200°

Why gamers would benefit if Sony and Microsoft dropped used games

Digitally Downloaded writes: "But the simple reality is that the second hand games market is a problem, and Sony and Microsoft would be wise to stamp it out. Long term, it would ultimately benefit us as gamers, too."

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digitallydownloaded.net
NYC_Gamer4094d ago (Edited 4094d ago )

How does blocking used software benefit customers?the person bought the physical copy and should be able to sell/trade in the product as wants..It also means that we could no longer borrow games from our friends&family members.I'm okay with not being able to trade/buy/sell digital software but it's a whole different story when it comes to hard copy...

MattS4094d ago

You'll get more and better quality games as publishers don't have to compete with their own games.

jimbobwahey4094d ago

Ahahahahahaha. Get a load of this guy and how naive he is!

If you honestly think publishers would make better quality games if there was no used market you're completely and utterly delusional.

Do you know what would really happen? We'd actually see worse games. If they knew customers could not sell their games on after buying them, and there was no threat from the used market, publishers would start putting less and less effort into games. More bugs and glitches from less strict QA, even more of a heavy focus on DLC (because they know people can't sell their games) and lower quality all round.

As we've seen from this console generation, publishers will do absolutely anything that they can to screw over their customers. To see some idiot actually try to defend the disappearance of the used game market is utterly depressing, because I had faith that people weren't that foolish.

Kamikaze1354094d ago

That's true. Gamestop has been around for quite some time and their primary income comes from used games. Imagine taking that piece of the pie away from Gamestop? I'm sure publishers would get a lot more money coming in. More money = more games.

DragonKnight4094d ago

The problem isn't used games. Even without specialty stores, the used market exists online through eBay, craigslist, kijiji, etc... People will always look for the better deal, it's up to the publishers to provide actual value for the dollar because people are willing to spend more money as long as they are getting their money's worth. All of us could write up lists of $60 games that should not have been $60 for what they offered, and that's on the publishers, not the users.

Then you have these publishers making deals with stores like Best Buy, Gamestop, or Wal-Mart trying to get people to pre-order games when the stores like Gamestop are the biggest problem for publisher bottom lines.

Removing the used game market will not bring forth higher quality games. What will in fact happen is developers will know that there's nothing for the consumer to do if they don't like a game they bought but to throw it out, so they can easily phone in the development. This will be responded to by a fundamental shift in buying practices by the general user base, and developers and publishers will lose a lot of money.

Guaranteed there wouldn't be any price drops either. What would be the point? It would be a basic violation of consumer rights to be rid of the used game market.

da_2pacalypse4094d ago

that's a hunk of bologna!

I wish publishers would realize that I can afford half of the games I get day1 because I'm able to take advantage of trade promotions and pay off my preorder with a traded in game.

If they take out used game sales, I would buy a larger portion of my games later down the line... and I know I'm not the only one!

theBAWSE4094d ago (Edited 4094d ago )

Anyone who thinks used games are a problem is crazy just as it is paying to play a game 'you have bought at full price which is online capable for a machine you have already bought connected to a broadband you already pay monthly for' ONLINE!!!

....simple answer as with the example I have just given why companies hate used games?.......GREED

yeahokchief4094d ago

Dunno why he has so many disagrees.

Get rid of the greedy middle man parasite Gamestop.

You should be able to give your copy or sell it to someone else, but it should be illegal for there to be COMPANIES to profit off OTHER PEOPLE'S WORK.

They are screwing customers and creators of the games. They are a problem.

1. Publishers make more money to put more of that money into the games

2. New IPs are less of a risk because more people will be actually buying the games instead of waiting to find out what everyone else says about them and then buying a used copy

3. Less content has to be packaged separately into DLC since profits off the actual game are 100%. Not to say that there still won't be pricey dlc, but at least they dont need to use it so much as a tactic to get money for their work.

I could go on, but why bother. Get rid of Gamestop next gen!!

jmac534094d ago

I agree with dragonknight. I would buy a lot less games and really have to research which games are worth my money. Microsoft and Sony will sees their attach rates plummet if they implement this tech. Both companies really need to wait until consoles are digital download only which will probably be the generation after and this used game problem will work itself out. It would be a mistake to force it on us now.

nukeitall4094d ago

Blocking used physical games sales is taking away your rights, reducing competition and making publishers richer.

