Source 2: it’s time for Valve to drop the baby steps

VG247: Valve was rumoured today to be working Source 2, a brand new version of the studio’s bespoke game engine. Dave Cook looks at the benefits of a serious tech leap instead of the company’s normal increments, and what it could mean for the reveal of Half-Life 3.

[JONESY6]

A Half-life 3 launch on the source engine would be extremely disappointing. Every year without any news of HL3 the more expectations the fans get.

Its fine to spend time on a game to make sure it's good when it gets released. But waiting too long might make fans have unrealistic expectations. Just look at Duke Nukem Forever.

[aliengmr]

Yea but Duke Nukem was never in the same league as Half Life.

HL3 needs to be on Source 2. Source has been great over the years but Portal 2, though great, was showing its age. That's fine, but this is HL3.

[nveenio]

I feel confident that Valve is saving Source 2 for HL3. Half-Life and HL2 were graphics-defining games in their day. They were easily the most beautiful shooters available to the mass market. Surely Valve wants to keep that trend. But with competition from Crytek and other graphically compelling studios, Valve's door to amaze us may be closing fast.

Perhaps they'll launch with the new consoles?

[morganfell]

From the article:

"Rather than slam Valve’s lack of Half-Life 3 communication, gamers should relish the fact that it could launch on the next-generation of the studio’s tech. It’s been a long wait, sure, but do you want something cobbled together on the Portal 2 version of Source, or do you want a game as innovative and mind-bending as Half-Life 2?"

This.

I applaud Valve for going about their business and not bending to the press, whether it is the egoists at IGN, or some fly by night kid in his parents basement hammering away on his self righteous know it all blog.

The hell with these so called journalists who think they has some sort of divine right to direct the course of game development including when and how a company releases information. I just want to step on the necks of these children every time some company stonewalls because their tech and business is on the line and a little mealy mouth reporter throws a fit (Kotaku) and begins forecasting the impending doom of said company.

I am glad to see VG24/7 actually respecting Valves measured pace of development.

[Gaming101]

The source engine is really dated, looks like slightly beefed up ps2 and xbox games at this point, has anyone played the Orange Box lately? Portal 2 had ingenious game design but the graphics left much to be desired, everything was drab and boring, a ton of browns and greys and not much else for 99% of the game or so (in terms of environments).

The engine needs to be able to push better textures given the next generation is just around the corner, Source 2 is a must for the next half life, which will either be HL3 or Episode 3, but quite frankly the wait has been so incredibly long I don'y see Episode 3 being all that relevant at this point given the small number of people who actually played all previous episodes and HL2 - relatively speaking.

[aliengmr]

@morganfell

You have a point, but Valve hasn't even confirmed HL3 is being worked on. In fact, many would prefer it if Valve said it was cancelled, at least then we would have something. Valve is a "black hole" when it comes to anything related to HL3. Aside from some outdated concept art, I'm not aware of anything. We can't really even speculate what HL3 will be about since it really doesn't exist in the first place.

I commend them on controlling the leaks but it would be nice to know I can actually anticipate the release.

[xAlmostPro]

@Jonesy6 & @Gaming101

You guys do realise that Source 2 would be a NEW engine right?..

Also to @Gaming101 specifically. Source looks like a beefed up ps2 engine?..

Portal 2 looked brown and gray?.. did you even play it?.. Portal 2 looked fantastic. Unless maybe you only played the 360 version. How can it be dull brown and grays when the portals are bright blue/orange and walls in most levels are covered in white?.. with red lasers etc.

[CommonSense]

i would prefer it that half life 3 (and all other games) never get mentioned til 6 months before launch. we are too entitled, as consumers. and frankly, i find it annoying hearing about a blockbuster more than a year in advance.

the publishers/developers don't owe us anything.

[meetajhu]

Dota 2 runs on Source Engine 2 but has pre-baked lighting.

[ATi_Elite]

Ummmm Half Life is NOT Duke Nukem Forever and should NEVER be in the same sentence as Duke Nukem anything.

I understand your point but If you had HIGH expectations for Duke Nukem Forever then I feel sorry for you!!

----------

Source Engine 2 would be nice but Valve has said that the Source Engine is fully capable of being upgraded to whatever they need. "Portal 2 PC" looked great and I'm sure more bells and whistles will be added for Half Life 2 Episode 3!

