Sony posts $312 million loss for Q1 2012; Game division underperforms

"Sony has posted a loss again for Q1 2013, totaling to $312 million. Their game division performed poorly too as you can see below, and showed decline in hardware and software."

[DaThreats]

Atleast the total loss is less than the last fiscal quarter

[NastyLeftHook0]

units (3) | 16m ago XD

Yeah, these numbers were way better than the last fiscal quarter.

[portal_2]

Yes, also I seem to remember a certain $380m acquisition lately...

[portal_2]

Edit...or does this count as 2nd quarter?

[andibandit]

@portal_2

Im no guru at economics, but arent a companys assets included when calculating these things?

[gaffyh]

Even Kaz Hirai can't turn around the company's fortunes in just a single quarter!

I'm more worried about the fact that they expect sales to stay flat for consoles, which to me suggests no price cut and no slim PS3. unless they're just being conservative.

[Diver]

@ten tons,

yep. far too many peeps only looking at the headline.

http://www.engadget.com/201...

Sony's first-quarter figures for 2012 show that despite the company's optimism three months ago, it's made a net loss of $312 million. It pulled in a whopping $19.2 billion in sales for the three months ending June 30th, partly credited to bringing Sony Mobile fully into the family. However, the cost of restructuring the Mobile Products and Communications Division (of which Sony Mobile is a part) came to $143 million, wiping out the additional gains to record a loss of $356 million. Gaming-wise, the PlayStation maker suffered a $45 million loss as falling sales of the PSP and PS3 were only partially offset by the sales of the PS Vita. There was better news in its imaging division, while sales of compact cameras fell, DSLRs and "Professional" products took up the slack, resulting in a profit of $160 million.

In a trend we've seen across the Home Entertainment industry, sales of LCD televisions continued to fall, forcing the company to eat a loss of $126 million. Movie and TV recorded a loss of $62 million, although that's primarily due to a dip in advertising sales in India and the cost of marketing (but not producing) The Amazing Spider-Man, the profits of which won't be recognized until September. Finally, while it spent big to purchase EMI this quarter, big-ticket albums like Usher's Looking 4 Myself and One Direction's Up All Night helped the division make a profit of $92 million. While Sony's treading water to execute Kaz Hirai's "One" Strategy, it's still got $8.4 billion stashed under the mattress, and in the face of lower sales, is hoping that reduced costs will help it make $1.6 billion in profit by the end of March 2013.

[SuperLupe]

"We don’t know how much PS3′s they shipped this quarter as they seem to be combining both PS3 and PS2 now"

Doesnt smell good.

[bobshi]

@gaffyh

I think they expect them to stay flat, rather than falling as we will get the PS3 'Super Slim' to engage new buyers.

[bobshi]

I'd love to know what the disagrees are for, and yet the guy who says there will be no super slims has less disagrees when we've all seen the certification pictures...

Yet more cowards who don't post their point of view...

[BattleAxe]

Within 2 years Sony will have taken a huge bite out of Apple's market share. They're making all the right moves, and they've got the resources to take on the likes of Apple and of course Microsoft. I think that only good times are ahead for Sony.

[nukeitall]

I'm surprised with new hardware, like PS Vita Sony shipped fewer handhelds combined by almost 30% than yoy quarter. Heck the entire division under-performed. MS had similar result, but they got years of earnings to prop them up (and also other very profitable divisions).

Sony is also hiding the PS3 sales number by combining it with PS2. I would have love to see the numbers, as MS too had major decrease in Xbox 360 sales.

It's time for new hardware! I have been waiting for some time now! Kinect was a good start though.

[-Superman-]

Sony needs to make PS4 price right.
If they make PS4 same way as PS3(making costs more than you sell), then you get loss. Lets hope PS4 makes some profit. If Sony PS4 is loss, then we wont see any more exclusives games from Sony. No Uncharted, No LittleBigPlanet, or new IPs.

[BitbyDeath]

Consoles generally always sell for a loss at launch. Money is made back through games.

[cee773]

The only reason ps3 was so expensive is because of blu ray $200 in 06 , now its 2012 and its now under $12 so ps4 will not be as expensive

[Brosy]

I wouldn't expect sony to get in too far over their head when it comes to next-gen hardware. They might take the nintendo route and try to make profit right off bat instead of going into debt just to put out a cutting edge console. Or they could just go under and get it over with.

I bet we wont see a ps4 until 2014. They will try to hang onto the ps3 for as long as they can, before going into debt again. If they choose that route that is. Being an investor in sony right now must be grim.

[cjflora]

Brosy, Sony has shown that their business model is long term. I'm sure that's what they'll do for the PS4. Even if the PS4 comes out within the next couple of year, people will be buying PS3's well into the next gen just like they did with PS2's.

[Anon1974]

It's ugly all around for hardware sales this year. PS2 & PS3 sales combined I think were down 14% in this quarter, 360 sales are down 43% for the first six months of the year, Wii sales were down something like 55% last quarter. The whole industry seems to be taking quite a hit.

Let's hope there's some truth to those $150 PS3 super slim rumors. That would certainly give the industry a much needed boost and ramp up some spending in the second half of the calendar year.

[NBT91]

I think the thing is... It really is time for new consoles. And here is the reason why -

I was able to go out the other day and buy myself a cheap XBOX 360 for only £80 the other day. They sell for £150 usually. The one I got is 2nd hand fair enough but £80 for a console is a steal, now I can go back and get all the games I missed out on not having one for cheap as well.

What I am trying to say is that its got to a point now where they have sold so many now that its easy to find someone selling one 2nd hand for cheap and so a lot of gamers who want the console and its games for the collections (like me) or casuals who just want one for as cheap as possible are just picking them up used now.

And I dont support the whole "USED MARKET IS KILLING THE INDUSTRY!" thing, but this late into the current generation it probably is not helping...

So yeah to cut it short - I think new hardware is needed because console sales for this generation are not going to really increase significantly any more due to so many very cheap 2nd hand consoles available.

I mean... £80 for an XBOX 360? Thats like, little more than the price of two brand new chart games... That is quite a steal and speaks volumes for the value of current gen consoles.

[avengers1978]

Are there any companies not posting loses these days

[Red_Orange_Juice]

SONY, I am disappoint

http://i.imgur.com/ITcy9.jp... ^_^

[Xperia_ion]

The only direction now is up, Sony needs to be picky with their exclusives, it isn't worth supporting a game that is only going to sell 500k or anything below a million. Also they should fire their marketing team. PlayStation mobile is going to help Sony a lot

[nukeitall]

eh?

