Sony's steep learning process

Can the firm grasp how much the market has changed - in time to save the floundering Vita?

[DiRtY]

The Vita is the very definition of how Sony lost the connection to the market.

It is a complete failure (saleswise). It is selling below Dreamcast sales figures.

[zebramocha]

@dirty Yeah,one year sells tells us that the vita is a failure,once you finished running your console business you should acquire Sony's game division and better than they can.

@Cato Majie comment was a counter to dirty's,I don't know what your post has to do with majie because his comment wasn't as bad as dirty.

@cato at one point it was but looking at the post number I see that I was wrong my bad.

[Catoplepas]

What are you talking about? I was obviously replying to Dirty.

If I were replying to majie then my post would of been under his.

[wastedcells]

So tired of these articles. They said the same thing about psp, 3DS, ps3 and so on. First year sales on a new console or hand held can be slow sometimes, so what, people buy in when prices drop or their favorite games come out. These stupid articles are just a desperate cry for attention. They will get hits on their site and that's all they are looking for.

[InsaneChronos]

Sales is not a definition of connection to the market. Vita is great portable gaming platform with a growing number of great games. What else do you consumers want?

[Anon1974]

I asked this in another article and perhaps you could comment as you've obviously got it all figured out.

Looking at Nintendo and Sony's figures, since the PS Vita launched worldwide at the end of Feb it moved approx 2 million units to the end of June (bear in mind, these are rough estimates). The $80 cheaper 3DS moved approx 2.5 million in the same time frame and given that no one is complaining about 3DS sales during this period, it's assumed that's an acceptable figure for the $170 3DS.

We know the Vita is doomed and sales are dismal because we're reminded of it multiple times a day. Realistically, it's not going to outsell the 3DS with an $80 price difference, so what would be acceptable figures for the Vita? Where's the line between "doomed" and "hey everyone, it's ok!". If it had sold an extra 100k during that period? 250k during that period? What are we talking here?

Everyone seems to have it made up in their minds that the Vita is a sales disaster (except Sony and industry analysts. Those fools!) but I've never seen anyone say what the Vita should be selling.

I'm not saying the Vita is selling great by any stretch of the imagination though, don't get me wrong. Back in Feb, analysts said it'd be great if the Vita hit 12 million for the fiscal year, but they could only do that with a price cut. Sony revised their forecast to 10 million with no price cut in sight, which really isn't that far off initial analyst predictions that no one seemed to take issue with at the time. I'm just wondering of those who think Vita sales are terrible, what should the Vita be selling? It's a legitimate question.

[Blankman85]

Can we haz a source on that 2.5 million for 3DS, cause last I checked 3DS was in the double digits millions already and you do not achieve that by selling only 2.5 million in 4 months.

[wastedcells]

People seem to forget the 3DS came out with really bad sales and they ended up discounting $100. Then had to give the people that paid full pop like 10 free downloadable games or something.

[profgerbik]

This is so wrong you dumb asses said the same shit about the PS3 oddly it has been the most sold console for about two and half years now.

OK... I'll listen to your idiotic prejudgement even though the Dreamcast wasn't even a failure. Everything you know and love today about gaming came from exactly just that the Dreamcast, whether you choose to believe it or not it did, all your Nintendo crap was on the dreamcast first even the crap Microsoft and Sony use all started from the Dreamcast.

So if that has anything to do with your analogy of Sony then I guess they are doing good in my eyes even if they did fail.

I can't stand idiots like you who cannot appreciate that instead all you care about is throwing numbers around like it means shit in todays society.

Sales aren't everything. Only Nintendo people give a shit about sales, I give a shit about good games and Playstation offers and always has offered just that.

Regardless I have never played any other consoles more than Sony's and that says something and I am sure many others can say the same.

I am still rehashing through old Playstation games that truly defined gaming as a whole. Take it how you want it but sales aren't shit especially not in this age of stupidity.

That is like saying 50cent is actually a good musician because he has sold a lot of records. How dumb are people these days? It doesn't mean shit other than the saddening fact there are bunch of morons that exist in this today's world.

[Gridloc]

Vita's first holiday season is close and we'll see what Sony has learned.

[telekineticmantis]

Hardcore gaming suffers, so I'll get a vita first and get a WiiU later, can't really get a WiiU now anyway.

[stragomccloud]

Agreed. Without any of the big 3 gaming suffers though. They all keep each other on their toes.

[MrDead]

Another Sony doom article from JadedXGamer, you would think only unbiased members would be allowed to post on N4G otherwise the site just turns into a s**t slinging contest.

[Catoplepas]

I happen to agree with you, but since there's no empirical measure of "bias" it's impossible to discern the bad eggs from the good.