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

The best part about source 2 is that it will be open to the player to make games or movies!

[Ducky]

Don't see why a new engine is necessary.

If it's visuals, then there are games like DearEsther that show that Source can still output amazing visuals (and it is quite optimized)

There really aren't many (any?) inherent problems in the engine that would require a new one to be made.

[SilentNegotiator]

"There really aren't many (any?) inherent problems in the engine that would require a new one to be made"

How about the fact that it flips crap if you try jumping on a platform that is moving vertically? I've seen many people die in L4D because they jumped and fell through the elevator. (and sure, jumping in elevator in L4D is arbitrary, but that doesn't make it any less of a flaw in the engine)

And it's not just L4D. Even the Source games where you don't go through elevators, it seems to have issue keeping players in proper position when trying to jump.

Source absolutely has fundamental issues to iron out. It's a great engine, but it has been around for a long time; it needs to be succeeded eventually, and it's always nice to see sooner than later.

[VanDamme]

So you're saying as long as there aren't many issues, no one should progress and make a new engine?

Totally agree. I haven't upgraded my computer since I got my SNES emulator working.

[Ducky]

^ The question is, what progress would a new engine make?

The current engine is optimized, runs across a wide spectrum of hardware, is capable of impressive visuals, and has a physics engine that can still hold its own.

Without any real improvement, a new engine is a waste of time. It's like buying a new computer with identical parts as your old one. A new computer in itself is meaningless if it has no advantages over the old one.

@SilentNegotiator

True, the elevator in L4D (specifically NoMercy) is more lethal than any zombie in the game. The glitch was cause mostly by the way L4D1 implemented elevators rather than the engine itself. L4D2 didn't have the problem (AFAIK) with the elevator in HardRain.
I don't recall anything bad happening in Portal either, which features a lot of elevators and platforming.

I haven't encountered (or heard) of people having positioning issues when trying to jump. If that was actually flawed, then CS:S and TF2 would've died long ago.

Then again, Valve seems to trying to look for any excuse they can to delay HL3 and just slap a '2' on existing work. So maybe Source2 is going to be their new project. :D

[Grap]

no engine can survive 2 gen in row source engine not only its last gen engine it's engine was created with PS2 and Xbox in mind.

[Ducky]

No engine can survive 2 gens? Tell that to idTech3

[t0mmyb0y]

Gear's of War?

[xAlmostPro]

Source was not created with consoles in mind at all. It was created with valve games in mind.

You do realise this is game engines for a company who make PC games priority first right?..

[TitanUp]

and diablo 3 but yes duke is no half life

[t0mmyb0y]

You are obviously a young person. haah. There's a big difference between DNF and anything Valve has made. I'm actually surprised you have that many agrees. Definitely show's your age group :D too***

[Hufandpuf]

What was Portal 2 running on?

[FarCryLover182]

Source. Same thing Half-Life 2, L4D, TF2, etc. ran on.

[Hufandpuf]

Oh ok, I thought it was on Source 2, but it was just a modified Source engine. thanks

[Pandamobile]

Every game Valve has released since HL2 has been a different modification of the original Source.

Valve tailors new engine directions to suit the games they're trying to build. The L4D/L4D2 builds are quite different from the Orange Box build. Portal 2 is quite different than Team Fortress 2, etc.

[Mythicninja]

So now the team working on half life : black mesa can restart all their work, to the new engine, and still never release the game

[FarCryLover182]

That'll be their excuse.

[mynameisEvil]

You know, I had a friend who was one of the first guys on the team, who's still involved with the development (of course). I asked him how much longer before release, he said, "Oh, we're just putting some finishing touches on it. We estimate it'll be out in December."

Now, you may be thinking, "Wow, now we have a pretty good idea that'll be out in December of this year." NOPE. He said this LAST YEAR.

Yeah... that December 2011 release date worked out spectacularly, didn't it? Now we're 8 months into the next year and all we've gotten was some screenshots. You know, I really wouldn't be surprised if they're waiting for Valve to announce HL3 before they release the game, just for it to fit the whole Half-Life waiting thing.

So, in conclusion... it'll NEVER be released.

