'm not sure on any other major modifications.

This is just theory crafting on my part but it would only make sense to still have about 2gbs of DDR3 for system use and GDDR5 for graphics. The fact that the GPU and CPU are still on the same die does not change the architecture or how it works together. It does however open up more bandwidth, reduces power consumption and reduces heat production.

I think it would be really funny if Sony actually omitted the fact that it uses 2 types of memory on purpose and that it also has 8gb DDR3 along with the 8gb of GDDR5.

[herbs]

One thing for sure is true... Sony has always been vastly overzelous when releasing the theoretical specs of there machines, I guess they know the majority of there fanbase will blindly eat it up and spread there misinformation. Hopefully this isn't the case with the PS4 but I would not be that surprised if things have been exaggerated yet again.

[N4g_null]

Don't forget the SRAM in the wiiu and the DDR and flash.
SRAM is actually faster than gddr5.

[pennywhyz]

LMFAO

[headblackman]

he didn't clarify or correct anything. I've been talking about this issue every since the whole fake ps4 announcement. gddr is GPU memory. and DDR is system memory. not to be confused with each other. the graphics card makes the games look pretty. the system memory takes the strain off of the CPU. so now that's out of the way, we can expose the ps4 specs. Sony claims that the ps4 has 8gigs of gddr5 memory. now to be clear, there is no such thing as gddr5 system memory. so they couldn't have been talking about system memory because they said gddr5. system memory only supports DDR, ddr2, ddr3. there is no ddr5 system memory. not even for PC's. so with that cleared up, one would now assume that they meant GPU ram (gddr3 or gddr5) because that's what they clearly posted and are standing by, because they have not reported anything that corrects the spec listings. so now let's expose this next flaw. the latest and greatest graphics cards (GPU) only get up to 4gigs. there is no such thing as a 8gig graphics card. not even on PC's (again) so what were they talking about? the only thing that I can see them meaning is having a high end 4gig gddr5 GPU and 4gigs of ddr2 or ddr3 system memory. but that's not 8gigs of gddr5 GPU memory, nor is it 8gigs of system memory. its just purposly botched system specs to sell the people a dream to get the public on board due to the horrible job of the ps3. but this won't end well for them once the people realize this. but I will say that if somehow, Sony can get things created for their system that does not exist for the PC, not only would it be amazing, but it would be ahead of the future. and 1 last thing. the ps4 CPU specs are questionable also, but we'll save that for another topic :-)

[mistertwoturbo]

You have to understand that it's an APU, meaning it's a CPU and GPU combined on a single chip. Do a bit of research on AMD's APU, it responds very well to faster memory for GAMING.

http://www.tomshardware.com...

There's about a 22% performance gain when going from DDR1600 to DDR2400. Timing isn't as important.

So the massive bandwidth of GDDR5 is going to work exceptional on that APU.

This is also the reason why people can't compare the PS4 directly to a PC, because these parts are clearly customized for the PS4 specifically. They didn't just throw a bunch of NewEgg parts together. And you can't say just because something isn't available on the market, that Sony or any other manufacturer can get custom made parts for their builds.

A lot of engineering went into the design.

And I want to reiterate one more time, latency isn't as important as people think. Heck, DDR compared to DDR3 is much faster in latency, but would people go back and equip their PCs with DDR? No, they still choose DDR3.

So even though GDDR5 isn't as tight, it's still blazing fast.

[headblackman]

even though its an apu that still doesn't explain the 8gigs of gddr5. there isn't even a gddr5 GPU created for the PC's yet. the highest it get is 4gig gddr5 GPU card. not 8gig gddr5 GPU. and gddr5 is not system memory. its simply memory solely dedicated to the graphics card and not the system. DDR is system memory and that only goes up to ddr3. not ddr5. so my question for Sony and their followers is what's the amount of GPU memory? and what's the amount of system memor? because they are not the same.

[mistertwoturbo]

GDDR5 CAN be used as system memory. The "G" is simply an annotation to represent the RAM that is used in graphics card. But it can still do system memory functions, it's just has higher latency.

Which refer back to my original point that having lower latency on a gaming console isn't as important as having it on a computer.

For games, memory timings and latency is almost irrelevant. Speed and bandwidth is far more important. Hence that is why it is equipped on graphics cards and not used as system memory.

But for the PS4 specifically, the 8GB of GDDR5 will function as BOTH VRAM and System Memory.

One more time so you can understand. IT'S GOING TO BE BOTH VRAM AND SYSTEM MEMORY. IT'S GOING TO BE BOTH VRAM AND SYSTEM MEMORY. IT'S GOING TO BE BOTH VRAM AND SYSTEM MEMORY.

