Why Sony, and the PlayStation brand, could be in more trouble than you think

Ben Kuchera of PAR writes: "The video game industry is competitive, and you often have to be willing to lose vast amounts of money before you begin to turn a profit. Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all have different strategies to deal with this reality, but Sony is in a uniquely poor position heading into this holiday season and may have already all but given up on the PlayStation 3. Of the three companies that are creating and marketing gaming consoles, Sony has the most challenges heading into the next generation.

Let’s dive into what Sony has to overcome in order to gain dominance in 2013."

[yesmynameissumo]

This dude really bugs me. Somehow, he's a business analyst. Only problem is he's not objective in the slightest (never mind not qualified either). It's doom and gloom. It's Sony spin. It's "Games perform better on Microsoft hardware". Yeah...in 2008. I wish more of the "journalists" would step into 2012 and report accordingly. Somehow, the opinion of a disgruntled ex-employee is news worthy. A $269 PS3 bundle isn't priced to compete with a 8GB, $300 Wii U or $400 360 Halo 4 bundle. Wha?! Ben, gimme the crystal ball you're looking into so I could pull the PowerBall numbers.

[iamnsuperman]

Your avatar compliments this comment very well. I agree with you. Problem with gaming journalist is they think they are very knowledgeable about everything gaming related with out being qualified in a certain field. For instance in actual journalism the journalist has a background in business if they are reporting on business related stuff

[scotchmouth]

Recycled headline. Recycled logic

[Hatsune-Miku]

Why Sony, and the PlayStation brand might be doing better than you think.

Strong gaming infrastructure, software, quality, core gamers,

[pixelsword]

Isn't this the came site that put out all of those anti-PS3 cartoons?

I don't know if I could call them a balanced source.

[DragonKnight]

Wow, as soon as I read this...

"This is spin, pure and simple. Sony has lost this generation, and there is no reason to lower the price and lose more money than necessary."

I knew that this article was going to be full of it. Immense bias exists in this article and no one should expect objectivity.

Funny, I didn't know that this gen was over. Have the big 3 all released their next gen consoles? No. Have MS and Sony announced their next gen consoles? No. So explain to me how anyone has won or lost anything in a race that isn't over.

All the people griping over Vita are hypocrites and need to shut up. Everyone clapped at the price of Vita at E3 and only started whining when Nintendo couldn't sell their marginal upgrade to the DS for the same price. Hypocrites the lot of them.

I usually would tear apart such an article but there is just too much fail to go over and I'm tired. Seriously, this is just the biggest fail of an article I've seen in awhile.

[sikbeta]

I hope they (Sony) get over this, I don't want them to go down, this gen became pretty good for the simple fact that companies were "forced" to *compete* and that's a win for gamers, IF Sony really goes down, I'll have MS or Nintendo for my gaming needs, but the more companies fighthing for my bucks, the best for me.

[UnwanteDreamz]

Ben Kuchera isn't qualified to forcast the future of SCE or its affiliates. Mr. Kuchera is an editor for a fancy game blog that features only stories written by him.

Amateur jurnos

[Jazz4108]

Its more of a problem with fanboys then jornalist as tbey both really dont have anything positive to say.

[YodaCracker]

@DragonKnight

This gen is all but over. Not much can change at this point. And the facts are:

Nintendo quadrupled GameCube sales with the Wii.
Microsoft tripled Xbox sales with the Xbox 360.
and
Sony halved PS2 sales with the PS3

It is very clear who the winners and loser of this gen are. Nintendo made a huge comeback while Microsoft solidified themselves as a real competitor in the industry with so much momentum going into next gen. Today, the PlayStation brand is nowhere near as powerful as it once had been. Xbox is the go-to console for the hardcore and Nintendo is reeling in all the casuals. Where does PlayStation fit in anymore? It seems Sony is going to have a real struggle in the coming years.

[Ult iMate]

@YodaCracker
And that is what saddens me more in this gen: gamers shift from just playing good games to playing games of famous brands, famous franchises, big sales and big advertising campaignes. Noone care for a good game anymore, if it doesn't have any of mentioned features.

[PS-Analog]

Sony have just released a re-model of the PS3, lower cost to make, kept the price pretty much the same and left themselves with room for (a) price drop(s).

I think Sony are in the best place they have been for a long time.

[DragonKnight]

@Yodacracker: Nice spin there, very well done. Unfortunately the moment you posted this...

"Xbox is the go to console for the hardcore"

I decided that your comment was completely irrelevant due to your ignorance. Clearly the Xbox WAS the go to console for the hardcore, but it's not anymore. You see, your spin can try to paint this generation however you really want it to look but I can use spin to.

Nintendo quadrupled sales of the gamecube but lost 3rd party support and today the Wii is largely ignored.

MS tripled Xbox sales but cast aside the core audience that made the 360 successful in favor of following Nintendo's success and going casual. As a result they offer very little first party core exclusive titles. Titles that define a console. Instead they pay for everyone else's hard work instead of actually working on their own games. Content to squeeze out as much money as they can from a userbase that gets very little console defining experiences, MS has successfully brought their PC business model to consoles but with a far tighter grip.

PS3 sold half of PS2 but the PS brand is still the only brand to sell over 300 million consoles while only having 3 consoles from the brand. Sony have struck a successful balance of first and third party games and haven't let up in that approach. Sony started off slowly due to heavy arrogance but humbled themselves and proven they listen to what their audience, both core and casual, really want. The PS3 offers the most value for your dollar and offers so many discounts and free material it's insane.

So how do you want to define winners? Nintendo for selling just about 100 million Wii's (large part due to celebrities like Oprah) but having virtually no third party support.

MS for successfully convincing people that they have to pay twice to play online and thus making themselves a lot of money that they use to buy third party content rather than fund first party content?

Or Sony for being neck and neck with MS in console sales, offering the most console defining experiences, yet being "last" in total sales despite outselling the 360 at every opportunity globally and at a faster pace since the 360 actually had competition?

Up to you, but I think that I know what you'd say if you could. But given that you have one bubble, you can't reply.

[creatchee]

@DragonKnight

You disregard his entire comment because of his claim that 360 is the go-to console for the hardcore gamer?

First, and this is just plain logic, just because you disagree with one part of somebody's argument does not mean that the entirety of that argument is negated.

Second, do you know what a hardcore gamer is? It's somebody who dedicates significant time and money to their hobby of gaming. It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the type of games that they choose to play. You can be a hardcore Kinect or Move or even iOS gamer if you fit the specifications.

Finally, you cannot sweep 3rd party content under the rug as easily as you do and remain logical. The amount of 3rd party or multiplatform games outnumber console-exclusives at least by 90%. You could never play an exclusive and still be a hardcore gamer.

Exclusives and "hardcore" (as you're likely defining them) games are great, but they're not the only games worth playing or playing a great deal.

[DragonKnight]

@creatchee: "You disregard his entire comment because of his claim that 360 is the go-to console for the hardcore gamer?"

I read his whole comment, but that one part of it told me what I needed to know and that was the bias he showed.

"First, and this is just plain logic, just because you disagree with one part of somebody's argument does not mean that the entirety of that argument is negated."

Never said that.

"Second, do you know what a hardcore gamer is? It's somebody who dedicates significant time and money to their hobby of gaming. It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the type of games that they choose to play. You can be a hardcore Kinect or Move or even iOS gamer if you fit the specifications."

I used hardcore in the context he presented it. Blame him.

"Finally, you cannot sweep 3rd party content under the rug as easily as you do and remain logical. The amount of 3rd party or multiplatform games outnumber console-exclusives at least by 90%. You could never play an exclusive and still be a hardcore gamer.

Exclusives and "hardcore" (as you're likely defining them) games are great, but they're not the only games worth playing or playing a great deal."

Actually I can easily sweep them under the rug because 3rd party games aren't console defining experiences, which is what I said. Can you prove that MS have console defining multiplat games? No, of course you can't. If you're happy with the 360 being defined by 4 games, then by all means accept such small offerings. The rest of us will be over hear with too many console defining exclusive games.

[DragonKnight]

@DK: The PS3 has 4 console defining franchises? LMAO! Wow, that comment right there renders everything else you say pointless. I knew you were ignorant, but I didn't know you were THAT ignorant. I could list all of the console defining experiences for the PS3, but then you wouldn't learn anything on your own. For now I'll give you ONE example and hope that you are smart enough to find the rest on your own. LittleBigPlanet.

If you want to be an MS spokesperson, just go to their site and apply for a job. Doing it for free here just makes you look foolish.

[Blankman85]

That's Master Chief and Mario you're up against though. Those all stars are great and all, but none of them have individually sold a single game that sold over 10 million.
Master Chief has. Mario's been doing that since day one.
SONY don't have a hard hitting holiday line up as far as business is concerned.
N4G just likes to live in a bubble but in the real world not making money closes down studios even though you're "a gamer not a shareholder."
In the end, studios like Liverpool suffer and some people lose their jobs.
Remember when SONY said they'd be making 10K job cuts by next March but claimed the gaming department would not be affected? Naively, people bought this because they refused to stop living in their perfect bubble.
Same thing is gonna happen here. Bunch of people are gonna rip this guy to shreds and make a dig at gaming journalism and get massive agrees and well said's. People are gonna lull themselves into a false sense of security until the next studio shuts down. At which point we'll hear how they were not that great anyway even though the same people were probably praising them one one of their games the week prior. That's how N4G works. Now lets sit back and watch it happen

[tokugawa]

lol so true. bubbles up

below. snake is going to be multi from now on though

[irepbtown]

Master Chief and Mario sell well of course...

