PS4 Rumour: Sony Files Patent For Dynamic Content Switching Between Architecturally Distinct GPUs

Sony has filed a patent which is called “Dynamic Context Switching Between architecturally Distinct GPUs”.

[bicfitness]

This is encouraging as it reinforces the idea that they will be going with power next gen. We don't need another Wii U.

[Karooo]

Power consumption is vital, you can't use a desktop GPU all the time even for random OS services, if they have a low power GPU to complement it they can save power and use the high power GPU only for games.

[NewMonday]

this could mean the OS is fully on in another window.

[sikbeta]

@bicfitness

Eh... was obvious from the start, Sony and MS go for the Power, N play with other cards...

O-T

Didn't understand a bit going by the title alone... anyone in the know can explain this mumbo-jumbo-tech related patent for me please :P

[Hatsune-Miku]

I love it how sony ponys are using a rumor to bash unfairly wii u.

Lets assume this is true. You go ahead buy a 500 dollar system with 70 dollar games, that only EA can develop for.

""devilhacker"& quot;

The wii u is rubbish. I can't wait for the Ps4. The Ps4 will be very powerful and improve upon gaming as we know it on consoles.I would gladly pay for quality and more power for my consoles. Its a hobby of mine so I don't want to pay for outdated tech seen in the wii u that came out 10 years ago and later at the beginning of this gen. Nes fanatics are silly and excuses bad decisions made by Nintendo then talk about things like power and graphics doesn't matter. It wouldn't matter to people who are fanatics and to mainly support their fav company.

I'd gladly buy a ps4 for 500quid as long as its powerful and future proof Plus people have things called jobs where we get money and buy what we can afford. The wii u is already outdated before release,lol.

Buying a Wii u is like buying a xbox 360 for twice the price with worse games

[bicfitness]

@ sik. I don't think that it was. Reports were conflicting for a while and many indicated that it would go with a low all on chip solution, which would peg it as very similar to the Wii U (though stronger, surely).

This news is encouraging if its not just patent protecting and will actually be used.

[pixelsword]

Sounds like going back and forth between games of different gens for some reason to me.

[ABizzel1]

@sik

Basically it means Sony's will likely have 2 GPU's in their PS4. Now the fact that they're "different architecture" means they're unlikely to be running XFire or SLI (although the patent could of been produced because Sony found a way to make the 2 GPUS work together).

1st GPU will have a lower power consumption which would likely put it as a weaker GPU. My guess is that GPU is actually the rumored AMD A10-APU, which uses a HD 7660. It's capable of running anything the PS360 has come up with thus far and at better framerates, plus it has a solid Quad-Core CPU built into it, it's small, and it has a low power draw (perfect for consoles). So when you're doing anything outside of playing PS4 games then the APU will likely be the only thing running the console to save energy, lower heat, and other GREEN benefits.

The 2nd GPU is likely a more powerful GPU to run those PS4 games in 1080p @ 60fps in 3D that Sony wants. This is possibly the most determining factor of what the PS4 will be capable of (that and RAM, and if the GPU's can do Xfire or not). Here are the GPU's they would likely go with:

7870 or 7950: If they want the PS3 to be comparable to High-End PC's then either of these cards will do. Their 1080p @ 60fps in 3D goal will be reached, and it will allow for some 4K gaming in the form of PSN titles, PS3 HD remakes @ 60fps, and even some PS4 games. If Sony wants Ultra graphics settings using DX11 then these cards are a must.

7970M / 7850 / 6970: These cards are in a similar position as the ones above, with the exception being they're better suited for playing games at High settings instead of Ultra. But everything else applies.

There are a group of other cards that will work, but from there on down the "next-gen" factor starts to dwindle when compared to current PC gaming.

If anything they should try for the 7800 series and if they can the AMD Steamroller A-12 APU. The 7800 series would be the most powerful cards they can get and by the end of 2013 they should be able to get them at a very reasonable price. 7850's are selling for around $160 right now, and 7870's are going for around $230. By launch next year they should be getting them for $130 (7850) and $180 (7870) thanks to the launch of the 8000 series and competitive price drops. The A-12 APU should be a nice leap over the A-10 as well offering better performance for games, and possibly lower power consumption as well. We'll see come CES. By then a decision must be made.