NO! Sony (like any company) can go bankrupt eventually and nobody wants to touch them with a ten foot pole.

Have you seen Nokia lately?

[Xperia_ion]

I'm a optimistic type of guy. I believe all hard work pays off in the end, do you think the PlayStation brand has been lazy in providing games to its fanbase ? I understand the nature of man and its love for watching things burn, but it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

In a ironic way I think this is a good thing cause it gives Sony the perfect excuse not to come out with PS4, they going to get even more loss if Sony does that, I'm guessing when the PS3 hits ten years then PS4.

[sashimi]

Too big to fail! - US government

Says differently lol

too bad Sony doesn't have a monopoly to fall back on like MS or a huge amount of sheeps to their brand like Apple does.

But what can they do when they do so much business in the states and the dollar isn't worth much compared to their yen causing even more losses.

[greenpowerz]

You just described Sony's past history in many regards. Not so much a monopoly on electronics anymore although many nations are still monopolized by Sony electronics and have a sheepish mistrust for other brands and sheepish loyalty as shown on this site and all over the developed and undeveloped world.

I'm not sure what you mean by "to big to fail usa"

Are saying the reason MSFT is doing well vs Sony is because MSFT is really doing poorly but my government is bailing MSFT out and into success?

*waits for -nathanexplosion- to call me out for calling out nonsense*

[nukeitall]

@sashimi:

US Government isn't a company!

That said, I have no clue what you are trying to say. Sony did have a monopoly at one point with the Playstation 1 and 2!

They lost that thanks to first MS, then Nintendo did them in.

@Xperia_ion:

"I believe all hard work pays off in the end, do you think the PlayStation brand has been lazy in providing games to its fanbase ?"

I disagree, if you work hard in the wrong direction. In business, time and time again has shown that execution is worth far more than ideas and that is where I think Sony isn't doing too well.

Just look at their product history in recent times:

* PS Vita overpriced with lack of software
* PSP Go badly supported
* PS Move non-existant support
* 3D push didn't do much (heck, Sony's own TVs had major 3D crosstalk problems and was among the worst)

One thing they kind of got right ironically, was the PS3 simply because compared to the competition i.e. Xbox 360, it is very very competitively priced from a value stand point. In that respect, Xbox 360 is way expensive!

"it ain't over till the fat lady sings."

True, but it could swing either way!

[SuperLupe]

"too bad Sony doesn't have a monopoly to fall back on like MS or a huge amount of sheeps to their brand like Apple does"

They do have a lot of sheep, do you even read the comment sections in N4G ?

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

SuperLupe, mind telling how the comments of N4G show that Sony has a lot of sheep?

[Dee_91]

its called a recession
google it

[Straightupbeastly]

Microsoft just posted a hefty profit

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

"Microsoft reports first quarterly loss EVER in 26-year history as a public company.
That $6.2billion hit meant that Microsoft lost nearly $500million in the second quarter of 2012, its first quarterly loss as a publicly traded firm"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...

They are worth 50+ Billion and the only lost 500M that is nothing.. They seem to be doing much better than sony.

And now that this is happening..

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

X720 will be a true cross platform console since they own windows and are making it easy for devs to make 360/pc & most likely 720/pc games all on dx11 hardware next gen.

Sony will take a step back if they don't expand to the 600 Million windows pc's with gaikai(though planetside 2 looks amazing).

http://www.engadget.com/201...

MS is a strategic beast! But sony make better games.

[givemeshelter]

Sony has been in financial restructure since the mid 1990's more than 4 times. This goes beyond recession.
This current recession just made matters worse for Sony, however Sony has been in financial trouble since the 1990's overall.
Sony needs to abandon some of its less profitable divisions such as HDTV's and Multi-Media devices and Cameras.
Sony expanded when times were great for them (1970's and 1980's)
However when tougher times hit and more competition cam about in the 1990's-2000's, Sony kept the same business model....even when analysts, investors and the market told them they need to change. They did not and look what has and is happening now to them?

Sony will continue to slide until they do some DRASTIC changes. If not. They won't be around in the next10 years or less.

[Fel08]

Hmmmm than why companies like MS and Apple are having good profits?

[Dee_91]

did i mention microsoft?
i didnt mention apple.. i didnt mention alot of corps thats making a profit in this recssion.
Haha ironically you 2 @straight and fel should actually google it.
Theres no hopee for this site.

[dcbronco]

I think they were just pointing out that Sony's main problem has nothing to do with the recession. Everyone is in a recession, but other companies haven't made the mistakes Sony have. At least they are still projecting a profit for the year. Unless sales continue to decline. They really need a $150 PS3. Sony can't afford another yearly loss. It would probably mean a major restructuring. Far more than the changes made so far.

Or it could be the beginning of the end for the company. Another yearly loss will mean another stock downgrade. If that doesn't happen before the end of the year. And that might lead to the stock being delisted. Which leads to people taking their money out of the company. And that might be the end of Sony.

[Dmarc1]

Yea and I was pointing out recession hits some harder than it hit others...

[Ramas]

they have huge loss, but wanna bet they are paying directors and others way to much? i am sure they are getting like 50k $ a month, but if they are doing such a bad job and sony has a loss why they get payed so much?

[xAlmostPro]

Sony have recently changed director because the previous ones are what got the company in such a state. You do not fall back from millions in losses overnight.

Director salary doesn't even scratch the surface.

Add to that the new director is the only one who's seen the 'losses' and debt shrink so far.

[dcbronco]

I don't think Japanese executives are as greedy as American executives. And 50k a month would actually be cheap for a major companies CEO, but might be closer to what many Japanese CEOs make.. A lot of these clowns in the US make 10-20 million a year.

http://www.huffingtonpost.c...

http://thinkprogress.org/po...

[xAlmostPro]

You have to remember that Sony are on a 'road to recovery' from huge losses and debts.

Despite this being a loss, it's better than the same time last year, which is actually a good thing. It's going to take more time before Sony even get back into a safe area when it comes to money.

Add to this, Sony have been around for years providing way more than Gaming consoles and most things they provided due to modern era have become obsolete, which automatically creates loss for a company providing those things.

