Final Fantasy XIII-2 and Final Fantasy Versus XIII (from my point of view)

Listen, I know that many fans like the changes being made to Final Fantasy XIII-2. I just don't care for this game. Now I have tried so damn hard to like XIII, I really did, but there was just so many things wrong with the game that I couldn't bare finishing the game. Not so much the gameplay as I know Square Enix likes to change it up with every Final Fantasy. That's just how it is with this series. As a matter of fact I kind of liked the gameplay in XIII. The problem I had was the story and its characters. I felt absolutely no attachment or could careless about how their stories ended.

And that's the problem.

Final Fantasy always transported me to a place where I could care about characters and made me become attached to the world and care about saving it. Final Fantasy XIII didn't do that for me. Hope was an annoying, winey kid. Snow obviously had ego problems. Lightning was an A**hole. And listening to Vinnel will get to anyone after a few hours. I felt no connection to the story and had a hard time following why the characters were doing what their doing ( how did we get on this ship in the sky? And uh why are we here again? What's the point in being in this theme park?)

A bland story and uninspired characters with no real villain will kill a Final Fantasy for me any day of the week.

This is the reason why so many people (including myself) don't give two shakes about XIII-2. Why risk spending money on a game that's precursor wasn't that good? Now I understand why so many fans are trying to defend XIII-2, I get it. I understand that fans want to believe that Square really took in all the input from gamers and crafted something good. I just don't believe they did. For Square to say "Fans demanded a sequel and that's what we're giving them." is almost borderline stupid. Who on Gods green Earth ask for a sequel. I remember fans saying that Square made a total dud and they should scrap and rethink Final Fantasy XIII, but never did fans "demand" for a sequel. Understand that if you are thinking that picking up XIII-2, that's fine. Really. If XIII-2 is the Final Fantasy that you have always wanted than why should anyone stop you from having fun. That's why were all on here right?

I just want people to see from my perspective. And hopefully the reasons I gave will make many of you understand why I don't care for XIII-2 and why I have glowing hope for Versus XIII and not for XIII-2. Hopefully this will have you understand why I comment the way I do on the news articles for XIII-2 and Versus XIII.

On the subject of Final Fantasy Versus XIII, as many of you can tell, I can't wait for this game. I have always wanted a game where Final Fantasy meets Kingdom Hearts' battle system and for it to have a darker story and characters we can actually care about. In many trailers you can already see the emotions in all the characters and all the messed up situations that they are in. Betrayal. Friendship. The Last Crystal. Love. These are the main words and ideas behind Versus XIII. Tetsuya Nomura is one of my favorite directors in Square too. He made some of my favorite games (Kingdom Hearts, Kingdom Hearts II, Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII) and one of the best movies to come out of Square (Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children). I have a lot of faith in Nomura and his team to create a Final Fantasy that will go down as one of the best in the series and quite frankly its sad that it has to share the name with XIII and is dubbed a "spin-off" when it really shouldn't be.

As a matter of fact, Square should rename Final Fantasy Versus XII. For the sake of making more money this would be a wise move for Square.

Think about it: A lot of gamers were burned by Final Fantasy XIII and will probably not pick up XIII-2 because of it. While Square has addressed many of the problems of XIII there is still a stigma that the game wasnt great or for that matter good.

So Joe Shmo who has only played XIII or just heard about how bad XIII was will probably not pick up XIII-2, Versus XIII or (for that matter) anything associated with Final Fantasy XIII. I understand they both have the same mythos but they are two completely different Universes. As a matter of fact there is only one fal'cie in Versus and that is Ethos (goddess of death) and you dont really see her or anything (like any god like figure).

So in gamers, Squares and everyone's best interest they should rename the game to Final Fantasy Versus or Final Fantasy XV. They can do it smart way too if they're that worried about confusing people about the name of the game. In the next trailer they release at the end where they show the name they can show "Final Fantasy Versus XIII" and then they could make the title glow brightly to where you cant see it anymore and when the light dims you see "Final Fantasy XV" or "Final Fantasy Versus".

I'll let everyone ponder that while I write my long a** paper that is due in a few hours. Oh and here for your enjoyment here is a video showcasing who is making this game and why it will be awesome.(try to ignore the annoying guy at the begining, he stops talking after a few seconds)

[PshycoNinja]

I would love to hear from the N4G community and see your guys thoughts on this subject too. Thanks in advance!