[kneon]

If you read the patent then you will see that it is unlikely that this is for the PS4. This is for a tablet, phone, laptop or handheld gaming device, though I expect it's unlikely to be the last one.

[Ju]

This has nothing to do with power consumption, even if possible in this configuration.

But what's much more interesting that this allows a "multi gpu" setup in a non-coherent setup using a "virtual" intermediate language (e.g. virtual or abstract shader language) which is compiled "on the fly" to the architecture underneath. It doesn't even specify what GPU is used. Theoretically it could run one shader "binary" and (re)compile for both AMD and NVidia (or what ever).

What that also allows them to do in the long run is to support (past?) and future machines with the same graphics language.

BTW: This could even go so far and run on a PS3 I imagine.

[DeadlyFire]

So CPU 301 may be a Cell processor? What? Okay I guess I know that PS3 games will be possible on the PS4 now if that maybe is more than a maybe. :P CPU 101 is likely main CPU or is it? Its possible a 2nd generation Cell design could exist along side their setup to function as PS3 support + extra muscle if needed?

GPU 103, 104, and GPU 303,304 = what? Possibly the same GPUs. Its an interesting puzzle. Does the new GPU combo emulate PS3 GPU alongside possible cell in CPU 301 or are they separate GPUs? I assume Platform 300 series would mean PS3 emulation. Wording this in a similar fashion to Microsoft's patent. Basically 300's perform as a PS3 would. 100's perform as a PS4 would. Microsoft does the same kinda thing, but in their own way. :P

Microsoft filled a similar patent awhile ago talking of CPU 302, CPU 304 with GPU 306, 308. Also with CPU 307, and GPU 309 mentioned. Ah here ya go. Lets compare! http://www.tomshardware.com...

It mentioned communication fabric. Which just so happens to be ARM powered support system that AMD is throwing in all their new chips in the future.

Timing of the filings revealing few months later make me believe Sony might be heading to early 2014 launch.

Looks like both plan on utilizing 2 GPUs or say GPGPU + APU? or say modern high end GPU with last generation GPU?

Its a puzzle on the power of said pieces of the puzzle and how they will function exactly. E3 we will see it all.

[LOL_WUT]

@ bicfitness

"This is encouraging as it reinforces the idea that they will be going with power next gen. We don't need another Wii U."

Interesting ;)

[GraveLord]

This seems to be less about power, and more about multi-tasking.

[Blackdeath_663]

thats what i thought at first. i hope this is th case because multitasking was the ps3's weakest points. however i don't think it is about multitasking because that has to do with the RAM not the GPU's.

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

@bicfitness

"Sony: We won't show PS4 until it can demonstrate 'a significant leap'"

http://n4g.com/news/1021333...

[akaakaaka]

Pc gamers, nintendo fanboys and cheap gamers
"Sony can't afford another hi end console"
"Ps4 will only have a small upgrade" lolzz

Ps4 will amaze anyoane and pc gamers stop hating and get exited because it only means pc games will also step up..

[lfclee]

That's a bold claim?

[zeddy]

sounds good but i hope they dont make it too complicated for the devs. took 3rd party devs at least 3 years to master.

[portal_2]

I am so ready for next-gen.

[TemplarDante]

APU (cpu+gpu)+GPU= 1TF+2.5TF = Samaritan demo+

Cue on my PS Orbis :)

[Mac is OK]

The rumor was that the PS4 had a A8-3850 APU (with an integrated HD 6550D), and a HD 7670 for a discrete GPU.

Reference: http://www.ign.com/articles...

[TemplarDante]

You're talking the Alpha kit from January.
The second kit was A10 APU solution only. The January 2013 kit is highly modified A10 Jaguar cores, maybe two APUs with two packs of four Jaguar Cores at 1.6ghz per core. HD6770 and a 2TF 8series GPU.
The future is nearly upon us :)

[Mac is OK]

If they're now using a A10 they're probably using the A10-5800K, which has a 7660D.
I just hope the discrete GPU in the final version is better than a HD7670.

[WiigotU]

So the article states could be. If thre going to release a new system without any issues wouldn't they need to already know so that they can make sure the system is stable and has no issues?

[madjedi]

Yeah just like the wiiu was stable day 1 and isn't suffering from a piss poorly optimismed os still, or other issues.

[jjf]

It's interesting in that clearly sony arn't relying on off the shelf components, sony clearly could'nt patent something AMD designed in the first place.