But so does Snake...
So does Drake...

[BattleAxe]

Tokugawa, so not true....bubble down for you :D

The PS3 has been the best selling home console for the lest 3 years at least. This year Sony has sold more than a million consoles over the 360. They continue to update their hardware, and they continue to offer something that the competition doesn't offer, which is a Blu Ray player and a console with the largest available HDD at 500 GB.

This holiday season they have Uncharted 3 bundled with their new PS3, and they have Playstation All Stars coming out this holiday season which should compete just fine with the WiiU and Halo4. What do Nintendo and MS have coming after the holiday season?....nothing, but the PS3 has The last of Us, God of War: Ascension and Beyond Two Souls, everything else is multi-platform. This is why Sony is outselling the competition, because they continue to invest in AAA hardcore games.

XBOX 360 is known for 3 things, Gears of War, Halo and Call of Duty. Halo will always sell well as Mario games do for Nintendo, but I think that CoD has already seen its best days, and Gears has become a tired series. Despite the fact that CoD seems to be synonymous with the 360, it sells almost as well on the PS3. Theres nothing new coming out for the 360, and thats why I believe that the number of consoles that MS will sell over the next year will look similar to how the Wii has performed over the last two years.

As for Nintendo, the Wii has taken a nose dive in the sales department, and the WiiU isn't even out yet. All the big news about the WiiU involves either old games that have been out for at least a year already on other consoles and PC or 3rd party games that will be released on all platforms.

Now, looking at the Playstation brand, I would say that it is in the best position going into the next generation. I say this because of the following reasons:

- depth of Sony's exclusive games lineup

- continuing development of AAA exclusive games on the PS3

- Acquisition of GaiKai to compete with services like Netfix

- Sony's vast ownership of intellectual property through their companies such as Sony Pictures Entertainment, Sony Music Entertainment, Sony Music Publishing and Sony Computer Entertainment

- Playstation Mobile for Tablets and Smart Phones

- The Sony Entertainment Network ecosystem which will be available through Sony Bravia TVs, PS3/PS4, PS Vita and PC through GaiKai

With all of Sony's resources and renewed leadership, you'd have to be a complete fool to say that Sony is in trouble going into the next generation. Microsoft will do well with Windows 8 and Windows Moblile, but Nintendo is a two trick pony, all they have is the WiiU and the 3Ds. If either the WiiU or 3DS under-performs, Nintendo is screwed. Nintendo is essentially bringing a knife to a gun fight for the next generation. I think Sony is probably one of the best positioned electronics/entertainment companies in the world at this point, and frankly, I believe that they will become a major challenger to Apple's market share 5 - 10 years down the road.

[zebramocha]

@ndivhu the studios being shut down,while sad were necessary because they weren't profitable,the 10k job cuts were done so Sony could reverse the damage the buisness model that they used to put them in their current situation and focus on emerging market and newer technologies so they could make money and halo,Mario should have no barring on the ps3 because they're exclusive and cod bo 2 seems to be the big ticket item this holiday season.

[shadow2797]

It's kind of hard to put Gran Turismo into a fighting game...

Holiday 2012 does look relatively weak for Sony (which is the first time in a very long time, IMO), but Spring 2013 looks great for them. In fact, 2013 in general should be a very good year for the PS3.

[pixelsword]

"Master Chief and Mario you're up against though. Those all stars are great and all, but none of them have individually sold a single game that sold over 10 million.
Master Chief has. Mario's been doing that since day one."

Sony's exclusive games tend not to sell overly well because they always have a plethora of exclusive games at any once time; it's the blessing and the curse of the Playstation.

Microsoft really only has a handful of exclusive games and therefore more sales from those titles; so therefore they either space the games out, or you get a blowout of Halo and Gears of War.

Nintendo has more exclusive titles than Microsoft, but less than sony, but Nintendo has probably the best PR and ad team out of the three. Nintendo's Ad and PR teams know how to engineer shortages, and properly put out advertising to spur sales; they've successfully done it for years when they want to yank on peoples instinct to hoard (expect another "shortage" the first couple of years the Wii U is out too). Nintendo's think tank almost always knows how to sell a turd (so to speak), but they don't always know how to present the turd (the year when they got "executive mom" out to sell the wii along with that horrible Wii symphony game because they were trying to reach out to their newly-crafted old people + woman demographic only to discover that neither one cared about E3).

They all had really good presentations this gen, though:

Nintendo: "girls playing Wii while naked or barely clothed". For that to not be advertising would be a both a pity and a sure sign for the moral downfall of that civilization.

Microsoft: Bald guy tattoos dates on himself to schmooze with the more younger, gullible buyers. Brilliant. Microsoft should have done more stuff like that because that really made a connection. He was like that cool science teacher who did interesting stuff in class so you were both entertained and educated at the same time. The guy that came after him could not hold a candle to hims, sadly.

Sony: Kevin Butler. This was Sony's best ever ad campaign. I mean that. I hated their weird commercials, which seemed to be all of them except the Butler ones. Too bad the little kid didn't work for the PSP though; he had potential and I hope he becomes an actor because he had charisma, but he was a contrast to the Kevin Butler ads and that's why he didn't do well; if they dressed him up as a kid that wanted to be like Butler, he would have been even bigger than butler. The thing was that the kid wasn't a contrast to Butler, he was a clash; and since clashes only work if the older character wasn't liked in the first place, the kid didn't fit in.

[Dee_91]

@ndivhu
Lmao so 10 million is the standard now?
Do you know how many of those characters confirmed for All stars sold over 3million ?
Not to mention over 1million...
I guess you got your own definition for "hard hitting " huh?

[tokugawa]

lol, you fanboys and sony soldiers can sit here all day writing walls of text. calling companies one trick ponies or saying that certain franchises are tired.

making excuses for why most sony exclusives tank "too many other exclusives" yet forgetting that cod and battlefield shift multiple millions. making lists of sonys strengths and such, in desperate attempts to make it seem like everything is rosy. when sony where in an even stronger position going into this gen.

and it still doesnt change anything in the real world outside of n4g. sony is in a whole world of trouble. their tvs and most of their electronics are way overpriced. and are nowhere the mark of quality that they once were.

google crosstalk 3d sony bravia to see the absolute rubbish tvs they knowingly put out in 2010/11. tvs not even capable of displaying 3d correctly, then telling everyone that they correspond with the specifications.. i should know, i was one of them also. and it took me over 2 months to get a refund.

sony was once a colossus, now they are barely hanging on. companies are not too big to fail! the gaming business which they dominated for 10 years is no longer theirs. tv, electronics, you name it, they have pretty much lost their dominance in everything..... it is just the idiotic fanboys on here that dont see it

[srcBFMVBMTH]

@yesmynameissumo

Agreed.

@Ndivhu

"That's Master Chief and Mario you're up against though. Those all stars are great and all, but none of them have individually sold a single game that sold over 10 million. Master Chief has. Mario's been doing that since day one."

Sony doesn't just focus on one franchise bro. It's not really all about selling 10 million units with one game to Sony. More like selling 1-5 million units with 20+ games. That way, it allows them to make profit but also discover new IP's without having to only worry about marketing with one. BTW, pretty sure that Gran Turismo sells in the 5-10 million range.

"In the end, studios like Liverpool suffer and some people lose their jobs"

Liverpool merged with Evolution.

"Remember when SONY said they'd be making 10K job cuts by next March but claimed the gaming department would not be affected? Naively, people bought this because they refused to stop living in their perfect bubble."

They bought Sucker Punch, Media Molecule, and Gaikai recently. The studios they've closed down were BigBig (A very small studio), Zipper (They've been making meh to crap games this whole gen), and Liverpool (Again, they've merged with Evolution). Not to mention they've expanded Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica.

Sony may not be doing too well. Moslty because of their T.V. branch. But I doubt they'd let go of the PlayStation branch that easily. Especially when it's still very profitable. lol

[HarryMasonHerpderp]

Exactly right.
People want to see Sony crash and burn and I don't understand why.
They make great games and seem to be the only company supporting their fanbase with their console at the moment and investing in new IPs which is the life blood of the gaming industry and great news for people who love to play games.

Seriously what is with people hating Sony this gen?

[yesmynameissumo]

This really has been the theme this generation in regards to Sony and the business analysts/journalists that report their spin free, objective opinions. Since 2006, we've read similar sentiments regarding Sony as a company or the PS3 as a console. At some point, you've got to think they can do no right in the eyes of the folks paid off of site hits, not accuracy or objectivity. The mantra has gone from "The PSP is doomed!" to "The PS3 is doomed!" to "The PS Vita is doomed!" and will likely continue no matter what they do.

[dubt72]

@Harry. That is NOT fair. I hated Sony last generation too!

