How to Spot a Biased, Research-Free Article

As many N4G readers know by now Valve is forbidden to have an opinion on the basis that they are a video game developer.

Some have even noted that when an employee like Chet Faliszek says something controversial in a one on one interview, all 190 employees that make up the company also state the same quotations and in fact uninvolved founder Gabe Newell somehow said them both louder and previous to anyone else. Of course, his weight and what people plan on doing to his wife are both integral parts of the comments in question.

[mastiffchild]

Don't be so silly. Valve should be way above doing what they have. The guy basically dissed the entie PSN uservase for no reason and both Gabe and various employees have carried this on for ages. Ask yourself why no other dev says things like these? Valve is in a psotion above that of fanboys so why try to rile them up or gee them up? They've been unprofessional and Gabe's MS heavy background makes people sus about what he says especially, no?

Of course Valve and all it's individual employees are entitled to an opinion just as they can make games for whoever they like but they must expect a backlash from some gamers when they act like they have-why not just say they still have no plans to work on the PS3? Do like Ted Price when he's asked about 360 development, no? If they want to badmouth cnsoles and people gaming on a console they're the ones who're being silly and iot's happened way too many times when someone ahs been representing them as a company for it to be coincidental.

IDK why Valve persistantly have done this but I see no need and find it a little beneath their position. We know Gabe doesn't like the hardware and all of that but the slur on PSN users by Chet was even lower and less needed than ever-Valve keep bringing this on themselves and noone would care if they acted like 99% of devs do in the same, consle exclusive situation. They can stop it dead by just not saying things likely to start flamewars. It's about unprofessionality and rudeness and not about their right to an opinion or to build games for whoever they like-that's all accepted by everyone. Being pointlessly rude, however, isn't-they aren't tactful and do it with noone winding them up to start with-that's why they get some heat for it.Sheesh.

The fact they talk about the PS3 from a place of ignorance having never made a game for the console or those gamers they seem to dislike so much makes it seem even less professional, too. It's quite strab=nge, if you ask me, that they wish to carry his on-noone has been asking them to at all. The only thing some PS3 owners have done is wish their games were coming to their console-what a crime! that deserves some pointless hate does it not? Fact is Valve can stop this whenever they like and it's them and their spokemen that carry it on unilaterally as far as I can see so it's no wonder people comment o it or find it a little wierd.

[cupogoodness]

I think you make great points there, luckily I don't have to argue with them since none of them contradict the point of my article.

I wrote it because the articles that have been trying to represent your side thus far have been very under researched and very reactionary to Chet's comments. They write that kind of stuff quick and dirty because they feel they're on a time limit with general interest and more importantly if they don't go out and piss everybody off someone else will. It's simply one of the best ways to drive web traffic nowadays, and N4G falls right into it. Since most understand that, you see the method being used to a point where it's starting to overtake actual news.

I feel as though I'm a community member of this site, and regardless of how other people see it, I feel embarrassed when new users come to this site for gaming information and see what's most important to us, the gaming world. It's not how I would like to be represented.

[ElementX]

Cute Examiner pic! :) Unfortunately it's just not much of an article. Your writing only serves to fill N4G with more garbage which you don't want new N4G users to see to begin with.

[-Alpha]

What exactly did they say? That XBL was head and shoulder better than PSN? If that is all then that is his opinion and I for one would agree (though I wouldnt say "head and shoulders" better).

He is allowed to post his opinion and that is how he feels he shouldnt be attacked for it. Also, I dont see that constitutes for "rudeness"

[Pandamobile]

Oh come on. You guys take every Valve comment way out of proportion. I went back and re-read that interview with Chet Faliszek and all he really said was it was easier to get together with your friends and join a game lobby on Live. He didn't go and say that Live was over-all better than the PSN, or say anything against the players themselves. I like the PSN and PS3 a lot more than Live and the 360 but I do find it pretty easy to get a game going online.

[cupogoodness]

Don't worry, I'm way out of my element with this point the finger stuff. I'll be going back to my patch notes and demo releases now.

[Saaking]

No, Valve's opinion doesn't matter becuase they talk trash about the PS3 and HAVE NEVER DEVELOPED A GAME ON IT. How can they know that it's "trash" or that the userbase is "inferior" if they HAVEN'T even tried it? They just talk a lot, but can't back it up. If they had at least TRIED to develop for the PS3 then maybe their opinion would hold some ground, but as it is their opinion on the PS3 hold no ground.