[TemplarDante]

Its AMD using Sonys patent here..
There seems to be patent sharing between Sony, Microsoft, IBM and AMD ...
Remember the secret Sony-microsoft meetings..?
And the weird domain registrations..

[Ju]

The key is "different architectures". That's not what AMD (or any other vendor) does, because all SLI/X-Fire solutions require the same gpu on all end points. Sony's patent does not.

This is a layer above the metal. Like a VM for shaders.

[joeorc]

" That's not what AMD (or any other vendor) does, because all SLI/X-Fire solutions require the same gpu on all end points. Sony's patent does not. "

Slow down there. you may want to take a look at this:

AMD adds ARM processor as it looks beyond x86
AMD adds the Cortex-A5 processor with TrustZone technology to boost security on x86 chips

By Agam Shah
June 13, 2012

Advanced Micro Devices on Wednesday said it will integrate an ARM processor with upcoming x86 chips, marrying two rival architectures and ending more than a year of speculation around AMD's plans to use ARM technology.

Starting next year, AMD chips will integrate ARM's Cortex-A5 processor with TrustZone security technology. ARM processors are used in most of the smartphones and tablets that ship today, and TrustZone is found in all its Cortex-A processors.

TrustZone is a set of instructions that help secure mobile devices, mobile payments and streamed content. Netflix streams to some mobile devices are protected using TrustZone. AMD has signed a license with ARM for the Cortex-A5 processor, it said.

The integration of an ARM processor is one of the first big steps from AMD in a plan to overhaul its chip design strategy. Under a new management team, AMD said in February it would change its design methodology to allow the integration of third-party intellectual property, such as that from ARM.

AMD competes with Intel in the x86 processor market, where it has long struggled to significantly increase its market share. Intel and AMD both have virtually no presence in the tablet market, which is dominated by ARM. Rumors about AMD's plans to sign an ARM license have spread as growth in the PC market slowed and AMD plotted its next steps.

http://www.computerworld.co...

DO you think this is just for security alone?
Nvidia is doing the same with the Tegra a core set aside for Security. but also to reduce power.

aS AN EXAMPLE IN THE CASE OF THE PS3

the PS3's 8th core SPE was used in that process.
IT WAS DISABLED FOR GAMES AND DEVELOPER'S but not for the PS3 to use. That is why the developer's cannot see it or access it it was used for security only. Hacker's had to mimic that SPE core to Map memory and make a virtual copy of that SPE. they could not access it because it was closed off to outside sources. To this day the PS3 is still a 9 core processor. with the 8th spe disabled for everything but security.

EXAMPLE:

Sony expected to use IBM architecture in PlayStation 3
Bruce Gain

3/22/2002 10:21 AM EST

Additionally, the PS3, as well as other applications that will use the Cell, will take advantage of the CPU's "self healing" capability. "Self-healing computers will be programmed not to go down," Doherty said. "Bus and processor areas are automatically corrected using a new meshed era redundancy technology.

http://www.eetimes.com/elec... http://www.eetimes.com/elec...

NOTICE THAT WAS BACK IN 2002 , the SPE security core was a development that not only Sony was working on as you can see with Nvidia, AMD and IBM, TOSHIBA AND SONY!This use is not just for security, but also to be able to reduce process leak, and to lower requirement's in Heat dissipation.

[Ju]

^^ That's totally unrelated and has absolutely nothing to do with Sony's patent.

I quote this directly from the link above just in case you have trouble comprehending:

Here’s the official description of the patent: ”Graphics processing in a computer graphics apparatus having architecturally dissimilar first and second graphics processing units (GPU) is disclosed. Graphics input is produced in a format having an architecture-neutral display list. One or more instructions in the architecture neutral display list are translated into GPU instructions in an architecture specific format for an active GPU of the first and second GPU.”

Here is the link to the patent: http://appft.uspto.gov/neta...

[joeorc]

^^ That's totally unrelated and has absolutely nothing to do with Sony's patent.

I quote this directly from the link above just in case you have trouble comprehending:

Here’s the official description of the patent: ”Graphics processing in a computer graphics apparatus having architecturally dissimilar first and second graphics processing units (GPU) is disclosed. Graphics input is produced in a format having an architecture-neutral display list. One or more instructions in the architecture neutral display list are translated into GPU instructions in an architecture specific format for an active GPU of the first and second GPU.”

what do you think the freaking Cell processor is?

