150°

Samus, Zelda and Peach; women and sexism in Nintendo games, and why these characters need an update

Digitally Downloaded writes: "It is high time that Nintendo started to look at building female heroes that don't need to be disguised as men, subservient to men or in desperate need of rescuing by men."

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digitallydownloaded.net
Snookies124215d ago

What's wrong with Samus? If you mean her, when saying "female heroes don't need to be disguised as men," I don't believe she's ever been disguised as a man. It's kind of a gender neutral suit if you ask me.

MattS4215d ago

It's fun when people comment before reading an article.

Snookies124215d ago (Edited 4215d ago )

I usually only skim through things, no need to be like that I was simply asking a question.

MattS4215d ago

I apologise Snookies, that probably sounded far harsher than I intended.

Gender politics is a very complex issue. A single picture/ costume is not representative of anything. The article is a really brief summary of the issue - I can't answer your question in a quicker way than that :)

AO1JMM4215d ago

It's usually complete garbage thats why.

ElectricKaibutsu4215d ago

Geez Matt, I wish you could lighten up a bit about defending your articles. I almost always like what you write but your replies to criticisms tend to be so serious they make the comments feel tense.

I honestly think you make great points, especially here where you notice that Samus wasn't a female character until her wearing a bikini is the reward for completing the game. I would have replied to Snookies12 if you hadn't.

TheGamingArt4215d ago (Edited 4215d ago )

Honestly I don't see the sexism..... Peach is cliche and old but if you haven't noticed... they toughened her up in SSB/Mario Tennis/Mario Kart. Zelda has Sheik... really (which is not defined as manly) and Samus was never disguised as a man... that was purely assumption on behalf of the audience due to the time period. Not only that, but her opened suite is pretty exposed... They literally shook the game industry making a woman character like that ( and you're complaining ). I'm not reading the article simply because I know I can predict your points... and they're bad. Also, why is it determined that these characters are portrayed like men when they're suited up? What are they suppose to be, bitches to the max Jersey Shores Style? I'd actually call you out for trying to define what a woman is and does as sexism. The simple fact that you're offended by these games (one of which brought woman into the gaming world as a defined strong MAIN character) shows your sensitivity to the matter. You simply need to go and watch a few south park episodes. I believe they have one on racism. This will help you gain some perspective on what you are actually doing.

ElectricKaibutsu4214d ago

@TheGamingArt

I'm trying to think of a way to reply to you that isn't just "read the article". Maybe I can summarize.

Peach only has one game to herself and in it she fights enemies with her stereotypical feminine out of control emotions.

Zelda in OoT was Sheik and that was cool but of course she was still captured and needed to be rescued in the end. A better argument could be made for Tetra in Windwaker where she led a gang of pirates. Still, she had to be rescued there too.

In Metroid, you didn't play as the girl that's strong enough to take on the space pirates. You play as Samus who is completely genderless until you're rewarded for beating the game by getting to see her underwear. Of course Retro did an awesome job with her in the Metroid trilogy and I'd rather just pretend Other M doesn't exist.

Really, I don't think Nintendo is overly sexist with these games (except for Super Princess Peach, but that's more bizarrely sexist than objectifyingly sexist). There are of course far worse offenders than Nintendo. I mean, Dead or Alive? Or even God of War which had the make-the-pot-break minigame. In the end the sexism in these Nintendo games are no worse than a Disney movie. Still, Super Princess Peach. What's up with that?

DragonKnight4214d ago

For goodness sake, another one of these articles? Really? Here's an idea, why don't we just demand that all games have protagonists and antagonists that are completely gender neutral. No possible way of telling if they are male or female. It's going to get to that point anyway because people are offended by the smallest stuff that has no bearing on their actual lives. I could sit here and make a long post about the ridiculous nature of these articles, but instead I'm just going to post this picture.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 4214d ago
KrimsonKody4215d ago

No, it was never a disguise, just a surprise, that when you finish the 1st Metroid, she relieves herself of her helmet, revealing a female.

Nimblest-Assassin4214d ago

What was wrong with Samus?

Nothing until other M

The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.The baby.

-Yeah... we need another Metroid to fix this massive problem

Bimkoblerutso4214d ago (Edited 4214d ago )

QFT there. Usually I see this crap as the journo bait that it is, but with other M...they genuinely "housewifed" Samus up, I've gotta say.

