Battlefield 3 Update Controversy: 'We Don't Care About Individuals' - DICE

NowGamer: Battlefield 3 studio responds to criticism over the last BF3 patch saying it has to take all gamers into account.

[Hufandpuf]

I think people are mad because the recoil is too high for "them". They need to stop whining and learn how to aim, the patch is fine.

[BeaArthur]

Yeah I for the most part like the update. The guns feel more like they did in BC2 meaning more skilled players triumph in mid range shoot outs and that's fine with me.

[Gaming101]

Wow, could this quote have been taken any more out of context? The actual quote was "We don't care about single individuals, we care about pleasing everyone"
This is obviously the right approach when you see the big picture with all the data like they do, you see who is glitching and using which weapons to high advantage, if you listen to the vocal minority you're nuts, you need to do what is best for everyone.

[scrambles]

I LOOOOOOOOOOOVE the recoil increase. Now the CoD nubs lose and getting sprayed down from 2 blocks away is gone. The slow RoF guns have a purpose! The Famas is finally close range only! LMGs are no longer inaccurate assault rifles! Carbines are more of upgrade smgs rather than slightly nerfed ARs.

after the mini server side patch for tanks. Theyre finally ok again but still reactive armor and smoke are necessary 24/7. I still think suppression is out of whack tho.

Im extremely happy as well.

[Statix]

Actually, most of the Carbines got BUFFED after the last patch. Not to mention, with the Heavy Barrel now increasing range and damage (extra bonus on carbines), many of the carbines are more powerful and effective than before.

Funny that you mention "recoil has been increased" when it's not true. The Flash Suppressor attachment actually acts as a recoil compensator now. So, overall, the weapons actually have LESS recoil in general. I know this firsthand, as I use the SCAR-H a lot, and it used to kick like a mule; with the new Flash Suppressor, the recoil is significantly lessened.

Did you even read the patch notes?

Source: http://battlelog.battlefiel...

[Cosmit]

Actually no. The recoil hasn't been increased. Like Statix said. The Flash Suppressor really tones down the recoil on some weapons.

The only thing I have an issue with are the stupid Mass/Dart users. And a small issue I have is the Suppression Effect. They should tone it down about 10-25%. I think that would be the sweet spot for it. Its a bit exaggerated now in my opinion.

[SixZeroFour]

forget the recoil (which i barely noticed) or the rebalancing of weapons (famas)...my gripe, which im somewhat amazed more ppl arent talking about, is how the m26 dart is basically bf3's version of CoDs throwing knife

[FlashXIII]

Haven't played BF in a while so came on ready to roll my eyes thinking EA have gone and fucked up another great franchise however increased recoil? FUCK YEAH!! This is why it was love at first play for me and the battlefield series.

[sovietsoldier]

i disagree, yes there is more recoil but there is more to the guns then just recoil which anyone with skill and experience can easily over come. spread,reload, ads and hip all play into how a gun feels and reacts, if any of these are far off then it wont feel and play right then player will voice their concerns.

i dislike the patch but it has nothing to do with recoil.

[ThatHappyGamer]

you mad ?

[SpaceFox]

The recoil isn't the problem, it's the new vehicle balance. Tanks were perfectly balanced before the patch but now they're so vulnerable to Javelins (which everybody now uses) that you can't drive for 2 minutes without getting blown up out of nowhere.

"Use smoke" everybody says, but why should I have to? Why should I lose my freedom of choice just because DICE can't balance their game properly?

[torchic]

how were tanks perfectly balanced when people could push up right into your spawn with a tank and get 20+ kills without death? they're sooo much better now!

[SilentNegotiator]

They were balanced? lol, riiiiiiight.

The vehicles were short of immortal with a single person repairing from the back. It's 'realistic' that tanks not be very destructible by strikes from the front, sure, but not good gameplay balance. I support ANY nerfing of vehicles in BF3.

But then, I haven't gotten to try the latest BF3 build myself. I just hope they gave more recoil to the higher up weapons, in which automatic weapons worked like sniper rifles. I've never liked how higher level players got INSANE weapons like that; it makes trying to use classes that you haven't used much yet impossible to level up.

[violents]

"Why should I lose my freedom of choice just because DICE can't balance their game properly?"