IT HAS EVERY THING TO DO WITH THE PATENT! why ? because Sony was one of the first companies to design this type of system along with IBM, and Toshiba. do you really think it had nothing to do with it? really?

you did not look at the entire doc did you?
because if you did and you really did understand what you read you would know that yes they are in fact 100% related to this patent, hell there is a ref. to the Cell for pete sake right off the bat!
just read and look at the entire doc:

example

Other References:
Cell Broadband Engine Architecture, copyright International Business Machines Corporation, Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated, Toshiba Corporation Aug. 8, 2005 which may be downloaded at http://cell.scei.co.jp/.

http://www.freepatentsonlin...

you do know its a CPU/GPU hybrid chip right?

the PPE is a Power PC risc, with the SPE's being a processor element that has on board system memory.

i mean as an example on how this works is right in the body of the doc:

The CPU 301 may include one or more processing cores. By way of example and without limitation, the CPU 301 may be a parallel processor module, such as a Cell Processor. An example of a Cell Processor architecture is described in detail, e.g., in Cell Broadband Engine Architecture, copyright International Business Machines Corporation, Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated, Toshiba Corporation Aug. 8, 2005 a copy of which may be downloaded at http://cell.scei.co.jp/, the entire contents of which are incorporated herein by reference.

The CPU 301 may be configured to run software applications and optionally an operating system. The software applications may include graphics processing software 303 portions of which may be stored in the memory 302 and loaded into registers of the CPU 301 and/or GPU Context Controller 305 for execution.

notice this: "CPU 301 and/or GPU Context Controller 305 for execution."

what does it say right in the very first part in the DESCRIPTION OF THE SPECIFIC EMBODIMENTS?

This is accomplished using an architecture-neutral display list instruction set in software, and having a specialized piece of hardware (the “GPU Context Controller”) sit between the GPUs that translates the architecture-neutral instruction set into the architecture-specific instruction set of the given GPU:"

notice once again what they were talking about:

"This is accomplished using an architecture-neutral display list instruction set in software, and having a specialized piece of hardware (the “GPU Context Controller”) sit between the GPUs that translates the architecture-neutral instruction set into the architecture-specific instruction set of the given GPU:"

why do you think the Cell was made the way it was?

[sandman224]

Wow, a true next gen gaming system. As long as its not another wii U ill be more than pleased. Also I hope Sony/Microsoft doesn't mimic the wii U's gamepad for a controller. If anything keep the ps3 controller the same. Just fix the convex shape of the l2 and r2 buttons.

[KrisButtar]

"Also I hope Sony/Microsoft doesn't mimic the wii U's gamepad for a controller."

my 2 cents worth is they already got that covered with the vita

[TheModernKamikaze]

Hmm. I know some of those words.

[supremacy]

As long as the next Playstation dont suffer a memory bottleneck i am sold. Dont want to hear these devs excuses anymore.

[TacoTaru]

I hate patents like that. It only hurts technology when general idea patents are allowed.

[The Meerkat]

Apple will claim they already have the patent.

[AllroundGamer]

Apple can suck APUs d1ck :)

[fOrlOnhOpe57]

Im hoping Sony have asked their first party devs to envisage the future of gaming and what THEY would need to make it happen.

[torchic]

oh definitely, Sony learned from their mistakes, I even remember a guy from the Sony hierarchy saying they're working with 1st party devs, asking for input on what they want.

[r21]

Actually, for the ps vita, Sony specifically went to studios and asked what they want in the next gen portable and thus we have IMO one of the best handheld systems in the world :D

[SuperShyGuy]

Strange the this patent is just being filed now when we were told the PS4 devkits were already out months ago and people have been working on games for it. Does this mean the original was scrapped? Not based on Cell, no backwards capability?

Does this means the PS4 won't be out until 2014? Seriously did they send the devkits out the patent what was in it later?

[Godchild1020]

The Patent was filed in July, on the 30th of this year. It might have been approved on the 20th of December. But I'm sure Sony had it in their system, up and running for Dev Kits before they even filed the patent or at least before it was approved.

http://appft.uspto.gov/neta...

So, it could still come out next year in Japan and early 2014 in the West.

[Qrphe]

Yep that's right, as long as they were to file the patent before anyone else they get priority on it regardless of how many revisions they are asked to submit.