Then there's the fact that every single company out there(maybe excluding some banks and world money companies etc) come to an end at some point, Sony however are not there yet.

Give them a chance :)

[Edward75]

Give them a chance??? How long does a person need to wait... 20+ years? For YEARS I've been waiting... Years... This company is garbage.

[kane_1371]

You have been waiting over 20 years for a company to fall apart?
well I can understand your frustration.
Specially if you are a share holder!

Come on guys get serious here!
the big reason for Sony's loss is obvious!
the ever more present competition, Sony is not used to it yet!
they are adapting, slowly but surely!
their Mobile division once held the majority of the shares and along came Apple!
when there are more competition there is always declines!
look at Apple, losing its market share to Android recently.
The best though Sony can do is to either shot down the mobile division or bend even lower for Google.
Cause it seems like the mobile division has been struggling for ever!

[mcstorm]

@kane_1371 Sonys biggest problem is there image and Price.

I love sony products I have 2 Sony TV's Surround sound system and 2 PS3's but they have lost there image of being a WOW company with there products. TV was there biggest market for a long time but Samsung and LG have taken this market off of them. Samsung TV's look just as nice and quality is just as good but the difference between the two is the price. And a lot of people now go for price over name.

But you are also right Sony have lost the following markets over the last 10 years.
MP3 Player to apple, Mobile Market to Apple, Home Console Market to Nintendo and Microsoft, TV Market to Samsung/LG Even the High end PC market sony cant compete in any more.

I think in a way sony did what Microsoft did a few years ago and thought we are to and no one can touch us and then at once they were hit where it hurts but looking at sony as a company they are trying to rebuild this but for them to get back onto the Market in TV's they need to make Low, Middle and high end TV's with a good price point to take on Samsung and LG, In the console department they need to make cheaper consoles and get read of the dead ips or the ones that don't sell that many.

People slag off MS for only giving us a few exclusive games a year but look at the difference is sales over the PS3 exclusives and you can say it is a good business model and at the start of next gen keep them going and add a few more in to the mix as they will have a chance to get a name for its self like Gears has or UC on the PS3.

I do think Sony will get there again but I think it will take another 5 to 10 years.

[greenpowerz]

Sony tv's are being outsold because they sell at a higher premium but have inferior performance.

Sony had a sheeple marketing style. -if they want one they will work harder or work two jobs-

The arrogance from having a monopoly so long has hurt them.

[dcbronco]

@MCStorm

Sony's problem on TVs isn't price. A comparable Samsung model is often the more expensive one now. Sony just isn't the "it" brand anymore. That's Samsung in TVs now. But you are right about the competition thing. Competition has beat then in all of the major categories. They were hit with a perfect storm of problems.

Apple came out with the iPhone. Samsung took over TVs. MS released the 360 and more than that the Wii outsold them both. Apple took over music and companies can no longer cheat people on the price. Companies are competing well against them on everything they make.

Then add the bad decisions like the Cell and Blu-ray. The Cell just needed time for people to get used to it, the Blu-ray cost on the PS3 was much harder to overcome. Consoles are usually in the black per console with the first 18 months, the PS3 was still in the red per console over three years later. It also made gaming a huge drain for a few years instead of the steady income it had been.

I think right now they are struggling to figure out how to increase sales without cutting profits. They know they can't afford another yearly loss. Cut the price of the Vita and cut profits. But sales are bad which cuts profits and support. New PS3 at $150. But can it be sold at enough profit to make up for the Vita shortfall. Can they stop rehashing the same movies and make something that will be a major hit besides Men in Black.

If they can't get it turned around Sony may become a Gaming company only. Or their creditors could make them sell off everything to get their money.

[StreetsofRage]

It really is amazing how the mighty fallen. Sony used to be top dog in almost everything. My old Sony TV XBR Wega used to crush the competition. Sony electronics used to be an easy choice for anybody.

And now their products fall somewhere in the middle to the bottom. Their tv's fall behind others like Panasonic and Samsung. Their laptops, cell phones, tablets, mp3 players, etc... are all near the bottom of the list. And of course, their gaming division. The ps3 is still in last place, Move was a flop, and VITA is having troubles.

Sure the recession has hurt them like everybody else, but that doesn't explain why their products are not as good as the competition.

Plain and simple, the mighty Sony has fallen hard!

[kane_1371]

Their products are still getting good ratings!
it is not the quality that has fallen!
the people's quality expectations has fallen.
They can't afford the more expensive products, not even sumsung or Panasonic's or whatever other company's more expensive products sell very good.
People can't simply dish out, and it hits everybody, specially SONY

[ALLWRONG]

Ratings mean nothing when it comes to money

[Straightupbeastly]

Sony has yet to figure out how to make quality products at affordable prices, that is their problem within the competition.

Sony has always made quality products, they are just so expensive. For the affluent and elitists not the general masses

[ipe]

Panasonic is having 5x bigger loses than sony.
Its not about quality anymore, its price.

Samsung is one of very few from east that is doing good thx to lower prices(more products in low-mid range)and successful copy cat of others.

U dont pull company out of deep sh*t overnight.

[InTheLab]

You don't know Samsung if you think they make better products than Sony...particularly their s***ty tvs. Google Samsung/dead pixel class action lawsuit. Samsung is the worst electronic manufacturer in the world and the customer service is terrible (google that too).

I'm speaking from experience. I tell them that their s***ty Tv I bought 13 months ago has a huge line down the left side of the tv. They tell me they've never heard of that problem. I google it, and they're currently being sued for it...lol. They told me it would cost $100 just to have a tech look at it, or I could go f*** myself.

Now, my two Sony Bravias work just fine. The one I bought 5 years ago finally had a bulb go out and it costs $30 to replace it. The LCD I bought 3 years ago has never failed....

People need to stop spreading the myth that Sony makes bad products and that they're overpriced. They make some of the best products and they're fairly competitive with pricing.

Trust me....I don't know about Panasonic but DO NOT BUY A SAMSUNG TV unless you like pissing away 2k.

[greenpowerz]

The world knows Samsung is making the better product for less sometimes. It's the reason the brand is taking over in Asia, Europe and has monopolized the Americas.

Samsung is out innovating most competition or taking bigger risks merging tech from other industries first.(primitive Kinect tech in TV etc) They come out with the best looking TV's setting the example. Picture quality starts at Solid and end at excellent throughout series or price points.

