Nonsense Gamer - I-Play: Has Natal Already Failed?

Mat Growcott of Nonsense Gamer writes:

"When Natal was announced, I cringed. Not because it was a motion sensing peripheral but because it was obvious what they were trying to do: crack the 'casual' market.

The way they were selling it on stage, the applications that they showed us all reeked of "we want our own Wii and this is the way we're going to do it." (Imagine that same sentence but in an old folks' home. There's a feature film in there somewhere.)"

[mjolliffe]

No.

[-Alpha]

Agreed.

I mean, as good as this piece may be, speculation doesn't hold much water, especially when very little with Natal is known.

I myself am optimistic but concerned with the lack of a physical controller.

[deadreckoning666]

And here we go again with the doom for Natal articles. The final product may not be out for another year and people are already talking smack lol. I 'll judge it when I use it.

[Guido]

Then yes, it has. If they can charge 100 bucks for a WiFi adapter then you have to accept that this will be a bit too expensive to justify hitting a ball in some super breakout game but if they price it right, then perhaps it will have a chance... Maybe.

[Shadow Flare]

Yes

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[2cents]

but I am leaning towards Natal being pretty good fun overall. I will get it because I can, and I always like to try something new even if it doesnt have the staying power.

Lets see what MS have up their sleeve, I doubt that they will balls it up. I guess I fall into the camp of wanting them to succeed just as I want the PS3 wands to impress.

Speaking for myself, I am looking forward to the new generation of motion control.

EDIT: @shadowflare LOL, man I almost wet myself watchin that. Nice 1 dude! That granny is the shiznit

[Aquarius]

It will be stillborn.

@below
"It's clear Sony supporters fear Natal and know it will most likely pick up where the Wii left off. Angry because of Sony's short coming in motion, they follow and attack Natal trying to pick it apart. lol"

Some people really have no common sense.
SONY has been working on motion controls from since the year 2000.
The PS Wands will be released first and the probability of it flopping is 3/10...Natal 8/10.
as you go up it has a greater chance being a flop.

[we won]

A sort of pre-damage control by Pro Sony fanatics and PS3 fans. Is it coincidence this article was written and or submitted on N4Gs today before CES?. lol

It's clear Sony supporters fear Natal and know it will most likely pick up where the Wii left off. Angry because of Sony's short comings in motion, they follow and attack Natal trying to pick it apart. lol

I hope Sony tries show their Motion tech again. I got a kick out of the sh*t eating looks of fail and embarrassment on Sony reps faces at E3 when they showed PS3's motion after Natal.

[monkey602]

I really liked the look of Natal but the more I hear about it the more I think it's going to dissapoint. If people just let it go and wait and see then it could easily impress but if it's being hailed as the "xbox savior" then it cant ever live up to expectations.
I like the aesthetic coolness to it! The fun little mini games and when they showed someone browsing through the menu tabs by waving. They were all nice but The more I think about it the more and more impractical it seems. I'm curious to see how they deal with a lot of the issues I can imagine. I hope they pull it off. I'm just in 2 very different minds about it at the moment

On a side note in this particular case MS need to avoid a habit they are well into. They just can not afford to charge a fortune for this if they really want it to take off

[beans]

They have absolutely no way to find out about the Natal project and, short of hearing the Wii Golf course is being paved over to make way for Microsoft sport and Natal health spa, they wouldn’t react even if they had.

It's called word of mouth kind of like what happened with the Wii. I think the idea of playing games with out a controller sounds like a plus for casuals. MS will advertise Natal and in turn it may or may not bring them Wii like success. Heck before Wii released everyone was telling people that didn't game about it so why not the same love for Natal?

[matgrowcott]

'It's called word of mouth kind of like what happened with the Wii. I think the idea of playing games with out a controller sounds like a plus for casuals.'

I don't think that's a big deal for casuals. In fact, I can't imagine anyone I know playing Golf or Tennis on the Wii and feeling comfortable without holding anything that is, roughly, the same shape as the Wiimote anyway. Especially since anybody who is any good at it uses the 'waggle' to their advantage.

I can't imagine Natal working by word of mouth in the same way the Wii did for two reasons.

1. The Wii was cheap enough to pick up and now, if you get one of the resort packs that are quite common, comes with everything you need to get started.

The 360 is going to cost the console + Natal, because there is no way Microsoft will sell the whole package at what they're selling the console at alone. If they could afford that they'd have another price cut to bounce back after the PS3 came down in price.

2. My first question would be "What does it do that the Wii doesn't?"

And if your only answer was "Well...there are no controllers" I would laugh in your face for trying to tell me that is worth paying for a whole new console over.

Obviously, we don't know if this is true, the quality of the launch games will decide what the answer to that question is, but it'd take a lot to get someone who isn't a gamer to buy a second console.

[monkey602]

"the quality of the launch games will decide "

not only that but continuous support is an absolute must. There are many who would be interested by this but will sit it out for a while to see how things shape up. If there isn't a steady release of new things to do with Natal then a large number of people will lose interest without ever having given it a chance. Natal is interesting but the market is very tough at the moment and you have to admit the odds are against it

EDIT: AlphaMale22

"I myself am optimistic but concerned with the lack of a physical controller."

