It’s ok to leave out the gay (an open letter)

HEAVEmedia pleads with game developers to nix the idea of adding gay characters to games and argues the gaming community has not reached the level of maturity to adequately deal with themes outside of their collective comfort zone.

[CustardTrout]

People should learn that there's no issue with it from an early age really.
This is an interesting read because you're not saying that it's wrong, you're saying people are too stupid.

The Mass Effect 3 Google thing is a bit irrelevant, when Star Trek first came out there was a lot of controversy over A: Women being on the ship and B: Multiple cultures on the ship, it's something we should welcome really.

I think developers should stand their ground, if a small portion of gamers don't like it then they can take on the nearest beholder with a bum plug.

[popculturedude]

I really think the biggest problem is with that small portion of the gaming community also being the most vocal. They are the ones you hear because they scream the loudest. It's become a playground mentality (or, you know, political mentality).

[cnshards]

We can't wait for the gaming community to "mature" enough to allow equal representation because without pressure, it's not going to change. We have always had to MAKE social change happen. It doesn't just happen on its own.

[Tired]

Hang on, so future titles who may have planned to include a gay character shouldn't.... JUST in case a young homosexual sees a comment written about it by a homophobe and takes that comment to heart?

WOW, I'd never thought about it before but your COMPLETELY right. I've never heard a bad word about 'the gays' in real life...so the tiny homo is bound to feel safe and nurtured now that s/he won't come into contact with meanies.

Next let's remove the Black characters because I've read on the interweb people say all kinds of nasty things about them.

And women, then we should cut out the women.

That will leave just muscular men on our screens who will flex their burly muscles at each other after shooting/wrestling/strangling other burly men.

Oh....seems a bit gay really.

[popculturedude]

Hawkboi, the gaming community is not society. We have a choice to be part of the community or not to be. We can agree that people say incredibly mean and small-minded things in real life AND in the gaming community. Unfortunately, the community is run by those people and they are not about to have their minds changed.

[Tired]

That's BULL. I've never heard such rubbish. Explain to me how I am not society. How is the gaming community is not society. How is a group made up of different ages, colours, religions, nationalities, sexes and socio-economic backgrounds not be society? It's probably the best cross-section you could get.

'We choose to be part...or not.' WHAT? What is the point your making? Gamers choose to live outside of society? Do we now have to ignore laws and not pay taxes? or I choose to be part of the gaming community so therefore the gaming community is not homophobic. I just don't know what you mean to say sorry.

'are not about to have their minds changed' OH REALLY? Well not by YOU obviously, If your the author of this piece you should probably lay on the floor and just invite bigots to jump on it.

Changing peoples minds is as easy as meeting them and engaging them on an emotional level. I've been doing it my whole life.

I will agree that as a gay man, seeing any of these pixelated pillocks prance about my screen makes me cringe....I hate it, I hate them, I hate the way it's written and I hate the way it's implemented. BUT IT'S NECESSARY on the way to change. As we battle for basic acceptance and in many places basic human rights or even the right to keep on living, having a presence in the gaming sphere at all is a massive accomplishment. It will take decades of rubbish gay characters before we get one we can be proud of. TOUGH! DEAL WITH IT! Just like black/gay people in films were all stereotypes, it will take time.

You call yourself popculturedude...HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND HOW POPULAR CULTURE WORKS? The sheer number of things the media and the like have drip fed us over the years until it became acceptable is unfathomable. How can you claim it'll never work? Not in our generation no...but the seeds have been set. How old are you? From your pic you look old enough to be capable of cognitive reasoning.

'Best not try'?
That statement alone made me feel FU*KING sick.
Those stonewall rioters...should've told them not to bother right?
All those campaigners people who were tortured/killed/ridiculed. Just so you wont be put in prison anymore for having sex.
Tell them thanks for all that but you know? best not to try.

You should be ashamed of yourself and your article.
And I hope, no impressionable young homo, ever takes YOUR advice.

[popculturedude]

Thank you for the personal attack and proving my point that the gaming community is not at a point where we can engage in a mature, objective discourse on this subject. That is the point I attempted (failed?) to get across in the article. I would love to live in a world where being gay is a complete non-issue, but I don't and the gaming community in particular is one place where being gay is downright vilified. As I said in the article, this is about picking our battles. I would rather see women given a modicum of respect in the gaming community and focus my efforts on larger issues in the gay community. Gay game characters fall so low on that list.