I just hope the worldwide VGcharts being used to brainwash away sales news amd facts stops now. I post worldwide 2011 sales numbers from the companies themselves and get VGcharts thrown in my face as a debunk counter to my info despite nothing offered by Sony that would change momentum. A week from now Sony fans will be saying Sony is doing great and PS3 is selling the most worldwide no matter what.

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

You have to consider that tech is evolving too fast. Only 10 years ago we're almost all stuck with CRT. Now we have 240Hz 3D 1080p LED displays largerly available. And this didn't came in one jump but in a gradual evolution... Resolution evolved from SD to ED, HD and finally Full HD, not to mention we already have better resolutions in R&D. CRT were made HD, than DLP, LCD and LcoS appeared, after that Plasma and more recently LED, soon to become spread AMOLED. Also we moved away from the basic watching TV to many features like interativity, internet, 3D and now even kinect like controls.

And not only tech's evolving much faster, it's getting cheaper faster too, which in such a bad economy, blury the lines between high end and low end even further.

I'm no market researcher but I assume that's what most changed the market in favor of cheaper consumer elctronics that are no longer seen as highly durable goods. The way we perceive quality had changed. Once quality was more about reliability, but right now the features available are much more defining in what is high end or low end.

Don't matter if your TV, phone or PC can last 10 years if you'll probably be willing to buy a new one in 2 or 3 years. Same way, why pay the premium for a realiable high tech TV if you can get the same features on cheaper brand waiting 6 months or 1 year.

Of course not everyone sees the same, but I believe that this change of perception is what demands Sony to start persuing the low end market (not only on TVs, but on many of their electronics).

This also may effect the gaming market in the future, the whole concept of consoles as non-changing hardware may be due, this generation we already had seen HD-DVD and motion controllers added down the road, but I guess this won't affect us much before the generation after next (PS5).

[insomnium2]

@bishop

So in essance we people are more after instant gratification than ever. We don't care about how long this TV is going to last on me since we are bound to buy a new one in a year or two.

This instant gratification is BS to me. Nothing but kids with their toys. This is what I've been blaming MS of with x360 for years. The x360 was not a long term plan only a quick cash grab. Don't tell me that deep down most of us people are like this or I'll lose faith in all mankind. Do we all have ADHD? Is that it?

[gamingisnotacrime]

I have plenty of sony products, from tv to tablet and ps vita

I am happy with my purchases. True the tv and tablet may not be the best in the world, but is plenty good. The vita and ps3 has been gaming heaven for me. Sony is a little dumb when it comes tosupport their products, but my experince is very good.

Not perfect, not even the best around, still for my preference sony tvs are my choice. Thetablet is plenty sweet, the ps brand is just great

[Apex13]

no doom and gloom talk for the Sony corp then lol. people are funny and if you only understood.

[CharlesDCI]

Eh. There recent announcements tell me they will turn things around.

[an0nym0us]

and over saturation of the same shit, and shit that's not even in demand(MotorStorm). If your going to "copy" COD, do it right, But you don't copy from your fellow developers we don't need a "drake" in every fcking Sony game.

I'm really pissed about motorstorm the series suck really bad, because it's an lackluster off-road racer. Decent modern racing games are lacking this gen, Evolution should change motorstorm into a modern car racer, with just your basic CARS, (Tuner Exotic Muscle, no fcking Trucks). I want, to customize my car and race it everywhere the city included, just not only the city.

Oh yeah no generic white males in my racing games please. I want racing to be about racing, not about how John Doe and his main bitch gets from Point A to Point B.

[BitbyDeath]

You kidding? Motorstorm is the best offroad racer ever IMO

[JellyJelly]

Dirt 3 begs to differ.

[Minato-Namikaze]

I love motorstorm, I have all 3 PS3 games. dirt 3 doesnt come close.

[BlaqMagiq24]

So you say that Sony has a lack of creativity and you mention MotorStorm? Wow what a fail.

[DialgaMarine]

Care to name a game console that contains more variety, quality, originality, and innovation than the Playstation system? Last I checked, Xbox is currently relying on 3 IPs, 1 of which has had 8 games over the course of 11 years; the Nintendo is still playing off the same old Italian plumber going on 30 years now.

If you're going to criticize one side, how about you bring up a better alternative with real-world examples to build your argument. You're entire comment was a miserable failure to anyone with a 9th grade education or higher.

[dcbronco]

Dialga

The problem is Sony's way isn't working. You can put out a ton of exclusive IP and bring in a new disc but it has to be a deciding factor. The exclusives aren't enough to overcome price and the disc system cause the price that kept systems from selling. Nintendo and MS are making millions with the same stuff over and over.

Most people tend to eat the same things over and over because it's what they like. Nintendo and Microsoft is willing to sell them those things. Most people say they want something different, but when it comes they fall back on what they've always known.

New IP is great. But it must introduce something new. Not just a new skin on an old idea. Heavy Rain was something new. It was a poorly executed QTE about mundane stuff like brushing your teeth. New IP has to have new mechanics or physics. And stop trying to sell a product for one group to the wrong group. LBP was casual. But they were trying to sell to a group that considered itself, and brags that it is, hardcore.

[seanpitt23]

Well if it carries on we will probably see Sony for much longer they need to come up with something quick and fast.

[wages of sin]

I don't know why anyone is surprised by this.

The American market is the most important market for gaming. Sony lost that the moment the 360 was launched. Nintendo has sold more than both, but, out of the main two "HD consoles," ie., the real heavy hitters, Sony lost big time. Market share and mindshare mean something in reality.

Their market share has been sucked up by Microsoft: a company they dismmissed and didn't take seriously, and now they are paying the cost. VITA is/was DOA-no, it's not going to make a comback-and market saturation has taken it's toll on the "Big 3." PS4 won't change this either so don't get your hopes up.

I see Sony going 3rd party like SEGA did back in the day. That or teaming up with Nintendo to survive. Either way, MS has more than proven themselves and (imo) the better console has "won." A bunch of announced exclussives-most of which are mediocre, especially compared to other 3rd party games-many of which havne't been released (FFXIII VS) and wouldn't make a difference anyway.

[Edward75]

I think it would be best for them financially to do this also.... Or the company will sink even further. Make those awesome games... Sell them on any platform... Big bucks$$!