I am the very same. It's a nice idea but what happens when the camera starts picking up movements you dont want it to? Sure it'll be forgivable in short bursts for party type games where you will be standing in front of the camera for a minute or two at a time. It'll be impossible the control your surroundings for a full length game though. It is bound to become frustrating. I am so keen to see how these kind of problems are solved

[jut420]

@we won

do you actually believe what you say? lol Natal didn't show that it was lagless gameplay...Sony's motion control did however... If there is anything that matters most in motion controls it's lag and accuracy... Accuracy can't be determined until we have the products in our hands, but from what I saw, Sony's motion controls seem much more promising. I'll take a lagless controller over no controller with lag anyday. The worst thing that could possibly happen to motion controls is lag. I'm not saying Natal lags (although I do remember reading an article about how there will be minor lag), all I'm saying is that from what I've seen from Sony's motion controls, there is no lag. Here's the Natal lag article

http://www.n4g.com/dev/News...

[beans]

"In fact, I can't imagine anyone I know playing Golf or Tennis on the Wii and feeling comfortable without holding anything that is, roughly, the same shape as the Wiimote anyway."

But I can imagine and for all we know there will be periphals.

"1. The Wii was cheap enough to pick up and now, if you get one of the resort packs that are quite common, comes with everything you need to get started."

Price will be a factor which I'm sure MS is well aware of. If the price is right will you have a change of heart? Or what's it going to take for you to just be quiet and wait for more info like the rest of us?

"The 360 is going to cost the console + Natal, because there is no way Microsoft will sell the whole package at what they're selling the console at alone. If they could afford that they'd have another price cut to bounce back after the PS3 came down in price."

I have no idea what they can afford to do as I'm sure you don't either.

"2. My first question would be "What does it do that the Wii doesn't?

And if your only answer was "Well...there are no controllers" I would laugh in your face for trying to tell me that is worth paying for a whole new console over."

It's going to all come down to the games, price, advertisement, and overall experience. No controller better games and visuals are a start but I'm sure it will do many things beyond the Wiimote. Let's just wait and see before we start spreading unnecessary fud.

[Qui-Gon Jim]

You said : "I really liked the look of Natal but the more I hear about it the more I think it's going to dissapoint [sic]. If people just let it go and wait and see then it could easily impress but if it's being hailed as the "xbox savior" then it cant ever live up to expectations."

I think you're onto something there. It's the same problem Sony has had with a few things, Killzone 2 being one of them. Fans hype it up beyond reasonable expectations, then, however good the final product may be, it is seen as a disappointment by some because it didn't live up to the outrageous hype.

[Saaking]

Yes

[creatchee]

People said that Avatar was going to fail too... Whoops!

I'm not really sold on the idea myself as something that *I* would use, but I know a lot of people who would probably really dig Natal. I think that a lot of the casual gamers are going to see this as "the new Wii" or something to that effect.

As always, time will tell - but to say it has failed OR succeeded just yet is jumping the gun a bit...

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

Controller less gaming with lag will of course fail.

[HardcoreGamer]

OF NATAL RUNNING HERE WITH HD GAMES NEXT GENERATION VISUALS USING MOTION CONTROL

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Traveler]

Natal looks really cool and I think it holds promise. Let's just wait and see. I'm excited for it.

[The Lazy One]

what happens when your controller starts picking up button presses you don't want it to? When your body is the controller, you have to treat it like a controller.

@article
One thing the 360 and PS3 both have that the Wii doesn't is a large hardcore audience. They will both get casual games. That's just the way it's going to happen. BUT! they will have a hardcore audience that's at least open to the idea of motion controlled hardcore game.

@Sony's motion control. Sony missed an opportunity by not sticking an analogue stick in both hands while u use the motion control. That would make a hybrid control scheme that I really think would get the huge benefit from the smooth movement of an analogue stick with the accuracy of a mouse/pointer.

[Sonyslave3]

WTF so i guess sony wand already fail too.

[Pennywise]

Get the torches!!! Natal is gamings savior!! HOW DARE HE....

lol.

[Snbrdr166]

Interesting Piece

[Pillage05]

Indeed, he brings up a good point that the 'casual' audience is likely pretty much already tapped. how many of those casuals are really going to go out and by another console+natal(which is likely to be $100 if not more)

natal and ps3 eye/wand/whatchamacallit may surprise me, but I doubt it. they both have a very very very hard road ahead of them. I doubt there are many developers out there who are gonna put in the time on either that is really needed to give us what we really want out of them. Why would they when they could just go to the wii which is cheaper to develop for anyway and has a much larger install base.

one other thing to worry about is the console life of the ps3/360.. i mean do we really know how long it's going to be before we're freaking out and arguing over which is better wiiHD/ps4/xbox(insert number)

I wouldn't conclude all ready that natal is teh failzorz, but it does have a lot of challenges. should be interesting to see what goes down in the next year though.

my only hope is that atleast one console sticks with a controller primarily next gen. ok, my rant is getting out of control, thanks to whoever read this far :P

[Sonyslave3]

hahhahhahah so let me get this straight the reason why he think natal is going to fail is because casual gamers.

They don’t go in game shops, they don’t read magazines that are likely to be advertising Natal and they don’t watch television at a time Microsoft would consider running ads.

They have absolutely no way to find out about the Natal project and, short of hearing the Wii Golf course is being paved over to make way for Microsoft sport and Natal health spa, they wouldn’t react even if they had.

lol okay then please explain to me how wii owners know when a mario game is release.

[green]

why do so called hardcore gamers paint casual gamers as idiots?

@ Below: I did read your article and it was full of speculation. But let me tell you something, nobody knows exactly what the casual gamer wants apart from the casual gamers themselves because they are one hell of an unpredictable bunch. ANother suggestion will be to to have given your article a suitable title that mirrors exactly what is in the content. like say 'Natals very steep road ahead'.

[matgrowcott]

I wouldn't normally do this...

But you've completely missed the point.

