What's up with the bad approvals on this site lately?

N4G has its share of problems that would take an entire blog post to write out. Stuff like how easy it is to lose a bubble, but how nearly impossible it is to gain one, or the seemingly random nature at which some comments are incorrectly flagged in some fashion. Today is a day I noticed a problem I'm sure many of you have noticed a lot already.

That being that there are submissions that fail the most basic of site rules being allowed to pass through the approval process filled with flaws, some even being approved by a single mod. You can tell it's a mod since only one person approved the story and there is a big number 10 beside the approval.

Today I noticed a submission where the title was completely wrong. It was for a game called Rogue Star but the submission said Rogue Galaxy. Naturally, since there are many fans of the Level 5 PS2 JRPG Rogue Galaxy, there were people who thought that we'd be hearing some news about Rogue Galaxy only to be met with disappointment to find out that Rogue Star is just an iOS game with no relation to Rogue Galaxy at all. This story made it through the approval process without one single person mentioning that misleading title, and it wasn't fixed until AFTER it was approved and I myself actually read the article to see that it had nothing to do with Rogue Galaxy and then reported the incorrect title myself.

Just now I saw another submission that passed through that was literally someone's blog. Admittedly, it was the blog of a game designer so I suppose there is a relation, but the blog was essentially a "my day at work" thing and not exactly riveting gaming news. In the posting guidelines, blogs are specifically mentioned as something to be avoided and yet a blog made it through. Are people not actually reading these things?

I know first hand that there is a "boosting" issue on this site, and that's to be expected and can't always be prevented right away, but I mean come on people. How many times are there complaints about the kind of content that makes it through on this site? Too many to count. It will keep happening if you don't have some kind of standard for approving stories. These kinds of things merely add to the already many problems on this site and if you're not prepared to at least help be a part of the solution, then you shouldn't really complain about the problems.

We've seen the spam getting worse too. And I don't mean the bots that post in the comment section. I mean the submissions that have "like our facebook page" in the description. This is supposed to be News 4 Gamers, not Adspace 4 Companies or Blogs 4 Anyone.

[LostDjinn]

The site has some problems. Most of which are caused by particular users (the ones who create multiple accounts to spam report submissions, artificially inflate/deflate bubble counts, spam approve submissions and just generally ruin things for legitimate users) called douches. They've always been part of the site. The only way for you deal with them is with an effort on your part. This is a good start but you need to call them out every time you see the offending behavior.

As for advise on getting bubbles back, sleep with a Mod.

I recommend Smokey. He's not fussy.

[thorstein]

This. For instance. When, a site, like destructoid, publish a piece they want it posted here, and want it to get hits, so they submit it then approve it en masse with the use of the various morons over at that site. The thing is there are far more users here than over there. So, certainly this happens quite a bit.

They have also attacked me en masse because I called out one of their superfat "journos" But, this, like most things seems to ebb and flow with the times. Some of these people move on and forget about things here. It is unfortunate!

[r21]

I wish i had my 3rd bubble back. I've never trolled or pissed anyone off here and yet I lost it.

[SnakeCQC]

me too :(

[Root]

Did you ask about it....let me guess did they give you the copied and pasted speech about how the bubble system works....how peoples votes when they do it out of spite can mark you down overall in time when you haven't done anything thus proving how the bubble system is broken. It's funny because despite knowing this themselfs they won't do anything about it, hell some mods don't do it because they arn't "allowed" apparently......even though they are mods.

Hell I was banned from commenting for 4 days because I was defending myself from a troll who attacked me first. My first time getting a ban and it was for FOUR days and I lost a bubble....the actual troll, well nothing happened to him. I complained and nothing was done about it, they ignored me, however cgoodno let me off with the last day on my ban but by then it wasn't really worth it, my time was nearly up anyway

[Christopher]

Really, "Root"?

You took an argument from one submission to another and were completely off topic in doing so. And, to finish it off, you called them an immature troll.

http://n4g.com/news/1146772...

The level of restriction was because you didn't just 'harmlessly make a trollish comment' but hunted someone down to criticize and talk about something way off topic. And even then, I cut it short when I didn't have to. And it was for 3 days, not 4.