[srcBFMVBMTH]

@HarryMasonHerpderp

"investing in new IPs which is the life blood of the gaming industry and great news for people who love to play games."

AGREED. I freaking love when a new IP is announced.

I'm all for supporting old IP's and all. But when it's ALL YOU DO. That's when it starts to piss me off. lol

[Anon1974]

Yeah, I agree. Where the hell is this guy coming from? First off, "Sony has lost this generation"

Really, how do you figure? Is it in sales? Sales data shows the PS3 has been happily outselling the 360 since launch. Is it games? No again. While games like Halo/Gears tend to do amazing numbers and it's no secret that shooter games tend to perform better on the 360, the PS3 still puts up impressive figures spread across multiple genres, something the other guys seem to struggle with. I wonder if you asked him to back up that statement what he would say.

And then this nugget.
"Sony hid the sales numbers of the Vita in its financial report."

They reorganised divisions and now they're reporting differently. Suddenly this is hiding data? Grouping similar products when reporting financial data is nothing new. Is Sony also hiding sales of their high end stereo equipment because they group it in with other equipment for the purpose of earnings releases? Of course not. Now back when Microsoft started seeing year over year declines with 360 sales and they just suddenly stopped reporting sales for two quarters until they picked up - you could certainly make the case there that they were hiding data, but there was no reorganization or changes to reporting there. They simply stopped, then started again when figures improved.

"Sony is faced with no clear path to profitability in home electronics or games."
Sure they are. Stabilizing foreign exchange markets. One of the main reasons Sony has struggled these past few years has been the appreciation of the Yen versus western currencies, a fact quoted in Sony's statement used in this very article, and this is something they have zero control over unless they charge more for their products or lower production costs. S&P, which believes sluggish consumer spending will continue for the next couple of years is expecting that with the way the FX markets are currently heading, Sony should return to profitability this fiscal year with earnings per share set to increase 2067% for FY14. This guy is right, it's not all smiles and sunshine for Sony, but he seems wilfully ignorant of the reasons, instead choosing to bash on Sony's products and marketing decisions as the primary reason behind Sony's current woes.

The guy's anti-Sony slant in this article I feel really gets in the way of the points he's raising. Can you really argue the state of the PS3 without contrasting it to sales of the 360 or Wii? Do you truly believe that the Vita and 3DS are even being targeted at the same market? Given the PS3's sales the past few years, do you honestly believe there's a problem with it's price point versus it's competition? Is Halo really a hardware mover? Did 360 sales suddenly surge after Halo 3 was released?

I just feel overall the guy can't be bothered to give any credit at all to Sony. His final conclusion is that Sony really has nothing to offer. You don't get much more one sided than this and the article suffers for it. It's no different than all those "PSP is doomed, Wii-U is doomed, Blu-Ray is doomed, PS3 is doomed, Kinect is doomed, Move is doomed" articles out there. For once I'd love to see these guys not just recycle the same old, tired articles. Although, in the interest of full disclosure I honestly didn't see how Kinect had any chance at $150. I couldn't have been more wrong about that.

Edit below: Yeah, funny how we hold them responsible for the reporting they do and expect them to be objective. What's with that?

[Ben_Grimm]

It is funny right? Almost all these journalists saying the same thing and yet no one on this website believes it.

Ooops, let me stop, Sorry Dark I forgot, you might run and tell om me.

[pixelsword]

@ Ben

"All of the journalists" (and even "industry legends") said that the 360 was more powerful than the PS3, so where's that game that graphically and technically blows

Uncharted 3,
God of War 3,
MGS4,
Resistance 3,
Killzone 3,
Lair,
Warhawk/Starhawk,
or Gran Turismo 5

out of the water?

After seven years...

...still waiting.

[pixelsword]

@ my comment above:

See? I get disagrees, but no list.

Please.

Prove me wrong.

Shut me up.

:D

[darx]

Market share

[starchild]

@pixelsword

Prove you wrong? It's an f-en opinion...nothing to disprove.

In my opinion, the fact that you think MGS4, Resistance 3 and Lair are graphical powerhouses proves that you don't have a freaking clue.

You console fanboys are funny. Somehow you can see huge differences between different console games, but then you turn around and say that PC gaming doesn't really offer much better graphics.

Games on the 360 and PS3 are essentially so close graphically that it isn't even worth talking about.

[neogeo]

word of advice. damage control is less effective with a wall of text. People don't want to read all that crap.

[Gazondaily]

@pixel

""All of the journalists" (and even "industry legends") said that the 360 was more powerful than the PS3"

Really? Where? As far as I knew, developers have always said that the 360 was easier to develop for, not necessarily more powerful. Talk about making sweeping statements (what a waste of 5 bubbles).

But lets see, by your ill-fated logic, the Xbox 1 is more powerful than the PS3! Why? 'Tenchnically', can the PS3 send voice messages? No. Then buy an Xbox 1.

Where is your list now?

[king dong3]

yeah that pesky yen darkride.. i see it is causing the whole japanese economy to falter. i see every japanese firm struggling, and japan no longer the third biggest economy.

oh wait, that is not the case.

and honestly, so what if the ps3 sells 1 or 2 mil more a year than the 360. last gen the ps2 was selling 10 or 15 mil more units a year than the xbox!!

the sony in terms of marketshare are the biggest loser. not many people outside on n4g really care about most of their forgettable exclusives... and all the sales figures paint the picture

dont give me the "sales dont equal quality" rubbish. which is true. but sales do equal popularity, and are an indicator of what people want. and a plethora of mediocre exclusives is obviously not it

[Ben_Grimm]

Funny how it's the jounalists fault in all these cases.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

So they're all right then?

Most of these "journalists" are nothing more than fanbloggers speculating. No different than people here at N4G that tend to act like they all have a degree in business.

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

"Why Microsoft, and the xbox brand, could be in more trouble than you think" fixed..

Now put this on a gaming website in japan.

[Ben_Grimm]

Why?

What could that possibly prove and would make anything better?

[Rumplebumpkin]

Why does Sony being in trouble make you happy Ben?
A major competitor like Sony leaving the game industry would be a massive blow and it would provide less competition between companies. Any gaming company having a bad time is bad for the gaming industry.
Try to grow up a bit.

[fr0sty]

Microsoft lost almost $6 billion on the first Xbox (and even though the 360 has turned a profit on it's own costs, they still have not made that $6b back). They're still here, and look to continue strong into the next generation. Sony hasn't lost that much on PS3, so the doom and gloom needs to quit. They're nowhere near "in trouble". Not doing well, yes, but not about to go belly up. The only obstacle Sony faces going into next gen is putting together a machine that is still powerful but won't break the bank. The reason there has been so many layoffs is Sony has always had very poor structure as a company, and now Kaz is attempting to unify things a bit, which means trimming the fat wherever they can. They may be bleeding red ink, but I don't see investors lining up to buy them out. When I hear of entire divisions (the more popular ones, like gaming, music, or movies) being put up for sale, than I'll start worrying about them.

[gnothe1]

frosty...first off MS didnt LOOSE 6 billion on the first xbox...that was the total invested in the system AND XBL infastructure..an then you say MS hasnt made that money back...theres over 60 million consoles sold..lets just say theres only 20 million paid subscribers at 6 years of XBL at 50 a year...thats 6 billion right there...so therefore they've made that money back off XBL ALONE....does sony have that income NO!!!an it was reported that sony had lost all the profit made on the PS2 on the PS3 an blu ray...

[Bon Scott]

nice damage control frosty lol

and to your pal pixel sword above,you guys need to relax.
Sonyboys like pixel always pull the graphics card out.
Who cares about graphics......did you when the first xbox was WAY superior graphically to the PS2?

And the graphics are only a tad bit better on ps3 exclusives MAYBE(multiplats on 360 smoke ps3's 8 out of ten times)......and that's a tough maybe.
Are those graphics giving the playstation brand a victory this gen...?.....?
compared to the previous gens,
we can all agree on a big HELL NO!

I don't want Sony out of gaming because N4G would most likely seize to exist,
and I like to watch the SDF squirm on articles like this :)

[Blankman85]

Woah woah woah hold the bus there frosty! Xbox didn't lose 6 billion, forbes estimated it at 4 (3.7 actually) billion in 2005 before the 360 launched.
I think you may be confusing it with the recent 6 billion SONY lost last fiscal year.
PS3 has in fact lost more than the original xbox with a whopping $5 (4.7 actually) billion lost. Granted it is currently being recouped but it is a very slow process and they might not make it before they release the PS4.
Xbox Live alone on the other hand makes 1 (1.2 actually) billion dollars in revenue each year for Xbox 360 division, I'd say they are sitting pretty and their previous losses are but forgotten.
Sources: http://venturebeat.com/2011...
http://m.joystiq.com/2009/1...
http://m.mtv.com/blogs/mult...

[fr0sty]

According to this business insider article, MS lost 4B, and has only made back 1B. Gnothe, you act like MS has not expenses in their business model, which is impossible. They have paid billions of dollars in advertising (one billion on kinect alone), server upkeep for XBL, and all the other operating costs they have. Profit is what counts, not total income.