I don't see that as positive at all. In fact, it very much mirrors business software where you buy a volume license, get a lock in, can't resell it, and have to pay exorbitant prices for it.

3-4-54094d ago

no. They will just pocket more money.

jmc88884093d ago (Edited 4093d ago )

No it doesn't. Quality isn't determined by amount of revenue.

Good games that are well made are better games.

Taking away used game sales will not effect this one bit.

Money doesn't equal this. Same thing in hollywood. Bigger budgets doesn't mean more sales or a better movie. Or else Waterworld would have been the best movie of the 90's.

There's also no guarantee the budgets would go up any faster than they are already if used game sales were removed.

Why can't people think anymore? Teaching for tests apparently. Except every correct answer is 'none of the above'.

Whether a game is good or not is determined by those that make the game, not where it sits on the shelf opened or wrapped.

That just effects how much money is returned to the shareholder on wall street as they decide whether or not to sell the stock and open a short position.

rainslacker4093d ago

You know the irony, the better games aren't the ones getting turned in right away(within a week according to the article) for the 2nd hand market, at least not in sufficient quantity to make that big a difference on bottom line sales. They command a high trade in price even from GameStop because people want to keep them and play them.

This article made a lot of assumptions, namely in the prices go down because of the used games market. That is completely untrue. Games go down in price because sales aren't as predicted, and retailers and publishers want to push out what product is already sent out in order to possibly sell more. Also newer titles on sale tend to sell better than older titles on sale.

Also, if the only option for games is the new market, you can expect them to stay higher longer, which according to your article is what you want.

I'm all for publishers and developers making their due, but I am more for consumer rights and advocacy. In the end, the consumers should come first, and it's up to publishers to find that happy medium where the consumer is willing to support them. The first step in doing that is making games that people want to play and keep longer. The 2nd hand market has nothing to do with game quality, it never has, and it never will.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 4093d ago
aceitman4094d ago

If any of them do this I won't buy either of the consoles

delboy4094d ago

But they will do this, and you will buy it,stop lying yourself.
I remember reading same story's on the net for dlc, online passes, and drm pc games.
The truth is that there are millions of people that have no problems with any of these things mentioned.

4094d ago Replies(3)
showtimefolks4094d ago

i am against this but you would be naive to think publishers won't find another way or making some of that money from used game market back

used games sales is a huge issue first of all accept that 100%, and don't give me this crap about well i buy games so i should be able to trade. Issue isn't you its the people will will pay gamestop 54.99 for a used copy than extra 5 for a game that was just released to its developer/publisher.

i don't believe this gen anyone will block used games sales but you better believe there will be more online and offline passes too. Kingdom of Amular had a Single player pass in a way where if you buy the game used you won't be able to get the single player missions unless you pay $9.99

expect online passes to go to $14.99
expect many AAA games to have single player content blocked codes.

gamers only see their side and compare gaming to used car or music industry when its not the same. buy most of the games new even if you are buying a year after release.

and by year 2020 when new consoles are in the market expect a 100% digital only

see both sides of the coin before you decide who is right or wrong

QD said heavy rain was sold about 2 million but than there was an extra million or so who bought the game used to play. so wouldn't sony be happier if game actually sold 3 million? would QD get a bigger budget for their next game?

jmc88884093d ago

People forget though that already in Germany there are gov't officials sniffing around Steam and forcing them to allow used game sales or trades.

So while 'gamestop' might be screwed, the overall practice of selling games is not going to go away just because of digital games.

Eventually it might even allow for trading games, though I expect a period where digital only game systems might not have this feature that first generation.

Though at 34, I haven't traded a game to a friend in decades. Was a big thing with NES/SNES, so I expect kids and to some extent through college for it to be a big issue. But for anyone reading this, it probably won't be, because by the time it happens, you all should be out of college.

soultecc4094d ago

whoever disagreed with you are complete braindead morons

badz1494094d ago

but I do occasionally too bought them used when I found a good deal here and there. so...it's a nice way to save money sometimes.

but blocking used games also means blocking me from sharing games with friends, right? so...HELL NO! if they are still gonna do it, let Microsoft do it and Sony...you just stay out of it for now, damn it!