[aliengmr]

Gay characters in games may be a low priority but they should still exist. IMO the acceptance of the gay community is different than that of women or even other races. Not that one is more important that the other, but require different approaches. I would like to elaborate but I can't find the exact words at the moment and don't want to be misunderstood.

Suffice to say that I believe the gay community is unique (NOT more or less important, so we are clear) in how it will eventually become accepted. Gay characters games are important in that regard. It shouldn't be forced, but not shied away from regardless of it importance compared to other groups.

I don't agree that it should be set aside just to focus on other groups or because the gaming community is too immature. Its just going to take time.

[Dark_king]

I really don't see how it hurts anyone having gay characters in games.Games are a medium that should cover all cultures.If it offends you don't buy it.If someone says something about it that upsets you,ignore it.

The world is full of idiots letting them upset you over something like your sexual preference shows you haven't come to accept it yourself.I don't see one reason in this article to remove or not include gay characters.

Think what you want,say what you want and believe what you want.I will do the same.

Now saying gamer's are not mature enough to discuss this shows your general lack of knowledge about the gaming community.Were not all children in fact more of the gaming community are adults capable of rational discussion then children.An you just flat out said they are not capable of discussing this subject.I find that more offensive then a few people shooting there mouths off bashing gays.

[Tired]

Wow. If you thought that was a personal attack you must be one of the kids that needs to be sheltered from the internet like you said.

I attacked your article and your stance on most things, but at no point did I 'attack' you as a person. I have attacked your opinion because there is no sound logic or attempted reasoning behind it.

You claim you want objective discourse...yet you fail to remain objective citing that I attacked you. So your also unable to take the high road. At no point have you attempted to make a rebuttal to ANY of the points I raised or to clarify the points that you made previously. Which can only lead me to assume that A) Only YOU are incapable of finding flaw with my reasoning. or B) That I'm right.

Out of your article and TWO responses you've yet clarify what you meant by gamers being out of society. What you've stated repeatedly is nonsensical. The premise itself makes no sense. I'm thinking your not entirely sure of the difference between (or the roles of) society and community, and how they interplay.

Your opinions seem not to be based in fact...which is a little strange. You failed to make a counter argument to the FACT that TV and games can have a drastic impact on how people perceive characters yet to encountered in 'real life'. Soap operas have been doing it for decades. It's subversive social education for the stupid classes.

The Greeks invented Drama as a means of education, it was compulsory for each and every citizen to watch. Much of what they showed were social conundrums at the time, which forced the watcher to ask questions and make his/her own mind up. Much in the way the inclusion of these gay characters have done.

We have over 2260 years to back up the case I made. The FACT of it is taught in universities across the globe. What is it your basing YOUR argument for never changing peoples minds on? Because you've yet to justify your sweeping generalisation.

'I would rather see women given a modicum of respect in the gaming community'

You can do what you like. Go fight for womens lib. But then why post an article ASKING for other people not to champion a cause that affects you. Live and let live, but you told them to stop. That's why I feel the need to point out the stupidity of your statements.

Womens/Black rights have been fought over for the last hundred years and more and have only made significant leaps in the last few decades. The gay rights movement is pretty much in it's infancy. There has only been a gaming community for 20 or so years. These things take time and perseverance and sometimes repeated FAILURE before they start to work. To tell people not to bother is ludicrous.

HOW NAIVE ARE YOU?

Your total lack of history knowledge is startling. Your inability to comprehend how social change EVER came about in the first place is astounding. Your assumption that these things 'just are' and we should leave them like that is sodding moronic.

'I would rather... focus my efforts on larger issues in the gay community.'
Really? I'm dying to find out YOUR plans for improving life for the gays. how are YOU going to fight for my rights? Given from what I've seen of you so far....'best not to try'
Maybe leave it to people who know what they are doing.

[popculturedude]

....sigh.... I really thought this was a modest proposal.

