Denis Dyack: Used Game Sales and Piracy Very Similar

GamingUnion.net writes, "Early last week London, Ontario hosted the DIG London video game developers conference, with developers such as renowned developer and Silicon Knights president, Denis Dyack. GamingUnion.net had the unique opportunity to take part in an on-stage interview with Dyack, focusing on his core values within the video game industry. However, before going on stage we caught up with Denis for an exclusive interview about other industry issues.

GamingUnion.net has prepared a two part interview for later today, and tomorrow, with Denis Dyack speaking on such issues as video game piracy, the injustice of used video game sales, and what digital distribution will do to the industry as we know it. Likely the most debatable issue discussed, used game sales, was a particularly interesting point of discussion."

[mephman]

It's perhaps a weird analogy to make, but it's actually quite true.

[Selyah]

Yeah it does make sense

[reintype]

But at least, we paid for it.

Publishers/Devs may not like it, but there are few games imo, that is worth its initial asking price.

Besides that, there are other reasons too. I for one, have a profound dislike for certain Publishers, thinking of them making a profit from me, does not sit too well, better the bloke or the Used gameshop imo.

[Gamehead36]

Maybe if every game didn't ask for $60 people wouldn't look towards used games as much. The only thing that stops me from buying used is the thought of supporting gamestop.

[morganfell]

Denis would know. He is an expert in ripping people off.

So what he is saying is that selling your used 2007 Dodge Charger that you bought new with your own money is the same thing as making a copy of a 2007 Dodge and selling it.

And the person that legally buys your used 2007 Dodge Charger is as guilty as a person that buys an illegally made duplicate of a 2007 Dodge Charger.

[umair_s51]

I think upon resale of a game a fixed percentage should be given to the developer. I have no idea how this system would be implemented. But its a good idea

[morganfell]

I don't remember Rembrandt's family getting a percentage of the last resale of one of his paintings. The idea of such a system is absurd.

The best insurance against re-sales is for developers to make a great game. The number of pirated game copies produced in this world doesn't even begin to approach the number of legally produced pieces of crap trhat are shoved out the door and called retail games.

Besides, Dyack is becoming the king of whiners.,.about everything.

[velcry]

For the thousandth time, when there is a healthy used-game market, first-hand buyers SPEND MORE because there is always the option of selling games if they end up tight for cash.

Take away the used-game market, and first-time buyers will realize that when they sink their money into games, they are essentially locking away that cash for good, and WILL SPEND LESS.

True, the used-game market undercuts developers, but to say that buying used-games is not much different from piracy?!? Give some credit to the people like me who make an effort to stay away from piracy, WHICH HELPS NEITHER THE DEVELOPER NOR FIRST-HAND BUYERS.

Geez.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

from a legal standpoint the latter is illegal while the former is legal.

Therefore I see no problem with the former and developers should encourage (as they already do) development of games that appeals longer.

[evrfighter]

I agree used game sales and piracy are one and the same. Except there's a cash flow when it comes to used game sales.

Simple fix really. games should be locked to your profile like steam does it. Sure you can get around that and play single player still but games like MW2 would be useless should you buy it used.

[sunil]

if used game sales is piracy, new game sales is day light robbery

[raztad]

I strongly support (buy) used games. It's just a way to get the same game cheaper. I dont see the auto industry calling people "pirates" when buying a second/third hand car.

Illegal copies and used games arent definitely the same problem. An used game is just ONE used game on a single user hand, a downloaded game can be replicated at infinitum. If the game industry wants to sell more, they just need to lower the price. $50 (MAX) will boost sales for sure.

I find a bit interesting that Sony's full downloadable games for the PSP are even more expensive than regular retail games throught amazon. That doesn't make sense.

[Sarcasm]

Too Human and Haze review scores quite similar.

[LastDance]

I work in an Australian video game store. When we sell a new game - lets say COD MW2 for example - we will pay about $90Au for it and sell it for 109.95.

Pre owned games pay the bills. Any game dev complaining about preowned sales is nothing more than a coporate greed monger.

[Izzy12345]

There's been piracy and game swapping since the beginning of the industry. I recall there was a local store that traded used for used back in the NES days and the industry has only grown since then.

The fact is that there are so many games now that there is no point in buying so many that you will play thru once and then leave on a shelf. Used games give those with tighter budgets the chance to play a title they may not ordinarily like and a chance for those who are disappointed in a title to get some money back.

Piracy is different no money exchanges hands and is detrimental to the industry and gamers who have to eat the losses. There is some lost revenue from used game sales but piracy is far worse.