Veneno4094d ago

Exactly. It would be complete retardedness iF BOTH companies blocked games. The one that doesnt wins the console race as soon as it starts.

Dont ever listen to any idiot journalist that supports this shit. They get free review games.

Flavor4094d ago

THQ produced triple-A single player games like Darksiders. They are now bankrupt.

Oh_Yeah4094d ago (Edited 4094d ago )

If blocking used games means lower prices, I'd gladly accept it if the price was cut in half to say 30$ for a new AAA game. After all you can't sell it, lend it, trade it, etc.. So I think 30$ sounds about right.

matchu_peechu4093d ago

The fact that they are eliminating used games is good! They are eliminating competition WITH THEMSELVES. Although consumers don't like this idea since they have to pay more out of their pockets, they will get a better return on their investment since buying new games will bring in more profit for producers, which will in turn lead to better quality games in the future (we'd hope)

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 4093d ago
4lc4pon34094d ago

i dont even care if they block used games. ill buy both consoles anyways. 65.00 for a game is not that expensive unless your jobless or just poor. Plus gamestop is trash good riddance

jimbobwahey4094d ago

Since you seem quite happy to bend over for anyone and throw your cash around like a clueless buffoon (or is it your parents money?), would you mind giving me $50?

No big deal right? I mean you're not poor are you, so you might as well hand it over.

4lc4pon34094d ago

i dont have parents and its my money. I dont have some low budget job. It has nothing to do with bending over.

If you want $50.00 maybe you should get a job or a real job

Soldierone4094d ago

65 isn't, but 130 is. 260 is. The problem isn't people not buying games at all, its people not being able to buy more than one game a month.

"AAA" releases have lineups of games with 3 or 4 games A MONTH, you can't buy them all....

suicidalblues4094d ago

I just bought heavenly sword for 7 bucks used. Care to explain to me how banning used games would've benefited me? I guess I could've bought it new from Amazon for around a hundred bucks, I mean I'm not jobless....

DragonKnight4094d ago

I have a job and I still want your money. Clearly your responsibilities are at an absolute minimum which would explain your foolish attitude towards a price hike for games. Some people have things like families and grown up expenses to take care of. We can't all evade the tax man Mr. Capone. How's your syphilis doing?

CyberCam4094d ago (Edited 4094d ago )

LOL! Good one DK... Maybe one day he'll grow up and have a family with responsibilities!

I make 6 figures a year and I still struggle with the cost of gaming purchases, after shelling out money for cost of living, supporting a family's needs, plus paying for one child's in University and another going in 5 years time.

I've seriously cut down on my gaming habit to the point where I seem to only game on PC's using Steam (for the thrifty gamer). Paying 1/4 of the price of a AAA game, with a little patience, which goes a long way on the pocket book.

Plus, instead of me purchasing only one copy I can purchase 4, for my LAN at the cost of 1 console copy.

Games seem to be better on the PC because of the modding community. They fix things that developers seem to give up on, a perfect example is Far Cry 3, the PC & console version are vastly different because of the modding community.

squarecircle4094d ago

You're comment was; ignorant, demeaning, selfish, careless and oblivious. Congratulations.

Enjoy your job while it lasts in this decaying economy.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 4094d ago
deadfrag4094d ago (Edited 4094d ago )

Capitalism sucks ass!People must have the choise in there hands; from the moment i buy a game that product is mine to resell or do what the fuck i would want to do;i pay for it!Not everyone is rich and $60 or £39,99 or 69.99€ for a game its very expensive in my view!

Megaton4094d ago

What is the president of EA writing for digitallydownload.net?

Funky Town_TX4094d ago

Some people just don't get it. All games should not be $60 when they release. I only buy AAA games with lots of replay value for $60. Some dev/pub should be ashamed for charging $60 for a game. If we take game stop out of the equation then the pub makes more money and the games should go down in price, and we should get better games.

Soldierone4094d ago

Games should be 40-50. 50 for the games we know will sell, and sell well, and 40 dollars for the games that want any sales around those big titles.

C-Thunder4094d ago

Yeah, if you remove the cost of retail, they could lower prices. Of course, they could just leave the prices the same. Look at dlc, how often do those prices drop? Never or rarely and when they do its usually for a limited time. Why would anyone think that would change now? I find it funny people rag on places like GameStop for trying to make money while giving people a deal (maybe not the best but still something) but are fine with Microsoft and whatever unnamed publishers that are supporting this move monopolizing your options and hoping they'll be generous and lower prices.