Besides, bias and hate and the viscous greases used to keep the cogs of N4G turning. Without them this place would be a veritable ghost town.

Depressing ain't it?

[MrDead]

bias and hate have made a once good site into a mess. You have to trawl through endless flamebait articles and opinion pieces to get any real news and the comment section has turned into a playground where kids are running around hating and flicking each other in the balls because they own different systems.

"it's impossible to discern the bad eggs from the good", just look at the comment history.

[stragomccloud]

Just thoght it as funny the name matches the feeling I get from this guy: "JadedXGamer."

[maniacmayhem]

Well then we have to ask, "who is truly unbiased on THIS site?"

I would like to to think i am unbiased but even I admit that I lean more toward the 360 side. Does this mean I shouldn't post or submit any news about sony or only post if it's good news?

[MrDead]

I myself lean more towards the PS3 but I don’t hate every other system because of this. Read JadedXGamer's comments and post, if you’re anything like him I wouldn't let you post anything about any system. I think if you've lost all your bubbles because of trolling then you shouldn't be allowed to post.

I think posters should have a balance in their articles and opinions not just be on some vendetta because you don’t like a company, I think members that do just turn this site into a slugging match.

I don’t have any issue with this article just the poster and his lack of balance.

[stragomccloud]

Honestly, I think the Vita is a slow burn. I think it'll be like the PS3, sure it might have a rough time out of the gate, but it's library is going to become something truly unique, and it'll remembered as one of the greats.

[Pizza]

Most people play on smartphone actually. What is the selling point for vita? Very hard for Sony.

[RubyToTheMax]

I don't know any human being that plays games on a smartphone for more than 20 minutes, and they only do so to kill time, whether it be on the bus or taking a dump. They are not interested in playing the game and enjoying it, but rather they're just killing time and do not care about the experience.

Where as when you have a dedicated handheld, it's a totally different experience, and you're actually immersed into the game without thinking about time. Buttons, analogs, touch inputs, and other features make a huge difference when playing a game. Smartphones do not offer gaming inputs like this. Smartphones do not offer triple AAA quality games that will give you days, months, and years of enjoyment.

What is the selling point for the PSVita? Gaming. Gaming that other handheld devices will never offer. You can have your fancy smartphones with next gen hardware, but they will still not have buttons, or analog sticks, or the games that are only available for handheld gaming devices.

Playing games on a cell phone is a waste of time. Mindlessly, repeatedly, continuously, touching the screen like an idiot.

[tubers]

And thus: a niche market.. gravely so because of the platform price.

Numbers don't lie in this case.

I am pretty confident there are more people who already have enough "core gaming" needs provided by home consoles.. who can consider the VITA platform price palatable.

With that being said, I still think Sony should still somewhat stick with their "core" strategy to differentiate themselves from the market. I just hope they don't completely lose (w/c is subjective) this time around.

Meeting Sony's sales target would be enough for me right now. Their company isn't in the best position atm.

[ChunkyLover53]

The definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Personally I think Sony keeps making a lot of the same mistakes with the launches of their consoles. The PS3 was super expensive (No butts about it) and they lacked games for the first couple of years.

What does Sony do with the Vita? launches it at a price point that the 3DS just flopped at! Once again too high of a price point (No butts about it) and no games.

Were even getting the same third party threats about dropping support for the system that the PS3 got.

I wish Sony would just look back to what made them great with the PS1/PS2. Affordable consoles and they were all about the games. All types of games, games for every type of person. My mother had a PS1/PS2, she went with a Wii this generation.

[zebramocha]

The 3ds didn't sell because of lack of games and high the vita has a similar problem but it's more of,the lack proper game is different genre and ones that uses its capabilities,the is priced right in comparison to tablets/mobile and the 3ds.

[Christopher]

1. You can't make a glaring statement about launching at the same price. The Vita is a more powerful piece of hardware that is capable of doing more than the 3DS. To say that it launched at a price that was the same doesn't mean that that price isn't what it is worth. I do agree that lower cost will help drive sales, but that doesn't mean that it is a good business decision.

2. Vita had more games at launch than the 3DS. A lot more, in fact. The problem is it has lost momentum due to not taking off quickly.

3. If you're going to throw out a similarity between threats of dropping support as the PS3, you might not want to compare it to a system that has more software sales per year than its opponent does now. Sure, the PS3 doesn't sell the most for big titles, but it sells more on average and has a much higher attachment rate than the 360.

4. It's not Sony's fault that their system is splintered. It's the third-parties following their desired audience. You're going to sell more kid games on the Wii than you will on the 360 or PS3, so that's where those go. You're going to sell more hardcore games on the 360 and PS3, so that's where those games go. It was easy for Sony back then because there was practically no competition and everyone of all audiences used it for their gaming needs. Sony can't prevent competition from creeping into an industry that they helped grow into the third largest entertainment field in the world, so it's not like they could control where people go with their games or what types of consoles others make.