Ok? Ok.

[chaos-lockheart]

Just let Sony worry about the hardware, and we worry about the gaming.

[nypifisel]

Lol you don't think the GDDR5 can preform general memory tasks? Cause they can, just cause there's no retail GPU which utilizes 8 GB of RAM doesn't mean it's impossible for it to be so. The PS4 shares the memory between the GPU and CPU and went for the GDDR config not to bottleneck the GPU. -_-

[N311V]

You should really open your mind to new possibilities. I don't know what more you need than confirmation from the head engineer. None-the-less Sony's lie of GDDR5 as system memory may well be the future http://www.brightsideofnews...

[KrisButtar]

from what i got from the article is that GDDR is better than DDR, kinda like Blu-ray is better than DVD? from the sound of it, DDR is out with the old, in with the new GDDR.

[Nafon]

No. GDDR5 is based on DDR3. Speaking in terms of PCs, GDDR is memory used by the GPU and DDR is memory used by the CPU. The xbox 360 uses one pool of GDDR3 for both, so the concept of using unified GDDR memory is nothing new. If the next xbox has 8 GB DDR3, it will probably have a separate GDDR chip with memory for the GPU. DDR can store memory in a more compact space than GDDR and won't be replaced anytime soon.

[FragMnTagM]

Thanks for saying what I said above, but in shorter form.

It really is not that hard to figure out, these people have Google and Wikipedia at their fingertips and can't be bothered to read for a few minutes and actually learn something.

[KrisButtar]

i understand it better by reading your comments along with others, the article didnt really have the idea painted very clear, as i was thinking that when i upgrade my 2x(4GB) DDR3 ram sticks would be replaced by GDD5 sticks, which is totally wrong. bubble up very helpful

[aquamala]

no .. DDR4 is going to replace DDR3 for system RAM, maybe later this year on PCs, or next year.

GDDR5 at this point is only used on video cards.

[FragMnTagM]

Not even close.

DDR =\= GDDR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

That^ is for 'DDR' or 'RAM'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

That^ is for 'GDDR' or 'VRAM'

They are used for completely different processes in gaming.

[KrisButtar]

very helpful thanks

[RFornillos4]

glad someone clarified this... my only concern is that if Sony's using GDDR5 which is fairly expensive compared to the supposed DRR3 that will be used by the next XBox, then we may need to brace ourselves for a more expensive PS4 compared to the XBox 720.

[WarThunder]

THis article did not clarified anything.....

They are confusing GPU Ram with Random-access memory http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

PS4 actually uses GDDR5. 8GB GDDR5 Memory.

There are lots of graphic cards on the market, uses GDDR5. Like this card for example read:

This card for example uses 3GB GDDR5:
http://www.amd.com/us/produ...

[RFornillos4]

on the contrary. if you read the article, he's clearly making a point that some people are confusing GDDR5 with DDR5, which are two different things. and he's saying the PS4 is indeed using GDDR5, but this is not the same as DDR5 because there is no such thing.

DDR4 won't be coming out to the consumer till 2014, which means we have yet to see DDR5. there is however a GDDR5 and I'm not arguing that PS4 is not gonna use that coz it is gonna be using exactly that, a GDDR5.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

It's an APU not a GPU or CPU, thus why GDDR5 is being used.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

?? Care to clarify what you mean by that? You make it sound like you're saying they wouldn't use GDDR5 if it was a GPU we were talking about.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

APU is kind of a mix between CPU and GPU. What I'm trying to say though is GDDR5 can and IS being used because an APU can use GDDR based ram.

[Bathyj]

The g is silent

[Bladesfist]

Exclusive to N4G

[solidboss07]

Well done Miss Marble. Big fuck'n deal. So what if somebody misquotes what Sony is putting into their next console. We know they mean GDDR5 as there is no such thing as DDR5!
Get over yourself. You sound like a butthurt 360 fan, or a PC Knob Jockey who is just full of venom, which has manifested as the septic pus in this article.
Even if a person is computer illiterate they can still understand PS4's superiority in design compared to PS3. Another 'most powerfull console', but this time a unified memory - the best GDDR5, and custom architecture but this time consisting of well understood x86 components. Win win.
PS4 exists, thats enough for me, just imagine GT without memory constraints and more horse power for the game engine. Why all of the hate and negativity?

[Dagobert]

I can't believe it's not butter.