Soldierone4094d ago

"If they remove retail"

Then why are games still 60 dollars on PSN and Xbox Live, heck even the publisher's own stores (Origin) sell the games at full price with taxes now. These same stores will keep selling the game for full price (with the exception of oddball sales) years down the road when that same game is maybe 20 bucks at retail....

You can't blame retail, its the publishers that wanted the price point and wont change it. They wanted it because "it was too much to create a game" Yet we get rehashed games every year using the same engines and sometimes the same assets.

CyberCam4094d ago (Edited 4094d ago )

The argument of games being too expensive to develop is a bit misleading... usually about 60% of the cost goes to advertising. I just can't understand that COD keeps costing 100 mil to make when all it is, is a new coat of paint on the old wall. You can't tell me that they paid their devs 50 mil for 2 years of work.

He's some basic math;

Let's say that have 100 devs at say $100,000/yr (give or take some make more, some make less)

That's around $10,000,000 give or take a few $100,000.

For 2 years that around $20-$30 million, and they already have the all equipment (dev kits etc.) paid for.

Where's does the other $70-$50 million go?

Funky Town_TX4094d ago

I don't mind downloaded games from PSN or Xbox Live, but I don't want to pay $60 for a DL game that I can't trade in or share with a friend when I'm done playing it. Give me a new DL game for $40 and I just may DL more games.

Show all comments (80)
260°

Microsoft Seemingly Closes Bethesda France

As part of its plans to cut 1,900 jobs, Microsoft has reportedly shut down operations at Bethesda France, letting go roughly 15 people

Read Full Story >>
insider-gaming.com
Hereandthere14h ago

Microsoft should have left them stay 3rd party

GamerRN11h ago

If they are let go, they can be whatever they want. They ARE 3rd party now... 🤦

Barlos9h ago

Yeah, they're also jobless.

GamerRN2h ago

They can form a company if they want, they are just as jobless as if "Microsoft had left them as 3rd party".

peppeaccardo4h ago

"MIcrosoft leaves Bethesda do what they know how to do best" ... close! Oh the irony ....
(Citation from a week old article)

ChasterMies1m ago

I think Microsoft and other game publishers are letting people go because they think ai will replace them. Doesn’t matter how much profit they make. They were always going to be let go.

PassNextquestion13h ago(Edited 13h ago)

Bethesda France was made up of roughly 15 people... they couldn't of being doing much

Bethesda France mainly did publishing and marketing within the region

blacktiger11h ago

that's a shame for you to say that, i'm sure Elite loves hearing what you just said.

Profchaos13h ago(Edited 13h ago)

Bethesda France focused on publishing and marketing in the region. And 15 people lost their jobs as part of the closure.

I wonder if this is part of Microsoft's strategy to abandoned physical media or possibly gamepass advertising makes their roles redundant you don't need to market a game as hard when the majority of players get the game as part of a sub which already promoted upcoming games

Tacoboto13h ago

It's France too, there's a high likelihood only 1-2 people on the team even had an Xbox.

Profchaos13h ago

Possibly guven all the leaks we know the Xbox brand is really struggling in the region.

Yi-Long10h ago

Well, if your consoles and games are barely found in any stores any more, of course you're gonna struggle finding consumers ...

XiNatsuDragnel12h ago

Tbh Microsoft I think Bethesda being 3rd party same with Activision would probably more competitive than thus scenario imo

Profchaos10h ago(Edited 10h ago)

I think it would have been better for all parties really especially gamers

TheColbertinator11h ago

The recently purchased Activision French offices might take over all the licensing and marketing for Microsoft in France from now on.

Show all comments (18)
130°

Sony Could Increase Your Game's Difficulty If It Sees You Complain About It

Sony has recently published a new patent that wants to dynamically handle the games' difficulty and gameplay based on the player's emotions.

jznrpg15h ago

This is something I might use. Sometimes I play some good games but they don’t have difficulty option and are a little too easy.