Also, this would be a personal attack: Your total lack of history knowledge is startling. Your inability to comprehend how social change EVER came about in the first place is astounding. Your assumption that these things 'just are' and we should leave them like that is sodding moronic

And yeah, the fact that one of my best friends killed himself after being harassed online has me thinking some people need protection. I guess you would probably just be glad he's dead since he wasn't "fighting for your rights" but rather just trying to live in a world that hates him. Thanks, man. You really showed me how much the gay community cares about those who just want to survive.

[H4WKBOI]

Ok personal attacks aside...why have you still not replied to ANY of the points I made? Because you can't?

All you've done is try to twist the argument.

I have yet to see you make a solitary statement that backs up ANY of your argument. Point out I'm being mean to you as much as you like...but why can't you dispute anything I've said in regards to your statements?

Why do you keep putting your fingers in your ears and saying lala can't hear you! You know that just means I won. So come on, I'm waiting to hear what you have to say.

Your piece was NEVER about the need to protect the vulnerable. You barely mention it. You spend more time talking about women. So don't give me that. And quite frankly it's a completely different topic.

YOUR PIECE WAS ABOUT THE REMOVAL OF GAY CHARACTERS FROM VIDEO GAMES. I pointed out that your reasoning was flawed...you've yet to change my mind...I'm willing for you to wow me...but all you've done is say he attacked me!

Why don't you start from the beginning and put me straight....If you're capable.

'And yeah, the fact that one of my best friends killed himself after being harassed online has me thinking some people need protection.'

How does not kissing a digital representation protect anyone online? If you were that worried about it you wouldn't be talking about gay rights or women being treated fairly on the web or gay men in games. You would be talking about the removal of anonymity from the web, better grievance reporting...or proper parental supervision.

'I guess you would probably just be glad he's dead since he wasn't "fighting for your rights" but rather just trying to live in a world that hates him.'
I don't really care who wants to fight for my rights or not. But I trust your sad, lonely friend who appeared to have no-one (including you) to turn to...didn't spend his spare time trying to convince people who didn't hate him that they shouldn't bother. in fact perhaps if they'd all done it a few years earlier the world might be nicer and your 'friend' might still be with us.

'Thanks, man. You really showed me how much the gay community cares about those who just want to survive.'
That statement is inflammatory and completely without basis. A last ditch attempt to twist a knife. Water off a ducks back.

I will happily concede if you beat me with reasoning. People do it to me all the time. You have failed on every level to do so. Kinda making your entire article invalid.

[a08andan]

If I can go gay in a videogame, I ALWAYS do. It adds something different to a videogame. Its not like the normal scenario where a helpless girl falls in love with a guy that happens to be the saviour of the universe.

[WeskerChildReborned]

Not trying to sound ignorant but if i had to play as a gay protagonist, i wouldn't wanna really play cause it's not my thing like i don't hate gay people but like i said, it's not my style. I don't mind if their are gay people in the games though. I would at least want a game to give you the chance to choose whether you straight or gay, like Skyrim, you could marry a guy i think but i wouldn't cause it's not my thing

[StarFox]

So your gay then?

[MySwordIsHeavenly]

Why isn't bestiality represented in games? Final Fantasy XII, maybe...

[NovusTerminus]

Or Necrophilia! They need to cater to everyone! Best not offend the Beasties or the Necro's!

[Lord_Sloth]

I likes me sum chicken...

[Tameel1]

You're seriously comparing beastiality and necrophilia to homosexuality? I can understand that there are people don't approve of homosexuality, but there's a very big difference between beastiality (which is the rape of animals who can't consent), necrophilia (which is the rape of dead bodies who obviously can't consent) and homosexuality (which is a relationship/sex between two consenting adults).

There's a very big gap between them. Nobody's going to be fighting for the rights of necrophiliacs or animal fuckers any time soon.

[Lord_Sloth]

^ It's a victim-less crime. XXXP

[NovusTerminus]

I can't believe you took either of our posts remotely serious... And wrote a paragraph counter for obvious sarcasm. But hey, here we stand, not believing.

[TENTONGUN]

well yall can say whatever you want to me for saying this, i could care less cause its my opinion and i have the right to it. being gay is a perversion, plain and simple. kinda similar to a child molester, or anything fkd up like that. perversion is just that. people are way too out in the open about their perversions now a days, i think that shit should stay in the closet tbh. i wouldnt want to see a old ass man kiss a 14 year old girl or any bullshit like that either. not in games and not anywhere. disagree all you want cause deep down everyone knows its wrong, even the homos

[Amplitude]

That's completely wrong. Being gay isn't perversion. Its a completely normal. Even animals have been found to have homosexual relations. Dog, elephant, fox, bison, giraffe, lions, chimpanzee, and a LOT more animals have had a significate amount of homosexual behaviour.