[mjk45]

what people don't realize is AMD developed a road map for using APU with GDDR5 in a unified memory called HSA and it is the basis for the PS4 memory setup .

[DonFreezer]

FInally someone tries to wake ps3 fanboys from their sleeping paradise.

[teo72]

GDDR5 makes perfect sence. PS4 is a Games Console, not a PC. So no Windows, no spreadsheats, no document editing. Only Games and media such as bluray/dvd, mp3s, pictures etc. Same as PS3 before it. PS4 might look like a PC in terms of specs. But it is NO PC, it is a custom made Console Gaming machine.

The PS4 APU also have a 128-bit GDDR5 memory controller:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/new...

[kingPoS]

Ah!... that AMD article sure helped to explain the how & why.

[TheKayle]

nothing new on this side....console gamers have no idea of what theres in the box...and how it work...most r just fanboys...and when they claim their power win....is just coz someone told them...yea this have more power

[PCpower]

Here is a little something for you guys to know. A CPU would do terrible in a computer if it used GDDR5 vs DDR3. If my i7-3820 was GDDR5 based then it would get owned, even with the high bandwidth by an i7-3820 that uses DDR3. Latency is a performance killer for the CPU, hence the reason DDR3 is used for CPU's. Keep in mind that all the Top500 supercomputers do not have CPU's that use GDDR5 either for this reason because performance is an absolute priority.

These beasts are funded by governments that have DEEP pockets of money. If GDDR5 is so great for the CPU then supercomputers would have the CPU's use GDDR5. The only devices that use GDDR5 on supercomputers are the graphics accelerator cards that use GPU's as compute units. If I had to guess, I think the GPU one the PS4 is doing the data fetching to the GDDR5 RAM and is feeding the 8-core CPU whatever data it needs rather than the CPU fetching data like in a PC or supercomputer and then sending that data through the PCI express buss to the GPU on the video card. It's definitely a role reversal!

[SAE]

So the ps4 GDDR5 will focus on gaming(GPU) because it's really fast but it will not be that good for programs/windows because this stuff needs better performance which DDR3 provide for the cpu and GDDR5 is too fast for them. Right?.

But what i don't get it. Which one is better. The DDR4 or GDDR5 ?. Or i can't compare because both used for different things?. I feel like i'm stupid for asking this xD

I also feel like what happened to the ps3 will happen to the ps4 too. Ps3 was almost as good as pc when it's released but after one year the pc started to bring new tech and people started bashing the ps3. Same thing is happening to the ps4 -.- . At least it's a big leap compared to the console :)

[mjk45]

Time doesn't stand still a hurdle is just a fence to be jumped over and AMD has a road map for it's APU's coupled with DDDR5 unified ram direction called HSA and that solution is what the PS4 will use to overcome the earlier issues.

[Adolph Fitler]

PS4 will be a beast, 8gigs of memory as opposed to PS3's 256mbs.....and just the newer tech in every department has me excited for console gamings future. I mean Watchdogs will be a 1st gen title for PS4.....The game looks f%$king unbelievable, & that is unanimous as evidenced at E3 2012, as the whole collective gaming media & gaming community ignored Nintendo's...ahum....cough cough, next gen...cough cough lol cough, console.
Wii-U was non-existent & got faded out, had the dreaded Oscar speech music played over it....It suffered a knock out blow, at the hands of a truly next gen game, that we all knew would come to PS4 & 720.
I mean, imagine what 2nd & 3rd gen games will look like over time....I am still impressed by the occasional PS3 & 360 title, so Watchdogs 3 will probably be a pubic hair away from totally realistic visuals. Not to mention Killzone 5 & the myriad of other next gen games, we can look forward to.

It would be nice to see a positive story, or 2 written about Sony, as it is very hard to be negative about there Feb. PS4 reveal, as they actually did the smartest thing possible, by giving us the specs & controller design. Why give everything away, at an event like that, when it will mean you may be eclipsed by MS & all these other blow in's that are entering the market.
At least I still have something huge, other than the most important thing, game announcements, to look forward to, with the outer shells shape & color...I mean, ultimately it is the least important feature of the machine, apart from the cardboard packaging it comes in, as it serves no real purpose other than a dust protector & kiddie safe guard to stop unnecessary electrocutions.

