Kotaku- BioWare On The Decline Of The JRPG

Kotaku- Final Fantasy aside, Japanese role-playing games simply don't command the respect (or sales) they once did in the West. You may have an opinion on this! That's great. So do BioWare.

With Mass Effect and Dragon Age both leading the way as far as Western RPGs are concerned, they're a company well-placed to know what's good, and what's not so good, about the Japanese entries in the field.

[DrRobotnik]

Well, when you release all your Rpgs on a shooter heavy system and ignore the system that sells rpgs, then yeah, I guess they won't sell. Idiots.

[Simon_Brezhnev]

comment from article

"This is all pretty funny considering that Bioware shamelessly ripped Dragon Age's tactical combat features directly from Final Fantasy XII" LOL

It is real funny how bioware are so arrogant. Dragon Age's is a good game but no evolution like most fantasy WRPGs here's the formula elves, dwarves, or humans. The Witcher is my favorite WRPG.

[Tony P]

^^^And then the comment below it refutes it somewhat. The only thing you can consider "ripped-off" is the gambit-like system for enabling scripts (which themselves have been around forever on PC). And even that guy was wrong because the fighting isn't WoW, it's like every isometric RPG ever invented.

[raztad]

So far I know, the JRPG genre has been evolving constantly. From turn based to a faster action packed gameplay. FFVII (PSP), FFXII, FFXIII, WKC, Star Ocean 4, etc etc have different gameplay styles. WKC is specially interesting because it got some MMO-like with big cities, a lot of free roaming and online. Demons Souls is crazy innovative and rewarding.

It seems to me Bioware while trying to hype ME2 is getting a bit uppity and Turning 10.

[DaTruth]

If they say this enough times, the sheepish people of the western nations will come to believe it and no longer buy JRPG's! Than we will spend all our money on western developers games.

Doesn't help that Square is almost sacrificing their company to get people to buy the 360.

"Aren't you gonna buy the new Final Fantasy?"

"No, I hear the JRPG's are not commanding the respect they use to; If I buy it, people may think I'm not cool!"

[Rock Bottom]

Ahh! not really.

I don't know why the sudden hate for JRPGs, they never did a good job in NA(other than FF) in the first place, and there have been some really good ones lately.

[Redempteur]

i really don't care ...

i'll play WKC , SO4 , FF13 and atelier rorona this year

Yeah yeah Jrpgs are on the decline ... yet FF13 has sold 1.5M already in 4 days ...( japan only )

Wait where is the decline again ?

[evrfighter]

Final Fantasy is the reason I own a PS3.

I loved me my final fantasies. But Mass Effect was better than FF 8 and 10.

Definately a title that will be built upon like Final Fantasy has.

JRPG's no longer interest me like they used to. The weeboo's here at N4G I'm sure will defend JRPG's to the death. Seems there's plenty of them

[ReBurn]

Always a conspiracy, everywhere you look. JRPG's aren't declining because of too many shooters on the 360 or FUD from developers. They're declining because there aren't that many being localized for countries outside of Japan. Out of sight, out of mind. It's just part of the evolution of the industry.

There was a time when probably more than 95% of all console RPG's were developed in Japan and then translated for sale in other countries. As games have become more sophisticated and voice acting has replaced on-screen text it has become more expensive and time consuming to localize games. Meanwhile western developers have started making games that are as good as the typical turn-based stuff that used to be pumped out of Japan, so interest has waned.

Personally I was never a fan of JRPG's. The only one I really ever liked was FFVII. But I've been a huge fan of BioWare's stuff. They make awesome games that sell multiple millions in countries around the world. So they should be respected as such.

[Redempteur]

wait so the only people who'll defends jrpgs are weaboo ?

i'm glad you're happy with the genre of rpg you enjoy ..disliking something doesn't mean it's suddenly crap ...

people can dislike one or the other or both just like someone like me can enjoy FF13 AND DRAGON AGE .

