After its much-anticipated — and delayed — arrival, Gran Turismo 5, the racing simulation series for the Sony PlayStation 3, hit the streets in late November. Over the last month, Sam Schembari — NY Times resident racing game aficionado, and a son of James Schembari, an editor for the Automobiles section — has been unraveling the layers of the game.
Throughout its marketing campaign Forza Motorsport has been described as being “built from the ground up,” but some players are skeptical after discovering a reused car model that first appeared in Forza Motorsport 3.
yep been playing it all day and the newer car models look ok at best and the older models looks downright ugly and out place. im playing on pc at 4k with everything on ultra with dlls performance mode and the cars just look completey off, even the paints looks off, gt7 on ps5 shits on the car models here and its not even close, espcially paint and materials wise!!
its by no means a bad game but it is again another hype job from MS doesnt get close to living up to what it should be.
i genuinly thought this was gonna improve on GT7 in every way, when in fact at this in point after 10 hours the only thing i think is better is the standing start races as opposed to gt7s god awful chase the rabbit races starting 25 seconds behind.
the fuel and pit stop additions to forza are just surface level additions so they could say hey we did it, i am yet to see a meaningful incorporation of either one and the systems that would facilitate it being genuine are not there.
I cant control my power to fuel ratio during the race like i can in gt7, there is no timing hud for the whole grid, so i dont know how far ahead or behind i am or when drivers are pitting so i could plan my strategy, not that pitting is necesarry at all.
rain doesnt cause a slippery surface or aqua plaining nor does it tell you just how wet the track is like gt7 which informs you if inters or full wets are needed, no weather map, nothing.
its really just shinear version of previous forza, if you want proper sim racing where actual strategy comes in to play with longer races, with real pitt stops and having to manage your actual fuel effectively during the race then this game isnt it, go get gt7.
if you want a really simple and basic sim racer then this is for you.
majorly dissapointed, i thought this was the one game from MS that would hit all the right notes, in reality built from the ground up for next gen was a bullshit line and and its not even better than a cross gen game released a year and half ago.
One big thing I feel makes GT7 so much better is that they surface mapped all the tracks so they have actual imperfections which means that sometimes the fastest path is slightly off the expected path because you have to avoid the imperfections to maintain traction.
GT7 is by far the more realistic racing game. It's kind of funny because they claim they reworked the whole driving and physics system to compete with GT Sport and Forza's not even close to as realistic as even GT Sport was and GT7 is way better than GT Sport.
Excellent write up.
I follow SuperGT and in the preview of the game he was not impressed with improvements.
Said it felt the same as FM7.
The whole time I was searching for ray tracing in race and it was not present.
Built from ground up my ass.
(Yes yes I know there is a performance mode and a visual mode I know)
P.s. You can choose your starting grid position. WTF is that in a sim race?
@mtrnyc
its all the little details, you see the track evolve in gt7 with the rubbers marks, and the marbles from the tyres start building up off the racing line on the side, you can actually see the tyre deformation when racing an f1 car for instance.
honestly, im actually shocked at how much better and more advanced gt7 is than this game, this is literally just a surface level sim racer, it would make a fantastic entry point for someone new to sim racers but my lord does it pale in comparison to gt7 where it counts
@stanjara
yep picking your starting spot is dumb AF for this type of game
"there is no timing hud for the whole grid, so i dont know how far ahead or behind i am or when drivers are pitting so i could plan my strategy"
Wait, really? They don't have the distance or timing splits options for the HUD anymore that's been there from the start, after they add pit stops, when you'd really need something like that?
@dumahin
i will correct myself slightly just opened the game to see if it was option and you can turn it on for single player races, it was set to multiplayer only but again if the races were really gonna need it they wouldve had it set as on but no the races are like i said simple surface level sim racing.
but to answer the question correctly yes it actually does have the option, you just need to turn it on
And what about the loading times in Forza? They sure are super fast in Gran Turismo 7 (PS5). :)
"i genuinly thought this was gonna improve on GT7 in every way, when in fact at this in point after 10 hours the only thing i think is better is the standing start races as opposed to gt7s god awful chase the rabbit races starting 25 seconds behind."
This! I really hated this for every race it's always a running start and always last. And we all know the reason for that which is the bad ai.
"its by no means a bad game but it is again another hype job from MS doesn't get close to living up to what it should be" <-- Spot on. I've been playing since the second it launched and I'm a little disappointed too. You're totally right about the paint..its whacky how bad it is visually. I have pretty damn good hardware and the frame pacing is totally jacked up. I wanted a close-to-GT7 game on my PC, unfortunately Forza is the furthest from GT that its been. :-(
“built from the ground up,”
This isn't even the oldest models, they are recycling, there is stuff dating back to the 360 in the game.
Everything is all lies with these guys.
Enjoy the battle pass and the DLC to get cars and tracks in your live service b.s. game, meanwhile we'll be getting them for free in GT7.
Built from ground up for the Series S most probably. I mean that's 75% of the audience right there.