I didn't say natal would fail. I said it would fail at it's primary function, which is to grab the casual crowd. The reason it won't grab the casual crowd? Because the Wii has everything most casual gamers want out of the box and, since most of the people who would be tempted into buying Natal already have been tempted into buying the Wii, what is the point?

But I congratulate you on your excellent article-twisting flame. Excellent job.

[tehReaper]

matgrowcott

I think you're underestimating Microsoft's ability to advertise.

Also, if Sony and Microsoft both offer HD consoles WITH the capabilities of the Wii, what's the point of the Wii? I only see Nintendo franchises standing in the way of Natal and Sony's Wand, not the casual market.

[matgrowcott]

'Also, if Sony and Microsoft both offer HD consoles WITH the capabilities of the Wii, what's the point of the Wii? I only see Nintendo franchises standing in the way of Natal and Sony's Wand, not the casual market.'

Anybody who is into their technology enough to care about HD graphics has probably already invested in a PS3 or XBOX. Their is a slim chance they will follow games sites casually to find out about new things for them and may know about Natal.

The truth is though, for someone who has bought a Wii already, a massive chunk of the Casual market Microsoft seems to be after, and uses it as their main console, they're unlikely to be swayed by shinier graphics. If that was the case, they'd have bought a HD consolel in the first place.

People love the Wii because it's easy to use, extremely family friendly and has a great offline multi-player component. If it were just about waggling a controller, the craze would have died down years ago.

[4point7BillionLoss]

That maybe by the time NATAL is released that a lot of wii owners might by bored of their wii's by then?

NATAL (if microsoft can pull it off as good as some of the demo video's) offers a much more intruiging experience compared to the PS3's wand which is almost an exact copy of the wii's controller and hence not offering anything substatially different?

The xbox360 is now cheaper than Wii was when it was launched and so it will still have the appeal that all casual gamers had when the wii came out - i.e. a cheap fun console. The wii still has the momentum only because there is no real alternative ... PS3 and Xbox simply don't cater for the casual market yet. The PS3's direction with their wand technology is to add a fancy controller but for hardcore games like FPS - whereas NATAL's direction is really to try bring the whole casual gaming experience to xbox. It's a major difference.

Only if microsoft manage to perfect the hardware & software will be be possible to be a success (somethign they have the rest of the year to do) but I think come next christmas there will be loads of kids already bored with their 5 year old wii's looking for the next fun thing ... and the only option on the table is looking like NATAL.

just a thought.

[matgrowcott]

@Green

Sorry, I didn't mean you. I meant the guy above you.

@BillionLoss

You're right, of course, and this will happen in some cases. But a lot of the kids currently playing Wii will end up being core gamers in the long run so they're likely to end up getting a different console, and if the 360 is cheap enough with Natal included then alot of kids will be waking up with it on Christmas morning.

But that depends on the price. Little Johnny who doesn't know anything about gaming would be as happy with the 360 alone as he would be with Natal included if the parents can't see any logical reason to spend huge amounts of money on something that is too similar to the Wii.

The other side of the spectrum is the adults who bought into the Wii. Either way, whether they still use their console religiously or if they just use it at parties, these adults are unlikely to want to buy another console...especially if they don't have time to play the Wii they have now.

But all this depends on how much Natal costs. I'm sure Microsoft is aware that if they want to sell this to the Wii crowd they can't sell it at too much of a high price point. They need to sell a console as well as an add-on which we can be fairly certain will bump the price up.

In the mean time, time will tell.

[Roper316]

Are gonna be a hit with MANBLA

[Kainewynd2]

This is a great opinion piece and I find myself agreeing whole-heartedly with his assessment of Natal's target market and how it will fail.

Does this mean that the rest of the gaming world is going to ignore such a cool new piece of technology? Probably not, but people like the my parents or your grandparents pic aren't going to give two sh*ts if they can do DDR in real-time.

[Anon1974]

I don't blame Microsoft or Sony going after Nintendo's mountain of cash the casuals bring in, but I question what kind of impact Natal or the wands will have.

Get into the head of the casual player for a second. You see the Wii, something all your office buddies wives are playing, and the kids love it. It's about $200. And it has Mario. Everyone loves Mario. Who didn't play Super Mario, or Mario Kart, or Super Mario Brothers?

On the other hand you have the 360. The cheapest model is $200 (how are the other models different again? I don't really know. Does one not break as often? I heard they break all the time.) You have to buy an extra motion controller. That'll add maybe $50 to $70, plus if you ever want to go online there's subscription fees. And I heard it breaks. And what games would I play? Does it even have anything kid friendly? Screw it, I'll get a Wii.

That's the thing. Casuals know the wii. They know Mario. They don't know the 360, and unless Microsoft really hammers them with Natal advertising they'll never know the 360 has motion control. It's not just the price, the 360 was cheaper than the Wii for months and couldn't touch the Wii's numbers. This is a matter of simplicity for the casuals, and the Wii will win out versus a Natal equipped 360.

I recently had a friend and his wife (both haven't played a videogame since back in SuperNES days) buy a Wii for Christmas. They asked my advice, and my advice was - don't get a Wii. Didn't matter. They didn't even look at another console. Didn't have to. The Wii was what all their couple friends had. They just wanted to know what extra stuff they needed to buy. If Natal were released last year, I know for a fact they would have said to me "What's Natal?" with a blank look on their faces and still bought a Wii and some Mario game.

There's no reason the Wii should be outselling the 360 right now, but it is. The 360 is ten times the gaming machine the Wii is. How on earth do people think Natal will change this? If it can't beat the Wii by being the better system, how do they think that being a better system with a new addon is going to sway anyone?