What some of you don't get is that Jrpgs and Wrpgs aren't opposed .. both can coexist ...
I also fail to see how liking Jrpgs makes you weaboo...

my conclusion : ...inform yourself more before speaking ...

[Bnet343]

Actually FFXII ripped the battle system from KOTOR.

[rockleex]

How many RPGs have been released on the HD consoles this generation.

Then tell me how many of those RPGs have been released on the PS3, where the JRPG fanbase is.

Then tell me how many JRPGs have been released on the Wii, PSP, or DS.

Exactly, JRPGs haven't really made the jump to HD consoles yet. FFXIII is only the beginning.

[presto717]

I still think western rpgs suck. Japanese rpgs are the way to go

[Nihilism]

I don't know why people are getting so upset about this the quote is taken out of context here, in it's original form, the interviewer asked the bioware dudes what they thought about wrpg vs jrpg. Bioware didn't come come out and say "jrpg sucks". Are people seriously taking sides with square, the company that abandoned their entire user base just for a little bit more money, the same company that has taken 3 years to come out with a game for ps3?, Bioware were always pc devs, the fact that they are on consoles now is just a reflection of the industry, but they sure as hell didn't gimp the pc versions for a quick $. They have made masterpiece after masterpiece, and I agree with them, at least half of the jrpgs coming out are below average at best

[vhero]

JRPGS only seemed to be failing because S-E took a huge gamble with MS and it backfired as did mistwalker and now look what happened. They both went to making handheld games for a while and now S-E is back to PS3 support. MS the JRPG killer. Thye are to blame though not the console for paying for exclusivity for a console where the audience don't want that type of game. Fair enough they did it to try pull JRPG players onto the 360 however it didn't work. You need proof? Where is FF13 for 360 in Japan? There isn't one. That's your proof.

[4Sh0w]

Damm you guys are so quick to attack without ever putting things into context. I truly believe you guys only read headlines and a few comments before you throw out such BS accusations.

Kotaku is doing a duplicate story on the same qoute taken from Biowares interview with Destructoid, it says so right there prior to the qoute, and the Destructoid story was already posted on n4g.

If you read the original interview Destructoid repeats a familiar concern about JRPG's the idea that JRPG's are in decline, this isn't a new idea, many have said it, including Japanese devs, so Destructoid ASKS Bioware why they think its happening, there answer is their opinion, you may disagree but its generally what the public thinks, sure alot of hardcore jrpg fans may think jrpg's are still the best thing, but Bioware along with many others are simply giving their opinion, I see know reason why all the hate and talk of them being arrogant, they aren't flat out bashing jrpg's or saying they suck, just giving their honest impression, but I guess some of you would rather they lie and say they think jrpg's are on the rise and have very new an exciting gameplay to make you feel better. Grow up gamers, criticism is good, they sure took alot of it about the elevator and framerate issues in ME1 and did what any good dev would do, address it and try their damm best to fix it.

[Bodyboarder_VGamer]

~r-evolution~

[Millah]

Kind of hypocritical. Bioware games have evolved about just as much as JRPGs have, well maybe Mass Effect could be an exception but shooter mechanics aside it was still basically KOTOR/Jade Empire. So the argument could be made that while Bioware/WRPGs added shooter mechanics to their existing formulas, some JRPGs have added real time combat mechanics to their existing formulas.

The thing is, the fact that they said this proves they never were much of JRPG fans. The fall of JRPG has nothing to do with their lack of evolution, ask any true JRPG fanboy, we actually WISH they STILL played like they did on PSX. JRPGs just aren't nearly as well made as they were in previous gens. It hasn't nothing to do with their lack of evolution, rather their failed attempts to evolve the genre is contributing to the decreasing quality.

The Jap devs are no longer making their games solely aimed at the Jap market, problem is that the Japanese culture in their games was part of its appeal. Now that they have been trying to aim at different markets, they've changed the soul and DNA of what a JRPG is. The end result is something that lacks its original appeal, and just doesn't have the same quality or passion from the devs.