[Wintersun616]

I see where you're coming from, I really do. It's just that I personally liked the story of XIII. It's all subjective and there's no sense in starting an argument about that. And another opinion opposite to yours, the gameplay mostly irritated me, it was the story that kept me going until the end.

I don't know what you've been saying in news concerning FFXIII, because I don't recall your comments or name from them, and I'm too lazy to find out at the moment. But judging from your blog post I think we both agree that FFvXIII should've released before FFXIII-2 was even announced.

But because SE are actually willing to really try and listen to it's fans and fix things that were wrong in FFXIII, I'm willing to give them another chance, even though I dislike how FFvXIII was pushed for a later release again.

But again, that's just my personal opinion, and as long as you're not one of those who simply think that "XIII-2 sucks because XIII sucked" but actually have reasonable and logical explanations on how you feel, I have no problem at all with it.

Edit: Lol, just realized how diplomatic my comment sounds, trying to agree with everyone. Perhaps I should start pursuing a career in politics. :D But really, that's my honest opinion on this matter.

[PshycoNinja]

I respect your opinion on the matter. As long as people explain why they dislike or like something that is alright with me. I have a problem with fans thinking that Square were listen to them when they made the sequel but if they were listening to the fans about how much they WANTED Versus and did not want anything else from that universe than they would not have even considered making a sequel to XIII until Versus was done.

And that's the problem. If they haven't been listening to fans, what makes you think they are listening now? I just have no faith in Toryama or the XIII team at the moment to make a great Final Fantasy game.

@radphil
Sazh really was the best character in that game. He was the only character I actually liked. His story had heart behind it. And I didn't say Versus will be the epitome of the FF series I just think it will be able to stand amongst the giants of the series.

@Godmars290
That's sad to hear. But Nomura and his team really are the best at square and if you watch the first trailer above you will see a lot of talent at SE are working on this game.

@Nate-Dog
I totally agree with you.
However SE have enough time to rename the game. The marketing department would be more busy reworking the name than Nomura and his team. I can't imagine it to be that difficult to rename a game. If Type-0 can do it so organicly than Versus can do it too.

@lumley666
I agree with you on most points, its just that I did not like really any of the characters (besides Sazh) and the story was a jumbled mess. Like I have said (and many others) the story was hard to follow and after a while it became a complete mess.

Thank you guys for all your responses. I would love to keep this discussion going. While I may be out of bubbles I will still be reading all of your responses. So keep them coming!!!

[TopDudeMan]

FFXIII just didn't feel final fantasy enough for me... It wasn't a bad game, but I don't want future FF games to continue down that road. That is why I don't want to see a XII-2. I think this game (out of all the previous FF games) is the least deserving of a sequel.

Now, when I think about versus XIII, I see a single shining beam of hope for the future of the franchise. They have an open world, vehicles, a world map and maybe even a story I give a crap about...

[PshycoNinja]

I whole heartily agree with your comment. Versus XIII has the potential. Unfortunately so much is riding on that game that I hope reviewers don't trash it because it "doesn't live up to the hype".

Reviewers trashed Kingdom Hearts 2 (one of Nomura's games) but I thought it was one of the best games to come out of Square in a long time.

[LoLZoRz]

FF Versus really looks like it's gonna be the best FF yet. the characters look amazing and attachable, the battle system looks great, the game will have world map and spaceships, it looks epic(literally, it will be epic) etc.

just thinking about all that gives me goosebumps.

[PshycoNinja]

Lol me too. I get goosebumps every time I watch that trailer from earlier this year. It will be one epic of a game. The producers of the game have shown a lot of excitement, even saying that they think everyone will cry at least once in the game. That is showing signs of likable characters that people can attach themselves to. That's why this game looks to be so grand, epic and emotional.

[radphil]

Honestly the story wasn't horrible in FF13 to say, as it was just a huge assortment of pieces that they expected the players to already know the big picture that they're putting together, which honestly you don't really know until near the late end of the game.