The PS3 lost $4.7 billion, Xbox lost 4.2 billion (had to double check on that), as of it's first 4 years in existence. The PS3 at that point had indeed lost more, but the difference is, the system is still selling, unlike the Xbox which had it's plug pulled after 4 years on the market, and MS is still $3 billion in the hole from the first Xbox's losses. PS3 is now outselling 360, and has been for all of 2012. As such, if this trend continues, it could very well end up with a smaller overall loss than the Xbox division by the time PS3 stops being sold (look how long PS2 sold). I don't see either division getting out of the red this generation, but I do not see either of them in any kind of trouble. If Sony suffered the same losses next gen that they did this gen, then articles like this would have some sort of validity. However, no major console manufacturer (as in, has released more than one console) has EVER gone under after just one bad generation. Nintendo fell behind to last place 2 gens in a row, look at them now (however, even they posted an annual loss this generation). Sony may have had a rough generation, but they're not in any kind of trouble. You'll likely hear about a PS4 at next E3 or TGS, whether you like it or not.

Sources:
http://www.abyep.com/ps3-ha...

http://www.engadget.com/201...

http://www.businessinsider....

http://www.businessinsider....

[3-4-5]

plenty of " Qualified " business analysts lose millions of dollars for people every year.

You can't just dismiss what he says.

Sony needs to get their S*** together.

They are a great company who has amazing first party games and gets a ton of great Jrpg's on their consoles and hand helds....

They need to find their center and re-harness their chi.

[pixelsword]

"You can't just dismiss what he says."

Yes I can.

:)

[Dee_91]

I just cant get over this paragraph

"1.This is spin, pure and simple. Sony has lost this generation, and there is no reason to lower the price and lose more money than necessary. 2.Sony’s focus is on next year, and its next generation console; they are aware that there’s little that can be done to fight off the competition this holiday season.Microsoft has offerings at a lower price backed with expected strong sales of the new Halo title, alongside a new Call of Duty game,3. a series that has historically performed much better on Microsoft hardware. 4.Sony’s own list of exclusives for the holiday season is weak at best, including a fighting game that all but demands you already be a Sony fan. 5.The next big-name Sony title is the Last of Us, which is arriving at some point in 2013."

1.Sony has lost generation. How? Its 3rd in sales? Coming out 3rd has nothing to do with this right?Please explain how it lost this generation.We all dont think biased enough to put 2 and 2 together.
2.So you mean to tell me that a new ps3 model 2 EXCLUSIVES 1 thats free cant compete with ANOTHER 360 price drop, another halo and a multiplatform game.Dont get me wrong I have nothing against the 360 but this is just pure BS.Your opinion is either poorly thought out or completely biased.
3.Performs better?Does it look better? does it have extra features?Does it some how magically play better ?No.And I hope he dont mean sales because that would be scrubbing the bottom of the barrel too hard.Im giving him the benefit of the doubt and assume he means perform in the way that performance actually matters.
4.revert back to 3.
5.So GOW ascension beyond 2 souls and Last guradian doesnt exist in his screwed up head I see.

Folks thats just 1 of 9 idiotic paragraphs from mr Ben Kuchera
Just write it off as another ps3 doom article and dont give them hits

[nihonlight]

This joker and flamer who wrote this article forgot about the awesome games coming out for ps3 in 2013 and the ps4 in 2014 (ps3 support till 2015)

[ALLWRONG]

"Only problem is he's not objective in the slightest (never mind not qualified either)"

and you are?

[yesmynameissumo]

Yes, yes I am.

[morkendo23]

Let’s dive into what Sony has to overcome in order to gain dominance in 2013."

word of advice. damage control is less effective with a wall of text.

[azazel665]

Lol people like you are a joke. You disagree so you are baffled at how he's "somehow" a business analyst and say he isn't qualified for his job. He's getting paid, you are not. If you think you are more knowledgable, why don't you try to get a job in the industry then, bro?

[DivineAssault]

Well if they are in any trouble & keep pumping out games like they are, ill be there to buy em.. I doubt they would buy multi million dollar businesses & provide so much software if there were.. I got enough juice out of my PS3 & cant wait for the nx gen beast..

[HarryMasonHerpderp]

Exactly, Sony have recently bought Gaikai for $380million.
Does that sound like something a company would do if they were in a financial crisis about to shut down all of their studios? I don't think so.

[baodeus]

That is a must buy purchase from Sony, even if they don't have much money left, to stay relevant next Gen. Sony doesn't have the software capability like MS, apple, google so how do u catch up interm of online cloud service (which everyone else is moving forward too)? U think they buy it just because they have money to spend? Gaikai purchase is pretty cheap comparing to other companies purchase that goes up in to billion range, not million.

I would say Sony got a pretty good deal with that purchase though and it could really help them in the long run.

[baodeus]

*double post.

So did I say something negative about Sony or that they gonna die?

So Sony is already better in software front than ms, google, or apple (heck is Sony better hardware wise than apple, Samsung etcc..) going into cloud services prior to Gaikai?

Any explanation for disagreeing or was that the common syndrome on n4g?

I'm guessing it is the n4g syndrome. :D

[ALLWRONG]

Problem is you PS3 owners don't buy enough games. PS3 has been trailing last place in console and game sales. PS3 owners talk about PS3 exclusives then buy CoD instead. The majority of PS3's top 20 games are multiplatform, most of which all sell better on the 360. Most also look and play better as well.

I know what some of you say "this isn't 2008" but the fact is LoT and and H2H still show 360 games winning.

I know "the media is out to get Sony" even though this is the first negative article to come out all month. Front page is covered in Sony praise. All come out in defense and damage control mode when one slips through. I'm pretty sure some of you are already working a spin (check pending) and your 250th negative 360 and Wii U article.

So now that this one made it trough does that mean you guys are going to go off and spam Nintendo and Xbox news? What am I saying you guys do that anyway.

[AsimLeonheart]

The WHOLE Sony Corporation is not running on the revenue from games. Sony runs several divisions including financial services, banking and insurance, manufacturing, consumer electronics, media entertainment, semiconductors, computer hardware and many others. The games division can shut down and the company will still exist just like it existed before entering the games industry. It happens sometimes. Companies have ups and downs in their life times. Just look at Apple before the launch of ipod and iphone and look at them now. Look at Kodak in the 80s and look at them now. Most recently look at Nokia less than a decade earlier and look at them now. The reason that Sony is laying off employees is because they are restructuring, trying to reduce costs and bring it back into black. It does not necessarily means that they are done for. Finally what will you get if they go bankrupt??? Why are the doom and gloom prophets insist so much that Sony is done for? There is nothing in it for you guys except for "Look, I told you so!"

[ALLWRONG]

I never said Sony was done for. I don't know where you got that.

[JBSleek]

Sony is in trouble that much is known as the company lacks the ability to make money, but that seems to be changing and from reports it seems the company as a whole can see profit in 2014 I do believe.

I'm a strong believer in the market will correct itself and if Sony isn't capable of being a viable company they will fall themselves.

[chrisarsenalsavart]

Sony as whole needs of restructuring but nowhere near bankruptcy.
They are 3 billion down(not 6 billion like some idiot like have claimed) and their networth is estimated at 190 billion.
they could operate at loss for another ten years and still not have to file for bankruptcy .

[baodeus]

Were u looking at Sony back in 2000, net worth around 81 bil where as they only worth around 20 billion now.

Go here: http/finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s= SNE+Balance+sheet&annual

math: total assets - total liabilities = Sony net worth.

2011, Sony net worth is ~30 billion, and it has been on decline still.

Where did u get 190 billion from? U mean to tell me Sony jump from 30 billion back to 190 billion in just one year while Sony still reporting lost every quarter?

7 people agree too, hahahaha it is really funny and tell u about how much people on N4g know about business.

Just for comparison

Apple (2011) net worth= 76 bil 690/share (current), but they currently worth a lot more
Ms (2012): 66 bil, 30.78/share
Google (2011): 58 bil, 749.38/share

Only fanboy would agree with number coming from someone as$ as long as it support their bais view.
Sony (2012): 25 bil, 12.36/share

[smashcrashbash]

Another article trying to focus on how much trouble Sony is in. This is about thousandth article trying to say exactly what we have been hearing for months now. Sony is in financial trouble and they are attempting to fix it.But we have to hear it a thousand different ways while people on gaming sites try to pretend that they are more concerned about what is happening to Sony more then everyone else is. Sony is the one fighting to keep their company and all that they worked for and as usual people try to make it all about them. If they go down what do we lose? A few of their products? Their movies? Their music? And yet people constantly cry about how serious this is as if it is them who is going to lose if Sony dies. I don't want Sony to go down either but it is them who have the most to lose out of this, not us.So just waiting for the thousandth and one article trying to say 'Sony's in trouble'.

[AsimLeonheart]

Looks like it is 2007 once again. Sony\Playstation is DOOMED!!!! Nice try but I am not going to click on the link and give you a it.

[Silly gameAr]

Agreed.

[ZeroChaos]

The Sony brad isn't in trouble, you know what happening, cleaning. People have become to complacent, time for a change.