Forza motorsport doesn't have that traditional campaign but rather just tick box races. Most reviewers are omitting this
i dont mind how they have done it but, theres not a whole lot of content race wise which is a let down, and the car RPG thing sucks balls.
i unlock the same things in the same order everytime and make the same upgrades in the same order everytime.
rather than being able to look at the strengths and weakness of the car im using and put my credits into upgrading the weakess im stuck upgrading parts i dont really need cause thats all i can do and by the time i do unlock what i really wanted, lo and behold the 5 race series is over and its on to a new car to rinse and repeat my unlocking and applying my upgrades
On one hand, that was kind of a bigger deal since the old models didn't have an interior so it was all just a black silhouette inside. But on the other hand, they made no claims that it was built from the ground up and were clear there were premium models that did have the full interior and some without.
I agree, it was jarring and not needed in my opinion, but it didn't make the game bad or worse, yet that was the impression around here at the time if you remember.
i uh....liked the black interiors. I got the perspective without the distraction. I wish it was an option.
From Digital Foundry: "Welcome to the third part in the biggest DF Retro episode we've ever produced - a year-by-year look at how 1080p gaming fared on the PlayStation 3. Launched in 2007 touting its then-exclusive HDMI digital interface, Sony layered full HD gaming on top of its Cell processor and RSX 'Reality Synthesizer' as key selling points for its third generation console. Of course, we all know how that turned out - both Sony and Microsoft machines routinely ran the most advanced titles at sub-720p resolutions, often with questionable performance, so what happened to the 1080p dream?
In the first two parts of John Linneman's investigation, we've covered off the first four years of the Triple's lifecycle and moving into 2010, the overall fortunes of the PlayStation 3 continued to improve. The platform holder released - what was then - the most advanced motion controller in the console space, backed up by experiments with stereoscopic 3D, which turned out to be a short-lived but still formidable pairing. Combined with a strong E3 showing, PS3 was looking good.
However, it's fair to say that it was a fallow year for 1080p gaming on the system, with only Scott Pilgrim Saves The World's razor-sharp pixel art upscaling, Castle Crashers and Soldner X2's 3D/FMV stylings accommodating full HD output - alongside a wonderful Monkey Island remaster."
Just remember ladies and gentlemen, Sony never said all games would be 1080p. Only that the system would support games up to 1080p in a survey before the system was released.
https://spong.com/article/9...
And as we saw, some games did support it, some games tried their best to support it and some games didn't or never reached it.
Is a higher resolution great to have if you can do it? Sure. Is it necessary for a fun game? No
But what I find interesting is Eurogamer. Are they really talking about HD and PS3 in their article or are they really pushing their 4.50 Euros 4K video download subscription? Seems one is being used to sell the other. Just look at the bottom of the article.
thats what every company tries to do, push for people to buy their products. Are you really gonna blame them for that?
Not all articles are about selling. They're about informing or entertaining.
Maybe I'm supposed to watch the video instead of reading. But I shouldn't have to click. But the article lazily tells us some games did hit 1080p and some didn't. I didn't learn anything new as I own the console. Then, they push a Patreon subscription.
Are you saying every opinion, preview, review and rant article requires a push to buy something now? Tell me which sites are prone to do so so that I can avoid them in the future.
not everyone played during the ps3 era. I started during snes era but loved seeing articles/videos about how gaming evolved before that.
i dont think this article is trying to push you to get that patreon sub, it doesnt for me at least. I dont think theres anything wrong putting an ad at the bottom of the article. all the regular DF videos are free already.
Wipeout HD on PS3, a remake of the PS1 game was 1080p 60fps. And that released in 2007-08
This really feels like a filler article. I don't feel like I learned anything notable or substantial from this. I feel they could have reduced the unnecessary intro and over-explanation of things and put the whole series in one article for a more substantial and possibly informative piece rather than piece-mealing it out as they have.
It's more about the video. DF Retro videos are for Patreon members first, and I think the whole thing was one big video. For the youtube channel, it gets chopped up and released weekly.
Chris is actually right on this one. Something known already was just kind of washed over in the article. Unless you're supposed to get more in the video. If more is in the video, then more could have been said in the article.
Only thing I learned new was that they are selling a subscription. My point though is that you gain more viewers by having better articles and content.
When thinking about simulation racing games in this console generation, it’s not unreasonable for your first thought to be “Forza”. Microsoft’s first-party sim-racer series has been wildly successful, and for many of us, it’s been the go-to franchise for quite some time. But simulation racing games weren’t always synonymous with Forza; there was a time when Polyphony Digital’s hardcore series, Gran Turismo, reigned supreme. While the long-time franchise continues to sell exceptionally well, there’s no doubt that it isn’t the young, spry series it used to be.
It doesnt suck but I would love to see a return to form with GT7. Sport is such a departure that it can turn some people off. It has gotten better over time but it's still no match for a proper GT7.
Sport is awesome for what it is...
However, polygon built a whole new engine and the tech is still being worked on...
I understand it is easy to praise a cookie cutter because it release the same game over and over with rotations of maps and cars...
But this engine polygon has designed does more for things other than gaming.
Repetitive old engines with new makeup does not make anyone king.
Gt7 will be most likely in two years with 120fps and ray tracing because their new engines are ready now.