The shifted influence on the gaming industry from Japan to now the West is what ruined JRPGs, and partially Japanese gaming as a whole. The Japs are still producing excellent games, but not at the rate they used to.

[StarCSR]

It's not that simple... i have all the systems and have some of the so called "better" RPG's of this generation: Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Eternal Sonata and I've played Star Ocean, Last Remnant and Infinite UNdiscovery. And I can assure you: The reason they aren't selling is NOT that Xbox-owners don't buy that stuff (most of the RPG buffs around me have that system btw), but that that stuff just isn't as good as it used to be. Lost Odyssey is REALLY good and that one sold, Eternal Sonata also sold and that one's "OK"... But the rest just sucks... It's not like Star Ocean & Eternal Sonata sell that much better on PS3 outside of Japan...

PS: It's not Bioware complaining that it doesn't sell, it's Bioware saying the games just aren't that good anymore. So keep your fanboy crap for the Open Zone.

[Sarick]

Don't forget they took no shame in making the Dragon Ages and their other titles copy locked.

The favorite part of RPGs for me is growing and becoming a bad arse. Unfortunitly, those are short lived when you lose 100's of hours of work because DRM.

[hatchimatchi]

gtfo,

i'm not knocking bioware, they seem like a solid enough studio but to say that jrpg's aren't evolving is a little silly to me. 90% of the stuff out right now is either recycled stuff or sequels. I'll take a solid jrpg any day over a cover system tps game (or a bioware game for that matter). You can't take a jrpg and turn it into an all out action game, it wouldn't be a jrpg. Jrpg's have a very dedicated fanbase, somewhat niche, but very dedicated.

Also, i don't think it's all that fair to judge the state of jrpgs right now in the game industry. For one, they do great on handhelds and two, the ps3 has hardly any rpg's in it's software line up. I bet if the exclusive rpgs square made for the 360 were multiplat at launch or sony exclusive the sales figures would have been completely different. The 360 isn't a system that people bought to play jrpgs on.

[sikbeta]

WHAT???

People still believe that lol

Is not going to Happen

[ezcex]

it's only declining in the west because they tried to change the games that have came out to appeal to a more western audience which makes it automatically a POS

[DaTruth]

While trying to appeal to more people, they end up turning of their core fanbase and appealing to less people!

Video gamers are generally the people that western culture least appeals to... except maybe the culture of war!

[happy_gilmore]

played morrowind, was great for about 100 hours
played oblivion, kinda boring
played mass defect, boring
played dragon age, even more boring

FFXII is the best in the series since FF6

[Nihilism]

I disagree on all points, but FFXII was an amzing game, F the haters, the game was brilliant

[nefertis]

mass effect is no were near better then final fanasty franchise, if it wasnt for jrpgs western rpgs wouldnt exist it.everybody would be playing shooters. STFU bioware u dont know wat some gamers want.

[Odion]

You are aware that FF is a direct rip off of Ultima 3? The West created every version of RPG that has ever been created.

[Baka-akaB]

sigh let that stupid interview die already ...

[oricon]

If western rpgs created much better worlds instead of the dark usual worlds we see into something more colorful and inviting i would play them, plus the character designs always turns me off in western rpgs their usually too realistic which makes it boring for me, one thing i love about Jrpgs are is that their never too realistic or not realistic at all.

[kaveti6616]

Yeah, I know, huh?

I love playing games where you cannot tell if the character is a guy or a girl because everyone looks exactly the same with spiky, emo haircuts. /s

It's one thing to criticize Turn 10, but Bioware is one of the BEST developers there are. You can call them arrogant snobs, but Bioware delivers consistently.

[creeping judas]

if White Knght Chronicles has an annoying anime character like Maru Maru (or what ever his name is) from Blue Dragon, I will quit JPRG's all together.

[dkp23]

but it plays a lot like KOTOR with FFXII gambits...lets be real

[Bnet343]

That's what I'm saying. BioWare never ripped off FFXII, what a dumb thing to say. Guess the guy never played KOTOR.