If you don't want to see two guys make out on the street, cool. But i have a feeling you feel uncomfortable watching a guy and a girl make out too. It's less uncomfortable, sure, but that's because you're used to it.

If you dont want to see an old man make out with a little girl, that's COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and a stupid, stupid, stupid thing that you said just to get agrees.

And if you're comparing homosexuals to child molesters... I dont even know what to say.

Just know that your ridiculous and immature hateful opinion is causing the suicides of thousands and thousands of children, teenagers, and grown men and women around the world each year. People that would still be alive if people like you didn't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
Nature. It's apparently perversion.

[3rdDimension]

And here is the biggest point to take away from this wiki info you provided

" Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species and the motivations for and implications of their behaviors have yet to be fully understood. Bagemihl's research shows that homosexual behavior, not necessarily sex, has been observed in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them."

No one knows why animals do it, but we know for sure within humans it is a sexual desire.

People alway refere to "animals do it" as some sort of assertion that it is okay for humans to do it. You except that, but shun any other barbaric things that animals do. I see how that works.

[iceman06]

@3rdDimension...see how this works. Humans ARE aniimals...We fall into that same Kingdom...according to taxonomy (the means by which science classifies its many discoveries). Therefore, scientifically, it is not understood why anything does it. Perhaps, saying as though it is found pervasively in nature, it could be...natural. As for the barbarism of animals...that also transfers to humans. Sure we assume, because we have been told, that our "higher" brains make us more capable of dealing with animalistic impulses. But, what if we are just saying this because we couldn't deal with the fact that there are higher thinking species? At any rate, calling homosexuality a perversion is about as crazy as not seeing how normal it appears in the animal kingdom.

[Lord_Sloth]

Murder is acceptable in the animal kingdom (damn near all of them). Cross species mating is acceptable in the anime kingdom (rabbits). Necrophilia is acceptable in the animal kingdom (penguins). Pissing on other people is normal in the animal kingdom (quite a few). Rape is acceptable in the animal kingdom (dogs).

Congratulations. You overlooked these normal actions in the animal kingdom to try and prove your point. Try a better argument next time that doesn't involve "well animals do it so it must be okay" or something equally as weak.

The animal kingdom is seriously f***** up, dude! I'm not on either side of this argument, but at least try better.

[Hanuman]

you're being a dick.. Homosexuality isn't a perversion. What can possibly be wrong about two grown men or womem loving each other?

[3rdDimension]

There is nothing wrong with loving one another, it's the sexual pleasure that one seeks from the same sex that is an issue. It's a simple fact of life that our human composition was not made for that at all. But again, we are living in a society that teaches one to do whatever the hell they please if it makes you happy.

This creates a cycle that youth grow up and views as ok. How in the hell do you explain the cycle of life to child using a gay couple as an example? In today's society you teach them that the rules of life do not matter because it prevents you from being happy and expressing yourself.

[Dark_king]

@3rdDimension wait so because they can't have children its wrong as simple as that.Strange thing though you might want to know.Your body has this thing called a prostate(I am gonna on a limb here thinking your a dude) and pressure and vibration cause a orgasm.You were made to be able to get pleasure from both sex's.Think about it you were created being able to get off that way.So how is one of the body's functions really considered that wrong.Because it was beat into you that its wrong.

[Fez]

@3rd Dimension
You're doing it wrong if you're trying to teach reproduction by using a gay couple...
"Well son, when two women really love each other, they scissor... and nothing much happens."

'It's a simple fact of life that our human composition was not made for that at all' - I assume you're talking about reproduction which means masturbation must be wrong too. And condoms? What's wrong with getting sexual pleasure by yourself or with another consenting adult without reproduction. Absolutely nothing is the answer.

[Tameel1]

Except there's a big difference between pedophilia (which involves the rape of a child who can't consent to sex) and homosexuality (which involves two consenting adults). And what exactly makes it perverse? The fact that it's two people of the same gender doing what every other straight person does? How is it any more perverse than some of the other things that appear in video games (like murder, thieving, prostitution, cheating, etc). And why are so many gamers determined to prove video games are "mature" and can handle adult material, but freak out as soon as homosexuality becomes a possibility in a game?