[ChunkyLover53]

Sony will never be in trouble on N4G. This is basically the "happy place" Sony gamer's can live in denial, every article that has a legitimate point will get called 1.Troll article looking for hits or 2.Typical anti-Sony media bias.

I think the fact that they don't really have a budget for development and then don't even bother to support most games with an advertising campaign has hurt them a lot this generation. They've made some perplexing moves from the get go and even though they have put out some fantastic games, they were never able to recapture the glory of the PS1 or PS2 era.

People are only fooling themselves if they stick by the old saying "Sony will be okay", because there are a ton of businesses out there that closed down when people thought they'd be okay.

I personally hope they get their act together, I admit I used to be a huge Sony fan with the PS1 and PS2 and haven't found the same love for the PS3, but I have high hopes for the PS4 and if Sony can get their ego in check, the competition next generation should be fun and it'll be something that benefits all gamer's.

[zebramocha]

What's a Nintendo white knight doing in this article,isn't there a anti Nintendo article you should be defending.

[CGI-Quality]

Sony isn't in the greatest position right now, agreed, but many journalists and supposed "gamers" find more time to attract to news such as this, like bees to honey, rather than acknowledging what Sony has been offering lately - games, in abundance.

In truth, Sony may / may not be OK in the end, but you nor this journalist know that for sure.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

***"Sony will never be in trouble on N4G. This is basically the "happy place" Sony gamer's can live in denial, every article that has a legitimate point will get called 1.Troll article looking for hits or 2.Typical anti-Sony media bias."***

BOO HOO! Same could be said for you, MS will never be in trouble according to you! Every article that makes a legitimate point will get called 1.Troll article looking for hits or 2.Typical anti-MS N4G bias!

We can go back and forth all day!

Nobody is saying that Sony is prospering like they never had before, but it is kind of annoying when folks like yourself are constantly preaching your uneducated speculations as if you know what's best for Sony more than Sony does. Saying things like "if Sony can get their ego in check" discredits you even more.

[ChunkyLover53]

I don't think I've ever really come across as a Microsoft fan either, just try to point out hypocrisies when I see them. More people call me a Nintendo fan than Microsoft fan, though I've enjoyed aspects of all three consoles this generation.

I'm sure you've had your fair share of "opinions" when it came to Nintendo and Microsoft right? Yet here you are trying to criticize me for mine. I never claimed to know more about Sony than Sony, but as a consumer I do know how I feel about what they've done this generation and I think I'm not totally alone with those feelings.

If you don't see that this site really comes to the defense on Sony NO MATTER what, then your just kidding yourself and we all know it.

How fast would this article blow up if it was an article about Microsoft being in trouble? We all know it'd be filled up. Look at that "5 Things Microsoft Could Learn From Sony" article, that was the biggest charade I've seen in a long time, it was basically hundreds of comments about why Microsoft sucks.....

I also don't think Microsoft or Nintendo fans blame media bias or people "buying off" reviewers. Sony fans seem to blame those things all the time.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

***"I'm sure you've had your fair share of "opinions" when it came to Nintendo and Microsoft right? Yet here you are trying to criticize me for mine. I never claimed to know more about Sony than Sony, but as a consumer I do know how I feel about what they've done this generation and I think I'm not totally alone with those feelings."***

I don't have a problem with you criticizing Sony. I have a problem with you saying people are in denial if they don't agree with what you consider to be a legitimate point however.

***"If you don't see that this site really comes to the defense on Sony NO MATTER what, then your just kidding yourself and we all know it."***

I can just as easily say that you come to the defense on Microsoft NO MATTER what and that if you don't see that you are kidding yourself and we all know it.

I don't understand why you guys see it as coming to defense. I see it as people coming up with their own opinion and backing it up. Yeah, there are people that simply write a single sentence saying things like "troll article move on" or "oh look, another negative Sony article" but there are definitely a good amount of people that come with responses that attempts to come up with arguments against what the article is claiming and I don't see what is wrong with that.

I don't understand how one sees "defending" as bad thing and yet see nothing wrong with "attacking." One is allowed to make a negative statement against something, but to make an argument against that negative statement is wrong/fanboyish? I think people that are like that are people that don't like to have their opinion challenged because they think they are 100% correct 100% of the time. If you don't agree with what someone says, respond back knocking down their point(s) as opposed to saying you're always defending as they can easily say you are always attacking which is no different just you guys are on the opposite side of the spectrum and it ends up being a silly pointing fingers contest.

***"How fast would this article blow up if it was an article about Microsoft being in trouble? We all know it'd be filled up. Look at that "5 Things Microsoft Could Learn From Sony" article, that was the biggest charade I've seen in a long time, it was basically hundreds of comments about why Microsoft sucks....."***

But how would YOU respond if this was a MS is in trouble article though? I doubt you'd be saying this article made a legitimate point.

I read the first page of comments on that article you mentioned and the amount of "troll" comments (and that goes for both troll comments toward MS and troll comments toward Sony) pale in comparison to responses with people simply stating their opinion on the matter.

People always crying about how everyone is hating on their console. Nobody wants to see the negative opinions on their console no matter how constructive the criticism. So it's no surprise that everyone feels that they can't give criticism to other consoles without being called a troll because people don't like seeing or hearing criticism to begin with at all.

[chazjamie]

shame hey, sony is in such an awful position.

[sandman224]

If Sony is in so much trouble why are they making a ps4? I thought if a company is in financial trouble they wouldn't have the funds to make a new console. This article is retarded!

[BitbyDeath]

They also wouldn't have the money to buy Gaikai and fund tons of first and second party games.

But hey this is N4G, the land where Sony is teh Doomed!

[Simco876]

Console wars are funny. You don't want to see different NBA franchises close down and fail do you? You don't want to see different PC Hardware companies fail do you? Competition is good.

[linkratos]

I would love a few less teams in the NBA. The talent is too diluted except for a few select teams that are loaded.

[StreetsofRage]

Good article and right on point. Creating another sku at that price this late in the game is possibly the dumbest move yet by Sony. Sony had a good chance on doing some catch up if they released this console at a lower price, but they just can't. They lost a lot of money with the ps3 and they just can't afford it. A price cut they desperately need. The ps3 had a terrible 2012 with nothing buzz worthy with the minor exception of sony smash brothers. But that's a niche game. The buzz is all on Nintendo and Microsoft's this Holiday season. Only buzz I hear from Sony's camp is The Last of Us which is possibly at 2013 holiday release.

The Vita just plain flopped. No way to spin that into a positive. Add this fact with what I just previously mentioned and it's a colossal bad year for Sony.

I would like to add this...Remember all those "gloom and doom" articles when the ps3 first launched? Yeah it was annoying but guess what? Every single one of them was absolutely CORRECT!!! They all pretty much claimed that sony or the ps3 was going to be in trouble, right? Well look at them now. Every single one of those gloom and doom articles were absolutely correct.

[MetalProxy]

Why am I not surprised that you are here? Gotta love your so called facts. If you hate sony so much why bother being here other than ego boosting? Go to one of the many xbox safe havens out there and hold hands and chant "sony is doomed".

On topic: Sony will be fine, FACT!

[DigitalRaptor]

"Creating another sku at that price this late in the game is possibly the dumbest move yet by Sony."

So a cheaper to manufacture console, with a new design to be marketed just before the next wave of games are released is a dumb move? Wow. Just wow.

"Only buzz I hear from Sony's camp is The Last of Us which is possibly at 2013 holiday release."

A lot more than TLoU coming next year to PS3 buddy, but of course nothing that would interest a hater.
God of War Ascension, Beyond: Two Souls, Sly Cooper 4, Ratchet & Clank: Q-Force, Yakuza 5, LittleBigPlanet Karting, Ni no Kuni (Japanese RPG gem). FF Versus XIII and The Last Guardian? Who knows, maybe they'll see the light of next year. As well as high-profile multiplats like BioShock Infinite that's getting exclusive features. that diverse lineup will be doing more for the PS3 over the next year than probably the WiiU's launch effort and whatever is coming out on the 360 in 2013.

"The Vita just plain flopped. No way to spin that into a positive."

Vita is selling as a handheld in this climate is expected to at its price. The 3DS was in the same situation before they were forced to drop the price. When Vita gets its drop and more games that have already been announced and still TBA, you will easily see the sales figures increase. That's not spin, that's bloody common sense.

We heard all this doom and gloom back in 2007. It doesn't surprise me that people like you are still abusing the same mentality. Of course you can look at Sony as a company needing a major turn around. It's true, but you're still neglecting that the PlayStation divison is their most profitable. PS3 has been in a profitable state for well over 2 years now.

Troll harder, bring something better next time.

[Lvl_up_gamer]

"So a cheaper to manufacture console, with a new design to be marketed just before the next wave of games are released is a dumb move? Wow. Just wow."

A cheaper to manufacture super slim where the tech inside has been downgraded ie. new top loader in replace of a front slide drive sold HIGHER than their current slim that DOES have more tech inside IS DUMB!!!

Only a mis-informed purchaser would buy a super Slim at a higher cost then the current Slim.

Sony is banking on the mis-informed to try and drive revenue for Sony.

