Xbox 360, PS3 'creatively limiting' - Halo Anniversary dev

Developers are creatively limited by the current generation consoles, according to Matthew Karch, CEO of Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary single-player developer Saber Interactive.

[Godmars290]

WTF does the PS3 have to do with Halo?

[wwm0nkey]

he is just saying in general for video games, not just Halo

[buddymagoo]

I think what Godmars is trying to say is that the Halo developer can't make that statement about the PS3 because they have never worked on the PS3.

[Pandamobile]

How do you know the dev that said that doesn't have experience working with the PS3?

Saber Interactive has made/is making PS3 games.

[buddymagoo]

@Pandamobile

I apologise they have made Timeshift for the PS3. I will say though, that I hear a lot of developers saying they need limits. Each to their own, I suppose.

[guitarded77]

I don't think Timeshift pushed the limits of either console. Technically or creatively.

[Narutone66]

The trick is on how to optimize the game for the console.

[lastdual]

All hardware has limits, hardware that's half a decade old even more so. You don't have to be an expert at all the platforms to understand that.

I'm all for optimizing, but if some of the "just optimize better" people had their way, we would still be playing 'optimized' PS2 games. Sometimes more power *does* allow for fuller gameplay experiences.

[DaTruth]

No matter how optimized, SotC, Ico and GoW are, they would never look close on PS2 to what they look like as remakes for PS3; and those remakes look nothing close to PS3 games!

Optimizing has it's limits and I'd rather play games a generation better, than slightly better optimized games!

But he can still do Uncharted 3! That's not bad and he's not doing anywhere close to that!

[iceman06]

@DaTruth...I would agree and disagree. I think technologically YES I would love to play games from this gen. However, creatively there were several gems from generations past that could teach a few classes on how to create a game that is as visually appealing as possible AND provide an experience that is rarely duplicated. SoTC and Ico are 2 examples of that.

[disturbing_flame]

There's no limit to imagination, if they got good concepts the game will be fantastic. Those devs are just lazy, they don't want to create a new franchise, they just want to make of the game they did by the past but instead of making them evolve in their gameplay, narration, mecanism; they just want to evolve on the technical part.

They just want to make games with better graphisms. It's the easy path.

[andibandit]

@DisturbingFlame

if you actually read the post you would see he dosnt mention graphics as much as he mentions processor power i order to do things like

real dynamic crowds, liquid simulations and better cloth simulations,
soft body dynamics, flexible joints.
and thats just the tip of the iceberg.
imagine 128 vs 128 players in BF3 and so on.

[nix]

it is creatively limiting if you're working on Halo franchise or any franchise that is already established.

starting afresh with the new IP is the right way to go.

[morganfell]

Creatively limiting?

"Hi. I am in the running for ROTY!" (retard of the year)

I have my preorder in for HALO Anniversary and can't wait for the game to launch. This revamped title can still steam roll most current games easily. It is a landmark title...

...but that comment is idiotic. When a person such as this individual begins to produce titles from scratch like the HALO CE with which he is involved then he can begin to say something.

Irony much?

That is what makes his remarks such a farce. He is working on updating a ground breaking title THAT WAS BUILT ON LAST GENERATION HARDWARE AND STILL OUTSHINES MOST GAMES MADE TODAY. It isn't all about the purty graphics butthead.

I read this persons remarks, then look at what Sony is doing with Eve and Dust 514. Suddenly I think, "Hey. Maybe those people that support forced sterilization for genetically warped individuals are onto something because Matthew Karch is a poster child for such action."

Has he seen the sand in Uncharted 3?

Look at LucasArts Euphoria, that was demoed last generation. That never matierialized and it wasn't this gen's hardware that was the issue. Yes more power, more memory, more advanced GPU's are great but that isn't the most important factor in next gen gameplay. It's imagination that says I am going to change the way people interface with each other. I am not going to make the same FPS with the gun sticking in the field of view from the right side.

Working on HALO CE and stating current consoles are creatively limiting is an easy nomination for Self Pwnage.

[SilentNegotiator]

You can always trust a developer on these things that makes top tier games like "Time Shift" and "Battle:LA".....you know, games that made us rethink the ps3/360.
/s

lol, they're lucky that someone made this next game (Halo remaster) FOR them; it will be their best for sure!

Their biggest limitation is their own selves.

[LastDance]

I think Working on a 10 year old game is 'creatively limiting'

[Solidus187-SCMilk]

you dont think ND could do more with a new playstation? You dont think Kojima could do more with a PS4? You dont think turn 10, EpiC and 343 could do more with a new xbox?

Hes making a general statement about the console industry, and it is 100% true. This guy could have worked on Ps3 before as saber is not a 360 exclusive dev, but any developer knows that 5+ year old tec is limiting the possibilities. They could make a huge, more ambitions game in may ways on the powerful development PCs, but it wouldnt run on the consoles.

If you dont think a multiplat developer can comment on the consoles because he is working on just an xbox game currently you are funny. Share you knowledge with us then??? If you say anything other than the current consoles are limiting all developers then you are wrong. Even new consoles will have limits. Its just that these consoles are pretty outdated and the gap is growing and growing between the consoles and the powerful machines the they make the games on.

[Persistantthug]

I haven't seen this whimsical game.
Has anyone?

People keep forgetting that developers have to make their games for all kinds of lower end systems, and that includes LOW END PC's and Laptops that in the current state, are typeically less capable game machines than the HD consoles.