[-Alpha]

Oh shoot Saaking, I've been mixing up Bioware with Valve

:/

Also did they really say it was trash? Where?

And yes, the userbase on PSN IS inferior... it has less players, so it is totally inferior statistically. Though, "inferior" can be a pretty offensive term to PSN fans

[Saaking]

Valve hating on PS3:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsS...
http://news.filefront.com/g...

Just becuase there's less players on PSN does NOT make it inferior. It is on par with XBL in terms of online gaming. Valve's statements were really uncalled for anyways. If they don't want to develop then fine, but don't go around insulting the PS3 and it's fanbase just becuase you lack the skill to develop for it. And the word "inferior" is offensive to anyone. What if I said "You are inferior to me." Isn't that rude to you?

[HolyOrangeCows]

....hide the fact that the ever expanding PS3 intimidates what is considered to be such a supreme developer.

They didn't stop at ''It's difficult to develop for'' because they had to prove themselves.

Their ''points'' about community don't really add up.
Things like the chat options in fact SCRAMBLE teamwork.
And lack of cross invites on PSN are a minor inconvenience.
And these minor inconveniences are NO WHERE NEAR BEING WORTH LOSING OUT ON 24 MILLION POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS.

[-Alpha]

Saaking, your original comment was that Valve said PSN userbase was inferior. Now you are arguing the quality of PSN.

The PSN userbase is inferior in number. This is a fact.

In terms of which is better, the fact that PSN is free makes the whole argument debatable.

Personally, XBL has more content, is better structured, has more features, and is much more experienced than the PSN, though the biggest draw for PSN is that it is free... and it has Dedicated Servers for its 1st Party Games which is great (though I've only noticed it in K2 and not UC2 which angers me)

[-Alpha]

What Gabe said was harsh but none of you are developers presumably and none of you know the frustrations of developing for the PS3. It is clear that the architecture for the PS3 is harder, takes more time, and can result in developers wasting time and resources. Sony knows this. Hell, they even have guys like Naughty Dog help out other guys.

Now, this argument would be much more useful a couple years ago. By now, many people have learned to grasp how to develop for the PS3. It is still easier to develop on the 360 and in this economy and times, people will continue relying on the 360. It's a real shame because this means multiplatform games wont be using the capabilities of the PS3. Thank God for Uncharted 2 though ;)

Now, Gabe said all of this and people bash him for it. What he says is true. His suggestion for Sony to start over even came half true with Sony's new attitude with their new Slim version.

All I see is people bash another guy for having an opinion without really arguing the context of his opinion. Is he not entitled to it? Just because he is a authoritative figure compared to daily consumers like us doesnt mean he isnt allowed to have an opinion

[jmare]

The big secret is that Source is not designed to work well, or at all, with a processor like the PS3, or really any multi-core processor as the engine is several years old. That's the secret, it would take work to redo their engine and they are happy with what they have rather than go for more.

EDIT: @ Alpha Male, not that I care but have you ever made love to a man? If you haven't, how can you honestly give your opinion of it? You can give an opinion, but it would be worthless because you have nothing to base it on. The same thing applies to Valve and development for the PS3. They have no experience to base an opinion on, so, while they are a "respected" developer, they are just talking out of their asses when referencing the PS3.

[morganfell]

How is it that a system that is so very difficult to develop for has the superior exclusives? How is it that Uncharted and Uncharted 2 came into being on a system that is fraught with developmental hurdles so high that Valve in their infinite wisdom cannot clear them?

The very fact that Uncharted 2 exists makes anything Valve has to say about the PS3 developmental issues a moot point. It is my sincere hope that Valve NEVER develops a PS3 title.

To paraphrase Ubisoft, if a developer cannot learn the PS3 then they are not taking time to understand the technology.

Add the fact that Valve's comments so closely resemble this that it isn't even funny:

http://battellemedia.com/im...

[ReservoirDog316]

Yeah, what he may have said may be true (it's well known PSN is a lot quiter that Live) but still, it sounded kinda rude. And when you have many PS3 fanboys ready to jump at your throat, you should have better discretion when saying stuff.