It makes ABSOLUTELY no sense to think your customers are so oblivious that they wouldn't be able to see a difference between the Slim and the Super Slim. The Slim is a much better system and it's priced LOWER then the Super Slim.

Sure it will cost less for Sony to manufacture a Super Slim vs. a Slim....but if nobody buys it because they see the value in spending LESS for the better Slim model...then Sony is actually digging a larger hole for themselves.

[UnwanteDreamz]

FACT

Writing "FACT" after you spew your BS opinion doesn't make it a fact. Troll harder.

[DivineAssault]

If PS1 & PS2 destroyed the competition, u really think that because PS3 (being a yr behind & alomst the same in sales as MS) isnt on top that its in trouble? Wii couldnt even match the success of ps2 & its still selling.. PSP is still selling.. PS3 is still selling.. PSV is still selling (tho not enough as it should).. They just fell from the top which happens to all companies but by no means are on the verge of extinction.. If they were, why bother releasing ps4? why have so many titles in the works? why buy gaikai? some ppl need common sense

[YoungPlex]

Well looking at it like that is the narrow-minded way of looking at it. The fact is that, despite PS2 selling as much as it did, it was selling at a loss for a substantial amount of time before making a profit, while the Wii sold at a profit from day one. Same thing with PSP, PS3, and Vita. The Wii U will also be profitable from from day one as well. The only system to sell at a loss was the 3DS and that wasn't until they dropped it six months later, even at that it didn't take that long to turn it around and make a profit; as of July Nintendo was making a profit off of every 3DS and making a huge profit off the XL.

Gaikai is a way for Sony to secure a future in cloud gaming not PS4! If PS4's main focus becomes cloud-based, I'll stop supporting them immediately. Sony's credit score dropped dramatically which is not good for any company. After a substantial amount of layoffs, one has to truly wonder if Sony is indeed in trouble.

I'm going to keep on supporting Sony and will buy a Vita and PS4 now that I'm making damn good money, but I will not act like I don't see that Sony's in trouble. They really need to stop selling things at a loss or else things will continue to look gloomy...

[dafegamer]

" Sony is in a uniquely poor position heading into this holiday season and may have already all but given up on the PlayStation 3"
Yeah thats right. Thats why sony is still releasing the last of us, gow ascension,pasbr,puppeteer,lbp karting,sly cooper 4,till next year right? Silly doom&gloom article

[dafegamer]

"Microsoft has offerings at a lower price backed with expected strong sales of the new Halo title, alongside a new Call of Duty game, a series that has historically performed much better on Microsoft hardware."
Stopped reading there. This guy is obviously a xboxfanboy
The ps3 is outselling the xbox worldwide except usa, also the next big title is ther last of us? What about the other title realesing before it?

[Pillsbury1]

Kaz is at the top now. Enough said.

[bub16]

all i ever see is stories about Sony going to fail and being in trouble. Its still alive. and even if they did die. there are a lot of PS3 games out there i haven't played yet. who keeps approving this BS

[SOULJER]

WOW. This articles had crazy spin.He must write for the Romney camp.Sling that BS. Tell some lies. Now scare them.Doom. Finsh. THE END.

[belac09]

people are so stupid. sony will be fine. were they doing better a few years ago? yes. but they are not doomed. idiots. i for one will not give this guy an article hit.

[ziggurcat]

it must be sony doom article day at N4G.... oh, wait... *every* day must be sony doom article day...

[yewles1]

"Microsoft has offerings at a lower price backed with expected strong sales of the new Halo title,"

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-...

[Lvl_up_gamer]

320gb limited Halo4 console with 2 controllers and a game for less then $400....

Are you trying to prove the writer is right when he said MS has offerings at a lower price? Because that is exactly what you just did with that amazon link.

game = $60
Controller = $60
360 slim with 250gb = $299

so you get an additional 70 gb's of memory and $120 worth of extras.
Custom designed limited edition console with blue led lights and sounds with 2 custom designed controllers.

for comparison
250gb kinect bundle is also $399
320gb star wars bundle is also $399

best ps3 bundle is $299 320gb which is just a standard Slim model and a nhl game.

[yewles1]

.....ROFL!!!!!

This comes out today...

http://www.amazon.com/PS3-2...

and this comes out next month...

http://www.gamestop.com/ps3...

LMFAO!!!

[Lvl_up_gamer]

Thank you yewles1

You just confirmed my comment.

A downgraded PS3 with 2 gen old tech (top loader) and a game that is $20 at Future shop http://www.futureshop.ca/en...

All for $270.

The quote was

"Microsoft has offerings at a lower price backed with expected strong sales of the new Halo title,"

The Halo 4 bundle IS offering a lower price for what you are getting which is a "NON Downgraded Custom designed, Limited Edition 320gb Halo 4 console with 2 custom controllers and a $60 game" for $399 vs. a 250gb old tech super slim PS3 with 1 controller and a $20 game for $270.

A difference of $130.

360 extra controller = $60.
Halo 4 game = $40 difference to Uncharted 3 game

That's $100 right there. Now consider the 360 is offering 70gb more. There is that extra $30.

Now at the end of the day, the 360 console is just a better console looks wise, hard drive space, extra controller and better tech (no top loader)

I hope you are not serious thinking that the Uncharted 3 bundle is "offering" you more for your money then the 360 Halo 4 Bundle...That would be just completely delusional.

Also as a note, your 2nd link doesn't lead to anything.

If you ONLY had $270 then I would agree with you, since you don't have much choice whats available to you...but if you have $400, then you are getting more bang for your buck with the Halo 4 bundle.

Simple as that.

[XabiDaChosenOne]

@Lvl_up_gamer "A downgraded PS3 with 2 gen old tech (top loader) and a game that is $20 at Future shop"
1.What does the aesthetics of the PS3 have to do with anything? It still runs the best looking games on consoles, cheap disc loader or not. It doesn't really matter anyways.
2. I like how you over looked the "40 dollars" of extra content" but whatever helps your argument I guess. And lets also forget the 3 months of plus and the bluray player that comes with every PS3 lol.
3. Looks are not objective, I actually like the retro look of the new slim.

[cedaridge]

SONY is doin fine! It have never been a PERFECT time than NOW to own a ps3. They have great lookin multiplat games (madden 13, nba 2k13, Black Ops 2, BF3 is still a BEAST, gta V, metal gear ground zero, etc,), they have EXCLUSIVES (Beyond 2 Souls, The Last of Us, God of War A, etc,) they have PAST Games (Metal Gear Solid 4, killzone 2 & 3, Uncharted 1,2,3, God of War 3, Heavy Rain, etc.) Most of those games supporting DTS audio. Speakin of DTS surround sound MARVEL AVENGERS is coming out on Bluray "BOOM BOOM". And Last but not least the Playstation Network is FREE!! ps3 offers alot DTS "BANG" for your Buck. psn: cedaridge / xbl: cedar4Thunder

[BlackTar187]

How sad is it to celebrate a gaming company as gamers having a hard time?

Its down right sad and pathetic no matter what side of the fence your on if you only hate them cuz of they told people to get a second job which is such a last grasp to justify unwarranted hate line to hang onto when you apply it to your overall hate for a piece of electronic equipment

Whoever thinks sony leaving gaming is good needs to go back to school you are a moron same with Ninty and MS. Such a stupid and backwards gen this has become i hope this goes down as one of the worst gens in regards to users ever. cuz if this is just the beginning and this hate just grows for no reason in future gens for all systems then you will have no one to blame but yourself for selfish childish behavior

[BitbyDeath]

Well said BlackTar, everyone should be pushing for the entire gaming industry to expand not shrink no matter who you root for.

[omarzy]

Sony is in trouble. I don't know why people have this mentality that hey cannot be Sony fans if they admit that they are in the crapper. Sony had a market value of 100 billion dollars in 200. Anyone want to guess what it was in 2011? 18 billion dollars. They have almost as much debt as they do assets. Nintendo has a higher market value that Sony.

People here will talk about quality exclusives or some other stuff. Let me tell you this. Uncharted 4 or Metal Gear Solid 5 or anything else is not going to help Sony. Stop thinking that the gaming division means anything in the big picture. If the other divisions(the important ones) go down, then playstation is no more. It will be gone!

I don't want Sony to go away, and nobody else should either, but people need to wake up and realize that if Sony doesn't start changing things, then they WILL go away,a nd Playstation WILL die.

Stop thinking that a new game will reverse over 80 billion dollars in losses. Just stop it.

[fabod86]

uhu? ehm suuure...
do a research before write BS -.-
the gaming division is the most profitable for Sony right now ;)

[fabod86]

ok maybe now is not profitable like in the last years but it's the one that is doing better.

[omarzy]

The gaming division is incredibly small compared to the other divisions. 2000 to 2011 had all that market drop, but the ps2 was kicking major ass, so the gaming division is not the important for overall value of the company. Gaming division is safe, but if the other divisions fall, then playstation falls with it. They are in the same boat. The ps2 was the best selling console(is the best selling console) and sony was still going nothing, but down. The only was to secure playstation is to secure the other, bigger divisions. I was not attacking the gaming division or anything. I was simply stating that Sony's other division are currently doing a "if ia m going to die, you are dying with me" to playstation. This is why i am tired of people talking about the gaming division as if that is the actual problem. The gaming division is the victim and the criminal is Sony themselves.