Take WITCHER 2, a PC exclusive, was that limited by consoles? That's now coming to the XBOX 360, and I'd put money on it that the XBOX 360 version will run as well or better than the Minimum PC specs.

If anything, consoles bring creativity by enabling developers to do things with consoles they weren't supposed to do. MLAA for example, has spawned DLAA and FXAA, and other offshoots.

Optimizations with consoles are the key.

[blumatt]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Consoles provide a standard set of specs, whereas with developing games for PC's, you've got to keep in mind tons of different combinations of hardware (varying amounts of RAM, processing speeds, graphics cards, etc.).

[stu888]

absolutely spot on mate.

[lastdual]

This "whimsical game" hasn't happened yet, but that type of logic looks backwards if you apply the same reasoning to previous generations.

There are plenty of games on current consoles and modern PCs that couldn't have been done on the PS2/Xbox1/Gamecube. The additional power has allowed for not only better visuals, but improved AI, physics and more.

What makes you so sure we won't see the same thing happen again when the next consoles roll around? Just because you can't imagine it now, doesn't mean it won't happen.

[IcarusOne]

It depends on how you define "can't be done."

BF3 on consoles doesn't perform anywhere close to how it does on a high end PC. That can be said for a lot of games.

I for one am ready for the next gen.

[nick29203]

Battlefield 3 had to be cut down to size considerably to be played on console.It's a fact that Rage could have been a much larger game if the Xbox 360's discs had more storage space.The games can be done but they could be done much better with new consoles.

[Eyesoftheraven]

No shit sherlock, but you missing the whole point the guy's trying to make! He is expressing his desire to push things furhar then they can be pushed now at a technical level so that they may then spread their wings and travel beyond the current benchmarks at the artistic level which is constrained naturally by aging hardware. You can't paint a color image with a lead pencil. Ya got it!?

[vortis]

Yeah because Crysis is obviously the same experience as an XBLA/PSN title as it is on a high-end PC? Keep dreaming. The optimization for consoles turned one of the highest rated benchmarking games into just another skybox-oriented, near-linear shooter.

For people who enjoy Super Mario Bros. 2 on the NES you can play it and enjoy it. That's fine. No gripes here.

However, some of us would like to see what developers can do with 8gig of RAM, a 2ghz GPU and 4ghz or more of a hexacore CPU. If you want more down-graded experiences on consoles that's fine, but I didn't upgrade my PC so GTA IV could run as crappy as it does because it was optimized for the Xbox 360. You might like that but I was sick of the same two cars spawning all the freaking time because of the console's RAM limitations.

No thanks.

[Shadowaste]

@persistantthug

when the witcher 2 comes out on consoels it will be sub-hd, covered in jaggies, riddled with pop-in, run at a 20-30 framerate at best, lack high resolution textures, not have soft shadows and honestly, it will look nothing like what it looks like on a decent mid range pc, let alone a high end pc that can max it out.

Ohhh and I'll name a few complete and utter failures on ps3/360 that should neve have been ported to consoles from pc

Lord of the Rings Battle for middle earth 2
Supreme commander 1 and 2
they were SLIDESHOWS whenever more than 10 units were onscreen....never should have even been made for console.

hell to be honest dark souls and GTAIV run so terrible on console, they should have either downgraded the visuals or lowered the resolution even more and I freaking LOVE Dark souls, but play around at the firelink shrine, blighttown, the depths and watch the framerate drop town to single digits, yes....like 7 frame per second freaking slideshow

I think with dark souls more optimizations could have been made or something, cause that game ain't no beauty pagent winner....maybe implementing loading screens or something.

But, the 360 is six years old, the ps3 5, it is BEYOND time for new machines for devs to flex their muscles in, they have squeezed every single last drop from the consoles and that is why no game since uncharted 2 has been even remotely impressive on console!

[andibandit]

@Persistanthug

Battlefield 3 64players with 3.0 Destruction.

Console players get the ultra dumbed down version, it's not war at all. Might as well rename it for consoles "Desolationfield 3"

[SuperM]

Can somebody explain to me why Persistantthug gets so many Agrees with such a, lets be frank, not very clever comment.

Every fucking game these days are made to work on consoles with the exception of MMOs. There is noone pushing the boundries of what can be done on a high end PC because its not financially feasible to make such a massive game with such a small market. Therefor no such game will be made until the next generation of consoles come out.

Its not hard to imagine though some of the possibilities that next gen hardware would present.

Simple things like more enemies on screen, more and smarter AIs could make a huge difference in gameplay. You can have battles that feel truly massive and you wont have more enemies dropping in everytime you kill an enemy just because the engine wont allow for more then a few enemies on screen at once.

Personally im looking forward to more bigger more open games with huge drawdistances. In most games nowadays the leveldesign is so obviously trying to hide the limits of the engines. I want to see games where the designers can make the levels however they like to, without having all these restrictions. Certainly there will always be some restrictions but they should be minor next gen compared to this gen.

I feel like games this generation has little more to offer that we havent really seen before and i dont have a problem seeing how developers are being creatively limited. I often think of games that would be cool and very often i realise it just wouldnt work on the current generation of consoles.

[bebojet]

Another developer who makes mediocre games complaining about current gen consoles limitations. Yet they can't top Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, Battlefield, Batman and many more.

