Hawken dev: "Widening gap" between consoles and PC, talks about PC development

GB: We recently interviewed Jon Kreuzer, Technical Director at Adhesive Games, the developers of Hawken, and asked him their views on piracy, DRM, and plenty of things.

[pixelsword]

The next gen will probably shrink the gap significantly, seeing that this gen really held it's own to the point that it really didn't matter too much one way or the other.

[black911]

The 360 has been holding the PS3 Back.

(Just Look)

http://24.media.tumblr.com/...

[Belking]

CG buddy.

[Godmars290]

But is such quality needed in terms of gameplay? Has it been used in active gameplay?

[pixelsword]

That's nice, I can't wait for The Last of Us.

I don't think the PS3 has had any problems being the generator of great graphics, but even the PS3 is not totally out of the blame game: The Cell could have had a lot more support in terms of help from Sony for developers having trouble using the processor. Using multi-core and parallel processing techniques are still relatively new, so Sony should have had an constantly updated engine to combat the industry's lack of experience.

Some developers got a hold of it really well early on (factor 5, Ninja Theory, Evolution), but many others could not grasp the depth of what either technique could do to develop games very well; heck, even Crytek (which I think are one of the best devs out there) had a problem translating Crysis over, and the Cry engine (from what I thought) used parallel-processing.

You may be right overall, I just think Sony could and still can help people bring out the best on the PS3 and hopefully have The Cell with much better developer support in the PS4.

@ godmars:

"But is such quality needed in terms of gameplay? Has it been used in active gameplay?"

I believe so, and here's why:

Immersion is the key to games like The Last of Us and other games like Resident Evil, or any game which uses a degree of realism; or else things that have nothing to do with the active area like draw distance or such as voice syncing in cut-scenes would not make gamers dislike a certain game.

These things accumulate to make the overall gaming experience worth your money, plus worth the investment of time. When you see things like a blurry object "load-in" like in Gears, or loading in general like Killzone 2, it does take away from the experience, despite how the game plays you always have a reminder that it's only a game; sometimes, you can get into a game so much you lose yourself in the moment, and the longer a game can do that, the better the game is. I love both Gears and Killzone, and both had moments of losing yourself in it, but if they can hold-up and give a flawless experience for the whole game, those games will elevate to and above what even games like Halo or Call of Duty can do in terms of fans and sales.

[ApolloAdams]

Interesting assumption. Considering this game will be heavily scripted relying heavily on quick time events throughout. Sure even if that was in game quality which it won't be it still is beautiful. But it sacrifices choice and dynamic events and environments for this beauty. I wouldn't call it revolutionary.

[solid_warlord]

@BLACK911 HAHAHA heavy rain is basicaly a CG game with no real game play at all.

Remember Killzone 2 demo in E3 2005...Sony claiming it was Realtime...lol.

[LordSane]

(Just Look)

http://oi41.tinypic.com/wr2...

[Ezz2013]

@LordSane

this is pretty lame and has been debunked long time ago
that's the only part in cutsence that got change from the e3 build because they wanted to add dirt to that scene inside the bus
same gfx just different colour

the game as good or better than E3 build
here
this from E3 build in HD
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
final bulid in HD
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
skip to 10:31
lol yeah E3 bulid look much better /s

as for you
@belking

you say CG ...right ?!

here
all gameplay
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Qrphe]

Except this image isn't running on a PS3, just look at the damn resolution please. The PS3 can't do this.

@solid_warlord
KZ2 ended up looking about the same as that CG trailer actually. The whole "Sony cheated us again!" with KZ2 is nothing more than a rash conjecture.

http://generationdreamteam....

[ALLWRONG]

LordSane

lol 1+

[SerodD]

@Ezz2013 Well in does videos that you sent, the e3 video, does look better than the actual gameplay, so I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic with your "lol yeah E3 bulid look much better /s "

[Ezz2013]

@SerodD

there is really something wrong with your eyes if you think the E3 demo look better

[Gildarts]

what is your excuse for halo 4? (being one of the best looking games on both consoles)

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

343i is made of worldclass talent. They got people who worked on Directx11 and their engine programmer worked at NASA for crying out loud.