[dcbronco]

If Sony continues to be dragged down by products that don't sell they might have to go that route. If they don't make a profit for this fiscal year they will be downgraded and maybe delisted. They would most likely have to file for bankruptcy and it may no longer be their decision how they handle their divisions.

Third party might be their best bet. But they are apparently far into the process of a new console. Sony phones are 10% of the market and the profit is small on them. Not much of an option. And the power on Tablets is increasing each year and they will become the better option. AMD will launch a tablet chip soon with a desktop level GPU. A tablet with a kickstand and a controller beats a phone every time.

Phones are fine for what the market is right now. But as more hardcore gamers use them as their mobile device the quality will have to rise and a controller will be needed. And tablets can have an advantage there. Sony just may have been too slow to adapt and their time might be over. But it seems that no one at Sony was thinking that way. They have been arrogant in the past and it may cost them everything.

They forecast higher profits for the coming year and so far they have dropped those predictions over 30% after the first quarter. One thing is guaranteed, if that trend continues the rest of the year, they may not be around to go third party.

[Lvl_up_gamer]

@ dcbronco

Lets hope that it doesn't come down to that. Imagine Sony taking the MS route when it comes to company strategies. MS has done a great job with getting the 3rd party support and streamlining their internal games division. Now imagine Sony doing the same thing.

It's bad enough that 5 different retailers will offer special extra's for the game if you buy it through them, now imagine going through all that and then having to decide (if you are a multi console owner) which system to get it for since Sony and MS have "negotiated" opposing special exclusive content for their respected system....

Sony makes some really great new IP's as well have a solid portfolio of franchise dating back to the PS1 era. I think Sony just needs to stop with all these HD remakes and just expand on the franchise. Where is my current gen JetMoto Sony? New IP's are great, but you can't keep coming out with new IP's if nobody wants them. People LOVE Sony's older games, yet Sony doesn't want to expand on them for the current gen. Many were not even shooters yet Sony refuses to do it....I just don't get it.

MS keeps pumping out Halo's, Forza's, Gears or Wars and Fables simply because it's what their fanbase wants. MS makes money hand over fist. There is no reason why Sony can't. Sony has more IP's expanding the last 3 gens then what MS has so I have no doubt that Sony could be making a larger impact in the Western Market then they currently have if they just developed beloved games from the past for this gen rather than HD remakes.

[joeorc]

"I see Sony going 3rd party like SEGA did back in the day. That or teaming up with Nintendo to survive. Either way, MS has more than proven themselves and (imo) the better console has "won." A bunch of announced exclussives-most of which are mediocre, especially compared to other 3rd party games-many of which havne't been released (FFXIII VS) and wouldn't make a difference anyway."

Its funny you Say Sony will go 3RD party than , you say Sony will team up with Nintendo as it's like Sony's only choice's?

really?

If it's about Mind share and Market share Nintendo or Microsoft would be the Last companies Sony would team up with at this point, it would be Google, or Samsung first or Even Apple for iOS?

you may say no, but the Market share and Mind share say other wise.

when Samsung TV's and Sony they themselves Make smart TV's have chipset's that provide advanced Mobile Games for HDTV's, why do you think Sony made the Playstation Mobile software exactly for?

Sell Games on a Game console market that sell in ten year's time maybe 150 million or follow me here, when they can reach many times that many in the Mobile market and the Smart TV arena at a faster rate, where currently Sony is concentrating a much more heavy investment than even Microsoft or Nintendo are at this point anyway!

it seem's many seem to think Sony if they leave this arena that they would have to support Nintendo or Microsoft, why?

Apple and Android Get's quite a bit Support without needing to support Nintendo or Microsoft!

just because Sony may go 3rd party would not mean outright defacto that Sony Has to support Microsoft or Nintendo for Sony's software ip's.

which as you said:

"A bunch of announced exclussives-most of which are mediocre, especially compared to other 3rd party games-many of which havne't been released (FFXIII VS) and wouldn't make a difference anyway."

If they as you said are mediocre, why would Microsoft or Nintendo even care to have them on their systems, or better yet why would they even pay Sony for the iP to be exclusive, like they already do with other 3rd party publisher's?

Sony could do that already with the other consumer electronic's market Like Google TV!

As for market share and Mind share in the Mobile Market even Sony has higher market share than even Nintendo and Microsoft both.

Sony is selling over 22+ million Xperia smartphones per year from last year! Sony is increasing that to over 33 million for this fiscal year!

if anything Sony would move to the Mobile and smart TV's sector more than sticking to the game console market! where they can compete with out directly competing just like already Apple and other's are already doing.

[wenaldy]

What? Thats it i quit supporting sony, and i'll never buy their exclusives.. /s

[VonBraunschweigg]

Interesting for stockholders. Another year of losses, yet good games keep on being developed. Interesting for gamers indeed. You're a gamer, not a stockholder.

For 3 months now I've been enjoying Starhawk online like nothing before, it's truly unique...from a gamer's perspective. Saleswises it flopped due to no advertisement whatsoever, but it sold enough for a healthy community. Stockholders aren't smiling, but what do I care looking over a battlefield with Hawks and tanks exploding everywhere:)

[TheSaint]

Have we seen MS financials yet? If not isn't it a bit early to be heralding the doom of Sony?

Lets wait until they release theirs before judgment is passed.

[ALLWRONG]

Microsoft has a hell of a lot more worth, can't compare the two that way. Only things you can compare is gaming. Company vs company MS can buy Sony 4 times.

[Hicken]

We talking worth, or profits and losses?

Who gives a damn what Microsoft is worth if they post even heavier losses than Sony did? YOU sure as hell wouldn't be okay if the shoe was on the other foot. If Sony were worth more, you'd be saying, "Oh yeah? Well let's wait and see how big Sony's losses are!"

Man, you guys really trip me out. You have NO real interest in Sony, except to troll related articles. Yet, despite all your claims to the contrary, you get away with it virtually EVERY time.

So much for this site being run by Sony fanboys. One look at the ridiculously trolling comments here that are allowed to remain is all anyone with a modicum of common sense needs to see how ignorant that statement is.

[BrutallyBlunt]

"Who gives a damn what Microsoft is worth if they post even heavier losses than Sony did? YOU sure as hell wouldn't be okay if the shoe was on the other foot. If Sony were worth more, you'd be saying, "Oh yeah? Well let's wait and see how big Sony's losses are!"