[BitbyDeath]

These sorts of statements just sound defensive to me. They do not appear to have any faith in what they are producing so are blamming it on the current technology instead of their own shortcommings.

[aviator189]

Saber Interactive also works on multi-platform games.

[xtremeimport]

Mean while at Sony.....

Uncharted
Metal Gear
InFamous
Little Big Planet
Resistance
Killzone

creativity limited? those are all pretty damn creative games if you ask me.

[GoldenPheasant]

remember, according to the media...PS3 sucks! Xbox the bestestest, period.

Kinect, gets a pass!
Live hacking, gets a pass!
Multiple discs, gets a pass!

Move, shit apprently!
PSN hack, you now wha happened!
"MANDATORY! installs, oh the horror!

[SJPFTW]

Killzone? creative? LOLOLL. i didnt know a corridor simulator borrowing game mechanics from better games and implementing them poorly is creative...

[xtremeimport]

@SJPFTW nice job taking 1 game out of the 6 I listed and trying to prove my point wrong.

[gaden_malak]

Am I the only one who sees the irony in a guy who is REMAKING a game is talking about limited creativity?

[manman6]

The only way you could be limited is by your imagination.

[Hozi]

"The best way to put it is it's kind of like being given a Lego set with 100 block and a set with 1000 - you can do a lot more with the second set. You have more wiggle room and more blocks to make something big and great."

100 Block Lego=XBOX360
1000 Block Lego=PS3

1000000 Block Lego=PC

[Ju]

That's a total BS analogy, oversimplified. Maybe that is how a designer (not as in tech design) thinks. Pure quantity. We had this problem over and over in the past and it just shows a disconnect between art design and understanding techology.

It's not simply the number of blocks you can use. Those are much closer if you want to use this analogy. But they also differ in size. You probably can have a 1000 small ones in consoles, and 1500 big ones on the PC. Now, that hits he mark much better. Now be creative and use smaller blocks to build something. That might actually help. But some people have big hands. They like to play with Duplo instead of Lego Tech.

[kikizoo]

Halo devs can't make a statement like that without adding "ps3" = dammage control for the fans..

[Optical_Matrix]

Naughty Dog give you my friend, a big middle finger.

[Pandamobile]

I'm sure Naughty Dog are itching to get their hands on the PS4 so they don't have to jump through hundreds of hoops trying to fit everything into 256 MB of RAM.

[Godmars290]

Trying to run things through two sets of RAM you mean.

@Ulf:
Of course its not that big a deal, that's why I said it.

It also why there will always have the argument of PS3 exclusive looking better than Xbox 360 ones. That the 360 will have the edge with most multiplatform titles, because they're built more with the 360 in mind.

[The Meerkat]

If Naughty Dog gave me a big middle finger i'd just...

...Don't aim on their ass!

[Ulf]

@Godmars290

Split memory pools is not really as big an issue as you might think. Typically, games use at least 256MB for screenbuffers/meshes/textures/ etc, and swapping in some additional space from main RAM isn't really a big deal.

Not any bigger deal than having to do tiled rendering in a small 10MB eDRAM framebuffer, for example -- maybe even easier. PC devs have done this same thing (as the PS3) for eons.

[stu888]

must have been some big hoops, if you look at uncharted 2... the best game this gen in my opinion.

[Unaffected]

This gen is relies too much on prerenderd and quick time events

[BakedGoods]

I'm guessing you've never played an Uncharted game before.

[Pandamobile]

But most of Uncharted 2's cut-scenes are pre-rendered.

[Tarantino_Life]

This gen we have a lot of pc fanboys commenting on console related topics.

[kikizoo]

Panda, stop talking about things you really don't know nothing about, they are not.(and it's 256X2 rambus)

[WitWolfy]

@Pandamobile, who told you that??? I wanna bitch slap some sense into that person

[Solidus187-SCMilk]

ahahha thats pretty insulting to naughty dog. You dont think they could make a much more amazing game with more powerful hardware????

you would probably faint if you saw what they could do with a PS4.

This guy is right, all devs could do more with more power. if they use that power is up to them. but the great devs now, like ND that you mention, could do far more with new consoles then they could with the current ones.

Imagine what just U3 ported to PS4 could be like. Same game but in native 1080P 60FPS and 4x AA and already is a huge improvement.

now imagine Unchated 4 on PS4 compared to U3. 1080P, 60FPS. but with better textures, more polygons, better AA/AF, better AI, better draw distance, bigger areas, more characters on screen, better effects, shorter loads, more people online possibly, etc.

Any good dev could use more power right about now. Just because this multiplat dev is working on an xbox game doesnt mean he cant know what every developer in the industry does too.

Edit- if you people really dont think the ps3 or 360 is limited then go play Dark souls and go to the area BLIGHTTOWN. See those frames dropping to 10-15 FPS in this game that has only good visuals??? Yeah, these consoles are getting old and any dev could use more power by now. Maybe it could be bad programming, But I know that even if the consoles had only an extra 256mb more of ram and nothing else, then the blight town part in dark souls would be silky smooth instead of a slideshow(and yes I have the lead platform PS3 version and I know that the frames also drop like crazy in the 360 version in that area).

[Ju]

"Imagine what just U3 ported to PS4 could be like. Same game but in native 1080P 60FPS and 4x AA and already is a huge improvement."