I mean good god: Metroid other M... M.O.M? Really?

omarzy4215d ago

Peach is always kidnapped by Bowser. She is weaker. Why even have the Mario Mario character save her(the entire point of the games) if Peach could handle Bowser on her own?

Same thing Zelda. She cannot beat Ganon, and she was not even captured in Skyward Sword. She was being chased the whole time. If someone is weaker, they are weaker.

Samus does not need to dress as a man to have power. She dresses like that because because her ass would burn without that Varia suit.

The writer brings up the time period that these characters were made, but if Zero suit samus took the role now in 2012 you would have every womans group talking about how Samus is exploited bla bla.

The point is that Peach and Zelda are not the main heroes of the game. They NEED to be weak or a hero is not needed.

MattS4215d ago

So sexism is justified as long as it's part of the story. Good to know?

omarzy4215d ago

It is not sexism. These characters are just weaker, and if they were men and played the same role in the story then they would also be weaker. Rescuing the princess is a classic in any story telling. Nobody wants to to rescue a man when you could emulate classics like a brave warrior of lower class wins the heart of royalty.

Link is a kid from the forest who finds himself chosen by Gods to rescue the world and go on a huge adventure to save the world and a princess with absolutely no battle experience. What would the Zelda games be if Zelda did not need to be rescued?

It also differs with each game. In Ocarina of Time, Zelda was one of the sages who are the keepers of the Triforce. They greatest power in the world. That is a pretty big role.

Peach just gets overpowered and a guy goes to bring her back.

TheGamingArt4215d ago (Edited 4215d ago )

Did you just call a damsel in distress sexism... you have to be kidding me. Pull your head out of the 60s. This is like calling a black person doing labour racism.

mike1up4215d ago (Edited 4215d ago )

I disagree about Zelda.

In the Legend of Zelda series, Princess Zelda is generally portrayed to be the wisest/most intelligent character. In Oot, even as a child, she is more gifted than the other Sages. In Skyward Sword, she is considered a goddess. There's is more to strength than brute force.

I also find Zelda to be very brave. In the final battles of The Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess, she fights alongside our hero. Princesses usually don't do that, and don't have to.

Lastly, how is it sexist for a female character not to be able to physically "handle" a male on her own? In all fairness, most men are physically stronger than women. Furthermore, Link cannot even handle, or harm, Gannon on his own. He usually gets help (from a woman): Silver Arrows and Golden sword (Alttp), Light Arrows (Oot), Navi (Ooot), Midna and Zelda (TP), Tetra/Zelda (WW)... etc..

omarzy4215d ago

"Lastly, how is it sexist for a female character not to be able to physically "handle" a male on her own?"

I'm not saying it is sexist. I do not think any of these games are sexist. I believe that plot requires Zelda to play the role of the damsel in distress most of the time.

We agree that it is not sexist, but our reasons are very different.

mike1up4215d ago (Edited 4215d ago )

@ omarzy

Yea...

That was a big misread on my part. I really wanted to comment, and jumped the gun there lol. Sorry about that.

ChickeyCantor4215d ago

Peach actually does save Mario at one point....

Neckbear4215d ago (Edited 4215d ago )

Why are feminists such blockheads that seem to be capable of all but building fair and sensible arguments?

Or what, do you really want every game in the world to be a vapid piece of software that specifically caters to your moronic ideals and tastes?

I'm quite sure Nintendo isn't filled with psychopathologic assholes that look to do nothing but objectify women. But, ironically in your argument, you too are treating women in a generalized manner- that which throws away all individualism and instead goes for a set standard born from the idiotic ambitions of a woman with far too much time and the group of equally brainless sheep (both female and, even worse, male) to follow suit.

What a poor piece of journalism this is, forgetting the utmost rule of that profession: impartiality. Forgetting that Nintendo heroines are not only iconic and revered (in ways more than just perversion, imbecile), but even have their own set of spinoffs and other roles that go beyond the conventional. So yes, the man who wrote this article is idiotic, biased, and all-around a terrible human being. Stop posting your worthless opinion on the internet, it's nothing more than something people point and laugh at. And with reason.

P.S.: This won't get you anything, man. Don't fall so low.

@MattS

Oh, but I have assisted to a sociology course before. I would never assist to something as ridiculous as a feminist center of indoctrination, though.