You still have a choice, one's just gonna get you killed faster.

[KontryBoy706]

I agree with hufandpuf 100%. They really nerfed the Hell outta the famas lol. Everything is fine and now that people need to have more skill, gunfight turnouts are more accurate. No more getting sprayed down from medium to long range

[Statix]

I was a HUGE fan of the Famas before the patch. I used the gun a lot. After the patch, it got a HUGE downgrade, and is now very hard to use, with extreme recoil.

After they nerfed my Famas, I didn't whine or get pissy and moany about it. I adapted; I started using other guns more, and I still enjoy using the Famas because it takes more skill to use and kill with now. I'm not complaining that DICE nerfed "my favorite gun" like so many people do, because I totally understood that the Famas was considered an OP weapon by most people.

People who get upset when something they like gets nerfed or balanced need to learn to adapt, and stop whining. The vast majority of the time, when something is nerfed, it's for the greater good of the game and the community, promoting better weapon and gameplay balance.

[eak3]

Agree Famas is still effective up close and set to single shot. I think it could be very useful in the new expansion.

[mugoldeneagle03]

Is that they literally edited almost every single gun, and for someone who's put ton's of hours in from the start to adapt to change on such a large scale, it really takes you out of the game.

Add on these stupid "unlock all" DLC items and what do all those hours spent amount to? Nothing.

It's the reason why I went from playing 4-5 hours a day to once a week if that...So no, it's not just the "Call of Duty scrubs" who are complaining...

[SixZeroFour]

well, i disagree with your "unlock all" issue...all that time you spent got you free unlocks while those that choose to "unlock all" have to spend more money and it isnt a small amount of money either

[Fylus]

The amount of money it costs to unlock everything isn't a big deal. Any child could go mow one person's lawn for 45 minutes and get $20 to spend unlocking stuff... What's fair, spending 100-200 hours of your life to unlock these things, or spending maybe half an hour to unlock these exact same things? The "Unlock All" DLC was a horrible mistake on EA's part which only proves they are as greedy as everyone says.

I assume you disagree because you are one of those people who fell for this, and you want to justify your purchase by siding with EA on the matter. Whether my speculation is right or wrong, it's still incredibly greedy of EA to allow such DLC.

[SixZeroFour]

whether you believe me or not, i dont click the agree or disagree buttons, i voice my opinion since i have the bubbles to do so, secondly, i havent even purchased the unlocks, although i do have the msp to do it, im not one to spoil my own fun with a game i purchased, HOWEVER, if someone wants to waste even more money to unlock something that theyll most likely eventually get anyways then thats their perogative, who am i to tell them what they can or cant do with their or someones elses money

i will agree with you tho on the fact that this IS just another way EA or dice is monetizing on their product but thats the case with the majority of dlc out nowadays

no one is forcing you to buy it, and no one is taking away the enjoyment and pride you prolly had and felt when you were going through the trouble to unlock the weapons

[HeavenlySnipes]

Uh maybe its so that new players wouldn't be raped by veteran players who leveled up and got all the 'good' weapons. Games with a lot of weapons need that sort of thing to balance out the older players with the new ones.

Just a thought

[mugoldeneagle03]

Any response whether I agree or disagree shouldnt be disputed. And I completely agree that having the option to buy something isn't a slight at all. If a person is new and has money to burn then by all means go for it.

The problem I have is all that time I, a day 1 owner, and someone who has put in a pretty large chunk of time into the game, is pretty much wasted and amounts to nothing if I'm literally on an even playing field with an enemy who's had the game 2 days.

You see by that point it has less to do with skill (which I have) and more to do with unlocks, which is complete bullshit.

The patch in full was fucking amazing. I've been a long time FPS/TPS shooter fan (Love SOCOM..) and DICE has show some amazing dedication. I just didn't like the patch + this DLC.

Does it ruin the game? No. But it does justify the 2:30 AM post about me bitching about it. And complaining about how I WANT to play the game, not the game itself.

Sadly that'll be the way it goes till the new DLC, which hopefully will get me back into the grind.

[violents]

I totally agree with the "unlock all" BS. Those unlocks and upgrades are supposed to come with experience and excellence. Where is your sportsmanship? Those arent acheivements if you just throw more money at it! You should wear your acomplishments like a badge of honor. What have you got to hold up to show your skill and dedication.