So GDDR, DDDR, FDR, DVD, CCD, LSD, STD, STI, MP3, RROD, YLOD, or whatever other technical jargon, Sony tell me are included in the system, in the end, I am a console gamer, I am not that savvy on technical hardware & there cans & cant's, but I know basics, & I know that what Sony announced & games like Killzone showed, means that this thing (PS4), is going to blow PS3 out of the water in regards to power, & all round capabilities.......So, why the hell is there any negativity surrounding Sony's wickedly powerful upcoming console?
There is no reason whatsoever for gaming media, or gamers to doubt, or attack Sony constantly like so often has been the case, ever since PS1 & PS2 dominated so heavily & MS came to the market.

[Adolph Fitler]

Lets just enjoy what will be a awesome machine. I mean the damn thing was heavily influenced by many great developers & custom built to make developers jobs less miserable than PS2 & PS3's less developer friendly architecture.
So, it seems, us PS4 owners (& I will be one unless a) the world ends, b) Sony go broke halfway through production, or c) Sony's machine goes horribly wrong & releases as 2 PS2's crazy glued & sticky taped together, to make PS2xPS2=PS4. So, that being said, & those scenarios nigh on impossible (I hope), I will own a PS4 by holiday 2013 (provided they finally treat Europe & Australia with the respect we deserve, & don't screw us over with a last on the cards release, for a large a$$ price increase....I mean, it is pretty low for Sony to do that to us 4&5 times in a row & now possibly 6 times (including there awesome handhelds). But, reality bites hard, & I will have to relinquish to the sad fact us Australians will suffer, once again, with a last on the cards PAL release schedule. I mean, Sony have lost a lot of sales & customers in Europe thanks to this Japanese mentality to cater to America 1st, to try steal sales from MS's 360.
I mean, get with it Sony HQ Japan, cater to the countries that support your products most, like Europe & Australia, & fact is that Europe PS sales are the best worldwide, Euro's & Aussies love Playstation machines & they sell in masses there & here (I'm obviously an Aussie). And, considering Europe's population eclipses that of America, & Americans seem mostly patriotic about there console of choice & stick to the "American Made" in China & Turkey products (which is fair enough, as they need to keep as much money inhouse, as possible). But, in fairness to us AustrEuropeans, it really is about time Sony rewarded us, instead of shunning us again, & releasing much later than U.S. I want a PS4 by Xmas 2013, but living in Australia, Sony will release here 3-4months after U.S., & that makes it well after Xmas & makes it a crap Xmas 2013, & a horrible long wait, consisting of seeing all the best bits of PS4 launch games & being even more tortured, with vids of upcoming stellar looking titles, that will be torturous as a gamer 1st & foremost, & as a PS fan 2ndly.

All specs & mixed letters & numbers aside, I know nothing about what makes a console tick, I just know what a great game is, so, that is where my loyalties lie, & having been a gamer for over 30yrs, & coming through from Intellivision to Wii-U, & owning them all....I can safely say that Sony's machines have always had masses of all the best 3rd party titles, as well as some classic new original IP's from some of these 3rd parties, then the extra special icing on the cake, in that Sony had amasses the hand down, best stable of exclusive 1st party studios, in the business. No console before PS1 had the quantity & quality of games available (I mean, they had more crap games than any machine before, but that was because of the fact that just soooo many games were made for the little grey box. I described it as like having a machine made by both Sega & Nintendo. And, I meant that, in the sense that it had a catalogue of games that rivaled the 2 put together. And, my analogy was proven as fact to me, in so far as that Sony stole both there sales & totally obliterated both N64's & Saturn's sales.
Anyway, GCDDR or DDDR, it means sh!t to me, as I'm buying my PS4 at midnight launch, & I'm hopefully going home with Evolutions new racer, Killzone, Watchdogs & a few others that I feel will float my boat.

[Rainstorm81]

Can I get the condensed version of that double wall of text?

[kevnb]

I know something about computer tech, Im not exactly a guru. But I wonder how they are using gddr5 for the processor when nobody else has done it. Or an even better question is why, even supercomputers dont use it. The next xbox doesnt use it either. As far as I understand gddr ram isnt so great for cpus because of latency. But then again maybe for strictly gaming gddr5 might be ok?

[N311V]

Here you go http://www.brightsideofnews...

[Nevers0ft]

Can't we all just agree that the PS4 runs on pixies and fairy dust and relax until we can play the damned thing? If you're more concerned with raw horsepower or the length of its wang than the quality of the software running on it you're not a gamer, you're an idiot.

[kevnb]

seems like a troll article to me, gddr5 video cards are the ones we cant afford? What are we going back 6 years?

[hazelamy]

um, ok.

does it really matter?

[unicron7]

Eeeeeexactly. Be prepared to see more mindless dribble like this on here in the coming months.