We sometimes do give bubbles back. I normally do it for people who curse lightly as I mark the post down and they would have lost a bubble from it. But we don't just give them back because we don't like the bubble system. Most of the people asking for bubbles back tend to deserve losing them in the first place.

Furthermore, with the amount of work the mods do for free, you think they have all the time in the world to find and right all the wrongs on this site? Heck, I spend half my day just responding to complaints/questions/issues. That's not even moderating comments, submissions, forums, and more.

The system isn't perfect, but that doesn't mean we are supposed to fix all its issue. We have an obligation to follow the rules as well, not just write our own ones where we see fit.

@below:

"Root" we know this isn't your first offense. We're just tired of dealing with all of your accounts. I mean, it's not like you're not giving it away with a 45d account that is so familiar with everything on the site.

And, honestly, 'defense' is never an answer for calling people names, being off topic, trolling, or the like. You somehow think that the appropriate response to be trolled or attacked is to do the same thing? It's not. Did you learn from this? No, instead you blame us and others for your inability to follow the rules.

Cue "I don't know what you're talking about, I've never had a ton of dupe accounts that have been banned in the past using proxies to get around it a ton of times and coming back and blaming others for all of my issues."

[Root]

@cgoodno

Fine it was 3 then...sorry but I was thinking on the spot...can't remember every small detail

Anyway I don't care what I said I was defending myself, if you replied to my messages, reports and whatever else I said about that user then I wouldn't have to get p****** off and go onto another article after that troll blocked me. I was merely just finishing off the argument HE STARTED so he wouldn't get the last laugh. I'm not giving a troll the last laugh

I don't see why you can't defend yourself on here.

He was an immature troll, that's the point. It's not like I started the argument myself to an innocent user who did nothing wrong and called him it....this guy actually was, I was basically stating a fact and you shouldn't be marked down for calling someone out.

You should of went "Why did he call him that" <looks at users comment history> "Oh god, he is a little immature and is trolling, guess Root is kind of right" then you could of banned him or told him off.

I was more ticked off though that you didn't even bother to use the Warning system next to the restrictions. It was my first offence and I got a bubble removed AND 3 days restricted....that isn't fair, not at all.

Look at how many time Mika trolls, she's always posting the next day or two yet I get that done to me

"Furthermore, with the amount of work the mods do for free, you think they have all the time in the world to find and right all the wrongs on this site? "

As I've said below, ask more people to be mods. Ask Pozzle, Alpha, Mezzo etc. If it actually is optional then you can give people jobs to do to make it easier on yourself and other mods. More mods...less to do

[thorstein]

I want to go off topic too! I got a bubble back because I had lost it for "Spam" when I listed in the comments section the top 10 list of a site that forced you to click to see each of the ten.

I had it explained to me why this was a violation and replied that I completely agree with the mods here, but explained that I am hardly a troll so could I please have my bubble back. They gave it to me with a bit of a probation (understandable). During that probation I actually was bubbled up a few times, so, it isn't always cut and dry!

[MikeMyers]

Why am I not surprised Root has a history here. The guy floods the forums with endless comments and then acts like the victim. Glad to know how persistent he is too with having multiple accounts as well. It's obvious some people want to be heard above everyone else and will do everything in their power to get attention.

[Montrealien]

blah blah blah, bad subs is far from a new thing here.

[Root]

This site has problems but despite concerning them for ages no improvements are ever done

I mean how long have been complained about the bubble system for example.

I just feel the mods don't give a crap at time

How about N4G goes through a revamp and gets rid of the bubble system but hires more mods

One or two mods for the submissions
One or two for the tickets
Maybe three or four for the articles

When you become a mod you do it in your own time, least then with more mods, and I mean mods who are actually going to treat people with respect and not be one sided, will give the other mods on here Columbo/Cgoodno for example more time to spend in their personal lifes.

"As for advise on getting bubbles back, sleep with a Mod."

Kind of pointless in a way

One minute it's

"We don't get involved, it's a community"

When you try to plead with them that the bubble system is broke and your comment dosent match what you were bubbled down with then the next it's

"Yeah we did that your comment"

It feels they make the "guidelines" up when ever they feel like it most of the time since mods tell you different things. I feel each mod should act independently, if they feel your in the right then let them help you....I would if I was a mod, hell I would if I was asked, don't do much round here anyway

Even when they are in the wrong and you've done nothing wrong yourself they still wouldn't give you your bubbles back. I mean is it that hard to add a bubble to a users account, they make it seem they have have to travel to Mordor or something to do it

[Valenka]

People care more about getting their score up by blindly approving submissions left and right, opposed to filtering submissions to ensure legitimate quality. It's a shame, really.