[Midgard228]

i mean really, who ever says mass effect, Kotor, dragon age and jade empire dont feel like the same game they r liars, lol, lack of evolution, and its sad cuz its from one company thats doing this.

always starting off in some acedemy, journey is always interuptted by some big orginization and it seems hopeless. besides that all the gameplay feels the same. dragon age is kotor in fantasy settings

[Nac]

Dragon Age is not KotOR in a fantasy setting.

[Lou Ferrigno]

Dude WKC and Demons souls FTMFW! .. bioware.. whos bioware? lol

[Seferoth75]

The guys who getting better reviews for their games and much higher sales than those you bring up..

[thief]

Mass Effect sold about 2 million on the 360, quite likely barely enough to recoup even half of their investment (though PC sales would have helped), less than what FF13 has sold in Japan alone in 1 week - though that may be shipped rather than sold, still impressive. Also less than what LBP sold on the PS3 on a smaller install base, with 1/10th the development cost. Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey (< 1 million), Too Human (< 1 million0 and Forza 3 (about /10th of a GT game sales) are probably the biggest commercial flops of this generation, considering hype, advertising, developer pedigree and development costs were all massive for these games.

[ReBurn]

What was BioWare's monetary investment in Mass Effect?

[DaTruth]

$60 x 2 million = $120,000,000. I'm sure there is enough money there for EA, Bioware and retail!

But I bet you it was 10-20mil!

[ReBurn]

That's what I'm thinking. If there wasn't money made on the first one there's no way we'd be seeing a second one.

[DaTruth]

These guys don't understand that selling 2 million of anything is amazing. 1 million copies assures a sequel and 500,000 will have the whole team and publishers eating good... Unless you made Killzone 2 and then you have to sell 2 million to make a profit!(Notice it has yet to come down in price)

[eagle21]

They are just selling themselves short by saying this. When will some of these developers learn! I can't wait to see:

The Rapid Decline Of Bioware

[ReBurn]

Their acquisition by EA will be the reason for their decline. The studio makes great games.

[Nihilism]

"Their acquisition by EA will be the reason for their decline."

I couldn't possibly disagree anymore than I do now. They used to make 1 game every few years, but up until recently, they were working on Dragon Age, ME2, and Star Wars: The Old Republic, all at the same time,

but what do I know, apparently making a lot more games = less profit, here I was thinking it would mean more money for them and EA

[sleepyazn]

i much rather replay Kingdom Hearts 1/2 then play another electronic version of D&D again or a Shooter pretending to be a WRPG.

[CARRIERHASARRIVED]

As far as I'm concerned, Diablo 1, and Diablo 2 are the best WRPG'S avaiable (I don't care how much D&D mechanics they try to copy/paste into their games, it's still doesn't work like D&D), and as far as this generation's concerned, Demon's Souls sits on top of my best RPG's.

I don't know, I still play Japanese RPG's a lot, and play only select WRPG's. Oblivion has outdone anything Bioware did this gen IMO, Bioware doesn't make me wet like the rest of the WRPG lovers out there. I really don't see the appeal in their *NEW* games.

Edit: I guess I should just state a couple things here. To me, games are a timeless form of entertainment. If a game wow'd me years ago, I don't suddenly forget about it and look to the next best thing to throw my money and time at. It's got to DO something big for me when I pick it up and play it. I still play and love the games I enjoyed in the past, regardless of the generation they hail from. From my experience playing Bioware games, I really haven't be wow'd by what they've done so far this generation, and don't see why so many people are rushing to crown them as the kings of RPG's. To be honest, it's really baffling. We've got Bethesda, Bioware, and what.. Silicon Knights? Then a trillion nameless MMORPG'S sitting under Blizzard's WoW. Decline? how? I don't see it.

[TheTruth2009]

Listen PS3 Fans...

YOU AREN'T 12 YEARS OLD ANYMORE.