It would still be U3. So what exactly can't they do with the PS3. I didn't catch that.

I mean, not scaled back, I mean, what would limit them? Of course fully dynamic lightning being one, or photo realistic landscapes, character models.

But, have you seen latest game play videos? Does this look like "limited" to you?

Shaders are extreme in that game (sand?), lightning is awesome (and shows not everything needs to be dynamic), the best animation system ever in any video game. I'd say, when someone else reaches that level, we can agree we reached a boundary. But so far these are excuses.

[Laxman216]

No, im pretty sure the guys at Naughty Dog are nice people, they wouldnt flip off another developer for no good reason.

[WhiteLightning]

Erm....360 devs might be but it dosen't mean PS3 first party developers are in need of a new console, don't get me wrong I bet they would like the PS4 to come out but I think they could survive another year two without one

Someone like Peter Molyneux is definilty limited by the 360, that's why the guy hypes things up so much only for us to get dissapointed.

Hate it when developers are stuggling so they make it seem everyone is in the same boat when their not. I wouldn't want to see it on the PS3 but if it was I bet ND could make Uncharted 4 look better then U3.....hey we thought the same about U3 when it was announced but like always ND have blown us away. Now could Epic make the next Gears of War look better then Gears 3 on the 360......I highly doubt it because the 360 would probably limit them to what they could improve.

[Pandamobile]

The entire essence of console game development revolves around these strict limitations.

You wouldn't believe how many tricks Naughty Dog used for Uncharted 2. For example, they had to sample their animations at 10 FPS, rather than 30 and interpolate between frames in order to fit all their animations in the PS3's RAM budget.

(I only use ND as an example because I've watched a bunch of their GDC presentations)

[Ulf]

That's not really a "trick", per se. It's standard practice for games which have more than one animated skeleton/animation set, and the 360 has the same problem. The 360 also has the additional issue of not having a zillion SPUs to assist with animation decompression, so the compression schemes have to be simpler (thus taking more RAM), or the number of characters animated each frame has to be less.

Panda is totally correct that working around these issues is the "essense" of console development, however. If one factor was causing game design to be held back in favor of consoles over PCs, memory limitations would be it -- not processor power, as so many people seem to believe.

[Pandamobile]

I don't know how standard sampling the animations at 10 FPS is. I know all of the engines that I've fooled around all sample at 30 FPS or higher.

[Ulf]

Honestly it's difficult to tell the difference between an animation sampled at 15 fps and one sampled at 30 fps, unless you use a terrible compression scheme.

Uncompressed animations are pretty hefty in size -- we're talking 60-80MB in the typical shooter, as an example, for 15 fps anims. Good compression usually yields a colossal 10-to-1 redux (although faster schemes yield only about 4-to-1), and animation memory budgets, for a relatively complex animated game like a shooter, tend to fall in the 8-12MB range, in the end.

Reducing framerate is usually a linear gain, even after compression is factored in -- only games with relatively simple animation sets will go for that extra fidelity, at 2-3x the memory cost. Games like Rock Band, or Dance Central, are good examples of games that would stand to benefit from the extra fidelity, by burning the extra memory required, because they are very animation focused, and don't require a truckload of dynamically blended animations for a zillion different possible situations the onscreen characters could be in.

[Unaffected]

"The smart money says we're nine months away from the reveal of brand-new Xbox hardware, that major advances in visual technology are being held back by the hardware limitations of six-year-old architecture. Gears of War 3 begs to differ. Developed in parallel with the hugely popular Unreal Engine 3 technology, the game looks absolutely remarkable: put it side-by-side with the last game, or even up against Epic's own Bulletstorm, and it's clear that the current gen is still capable of some genuine surprises"

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[WhiteLightning]

"You dont know what you are talking about"

Really....well I don't think you do aswell

That's odd because here in this interview there all set for next gen and are getting ready with the UE4. Mike Capps even knows too much that he can't really say anything about it. So it does show you that because of this there getting ready because they've hit a wall.

"The talk naturally switches to the next console generation. Given Capps’ involvement with ongoing editions of Unreal Engine, he’s bound to know something. Turns out he knows too much.

“The hard part about getting to work with the hardware manufacturers early is that then I can’t talk about it at all,” he says.

“‘What would you like to see?’ I can’t tell you, because I know what’s going on.”

Despite the silence, though, Capps is willing to concede that developers Epic’s engaging with on UE4, the company’s next generation engine, are pumped.

“We’ve only talked to a small number, but the ones we have are very excited because we’re doing a lot of core work that’s going to make it easier for them to scale up, especially with lots of processors,” he says.

“That’s what you see on PC; ten years ago you had one, maybe two, and now you have 16. I think we’re going in the right direction, and I expect to have a bigger marketshare, not a smaller marketshare.”

http://www.vg247.com/2011/0...

[Shadowaste]

@unaffected

Bulletstorm on pc utterly and completely DESTROYS gears 3 visually up and down and all around, it makes gears 3 look 4 years old, I own them both and played them both on the same exact 1080p Samsung 55", and side by side you would think Gears 3 was covered in vasaline after playing bulletstorm maxed out on pc in 1080p with 16x anti aliasing at a buttery 60 frames, there is nothing on consoles that has been made or ever will be made this gen that looks even close to bulletstrom on pc///

Same goes for;

Rage PC
BFBC2 pc
Dirt 2 pc
Shogun 2 pc
Crysis 1 pc
Crysis 2 pc
Stalker CoP pc

....basically any AAA PC game from the last 4 years makes anything on console look last gen.