[ChunkyLover53]

I don't really feel like posting a wall of text with you, but I will say that I own 225 Xbox 360 games and 35 PS3 games.

It doesn't really matter how much tech is inside, the price is too high for the average gamer to give it interest. I bought a 3DS when the price dropped, I'd buy a Vita if the price dropped and they added a memory card it.

SSDD in my opinion for Sony.

[Christopher]

Okay, I own more than 200 PS3 games and about 40 360 games. I don't see what that brings to the conversation, but I shared in like. It also does nothing to support your position on the Vita...

It does matter how much tech is inside. Saying otherwise is just silly and absurd. It's why people question the price of the Wii U, the 3DS, the PS Vita, the 360, and the PS3. It's why any technology device is questioned for its cost. It's why iPhones costing more than same quality or even better Android phones get criticized.

Also, the Vita comes with a memory card in the standard bundle. Just a 4GB size one when some games need more space.

Great that you have such a great outlook on Sony, but you seem a bit biased in your view since you denounce technology as an element to determine cost and thereby price.

As I said earlier here and many times before, I agree that the Vita will do much better at a $199 or less price, but that doesn't mean it's not worth the $250 price it currently sits at. And, I highly doubt you or I, sitting in our chairs at home or work that involves something other than game manufacturing and producing, are likely to know more about how to price such a device in this economic time as those who work for Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony. I'm sure they'd all wish they could sell them at a price ridiculously below their competitors price and still at a profit. And, sure, I'm sure they'd love to be secure enough in the potential for sales of games to make back money by underpricing their device, but in an age with smartphones, tablets, and the 3DS... I'm thinking that decision isn't as clear and cut as some may make it out to be.

[Blankman85]

There are more xbox 360 games per console than there are ps3 games per console. Xbox 360 has a higher attach rate plain and simple.
Every single western multiplat publisher sells more 360 games than PS3 games.

[Christopher]

Sorry, Ndivhu, that's just not correct.

http://www.psuni.com/ps3-so...

NA Alone
http://www.gamasutra.com/ph...

http://www.gamasutra.com/vi...
"With the exceptions of Bulletstorm and Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, every game here performed better on the PlayStation 3 than the ratio of installed hardware bases would suggest."

The only way the 360 wins in attach rate is if you take lifetime sales, but even then it's an ever shrinking margin as game sales tend to be on par from PS3 to 360 each year.. But, if you do that, you're doing it wrong. Per year, the PS3 attach rate since 2009 has been greater than the 360.

The reason? Europe. They buy a ton of sport games on the PS3 as well more there buy for PS3 over 360 for their general gaming needs as well.

[chrisarsenalsavart]

What are you talking about?
You comparre the vita with the 3ds ?
Why don,t you compare the price of the wiiu with the one of the wii while you re at it.

Seriously you pathetic.
Sony always make the same mistakes. So far all their consoles have been more than successful. So please, why don,t you all keep quiet and let sony run the show.
17 years nearly 400 million consoles sold. Not bad for a company who doesn,t know what they re doing.

[wastedcells]

The vita price point was considered fair by most critics and fans so I don't agree. Also the vita had a great launch line up with more games in the launch window. But fast forward to the last couple months and it has been slow agreed.

[thebudgetgamer]

"The foundering Vita"?

[PS4OUR]

LESSONS NOT LEARNED:
Expensive proprietary memory cards.

Poor to non-existant marketing.

Some expensive games.

Vita unit also expensive.

From a Sony fan, it pains me to see Sony fail at things in gaming. The PS3 has been hauled over the coals in its early years, just about pulled from the ashes in the past few years. The Vita is not yet a complete failure but you'd have to be blind not to see the Vita struggling at the moment.

This is something Sony could have totally avoided. Those rediculously expensive proprietary memory cards is the one thing that put me off buying a Vita.
The lack of good AAA games is another.

Vita has all the power just sitting there but its like a Ferrari fitted with go-kart wheels. Hamstrung by mistakes and poor decisions in how its marketed (or lack thereof) and price issues concerning memory cards, games etc.

Im a firm believer that this will be the last traditional handheld generation. Tablets and smartphones are taking over.

The next gen handheld from Sony will be a tablet/smartphone hybrid. Basically a more powerful Xperia smartphone with a huge tablet like screen that can power advanced games.

Here's to hoping they bring about a change in how they run and operate this playstation business where they do not put themselves under pressure.