I like how you blame me of playing my way into authority, yet you attempt to criticize me with your almighty knowledge derived from a hour-long course on how women are obviously superior to you in every way imaginable. Feminism is a doctrine where those who apply it criticize all but themselves, obviously drunk in ego and vocal power. And, honestly, it's disgusting. If you truly took a sociology course, as you said you did, you'd realize that feminism falls in one of the worst kind of ideologies, being as bad as blind faith or political fanaticism. It's a dogma that literally no one should abide by, at the very least in not such extreme (and, truth be told, completly ridiculous) ways as you do in this piece of badly written opinions.

And yet you have the guts to call my interpretation equal to one of high school when you base yours on petty generalizations. Wow.

Oh, and last I checked, opinion pieces are best left to the people who have to say something, which is why you will almost never see a journalist actually write one of those unless it's their blog, and even then. Besides, no, journalism IS news reporting, most of all. It's the vigorous responsability of informing, not opining. Unless your journalism class was dictated by a jackass with no actual merit for the career.

But thank you for being such a try-hard. You've made my night, good man. I will continue to laugh at you, and so will others.

MattS4215d ago

You haven't done a sociology or feminism course before, have you?

No, of course you haven't. Given that you use abusive language to try and condescend your way into a position of authority, it's unlikely you have any kind of tertiary qualifications.

But anyway, for the sake of debate, I'll enlighten you. Feminism is more interested in criticising the kind of cultural values that has led to the likes of the Mario series, and the kind of people such as yourself. We live in a culture that is more than happy to come up with excuses for why the established gender roles are the way they are, and is downright hostile to anyone who would question them (you know, by being abusive and condescending).

No one ever said that Nintendo is staffed by people who are outwardly sexist. That would be silly to even suggest (oh, sorry, you did suggest it). No. But Nintendo's employees live and work in Japan, a cultural environment that still has a deep gender divide.

Notice how the issue is getting a little more complex than your high-school interpretation? Ok, good.

Now let's not even start to pull apart the ridiculous assumption that the only purpose of journalism is to be impartial. Clearly you haven't done a course in journalism either, because otherwise you would realise that news reporting is a subset of journalism that ethically values impartiality, but criticism and editorial writing are both, by very nature, opinion pieces.

This is what happens when people who have no qualifications in a topic (or two topics, in this case) try and criticise those that know what they're talking about.

Monkeycan84215d ago

Who the hell really cares. you seem to be just as sexist as they "guys" you all always blabber on about.

Bimkoblerutso4214d ago

Come on dude. Don't pull that "I took a class in college," crap. Don't you realize how ridiculously pretentious you sound at this point?

prototypeknuckles4215d ago

okay peach and depending on which version of zelda it is ill give you but what the heck is wrong with samus, granted she wasnt her best in other M but thats only one game.

amaguli4215d ago

You kind of answer your own question in the article when you say it is a cultural thing. Japan is traditional, the men go out and work, and the women stay home.

However, that is slowly changing in their society, but it just comes down to cultural differences.

Show all comments (35)
80°

Nintendo's Massacre Of The 3DS And Wii U Is Finally Complete, Regrettably

Hanzala from eXputer: "The cruel hammer of Nintendo has fallen. Farewell, 3DS and Wii U, you surely brightened my life and many others; you won't be forgotten."

280°

Xbox's Preservation Step Sets A Much-Needed Example, Especially For Nintendo

Hanzla from eXputer inquires: "If Xbox can care about preserving its games and legacy, what exactly is wrong with Nintendo, trying to kill game preservation single-handedly?"

purple10111d ago

Ahh yes the good old game preservation of saving all your games to a removable hhd on the Xbox 360, taking it round your mates house, setting up multiple tvs to
Be met with “save data corrupted, please re download”

Or how about removing 360 games
From the store
, download them now or else, and, better hope to god that save data doesn’t corrupt, or it’s lost for ever

Nice one ☝️

Zeref10d ago

It's better than what Nintendo and Playstation is doing. It might not be perfect but at least they are TRYING. Unlike the others.

DarXyde10d ago

Trying? Take off the blinders for a moment, mate.

1. A failure to preserve games is just that: a failure to preserve games. Don't try to sugarcoat it: NO ONE is doing it properly. Better than awful is nothing to write home about.