Oh a virtual reciept, huh?

[SixZeroFour]

but thats the thing...just cause you have the unlocks DOES NOT mean you would be any better using them than someone who put the time and effort with each gun

[Mikeyy]

I find it funny that all the people that love the recoil "increase" are all Assualt rifle users. You guys got buffed.

LMG's got nerfed into trash. Thats why some of us are upset. Pull out the M249 and tell me that's not broken...

[megacowdung]

Hey a I agree with you completely about recoil except for Suppression and the recoil on a few of the LMG's. The PKP and M60E4 have a lot more recoil than they should in my opinion.

[Nitrowolf2]

'We Don't Care About Individuals'
Reads story
"we don’t care about single individuals, we care about everyone."
Slight misquote/misleading on the title don't you think?
Making it sound like they are the bad guys for discussing their patch process and how they don't focus on just one issue based on a small group, when they are taking the whole community into account.

[TimmyShire]

Hard to fit all of that into a headline, I guess, but that's internet games journalism for you.

[Hicken]

But wouldn't it have been more accurate to start with the second half of that quote? Maybe it's because I wouldn't be after hits, but I would have used the quote that got the more important message across.

[jimmins]

Wow, you mean I've actually got to click through for the whole story?

[Nitrowolf2]

That's the issue with journalism. The fact that you guys were the ones who conducted the interview knew fully well what they meant. Way to try and twisted the words with such a title.

Obvious hit seeker is obvious.

[TekoIie]

Maybe we should talk to gaming journalists how angry Gamers talk to Robert bowling!!!! That'll teach them not to go using us for hits :3

[ddurand1]

yall missed the sarcasm there i think.

[Elwenil]

Isn't "single individuals" a bit redundant? Individuals means just that, individuals. The meaning is the same though I admit most people will probably take the spin.

[Feckles]

The big picture's what's important and DICE is right to focus on that.

Prediction: Battlefield to beat Call of Duty is sales early on in next gen.

[jjb1981]

Yes, bf4 on next gen will be awesome!

[Prince_Dim-Lu]

LMAO.. thanks for that joke.

[TekoIie]

prediction: Call of duty to beat Battlefield in sales early on next gen.

See what i did there? i swap them round to get a reaction out of people and i bet mine will be the opposite to yours.

[BALLARD32]

At least you're being realistic. Unfortunately, BF can't compete with CoD's sales. That's probably for the best too because we don't want DICE/EA getting lazy and making less quality games.

[jjb1981]

The only people I hear complaining are the ex-famas wh*res...

[WiIIiam]

DICE may claim to not care about individuals but they sure love to rent servers out to individuals who can create their own imbalanced games featuring ass-backwards rules.

While we're on the topic, DICE's overlords at EA certainly do care about individuals, which is why they emailed me a questionnaire asking why I don't play BF3 anymore. I replied that I wouldn't play again nor would I buy any more EA shooters until they start treating their customers with respect.

[Hufandpuf]

do you realize dedicated servers cost money? And that BF2 had the same thing?

[WiIIiam]

I really don't care either way. I'm sure BF2 didn't have paid unlocks though, which is a worse offense if you ask me. Too many things about this game and many of EA's recent titles feel blatantly commercialized.

[Hufandpuf]

I have no problem with someone paying money for guns. If they don't have too much time on their hands to play for 100+ hours to unlock everything, they should be welcome to buy access to them.

Paid unlocks don't make a player good either. My 200+ hours of experience wins over them anytime.

[WiIIiam]

I could argue all day over whether you should need hundreds of spare hours to unlock everything or if you should have to pay to get them instead, but that's neither here nor there. The point of my initial comment is that DICE is talking out of its collective ass when it says it doesn't care about individuals, and I don't think that can really be disputed.

[pwnmaster3000]

I play all the time and not once have under the imbalance your talking about.
Also I love the rules, like only snipers or pistol etc

[ian72]

Some private servers are ok, but I have been in a lot of games where I've been playing with friends in a squad and one of us have been killed and put on the other team. When it happened to me I tried going back to my squad and got kicked.
I once had a great score (MVP at time) then got killed and placed on other team only for my score to be reset to 0 points.
Also getting kicked from games for nothing.
I now try to play on servers I have in the HISTORY list in server browser, that I know don't do this stupid unfair side swapping etc.
And no-one seems to play EA servers anymore, they are always empty.