I get from a lot of people that they ended around chapter 10, where you FINALLY start the exploration. This also ties into an issue I feel that people had more so of FF13 than the story, which was the linear aspect of how the game progressed you along.

Sure many RPGs have a linear type aspect to the story, but for some reason in that game, with the way how they designed it, it's like they just dragged you along, instead of encouraging the player to move ahead.

As far as the characters, for me I felt Sazh was one that honestly stood out over the rest. You have one who is a father, and you actually tend to sympathize what he's going through, and to me it tends to brake away from the traditional "generic rpg heroes" standard. Where as the others are like "We're going to fight such and such", he's somewhat in the back assessing the situation of what he wants to go through, and more so of an understandable reason as to why he's fighting.

On a side note I feel that people are pinning too much hope on VS13. Honestly I would gladly accept the game when it comes out, but I dunno if I would say that's an epitome of a FF game.

[radphil]

@PshycoNinja

Sorry, I should have clarified on the epitome part. I wasn't relating that to you saying it, just the way how people are treating it, if that helps any.

But yea I do agree on that it'll definitely stand out.

[Godmars290]

At this point I have no confidence in Square. Even with Versus and Nomura. There's just been too much promotion and promises, then excuses. I'll give Versus a chance, unlike XIII-2, but I refuse to get excited for it.

Sqaure likely hit their stride on the SNES where they found a balance between story and cinematic presentation, but since then they've become too focuses on cinematic scenes. To the point they aren't even looking at character and story.

[Eamon]

I think the difference here is that the Kingdom Hearts team is behind Versus. Their latest entry in the KH series, Birth by Sleep, was an excellent title. Since the first Kingdom Hearts, there has always been something a bit broken about the battle system and through each iteration (KH:CoM, KH2, KH:358/2D), Nomura had been trying to perfect it. It reached perfection in BBS.

Since Nomura has complete creative control over Versus, it means he has the same position as he had in the KH series. Only this time, the game is his biggest title yet and is mature and grim unlike Kingdom Hearts.

Nomura was responsible for writing the story of Final Fantasy VII - in my opinion the best story in the entire series. Not to mention, Kingdom Hearts story is pretty decent especially KH2.

From the gameplay trailer of Versus, the combat does look promising. An evolution of the Kingdom Heart combat.

[Nate-Dog]

FFXIII was my first Final Fantasy game (I have since gone on to play and complete VII and IX, and I downloaded VI the same week it came onto the EU PS Store but I am around 6 hours into it and going nowhere, maybe when the ridiculous amount of games coming out slows down I'll get going again with it but hey I'm not gonna complain about all these games!), but I liked it. Was it actually a good game? Lots of people have argued it wasn't, I know a massive FF fan who had perhaps the biggest hatred for XIII that I have ever seen but he still always says "I didn't 'dislike' XIII, it's just a terrible and awful game". I didn't think the story was that bad, but the group of characters were a bit odd. Lightning was just indifferent to everyone and everything throughout the whole story but in the last 3-5 hours suddenly she wasn't. Snow was just annoying and cringeworthy to listen to sometimes. Didn't have too much of an issue with Hope and Vanille honestly but I can easily see why people would, they didn't have that much depth either (although arguably Hope had the most depth out of the lot of them because he actually showed some character development, and considering what he went through and at his age you can understand him being a bit whiny and whatnot). But I enjoyed the story for the most part and I liked the gameplay and the game. It was linear and I have since seen the beauty of games like VII and IX and how older Final Fantasy games strutted their stuff and how great they were because of how they did things - but I still liked and like XIII for what it was. Maybe it wasn't great but I liked it and it got me into FF and I'm very grateful for that because VII is a superb game and IX is now one of my most favourite games ever.

Versus XIII looks like a whole different ball game though. As you say the story even in the snippets we have of it looks and sounds like it could be so interesting. The country and old-fashioned monarchy in a battle with other lands, the Noctis-Stella interaction, people like Ignis and Gladiolus and their connections to Noctis and the kingdom, gameplay, the world map (which hopefully we'll still get some decent version of, I read an article from a while ago where Nomura said they just weren't able to do a whole 3D world map considering the size of the world, which is understandable) and vehicles, etc. I think much of the allure behind the game is the mysteriousness of it since we know relatively little of it, not to mention the mysteriousness of the dark tone of it.