2. At the time of this comment, isn't it the case that you need an internet connection to play Xbox games even if you buy physical discs that are hardly in circulation anymore? I don't have a Series X and I can't verify, but I think that is correct. I'm fairly certain you can at least play PS5 games at version 1.0 (not much of a win really when many games require day one patches). I think Microsoft's all digital, licensing approach is by far more aggressive than anyone else's. They really try to push you to game pass where you lose your entire library by umm.... Skipping a month of payments.

I don't think anyone is doing it right whatsoever. Don't get me started on Nintendo, who goes after anyone looking to preserve their games better than they ever would with extreme litigation.

Don't be a simp for any of these companies. Get it together.

PhillyDonJawn10d ago (Edited 10d ago )

@DarX never speak on Xbox again. You lost all credibility with your internet connection comment. Smh you have 0 clue and misinformed yet speaking on something you don't no squat about.

Einhander197210d ago

What has Sony done exactly? You guys keep deflecting to Sony but I am not actually seeing any results, and ai am certain nothing that you can come up with even comes close to what Microsoft has done and what they have tried and failed to do, like tie all your disks to your account on xbone.

Microsoft removed their whole indie section when they moved to the xbone because they were going to only allow games on the service that came from a publisher, id@xbox started after xbone launched and it only exists because Sony embraced indie and Microsoft was forced to cancel their plans and reverse course.

And every single game that was part of games for windows live including disk games (I have gta 4 on disk that won't work) so hundreds of games that use that DRM no longer work unless the company themselves patched it out which of course very few did.

MrBaskerville10d ago

Not trying. Tried. they killed of the backcomp program years ago. They set something up again, but sounds like it's more of an attempt to save the current library on whatever they are planning next. With luck they save everything and more, but let's see. I could see them killing off parts of the OG xbox and 360 libraries. Can't imagine that they would allow us to play Forza 5-7 in the future.

With that said, I do like what they've done and really wish they could have done more.

shinoff218310d ago

Zeref

So killing off physical media is trying what exactly. Ms don't really give a fk if you think they do your kidding yourself.

Profchaos10d ago

They are not trying this team is established for forward compatability the team is. It interested in preserving Xbox or 360 games.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 10d ago
isarai11d ago

Is that why Hellblade 2 is digital only?

Zeref10d ago

Just because it's digital only doesn't mean you can't preserve it. Just put it on an external and you have the exact same functionality of what a disc does.

MrNinosan10d ago

Guess you're trolling, but if you actually think that's how it works, I'd recommend buying some braincells.

mkis00710d ago (Edited 10d ago )

Volitile vs nonvolitile data. A disc will not corrupt either. A drive can be corrupted.

Einhander197211d ago

This is just a scammy PR move to distract from the fact they are going digital only and trying to push streaming and subscriptions only.

No gaming company has pushed harder to remove ownership than Microsoft.

Without discs there is no preservation, preservation can't be done by the rights holders it can only be done by the consumers, anything else is a lie.

11d ago Replies(3)
Einhander197211d ago

Anyone remember xblig which Microsoft removed their whole 360 indie section removing hundreds of games from people?

11d ago
11d ago
Zeref10d ago

Do you know you can put your games on an external and preserve them that way? There are no benefits to discs. ZERO. Idk why some of you are still obsessed with them.

DarXyde10d ago

Because games like Persona 5 exist. It's STILL V1.00. On Playstation, that's a win because 1.00 is installed on the disc—no need to download anything.

If a game does not require any updates, it's all on the disc.

Extremely low bar in the modern era, of course. It's not much of a win by any stretch.

But for now, physical media does have a purpose, at least on Playstation.

Einhander197210d ago

That is factually not how game licensing works, try plugging your hard drive into someone else xbox, It's not going to work, and it won't work if the licensing servers ever go down.

Einhander197210d ago

Anyone remember games for windows live.

I have around a dozen games, some on Steam itself that will not work because Microsoft shut off the licensing servers.

BehindTheRows10d ago (Edited 10d ago )

I do. I STILL have games (Gears of War being the big one) I cannot access because Games for Windows LIVE is total garbage and no one has held Microsoft accountable.

Zeref10d ago (Edited 10d ago )

You don't have an Xbox apparently. Because you can 100 percent plug in your external and play games from it on any Xbox console lol. You just have to be logged in to prove ownership.