Personally I don't know why people get so upset over homosexuals of either gender. Let people be who they are, and treat everyone the way you want to be treated. That's what my parents always taught me. Even if there are people who live in ways I don't approve of, I'm not going to treat them any differently because of it.

We live in a world filled with horrible things like murder, child trafficking, slavery, starvation, poverty and terrorism. Homosexuals who just want to live their lives and be treated like every other citizen are pretty harmless by comparison.

[0pie]

only gay people think its ok... Normal people dont care or think its not.

[Amplitude]

Nah. I'm not gay. Lots of people, even here in the comments, are fighting these.. people. Doesn't mean we're gay. >.>

I know quite a few gay people, and one of them has gotten help with suicidal thoughts because of people who, for some reason, deem it necessary to stick their nose into other people's business despite the fact that it doesn't affect them in any way whatsoever.

[rmedtx]

"Normal people"?... what are gay people mutants?

[0pie]

well..
Im not homophobe.. i couldnt care less about homo.. they do what they have to do and i do my stuff. But to me its more normal to see a guy with a girl than a guy with a guy...
I dont get how a guy could love having some buttsex too...
So at the end... Yeah... they are not normal in the way they live.

[3rdDimension]

This whole gay and lesbian thing is really getting out of hand. I like to refere to Occum's Razor...

Imagine if all human beings on earth were wiped out except for just two people. Now answer me this, how would the human race start anew if there were only a man and a man or just a woman and a woman left on earth? No matter what anyone can say, the laws of life circumvent any answer we force ourselves to believe.

We live in a society were we want to do what ever the hell we please in the effort to please our desires. And we say to hell with the laws of life and creation.

Occum's Razor... the simplest answer is better than the complex one we tell ourselves to believe.

[00]

so life starts anew through inbreeding?

"How can one even breed when you have two of the same sex? Thats my point."

you do realize humanity would die either way right.

[3rdDimension]

How can one even breed when you have two of the same sex? Thats my point.

[Tameel1]

To be fair, that could apply to anyone. What happens if two people were left on earth and one of them was sterile? What happens if the two people left on earth had a vasectomy/tubal ligation? What happens if they just aren't interested in procreating? Straight couples with these problems are just as entitled to a relationship as straight couples who can (and do want) children. Children aren't the only reason people get into relationships and/or have sex.

[3rdDimension]

This is exactly what I am talking about. I proposed a simple question and rather than getting a simple answer, I get all sorts of variables thrown back. You've just made things complex.

And since you want to use your "fair" variables. The things you've mentioned are a 50/50 chance were as there is a definite NO answer when it comes to the same sex being able to create life.

[LightofDarkness]

@3rdDimension: No, you proposed a loaded question with an expected answer, which you think justifies your assumptions.

Things like this ARE complex, and being ignorant of that shows that you simply are not as intelligent and insightful as you seem to think you are. Tell me this: how does two men that you don't know falling in love and being together affect your life in any way? If this happens in a videogame, does that make you question your sexuality somehow? Because I fail to see why this is such a bothersome issue to you, other than it being pure, vapid and thinly veiled hatred.

Your question has nowt to do with what's being discussed, but you asked it anyway, because you just had to try and sneak that hate-filled little viewpoint of yours in. This hypothetical situation of yours is utterly moronic. Are you suggesting that because of this, we must eradicate "the gays" so that we may hypothetically be able to save the human race from extinction if that ever comes about? What IS your point? I see "Laws of Life and Creation" and all I can think of is yet another right-wing, Christian pseudo-intellectual trying to pass off their religious beliefs as science and "law."

[Fez]

The funny thing is in your example, if a straight man and a lesbian or vice versa were left they would most likely just go against their natural urges for the sake of humankind. I mean we see gay people going into heterosexual marriages just due to societal pressure never mind the almost total annihilation of the human race!
Plus it wouldn't matter what sexual orientation you're two survivors were, if you didn't have women you couldn't have children.
And the response from Tameel also raises some issues with infertility. Is it wrong to be old and want to get married because if two pensioners were left the human race couldn't reproduce?