[qwertyz]

@WhiteLightning

lol the difference between ps3 and 360 isn't much at all so stop trying to make it look like ps3 is a generation ahead of 360 crysis 1 on both consoles looks amazing and features fully destructible massive environments and is still the best looking game on consoles.

devs are limited by consoles even a 2006 high spec pc is several times more powerful than ps3/360 what does that tell you ?

uncharted 3 doesn't even look much better than uncharted 2 so what are you talking about ? the ps3 is not an omnipotent machine and if epic made gears 4 on 360 it could look better than 3 considering crysis 1 on consoles ouscales it, has fully destructible environments and still manages to edge out anything else in visual quality on consoles today.

so the ps3 doesn't limit developers ? lol the hardware isn't improving like pc always does so yes the ps3 is limiting devs just like all other consoles infact ps3 and 360 has been limiting devs since they launched even a 2005 dual gpu high spec pc is more powerful than either of them

RAGE is another very good looking game that runs 60fps yes it sacrifices a lot to get it but its still one of the best looking games on consoles and its all creativity but with consoles creativity can only take you so far.

you think the ps3 can match crysis 1 pc running at medium with a little AA,AF @1080p ? no and it never will(same goes for 360) so please stop talking as if the ps3 is a powerful machine because even modern warfare 2 on pc looks better than your "amazing" looking killzone 3 and it can run maxed out on a low end pc LOL

I'm sure you're one of those that think ps3 can match battlefied 3 pc maxed out when in actual fact the pc version running minimum settings will be better looking than anything on consoles just the same way crysis 2 pc running gamer(lowest settings possible) looks better than anything on consoles INCLUDING uncharted 3 :/

i feel sorry for you console fanboys your hardware has been outdated for the past 6 years now. do you know when 512md ram went out of fashion ? in 2004!!!lol

@the disagrees

you ps3 and 360 fanboys troll each other all the time so why is it wrong for me to troll you and your pathetic consoles ? the hypocrisy on this site is astounding lol

[WhiteLightning]

All I got from that was

"Blah Blah Blah 360 fanboy crap...Blah Blah Blah"

EDIT:

@402: Sorry I got up to "uncharted 3 doesn't even look much better than uncharted 2" and just assumed he was a 360 fanboy since that what most of them say

[402]

@WhiteLightning

lol you didn't read his post. just his regular pc elitist B.S how could you not know qwertz doesn't he always troll console articles talking about how superior pc is ?

[torchic]

everytime i come on this site i see trolling (i'd prefer the word stupid) comments from qwertyz. ALWAYS.

[DigitalRaptor]

Sorry, but if you've watched the Desert Village gameplay demo and can't notice the truly significant boost Uncharted 3 has in terms of visual fidelity and quality of animations that adds to the overall graphical impression, then I'd advise booking an eye-check appointment.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

I was unconvinced until I watched that section!

Naughty Dog are technical wizards - don't underestimate.

[boommuffin]

is it me or do PC elitist just care about graphics & dont give a shit about gameplay?

[402]

consoles are fixes hardware that NEVER changes and both consoles are not much different sony just has much better first party devs than MS

the only platform that doesn't limit devs is PC because pc is constantly improving this is the reason pc is always ahead of consoles aside from the fact that consoles are always designed to be cheap

i doubt that next gen consoles will be as powerful as modern high end pcs(not to speak of high end pcs in 2 years time that will be 5-6 times more powerful than current ones) and thats because it will cause next gen consoles to be too expensive so people like qwertyz will always spew their pc elitist B.S :(

[Unaffected]

Saber Interactive said that not 343

[Fanbot]

LOL

nice try, fail dev.

tell that to ND, and GG

[Hufandpuf]

hm, UC series is a glorified singleplayer game with deathmach modes tacked on. don't get jumpy.

[KingSlayer]

No shit. And it's one hell of a single player game with fun, tacked on deathmatch.

[Tarantino_Life]

No shit! Here I was wondering why the number of players playing UC2 online is greater then BFBC2 PC,360,PS3 combined. I now know!!! its because its mp was tacked on. Lol! Seriously you need to remove some of the garbage that grows between your ears. Now dont get jumpy :)

[boommuffin]

@Tarantino of course pple are playing U2 to get ready for U3 & in case you didnt know the BC games where designed as console shooters so of course no one is playing them,if they wanna prepare for BF3 they play BF2

[Brownghost]

The reason it looks good was because of the mass room of the blu ray to put much textures also both consoles are crap, their just 6 year old hardware not great anymore.

[WitWolfy]

Just goes to show they WISH they had Bungie's creativity

[Tuxedo_Mask]

I didn't see the actual quote from the title in the article itself, so perhaps Matthew Karch is being misquoted, but I disagree that the 360 and PS3 are limiting creativity.

As he states in the article, technologically speaking, the 360 and PS3 are beginning to reach their limits, but despite that fact I think that a truly creative developer doesn't really care about technological limits. On the contrary, sometimes the most creative works of art and entertainment are born from pushing the limits of what an artist is given to work with.

The only true limit to creativity is the human mind, the rest is just an excuse.