[Qui-Gon Jim]

I believe that Natal will bring some really cool stuff to games, but I have been saying from the start that its target audience is people who probably already have a Wii, and those people may not be interested in getting anything else. I also think that its best uses in core games will be things similar to what the sixaxis does, though a couple steps better. Things like improving immersion by having the player act out pulling levers, turning cranks, throwing grenades, etc. Strangely, the possibility I am most excited about is something I wouldn't use: something like "EA Sports Active" using full-body motion tracking. I think that type of thing could be THE thing to really set Natal apart.

All Microsoft has to do to call Natal a success, though, is give Halo: Reach some Natal exclusive features and it will sell a couple million within a month.

[iceman06]

This started as a speculation piece. It was NOT intended to be fact. It was one man's explanation as to why HE thinks that NATAL could fail. His speculation is based on MS intentions of capturing the casual market. You can't argue that the Wii is the BEAST of the casual market. There are people that play Wii...that have NEVER played video games before. That is BIG! Both Sony and MS are trying to take bites out of that market share. That's pretty much what this business is about. How much of another company's thunder can you steal each generation. That is a HUGE challenge.
Do I think it will fail? Probably not, because there are enough hardcore 360 owners to support it even without the casuals carrying the support for it. Do I think that MS or Sony will make significant strides to cut into the casual pie that Nintendo Wii currently has...probably not as well. That is just too huge of a mountain to climb. But, I hope for all of them to succeed to keep the competition thriving so that we gamers get the benefit of the competition...GREAT GAMING EXPERIENCES!!!

[MaximusPrime]

Natal hasnt been released yet.

Why not wait till it releases then do your article.

i hate articles with "has >insert here< failed?"

[Kainewynd2]

It's about the marketing of the product and target demographic. The idea here is that it doesn't matter if the product kicks major behind, it's the analysis of what will happen if they continue down their current marketing avenue; i.e. 'casual' gamers.

At least reply with something that indicates you may have taken the time to read the article before freaking out over the title...

[Godmars290]

The thing with marketing is that we're talking about something that was hyped last year and is going to be released late this year. With no games shown for it in-between. Can't see how it hasn't fallen out of the casual gamer's mindset while the hardcore are keeping it alive by inserting it into any title they can think of.

When honest games for it are finally shown there's no way someone's not getting disappointed.

[Qui-Gon Jim]

Much of Natal's target audience doesn't yet know that it exists, and won't know anything about it until they see TV commercials at its launch. Those people would not be bothered by a small amount of lag that would be game-breaking for us core gamers (assuming Natal does lag), and will only see impartial coverage of it on the news, not from gaming websites. The problem Microsoft has is that those people may be perfectly happy with their Wiis and not interested in buying anything new. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Godmars290]

You forget the Jimmy Fallen show with Natal? All of the 2009 magazine articles that listed it as the big thing of 2010?

Though I'm sure the general public wont. Especially if MS has to downgrade what they showed it was supposedly capable of at E3 2009.

[Qui-Gon Jim]

I didn't forget about Jimmy Fallon, i clearly remember that nobody could keep the car on the road because of the lag. I actually did forget about the magazine articles, and you are right there. I guess what i'm saying is that the marketing for Natal has barely begun, and is halted for now. We will see a blitz for it around the time of launch, i expect. I will agree with you, though. For the "casual gamers" Natal is largely forgotten about for now. A short spurt of hype, then nothing for them to see for probably a year.

I also agree that a lot of people will be disappointed in Natal, if only because they are overhyping it themselves. I think it will be really cool, but not revolutionary.

[Doc Sony]

Yeah, I think it is already a huge failure, the proof is on the bottom of Kudo's sneakers.

[Somnipotent]

lol @ the ravi drums picture.

kinda funny coming from a site called NONSENSE GAMER.

[Godmars290]

Not that its a proper example, just find the reversal of mindsets oddly amusing.

[Raiko_the_Poet]

I'm excited for natal and I hate motion control games. It's just good tech and I'm excited for it and hope it's very successful

[Kainewynd2]

I want it to kick ass... I'm really looking forward to it, but I can't say for certain what types of games I'd like to play with it. :\

[Socomer 1979]

it was a look at me tactic and failed to hold gamers interest.
poor bastards will be waiting forever for natal to release and thats what microsoft is banking on.

[tehReaper]

That's the stupidest comment I've read today. Are you high? What would be the point in showing something that won't come out? Microsoft can't make money if they don't release it.

[robotnik]

Natas has failed, yes.

[we won]

Because you are a retarded a$$ PS3 fanboy spending all his time hating on the 360 like you are a 10 year old boy defending his favorite toys.

[va_bank]

No matter how cool something is, it's not guaranteed to be a financial success. I'm sceptical about this because

a.) By the time natal hits the shelves, the Wii craze may be over. The console still sells, but the software for it is coming to a grindinding halt(Everyone I know has a Wii, but very few people have games for it other then Wii Fit and Guitar Hero.)

I personally beleive that casual gaming is a fad and in 2-3 years gaming will be back to normal, i.e. all games produced will target the core gamers - us. Which brings me to...

b.) Core gamers. We don't play games 15-30 minutes at a time. We game for hours a day. Motion game controllers, be it Wii, Natal or Sony wand are not condusive to this type of gaming. Doing 3-4 rpetitive motions for hours at a time is tough for even the most conditioned athletes and will be a quick turn-off for an average gamer.

[The_Zeitgeist]

"Core gamers. We don't play games 15-30 minutes at a time. We game for hours a day."

Dude you are a hardcore gamer if you are playing for hours a day. I consider myself a core gamer and I only play a max of two hours per day. Sure sometimes on weekends I'll get into a 5 hour gaming session but that is not the norm.

