All bark, no bite: Naughty Dog need to fix their own storytelling

BeefJack: "Naughty Dog say they want to change the games industry’s attitudes to storytelling with their new project THE LAST OF US, but Matthew Lee thinks they should try fixing their own writing first."

[Whitefeather]

More BS about a well known good developer from another unknown website

[BldyShdw]

Is it me or are we drowning in negativity lately? It seems like every other article is bashing a game or a game company. We used to like games.

[scotchmouth]

It's not just you. It's the clear winning formula to get hits. Say something outrageous and you get heat and replies which is what they are going for.

[tarbis]

Negativity at Sony in general. Haven't seen a single negative article about M$ or never since there's nothing to report. XD

[GSpartan777]

Unfortunately, it's the only way to guarantee hits and N4G has basically become that: a warzone for these second rate sites who battle for hits and they know that they can only do that by nit-picking or calling well perceived games terrible and defending themselves with "It's just my opinion bro"

[scofios]

@tarbis

That is because n4g is a M$ heaven.
your not allowed to say or to post anything negative about M$.

Proof.check my post later on .

[BrutallyBlunt]

Negativity attracts headlines and N4G is proof of that. Just imagine the hits on this site if the headline wrote Kinect is a failure, Microsoft stops making them. I'm sure that is what the major portion of this community wants to read or the Playstation 3 has finally surpassed XBOX 360 total hardware sales.

It is the members who create this situation. This site is full of drama and the largest portion of members are Sony fans.

@ tarbis and scofios, there is negativity about M$. Just look at your guy's history comments. It is members like you who make this an issue instead of ignoring it. It's the Sony fans on this site who are overly defensive about everything.

The forums on N4G are an embarrassment to all Playstation 3 owners such as myself. Most of us don't act that way. Most of us don't care about this console war going on with the XBOX 360 like you guys do. Most of us actually enjoy our Playstation 3's without the need to tell everyone how much better the system is. Most of us can also enjoy other systems like the XBOX 360 and Wii without resorting to being immature about it or bashing the competition. In fact most of us Playstation 3 owners don't even post on game forums, especially this one.

One days you guys will grow up and realize gaming is universal and should be enjoyed by everyone. Not trying to separate themselves because they pick one of the systems.

Anybody who disagrees with me without actually stating why are the very people I am talking about.

[MsclMexican]

Dude I used to come to N4G for news.... now I hate coming here because of all this negativity I keep seeing. It really blows

[tiffac008]

@LevelHead

I checked your comments as well and it seems you've mainly to singled out Sony fans as a problem in N4G but at the same time disregarding the trolls/haters who post anti-sony comments even if the article is a positive one.

It seems like we have a double standard issue here and that's why I can't take your righteous comments seriously.

If you really are an anti-fanboy, you may want to stop singling out just one fanbase because there are plenty of them also on the other side of the fence.

[scofios]

@LevelHead

I already caught a fly .
I love it when some fanboy accuse somebody else.
en pretend to be a angel.
guess wath?
Your no different dude.
And you history shows it.
hypocrite

@tiffac008.
Well said .

[tarbis]

@scofios
I can attest to that.
Imagine, I was banned just for bubbling up a comment against M$ which has SOME TRUTH IN IT!

[Horny]

I too thought it was just flamebait at first. But the author does make some good points. I can tell he enjoyed the story of the first two but the third introduced new characters without explaining them or just kind of dropping them in the next chapter.
Uncharted 3 honestly doesn't focus as much on the story and is more so built around the set pieces.

With that said I am not worried about the last of us. It's a different type of game and yes naughty are capable of writing a good story, they just didn't focus on that part in uncharted 3. The story in U3 was built around the set pieces.

[RedDead]

Uncharted's stories are always very average...when talking about pacing it's the gameplay and set piece's pacing that is exceptional. ND have not been trying for some amazing story, they just give a general safe storyline, some comedy and an excuse to let the player kill someone over something. I did feel Uncharted 3's "dark" aspects were a bit stupid, constantly saying stuff like "you could get hurt, why are you doing this etc" Drake has killed hundreds of people over 'treasure'. There are no ****ing morals in the game or a dark side to it, trying to bring some in was a bad idea imo. Disagree away though

As for The last of us, I think, if ND actually want to do a dark story, they can easily, there games are nothing but brilliant, if they do focus on Storytelling there is no doubt they can nail it. As you said, it's different than Uncharted. It's not looking to put us on a boat with some mad filler side plot to the story, simply because they want to put us in a sinking boat(was amazing btw).