[MrMister]

Sound like your mad. Bro.

[arnyftw]

Yeah the private servers are a pain in the ass, in quick match they should have the option of Dice servers only, I only come on to play a max 30 min match, and then I get into 1250 tickets servers which never end and I will never finish.

[Holeran]

Let me know when they fix the PS3 input lag and I'll go and pick up another copy. I got rid of my first copy 2 months ago.

[Cosmit]

The input Lag is virtually gone already. It's been gone since the last huge patch. When you pick it up again, go to Options and under Video settings turn off Anti Aliasing. Really smooths it out.

[Holeran]

Unfortunatly The Anti Aliasing fix has been exposed as a placebo by hundreds of videos testing the difference and noting nothing more than a 20 millisecond drop at best. I knew it as soon as the patch came out because I loaded my game back on my PS3 and played it with AA off and felt the exact same amount of lag, nothing changed. Only to find out people were already loading videos on you-tube that showed disabling AA did little more than increase the jaggies.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[BlackKnight]

A 30 FPS game can only get 100MS response time (60FPS game can get a 66MS response time). Let's say BF3 controller lag is similar to Killzone 3 (usually around 116MS, higher in complex scenes)

That means a 20MS drop would bring it back down to 100MS (the fastest it can be at 30FPS). Or, let's say the lag is similar to the awful Killzone 2 lag of 150 average or higher in complex scenes. A 20MS drop would mean a 40% improvement. 20MS may seem like a small amount, but in terms of response time in a shooter, it is CRITICAL and gamers who have the reflexes to notice it will appreciate it.

Souce:
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
http://www.eurogamer.net/vi...

[Mr-Zex]

Unbelievable DICE is I swear, it's been more then 6 months and still, not a fix for INPUT LAG on PS3 which we've all been complaining about!

They just make up excuses, it's our TV, it's our Controller and then they release this Anti-Aliasing fix, doesn't do a damn thing.. Get your crap together already DICE!

[Cosmit]

Turning off Anti Aliasing worked for me. Sucks that it't not a fix for everyone who is still suffering from the horrible input lag it had/has.

[MrMister]

I put a thread in the BF3 forums about this. When I first had the new patch, it did not fix my horrible input lag even when I turned off anti-aliasing. So I got mad and was determined to sell the game since I waited 6 months for this fix and thought it didnt work.

Some friends said it worked for them. But it didnt for me. My latency was horrendous in MP, campaign, and co-op.

So when I was gonna sell it, I uninstalled the game from the PS3--game data, patch & dlc all deleted (but not game progress which i'd forgot to delete--thank God!).

Then I played the Ghost Recon beta hoping that it will convince me to use the money from selling bf3 (which I had not done yet) to pay for GR:FS when it comes out. I hated the Ghost Recon Beta with a passion (my personal opinion) and desperately re-installed BF3 to give it one more chance (since over 40 of my psn friends own it too and play alot).

Now, after re-installing the patch again, getting dlc again, and re-installing game data off of disc--I started a match again feeling angry that I'd even returned to the game. The anti-aliasing was turned off again, and as I played I IMMEDIATELY noticed that my input was 100% 1:1 accurate! My girlfriend played it too and said so too--she was like wow, it finally isnt a struggle to play--it's like the BF3 beta again. It remains that way to this day. That was about 5-6 days ago. I play alot better too.

I went on forums to tell people this and some of them didnt believe; being too cynical to even give it a try. But some tried it and reported back to me that it worked for them too. No placebo--it's 1 to 1 like the BF3 beta.

See, DICE told us to reinstall B2K because it would fix "some issues with the weapon animations". I didnt know what that meant, but when I did that, it didnt fix the problem alone. I had to uninstall the game, get patch again and B2K again so that the patches hooks would fix the input lag once and for all. Some people didnt need to do it before, but others need to do it.

Give it a try, and let us know if it works. Dont say it wont, without trying it for real. It just might help since it helped me out. I have ZERO latency now. Just remember to redownload your online pass again (for free) from the in-game store (it will say "re-download pass" or something like that), and it will redownload it again since u already own the pass.