[va_bank]

No, I'm just like you. 2 hours a day (after kids are asleep) maybe 3 on a weekend. What I was saying is that most casual gamers (Wii fit users, little kids and seniors) gaming sessions probably average way under an hour.

I'm on my mountain bike all summer and snowboard in the winter, but I find 30 minutes of Wii tennis exausting. My point is that 2 hours of gaming with motion devices is an extreme form of excercise, not relaxation which most people are looking for in games.

[matgrowcott]

Va_Bank

On new years eve I went round my grandparents house around 9PM and 4 of them were playing an 18 round of golf. Come 12 we had to turn it off because there will still rounds to play.

They'd been playing a while when I got there.

I wouldn't even call them gamers, but they're putting more time into my hobby then I am.

[keysy420]

be the first next gen motion

[DelbertGrady]

Depends on what its software will be like.

[monkey602]

Exactly! The PSeye for example. We heard about it for weeks, About the amazing motion technology and its noise reduction microphones and so on. Since then Sony have released like 3 mediocre games for it!
Now obviously Microsoft arent going to sink everything they have invested into this by doing the same but if all they are going to release are the same party type games that are already available through the Wii, Then Natal is very much doomed!

[Cueil]

Try thinking outside your box... it's hard to try and imagine the kind of software that could be made to seperate this from the Wii... but I'll shoot out a couple of ideas... the first is Belly Dancing Trainer... since Natal can track something like 46 points on your body it should easily be able to instuct you up to a certain level. I'm not that familure with it but maybe intermediat before a real instuctor would be needed to futher refine your movements. The next is Couple Dancing... I know it would require a decent size area to move in, but this would be something that would help those men who don't want to take lessons get over that fear.

[matgrowcott]

I like your ideas, but I have a couple of thoughts on them.

Belly Dancing training would be a super niche title, unlike something like Yoga which is very 'in' right now. It'd would be awesome for the people who love Belly Dancing (and a great work out for the rest of us), don't get me wrong. But I can't imagine a developer actively going out there way to make a game like that when a yoga game would instantly sell more and be easier to make...

Your point is basically: 'Wait to see what software is coming up' and I completely agree. For gamers and people who follow the industry this will be the obvious choice over the Wii (If it works as microsoft says it will) and a good addition to the Xbox because, as I say in the article, there is really only so much shovelware they can put out before they realise they are still tailing behind the Wii.

When that happens there'll be a bigger influx of core games. Again, this is presuming Microsoft are after some of the casual pie.

[Mikeyy]

"Belly Dancing Trainer"

WTF? Do not want. The PS3 and 360 don't need these craptastic games, Keep them isolated on the Wii. I do not CARE if the wii outsells PS360 combined, all the REAL games are on ps360 for a reason.

Belly Dancing Trainer. Seriously dude?

[basicsameh514]

I DONT GIVE A SH** IF IT LOWERS THE WII SALES THEN IM HAPPY

[Somnipotent]

why? because the wii hurt your feelings?

[Mikeyy]

Who cares about the wii sales?

The Wii isnt a threat. If the wii was taking all the AAA titles then we'll speak.

[creatchee]

Many hardcore gamers see the Wii in the same vein that heavy metal fans see so-called "commercial rock" - in a dismissing and contemptuous manner.

But, whether they choose to admit it or not, the Wii *IS* a current-gen video game console and *IS* number one in overall sales. My Wii collects dust in the living room for the most part while I'm on my PS3 or 360 (except on family game nights), but for a LOT of people, it is their console of choice.

[The_Zeitgeist]

Has Nonsensegamer.com already run out of fresh ideas for articles or are they just trolling for hits.

[Kainewynd2]

Would it make you feel better if it was entitled: "How Project Natal May or May Not Be Better than the Wii at capturing the Casual gamer market"?

I'm sorry, but the title is completely appropriate... it's not like the "Obama is a Racist!" headlines that ran a few months back...

@Roper316 -- Touché. Your wit is immense.

[Roper316]

but he is a racist that is true

[Mikeyy]

IDK if Obama is a racist, but he sure is a Liar. That much is fact. At least in his speech yesterday he had to balls to finally call Terrorists, Terrorists. Still I was expecting a firing of Janet Napalitano for that incredible failure.

[Roper316]

it's gonna be funny when MS abandons the core gamer in favor of the casual and then all those xbox fanboys have no choice but to get a PS3 to play core games instead of kickball with Milo.

[Somnipotent]

kick ball with milo sounds fun... i wonder if they'll make a peripheral for it. i can see all the youtube clips showing up now with busted LCD screens.

[monkey602]

Somnipotent thank you! I've been trying to think of the word peripheral for a half hour now and it was really annoying me :P

[ZombieAutopsy]

Xbox fanboys will buy it because they're all casual gamers with games like Halo and Fable.

[Traveler]

Pfft! I play all kinds of shooters online: Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, Modern Warfare 2, Halo 3...and Halo is pretty much as hardcore as they come. The gameplay is extremely nuanced and deep. You have to actually play all these games to know what I am talking about.

[ZombieAutopsy]

lol ive owned and played everyone of those games. Halo is the weakest of all of them, its just because it was all xbox had last gen (this one too) so xbox fanboys hang onto it and try to make it seem like something more than it is. I admit I played Halo 3 for a little while and it was fun for about a week but then everything after that just got so boring because the game seem dated. I'm hoping for Halo Reach to be something great and not like past Halo's but im not holding my breath.