[extermin8or]

I love the uncharted games seriously they are some of my favorite games and I love uncharted 3 it's brilliant fun to play however I agree with alot of what that guy says; Uncharted 3 did feel as I was playing it abit disjointed and almost rushed? (storyline wise) yes there were soo many epic set pieces and the story was still better than many games but it just felt like they were jumping around the world without ever really explaining anything fully- like certain revelations from marlowe that aren't mentioned again; I had to play the game twice to catch on too wtf the ending witht elana was actually about- talk about criptic and the very end felt like a cop out; I could tel they didn't do monster to make it stand out slightly from the previous 2 games but the tainted water thing was abit meh and the final boss was entertaining but didn't really make sense and marlowes death was just a way to eliminate her that didn't involve drake battering an unarmed; thin old women who didn't look capable of defending hereself. The previous uncharted's had better stories but remember this is made my the same people as the previous uncharted much of uncharted 3s more senior developers were newish to the roles from what I understand :p

[BrutallyBlunt]

@ Horny. It is flamebait material as long as the community continues to react instead of discuss. See how defensive some of the members get without actually talking about the article itself? The Uncharted games are amazing but the story does have holes in it. The writing isn't the greatest. It's like comparing Michael Bay movies to the Oscars.

People need to support constructive criticism more and not react. Those who simply react are fanboys and we don't need them.

The Last Of Us looks interesting. We all know how well Naughty Dog is at creating a exciting game but we don't know how good they are at creating good storylines and that is what the article is trying to address. Do any of us work for Naughty Dog here? Then stop acting like it.

[Horny]

Levelhead. I loved that you used the Michael bay reference because I was going to do the same.
And you are right. It's sad that we can't properly discuss games we like even if it is issues with them without guys reacting to discussions like they do.
Many of us who try and have a decent conversation about games get bubbled down to the point were we can't speak until we satisfy one fanboy side.
Thanks guys for having the balls to say something one of your favorite games lacks.

[miyamoto]

U3 was built first with levels in mind not story. As we can see at the Bonus Videos of the game. The story telling was tailor fitted to complement the levels planned before hand. So this literally tells us that ND was concerned about technical stuff & game play first before the story. And they tried to cram so many stuff on the game.

U3>U2
technical mastery of PS3
specially the fully procedural ocean, sand & fire effects
varied levels and set pieces
better graphics
best character models on SP specially younger Sully and Chloe
best MP

U2>U3
why U2 story telling is very good is because of
story premise of love triangles tickles,
young, fresh & vibrant characters
Harry Flynn > Charlie Cutter
very witty yet funny dialogue
very well fleshed out character development
great ending sequences

all positive stuff if you ask me.
and its just a game.

[MaxXAttaxX]

It's just made a bigger deal when talking about Uncharted for some reason.

[MizTv]

nd are one of the best devs in the world and yes this is bs. my fav game from them has to be uc2 i just love that game!!

[Neko_Mega]

Last I check this their storys have been better than Tomb Rider (Or whatever its called).

Some people can't deal with the fact that ND makes good games with good stores.

[Why o why]

goty contenders are never perfect. Yes improvements can always be made but making an article based on the writers opinion on uncharted's story is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[LewisDenby]

You do understand the concept of an opinion piece, right? And how almost every known publication, from national papers to specialist magazines, runs them on a frequent basis?

[Christopher]

I don't get your response. I can see you disagreeing with him, but you instead say that people write OpEds and that it is normal. But, he didn't say it was wrong to write an OpEd, he said that the choice in OpEd was a poor choice.

[Why o why]

Sorry lewis and cheers cgoodno

Its one of the better stories told through an action game this gen... Maybe the writer should concentrate on action games in general because there are a load and many of them arent even up to uncharteds standard. Action based films and games rarely tell a great plot hole free story. I would like to see the writers opinion on more of this gens ones... Why just uncharted. Why not bayonetta or gears 3 or vanquish.. Why is 1 action game up for such scrutiny.

If the writer wrote an article about the plot holes in a game like heavy rain then i wouldnt of made my first comment or complained because that game was all about emotion and the story so i feel it would deserve a higher level of scrutiny.. I really enjoyed heavy rain btw but some of that story mad zero sense plus it had a few mega plot holes. Im currently playing it again and its just as enjoyable.