And if Microsoft reported huge losses would you have the same attitude coming into the topic? No you would not. So why are you continually attracted to people exactly like you but argue they are the problem?

"Man, you guys really trip me out. You have NO real interest in Sony, except to troll related articles. Yet, despite all your claims to the contrary, you get away with it virtually EVERY time. "

And you yourself have admitted many times you have no interest in the XBOX360 yet talk about them and go into topics about it. You also show no signs of ever liking Kinect yet you also go into those topics and even troll them occasionally. You've also made it well known you don't like Microsoft but still comment about them and go into topics pertaining to them. So how can anyone take your arguments here as anything but sour grapes when you do the same damn thing?

"So much for this site being run by Sony fanboys. One look at the ridiculously trolling comments here that are allowed to remain is all anyone with a modicum of common sense needs to see how ignorant that statement is."

There is ignorance all around and it also comes from you too. This site has far more action in the PS3 forums. In fact the ratio of the PS3 compared to all other systems including the PC is 2-1. That is all those systems compared to just the PS3 forum. So tell me again how this site is not run by Sony fans? I'm also a Sony fan as i own a PS3 but do you see me traumatized by XBOTs like you are? Do you see me not enjoying my PS3 because of what some clown says? Do you see me fight tooth and nail for Sony at the cost of downplaying Microsoft because they are far more competitive this generation? Grow up and enjoy your games amd stop this insanity of going in circles.

[ALLWRONG]

My point was you can't really compare anything other than gaming. MS doesn't make TV's, Blu-ray players, or own a movie studio, and Sony doesn't make operating systems. Xbox vs Playstation is all you can compare. If you compare MS vs Sony than it would be unfair because MS has more $.

As far as you not liking pro Xbox comments, sorry bro you have us beat. This is N4G, for every one pro Xbox comment there are 5 pro Sony. You may have a few negative comments here and there but on the Xbox side more than 50% are negative.

Pro xbox comment can = 30 agrees and 200 disagrees

Pro Sony comment 200 agrees and 10-15 disagrees.

[Lvl_up_gamer]

@ Hicken

I don't think you understand the level of corp loss here.

Lets say MS is worth $4 and Sony is worth $1.

If Sony loses 50 cents and MS losses 75 cents, which company is looking worse for future products and services?

MS would be worth $3.25 and Sony would be worth .50 cents.

Allwrong was just making a point that MS has so much money that a large loss of even a larger loss than Sony still keeps them ahead in the game whereas Sony would be in extreme jeopardy since they don't have as much money to lose as MS does.

I don't think Allwrongs comment was a fanboy trolling comment. Stop being so sensitive.

[victoryscreeeeeech]

I assume no one wants to accept this cuz there are a variety of opinions on the comments but so far only 2 comments have more agrees than disagrees, one of them saying that Motorstorm is a great game. Sorry for bad grammar and if you guys disagree with me reply to me because i would like to know why.

[chukamachine]

SONY.

This is what happens when you continue to make games hardly anyone wants.

Do not make another Socom. It will not make you any money.

Stop changing formats of games that people enjoyed.

On the subject of TV'S.

You only needs 3 types that all do 3d.

Min spec, med spec, high spec. Make it simple. That's what apple does.

[NastyLeftHook0]

"This is what happens when you continue to make games hardly anyone wants."

people dont want game of the year, award winning graphical beasts, creative and original games? yeah, bs.

wishingW3L yeah i agree man i wish they would advertise more, dont get me wrong, i would rather have them spend money on games but advertising those games needs to be done, there great games.

[wishingW3L]

I blame the marketing. The games need more exposure but Sony's at a point where they can't make a Triple A game and then put half a billion dollars toward marketing too like MS does.

[green]

@chukamachine

I completely agree with you on the TV aspect. I read a few months ago that SOny's TV line consists of 31 different models..WTF!!

It is just too many and confuses the consumer. Apple has just one iphone and one ipad with different HDD specifications and it is a model that has aided their growth because it is easier for the consumer to choose one that serves their needs.

A 3 spec model like you mentioned would be the best. Put quality, style and affordability at the fore front of your products,make it obvious to consumers and they will buy them.

[Qrphe]

Did anyone honestly and realistically expect them to recover in one quarter?

Either way a loss is a loss.

[shikamaroooo]

It pulled in a whopping $19.2 billion in sales for the three months ending June 30th

the cost of restructuring the Mobile Products and Communications Division (of which Sony Mobile is a part) came to $143 million

DSLRs and "Professional" products took up the slack, resulting in a profit of $160 million

The Amazing Spider-Man, the profits of which won't be recognized until September.

the PlayStation maker suffered a $45 million loss as falling sales of the PSP and PS3 were only partially offset by the sales of the PS Vita

LCD televisions continued to fall, forcing the company to eat a loss of $126 million. Movie and TV recorded a loss of $62

Kaz Hirai's "One" Strategy, it's still got $8.4 billion stashed under the mattress, and in the face of lower sales, is hoping that reduced costs will help it make $1.6 billion in profit by the end of March 2013.

Pretty Much summarises evertything

[x360forever]

and now ps3 will drop price to 200$ = even more sales

[Ramas]

samsung is taking over, they have same quality tvs as sony, but cheaper, they have phones cheaper and better and many other things.
I would not be surprised if we will see a samsung gaming console sooner or later :)And if they would buy that studio that made domon souls/dark souls (they are all koreans, same like company samsung) imagine console Samsung pulsar with exclusive demon/dark souls game :)

[InTheLab]

God...another one. Do you own a Samsung Tv? Their tvs have a shelf life of 6 months.

http://reviews.cnet.com/830...

That's most of their tvs from 2008 but what's f***ed up is the fact that IT'S STILL HAPPENING!!!

[testerg35]

I have a samsung 55" 3d led tv for way over 6 months and no problems so far.