[Cam977]

"Sleep" with a mod?

[DragonKnight]

LostDjinn: LOL! When it comes to my bubbles, the only time it bothers me if I lose them is why, not that I lost it. It's fine to gain or lose bubbles, but it's ridiculous how easily one can lose them and for the most inappropriate reasons. I've seen legitimate, on topic posts get flagged as Spam. That's just ridiculous. And this blog is more about people not paying attention to what they approve so that the kind of stuff that gets through is the kind of stuff we always see people complaining about. You don't like flamebait? Why approve it? You don't like 2 line articles and blogs? Report them. But when you see a mod approve a story that has a mistake in the title, then you know there's definitely something wrong.

Valenka: I don't even know why people care about their score. I certainly don't and I've been here for about 7 years, maybe more.

[Bimkoblerutso]

The hard truth here is that mods are just people; people fully capable of exhibiting nauseating levels of bias and fanboyism (forgive me for using the word, but it applies) just like the rest of us. It's easy to see a borderline penalty going one way or the other because of one particular mod's bias toward the commenter or even just the position of a particular opinion that they may or may not have liked.

Unfortunately nowadays, the internet is so sensitive to "trolling" that there is literally no distinction between what is trolling and what is a simple contrary opinion. So you end up getting very, VERY muddy rules and regulations. It's just the way things have to be in a world in which people are unable to hear opposing opinions.

[Nineball2112]

DragonKnight,

Regarding this comment:

"I've seen legitimate, on topic posts get flagged as Spam."

Without going into detail, there are some users who continually create new accounts who have been banned. When that happens, when we address the situation, often times those comments made by those accounts are flagged as spam.

[DragonKnight]

Oh really? Well, the more you know. I had absolutely no idea that that's how it was dealt with.

[lex-1020]

Holy jebus. A respectful reply to someone correcting you? Did you forget this is the internet sir? :)

[pixelsword]

Lately?

At any rate, the main reason is that those who tried to complain about standards are banned from reporting bad news articles, point blank and period.

...and this is the result.

[Christopher]

No they aren't. People aren't banned for reporting bad articles. They're banned for not following the terms of use and it normally means offensive language, excessive trolling, or the inability to follow the submission guidelines after multiple restrictions.

OT: It's because the site has stagnated. Hopefully a future update will improve many things, get people more interested in the content rather than having it primarily handled by the people who create it in the first place. I think we're all kinda hoping the next site update will bring some new features and improve how things are around here. I know I'm hoping for it.

[InMyOpinion]

"It's because the site has stagnated. Hopefully a future update will improve many things."

Just curious, what do you think is the biggest flaw with the site at the moment?

[Christopher]

Geeze, the biggest?

From a moderator standpoint: multiple account control

From a comment maker standpoint: Bubble abuse

From a news reader standpoint: Plethora of unnecessary opinion pieces from anyone who can buy a domain name (a whole $10 expense!).

[lex-1020]

I'm not a mod so I don't have any idea if you can actually do this but can't you just ban an IP address?

I mean sites like gamefaqs use IP addresses to keep users from making multiple accounts and voting on their daily polls. Couldn't you do something like that and ban an IP address from making multiple accounts, if their a known offender?

[Christopher]

***I'm not a mod so I don't have any idea if you can actually do this but can't you just ban an IP address? ***

Sure. Do it all the time.

But here's what you don't know:

- School IPs and similar are shared so you're banning multiple people most of the time.

- The same issue comes if you ban IPs by region.

- Proxies can get a person a new IP easily.

No site has a solution that is based solely on IP banning. You have to have it based on other factors. Everyone has the same issues as N4G when it comes to the ability to get around IP bans.

Example: I've banned about 10 spammers in the last few days. Each of them using a different IP. Those spammers will be back on the site, if they aren't already, with a new one. I can't predetermine that one IP is tied to another. We could ban China, but they'd just use European or U.S. IPs. It's really that easy.

[mandf]

@cgoodno

Why do certain members running around with 6-8 bubbles trolling articles have that many bubbles and are not banned?