It decided to focus on racing rather than cars and in the gaming world, racing = gameplay.
Good I guess selling millions of copies and have OFFICIAL FIA license races and Esports means it sucks
We just don't get it every year which is why ms also delayed next forza. You can't keep making yearly sequels. Quality and innovation takes time
GT sports at launch to now it's a different game and support has been free
GT games have always sold millions of copies and what's so innovative about GT sport? It's a racing game FFS.
The online championships and tournaments alone offer more innovation than any racer this gen🤷♂️ then you also get the live ones in New York etc with proper race like commentary, something else no other sim has done before. It sells millions because it's the best, simple really.
IRetrouk
I'm not even sure why think that having proper like race commentary or championships and tournements is innovative but I'll play along... GT Sport was released in 2017 so how do explain that this video https://www.youtube.com/wat... from 2016 exists?
It became the best online racing community for console players and its an amazing achievment.
@solidgamerX That's really not very impressive. Somebody with an interest in cars plays racing games and becomes a race car driver. That's like saying "look at this guy, he played COD and now he's in the military"
SolidGamerX
You must think that we're all stupid enough to believe that a game will turn anyone into a professional racing driver.
FORZA!!! AAHAHHAHA !! Haven't i schooled you on this already before! You're still spewing nonsense on this threaddd looool
Forza has always been better online than. GT and still is. Great to see PD try something different with GTS but let's face it this gen sonys racing games have been poor this then compaired to what Microsoft has had to offer. Forza 7 is one of the best racing games on xbox and pc but for me Horizon 3 and 4 have set the bar this gen. Of all the things microsoft got wrong this gen 2 of its racing games got a lot right and others are now playing catchup.
It's debatable which is the better game. To me, Forza has the upper hand.
But in terms of online community and events? Ha. Don't lie to yourself just because you don't like Playstation.
SolidGamerX
You didn't need to confirm what I already knew: if you didn't think that we're all stupid you wouldn't make such stupid comments that only those that are dead from the neck up will agree with.
Did he say gt could turn anyone into a racer? No he didnt, he asked what game has done it like gt has, which is true, gt academy done it throughout gt5 for a start. You need to do some research fella, cause your wrong.. again.
And lmao at element and the downplay, not even similar you crazy man, not even similar🤣 you realise gt has turned gamers into drivers from gt5? Go look at gt academy and tell me how that would be anything like someone playing cod and then joining the army, the downplay in gt articles is funny.
So you think he learned the required skills playing video games? I remember when people claimed children were learning how to operate guns because of video games, do you think that's also true?
Two completely different things and you know it, it is a fact that gt has helped real gamers become real race drivers, the proof is easily available online and I'm not going round searching for links that has been posted many, many times before on this subject, Go and look at gt academy like I mentioned and you can see for yourself, they start out on gt and go from there, so yes the game gran turismo teaches you some driving techniques, now if you can find me a link where someone has been playing cod and went on to become a war hero, please let me know because I couldnt find anything, also do you have a link to where cod has a program to train soldiers? Like cod academy or something?, I couldnt find one of those either, maybe when you do then your comparison will actually make sense.
IRetrouk
You mean the GT academy that provides training and licenses for a person to become a professional racing driver? The GT academy is how you go from being an average driving joe to become a professional racing driver not GT the game.
GT owns the console sim racing scene in my area and around the world. Just ask a real race car drivers
https://youtu.be/2pC3-eCAdv...
You forget that there are two Forzas, Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon, which aims at different audiences.
The usual response from someone insecure that feels their favorite racing game is nowhere near as good as it once was. I really liked Gran and played them all. Loved the Vector from part 2. But the franchise is not the same.
Yea Forza took over and is now the best sim racer with motorsport and the best arcade racer with horizon. GT was the best but it has been falling short for a long time and I'm not saying gt games are bad but no where near king like it used to be. I'd say forza motorsport 3 was the forza that really upped the franchise and forza 4 was when forza became #1.
I remember the glory days of gt but those days are long gone but it's still a good game just not the best. Of course ps fans will never admit it because they will die before giving MS credit.
I do think they need some new creative heads in to give them some new perspectives, they seem stuck in a rut. It's a very high quality rut but they're still stuck in it.
The USA leg of the Gran Turismo World Tour is going on in New York right now. Go watch it guys, there's some damn good racing and crazy updates to come.
I've seen some of it before and to be fair it's not much different to watching real motorsport so credit to them for that.
Another GT5 vs Forza 3 article?
The article really makes no valid points about anything. The write says Forza(720) looks better than GT5(1080), complains about GT5's interior view(Guess he doesn't know you can adjust the viewing distance), cries about damage again. He asks what game to play. Play both. Why does NY Times need to make a trolling article on what game to play?
Looks like he hasn't completed GT5. moaning about lack of damages. Lol typical.
The ignorance about GT5's deep options is staggering in this blog. I really shouldn't have wasted my time in reading this.
GT5 is fun to drive, more than forza 3.All other things forza 3 does well.
Like GeneralMLD said it. Gran Turismo 5 is better as a simulator game. But Forza 3 is a better overall package.
Do people disagree because of the statement?
Or because GeneralMLD sucks donkey balls?