[kane_1371]

Not completley true, samsung has products that are good, but my personal experience with SONY products says They will last you a life time IF you treat them right!
I have a SoNy tv in my living room over 20 years old and still working!
A DVD player that is 10 years old.
A cassette player over 25 years old a Walkman over 8 years old.
And a 6 years old PS3
Now I dare you!
really dare you!
show me another company do the same!
Although Panasonic, Philips, Samsung are companies that I enjoy their products, but my personal experience has proven me that Sony lasts you a long time!
now again.
This is only my personal experience, I know there are other people not as fortunate as me.
So don't come telling me "my Sony this, my Sony that"

[glennco]

you are a delusional fanboy letting your bias cloud your comments. Sony does not produce better products than Panasonic. They do however have a better marketing department (just not when it comes to the Vita). My family have had serious problems with both sony TVs and cameras. I have a mate who used to work for in the warranty dept and there are constant recalls for whole failed product lines. Not saying they suck, but don't be thinking they are any better than panasonic or even clo0se to perfect these days. you can say it about the other companies though.

just buy made in japan if you want peace of mind. both companies sell made in japan products

[kane_1371]

@glennco
The only delusional fanboy here is you!
I said my personal experience!!!
And then even said some might have had other experiences, but mine is this.
Now you have got the nerve to tell me my experience is a delusion?
Get lost!

[green]

I taught I heard people saying that Sonys gaming division was profitabl because according to this reports, the gaming division lost $45 million this quarter. Or are they now back to loosing money again?

[samson-1]

You heard people in denial. Sony as a whole has been losing money for years.

[Bladesfist]

The recession is not the main reason why the company is failing. You need to adapt. Steam has doubled its profit every year for 7 years.

[cuddlemonkey]

We as a gaming community must buy more Sony gaming products to help our gaming forefathers out, we need more ps3s and hell let's buy a vita each and get the numbers up so the developers get on board and make the big games for us, let our powers unite, and hell you know what? Gather around people *hugs*

[Siren30]

Goto love the damage control. If Microsoft reported a $50 loss the fanboys would all be claiming doom.

[Teaber]

what!?! this must be fake! lol

[M83_]

It's all my fault lads! :(

I'm not buying enough games and I'm not pulling my weight!

[Trenta27]

Just give me my amazing Vita games and I will be happy. You already have my sales for Beyond, God of War, etc. I just want Vita games, damn it!

[InTheLab]

For all of this talk of Sony fanboys running this site, this article sure does have a lot of MS fanboys cheering on the bad news and pointing out "damage control".

I mean, there's more of that going on than people defending Sony.

[Bladesfist]

No there is not, you just see more as you are a sony fanboy. I don't own either console and I can see the bias on this site and this page very clearly.

[mochachino]

Sony has so many good products and ideas but they never seem to really get behind anything, with the exception of PS3 of course. But even it has so many half-assed projects (Move, web browser, etc).

I hope they turn it around, I shutter at a console industry dominated by MS.

[neutralgamer19]

For you analysts and mathematicians. These are official numbers and look closely at gaming (specifically)

http://www.sony.net/SonyInf...

Gaming specifically is profitable for them. We all know that these divisions are comprised of other things that end up negating that profit.

[neutralgamer19]

And yes thats only up until the end of 2011 beginning of 2012 but ppl always think that gaming hasn't been profitable for them and it has been.

[Man_Among_Mice]

Title: Sony posts $312 million loss for Q1 2013; Game division underperforms

Just wondering how do you post a loss for a quarter that hasn't happened yet? :P

Last time I checked we were only halfway through 2012. Unless I went rip van winkle there for a while. :/

[neutralgamer19]

Everyone has lost money this quarter but be sure that at the end of it all Sony will return to profit this year.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Look.. my take away from this isn't doom and gloom...but its not rosey either. Just like MS...hardware is slowing down on the console side. Tack on to that R&D costs that are happening most likely for the PS4 and you can easily see where numbers would be down. Vita is certainly a big concern, you can't sugar coat it...it's just under performed big time. Price cuts may be a solution for Vita but its really hard to say at this point.

[OldSnakePS3]

as a sony fanboy im doing my job dammit!
got starhawk, twisted metal, journey, sly 2 hd, ME3,
and renewed my ps plus sub for the year

waiting for sly 4, the last of us, gow:ascension, beyond 2 souls , ps allstars battle royal, last guardian, r&c hd collection, and okami hd

btw all the sony haters are just jealous hoping they fail and the BEST EXCLUSIVE GAME LIBRARY in the business gets ported to their "system"

haters gonna hate
LONG LIVE PLAY(station)

[Belking]

I don't think anyone is hoping sony fails. That would be devastating for the industry and for sony. The truth is that they really need to turn things around. The sooner the better.

[CoryHG]

I like how it's perceived that Sony loses this b/c of lack of playstation sales when it's not. When you see what Nintendo and Microsoft put up numbers, they have less merchandising than sony as a whole. If sony didn't charge out the ass for tv's that were equal to vizios maybe they'd turn a profit.

[BuffMordecai]

Its pretty disgusting when one of the only companies willing to take risks and deliver new game experiences is also the one with the most financial problems.

[attilayavuzer]

That's a lot of McDoubles...

[Buff1044]

Face it, PS fans...the goose is cooked!

[Adolph Fitler]

People need to start buying more of the awesome PSN titles like Journey, Dead Nation, etc, etc, there are sooooo many games on PSN worth your time that it is crazy for gamers not too buy some of these reasonably priced, awesome titles. I mean, Festival Of Blood is an awesome stand alone title, there is so much available on there that anybody that calls themselves a gamer that doesn't own 20-30 PSN titles is kidding themselves.

Then theres the full game releases, I mean, Insomniac racked off & gave away the previously awesome Resistance series thanks to mediocre sales, now that ain't Insomniac's fault as each time they put everything into the 3 Resistance's games for PS3 they made, & Ratchet, up to A Crack In Time were steadily better & always of a high Mario-esque quality, in fact, A Crack In Time was the best, most different, & last touch of Insomniac awesomeness the Ratchet series would see. So every PS3 owner worth there salt should have supported Insomniac....too late now as they've gone multiplat & may suffer like many that have gone from console exclusive to multiplat before (Free Radical, Oddworld Inhabants to name 2).
But, there are many like Insomniac used to be like ND, Sucker Punch & co who make great games & need continued MASS support.

Then there are the Sony owned guys like Guerilla, Santa Monica, etc, etc, in which already some really great inhouse studios have suffered casualties like London & Cambridge studios who are responsible for such greats as Medievil (Medievil for f%$ks sake people), & The Getway, Primal, Ghosthunter, The Mark Of Kri, (these are 2 studios that have never really made a bad game), yet, this gen has seen Sony can games they had in production (The Getaway 3 & awesome looking 8 Days), in favour of (mis)placing them on Singstar games, & screwing around with Home, then cutting staff & merging 2 once great independant studios into one. How crap is that?, they never even were given the chance to fight for there lives with a game each this gen. And that is in large, thanks to me-too gamers all buying the same crap (like constant Madden, Fifa, NBA Live, etc, etc updates), instead of trying something new, like the exceptionally good new IP that released on PS2 in Primal, & awesome graphically beautiful beast (I mean this game showed that Xbox didn't have such a power gap on PS2 at all, it was that visually splendid), also The Mark Of Kri (another 1 of last gens. best & most fun games IMO) was largely ignored even though it had a strong pedigree & was an awesome game.