[chukamachine]

Wii u should be able to pump out nice enough graphics.

But It'll barely look any better then PS3/360.

In itself, that's fine.

But I want games that push hardware, I want new types of gameplay, and the only one that seems to try it is SONY.

MICROSOFT will play the Kinect,gears,fable,forza,halo spin.

Ninty is MARIO and soon other type of cartoony games.

SONY takes risks. And I hope they continue to do that as much as possible.

Yes I still want a UC4 and Motorstorm 4. But I want titles that never though possible.

[Pillsbury1]

Power, awesome exclusives, great value. Bring on next gen Sony.

[Erdrick]

"content switching" sorta sounds like one cpu for the console and one for a handheld device that connects to the console - kinda like the wii u?

[hobohunterz]

Well it sounds more like they are talking about the graphics card processors in the article, meaning how the apu and gpu work together

[silkrevolver]

I was excited for this generation to last 10 years... but now that development is growing stagnant, and most new IP's are small (but great) downloadable games... we need a change.

I really hope sony blows it out of the water.

So many 1st and 2nd parties have been working on new games for years now.

It's gonna be good.

[DivineAssault]

i really dont give a damn to be honest.. I know sony will not only receive full 3rd party publisher support, but also provide a great catalog of exclusive content only possible on the PS4.. I trust that they know what theyre doing & i can buy a sony game console in confidence that itl provide me with many MANY hours of entertainment... Games 1st, media 2nd.. Do what u do sony, cuz im buying PS4 no matter whats in it

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Patents and completed products are two different things.

And for those of you wondering about the use of this tech in the PS4, well, keep hoping. It takes a long time to go from patent to final product. (And there is also the case of the missing R&D.) And with the 720 coming next year, along with the Steam Box and Apple TV, I doubt Sony is going to let the competition get another major head start.

Unless they have something else planned...

[3-4-5]

Hybrid computer-console for both xbox 720 & PS4.....

[lfclee]

According too ign I don't know but they say the ps4 isn't going to be much more powerful than the wiiu?

[ozzywazzy]

According to my ass... I had some bad chili. See what I did there?

[SheenuTheLegend]

r u kidding?
even the ps3 is more powerful than wii u.
thats what the ported games say....
n sony said they will not release ps4 before they see any significant leap...
never believe IGN, you cant spell ignorant without ign

[RuperttheBear]

'thats what the ported games say.... '

That just means they're sloppy ports. I've got a pc that is far more powerful than any of the consoles, yet ports like Splinter Cell Conviction run like a dog. Ports don't mean a thing.

[phantomexe]

I love my ps3 but can tell you right now i'm not paying 500 dollars for a consul. It has to be priced right for alot of people to buy it. I'm not rich or alone in this. Sounds like more power,more money alot more money.

[Smokingunz]

Nice sony! Say's the xbox fan lol

[Indo]

Why are people complaining about the potential pricing of the PS Orbis or the 720 for? We all want power in these next gen consoles so pay the damn price. You want to be cheap then buy the Wii u. I'm personally going to buy the Ps4/Orbis regardless pricing, but $600 or less is my limit. Shit for that much a gaming Pc would be more of a better investment.

[cee773]

its the same people who buys galaxy's, iphones and ipads etc. every year lol.

IRONY.

[Indo]

I get you on that but Home Gaming Consoles have to deal with a 6-8 year life cycle. If they were to release a new console say every 2years to be realistic, it be a different story. Then I be like yah I think I pass on the PS 3s lol

[KrisButtar]

im not all knowing about tech, but to me the switching, would be about backwards compatibility or maybe between game functions and media functions using different gpu.

[3GenGames]

This is basically a red flag for an AMD (Or intel, hopefully not.) CPU, along with an IBM "Cell" processor. Odds are they'll have a GPU for the cell, and one for the next system. I bet they also use the GPU for the cell as the OS GPU to save hardware resources. Or the other way around, PS3 game runs, the main GPU will be for the OS.

Interesting. It doesn't say much else though, we'll have to see.

[DJ]

It's a great idea that frees up the PS Orbis's OS to do some cool stuff visually. And I'm sure games will use both GPUs too.

[TheKayle]

i think that a july patent is too late to be something ps4 related otherwise this would mean that they have the best company in the whole world and that they can keep secrets tech inside the company ....but i dont think is this the case