I do not believe the next xbox will be weaker then the PS4

[madpuppy]

Everyone spouts gameplay when quality graphics are shown like both cannot exist in the same game.

Personally, I would MUCH rather play a game with a great story, excellent gameplay and superior graphics
over a game with a great story, excellent gameplay and piss poor mediocre graphics.

high quality graphics always ENHANCE the gaming experience. anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves.

[Norrison]

Looks bad actually, look at the low res pendant and wounds, anything below the head looks low res too, just a high res face. Those have been around a long time ago.

[humbleopinion]

Yeah, we've been there already

(Just Look)

http://www.pixologic.com/in...

[KING85]

Considerable improvements will be made with next gen consoles, as physics, graphics, A.I and such should improve significantly, thus shrinking the gap if you will. Probably native 1080p and 60FPS or the minimum 30FPS on next gen consoles as I would expect nothing less. Yet when you consider new graphics cards, processors and such are on there way out this year as well as graphics cards and processors in the future i.e. 2014, 2015 will more than likely result in further graphical and physics improvements throughout the years.
As long as consoles are closed and cannot be upgraded in terms of graphic cards and such it will always be "outdated". I love consoles because of the ease of use and the exclusives which you'll find nowhere else like Gears, Uncharted and Zelda. Yet with PC gaming I think i'll stick with most multiplats like Battlefield on PC. Next gen is looking very promising and exciting though

[pixelsword]

I agree, but there are some games I'll only play on PC, and others I'll only play on consoles, graphics or not because of the potential community on one or the other.

The best Next-gen games will have cross platform play, I would think; Dust 514 is shaping up to be a powerhouse. I was in the beta (still am) and I hated it at first, but that game is developing to be something that will pull me off of just about every multiplayer game with the exception of PlanetSide2.

But I must add that when you look at this gen, there really wasn't much of a difference in terms of releasing games for a console or PC; the gameplay is preserves 100%, and in some instances you saw things consoles did before the PC this gen, like how MAG for the PS3 had 256 players in a game with modern graphics before the PC did, even though once the PC did, the graphics were better lol.

[zebramocha]

@pixel the original planetside had like 600+ characters in mp.

[pixelsword]

@ zebra:

I know, but what I'm saying is with modern graphics; that's why mods working with Valve's and Unreal engines could not get it above 128 without a lot of lag and a bunch of problems; it was only the Bad Company devs, I think? That did it. PlanetSide 1 had more than 256 not doubt, but it had graphics that were not modern.

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

Consoles didn't hold it's own. Pc is held back by consoles. But sometimes not. Console version of bf3 is missing 40 extra players. Don't mention MAG planetside 2 is 2000 players.

[ZoyosJD]

PC's are held back by their inability to standardize, while consoles are held back by their inability to constantly advance.

It's all about when and where devs put out the effort to make the most of whats available.

Extra players doesn't mean **** if the game isn't designed around it. *looks at BF3 metro map on PC*

[Capt-FuzzyPants]

I feel like it will close the gap for a year or too. Then the PC will keep advancing it's tech and capabilities and the gap will start to widen again.

[ATi_Elite]

No this Gen the consoles DID NOT hold their own against the PC!

While many consolers get stuck on graphics and fail to realize that PC Gaming switched to a mostly online experience with MMO's having thousands of gamers online at once.

You can play games alone or instantly link up with friends in MMO's. The consoles lack the power needed to have this Gaming experience that is a world wide Success.

Next Gen Consoles will have the power to let Console Devs bring the MMO experience to consoles.

Meanwhile PC Gaming moves closer to more user created content going into games, Voxel and Ray Traced graphics along with Huge Game worlds that are Gamer controlled.

[yeahokchief]

Well look at the numbers.

If PC sales continue to decline then there will be a smaller user base.

If there is a smaller user base then there will be less incentive to develop games for the PC.

If there is less incentive to develop for the PC more games will be made based around console specs.

You may get 1 or 2 games like Battlefield 3 that are beyond the capabilities of consoles, but I'd estimate that more games are going to have lower requirements. But i'm sure there will be at least 1 or 2 games that require the power of a full blown pc.