And they do have a long list of things they said on top of this. Some are misinterpreted or out of context and stuff like that but really, just do like Insomniac and be respectful from all angles. It's easier that way.

[Darkfocus]

the only valve game that supports multiple cores is team fortress and it barely supports them at all.

[Blaster_Master]

The only thing Valve ever got right is their trash talking. Every game they put out has been crap. I dont see why in the heck people go crazy over what they say? Its not like their opinion matters. Give it up Valve. Make a good game before you run your mouth about other companies and user bases.

[Pandamobile]

TF2, Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2 are all multi-threaded.

@blaster

"Every game they put out has been crap. I dont see why in the heck people go crazy over what they say? Its not like their opinion matters. Give it up Valve. Make a good game before you run your mouth about other companies and user bases"

Lol...

Half-Life and Half-Life 2 are two of the best games ever made. Team Fortress put class-based multi-player games on the map. Counter Strike put competitive, team based gaming on the map. Portal was one of the most innovative puzzle games of the decade and Left 4 Dead set a new bar in co-op action.

Almost every one of Valve's IP's has set a new standard in gaming. Why don't you play the games before judging them, hmm?

[The Lazy One]

Are you retarded? have you ever programmed anything? have you ever even made something performance based?

What you said is the equivalent of saying "If it's so much easier to make a bike than a car, why do cars go faster?"

The PS3 is more complicated to develop for. It's architecture is more complicated. That's a fact.

And Ubisoft is somewhere in the range of 10 to 100 times larger than Valve. I'm sure they can dedicate a little more money to research and development.

Like someone in another flame-valve article said. Valve isn't concerned with increasing technology. They are concerned with making game experiences and they've done a fine job of that.

[BWS1982]

er, if I recall correctly, actually, Morganfell has been involved in the industry, first hand, though I don't recall if it was necessarily programming.
============================= =============================
"What you said is the equivalent of saying 'If it's so much easier to make a bike than a car, why do cars go faster?' "

^^^^^
Um, the bike is the 360 and the PS3 is the car, and the speed is the power, if I'm getting the analogy?...so, what's the problem, you made an accurate analogy, and if someone said, "I'm only good at bikes, cars are too complex to make" that's fine. Yet some people are great at cars and they go faster, so the fact of the matter is Valve is saying they only want to make bikes, because that's what they're comfortable with...so how is it that hard to grasp that Valve SHOULD try for car making if they want to really impress or gain new customers?

They don't have to, it's their choice, and they have excellent talent as far as gameplay and design, as well as storytelling, but hell, why not just insult everybody who owns cars saying the bike owners are better people because they're okay with bike-making...How gracious.

[Miss Goblin]

Uhm if Valve only cared about making game experiences then they shouldnt comment on technology. But they dont. They comment about it all the time. Valve is the one that threw the first rock in this fight. Now you wanna say they dont care but their actions say they do. They shouldnt care since their engine is held up with bandaids.

I looked up that Ubi comment he meant and they dont think its harder, jus different. Their word is better than some one on a forum. And if Valve is gonna cry, or you are gonna cry for them and say they are not big then they shouldna make big boy and big girl comments.

[sikbeta]

"Of course, his weight" lol

Stupid article, nobody would attack newell, if he wasn't so big mouthed against PS3 and ITS COMMUNITY, he can say that he don't want or like to make games for PS3

But the thing that the other pervert f@ta$$ said, it just too much, why they don't shut up and or say: NO we don't like to make games for PS3 or we don't even care about and nobody will mess with his wife and his overweighted @SS lol

To all of the stupid zealots, is not question of valve make a game for PS3 or not, this is about a guy that doesn't respect the choice of an established gaming community

I never read or listen Bungie talking crap about PS3, or ND talking crap about xbox, that's what is has to be

t10, they are in a delusional world, they pretend to attack PD games and they finish bashing all kind of racing games, really stupid

[The Lazy One]

If morgenfell worked in the industry and people saw his posts on here he'd be black balled instantly.

And valve doesn't make comments about tech outside of saying that it's too difficult for them to justify the RnD time to make new tech on the PS3. They never said the PS3 wasn't powerful, they just said it wasn't worth the time when all they care about is making new experiences.

edit: and there's a reason Trek doesn't make cars. They are good at bikes. They are sticking with bikes.