[CWMR]

-Yeah right. Killzone 2 is the one that is boring and simplistic. No vehicles, fewer weapons, balance isn't as good, etc. You obviously don't know what makes a good shooter.

In any case, only a couple thousand people play Killzone 2, where hundreds of thousands or millions play Halo 3. There is no MLG surrounding Killzone 2 either. I'd take Halo 3 over Killzone 2 anyday.-

[ZombieAutopsy]

Just because more people play something doesn't mean its in anyway better, look at it this way...billions of people listen to Britney Spears and only millions listen to Metallica but who would you say has more talent and better music.

[Solidus187-SCMilk]

I think would be to release a Gun controller. I would love to see games built around a gun controller.

I imagine a game kinda like time crisis but you would actually take cover and hide behind things in the game world. Maybe throw in some hand to hand combat.

Ive never been into motion controls so im waiting to see what they do with it.

Basically I think they will make a FPS where the gun is in your hand instead of on the TV. Thats what im waiting for.

Calling something a failure OR success before its available or even before we know what kind of games it will have is an article looking for hits. A hit wont come from me, cause we have the same little info on natal and Ive never been one to put other opinions before my own. Especially when that persons opinion is based off of the very little info we have on natal and even less info on the software.

[matgrowcott]

You should have read the article.

We're not talking about Natal being a financial or even a critical failure. In most cases those things are so hard to guess weeks, even months in advance...As you say, I have no chance of writing an article on that.

I'm talking about why Microsoft, who seem to be aiming for the casual market by using mini-games and 'fun for five' applications in all it's press information concerning Natal, will inevitably lose out in the casual market to Nintendo.

[Solidus187-SCMilk]

that is impossible considering there are at least 20 million more wiis then there are 360s and a 360 is required for natal. Its obvious that natal will never have as many casuals on it as the wii has right now.

So basically your saying its a failure because it cant do the impossible and sell natals to more people then there are 360s in peoples houses.

So you say that natal "will inevitably lose out in the casual market to Nintendo." HUH. NINTENDO HAS THE CASUAL MARKET ALREADY. So you call natal a failure because it wont do something that is impossible for it to do. Natal cant loose out in the casual market because if natal brings just 1 casual motion control user then the 360 will have a bigger casual motion audience then before. There is no motion controller casual audience on 360, with natal there will be.

Natal is microsoft trying to get some of the casual market and it will most likely do that. Sure it wont take over for nintendo, but that doesnt make it a failure.

The wii has actually opened the door for natal, as alot of people will be comfortable with motion games. Alot of people who enjoy the wii might now try to play games on natal since they wont be required to use the 360 pad.

Ignoring the wii I think that natal will be a success for microsoft in that they will finally have something to offer for the casuals who like motion controls. Currently there is nothing like the wii on 360.

edit-- you wrote "And I think this is the case with many casual gamers. They don’t go in game shops, they don’t read magazines that are likely to be advertising Natal and they don’t watch television at a time Microsoft would consider running ads."

That sounds like most people I know who own a 360 or a PS3. Fact of the mater is that most console gamers are casuals, period. And that natal can be a success without the wii as it is different.

We really need to see the software before claiming this will or wont appeal to casuals. The real question is will it also appeal to hardcore gamers who prefer controllers for most games.

I know Id use a controller but alternate controls for regular games could be cool with natal. Also the natal developed games could go far beyond what the wii is capable of.

[yoghurt]

I just can't see where a controller-less game would be fun, I mean, seriously I am trying to imagine any scenario where I am playing a gae and would actually prefer NOT to have a controller. And the scenarios I have seen (that ball game, basically eye toy did that years ago, and the burnout demo, playing a driving game with your hands in mid-air??) just makes no sense to me.

But, clearly it's not me they are after, somebody out there must love the idea of this

[ApocalypseShadow]

1.no feedback

for all the bashing sony got for having a lawsuit and no rumble in sixaxis(helped on by microsoft) http://www.google.com/url?s...

what kind of fun is having no rumble and no controller?
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

2.we have seen that it still doesn't recognize reactions as we see in this video from TGS 2009:

(25 seconds in,THE PHANTOM KICK that natal doesn't even recognize)
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
(THAT'S ONLY THREE MONTHS AGO)

no games shown,no release date.no accuracy.

so yes,it has failed so far in that we are seeing nothing but smoke and mirrors,controlled celebrity demos and tons of hype.

[Rowsdower]

Failure refers to the state or condition of not meeting a desirable or intended objective, and may be viewed as the opposite of success.

Has natal already not met its desirable or intended objective?

The answer is no.

That was easy.

[evilmonkey501]

My opinion is this: I like to sit back when I play my games. I get a funny sense of dejavu when I see NATAL. Cant I already do this on the ps3/ps2 with these games?:

2010 * Gran Turismo 5 (For Head Tracking)

2009
* Bomberman Ultra (streams video to other players when you win a tournament)
* Buzz!: Quiz World
* Tiger Woods 10
* Eyedentify
* EyePet
* Fight Night Round 4

2008

* Buzz!: Quiz TV (compatible with Playstation 2 EyeToy)
* Burnout Paradise[17] (Used to share personal snapshot after winning/losing against other players online. (Also compatible with Playstation 2 EyeToy))
* Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 [18] (Used to upload personal image for the character)
* High Stakes on the Vegas Strip: Poker Edition[19] (used to see others)
* LittleBigPlanet (Used to create levels, also compatible with PlayStation 2 EyeToy)
* FaceBreaker (Used to upload personal image for the character)
* PES 2009 (Used to upload personal image for the character, 'Become a Legend' mode)
* SingStar Vol. 2 (Used to record video and take snapshots and upload online)