Personally I'm not willing to spend that much on a pc so if they are to survive they will have to lower their entry cost and make the experience more convenient.

[CatXFlash]

Everyone knows about the gap between current gen (last gen at this point) consoles and PC what people need is a clear view of the massive gap that will take place with Next gen consoles and state of the art gaming PCs. The line will get bigger and to be honest I do not care because both will have things like Oculust Rift which will bring new ways of playing games. For all we know Nintendo, SONY and MS have a ready 3D/VR device for us at E3 this year in June... that is all I care about for now I love my WiiU and I am sure PS4 and 720 will be awesome machine.... as long as MS is not milking people... all should be fine lol.

[tachy0n]

all PC's have way more graphical power but thanks to devs not being able to access the PC as deep as consoles, holds PC gaming back!!

THANK YOU MICRO$OFT!! thank you for not giving deeper access to developers over the Direct X API!!

[360 man]

thats not why pc gaming is held back in relation to consoles. its because pc has a million different setups, nothing is a fixed architecture. so many different cards and cpus out there. not because of direct x loooool. you know nothing.

[tachy0n]

*facepalm*

im not saying that PC gaming is being held by consoles, what im saying is that devs on the PC need deeper access into the hardware on PC components so ports and game development be easier on PC's.

go research before replying with BS or disagreeing.

[TheUndertaker85]

"devs on the PC need deeper access into the hardware on PC components so ports and game development be easier on PC's"

"thats not why pc gaming is held back in relation to consoles. its because pc has a million different setups, nothing is a fixed architecture. so many different cards and cpus out there."

I dunno why you're arguing... You did state hardware. Considering my laptop has different hardware compared to every other computer out there outside of like models I don't see how he's wrong.

You can't code a game to run well on 16 gigs of RAM when the standard computer only comes with 4 at base. You can't create a game to take advantage of that newest graphics card on the market without stomping out more of your userbase that doesn't have that new of a card. Now you've got touch coming in too.

His statement is factual. I don't know why idiots are disagreeing to it. PCs are only being held back by PCs. With no standards it'll continue being that way. PC devs won't be dumb enough to code for the least common denominator(IE those shiny new components for PC that most people don't have) when there's a much larger audience that has the most common denominator(IE those components that came out a couple years ago and are now being thrown in at base). That's virtually picking one person over five, stupid no matter how it's looked at.

[360 man]

thank you bubbles up.

unfortunately most my disagrees most likely came because my choice of user name. lol

[ZoyosJD]

Even if they were given deeper access it would do no good because of the variety of PC's.

Say that this was the case...devs would have a few options.

1. Develop with certain hardware in mind and screw anyone who doesn't have it(would run even worse than unoptimized code).

2. Convince every PC gamer to run a certain rig(not going to happen) and essentially turn PCs into consoles.

3. Not use it at all.

[TheUndertaker85]

The dev addresses the same thing even... Really dunno why the disagrees now.

"“At the same time there is a pretty big gap between high-end gaming PCs, and older or lower-end gaming PCs. Still PC development means less emphasis on certain things, eg. memory-usage, and you can create better visuals and do more interesting things on high-end GPUs and CPUs.”"

[LordSane]

Actually we already can have cg quality graphics in games.
(this is from "a new dawn" real time demo by nvidia)
http://www.geforce.com/Acti...

But no one will buy such games because of the high system requirements.

[hellvaguy]

"THANK YOU MICRO$OFT!! thank you for not giving deeper access to developers over the Direct X API!!"

You totally showed your complete ignorance and fanboyism right here. MS has been known for catering to devs and being very userfriendly with the dev kits. Tons of articles out there like this. Google is your friend (or in Tachyon's case, worse enemy for proving him wrong).
http://www.cinemablend.com/...

The bigger factors holding pc software advancing further than it has is because of fragmentation of all the different hardware setups and bit torrents forms of pirating software. Although it seems like Steam has been a big boost in pc sales in the past few years.

[Miacosa]

This same stories happened a few years ago when the new consoles hit their stride and stories would hit about the death of the PC. Now fast forward to today and its the death nell of consoles because they are old. Jump to the end of this year when the new consoles will hit and within a year or so articles about the death of PC gaming will pop-up again. Welcome to the circle of gaming life.