[Christopher]

***Why do certain members running around with 6-8 bubbles trolling articles have that many bubbles and are not banned?***

People say this all the time, but they never mention any specific people.

How about you mention and report these people and their trolls and then I'll answer the question. Otherwise, it's just people using hyperbole. Because, based on your question alone, my answer is either "I don't know because I don't see these trolls on the site" or "You may think they're trolls, but they're not."

[mandf]

@cgoodno

Fair enough. I didn't mention a name so as not to cause problems for myself in the future.

[pixelsword]

@ cgoodno:

I didn't say people are banned for reporting bad articles, I said that they are banned FROM reporting bad news articles.

That's a huge difference. :)

Plus I also said "those who TRIED to complain about standards ARE banned from reporting bad news articles", which denotes that the event(s) happened in the past, which is also why I typed the interjection:

"Lately?"

These events happened a while ago, I don't know if it was before you were a mod or not, or if that kind of thing still goes on or not, but it definitely happened in the past.

[Christopher]

***I didn't say people are banned for reporting bad articles, I said that they are banned FROM reporting bad news articles.***

Well, that makes no sense on a grammatical level. If you mean that people are banned because others make false reports against them, that is just not true. People don't get banned just because someone reports them. What you're essentially saying is that mods ban blindly, and that's just not true.

***Plus I also said "those who TRIED to complain about standards ARE banned from reporting bad news articles", which denotes that the event(s) happened in the past, which is also why I typed the interjection: ***

This is not true since 2009 at the least. I got it was in the past. Your use of 'from reporting' is the same as 'for reporting' which makes no sense if you are meaning to say something else here. That's where you are wrong grammatically.

***These events happened a while ago, I don't know if it was before you were a mod or not, or if that kind of thing still goes on or not, but it definitely happened in the past.***

So, we're debating 2007/2008 vs 2009 and beyond now?

I think if you're trying to argue the past, you need to get over it and move onto what we have now. There's nothing anyone can do about that, including prove it as valid or invalid.

@DK286K: Most of those aren't trolling, let alone close to it. You should realize that trolling doesn't mean sharing an opinion that differs from the article or believing in something stupid. Trolling is specifically saying something to deride others and/or elicit a negative response. We don't ban people for having stupid beliefs, we ban them for purposefully bothering other members and providing nothing constructive to the community.

@ "Root":

Both are typically voted up by the community and the mass majority of their comments are not trolls. Less troll votes than any random account, like say... Carl_Shocker. You know, just saying.

@DK286K below: I have no clue what you're talking about and I don't know why you think you know what I do when who does what as moderators is... anonymous...

I'm fine if you want to blame me for everything wrong with the site. That doesn't mean I believe it, though. You want to be petty and blame me. Cool. If it makes you feel better.

Also, I have no clue who you are. So, no clue about this 'targeting you or other user' thing. But, y'know, run with that. Much like "Root" above, you can blame me for your own issues.

[InMyOpinion]

@cgoodno - Thanks for good answers!

@DK286K - Not surprised it was a positive article about the 360 that got trolled to bits.
Funny thing to also note is that most of the trolls have more agrees than disagrees.

I'm surprised so many comments did not get marked for trolling.

[Root]

"Hopefully a future update will improve many things."

When though?...these things have been going on for ages. Surley Cat or whatever would of had something sorted out by now with some smart web designers to fix it.

"- School IPs and similar are shared so you're banning multiple people most of the time. "

That happened to me when I first joined, my mate was on it on his phone and I joined through the college and I was automatically banned...however Ninebal2112 fixed it for me and saw that I hadn't been on here before (again thanks for that if your reading).

***Why do certain members running around with 6-8 bubbles trolling articles have that many bubbles and are not banned?***

"People say this all the time, but they never mention any specific people."

Right I'll just say it

EvilDead360
LOGICWINS

That is all

[pixelsword]

@ cgoodno

"Well, that makes no sense on a grammatical level. If you mean that people are banned because others make false reports against them, that is just not true. People don't get banned just because someone reports them. What you're essentially saying is that mods ban blindly, and that's just not true."

Let me make this as simple as I can:

I first posted the sentence:

"At any rate, the main reason is that those who tried to complain about standards are banned from reporting bad news articles, point blank and period."