[TacoTaru]

I have to agree. Creativity certainly wasn't limited on the PSOne or PS2. It isn't the hardware. If everyone would stop making the same games over and over it might lead to a little creativity. Adding a little more pretty to the same old thing maybe some progress could be made.

[telekineticmantis]

The Xbox 720 is coming out sooner than we think so get ready for that.

[ZBlacktt]

Will it have a DVD player or a massive hard drive?

[Raoh]

LOL people said crysis couldnt be done on consoles.

they said nothing will be better than uncharted.

they said nothing will be better than uncharted 2.

they said/say uncharted 3 is it. no more.

These devs are half right but also full of it.

[402]

cryis 1 on consoles doesn't look as good as the pc verison running medium with a little texture filtering and anti-aliasing it is also inferior to the pc medium becasue it has less geometry, lower res textures amongst other things(so crytek wasn't completly lying when they said crysis 1 wasn't possible on consoles) but the console crysis 1 still plays much better because of better controls and nano-suit powers.

consoles are fixed hardware so they are indeed limited but creativity goes a long way besides consoles still have some of the best games

[Ju]

Yes, and yet is is the same game. Aeh, actually, no, it is the better game because the controller layout changed - which makes it much more playable on consoles (played the same on PC a while back).

So, doesn't this exactly contradict "consoles limit creativity" when indeed the exact same game (with some scaled back visuals) runs on consoles? I mean, what actually is missing compared to the PC version? Nothing. Simple.

[boommuffin]

@Ju half the game(multiplayer) is missing lol

[Ju]

^^ How does that relate to "limited on consoles"? That was probably more a marketing decision than anything else.

Crysis2 MP are identical between PC and consoles; and Crysis MP doesn't really add anything to that. So, I don't see how this can be used for a technical limitation.

[Brownghost]

Crysis 1 on consoles isn't that great looking, they used lighting to hide the real look. Thanks yo blu ray they can stuff a lot of graphic tricks and textures to make the game look good.

[Laxman216]

I dont really mind when they bring out a new batch of consoles, as long as while they're in development, Sony and Microsoft dont take focus off thier current gen and still give us great games.

That said, I think we can all agree that upgraded tech would only be a good thing for the gaming industry.

[smashcrashbash]

*Looks at UC3, Starhawk and LG*. Nope, don't see it. We all want new consoles but if any of these people think that I won't still enjoy my PS3 to its last breath before I get a PS4 then they have gone off the deep end.

You can have all the power in the world and STILL make crappy, dull, lifeless repetitive games. You will just have faster moving,shinier garbage.All the power they claim they have and games like BF3 still looks like repetitive, long winded, snooze fests and will most likely have just as many glitches, cheat hacks and issues as the last game. Developers always want more power but usually use it for nothing else but to make the game look prettier with.almost every problem and issue with the last game coming along with the sequel.

So maybe they should stop taking about getting more power when they learn to actual use it for something rather then making the same game over and over again with just a few tweaks.What we need is to put fresh concepts,stories and ideas before power and specs.

[Brownghost]

Your right, We need new innovative games not better graphics aall the time

[elshadi]

why every one forget to say SM's God of war 3 ???

[narutogameking]

Uh those Halo devs don't know about PS3 development.
Now, if Naughty Dog starts saying it I'll believe it.

[Brownghost]

Dude he's right since their 6 year old hardware and ps3s graphics are fake thanks to large space for textures and visual tricks. Fanboy

[Hicken]

The PS3 isn't 6 yet. And exactly how do you have "fake" graphics?

How do you trolls keep winding up with all these freakin bubbles???

[elshadi]

"ps3s graphics are fake"
WTF dose this even mean ???
and why you have all those bubbles when your comments are so stupid???

[e-p-ayeaH]

lmao

[Clarence]

Halo has never been a graphic powerhouse. It's always been about the multiplayer. Halo graphics are weak, and they have never developed for the PS3.

[MysticStrummer]

Next gen will arrive and what will we get...? The same games we're getting now for the most part, with a few exceptions. Creativity has very little to do with tech.

[thebudgetgamer]

I guess Media Molecule didn't get the memo.

[Hassassin]

Then develop for PC...

[Silly gameAr]

When the games stop coming, I'll start listening.

[Xtremist]

So there are now rumors that M$ will release a new beast at late 2012?
If it is powerfull enough* and has more quality exclusives that the 5 established ones of this generation then i am ready to Jump in.

*powerfull enough:
-DirectX 12 GPU with at least 5 teraflops of raw power.
-Multicore CPU with next_gen FPUs/VPUs, at least 1 teraflop of raw power at total (1,5 Tflop would be better).
-Memory hmm.. minimum 3GB of GDDR6.

[kaveti6616]

not even the 4th xbox will be that powerful.

[devilhunterx]

And will have a floppy drive.

[ZBlacktt]

This guy is really talking about the console he develops for. He doesn't want to put out mutli DVD disc games. Besides, when has Halo ever looked like MGS4? UnCharted 2, Killzone 2 and 3, GOW3 just to name a few?

Google super computer and PS3 and tell me what comes up. Holding dev's back huh?

[banner]

I'm ready for new consoles... But I think devs aren't creative much anymore and look to put the blame on current consoles.

[Brownghost]

Just get a pc

[banner]

I don't want just a graphics boost..

[Enigma_2099]

You trying to say these consoles aren't powerful enough to help you hide your mediocre FPS game?