Let me know if it helped. Dont lie and say it didnt it you genuinely didnt even bother to try. DICE really did fix it, and now I feel bad about all the negative stuff i've said about them post-patch.

[Mr-Zex]

I wouldn't mind trying that, but at the same time I'd like a bit of proof from you if your willing.

Would you be willing to upload a video of you testing your input latency on youtube and link it to me so I could see, if you don't mind.

[Dazel]

While I don't mind the patch the rent a (once was a free server you stupid idiots) server bull plop has completely ruined the, once, best fps out there. They need to put on more Dice servers, like the ones I actually paid my 40 pound to play on.

Don't care about the individual but we care about the $$$$$$$$$

[Majin-vegeta]

*They need to put on more Dice servers, like the ones I actually paid my 40 pound to play on. *

Wow really you mean can't take the time to do this to find Dice servers??

http://youtu.be/qNeFDGo5iPg

[Dazel]

Well the last time I looked every 12yr old kid was calling their server the Dice server blah blah. I will try again and see what's what, however they should just let you select rented or Dice the same way you select Rush or hardcore. Would save so much trouble!

[glennco]

there are no DICE rush servers in australia anymore. nor conquest for that matter... just BF3 classics or something which has rush, conquest and TDM rotating. if i search i get US servers and laaaaaaaag

and there are barely any normal rush games available from others. we have been screwed by this server crap.

they need more DICE servers.

[Dazel]

Spent ages trying to find a Dice Rush server, none there. I take it back, Dice/EA have ruined BF3 just to make a fast buck. Gets traded tomorrow...

[OcelotRigz]

"We get a lot of praise for it but the biggest problem is that the people that like it don’t go on forums and write about it, they just keep playing," Bach added

Then how do they get a lot of praise for it?

Personally i dont mind the latest patch, the M26 Dart is creeping into the small maps and suppression's maybe a bit extreme but ive adapted and im really enjoying the game. But i dont like how DICE treats its fans and at the end of the day, consumers. They barely address concerns personally except for the usually pr crap "We're looking into it", the updates are too few and far between. They also have this attitude of 'we're right, you're wrong' towards criticism and even remark on their great sales as evidence and a sign of quality, quantity does not translate into quality!!

Plus, im surprised that PC guys are very quite with them because out of all systems, they treat the pc guys the worse, hell they haven't even brought out a mod kit yet.

[glennco]

"They barely address concerns personally except for the usually pr crap "We're looking into it"
what do you want a personal signed contract that they will be working on your particular issue and guarantee it will be fixed by tomorrow?

they get constant praise through twitter. they are saying people who are happy don't go to the issues section of the forums... i wonder why?

this article is aimed directly at you

[OcelotRigz]

At me?, cool. I didnt think i was that important but hey, i wont complain.

I like the game, i just dont like how Dice communicate with fans. Extrapolate on that all you want.

[Tonester925]

Thank you DICE for saying this! I'm going to show my little brother this so he could stop his complaining. lol

[TekoIie]

*hears gunshot. Runs outside to calm the masses and assure them its just EA shooting themselves in the foot again*

[SneeringImperialist]

Nice avatar man.

[Rupee]

I'm fine with the buffs/nerfs... Just hate that quickplay throws you into rented servers. I don't always have the time to play a 500 ticket game...

[fragnificent]

tut tut tut,
Misleading title fishing for views.
not cool, but hey, what's new

[ddurand1]

my only complaint is the poor server browser and the change to the playlists.

im glad i found a custom server that is 24/7 hardcre rush. but if the clan falls apart im serverless unless i find another.

[Bakkies]

They did a fine job with the patch, but hell, they also broke some things as well. Such as:
RPK has an extended mag, which it should not have!
M36 for some reason has a heavy barrel?
Famas is the most unused rifle in the game now.
Heli flares works randomly.
M26 Dart Glitch.

btw. On the PC, why must I add everyone in a pub match to my friends list before I can voice chat with them?

[moblaq]

The one problem with this game isn't the guns, its the return to battlefield screen when your trying to fight a enemy that's outside your area. And all the bad luck ways of dying when you don't even know what killed you, just "bad luck".