As for renaming the game FFVersus or something like FFXV (which I have heard the arguments for before) I can see why people think it should happen but at this stage I think just getting on with the game's development and making it as best as it can be is all Nomura and Squeenix ought to focus on right now.

[lumley666]

while i do agree with allot of your points i quite enjoyed the story of ff13, while overall i really enjoyed it it was no ff game if u compare it to my 3 fav games ever created, ff7,8 and 9. if it wasnt a ff game i think id of loved it more, it was a great game, but after playing the earlier masterpeices in the franchise i was left dissapointed, iv been dissapointed by ff12 too, ff10-2 was the last one i really enjoyed.

it annoys me that square keep messing with the near perfect formula they had with the others, id be happy with the exact same gameplay from the ps1 classics just with updated graphics. in my opinion the company hasnt been the same since merging with enix, i was recently playing ff9 again on my psp and it amazes me how theyv gone from ff9 to ff13, most games they have released this gen have just had a total lack of creativity. jrpg's are my fav games to play and i cant believe how long its been since iv had such a good time on one, yes iv played lost odyssey which was very medicore to me, PLZ SQUARE BRING BACK THE MAGIC!!!

[ZombieAssassin]

There was a few things that made it impossible for me to finish FF13 (bought it twice and borrowed once to try and finish it but couldn't).

Firstly and most importantly the story I couldn't get into it. Most of the FF games I've played it was for the epic fantasy story they'd tell, 13 it felt like watching a very bad anime. The characters also weren't that great, I didn't hate them all as I actually liked Lighting but they...well they were bland and cliche.

Secondly the battle system. I hated that I couldn't control every character, not saying it's a must but for the most part in this particular game I couldn't stand having to constantly switch styles so my AI controlled team would heal/protect it kept pulling me out of the game.

As far as 13-2 I doubt I'll ever play it unless I one day happen to finish 13.

I am excited for Versus 13 though, and it's mainly because it's suppose to have a darker story and the more real-time battle system reminds me of a cross between FF:Crisis Core and Kingdom Hearts. With that said though I'm not gonna hype myself up like I did while waiting for 13.

[WhiteLightning]

I've always said they should rename it

It makes more sense at the end of the day, it means more attention will be on FF Versus when it gets it's name changed since it would be a big thing

[Whitefox789]

It wouldn't be that hard I mean FF Type Zero was originally named FF 13 Agito

[zerocrossing]

They should call it Final Fantasy Versus (add possible subtitle here) and make it a separate FF franchise like Type-0 has been hinted as, that would be best IMO.

We could have the usually FF games for main console the -Type series for handheld and Versus for console, but keeping with the Kingdom Hearts style battle system.

[xXxSeTTriPxXx]

i thought the game was @ it's best when it focus (no pun intended lol) on the characters and at it's worst when it forced you into corridor/linear gameplay mechanics.

this was my problem with ff13, it was all action and nothing to break up the monotony.i loved the combat system but to much of anything is almost always bad.

barthandelus would've made a great antagonist if they would have gave him proper time to develop (like seymour for example).

all in all i loved the characters in 13 they had good reason as to why they fought, i thought they were well devolved and the game had some genuinely touching moments.it just didn't feel like a complete game.

[Ashriel]

I'm OK with Versus sharing the XIII name.

A game like this is aimed at people who are familiar with Final Fantasy, so no one will care if Joe Shmo stays away from it, millions will still buy it.

Don't underestimate the number of FF fans out there.

[Simon_Brezhnev]

I agree with you Sazh was the only likable character. The rest of them got on my nerves.

Sazh - Common Sense
Snow - Fake Hero
Vanille - Liar
Lighting - Stuck up
Fang - Smart Ass
Hope - Pussy

[Tigerfist]

I hate the new gameplay. Sure they always change it up a bit but now it changed way too much!

I couldn't care less about the plot and all. Ridiculous.

PS: FF XIII-2 is pathetic and VS XIII smells like Kingdom Hearts in disguise (which I honestly don't care about).

PPS: Fuck you SE, I'm going home.