I like Bioware as a dev they make great games but this sounds more like the whining of a greedy corporate suit rather than a game producer. Sure he has to make money but trashing the used game industry is not the way to go piracy is the problem.

[jerethdagryphon]

i totally agree

being on said tight budjet rentals and buying used are a way to get games i might not play,

for reference i have a ps3 so im no game pirate,

and i buy games new if its one ive been lookingforward to ie uncharted..

with prices as they are few could buy many games a month.

[FantasyStar]

I'd think it's more than just cutting from used-games and disposable income. It's what each individual think a game is worth that'll decide whether they pay the initial price or wait for it to drop. The used-game market exists for a reason.

For example: a game like Uncharted 2 to me is not worth $60. Why? I will never ever play multiplayer component whatsoever, so why pay for things I will never used? I was able to pick up the game from Craigslist for $45 which I feel is more fair. Had retailers dropped the price, I would've picked it up new just the same.

And even more, developers have to strive to give us the best entertainment dollar if they want us to pay their prices. $60 is alot for a game you're going to play once and put away. Games need to have replay value on top of good gameplay and graphics. That would include offline MP, offline co-op. LAN support. Online co-op. How many players are supported. Believe it. When developers make great games that provide bang for the buck pricing, and content that overflows with entertainment. Developers and Publishers will profit regardless of piracy and used-games because most people will run out to buy it new anyways.

Piracy and used-games are mostly a problem when people feel a game isn't worth the asking price. I wish developers would stop overthinking the issue and playing the victim. Bang for buck pricing and huge replay value is the way to deterring piracy and used-game sales. Not DRM, and Episodic Content. They are fighting the system and are losing. They know it. Customers decide what they want and what the asking price is, not the developers or publishers.

If you're trying to break into the industry, set your prices low so people will give you a chance. If you're trying out a new idea, set your prices low so people will advertise for you. A game like Folklore is a genuine example of a fresh take on gameplay but fell short because of the $60 value and what was offered. I picked it up for $22 and couldn't be happier. I just wish games would debut at this price point. Makes impulsive purchases more likely. If I see a game that's out of my expectations and asks for more than I'm paying. I'm going to do research first before buying.

The only real victims out of this whole debate are the ones that paid $60 for a game they didn't like and cannot return it. This is why the used-game market exists for people to get some part of their investment back. This is why the used-game market will never go away.

[Ravage27]

as much as i agree with you...

"$60 is alot for a game you're going to play once and put away. Games need to have replay value on top of good gameplay and graphics. That would include offline MP, offline co-op. LAN support. Online co-op."

I think Uncharted2 offers most of that. Are you really going to play it only once? There are loads of unlockables and modifiers, i'm pretty sure the SP alone has good replay value - i must have played through UC1 at least 8 times, worth every cent

[FantasyStar]

At the time back in October, I did feel that way. When MP is purely online-only. I'm discouraged from making the full purchase because I consider my purchases years from now when PS4 drops. Would Uncharted 2 servers still be up? And what about my own internet and such. I really did like Uncharted 2 and it's a top-tier game. When Borderlands came out, my Uncharted 2 life went away real quickly.

I got together with 3 other friends in my place and we LAN'd Borderlands in the backyard. I dunno, you got me rethinking about what I did now. Should I have paid full price then? Do I want to resell my used copy and get a new one to support ND? I did buy the first one at retail....

I think the penny-pincher in me would laugh at such thought.

[Gamingisfornerds]

STFU!

Pretty please.

[ChampIDC]

He's right from the perspective of a developer or publisher, as used games and piracy both net no money for them, but from a consumer's standpoint, used games are a legitimate purchase.

[Revvin]

I imagine what really is frustrating to a developer is when large chains like GAME and Gamestation actively push used copies. 8 out of 10 times I've taken a new game to the counter to pay and they have asked if I'd prefer a used copy.

[LostDjinn]

His logic is flawed though. By his logic someone buying a secondhand car is the same as a car thief. Car companies know it'd be a cold day in hell before consumers took this crap from them. I wonder why there's such a difference of opinion in the two fields. Shouldn't a consumer have the same rights no matter what the product is?

[OpenGL]

The only used games I ever buy are out of production titles, and I buy those on Ebay usually. Every game I own for the PS3, 360, and Wii was purchased brand new. I do not like the idea of Gamestop re-selling the same game over and over, taking away money from the developers who actually put their hard work into making the game. I'm not saying Gamestop shouldn't be allowed to sell used games, but I personally dislike used games as they hurt developers.

Sony and Microsoft are going to cut Gamestop out of the market once digital distribution takes over 100% for the consoles, and I don't feel sorry for them one bit. Gamestop doesn't care about the bottom line of game developers and publishers, so why should Sony or MS care about theirs?