Which meant those who complained about standards were banned from reporting articles; maybe adding "bad' confused you, but that meant any article in general.

You responded about people banned for reporting bad articles and then you talked about people making false reports, neither of which could be implied from my original sentence.

My correction didn't have all of the original sentence because I though you merely misread the sentence, but I think you totally missed my point.

Secondly

"Your use of 'from reporting' is the same as 'for reporting' which makes no sense if you are meaning to say something else here. That's where you are wrong grammatically. "

No, it's from, I didn't get it mixed up, you just didn't understand my point. You can't use from and for interchangeably in any circumstance. My sentence is as follows if it was broken down (which I guess I have to do):

"At any rate, the main reason is that those who tried to complain about standards are banned from (the task of) reporting bad news articles, point blank and period."

"I think if you're trying to argue the past, you need to get over it and move onto what we have now. There's nothing anyone can do about that, including prove it as valid or invalid."

I never said I was over or not over it, I was just answering a question, of which involves delving into the past; answers tend to do that sometimes.

[mandf]

I have always felt when bloodmask stopped submitting articles things fell apart.

[jazzking2001]

aha
i know BM pretty well both on this site on via MSN
great guy
he left a few months if not yrs ago and he was a top submitter here

[GreenRanger]

The only thing that annoys me about N4G is the one-bubble trolls.
The N4G mods should find a different way to punish these trolls, because just flagging their comments doesn't do anything really.
I think that the punishment for those trolls (the ones with the obvious mental issues) should be a daily limit on comments, not just limited to one comment per submission.

[DragonKnight]

That wouldn't be feasible though. There is a definite bubble system abuse problem going on here, and reasonable people can be bubbled down to 1 very quickly so, it'd be a full time job figuring out who deserves the 1 bubble and who was debubbled maliciously.

[Christopher]

***The N4G mods should find a different way to punish these trolls, because just flagging their comments doesn't do anything really.***

Just to note, the mods and admins are not the people who can enact these changes. We just moderate and manage what we're given.

We've heard a lot of ideas over the years on how to improve the system. Some good, many just as good or worse as our current system. We love getting feedback, even if we disagree with them and debate the validity of the suggestions. We pass them onto the people who make the decisions and hope they listen to what the community has said.

[adorie]

They should bring back the open zone. I miss reading some of the stuff in there, back when I lurked.

[Speed-Racer]

I agree with you on that.

[Megaton]

Lately? And you've been here since 2007? This site's reputation is that of immaturity, trolling, and slop submissions. A reputation well-earned over the years.

[BitbyDeath]

Couple of suggestions -

1. Mods should have labels, it'll help determine who to contact if needed.

2. The disagree button, kinda not sure if it's really needed or if it just causes more issues. Agree button is worth keeping tho.

3. Bubble abuse. Would be great if the 1 bubble users were assessed more to see if they are actually trolling and if so banned.

4. Images, would be awesome if we could have images directly on the page. Make the place a bit more fun with Gifs and stuff... XD

PS. Hope your new update gets rid of the spam.

[Christopher]

1. Mods and admins are all contacted through the ticket system at http://n4g.com/tickets/

2. There is some validity to this. Kind of like how facebook and G+ have it. It would encourage more discussion for those that disagree. But, it could also encourage less constructive posting by people posting quite, oftentimes trollish, forms of disagreement.

3. We do eventually ban rampant trolls. There's a restriction scale that goes from 1 to 30 days. After that, the person is typically banned.

[BitbyDeath]

Thanks for the reply, is good to know

EDIT: What if only the members with 1 bubble were unable to hit disagree? ;-)

[BitbyDeath]

Or if you hit disagree then make it so you have to respond with something. Which still encourages discussion while discouraging random disagrees.

[Christopher]

I think at that point your idea of just getting rid of it would work better. There is a programming side of it where you have too many conditionals and are tying up unnecessary processing power (especially with database references) when you should simplify it.

So, I'd say either have disagrees as they are or get rid of them from that standpoint. Otherwise you'd notice a lot more issues with the site in general (load times, errors, and the like).

[matgrowcott]

@cgoodno

RE: Constructive posts - I think the disagree button already has a negative effect on constructive posts.