[Double_O_Revan]

I've suspected for a long time that's what their plan was. Once HL EP3 development hit the 2 year mark, I thought there could be no rhyme or reason for that kind of development time other then Valve building a new engine and making it HL3.

But even still, after all this time, both should've been completed.

[lonesoul65]

I agree...though when you make 10 times the money you ever made running a game service...i think it hurts your drive a bit.

[xAlmostPro]

Why do they need EP 3 if they can create HL3 with extra episodes for that title?..

[user5467007]

It's funny this comes out a fews days after the article...

"Who Sony’s Special gamescom Guest Could Be"

...

Gabe...no....no he wouldn't.....would he ?

No one was expecting the Portal 2 announcement...just saying

[CashColeTrain1337]

It couldn't be Half Life 3 though because they need to release Dota 2, Counter Strike GO, Left For Dead 3, Dota 3, Team Fortress 3, Portal 3, Team Dota, Counter Portal, then they can talk about Half Life 3. And we still won't see anything.

[bambooman584]

Why would any of these take priority?

[annus]

Edit: I made a derp. Still don't believe Valve would announce a game with this much hype/wanted through Sony though.

[capcock]

I love the source engine. It looks fine and it isn't demanding so even friends without high end rigs can play those games with me!

[Paballo]

Without even an announcement I dont see this game coming out before 2015.
This guy left valve because valve stopped working on 'groundbreaking experiences'.
Half-life games normally have 5 year development cycles so dont expect to be playing around with crowbars and running away from headcrabs anytime soon.

[bambooman584]

If it was on a 5 year development cycle we would've seen HL3 in 2009.

[Eamon]

The reason why Half-Life 3 has yet to be announced is because Valve feels the world is not ready yet. And I mean in terms of security. If the conditions aren't stable enough, an early launch of HL3 could have catastrophic consequences on this planet. I think the employees at Valve have the Earth's best interests in mind when they hold back Half-Life 3. They too would like to continue living in this world without perishing from an unexpected cataclysm.

[3GenGames]

Security? No, they run Steam, they don't need "security." One of the final things they're probably waiting for is for steam and the source engine to release on Linux.

[Eamon]

ah, your comment saddens me. It appears you didn't get the joke :(

[mynameisEvil]

An "unexpected cataclysm" like the Resonance Cascade? :P

[Eamon]

haha something worse I bet

[aliengmr]

Bubble to you.

Indeed man is not yet ready.

[clrlite]

Or perhaps they are waiting until after some kind of cataclysm to release the game.

[EditorAtGNG]

Half Life was a game changer.

Half life 2 was a game changer.

Half Life 3... will be a game changer if: innovative Half Life FPS gameplay + next gen-engine + Steam = profit.

[Hazmat13]

thats what i been saying the day they release Half Life 3 is the day they show off the new engine from them. if there source engine could last this long and be so user friendly and universal, i could not imagine how long the new engine will last.

[rbailey]

Does anyone else think this game won't drop until the next gen consoles release? Or do you all still think it will be out this generation?

[-Gespenst-]

Half Life 3 has to be the flagship title for Source 2. Anything else would be unacceptable.

And yes I absolutely think HL3 should be a next-gen game.

[chukamachine]

I can't wait for Source 2 and HL3.

[MeatAbstract]

Personally I thought Portal 2 looked great. No, it's not the flashy shiny graphics we're used to seeing but it just had its own style and it looked as good as it needed to be.

But Source 2 should be interesting to see. Source was groundbreaking stuff when it was first released, not just in the looks department, but as an engine that can be upgraded over time. It was made so all the individual parts (lighting, sound, textures etc) could be upgraded at different times. So I think its evolved into a fantastic engine. Just wish I could get my head around using the damn thing lol.

[Veni Vidi Vici]

I've been saying for years that HL3 would probably come out with Source2. I could be wrong but I think it just makes a ton of sense. Why else would it take so long to make? Perfect way to showcase your new engine too.

[DJ]

Valve doesn't really hype new stuff until it's ready to show, which I like. Source 1 or Source 2, it doesn't matter. Just bring on the games!

[deletingthis34675334]

Sooooo sick of Valve games rehashing the outdated ancient Source engine again, again and again. A new engine is a must. You can play any of their games even run on a netbook. There is only so much you can do with rusted metal.

[Droid Control]

Half-Life 3 on Source Engine 2. Yum!