2007

* Aqua Vita/Aquatopia
* Ember[10]
* Mesmerize - January 17, 2008 (North America)[20]
* Operation Creature Feature[21] - October 25, 2007[5]
* The Eye of Judgment[2] (Uses Playstation Eye on a stand and playing mat with cards to simulate card battles)
* The Trials of Topoq
* Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08[22]
* Tori-Emaki
* SingStar[23]
* Sky Blue[10]
* Snakeball[21]
* PES 2008[24]

* 2003
o EyeToy: Play
o EyeToy: Groove
* 2004
o Disney Move (Ubisoft)
o EyeToy: Antigrav
o EyeToy: Monkey Mania
o EyeToy: Play 2
o Nicktoons Movin' (THQ)
o Sega SuperStars (Sega)
o U Move Super Sports (Konami)
* 2005
o Clumsy Shumsy (Phoenix Games Ltd. [UK/NL])
o EyeToy: Chat - a videophone system for use with the network adaptor
o EyeToy: EduKids
o EyeToy: Kinetic
o EyeToy: Operation Spy (known as SpyToy in Europe)
o EyeToy: Play 3

* 2006
o Eyetoy: Kinetic Combat
o Eyetoy: Play Sports
o Rhythmic Star (Namco)
* 2007
o EyeToy: Astro Zoo
* 2008
o EyeToy Play: Hero
o EyeToy Play: PomPom Party

Enhanced with EyeToy

These games may be used with the EyeToy optionally. They typically have an "Enhanced with EyeToy" or "EyeToy Enhanced" label on the box.

* AFL Premiership 2005 (IR Gurus, 2005)
* AFL Premiership 2006 (IR Gurus, 2006)
* AFL Premiership 2007 (IR Gurus, 2007)
* AND 1 Streetball
* Buzz! The Music Quiz (Sony, late 2005)
* Buzz! The Big Quiz (Sony, March 2006)
* CMT Presents: Karaoke Revolution Country
* Dance Dance Revolution Extreme (North America) (Konami, 2004) - EyeToy mini games, players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* DDR Festival Dance Dance Revolution (Konami, 2004) - EyeToy mini games, players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* Dancing Stage Fusion (Konami, 2004) - EyeToy mini games, players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* Dance Dance Revolution Extreme 2 (Konami, 2005) - EyeToy mini games, players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* Dancing Stage Max (Konami, 2005) - EyeToy mini games, players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* Dance Dance Revolution Strike (Konami, 2006) - EyeToy mini games, players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* Dance Dance Revolution SuperNova (North America) (Konami, 2006) - EyeToy mini games, players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* Dance Dance Revolution SuperNova (Konami, 2007) - EyeToy mini games, players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* Dancing Stage SuperNova (Europe) (Konami, 2007) - EyeToy mini games, players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* Dance Dance Revolution SuperNova 2 (North America) (Konami, 2007) - EyeToy mini games, players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* Dance Dance Revolution SuperNova 2 (Konami, 2008) - EyeToy mini games, players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* Dance Dance Revolution X (North America) (Konami, 2008) - EyeToy mini games, players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* Dance Factory - players can optionally see themselves dancing, additional mode with 2 camera targets.
* DT Racer (XS Games, 2005) - photo taken by EyeToy can be used as a custom avatar
* Formula One 05 (Sony, mid 2004)
* Flow: Urban Dance Uprising
* Gaelic Games: Football
* Get On Da Mic (Eidos, 2004) - players can see their performance
* Gretzky NHL 2005
* Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (EA, 2004) - features EyeToy minigames
* Jackie Chan Adventures (Sony, 2004) - features Eye Toy minigames
* Karaoke Revolution Party
* Karaoke Revolution Presents: American Idol
* Lemmings (Team 17, 2006)
* LMA Manager 2005 (Codemasters, 2004) - players can have their pictures on in-game newspapers
* MLB 2005
* MLB 2006 - use to create a player
* MLB '06: The Show
* MLB '07: The Show
* MLB '08: The Show *MLB '09: The Show
* MLB '09: The Show NBA 07
* Racing Battle: C1 Grand Prix (Genki, 2005) - Used to capture textures to be used as car stickers in the bodypaint interface[8]
* SingStar series (Sony, 2004-2008) - singers can optionally see themselves when singing
* The Sims 2
* Stuart Little 3: Big Photo Adventure
* The Polar Express (THQ, 2004)
* The Sims 2: Pets
* The Urbz: Sims in the City (EA, 2004) - players can have their faces on in-game billboards
* This Is Football 2005
* Tony Hawk's American Wasteland (Activision) - Used to import the player's face onto a created skater.
* Tony Hawk's Underground (Activision/Neversoft, 2003) -Player can capture an image of their face and map it onto their character.
* YetiSports Arctic Adventures (JoWood Productions, 2005) - EyeToy multi-player games
* Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? Party Edition (Eidos, late 2006) - players can have their 'mugshots' on a winning check
* World Tour Soccer 2006

[Jamescagney]

Cool, a list! I love lists!

[acere]

ownage time?

[gololo]

well tell u what....at least for racing games, id never, EVER pick natal/wand/wii wheel over a force feed back wheel with pedals....am i the only one that found Jimmi Fallon's natal demo of Burnout Paradise/Natal to be completely retarded? I for one won't jump into the natal/wand/wii wagon....i think motion sensing controls are over-rated...but that is just me...there will always be a market for natal/wand if it is correctly marketed.