[Kennytaur]

No shite Sherlock. But the PC trend seems to be shifting towards laptops and such with just integrated GPUs. In terms of gameplay and innovation though, consoles have been at the forefront all this generation. And it can't be denied that consoles hold up very well half a decade later.

[Bladesfist]

In my opinion there is hardly any innovation on consoles, no games near mount and blade or as realistic as Arma or as strategic as starcraft. There are a ton of inventive indie games on PC but you will only hear about them if you are interested in the PC.

[Kennytaur]

Doesn't seem like we have the same understanding of the word "innovation". I'm interested in PC, don't think I'm a console only gamer just because I'm taking their side. But Journey, Mario Galaxy, Starhawk, Alan Wake (although I play it on PC and it may not be too good of an example but I like the way it uses light.), Valkyria Chronicles and Little Big Planet are all examples of console titles that brought fresh new and innovative gameplay experiences.

[Bladesfist]

That is a handful of arguable titles. Nothing as crazy and unique as Thomas was alone a game about giving character and personality to a quadrilateral or Octodad or any of the other smaller titles that are so far from the norm and all only on PC.

[Saryk]

I don't feel that the CPU/motherboard, ram and video cards areas will improve in the next 10 years. Solid State Hard Drives however will improve. So if the console companies can beef up there systems and make the drives upgradable, I see a good future for consoles. Speculating here, but with the openness of the Steambox, I see it dominating the arena.

[TheUndertaker85]

Every system out there right now has some type of upgradeable memory rather it's memory cards or hard drives, proprietary or not.

[mochachino]

I can't wait till this gen is over so people stop arguing about PS3 graphics. Who cares now, both consoles are both completely outdated in terms of graphics.

[hellvaguy]

Obviously you haven't played Uncharted 3, Halo 4, or Black Ops 2. They look amazing. Try having something look that good on 7 year old pc hardware. You wouldn't see it, because they don't optimize.

[mochachino]

I have Uncharted 3 and Halo 4. Just because something looks good for the hardware it's on doesn't mean it looks that good.

I've seen DS/PSP games that look great for the hardware, doesn't mean they're good looking games.

[Norrison]

Crysis 1? Released 6 years ago and no console game has topped it on ultra

[ninjahunter]

Do tell more about your massive knowledge on Hardware capabilities, artistic styles, graphical features and so on so forth. Please endow me with your knowledge on every last thing wrong with the industry.

Also, Uncharted isnt a holy abyss of graphics, Killzone isnt perfect either, nor Halo 4 or gears of war. They look good for 720p games. They look great for 720p actually, But they pretty flat, blocky and a bunch of other unsavory words when you actually look at things. Of course there's nothing wrong with this because people actually don't stop and stare at walls when their Playing.
Cmon guys, get your panties out of a bunch, no one thinks any less of you because you got a 360 instead of a PS3 or vice versa. People should be talking about what makes games fun and exciting.

[profgerbik]

Meh consoles aren't upgradeable so what does it matter, PC's may very well be beaten by them on initial release but it never lasts.

I know all about computers and the reason consoles are able to do that is because all components are set mainly to work on one process which is playing a game.

No matter what you do on a PC it can be running hundreds of different processes in the background but given PC's can always be upgraded they will never technically be beaten by consoles ever graphically. Also PC's have much more of their component used by the entire system in general versus a console that really doesn't have much on it.

I mean I am not producing music on a gaming console for good reasons. PC and console both have their downs and up but overall PC will always be king.

Keep in mind the entire idea of a console is practically based on PC's to begin with except it just focuses on gaming but it's basically a stripped down PC that can do less and just play games better for a short while.

I remember when the Xbox 360 and PS3 came along they were practically on par with PC's at the time but quickly that faded because PC components are constantly being developed, where as a console has to wait years upon years just to see an upgrade.

[tubers]

It's slowly trying to be a PC: media heavy, app heavy, etc, ease of net access, etc.

Still won't replace a PC though. They don't have to.

[urwifeminder]

LoL gap more like a chasm im so glad i moved to pc.