[Belking]

This generation has definitely put a hurt on Sony. They have some serious challenges ahead. Lets hope Kaz can turn it around because if he can't, I see some big changes coming.

[sashimi]

More proof of the joke that is gaming "journalism". Might as well just call them a bunch of crazies and fanboys who can't get a real job so they just write a bunch of garbage.

[hkgamer]

Journalism in general is going downhill.

[XB1_PS4]

Well it sounds like the company in whole is in trouble. Most likely that's not the case though.

[Zeixama]

Endless debate ...

[Imalwaysright]

And yet the PS4 will be my console of choice next gen because Sony does everything i want a gaming company to do. Simple as that.

[supergravity]

Microsoft has placed some malware in the minds of the media and completely brainwashed the blind...I too can not wait for my PS4.

[wane]

Everything is a conspiracy with you guys.

[supergravity]

@wane
It was a joke, but it's true I'm tired of the negative media coverage.

[unworthyBOZO]

"Marty! I just invented a time machine, gee that's great Doc I just went back to the year 2007 and look at what somebody wrote, that's pretty funny Doc."

[unworthyBOZO]

Okay being serious know, its rather obvious that Ben Kuchera a XBOX nuthugger or a anti-playstation, its either one because judging from the articles he has written in the past and the way he spins them to make microsoft look great and and sony dead in the water I mean seriously look at this. "This is spin, pure and simple. Sony has lost this generation, and there is no reason to lower the price and lose more money than necessary. Sony’s focus is on next year, and its next generation console; they are aware that there’s little that can be done to fight off the competition this holiday season. Microsoft has offerings at a lower price backed with expected strong sales of the new Halo title, alongside a new Call of Duty game, a series that has historically performed much better on Microsoft hardware. Sony’s own list of exclusives for the holiday season is weak at best, including a fighting game that all but demands you already be a Sony fan. The next big-name Sony title is the Last of Us, which is arriving at some point in 2013." He brunches off The Last of us like its a game you wipe your ass with or fails to mention games like Beyond Two Souls, God of War Ascension, and Sly 4, and not to mention all of the great third party games. Mr.Ben Kuchera the only spinning I see is coming from you.

I also want to add that Penny-Arcade has always been anti-Sony so these type of articles coming from there site is no real shocker.

[D_RoyJenkins]

Doom and gloom article of the week, nothing new

[sdplisken]

i cant wait till the ps3 overtakes the 360 lol,
i got my champagne ready

these gloom and doom articles are gonna suck some crow

i expect a price drop around holiday time btw

[unworthyBOZO]

LMAO look at the other article this guy wrote, this guy clearly has an agenda, and the comment someone made talk about pure ownage.

"It seems this website has a disdain for alternate points of view. I thought these comments were for discussion. I pointed out where I think you are wrong on this article and your audience starting making the personal attacks. My first post was merely 4 points that you failed to consider. The comments from others were so blatantly Anti-PS3 that I felt a need to retort and call them out for that.

Funny with all the other comments it seems that you only have disdain for me. I appreciate your efforts on wanting to run a tight ship but don't you think you could be saying the same things to others in this discussion thread?

So there is a limit on how much discussion one can do on this website? Is this only for PS3 owners or is that policy Multiplatform? :) I am kidding. :)

IMHO this article seems to be written from the perspective of someone who wishes Sony wasn't around. I am not suggesting you need to put a skirt on and get some pom poms and be a cheerleader for the PS3. You neglected quite a few things about the Game Industry and Business in general. You really put things in the worst possible light.

First off you were suggesting Sony was only making this unit to generate profits. Furthermore you acted as if this was a brand new thing. Did you demonstrate this much ire when you found out that the Nintendo Wii would not be sold at a loss and Nintendo would be making profits on each unit? No I don't think you did. Where were you when Sony made the PS Two with the EXACT SAME STRATEGY? Or how about the PS One?

Then you bring up the nit-picking issues about losing some USB ports, go buy a USB hub and quit your belly-aching. I was pleasantly surprised you didn't mention OtherOS.

To be fair this is my first interaction with you Ben, I don't know you, I am sure you are a great guy I am not making a beef about that. This article it seems to me just seems to be riddled with BIAS and from the way your audience has reacted to my 4 points it seems you are just playing to your audience.

You do get kudos for not including vapid Occupy rhetoric when speaking about corporations. That's more than I can say for some gaming sites."

[Vickistheman]

This article was definitely written by a Sony hater.

"Sony has the most challenges heading into the next generation".. maybe true financially but I have a feeling they'll have the most new IPs and exclusives out of the big three.

MS pretty much only has Halo now that Epic will go multipat.

All other multiplats will also be on PS4 and PC.

[supergravity]

This guy's a straight-up douche.

[stragomccloud]

This guy is waaaaaaaaaay too jaded!
Sony didn't lose this generation. No one did. All of the big 3 were successful.

What's this guy got against Sony, anyway?

[AD705]

I've been hearing this for years and yet sony is still here and still puts more money, time, and effort into games than anyone. Even if sony is in the shit they still seem to be giving us more than the competition

MS makes more than anyone and what do we get? dumbed down versions of features that we already have better somewhere else, TV, halo, gears, and a bunch of lame ass kinect games that no one is even interested in except some lame dancing game (kinect sucks and even most kinect owners agree, the ones who don't just say it's ok). Besides after RROD, E74, GSOD, E72, the cd eating disk tray, MS is lucky that the 360 is still around.

[PurpHerbison]

Too many disease articles plague N4G.

[leahcim]

because you are an Xbox Fan

[Frankfurt]

Best-selling console WORLDWIDE IN 2011:

XBOX 360. FACT.

http://n4g.com/news/933968/...

[Ryo-Hazuki]

MS is known for over-shipping 360s. That is a FACT. PS3 sold more

[LKHGFDSA]

Plus they probably count the replacements for the 70% of consoles from the first couple years that RRoD'd on everyone. (Considering they fully replaced them with new ones)

[wane]

Sony are also well known for over shipping.

[Ryo-Hazuki]

It's crap like this that make the misinformed gamer think PS3 is selling like crap. But truth is PS3 is only 2 million behind Xbox who has had the pricing edge this whole gen. And PS3 has been outselling 360 WW the last 3 years. I guess the only way to get this shit to stop is for Sony to post a profit during the fiscal year consistently

[Adolph Fitler]

Bought a Vita yesterday.....was hard to justify spending that much on a handheld, but it was reduced down to $299, from $349 (non 3G model) & included digital version of LBP2, as well as a pack that included screen cloth, case for unit & seperate game/memory card case.
As I said, it was a yeh, nope, yeh, nope, yeh....ooooh, yeh, thought processs as even with discount, $299 ain't cheap....
But at the same time, considering you get a unit that allows PS3-esque visuals in such a small piece of kit, as well as all those awesome things Sony has done with this little gem of a machine, it's really not that expensive....I mean, I remember I-pads being about $800+ for the 32 or 64gig model, & nobody put up a fuss like they did with PS3, or PSP, or PSVita....it's stupid really, as people who don't wanna fork out $800 for a I-Pad, don't have to, they can either wait until price drops, or buy a cheaper alternative.
Same applies to PS3, Vita, 360, 3DS, etc, etc.
Anyhow, my Vita purchase is a great decision, as there are already a handful of aaa games like LBP2, Gravity Rush, Wipeout, MS, MGS2 & 3, & eventually all PS1 games, & hopefully next PS2 titles will be enabled to run on Vita.

I was happy, as well, that I had supported Sony in there hard times, by buying another one of there great, unique products.
I just hope more of you guys buy up Vita's PS3's if you don't already have one, etc, etc.
Help Sony out & at the same time get an awesome product, & yes, $299 is not really cheap now is it? Yes, for what your getting & the fun you can het from it.

[fabod86]

you can find the wi-fi model at 199 or less everywhere... i got mine here in Italy for 189 euro Gamestop. ;)

[jetlian]

why not wait for the ac3 model at the end of oct? Thats my plan getting that uncharted, and shinobido 2. with ragnarok and gravity daze hopefully

Sony has no new games this holiday besides lbpk and psastars. They going up against halo, forza, and dance central and maybe fable for kinect. I have to agree sony could use a price drop instead of the bundle

[LKHGFDSA]

makes my head explode, couldn't be any more wrong. Given up on the PS3? They're releasing a new model ffs! and all the new exclusives coming within the next year!
doesn't make any sense. troll article.

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

all 3 are in trouble if you ask me, no denying they all have problems!

[Enigma_2099]

Be sure to get your "SONY is doomed in 2013..." articles up and ready. We're not that far off...

[trouble_bubble]

"Sony is coming into the holiday season with an overall weak software lineup"

Spoken like a true brand loyalist Ben. After hearing for the past 2 years from the exclusive-less camps how exclusives are on the way out and don't matter anymore and 99.9999999% of games are multiplat bla bla spin spin apps ftw...suddenly MS actually releases an exclusive AAA GAME or two...and multiplats don't matter anymore.