[moblaq]

And the knifing works half of the time.

[Tru_Blu]

I liked the game better before the patch but I still play it. One thing they need to fix is the suppression, it's a bit over the top now. That and of course the dart glitch.

[Soldierone]

I don't mind the recoil, I came from Killzone. However there is some other things that built up to a point of me putting the game down and not playing it lately. Helicopters are weak as hell now, and jet scrubs seem to dominate all the time. Personally rather deal with Heli scrubs than jet scrubs because I'm capable of shooting them down from the ground.

Then tanks, for some odd reason are rolling death traps. I shot a guy directly with a missile and get a hit marker? Wth?

i put the game down and have been taking a break from it. I'm sure I will go back when the DLC releases, but until then I'm looking for something else.

[ChocalateDog203]

I honestly love the patch, I used to only see the M249, Famas, and of course USAS (frag rounds -_-) in the kill feed, now people are using all different types of weapons and it works out for everybody. Games are dominated based on skill now, not what guns you have.

[mrkeith]

I didn't mind the update at all. As long as im back shooting people im fine

[CarnageXB]

I don't mind the gun patches but what really put me off was the rent-a-server addition. Before the patch I always made a squad and added my brother (we always play together on b3), and press quick match and everything would be alright. Now when I do it we get put into a private server and either get kicked or banned. Now we have to search for a dice server and filter out the other ones and it's hard to get in a decent game together now with the que. most of the time it cancels itself out for my brother and we don't get to play together.

We are casual players. We go play to have fun. No compete. This patch really has messed that up. We use to play everyday. Now we rarely play it. Dice needs a "quick match" option just for dice servers.

[supersonicjerry]

What they need to do on console is take off aim assist and I will be happy.

[MrMister]

The aim assist is virtually non existent after the current patch. It's an option, but doesnt work either way. It only works in cco-op and campaign (which DICE forgot about in this patch and it doesnt apply to those modes).

[supersonicjerry]

I noticed my self I don't play with aim assist I don't like it. Last time I played I put aim assist on and noticed a huge difference with it on. Trust me it effects the multiplayer.

[glennco]

journalism at its finest

[warhawkbeast559]

Last time i checked on the update for the PS3 is that it freezes. is that still going on or did it get fixed? I'm asking because i still haven't downloaded the update yet and i want to play some battlefield 3 but not if its freezing consoles up.

[Majin-vegeta]

I play on PS3 and since the patch i haven't had a system freeze.

Off topic are you from the 559 area also??

[warhawkbeast559]

Yea i was born in Fresno, and really no freezing? when i saw the update i went on the internet and people were saying that their consoles were freezing up. So i never downloaded it. thanks for the feedback

[molsen81]

You can't please everyone. I'm just glad that I can finally hit targets when I'm flying a jet although there's still issues with the F35.

[theeg]

dice has yet to let me down, every pc game they have ever made has been awesome

bf1942
bf road to rome
bf secret weapons of ww2
bf vietnam
bf2
bf 2 special forces
bf2 armoured fury
bf2 euro forces
bf2142
bf2142 northern strike
bf heroes (the weakest game)
bfbc2 (the second weakest game)
bf3

mirrors edge was decent game as well

the few console versions they ported/hacked down are pretty lousy from what i've seen and don't even come close to bf2 in scope or graphics, let alone 2142 or bf3!

[BossPerson]

way to misquote him

[AllroundGamer]

lol developer is defending their lack of skills to fix bugs :D a new low in the gaming industry and some people are even eating that all up... i personally uninstalled the game already since the fixes won't be any better soon to fix the game to the original state, so just like many veteran BF players i like to say - go fck you DICE and no next buy game from me and from many others :) close your studio if you can't even do patches right...

[softgrip]

It's all good except for the dart, and the suppression.

[chobit_A5HL3Y]

it is not "all good".

[csreynolds]

Misleading headline much, NowGamer? Tools.

[eak3]

Total shitty headline on a crap site taking things out of context for hits.

My only beef with the game is the unlock packages. In my experience everyone is flying a damn helicoptor or jet now and you cant drive a tank anywhere as your lit up from above lightning fast.

[pojut]

Misleading headline is misleading. Here is the actual quote from the story:

"Because we don’t care about single individuals, we care about everyone."