[feels]

its nuthin but a g thang

[leogets]

Ps4 is supercharged pc arcitecture. Herman says so from gurilla games

[memots]

Of course there is for next gen ...

Dance Dance Revolution 5 !! ?

[sagapo]

G marks the spot :p

[solidboss07]

'CPUs don't use GDDR5'. Well GPU's do and the Playstation 4 architecture has most of the consoles performance coming from the GPU. I am sure Sony would not go to the bother of 8GB unified Ram, and then use more expensive, less suitable memory type. Mark Cerney filled me with confidence as he spoke. None of the glitzy hyperbowl crap, just a matter-of-fact reveal with good explanation of where they are going with Playstation. He was calm and measured, but the underlying excitement and energy was there, bubbling beneath the surface, coming from the fact they know that the new console is a good gaming machine.

[Alcohog]

Its used as an abbreviation. Not sure if serious, article.

[KuroiTori]

Great article, definitely cleared up some things.

[Gamerjunki3]

It (the article) may have cleared the labels up, but that doesn't make it a great article.
"Both RAM types were designed for video memory" is plainly wrong, only GDDR5 was designed for video memory, and is a variation of DDR3, which was designed for system memory.

"GDDR is better" in a conventional manner, this statement is wrong, due to the fact it depends on what you are using the type of RAM for:
DDR is employed to support the CPU because it possesses low-latency, however it doesn't possess a high-bandwidth compared to GDDR5.
GDDR5 supports the GPU, but its high latency could potentially starve the CPU.
So to say it is better is not technically true, because one may opt for lower-latency over high-bandwidth, making DDR better.

However, conventional problems associated with GDDR5 such as high latency will more than likely be sorted out by AMD when concerning the PS4.

[KuroiTori]

Well, we're all entitled to our own opinions I guess. :) I appreciate the reply.

[Gamerjunki3]

We are all entitled to our opinions, though some are established on factual evidence.

[konohashin]

Did you know? PS4 has little dwarves/elves inside that power the console by using its DANCE DANCE REVOLUTION 5!

[Hitman0769]

Good read. The headline makes you interested immediately and the article substantiates itself with facts. Don't judge a book by its cover this article is worth reading and actually seemingly neutral on most issues.

@konohashin lol ps3 had those , they will be cutting the costs a bit by not including them in ps4 but i don't think that's a big deal. and they are called "NANO TECHNOLOGY" not elves ;)

@Alcohog relax bro this thing is educational, let these ppl get sum learning on.

[Vanfernal]

I thouht this was a PS flame article... But that was actually quite informative.

[T3MPL3TON]

Not only is the article flat-out wrong. It has a friggen typo in the title..

[unicron7]

Haters are out in full force today. PS4 will be a beast. Deal with it. Day 1 for me. Best thing about the machine? harcore AAA content and not having a lame hardware add on forced upon you. :-D

[TABSF]

Well I was not gonna comment but there is just so much crap its insane.

AMD manufacture CPUs, they acquired ATi and subsequently re-branded them AMD. realising that on CPU power and performance they have been falling behind Intel since Core 2 series they went for the better bang for buck option.

AMD having ATi on side accelerated their APU project. AMD then announced the Fusion project in 2006 which is all about APUs Accelerated Processing Units.
An APU is a single or multi-core CPU, memory controller and GPGPU all on the same die.

The first APU was released to the PC market in 2011
Jaguar was announced by AMD in 2013 before PlayStation Meeting.
APU are intended for low powered laptops or mainstream PCs, not intended for High End gaming PCs or Enthusiasts.

PS4 will use a Octo-Core variant of Jaguar which by the looks of it is just the laptop/desktop version with double the cores and cache.

Anyone comparing the Octo-Core Jagaur to Piledriver or IvyBridge/Haswell would be a fool.

The GPU based on the 2 TFLOP/s will be around HD 7850
800MHz
1024 Unified Shaders
32 Texture Mapping Units
16 Render Output Units

8GB of GDDR5 at 5.5GHz
Before everyone is like how you know its 5.5GHz, WORK IT OUT.
At the press conference they claimed the PS4 has 176GB/s Bandwidth
When I seen this I instantly thought only achievable with a 256bit interface or greater.

I did 256 divided by 8 multiplied by 6 and got 192, then I multiplied it by 5.5 instead of 6 and got the magic 176 :)

5.5 multiplied by 256 divided by 8 = 176
5.5GHz multiplied by 256bit interface divided by 8 = 176GB/s

[kewlkat007]

The Ps4 now less exciting....sighs:

[ephoenix6]

angry nerd is angry