[Mogabu]

And what of game rental services like GameFly? Why is this never brought up? They purchase a few copies and hundreds of people play them, possibly finishing them and the dev. never sees a penny beyond the original purchase. Used game sales are a scapegoat for the industry's overpriced games. Bring down the prices, the used game market loses it's wide margin's it's got. YOU created this mess, developers and publishers by making games so costly. I remember the push to $60 thinking, "Oh yeah.. Now we're really going to hear it about used games and piracy as sales numbers drop without ever going into the fact they raised the freaking prices."

[Main_Street_Saint]

Definitely true. If they put the prices back down to $50 then I bet that sells would go back up for sure. Also, the special editions should be only $10 more then the regular editions (not anywhere from 20-50 more).

[NeoBasch]

This I cannot argue. Purchasing used is the same as piracy. However, I do support used game sales when a console is dead. For example, finding Psychonauts for the Xbox is a b!tch. The only way to get it now is used. Same for Suikoden II. Then again, Sony and Microsoft are beginning to release classic titles from their older systems digitally. Soon there won't even be a good reason to buy used.

I suppose people who simply can't afford the $50-60 price tag should be able to participate. So in that case, used games do help. If the user likes it enough than they will theoretically support the developer in the future. People can only afford so much. Developers should be grateful they're even able to spend some money. Nevertheless, I'd prefer they wait for sales. In other words, I can empathize with both parties.

As for me, I have yet to buy a game for the 360, PS3, or Wii used. I've been a strong supporter of developers and publishers in hopes that they can make some profit this generation. I'm not offended by those who purchase used. I'll make up for the sales you guys couldn't. ; )

[Professor Chaos]

THANK YOU!!!! I have been saying this forever and everyone disagrees. I mean on a used sell the publisher and developers and all those people make NO money on. It is all profit for GameStop/Crazy or whatever. I know this becasue I have managed at both stores.

Oh well, I am just glad that now a big shot developer is saying this maybe now people will listen to me....prolly not tho. lol

[Lykon]

hmmm ok , i see your piont, but doesn't it give access to games by people with less money? so a percentage of gamers can save up for a console, and then have budget options for buying games. and used games can be purched direct from previous owner on ebay etc. I'll be trading in fallout 3 to bring down the price of the fallout goty edition, which will be the cheapest way for me to get the extra content. occasionaly i might get a used game of a title that i wouldnt have got anyway because of bad reviews. no way is this similar to piracy. i love you x

[tcapri]

OMG, Dyack needs to just STFU already. Truly. Why are games any more worthy of new-only sales than, say, an effin' car? Try using this logic on any other product -- see how much sense it makes to you.

Someone had to come up with the technical scheme for creating a car, and I'm sure a lot of work and testing goes into the process. So, we shouldn't sell our cars -- just buy new ones? Sounds like the whole "I want my cake and eat it, too" scenario.

[Cyb3r]

Well I doubt Piracy will be a problem for him I mean who the hell would be bothered pirating Too Human or more to the point who would even buy it preowned

[DatBoiDrew]

exactly

[Lykon]

i prefer to buy new gamnes because you dont know what microbes or traces of unexplained matter may have been left in the instruction booklet. errrrrrrrrr

that dryek bloke sounds like a right tosser, what on earth was he going on about? talk about having sand in your vagina. is he the guy that made that crappy bioshock game?

[Obama]

no he's the guy who made the ultra flop called Too Human, which took 10 years in development.

[Lykon]

oh i understand, he is a bitter loser

[DuneBuggy]

The used "new releases" at the local Gamestop I saw were not a good deal. I think they may have been 5 bucks cheaper.
I have bought used games before.Mainly older titles they didnt have new anymore.

[Main_Street_Saint]

Yeah at that point, just pay the $5 extra and get the new release copy as opposed to used. Of course, I don't live anywhere near a gamestop or anything similar (just a pawnshop and a comic book store that sells games for people at a small commision).

[N2NOther]

The benefit of buying used is that you can return the game in 7 days for a full refund.

[lizard81288]

maybe M$ will ban gamestop now.

:D

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

are also most definatley people that download music illegaly on a daily basis... hypocrites!

[Bathyj]

It probably a fair analogy as far as it relates to the publisher, but I wouldn't worry about it if I were you Dennis.

Piracy and 2nd hand sales, only effect games people want. I dont think you misssed out on much.

[N2NOther]

I buy used all the time and I'm happy with it. Some games I feel like revisiting but I traded it in because I was strapped for cash and wanted to play a new game. Other times I purchase games that I wouldn't have paid full price for but when they drop below $20 used, I can justify the purchase.