Profchaos14h ago

Souls games will be like that players struggling make it harder

PassNextquestion13h ago(Edited 13h ago)

I think if used correctly it could work well

jambola9h ago

cool idea
cool idea for horror games especially
the way it's explained here sounds like it could never be forced hopefully, so that's ok with me

Show all comments (7)
280°

Xbox's Preservation Step Sets A Much-Needed Example, Especially For Nintendo

Hanzla from eXputer inquires: "If Xbox can care about preserving its games and legacy, what exactly is wrong with Nintendo, trying to kill game preservation single-handedly?"

purple10111d ago

Ahh yes the good old game preservation of saving all your games to a removable hhd on the Xbox 360, taking it round your mates house, setting up multiple tvs to
Be met with “save data corrupted, please re download”

Or how about removing 360 games
From the store
, download them now or else, and, better hope to god that save data doesn’t corrupt, or it’s lost for ever

Nice one ☝️

Zeref11d ago

It's better than what Nintendo and Playstation is doing. It might not be perfect but at least they are TRYING. Unlike the others.

DarXyde11d ago

Trying? Take off the blinders for a moment, mate.

1. A failure to preserve games is just that: a failure to preserve games. Don't try to sugarcoat it: NO ONE is doing it properly. Better than awful is nothing to write home about.

2. At the time of this comment, isn't it the case that you need an internet connection to play Xbox games even if you buy physical discs that are hardly in circulation anymore? I don't have a Series X and I can't verify, but I think that is correct. I'm fairly certain you can at least play PS5 games at version 1.0 (not much of a win really when many games require day one patches). I think Microsoft's all digital, licensing approach is by far more aggressive than anyone else's. They really try to push you to game pass where you lose your entire library by umm.... Skipping a month of payments.

I don't think anyone is doing it right whatsoever. Don't get me started on Nintendo, who goes after anyone looking to preserve their games better than they ever would with extreme litigation.

Don't be a simp for any of these companies. Get it together.

PhillyDonJawn11d ago (Edited 11d ago )

@DarX never speak on Xbox again. You lost all credibility with your internet connection comment. Smh you have 0 clue and misinformed yet speaking on something you don't no squat about.

Einhander197211d ago

What has Sony done exactly? You guys keep deflecting to Sony but I am not actually seeing any results, and ai am certain nothing that you can come up with even comes close to what Microsoft has done and what they have tried and failed to do, like tie all your disks to your account on xbone.

Microsoft removed their whole indie section when they moved to the xbone because they were going to only allow games on the service that came from a publisher, id@xbox started after xbone launched and it only exists because Sony embraced indie and Microsoft was forced to cancel their plans and reverse course.

And every single game that was part of games for windows live including disk games (I have gta 4 on disk that won't work) so hundreds of games that use that DRM no longer work unless the company themselves patched it out which of course very few did.

MrBaskerville10d ago

Not trying. Tried. they killed of the backcomp program years ago. They set something up again, but sounds like it's more of an attempt to save the current library on whatever they are planning next. With luck they save everything and more, but let's see. I could see them killing off parts of the OG xbox and 360 libraries. Can't imagine that they would allow us to play Forza 5-7 in the future.

With that said, I do like what they've done and really wish they could have done more.

shinoff218310d ago

Zeref

So killing off physical media is trying what exactly. Ms don't really give a fk if you think they do your kidding yourself.

Profchaos10d ago

They are not trying this team is established for forward compatability the team is. It interested in preserving Xbox or 360 games.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 10d ago
isarai11d ago

Is that why Hellblade 2 is digital only?

Zeref11d ago

Just because it's digital only doesn't mean you can't preserve it. Just put it on an external and you have the exact same functionality of what a disc does.

MrNinosan11d ago

Guess you're trolling, but if you actually think that's how it works, I'd recommend buying some braincells.

mkis00710d ago (Edited 10d ago )

Volitile vs nonvolitile data. A disc will not corrupt either. A drive can be corrupted.

Einhander197211d ago

This is just a scammy PR move to distract from the fact they are going digital only and trying to push streaming and subscriptions only.

No gaming company has pushed harder to remove ownership than Microsoft.

Without discs there is no preservation, preservation can't be done by the rights holders it can only be done by the consumers, anything else is a lie.

11d ago Replies(3)
Einhander197211d ago

Anyone remember xblig which Microsoft removed their whole 360 indie section removing hundreds of games from people?