Chrono Trigger was awesome.
Phantasy Star was legendary.
Xenogears was fun.
And Final Fantasy set the standard.

But that was generations ago. The world has moved on.

The West has taken over the RPG Genre and it kills you. It only further cements the proof that is right in front of your faces:

The Playstation Name is dying.
And it's assisting in dragging down an entire genre of gaming.
The PS1 and PS2 consoles were KNOWN for its great collection of JRPG's. And no one wants them anymore. (Japan notwithstanding.)
New IP's fall short on the PS3 regularly.
And the West is putting out better products regularly.

Yes, JRPG's have gotten away from standard turn-based fare by incorporating real-time fighting sequences to speed along the games.

But the result is still the same.

Pretty boys, CG cutscenes, and hours upon hours of voice-acting and orchestral music. We get it. And it's over.

That generation is dead and Final Fantasy XIII is the last gasp. Yes, Final Fantasy XIV (according to your logic, a multiplat) is coming, but NO ONE CARES. Final Fantasy Versus is coming. NO ONE CARES.

Your childhood nostagia is blinding your rationale. Let it go.

Oblivion is PERFECTION.
Fallout is AMAZING.
Mass Effect is INCREDIBLE.
Diablo
Baldur's Gate
Knights of the Old Republic
Fable
World of Warcraft

The list goes on and on.
Jump on board.
And of course... "Jump in". :-)

[Jerk120]

I actually agree with Bioware.

Japans problem is not knowing what good sh!t is, which is why they prefer the Ps3 over the Xbox360.

They need to study the west more, learn from them.

[ssipmraw]

you need to get a life

[CrimsonSaber]

honestly to the dude that said oh jap rpgs arnt cool so im not gonna buy it or however you word it. i dont any serous gamer would say that its an rpg a freaking nerd fest.
jrpg are the most boring pos on gods big ass green earth.
pokemon was about all i could handle. and guys hate it all you want ill pick oblivion over ff 7 anyday its hella of alot more funner. and in a since does require alot more tact. but jrpg put my ass to sleep. you know i never really got the gist of how someone could just run in a bunch of grass and have a little video pop up where 3 guys and a girl are dancing with jappy techno running . and the play you attack i attack you attack oh im injure ill take up a turn by healing this guy . you attack ive died. you attack ive died
BOOOOORRRRRRRRRRIIIIINNNNG Zzzzz.
To Much Hate ?
Really?

[Nac]

1. Combat is most always the same, classic turn based

2. Terrible voice acting.

And a bonus third thing

3. Similar art styles(they always seem to have an underlying,organic look). I mean really, there is something about them that makes them contain similar traits visually.

[Lavalamp]

Tales of Vesperia says hi!

[Nac]

What exactly are you saying "Hi" to?

[Tru_Ray]

It really irks me when these "articles" pop up professing the death of JRPGs.

The illusion of the decline of JRPGS can be explained by the following:

1. The dearth of AAA JRPGs on the PS3, which has a much lower install base in the U.S. where the majority of these ill-informed articles are conceived. This should change next year when FF XIII and WKC are released;
2. The idiotic decision of Square Enix to support the 360 early in the console cycle in a feeble attempt to expand their market to a user base that likes to play Halo and Gears of War;
3. The idiotic decision of Square Enix to westernize their JRPG games, which has resulted in incongruos JRPG/WRPG half-breeds (e.g. Last Remnant);
4. The desire of western gaming media to rhasodize anything that is ostensibly "innovative", even though the widespread success of various generic franchises seems to suggest that innovation is not critical to success (e.g. Call of Duty, Madden, Halo, etc.)

It all boils down to personal preference. I got bored of Fallout 3 and Oblivion after about 20 or so hours. The free roaming aspect of these games is cool, but can be a bit overwhelming at times.

I prefer the tight, linear gameplay of Valkyria Chronicles, which is in my opinion the best RPG of this generation.