[Mkai28]

Indeed, that's the thing. Sony having all these companies could end up being a double edge sword. Sony surely loves they're consumers with all these exclusives. But how are they selling, are ppl like you and me buying them? Are they using the ps3 as a media hub? It's like giving good things to your spouse but they don't take heed to it.

Fanboys talk about how great Sony is( most of them kids) yet they don't buy the games, either because they rent them or they just can't afford them? This is the reason why I think Microsoft holds back on buying companies, I believe too many of them ( as crazy as that sounds) would end up hurting them. I don't think it would be good in a business since. With most ppl buying third parties via COD, assassin creed, mass effect, madden, nba 2k, ect. To be honest I would love $m to have more exclusives, but if they had the amount Sony has you end up competing with yourselves and it is showing.

Having too many sweet cakes in one place can be a problem, because you take two or three to fill your appetite and disregard the rest.

[Adolph Fitler]

The Twisted Metals, Starhawks, & others that people are holding off buying, need your money.....hell, if you already own the game, squeeze your stingy mates, & force there hand in there wallets by constantly big noting the game, so they'll buy it...preach to them how much better than COD it is online.
It is actually beneficial to you & all other owners of these games to get more people playing them, as otherwise with too small a number, the online portion of some of these games will die far too early.
I mean, Resistance 3 should have nutso ammounts of people online, yet it doesn't, as it didn't sell well. WTF, anybody who has played the game, knows it's sacrilidge for this game not to have millions playing it. It is one of the best online shooters going. Well, one of the best shooter full stop.

So comon people, I know there are many like me that buy anything & everything of quality & especially from studios synonomous with franchises we love & of quality, & many who maybe can't afford such luxories (just buy what you can, when you can then).......but there are also just a bunch of stingy, tighta$ses out there that think they can take there money to the grave with them, or only think Call Of Duty Rip Ya Off Rape Yo' A$$ Map Pak 4 for MW3 is worth taking there wallet out for, that is until B.O.'s 2 arrives. Comon people, experiment & give some of these other games a try, I mean Sony has THE BEST inhouse developers going today, but these financial woes have already seen casualties & if they keep losing money, there inhouse studios will suffer, meaning when it gets down to the biggest losers.....well, that is undenaibly US...The gamers.

[Adolph Fitler]

And Richard....Get over yourself douche. Rack your brain back to Giant Enemy Crab Weakspots, & Riiiiidge Racer & all the ridiculous nonstop Sony bashing that went on for 12months before PS3's launch & for 2yrs after, or more. Even MS, with a console that was 100% faulty for it's 1st 2-3yrs didn't cop hardly any grief, compared to how Sony, Ken Kutaragi were treated for almost nothing. I mean, Kutaragi's huge crime against humanity was stating that, "PS3 would want to make you work overtime to afford one". A statement that is totally innocent of anything wrong when thought about logically.....I mean, all it says is that you'll want a PS3 bad enough, you'll be willing to work harder & longer to get one. It just hypothetical marketing that morons in mass media misconstrewed into, "the only way you'll afford a PS3, is if you work extra hours to be able to afford one".

Sony copped THE SINGLE worst bashing by mass media, & rabid Sony hater fanboys alike, of any company in the enntire corporate world, let alone merely just the console manufacturing world.
So to hear you crap on that Nintendo cop a walloping from the media & such is all in your little Ninty fanboy mind, as Nintendo have been THE MOST praised of all 3 this gen. & any stories you see on N4G's relating to Nintendo'd demise or potential for, have all been done & are continued being done on both Sony & MS, probably even moreso. So remove those fanboy blinkers & you'll see plenty of negative media relating to your non-favoured console manufacturers.

And, step back 5 & 6 years & google stories on Sony, & you'll see one of the worst cases of media bullying, & media bash up's against Sony, merely because they were the "TALL POPPY" for 2 years running & sold record ammounts of consoles that still haven't been equalled. They copped the harshest, most unfair, horribly misconstrewed, twisted, media/fanboy beat ups EVER. All done for 2 reasons in my opinion, 1. The only reason most attribute it 2 & the most logical for people who think the better of people & Nations. 2. The fact that a U.S. console manufacturer had never enjoyed success in the business, Trip Hawkens, the EA convert to 3DO company, & his ill fated 3DO being 1 & probably the best example, was trompled by the 2 Japanese giants in Nintendo & Sega.
So MS being as huge as they are, had U.S. media sway by way of cash & the huge hand it can give in media persuation, as well as the good ol' never to be underestimated power of patriotism.

Anyhow, stop whining about how Nintendo's harsh, unfair treatment....as they are the only company where there fanboys can mass accuse them of copying & ripping of Nintendo's ideas & technology, while they go back to playing there copy of Powerstone with Mario. So shutup, & just enjoy your games.
Nintendo have copped bugger all criticism, even after releasing the most underpowered, over gimmicked console of all time. Good on them, I'm not gonna bash them....Hell, I may even get me a Wii-U, depending on how powerful it ends up being & what happens with PS4/720 timeframes......but stop being a rabid fanboy, whom thinks Nintendo do no wrong, invented the wheel & are the only company that cop negative stories & fanboy hate. Cause your full of crap, & a fanboy.

[dboyman]

Well said. +Bubble for you

[InTheZoneAC]

the question is, how much they profited this year. Who cares about loss. If profits were still hundreds of millions I'd say they're doing well.

[miDnIghtEr20C_SfF]

"We don’t know how much PS3′s they shipped this quarter as they seem to be combining both PS3 and PS2 now"

OUCH! Starting to combine the Playstation Family again.

[jocomat9]

i don't wanna believe this so its false.

[Smokingunz]

I'm not surprised at all!

[PixL]

All these people being happy that Sony is losing money must really hate gaming after all those IPs and consoles the company introduced into the market in the last 15 years.