[CryWolf]

No Natal is going to be the biggest failure since the Sega X32, Sega CD and the Sega Saturn, the Nintendo Wii Motion Controller really change the gaming industry at the time but now even developers are having problems using the Wii remote controller with there games. Natal is trying to build on that by using your body as the controller BUT NOBODY WOULD WANT TO DO THAT WITH A GAME ALL DAY!

[CryWolf]

Natal will failure in 2010 lieving xbot without a motion controller and who in their right mine would buy in to this bull using motion sensor camera just like the eyetoy with games like Halo, Gears and Fable this is ridiculous clearly isn't going to work.

[ksquared]

If the natal can really do what it claims then if you wanted to play a golf game couldn't you just hold a golf club or a broom stick? You could go to wally mart and buy a 30 cent water gun and use that for a shooting game.

As "cool" as natal sounds I can see it being used for non gaming applications. Minority Report comes to mind.

Whether it fails or not depends on the marketing plain and simple. All i know is that my grandparents hate anything associated with Microsoft and they all have Wii's.

[Bigpappy]

He pretty much stated that he hated Natal from the time he saw it. Ofcorse he would want it to fail. I would advise the writer to stop with the baseless blogs, and wait until there is something there to criticize. As of now you are just being a fanboy.

[Kainewynd2]

"When Natal was announced, I cringed. Not because it was a motion sensing peripheral but because it was obvious what they were trying to do: crack the 'casual' market.

The way they were selling it on stage, the applications that they showed us all reeked of "we want our own Wii and this is the way we're going to do it." (Imagine that same sentence but in an old folks' home. There's a feature film in there somewhere.)"

That's from the excerpt up above and if you even read past the first sentence, you'll see where the concern lies.

Concern. Not dismissal, anger, or even annoyance.

If you'd read the article itself, you would find that he certainly does not detest or hate Natal--in fact, he says quite the opposite:

"This is a good thing for core gamers.

While I’m in no rush to pick up Natal, or the Playstation Wands for that matter, there is a reward that comes out of Microsoft failing to cash in on much of the casual audience: the core audience will end up getting a great little add-on."

Why on earth are you even posting? Go RTFA then come back with some constructive criticism. Those that do are actually having quite an interesting conversation triggered by this piece.

One more thing... prior to that statement I quoted above, he quite presciently said this:

"If you’ve read this far without clicking off to flame me on N4G then you’ll be happy to read this next sentence."

[ndibu]

SWEET! Hollow men getting on your nerves, nameless hero of fable? Wave you hand forward and watch then fly off from a force push will spell. halo reach: spartans! grenade! throwing grenade hand gesture!

[thehitman]

Will be as successful as the EyeToy. They are exactly the same Natal just has the MS gloss over it.

[bjornbear]

when it haven't even been released. stupid...

[evilmonkey501]

but will YOU buy it?

[devilhunterx]

So how long before N'Gai Croal calls Natal a racist device?

[gumgum99]

Haven't seen that guy in a while...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[CAPT IRISH]

lets see it first

[N4BmpS]

When I first seen Natal I was thinking "Meh" nothing special, then I seen Milo, I was still meh but with a side of WTF that's kinda amazing. But I still feel that it maybe too much, using the body. Too me it came off as a Nintendo wannabe, but Microsoft has the Cahonas and the money, to pull a stunt like this,; it might be a success though.

[Platinum_k]

but then again there are a lot of ignorant little kids out there that are easily impressed by a fail-technolggy they havnt seen before

so maybe not the first few weeks

but i just cant wait to see people responce on how stupid it really is

MUAHHAHA!

BOOM!

[Meryl]

for those of you who don't know Natal was designed to be an Input Device for operating Systems, so of course it really is not going to be as good as MS are hyping it to be, it will have as much success as the original Eye Toy did, but it will not win the console war and it will not allow it to dominate over Sony either, sony have the PS Wand out early to combat Natal, by the time Natal comes it will be too late

[Traveler]

Wow, gypsy, can you read my fortune as well?

I don't really want to argue with a gypsy fortuneteller, but I think you are wrong.

[AliTheBrit19]

Nope :)

Glad we could clear that up

[Shendow]

Natal fails until their is a reason it isn't, all we know is that it can be use for the Xbox menu an play simple games like what are on Wii/PS2. Other then that an being able to use it for chatting, their isn't anything else.

So until Microsoft starts showing a reason why it is good, it fails until that day.

[PhoenixDevil]

I think i may have just been underestimating natal, and i think alot of us have been missing a big point

people on here writing comments and reading articals about games are hardcore gamers for the most part, the majority of us aren't fussed about natal we like our controllers and at first i was like alot of others thinking well all the casual gamers have a wii and no casuals will buy another console + natal add on, but and this is the point i was talking about missing, there are casual gamers with just a 360

a co worker of mine has just a 360 is not a hard core gamer and does not keep up with the gaming industry/news/realeses, but enjoys his games and will buy them and im sure he's not alone, microsoft knows there are these kinda of gamers (im gona name them, part time gamers)

now when the advertising comes round I think he's gona be one of the targets of microsoft, its clever, now i dont think mocrosoft are going for the wii's audience i think its more to do with making money out of current part time gamers

coz a casual gamer with a wii aint gona pay 400 bucks (guess) for a new console and natal but a part time gamer may pay 100 - 150 for a 'revalotionary' add on

maybe im wrong and looking at this wrong but i think microsoft has been very sly about this and is playing it rather well

PS doubt anyones read this conisdering how many comments there are but thanks if you have

[matgrowcott]

You've got a great point. Nothing is in black and white.

I'm wondering now whether or not part time gamers could make Natal profitable. Are there really that many out there? I know plenty of people who own an Xbox and don't really play it, but what would it take for them to shell out money on Natal?

All interesting questions.