11d ago
11d ago
Zeref11d ago

Do you know you can put your games on an external and preserve them that way? There are no benefits to discs. ZERO. Idk why some of you are still obsessed with them.

DarXyde11d ago

Because games like Persona 5 exist. It's STILL V1.00. On Playstation, that's a win because 1.00 is installed on the disc—no need to download anything.

If a game does not require any updates, it's all on the disc.

Extremely low bar in the modern era, of course. It's not much of a win by any stretch.

But for now, physical media does have a purpose, at least on Playstation.

Einhander197211d ago

That is factually not how game licensing works, try plugging your hard drive into someone else xbox, It's not going to work, and it won't work if the licensing servers ever go down.

Einhander197211d ago

Anyone remember games for windows live.

I have around a dozen games, some on Steam itself that will not work because Microsoft shut off the licensing servers.

BehindTheRows11d ago (Edited 11d ago )

I do. I STILL have games (Gears of War being the big one) I cannot access because Games for Windows LIVE is total garbage and no one has held Microsoft accountable.

Zeref10d ago (Edited 10d ago )

You don't have an Xbox apparently. Because you can 100 percent plug in your external and play games from it on any Xbox console lol. You just have to be logged in to prove ownership.

Chevalier10d ago

"You don't have an Xbox apparently. Because you can 100 percent plug in your external and play games from it on any Xbox console lol. You just have to be logged in to prove ownership."

Damn how many times do people got to explain your idiocy to you? You can take a copy of Persona 5 like someone used as an example and play that game on ANY console WITHOUT logging in which means I can lend the game to a friend without internet and they can play my game. Can you lend your hard drive to anyone without logging in for them to play? NOPE. That is a huge difference and if you think otherwise then sorry you're an idiot.

Tacoboto10d ago

"No gaming company has pushed harder to remove ownership than Microsoft."

Ubisoft is literally erasing games people bought from their libraries... My PS1-3 discs are useless on modern hardware. Nintendo's re-published and resold almost their entire Wii U library, and the eShop is completely dead with no BC mechanism in the Switch software. Microsoft publishes everything they make today day one on Steam and Xbox/Windows. Sony only brings to PC the titles they think you might want some years later and Nintendo won't even design a functional long-lasting joystick.

You're absolutely trolling and not serious if you think Microsoft today is the worst offender.

shinoff218310d ago

Yay steam

Not everyone fks with computers though. The disc is still the best way as a console player. Period.

Tacoboto10d ago

How do Sony and Nintendo feel about these discs from 2001-2013?

Don't be stupid, you know Xbox is the best at this today.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 10d ago
Hofstaderman11d ago

Nobody wants this. Sales or the lack of it in the case of XBOX is very telling. I wonder how the adorably all digital series X will fare. Adorably dismal perhaps?

crazyCoconuts11d ago

Only time will tell, but for from someone like me suspecting that Xbox is trying to gracefully exit the console market, that "forward compatibility" team is trying to get Xbox games playing on Windows PCs. I mean, it's nice that they're not planning on exiting with a "enjoy your games while the hardware still works" message, so that's nice. They still have a brand to protect via Microsoft so probably feel obligated to have a better exit strategy.

Xeofate10d ago (Edited 10d ago )

That is not their plan, their plan is to transfer users accounts to the cloud.

Phil Spencer himself said as much a few months back, plans could have changed but I think people are reading way too much into one statement where Phil said he would allow Epic on xbox because he wants to be able to sell xbox games directly on other platforms. Aka, instead of selling Sea of Thives through PSN he wants to have an xbox store to sell his games on PlayStation without giving PlayStation any money.

Again, it's extremely unlikely that Phil plans to put PC on xbox and licensing would prevent them from just giving out other publishers games purchased on xbox copies of thier games on PC, Microsoft does not own their games.

crazyCoconuts10d ago

The thing that doesn't align with the cloud strategy is the giving up on exclusives. You'd still need strong exclusives for cloud streaming - it's still a "platform" , just with a lower upfront hardware investment. I feel like they've learned what PS learned with PSNow long ago. We're not ready to stream games and it's only gonna lose them money to try at this point

FinalFantasyFanatic10d ago

I would love that, I'd buy up some of the Xbox games if they could run on PC, like the Rare Replay, Lost Odyssey and Dead or Alive Ultimate, probably a pipe dream though.

Show all comments (43)