[LiquidSword93]

I swear some users just disagree for the hell of it. Everything you said was true and factual yet u got dissed. *facepalm*

[profgerbik]

Get over the fucking memory cards. They aren't over priced you moron.

Go tell me how much a 32GB SD card cost brand new in any store or even online. It will be near if not more than $80, unless you are buying it used or from ebay or some crap.

So what is the point of complaining about the price, the only thing anyone should be complaining about is not the price itself is the fact the Vita came with no memory card at all.

You can be stupid all you want because clearly it seems you only listen to what everyone else cries. The memory cards cost literally just as much as a SD card. So there is no problem with the price, only the problem the Vita comes with none and you can't use your old SD cards.

Let's explain why though, we all know the PSP and we all probably had one that was hacked to play pirated games completely free. So with that in mind Sony had to try and at least stop the pirating from happening with the Vita and they did just that, they have made it near impossible at the moment to use pirated games let alone transfer them to the system.

If you were Sony you would have done the exact same thing and honestly they knew people would probably bitch about the Vita's price also which they did, so adding a memory card in the package wouldn't have made it any cheaper. Either way you would have still payed for it.

Get off the band wagon and think for yourself for god sakes, Sony is doing just fine. It is todays stupid age of smart phone madness that is hindering everything, all anyone cares about these days are smart phones even more than consoles, handhelds or games in general.

Wait and see for christmas how many people will actually be buying too many consoles. The Wii U is an exception because it has already been sold but I promise you not too many will be because every little boy or girl will want an iphone 5 for Christmas if they have not already got one.

To say the newer handheld later on by Sony will be a tablet/smartphone hybrid is beyond stupid to begin with in so many ways. Everything even consoles all copy one individual device we have used forever now that people like you clearly have forgetten. The thing you probably were on to write this comment, your PC.

Everything we know today came from PC's then Consoles then Phones. The order is obvious because phones were last, never that advanced until some what recently even when consoles and PC's we already doing all of that which they do now.

Smartphones are Small PC's that can make phone calls, why the hell would Sony make something that has been copying them for over years now let alone copying everything PC has offered.

There isn't many mistakes about the Vita other than it not coming with a free memory card, it is designed very well and is not crappy by any means. The only.. literally the only thing I will say that could be improved on the Vita is the directional pad but honestly who the hell even uses a directional pad anymore? Unless they are playing fighting games for the most part.

Vita is not by any means expensive, if you owned one you would know it is worth the price and is by no mean unreasonable. Anyone who does, has said the same. Even I thought it was over priced, but once I used it I realized it was very fair pricing and not as bad as their attempt at trying to sell the PS3 for $600, nor are the games expensive considering they are very close to PS3 quality in terms of gaming on a handheld in general which is amazing.

Get off the rumors and stupidity already. They aren't under pressure either the only thing they are struggling at is trying to keep gaming alive in a ever evolving world of stupidity where people think smart phones are the only thing worth paying any attention to.

[profgerbik]

What baffles me the most is that they will ban HipHopGamer but they won't ban this douche tool JadedXGamer?

He has talked shit in almost everything he comments on and he is allowed to even post articles on this site? Yea N4G isn't racists or they just truly don't give a shit about keeping this place clean.

There is enough retardation of hate through the comments, we don't need ass clowns starting more by making articles that only aim at just that.

[PS4OUR]

@profgerbik:
Try and be an adult and refrain from namecalling as it makes you look very immature.

Do a quick google search and see how tablets and smartphones are on the rise in terms of everything. Gaming, Apps, Media.

Sony needs to adapt to the market. Handhelds are not going to stay dedicated gaming machines. Why on earth does the Vita then support some android apps. That alone should tell you that the view of the traditional handheld is all but dead. Alot of people game on smartphones and tablets. Handhelds are going to have to incorporate features from tablets and smartphones to stay current with the pack or they will be left behind as technology progresses. Just use a little bit of common sense, its not that hard.

Its not too hard to see that these devices are becoming increasingly more powerful so one day they will be able to run console like graphics just fine with the added bonus of having apps and other multimedia functions not relating to gaming.

In future the tablet and/or smartphones (which funnily enough is steadily growing in size) will be all you need in your home. Yes i said it, desktops will soon be under threat from these devices as well.
Desktops wont entirely disappear but it will take a backseat to these devices as the number 1 all-in-one device in the home that you can also take with you wherever you go.

Having to be able to take your tablet with you on the road, then come home and use the same device as your set top box or media player to play back HD content on your HDTV is the future we are headed towards.

I will bet my house on this happening. Tablets are the future.

[mananimal]

Steep Learning Process? NAY, more like "deliberate" destruction, why u ask?, if I told you, You wouldnt believe me anyhow lol, The Truth? is UGLY, too ugly for sheeple.