If you go against the grain of the site - even if you give fair reasoning and aren't impolite or trollish - you're more or less instantly shown to be in the minority, which gives those that reply to you the upper hand in the discussion, whatever the validity of what you're saying and what they're saying.

Without the disagree segment, you might get a few more trolls wanting to actually voice their opinion, and certainly the occasional useless post ("I disagree!"), but I can't help but think it might make it easier to discuss controversial topics as well. If nothing else, it'll make things seem less Us and Them.

EDIT: And keep in mind that those in the "majority" are sometimes just reacting based on their knee jerk reaction to a headline.

[Tetsujin]

I've been going to other sites lately for gaming news; I'm sick of the trolling (although some of it is funny), approved biased articles, opinion pieces that passes as facts, and off topic responses that negate the entire discussion. The other sites I go to have 0 tolerance for trolling and fanboyism, and mod out anything not related to the story itself.

Lately there's been a lot of debate about violence and video games which I feel is very important, and yet I rarely see any articles on N4G regarding any sort of coverage; yes I understand it's based on who submits and who checks the stories, yet they rarely ever get front page; but post something negative about PS3/360 and within an hour its 1000+ with at least 40+ comments, and it's front page for hours (up to a day almost).

I'll still come to N4G and I'm not saying I'm leaving 100%, I'm just passing along why I haven't been as active as of late, and hopefully some of what I put can be taken face value for future updates.

[Phil32]

I have decided to totally stop reading the comment sections on this site. The arrival of the Wii U and its failures (along with the Vita and I'm certain whatever next platform has its struggles) have just brought the worst in people. No, this isn't some "if they were trolling Microsoft, you wouldn't care" thing either.

I posted this elsewhere, but I'm going to censor myself more:

The fact of the matter is this site is nothing but the same low level trolling (I had "weak ass", but low level sounds better), rubbish fanboy pissing contests, and crap discussions that amount to "my company rules and yours doesn't/sucks."

I'm ashamed to be a gamer when I see every freaking discussion turn into fanboy arguments and mass trolling. We're supposed to love this hobby, yet most people here would rather play console wars than actual video games. Most of them are probably grown ass adults yet they behave like absolute children, and for what-- to say their electronic toy is better than someone else's?

I thought GameFAQs was bad in this regard, but on N4G it's even worse. You know when you're on a site and a positive comment about a system gets more disagrees than a negative comment, something is seriously, seriously wrong.

Forgive my total frustration, but I am at my wit's end. I want this hobby to be taken seriously, but knowing that there are so many gamers like the ones that make up the vocal majority of N4G (i.e. the trolls, the zealots), it makes that wish seem like a complete and utter impossibility.

[BitbyDeath]

Trolling is just someones opinion being delivered in the wrong way. You gotta rise above it and laugh it off.

I read your comments and you should not let it get to you. The feature is a bit silly, i'm sure even you can see that. Some are just having a laugh and others are trying to get rises from others.

Is how the world works, and it's best to just turn with it. Let the mods sort it out.

[Phil32]

You're absolutely right.

[Bladesfist]

I have decided it's best to try not to reason with some of the PS3 fanboys on this site (the ones who say "Next gen starts when sony says so" and that the "PS3 is the best selling console") as they just mass disagree any facts that could put there console in a bad light. It's best not to fight the swarm. I know Xbox fanboys can be just as bad but I do not see them disregarding facts all the time. In other words it seems easier to have a conversation with them. I would like a site which was more about discussion and less about how popular your opinion is. I think getting rid of the disagree button would be a good step towards this. The disagree button is an artificial way to get your opinion across and I believe the site would be a better place if people were having a discussion instead of panic disagreeing anything that they don't want to hear. However I am not sure how this would work with the bubble system.

Getting rid of the bubble system may cause more trouble however but I think it is possible if you keep the "Report" button.

Sorry for going off topic a little there but it seemed like the topic had changed after reading the comment section.

[Deadpool616]

It's nice to see a constructive blog that's trying to make the site better. I admit that I've made mistakes on the site due to my ignorance, but I'm definitely being more aware now.