Chevalier10d ago

"You don't have an Xbox apparently. Because you can 100 percent plug in your external and play games from it on any Xbox console lol. You just have to be logged in to prove ownership."

Damn how many times do people got to explain your idiocy to you? You can take a copy of Persona 5 like someone used as an example and play that game on ANY console WITHOUT logging in which means I can lend the game to a friend without internet and they can play my game. Can you lend your hard drive to anyone without logging in for them to play? NOPE. That is a huge difference and if you think otherwise then sorry you're an idiot.

Tacoboto10d ago

"No gaming company has pushed harder to remove ownership than Microsoft."

Ubisoft is literally erasing games people bought from their libraries... My PS1-3 discs are useless on modern hardware. Nintendo's re-published and resold almost their entire Wii U library, and the eShop is completely dead with no BC mechanism in the Switch software. Microsoft publishes everything they make today day one on Steam and Xbox/Windows. Sony only brings to PC the titles they think you might want some years later and Nintendo won't even design a functional long-lasting joystick.

You're absolutely trolling and not serious if you think Microsoft today is the worst offender.

shinoff218310d ago

Yay steam

Not everyone fks with computers though. The disc is still the best way as a console player. Period.

Tacoboto10d ago

How do Sony and Nintendo feel about these discs from 2001-2013?

Don't be stupid, you know Xbox is the best at this today.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 10d ago
Hofstaderman10d ago

Nobody wants this. Sales or the lack of it in the case of XBOX is very telling. I wonder how the adorably all digital series X will fare. Adorably dismal perhaps?

crazyCoconuts10d ago

Only time will tell, but for from someone like me suspecting that Xbox is trying to gracefully exit the console market, that "forward compatibility" team is trying to get Xbox games playing on Windows PCs. I mean, it's nice that they're not planning on exiting with a "enjoy your games while the hardware still works" message, so that's nice. They still have a brand to protect via Microsoft so probably feel obligated to have a better exit strategy.

Xeofate10d ago (Edited 10d ago )

That is not their plan, their plan is to transfer users accounts to the cloud.

Phil Spencer himself said as much a few months back, plans could have changed but I think people are reading way too much into one statement where Phil said he would allow Epic on xbox because he wants to be able to sell xbox games directly on other platforms. Aka, instead of selling Sea of Thives through PSN he wants to have an xbox store to sell his games on PlayStation without giving PlayStation any money.

Again, it's extremely unlikely that Phil plans to put PC on xbox and licensing would prevent them from just giving out other publishers games purchased on xbox copies of thier games on PC, Microsoft does not own their games.

crazyCoconuts9d ago

The thing that doesn't align with the cloud strategy is the giving up on exclusives. You'd still need strong exclusives for cloud streaming - it's still a "platform" , just with a lower upfront hardware investment. I feel like they've learned what PS learned with PSNow long ago. We're not ready to stream games and it's only gonna lose them money to try at this point

FinalFantasyFanatic10d ago

I would love that, I'd buy up some of the Xbox games if they could run on PC, like the Rare Replay, Lost Odyssey and Dead or Alive Ultimate, probably a pipe dream though.

Show all comments (43)
90°

Nintendo's War Against Player-Made Content Will Hurt The Company In The End

Danish from eXputer: "Nintendo has historically gone against player-made content and emulation of its games. This has done much to harm the company's image."

XiNatsuDragnel17d ago

I agree nintendo hire some these folks to help in your games it'll help imo.

banger8817d ago

They need to stop announcing these mods and fan remakes until they're finished. Finish it, upload it, and then if Nintendo dmca's it tough shit. Once it's online, people can share it around, even if the original download gets taken down.

Jingsing16d ago

True, but most modders need constant admiration during the process to motivate them.

PRIMORDUS16d ago

Yup, once it's a torrent nothing can be done Nintendo is helpless at that point. But it would be wise if they just had a site on the dark web, it's also easy to use with Tor and no one will bother you.

mastershredder16d ago

This is all coming from the mouth of short-sighted fandom and grifting madness.
No.... it wont. There is a clear defined reason why they don't. This is nothing new. Make your own shi7 from your own original ideas especially if you are trying to capitalize of it it. Duh.

Yeah, hire people that have zero respect or understanding for an established process. Wow. Yep. Totally makes sense.

shinoff218316d ago

Those guys that made that sonic game got a gig from sega or something along those lines and that game was dope as hell. One of the best sonics as of late.