[mcstorm]

What is it with developers moaning about the limits of the 360 and ps3. Look at gaes like gears 3 forza 4 unchanded 2,3 killzone 2,3 even games like lbp crysis 2 look really good on both consoles and its up to the developers to stop being lazy like they get with the pc and push them selfs to what they can do with there games not think right this half assed games is the best we can get out of the console when other developers are getting more. Look at gears 3 its using ur3 engine and looks far better than anyother game using it and its on the 360 too. But epuc know what they can do with it and made gears 3 one of the best looking games ever.

People have said for a long time that the pc market is dieing and its not the gamers that are killi g it it is the developers who only make games to run on the latest hardware so peope have to spend £150+ on a new graphics card or processor ect. I remember when i had an amiga 1200 and my amiga 32 and games pushed the limit of the computers/console for years but always found more ways to get better looking games out of it. Developers dont do that any more and this is hurting the not us.

[zero_gamer]

"If you can have liquid simulations and better cloth simulations, and instead of rigid body animations have soft body dynamics, flexible joints... think about the type of gameplay that could be created with technology as an enabler."

Or just make games that are actually fun. Stop focusing on zOMG BETER GRAFIKS and start focusing on fun game play experiences. Look at From Software with their Demon's Souls and 3D Dot Game Heroes, FUGLY AS HELL but some of the most entertaining experiences to be had from this generation.

But if all this technology is your thing you have the PC gaming platform to develop games for while you wait for the next generation. Don't you realize that?

[J86blum]

I don't think any developer should be allowed to make a statement on limitations unless they have made a tripple AAA title that pushed the system to its limits.

Cause outside of that, the whole im being limited as a developer is a cop-op used by some companies.

[wolfofashes]

I would have to disagree even as a guy studying to be an engineer,creativity does not equal polygon pushing in any way...
And in terms of design this generation is a dream to developers...

[BrianC6234]

Is this guy serious? I guess he isn't pushing the PS3 then. Look at what Naughty Dog is doing with the PS3 and they say they can do more. Stop making lazy ports on the PS3. Start really using it. That's your problem.

[sirdrake]

coming from the guy who is part of the least creative franchise this generation...

[Bonerboy]

Holy Shit! Now let me get this straight.....according to this guy... if you are working with older processors that are many years old... it actually limits the flexibility for the developers? I couldn't quite grasp what he was trying to say until he threw that Lego analogy at me... I mean, I can build a decent fire truck with 100 pieces, but just imagine how cool that fire truck would be if I had 1000! Wow! The ladder could finally reach the roof of my sister's Barbie Fun House....hoo wee, that just really puts it into perspective right there. Jesus! What are we gonna do?! Oh man, this is serious news here...someone get the mayor!!!

[WildArmed]

Says the dev doing HD ports =/

[byrnezy]

When Halo looks remotley close to the visuals we get with PS3 exclusives like Uncharted and God Of War, then, then just maybe I will listen to what he will say

[HappyTrigger]

You can't compare Halo to Uncharted and God of War because their art and design choices are completely different. They utilize the hardware in different ways. Every developer picks what is best for that particular game. Whether that'd be focus on textures, open-environments, lighting, etc....

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

Byrnezy should've said "lets see Halo at the VERY LEAST match Killzone 2's visual fidelity". I personally don't want to hear about difference in art style etc. as to of why Halo cannot look like a wayyyyy better game. I just feel 360 is the weakest between the 2 consoles!...

And I own both!. Gears 3 is the closest thing I've played (been playing) on 360 that even comes close to a PS3 exclusive graphicly!

[josephayal]

Looks like HALO is coming to PS3

[Eyesoftheraven]

To the simpleton know-it-all's who think he's talking artistc creativity: He is not! He means to say devs are limited by technical capability of the aging hardware within consoles to be able to furthar push the artistic boundaries. Don't think for a damn second that the brilliant, hard woking minds at Naughty Dog, Infinity Ward, DICE, EPIC, etc.. dont desire the same advancements in hardware capabilitees that this dev who obviosuly knows wtf he is talking about unlike most of the users sitting in front of N4G just yappin their hot headed, disrespectful mouths in a truly non-creative effort to talk as much shit as possible in order to make themselves feel better! These developers "crying" and "complaining" as some so willingly describe are merely, yet passionately expressing their desire to push their aristic visions furthar without being constrained by any hardware limitations. You can't paint in color with a damn lead pencil. Ya got it!?

[Raoh]

another example.

everyone thought the unreal engine was dead and over used and no longer useful to make good looking and compelling games with great graphics.

those comments were made almost 6 months prior to the release of Batman Arkham Asylum

then devs stopped talking trash about UE3

[elshadi]

really ??
SM/GG/ND/SP/EPIC want a word with you halo dev

[Yodagamer]

developers are only limited by there own creativity, not by hardware

[Eyesoftheraven]

You can't paint in color with a damn lead pencil. You can't paint in color with a damn lead pencil. You can't paint in color with a damn lead pencil. You can't paint in color with a damn lead pencil. How many time do I have to say it! Some people just don't get it!

[Yodagamer]

and that is why you use what you have to make the best outta something (be it pencil or whatever your babbling about), get creative with what you have

[Eyesoftheraven]

(FOREWARNING: SARCASM) Behind your logic and most other's here we should still be viewing black and white TV and movies because 'filmmakers are only limiting themselves.' Lack of color, surround sound, Digital Video Assistants, Raptor HDDs, wireless communication, 1080p, 4k and up, HD Audio, SSD's, RED, ALEXA, etc, etc, are all just bullshit excuses to be less creative, because the artists didn't want to work with what they had when it was just black and white with no sound, but music.