This is the 21st century where sperm banks exists for couples who can't reproduce and we can use IVF treatment to help reproduction. We're not in some dire circumstance where the human race is on the brink... we're comfortably overpopulated and the funny thing is having more gay people would actually help what is becoming a major problem.

Such a stupid scenario anyway which has nothing to do with the issue.
And it's Occam's Razor, not cum...sexual repression?

[allyc4t]

I can't seem to get the link of this article to work.

Anyways, by reading the comments in this thread, it's clear to me that some people need to grow the fuck up. Comparing homosexuality to pedophilia? Are you that stupid? Really?

If a game developer thinks that adding a gay character to a game will enhance the gameplay experience, go for it. If they are doing it to expand their audience, then great. I have no issue with it whatsoever. I believe Mass Effect 3 was the first game I played that had an important homosexual character in it, and it didn't effect me one bit.

[SovereignSnaKe]

-Fuck this open letter.

[00]

life is to short to get all puffy about what other people do in there private time.

[Qrphe]

I remember back before I started frequenting gaming communities. I was expecting really open-minded individuals who would be as happy as I was to talk games we enjoyed.

I was so naive as a teen. There are bigots everywhere.

[Amplitude]

You clicked a homosexuality-related article. >.> That's a warzone topic no matter what the community is. ...which was actually exactly what the article was saying haha

[TheLyonKing]

How sad is the world that people can't accept gay themes. Some of my friends are gay I have no issue with them or what they do.

A massive % of the animal kingdom are gay. Developers that say these statements are really hurting the notion of accepting everyone. They may be saying it because they think they are doing a good thing but by telling others to avoid it they are just keeping people ignorant.

People who think being gay is morally wrong or bad for society are the ones making this planet worse to live on and not one person can give an argument for why being gay is wrong without adding religion in mix.

[popculturedude]

The entire purpose of the article was to drum up this kind of support! A modest proposal of sorts. The people defending gay characters SHOULD be the loudest voices in the community. That's what I'm trying to get across. The anger we feel over discrimination should drive us to drown out the vitriol of those who are "offended" by equality in gaming.

[TheDivine]

I just think developers shouldnt have to cater to everyone. Society has become so PC that everything is considered a personal choice and protected. Cant offend anyone. We have to teach the gay version of the 3 little bears and turn christmas into a secular holiday because jews and muslims get ofended that they cant celebrate Christs birth. Do you see where im going with this? Its wrong to FORCE your beliefs into something or onto someone. You can voice your opinion and if a dev chooses to cool, thats their choice i dont have to buy it.

Also gay people arent born gay. Thats the lamest excuse ever. Pretty soon people will argue that they cant be convicted of stealing or murder because they were born that way. COME ON. We are all born as a blank slate and choose what actions we will do in life. You get turned on by other dudes, okay. Maybe its cause its wrong, naughty, you have a small ****, cant get a woman idk. Point is you choose to do that and give in to whatever lust and perversion you have. I like women, alot. I dont bang every woman though because i have self control and know its wrong. Nowaday people change their ethics and morals to fit what they want instead of trying to live by whats right. You have it backwards. All we hear these days is its okay if you like it. If its pleasurable its fine. Dont judge anyone. Nazis? Yea i dont personally like them but we shouldnt judge them. Now i dont tink we should judge others but its readily appearant that Nazis are evil. Pure evil but people today are scared to offend anyone and think every view is beyond discussion. It makes no sense.

[Hicken]

Man, hearing the piss-poor excuses some people give for why being gay is wrong makes me ashamed to be straight.

Comparing an attraction to the same sex to pedophilia(which is already twisted out of what it should be, given that many people labeled as such are ephebophiles and are attracted to teenagers and not undeveloped children) or bestiality is so narrow-minded I can't even comprehend how such people can function. And using "the last two people in the world" argument is so stupid it hardly bears recognition.

Gay people are gay. It's not a choice, any more than a straight person CHOOSES to be straight. It's rarely a mental issue(there are some cases where this is true), and isn't something that can just be "cured."

Geez, it's amazing how the majority gets so afraid of their position in the world being toppled. So many men are still afraid of women being considered equals, and so many white people are still afraid of minorities.

Such mentalities really make me sad to be human, sometimes.