I also agree with a few here that u2s story seemed better but each of the 3 had good and not so good parts about their story. ...all bark no bite.....really, nobodys above contructive critism but isnt that title a little sensational. Why worry about the last of us when the writer states he enjoyed the story of the first two games so 2 of 3 isnt exactly grounds for concern imo....lets just wait and see. Im sure naughty dog will take the criticism on board. Everything will be fresh for their next game so it should be easier to tell a story as theres no back story or previous game in the series for people to make links to

[HarryMasonHerpderp]

The story was abit of a mess to be honest.
I thought uncharted 2 had a much better story.
Still love the game though and there are some realy
cool moments in uncharted 3 plus i think the multiplayer
kicks ass.

[koehler83]

Anyone who honestly believes Uncharted 3 had a good story has no idea what a good story really is. They need to put down the controller and pick up a few good books. At this point, I think that includes Amy Hennig.

Everything else in Uncharted 3 was pretty damn awesome. (Though the original aiming was rather crappy.) The music is particularly great and I think it deserves far more credit than it gets. Especially compared to the writing.

[goldwyncq]

I just hate how everyone is quick to label unexplained things as plotholes even though the devs explicitly left these things up for speculation.

[extermin8or]

the fact drake floated back to Yemen to within like stumbling distance of Elena's house was a pretty large plot hole lol

[kneon]

Why is that a plot hole? That is the same city where he was taken by the pirates so it only makes sense that their base is not too far away.

[Kennytaur]

That's not really a plot hole though is it? First off: The ship wasn't super far out on the ocean, so he would have drifted back ashore eventually, and if you look at this map ( http://upload.wikimedia.org... Yeme is the most likely country for him to land on. And he may not have stumbled all the way to Elena, he could have hitched, and even if he didn't, he's a stubborn man so I don't see it as unlikely that he did manage to walk there.
But you see, I belive a plot hole is when there is an important detail missing in the plot, or if a character does something that works against his or hers goal. Like for instance if Elena knew Drake was on a sinking ship without him telling her. Not that she did.

[Christopher]

Not really... This sort of thing is normal in these type of stories. Very common.

I can see issues with not giving background to Cutter and seemingly leaving out the parts that explain the whole Tarot card elements/purpose. But ending up back on shore that is closest to where the ship yard was located? Typical in adventure stories.

[extermin8or]

hmmm well I felt that him wshing up where he wanted/needed to be was abit too coincidental and was one of my main issues with the story; cutter isn't explained properly I think we're just to assume that he's someone drake (and apparently elana) are friends with; if you replay the game the tarot card will make more sense, as will the ring thing if you didn't understand it the 1st time; also they never explained how talbot kept vanishing like that (mainly the time by the pillars. Him taking a bullet I didn't mind too much lol as he could easily have had a bullet proof vest on under the suit :p

Infact I suspect cutter might be explained through a 2nd ps vita uncharted set between uncharted 2 and 3 :p would make sense for them to do that hell cutter was an awesome character-give him his own game :p

[kneon]

I expect some aspects are deliberately left vague so that they can be explained further in a sequel.

[Kennytaur]

Or a prequel, or a book. Hopefully not a film. :-)

[Pikajew]

Uncharted series has cliche stories but the writing is good. But for me every game has a cliche story, I like when a game has good writing.

[nolifeking]

I'm not reading this bs. ND is the only company that actually has a mature narrative in gaming. Most other companies go for either the brodude approach or the bay method. ND are the only ones who don't treat me like I'm an idiot and can follow a plot thread. Using the word cliche in entertainment is the equivalent of saying there's to muck salt on the potato chips.

[koehler83]

If you're not going to read it, then don't comment on it. Just move on.

[nolifeking]

The stupidest way to counter an argument has shown up. Tell me, am I wrong in anyway without having read it? Is Ishtar a bad movie without me seeing it? Better yet, is Quantum Theory any better since I haven't played it? A stupid headline will do nothing but get dumber reading the actual meat.

ND needs to fix their storytelling? I'm sorry, but am I the only one who has noticed an ongoing trend of games putting stories in strictly to justify existing? A game comes along that decides to flesh out charaters and have a narritive that goes beyond save this, do that and we get articles like this? How are any, and I mean ANY other dev telling stories any better?

[Frankfurt]

Not only you have no argument, you also are the worst type of ignoramums there is (the kind that covers his ears and screams hes not listening).

If you think Uncharted has good writing, you have never read a book in your life.

[Hicken]

I was gonna comment on a few other things, but I suppose I'll comment here, instead.