[Eyesoftheraven]

That's what they've been doing a damn good job of for the last 5-6 years! They're ready for the new tools, because curent gen has hit the plateau, I don't care what kind of "optimizations" they impliment that will only push things so much farther and besides, that's another topic. They can continue to be as creative as they ever want to be with the current tech, what they want is faster tech to implent better technology, better physics, more complicated art directions, etc, etc, etc, so that they may explore their creative genious even deeper.. WTF is so damn hard to understand about that!? It;s not some lame, lazy excuse to hide the fact that he sucks at creating games. Don't think for a damn second that the brilliant, hard woking minds at Naughty Dog, Infinity Ward, DICE, EPIC, etc.. dont desire just as much as this guy, substantial advancements in hardware capabilites.

[imoutofthecontest]

The console wars are so awesome.

[THC CELL]

these guys need to talk to sony exclusive developers apart from the R123 developers

[jneul]

oh the irony, coming from a developer doing HD port, I'd love to know where their creativity is, meanwhile at Sony little deviants are rolling all over psp vita, need i say more??
Sony does new I.Ps, MS rolls out the same old franchises like HALO because its not capable of coming up with anything new...

[WitWolfy]

More like afraid, remember RARE's launch titles, talk about abortions. NEW IPs never to be seen again. buh bye innovation.

[Tanir]

halo is creative? funny, its the same thing since halo 1 and they act like they are so imaginative, yet all they make are the same game over and over.

im sure its them limiting them selves

[lumley666]

your comment is so true, iv been saying that for years, as much as i loved halo 1 and 2 , the rest are all the same and totally overated
... sorry but its fact

[QuantumWake]

Let me just clarify something, Saber is not the Halo developers. They're the Anniversary developers, but not THEE main team behind Halo. That would be 343. These guys are just speaking in general.

[mixelon]

The console hard-liners in here are ridiculous. Even the devs of your favourite console games consider current gen consoles creatively limiting. They wouldn't likely say it publicly if they're close to Sony or MS though.

AI, graphics an effects aside, even simple features we used to take for granted aren't happening this gen. Eg the reason games like KZ and uncharted don't have 4 way split screen is because the consoles can't handle it. The reason gears, rdr etc have rudimentary AI is because it's not worth the overheads.

The reason games aren't all 1080p with 8xAA at 60+ fps is because the consoles can't cope. Of course they're creatively limiting. Imagine open world games like GTA but with the graphics of KZ3 (or better) the current hardware is preventing that from happening.

Don't get me wrong, the current consoles are v powerful and still have mileage left in them but they're never going to have another mold-breaking technical jump in the scope and creativity of games.

[lumley666]

360, PS3 'creatively limiting' - Halo Anniversary dev

that is the funniest thing iv ever read loool

plz, i mean wat a load of nonsense, just look at most of exclusives for ps3, need i say uncharted? more creativity is in that 1 game then most games, the pc is far more advanced but i dont see anything on that thats more creative that game shows devs can. also ps1 has tons of really creative games even now, just because current consoles are now lacking in power dont mean they cant be cretive, its down to developers

[Tanir]

you left out the most creative of all.

Little Big Planet

if anything this generation, last gen, the gen before that was ever creative it was LBP

[lumley666]

oh ye lol i loooove lbp lol sorry its just im spoilt this gen with ps3, so many epic games i just cant remember them all lol

[Inzo]

LBP says hi. ;)

[Shojin1]

I can think of 1 system that is holding everyone back...

[Grodd]

I have a more accurate news flash.

Xbox and PS3 developers say Halo is creatively limited.

Seriously these guys have been milking the crap out of a ho hum paint-by-the-numbers shooter for years. Yawn!

[Tzuno]

make the consoles upgradeable.

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

I will say the best games graphics wise that I've played for each console is as follows!

360 = Gears Of War Franchise (3 being thee best exclusive graphicly)
Alan Wake

PS3 = Uncharted Franchise
Killzone Franchise
God of War 3
Heavy rain

But with these games being the best on their consoles as far as graphics though (In my opinion). With it being this long in these consoles life cycles... Im actually getting a bit p!ssed we aren't seeing EVERY dev going for the graphic fidelity that we've seen in the titles I've listed above.

It also makes me afraid for the next gen because if devs OBVIOUSLY aren't even trying to fully embrace the tech they have now... what good are they to us if the next gen comes out soon? when they aren't all even trying to bother maxing what they currently have in their hands?

I know it makes me mad... anyone else?

[Treyb3yond]

Just another two bit dev trying to get publicity for his game. Oh don't worry sir, I won't be buying Halo when there is Uncharted 3 and Skyrim to play, so don't even try.

[Game0N]

this guy better keep the ps3 name out his mouth bitch!

[leemo19]

Old hardware thats in the ps3 and 360 have been limited to a point on games, but it really matters on the dev who making the game. Nd sure seems to push the ps3 hardware even more, Epic sure seems to push the 360 hardware still.

[Bonerboy]

I'd like to see the ps3 kids get some halo on their system. It just plays/feels/controls just right....and it's fun.