Unfortunately, since it did not the generate the sales/critical acclaim it must not be as good.

/sarcasm

Tru

[Knightofelemia]

All thoe some JRPGS are the same but made by differant companies I still perfer them over WRPGS. Mass Effect and DragonAge I am sure are great games but I am not a fan of them. JRPGS I like because the music is great and you can relate to the character more. WRPGs to me feel alot like a Lord of the Rings kinda of game wich is alright but you can only play as a dwarf or an elf for so long. Each fan will have a type of RPG they will like the JRPG will never disappear for the simple fact they sell well in Japan. The decline of the JRPG hitting North American shores is a bad thing and I wish they would pump more of them out.

[MonopolyRSV]

People don't buy JRPGS anymore cause they finally realized how whack the characters are. For the most part the Japanese don't know how to design good characters with interesting personalities, they always opt out for drawing the girls with the jumbo eyes and sappy romantic storylines.

This new Final Fantasy seems to be more westernized, but that really just means "normal". They don't have any JRPG out in Japan right now with graphics and characters that look as good and believable as the screens of FF13 show. The storyline will still be garbage probably, but they definitely tried to cater more to normal western people.

Stop trying to infect us with your terrible art style then maybe you will sell games again.

[Baka-akaB]

As opposed to leliana and miss "tis so cold in my tent all alone" Morrigan ? Yeah right .

At least japanese folks wont hide they are biased against wrpgs , and prefer their own stuff .

Just admit the same , you prefer western style over japanese ones , wich would be perfectly ok and fine , and keep moving on ...

Dont pretend you were once ever interested , but suddenly lost interest cause of some pseudo lack of evolution

[bigjclassic]

PS3 is still waiting for JRPG here in NA, and the Wii only has 1 so far in ToS2.

Also JRPGS have done phenomenal numbers on DS. So they can say so far that JRPGs have not done good business on 360, but as a whole JRPGs are doing just fine.

Ive been saying this for a while, you want great JRPGs get a DS. 18 JRPGs on DS have sold over a million units, so how is that a fail??

[rob6021]

He's wrong about the reasoning that JRPGs are on the decline. Square-Enix and Namco-Bandai took the bribes and sold out against the only non-handheld platform that was supporting them for the last two generations. In turn they sold out against their fans, and people(Japanese) won't buy in to PS3 because it has few JRPGS.

He's right about JRPGs not being accessible to casual gamers, by not hiding the numbers 'under the trunk.' Having a lot of stats all over the screen screams complex and scares most casuals away.

Being more open ended isn't completely necessary though, he's wrong about that. A game can be either, most people realize a more open ended game means less polish. Choose your own adventure books don't dominate the books marketplace for good reason, letting the author choose the best, most well thought-out ending and giving you that is usually a better choice.

[Bluemaster77]

Personally the turned based combat was always a huge turn off to me , right along with the convoluted story lines JRpgs are just whack IMO

[Nihilism]

shhh you'll earn the wrath of the 14 year olds

[Bluemaster77]

haha im wearing my nerd proof vest

[Imalwaysright]

i like both western and japanese rpgs but to me western rpgs are superior because you can actually choose what you want to do next and your choice will have an effect in the world youre playing in, Im not even sure if JPRGs should be called RPG.

[glennhkboy]

Fanboyism aside, what JRPG lack now is FREEDOM!!! For WRPG you are free to be bad/ good, free to explore, free to choose your upgrade path, free to choose your sex orgination, etc. On the other hand, JRPG will not give any freedom to the player. Just look at FFXIII ! Even some Japanese think it is too liner! After experiencing a great freedom from Fallout III, Dragon Age, KOTOR, etc, it is really hard to go back to the liner, no-freedom form of JRPG.

[Veneno]

It's very obvious about 90% of ppl here have NOT played Demon's Souls.

[Meryl]

They will have to take that comment back after the amazing sales for FF XIII.
JRPG'S were pushed onto the wrong platform, now proved as a fact.