[DW74]

Some things about the Internet simply cannot be regulated or programmed away. Douchebaggery is one of those things. You can try to control it, and limit it, but a person determined to be an asshole will always find a way through barricades and restrictions. I'm almost 39 years old, and have basically done what that Phil guy up there does: stop reading comment sections(on any site, not just here). At my age, it's just not worth the frustration; my opinion of humanity is already low enough as it is. I have set my N4G controls to limit stories with the "Strict" setting, and to not show one-bubble posters. I know that removes some of the good, legit posters, but it's all I can do.

The only thing that really makes a difference of any kind in this (very good) discussion is how one member can directly affect another member's ability to have a discussion with other folks via the bubble system. Self-regulation, and allowing people to gang up on some asshole can work, so long as a person is guaranteed to not be able to make multiple accounts. That's where things go South. One dude with 5-6 accounts, and his 6 or 7 like-minded buddies can down-bubble a guy they don't like in no time. That should not be.

As far as disagrees are concerned, I could give a rat's ass if some 16 year old graphics whore who looooooooves the 360 or PS3 his parents bought for him disagrees with me. ;)

[Sucitta]

I've been banned 3 times due to negative comments concerning the drive style of the Forza games.

I've only bad mouthed Forza 3 times, yet each and every time I was banned.

Now, I don't talk about Forza..

[lex-1020]

You just talked about Forza
Edit: Technically

[Captain Tuttle]

The bubble system is flawed but I was here before a bubble system (or even the open zone) and believe me, it's much better this way.

[Christopher]

Well, I'm going to use my last bubble to talk directly to DragonKnight.

You and I disagree on a lot of things, but we agree that we would love to see changes to improve the community and content here on N4G. I used to be a regular poster like everyone else and took the mod position because I wanted to help. It's not like I am making huge strides here every day, but I'm doing something bit by bit. It makes me feel better than just sitting on the sidelines and only worrying about the news and talking with others.

So, thank you for continuing to look for improvements, share your thoughts, talk about them, and understanding that we can always do better around here. The mods and admins hear you. We make many of the same complaints and suggestions. You're not alone. And it makes us feel a bit better that there are people in the community who want to see improvements without just complaining or heaping all the issues on one group of people's shoulders.

Also understand that a lot of the people on this site, even a few on this page, will share horror stories about this site. Remark how everything is just broken, nothing works, the mods are useless, the users are horrible and everyone needs to banned. (okay, bit of hyperbole there, but I hope you get my point) A lot of the times, these are the people we're trying to protect everyone from. People who use proxies and come back with duplicate accounts to the point where we just let their latest one go because, heck, it's better to know who is who rather than having to find and ban their next account among the many that get made each day. Don't just jump on the bandwagon of hatred that anyone spews. Don't think that just because someone makes a few comments that you strongly disagree with and might think is trolling that they aren't being reviewed by the mods in the same light as everyone else.

So, keep up with caring for this site the way you do. Keep suggesting changes. It's people who actually care to take the time to be constructive in the face of issues that enact change and not the people who just pile around to complain about any and everything whenever there's a stage available.

Thank you,
cgoodno

[BitbyDeath]

Mods are generally invisible so i think that's where the complaints are coming from that they do nothing.

Anyways thanks for the feedback.

@kahjah, yea i've seen people write some silly reports against posts, rules need to be clearer imo so we can officially point somewhere and say look you are wrong.

[DragonKnight]

Yeah, we do disagree on a lot of things but that doesn't mean we can't agree on others. This blog escalated things pretty quickly into areas I didn't perceive of, but I'm actually glad. I'm pleased people used the blog to vent their frustrations and that, for the most part, it's been pretty civil. Feels like many feel they have no real way of venting this stuff (even though their are tools in place already to do so) and decided to use my blog to do that. Exposure isn't always a good thing, but it appears to be good in this case.

And to the people saying that what I spoke about isn't new, you're right it's not. But lately it's been worse. People haven't cared what gets through the approval system lately even more than before.

[kahjah]

I would say in the dame vein, I've posted stories from my site that are keeping with the protocols and still have them fail for nonsensical reasons. That is just as worrying.

[wishingW3L]

I reported this blog and they still approved it.... -__-

http://n4g.com/news/1164795...

[Captain Tuttle]

Looks fine to me

[coolbeans]

The term "blog" can be kind of dicey at times like this. When looking at 1UP's "The Grind," it looks like extra opinion pieces by official writers (or "industry professionals" as listed in the guidelines) that work for the site.