[DigitalRaptor]

"VS XIII smells like Kingdom Hearts in disguise"

Versus XIII has no Disney characters and has a MUCH darker storyline/background than KH. Parts of the gameplay can be compared to Kingdom Hearts, but who cares? The game looks to be smokin!

[Tigerfist]

Yes, I mean't gameplay wise. And yes I do care about that.

I don't want an action-rpg, I want the good old FF style gameplay.

[Xanatos]

Square made ff13-2 because love it or hate it ff13 is the fastest selling ff title so why the hell not? I didnt enjoy ff13 for many of the same reasons you alredy pointed out but that doesnt change how successful the game was.

[Whitefox789]

Though we know it was the fastest selling due to Hype and for it being in development so long not to mention the Hypes raised even more when its a next gen FF title though the irony is its more downgraded and didn't move the franchise anywhere.

I mean when you look back at the game it already started development on the PS2, was scrapped for PS3 which people were having trouble developing for as it is with any new console, spent 2 years of development, announced they were going multiplatform, keep concept from 2 years of development and rework engine to satisfy both architectures with an additional two years of development.

You know what this above paragraph sounds like? A fing mess, that's what it sounds like.

[guitar_nerd_23]

I recently forced myself to replay FF13 and I think the story of FF13 is actually alright on paper, but was delivered terribly- I think if the first part was playable instead of revealed in little cut-scene flashbacks throughtout the game it would have helped as it would give you time to understand the world from a normal cocoon citizens point of view, learn the terminology, meet the characters gradually and get to know them and make you actually care about being exilled from your home.

I agree the characters were pretty terrible bar Sahz who was awesome.

I think one of the problems for me is I had no sense of the scope of the world I was travelling through, it felt like a series of disjointed locations with nothing really connecting them or highlighting their reletive positions.

The battle system I'm a bit mixed about it was alright (once it unlocked) but I'm not sure about the stagger system as your either powerless or breifly vastly overpowered, there seemed to be very little benefit to common sense elemental attacks and the summons seemed to basically all function as Pheonix summon from previous games.

I'm going to rent FF13-2, I don't have very high expections for it- but I do expect it to better 13 by a healthy margin (allthough probably still fall short of a quality FF title).

I'd like to think Versus will be the FF I've been waiting for but I'm skeptical, whats been shown looks good ..but not much has been shown.

I do worry that they just can't do anymore it without the old dream team...

The media may say the JRPG stagnated by the end of last gen but for FF I think they should have treated it with the same care Nintendo does it's best games- If it ain't broke don't fix it, refresh it ala NSMBs, Mario Galaxy and Zelda Skyward Sword.

FFIV-FFIX followed a quirky, lovable formula- I say it's time to go back there- turn based ATB and all.

edity: ff always makes me write enormas posts, thanks for reading if you made it to the end- ff certainly has passionate fans.

edit2: just watched the trailer you posted and noticed the scenario writers credentials- thats sounds more promising!

[guitar_nerd_23]

sorry i double posted

[Capt-FuzzyPants]

The god's name is actually Etros not Ethos. And how does anyone no that she is the only fal'cie in the game. I've read just about everything for Versus and that was never mentioned to my knowledge. And if you had a hard time following 13's story there is a video on youtube made by Square to explain the mythology of the world. If you haven't seen it you should watch it. Once I figured out the mythology and what Barthandelus was trying to do the story made perfect sense. It just doesn't come right out and tell you like other games. When you think about FF 13's plot was basically what the terrorists in the middle east are trying to do.

[Whitefox789]

I'm also looking forward to Versus because of Tetsuya Nomura just because he said this is what he wanted Kingdom Hearts 2 to be dark and grim in which we see some of his vision in the World That Never Was.

On the subject of FF XIII in truth I almost finished the game I was on the last chapter the section where the game breaks off of its linearity and gives you an illusion of freedom and then wala my PS3 YLOD on me after 3 years. I definitely have to also agree with you on the appeal of the characters for Lightning to be the second main female protagonist in a FF game I was excited to see the change of pace. However she was shown off as you said the typical soldier a**hole, there was just something in FF 6 that made Tera more appealing.

[TheColbertinator]

Versus and Type 0 are the only FF games that matter to me.

[Pyscho_Mantis]

compare the characters in ff7 to the characters in ff13....oh dear where did you go wrong square.