L...M...F...A...O. So I guess PS3 isn't getting AC3, MOH, Borderlands 2, Black Ops 2, and the odd exclusive of their own like PS: All Stars, LBP Karting -which had a great beta btw-, or the free MMO Dust514, eh Ben?

Suddenly not having Halo 8 or whatever (lets not pretend un-numbered ODST, Halo Wars, Reach don't count ppl) means "weak software lineup" and 'given up on PS3'? Guarantee next year when MS has NOTHING in their pipeline, spinsters like Ben will write an "exclusives don't matter" article to defend their console of choice's dry retirement while PS3 goes out with Sly4, Yakuza5, Puppeteer, GOW Ascension, Last of Us, Unfinished Swan, Ni No Kuni, Last Guardian, Beyond: Two Souls etc etc. They'll be complaining all day that these new IPs should be saved for the PS4 and will still be backspinning. Can't win.

Worst gen' of gaming ever. Journalists don't care about games anymore or new IPs. Brand loyalty has taken the place of common sense. Why play games on multiple consoles when you can just blog? sad state

[Max-Zorin]

I'm surprised this console ''war'' isn't a paralympic sport yet.

[wane]

Not sure why the Sony fans are really hostile, Because what the author says is the truth.

[BrianC6234]

It sure is sickening how morons in the media are always attacking Sony. I blame them for a lot of the problems the PS3 has had. They rarely say anything good about Sony or the PS3. Stop making things look like the end. I won't be spending much money at all this holiday season but it will be spent on PS3 or Vita games. I sure won't be buying a Wii U. Right now is a horrible time to release a new console.

[Dms2012]

If there were one reason I wanted to see Sony fail, it would be Sony fans. Would love to see the reactions.

[Drainage]

well we already know how they would react: DENIAL. The PS VITA has already failed worse than anyone ever anticipated

[Gamer-Z]

I feel bad for Sony, none of their divisions are making money and the PS3/Vita all though they are great systems just don't have the buzz or hype of the other consoles. I hate to admit it but we may very well see the end of the Sony era :/

[TheKayle]

sony is like this coz their base fanboyism they talk arrogant for their base fanboys they sell less etc etc etc

but the truth is one and one for all that company is in trouble ps3 end third and vita is not selling ..tv department is sinkin and....i dont know where they wanna take the money.....continue like this fanboys we love u

[Stoppokingme]

Troll Headline for sure.

Sony will always exist as long as the Playstation exists. The problem with Sony is that they can't compete in the other divisions, such as TVs, stereos, etc, because they are so overpriced.

Playstation is Sony's flagship now. They should scale back other divisions and redirect funds to the Playstation brand, if they did that the PS would be unstoppable.

This coming from an XBOX man. Microsoft needs to do something miraculous next gen to compete. They have the funds,they should do something with it.

[TheKayle]

@ stoppokingme everything from sony is overpriced realize it from the vita to the new superslim ps3... and if not overpriced...just the market dont need piece of hw at that prices..

microsoft is doing all great in the console market (isnt their primary market) doing good and good money so they can always improve themself....i expect the most powerfull console next gen

would be the most logical thing to cut the legs to sony while them r in difficulty..no? and i think they have the money to do it

sorry for my english ...

ps. i cant answer end of my bubble sorry again

[P_Bomb]

I don't even know where to begin with this article.

To paraphrase Ben without the rose-tinted glasses, exclusives only matter if they're XBox (Halo 4), new IPs apparently don't matter if they're PS3 exclusive since Ben claims the PS3 has already quit this gen'. NorthAmerica holiday sales > worldwide. Predicts there's nothing to differentiate the PS4 from its competitors *cough* Gaikai *cough*. And of course anyone who disagrees is simply called out in the Penny Arcade comments as a fanboy, ruining any hope of an intelligent discussion. "Do as I say not as I do". I'm getting too old for this business, lol.

[CShadow]

Anti-Sony what's new already. Sony's still winning.

[rataranian]

Im going to print this article out and take a dump on it. And I dont even have a lot of ink left in my toner.

[tiffac008]

Another article that does not really underline the real problem with Sony.

Stop looking at the PS brand, its Sony's last remaining bread and butter right now.

If you want to look at the problems within the company, you can look no further than their TV division (which is bleeding money) and their under performing PC and MP3 brands.

One division cannot save the entire company. The PS division can only do so much.

[joeorc]

"If you want to look at the problems within the company, you can look no further than their TV division (which is bleeding money) and their under performing PC and MP3 brands. "

OMG, do people even think Sony does not know this, already?

Like Wow!

never mind that Kaz has already addressed this very issue:

"Sony will look at the profitability and potential of each division in the entertainment-to-finance-to-el ectronics conglomerate and assess whether to proceed with each business, Hirai said."

http://www.hollywoodreporte...

PLAYSTATION IS AT PROFIT!
SONY MOBILE IS AT PROFIT!
SONY IMAGING IS AT PROFIT!

where do people think the major cut's are going?

that's right.

Once again!

"Sony will look at the profitability and potential of each division in the entertainment-to-finance-to-el ectronics conglomerate and assess whether to proceed with each business, Hirai said."

instead of major cuts to the parts that are making money Sony is going to make major cut's to part's that are not making money. Sony has increased investment's into Mobile, games and services, and imaging sensor's. it's not rocket science, Sony's mobile market share is higher than Microsoft's and Nintendo's. because Sony is selling 7.4 million smartphones a sales Quarter.

why do you think Sony made the Playstation Mobile platform in the first place?

I get it, a lot of people on here, say Sony need's to do this, or that to turn thing's to the black. Well guess what, Sony is already doing just that, that's why Kaz is in charge and not US on some gamer forum, trying to tell Sony how to do thing's. He's really doing thing's not just jabber jawing.

but..but sony need's to lower the price, hey people, selling the PS3 for $499.00 and $599.00 on a cost to build $800.00+ system was one of the reason's they are in this mess in the first place. Giving the consumer a lot more value for the $$$ has worked very little for Sony so far this generation, I think those day's are all over with now all you hear about is price cut..price cut and even when there is one, people still say Meh.

Well the Price stability SKU of keeping the PS3 the same cost with packed in software and services are pretty much the extras that people are going to get now i would say expect it with every new playstation platform going forward now. No more increased hardware for so cheap, you want it your going to have to pay for it. If you do not think its worth it, well than so be it.

Sony's market share TAKES A MASSIVE Hit so be it, KAZ IS REBUILDING THE Playstation Brand. Market share be d@mned. If fixing thing's to repair their loss'es and keep Sony afloat, and keep the people working @ Sony in their job's is a focus that Sony is concentrating on right now, not some freaking useless fanboy contest in the interweb's.

If Sony remains in 3rd place, than that's what it is, it is what it is, even being in 3rd place the platforms are still getting support and there is still new iP's released every year, that's what it's about if your a gamer its the games.

for Sony

to make Money, Sony has been loosing Money, and Kaz is making sure that's stopping right now.

[tiffac008]

Don't get me wrong. I like Sony's plans for those divisions you have mentioned. I think its a step in the right direction.

BUT!

Nothing what you said has anything to do with turning around the biggest egg in Sony right now and that is their "TV division". Where are the concrete plans to make that single bleeding division profitable again?

And all the profits of those divisions you mentioned will not cover the loses of a single division that I have been pointing out.

The reality is, Sony's plans does not underline their biggest problem and people are losing confidence on them because of this.

Just today Sony's credit rating was cut from BBB+ to BBB and they have been told there will be more cuts to come.

Sony can't continue like this. They need to do something drastic with their TV division. As long as they keep avoiding the issue, its going to be a very very long climb to recovery.

@1upgamer99

Even if the PS3 was selling like hotcakes and making money, nothing can overturn the loses Sony's TV division made. You can check all their financial reports for the past decade and you can see where the problem has really been. So again this article does not underline the real problem with Sony.

[1upgamer99]

So you think that selling PS3 at a loss for 5 years is making money? The software sales did not make up for the money they lost on PS3 hardware.

[Gr81]

Has been losing billions of dollars each quarter for over a decade? Sony's gaming division in particular lost double digit millions this past quarter, Vita sales are abysmal..But hey pointing this out makes you a hater?

Just keep your head in the sand folks. Its nice and dark and quiet down there. Sony's winning after all.

[jetpacksheep]

The article icon was an awesome idea.

[Cueil]

This is effing retarded... as the Da Coach would say STOP IT!

[creeping judas]

And tune in tomorrow for the 360 is failing and is doomed article, in response to this article.

[1upgamer99]

I have said for months since Sony's Main shareholders said And I quote"Sony's managers are failing, and we will not watch them bleed money anymore" So I don't Think PS4 is going to be THAT big of a leap as fanboys think it will be. If PS3 Sold for a basic system at $499 and that was at a loss, what are we going to pay for a PS4? Sony just in the past year and a half started to make a little profit on the PS3's that are sold and that is on a almost 7 year old system...so almost a 5 year loss on every PS3 sold. Look I am not bashing Sony I am just being realistic.

[Max-Zorin]

The people that write these articles are just kicking back and laughing at the anger.