Like with Tom Chick's reviews, those can be considered legitimate on here.

[Speed-Racer]

The problem is that 'blogging' is slowly replacing the term 'Op-ed'. Many of the big sites like HuffingtonPost, etc. do things like this as well. I guess they are just moving with the terminology that is current. The word 'blog' has become extremely broad. 90% of the sites submitted here run on some sort of blogging platform, the most popular being Wordpress. What's to say they can't submit? You really have to look at where the content is coming from and who writes it.

[JaredH]

I think part of approving news doesn't work. If a mod approves news as soon as it's pending it has below 50 degrees. The majority of users will never see the article because of the default above 50 degrees option. Imo this is pretty shady.

[coolbeans]

"Stuff like how easy it is to lose a bubble, but how nearly impossible it is to gain one. . ."

Although the rest of the blog displays a legitimate yearning for n4g to improve, I hate how this is always something that's been brought up as a 'negative' against the site. I know I started with the 5-bubble setup, but my journey to seven (currently) wasn't faultless. If you cogently present your side of the argument in a respectable manner you will either get bubbles or earn respect of others that could lead to bubbles down the road (and maybe hit the jackpot of sleeping with Smokey like LostDjinn :P).

My take on the "difficulty" of earning bubbles:

Perhaps the problem may weigh more with the quality of your posts, rather than the overly-critical nature of the community judging them.

[Ducky]

More so an issue with people giving negative votes when they see something inappropriate (or they're really angry) while not many people give a positive vote.

So a lot of quality posts don't get the recognition they deserve.
Unless if your idea of quality is cheesy one-liners, since that's how I got my bubbles.

I would like it if authors of user-blogs/reviews got unlimited bubbles (or a higher amount) within that blog/review. Seems kinda silly when an author makes a valid argument in a blog but is unable to answer queries in the comments because of a low bubble count.

[coolbeans]

-I don't know...that first point looks like it's wandering over to that realm of paranoia where "those that disagree with me MUST be bubbling me down too!" Pure speculation, and even if it could be proven true it would typically only be associated with company/game franchise-based articles. That leaves everything else as open territory for them to post and not worry about that "angry" poster that's been bubbling them down out of a whim.

Sure, there's the worry about the article being popular enough for posters to see the statement but I think that can be mitigated by searching out the compelling articles in pending and being the first with a quality statement (note the consistency portion in my comment above). You can't tell me that EVENTUALLY the consistent poster won't go unnoticed.

"Unless if your idea of quality is cheesy one-liners, since that's how I got my bubbles."

What does my idea of quality have to with it? If the community at large found your cheesy one-liners to be funny then you're in luck: that's one of the categories for bubbling someone up.

-Indeed. This has been brought up before and I'm surprised it hasn't changed yet.

[LostDjinn]

Smokey turned me down. :(
I thought DK may have more luck though "coz", you know, Smokey's a freak and all. :P

[Silly gameAr]

This site has been kind of jacked for a while.

[Speed-Racer]

As a moderator over at TechSpy, I too would like to see the bubbles system disappear. For us, that's one of the major stumbling blocks preventing fleshed-out discussion. When users start, they get three bubbles, which doesn't allow for a lot of wiggle room. Also, people in general (not just on Newsboiler) are quick to negatively rate someone should they disagree with a comment but very rarely positively rate when a comment is good. It's a human nature issue rather than an N4G problem.

Very interesting discussion otherwise.

[SnakeCQC]

any chance of restoring my lost bubble?

[Speed-Racer]

I can restore it only over at TechSpy. I don't have any control here.

[INehalemEXI]

I blame trekkies.

[CaptainCamper]

Quality is my biggest issue on here. Some sites, not going to mention names, post utter drivel. They'll post an exact copy & paste of a press release, and get approved against another article where the author has included all the PR information, screenshots, videos, extra details etc.

Other sites post a killer headline and then write less than 1 paragraph on the topic.

[StreetsofRage]

Whoa! Lots of comments on here. Don't be fooled by the bubble masters up there. Their are no mods on this site. At least ones that are supposed to do their job.

Funny story. I was lucky enough to be at CES this year and was talking to a few Sony reps. Talking about the future of tv's and gaming. I mentioned about some information that I saw on this site. He laughed and told me in his exact words, "that site is run by children." We both laughed.