How stupid are you? No, I won't say that: then my one and only bubble will get labeled a "Personal Attack," and I won't be able to get any others.

Instead, I'll ask: isn't that a stupid thing to say?

The way books tell stories is different from how games, or movies, or songs tell stories. A direct comparison, therefore, is not a good idea.

How Frank Herbert or Larry Niven describes space is inherently different from its depictions in Farscape, Xenosaga, or or Star Wars.

Hell, let's narrow it down and go with one franchise that has multiple storytelling mediums: Star Wars. The books, games, and movies are often all done by different people, even when the source material is the same. And yet all the books aren't better than all the movies. And all the games aren't the worst games out there, or are worse than all the books and/or movies.

What you've claimed, in your ignorance, is that Uncharted's story does not reach the level of a book; your words assert that ANY book is better than Uncharted, which is just silly. The Cat in the Hat is not better written. The Twilight novels- good enough at what they do, which is provide a fantasy for teenage girls- are not better written stories than Uncharted's games are.

If you think Uncharted isn't better than ANY book, you shouldn't be judging writing.

[smashcrashbash]

I agree. What is with the attack on UC3's plot any way? There are thousands of games out there whose plots and dialogue sound like they are written by a six year old and yet you don't see articles saying 'your story is $hit, fix it'.

Heavy Rain had flaws in its storytelling and it was still hundred times better then 3/4 of the plots in modern games. I would rather listen to a flawed story then a story that boils down to 'Me space marine,shoot aliens, stop destruction of earth' or the 'Demons are destroying the world but I have more then enough time to pick flowers, get married or open a lemonade store'

I listen to 'UC is cliche' all the time while no one ever calls out the hundreds of games that rip off every Alien, Evil Dead, Starship Troopers, Blade Runner, Terminator, Star Trek, Star Wars and war movie in existence.

UC3 may be flawed in some respects. But at least they are still trying to make characters that still matter and attempt to make a plot that you can follow and keep you interested, instead of the crap people make that the characters could fall off a cliff and it wouldn't matter to anyone.People actually wanted to see more of Chloe and Elena which shows how much people care about the characters. The cutscenes in games these days make me want to rip my ears off or at least mute the television

[Kennytaur]

The Uncharted series has some of the best story-telling in gaming. I've found it to be far ahead of most games this generation and any generation. Another stupid site looking for rage-hits.

[DigitalAnalog]

ND already stated the game was rushed knowing the 11.1.11 deadline was their big mistake. Everyone can tell the game was rushed especially when it comes to the story. Notice in all of the games, the elements played a big part of their gameplay (U1 water, U2 snow). In U3, you get a series of montage and flashbacks with very little to do with the SAND.

**spoiler alert.........

And did I mention how usually the "pandora's box (metaphor)" was opened in the previous series (El Dorado & The Tree of Life)? In U3, it didn't and it baffled me because it always served as the crux of the plot point. Again, they just didn't have time to work things out.

Multiplayer was horrendous, the quality disparity between SP counterpart was quite obvious. Add to that, new players are going to have a hard time earning a kill with the aiming system being too loose (didn't play post-patch though). But it was good enough to turn me off.

[Nac]

Here is what gets me. Regardless of how the author feels about ND, shouldn't their be support for someone who wants to better story telling in the medium? Is it a sin to try and top the status quo. When ND made the statement originally their focus was on what they were going to do, not what they have done.

[Frankfurt]

If you say you want to make a masterpiece of storytelling, and you can't even beat the average level of writing in a shooter, then you SHOULD be called on your BS.

Giant Bomb had a long discussion about how and why the writing in Uncharted 3 is below even the very average writing in Gears 3 (it's in their best of the year deliberations).

[MsclMexican]

*facepalm*

yes lets all go listen to Giantbomb... they are the messiahs of gaming articles right...

I mean they completely know how to make video games and design stories and scripts

Jesus Christ honestly Gaming Journalists need to
shut the fuck up

They are ruining this industry

[Nac]

BS called on what they are setting out to do?

[solidsheep]

How many games try and push good game-play and story at the same time?
I think its unfair to compare games to other medium's.Their jobs is just to tell us a story.
And comparing a game to Michael Bay film. Haven't games been doing these over the top set pieces before he came along(almost positive we call this a level in a game).
One thing i have to nitpick about Uncharted stories is they do a poor job developing their villeins. I hope uncharted 4 has a villein that's as flushed out as some of the other characters in the game.