[frostypants]

How to spot a biased, research-free article:
It is posted on examiner.com.

[BWS1982]

you don't think that when Gabe says Sony should ditch the PS3 because it's a disaster was him saying it's of no value? That sounds pretty concise to me, he feels it's useless and I don't know anyone who would call widely-purchased-technology useless, but at the same time powerful, WHILST other devs (pretty much all other devs) have grasped it and flourished in their products, millions upon millions own it...it makes them look incompetent with technology at this point in the game, whether or not they could pull off Uncharted 2 quality or not, the fact that they are so vehemently against the PS3 to the point of calling it a disaster speaks volumes on their choices, IMO. All they have to do EACH and every time is say "we like PC/360 development, that's where we're comfortable pushing the boundaries" and leave it at that, that's what any other dev would say, regardless of any hatred in their head. You just don't spout off statements like that, it does no good.

I get the R & D thing, I really do, but that would only apply if they were on the brink of bankruptcy or something, and clearly they're not. There's something else at the heart of their hatred, and every few months another comment that makes no sense or justification comes out, or offends a millions-strong group: THAT'S why there is contempt for Valve and their "philosophies".

In my opinion, I think they CAN learn the PS3 quite easily, they choose not to.

[The Lazy One]

It's an opportunity cost thing. If you spend 50 million doing a game on the PS3 that's 50 million you can't spend on other platforms, doing other RnD that's more relevant to the direction you want to go, or expanding your business.

Even major corporations that are making huge profits do the exact same thing. Just because you have money doesn't mean you should spend it on anything.

[rockleex]

But when they speak in an interview that is supposed to reflect their company as a whole, they better keep the BS away.

If they want to speak out their opinions, fine. Go do it in a blog.

Speaking of opinions, are we not allowed to have opinions also?

My opinion of Valve is that they are biased fanboys that always talk BS about the PS3.

Now stop making these useless articles. We want some actual news that doesn't pertain to arguments between fanboys and fanboy developers. -_-"

[BWS1982]

LazyOne, whatever Valve invested into PS3 development would, if they're the talented devs they're touted as, come back ten fold in the long run. Sony didn't go in the hole developing the PS3 just to give great gaming to the masses as a donation to society, they did it as an investment. The hope is they get it back later and then some. That is the business logic of any start up company, that is the logic myself as an artist should employ. If I go out and buy supplies and media, my intention is getting back many times what I spent in the end. It's quite simple, actually, and this crap about Valve not wanting to "waste" money would only happen if they bombed in their game -- and frankly, I think if they wanted to, they could learn it and learn it well, so that should be a moot point.

It's about investing, just like with MS and the $50 million for GTA DLC, the hope is they would sway gamers and make up more than that in the long run. Valve would be opening the flood gates for 20+ million gamers, how is that not wise?

[The Lazy One]

it's simple microeconomics. Take a course if you want to learn about it.

They don't want to put time and money into learning PS3 development because 1. they are a PC developer, and 2. they don't care about advancing technology as much as they care about advancing gameplay.

you can whine about it all you want, but it has nothing to do with them being not talented, lazy, or them being arrogant. The PS3 just doesn't mesh with their plans and goals.

[BWS1982]

No need for a class, I'm well versed in it, seeing as how I work at a bank. I just don't agree with those as legitimate reasons not to develop for the console, I'd find "We just don't feel like it" as being a more legitimate rationale than that. Being a PC developer is a fact, nothing more, and advancing gameplay and technology are not mutually exclusive, many companies do both and make tons of money and push the boundaries. They can do as they wish, and they don't "owe me" any better reason, but I can have an opinion on their opinion. I guess....agree to disagree.

[The Lazy One]

you say you understand it, but the idea of opportunity cost is clearly over your head if you can't accept that as a legitimate reason.

[BWS1982]

agree to disagree. I know precisely what it is. An opportunity cost issue is assuming they will have an "either/or" choice to make, and it doesn't have to be. Plenty of companies can do both, and have done both. You make it sound like they have no option but to stick with PC-centric development, or abandon it for learning the PS3. Not so, but no, I don't run the company. They can just as easily do both consoles, I am unaware of why you're presuming they have to forfeit one or the other. One or the other? Why? I believe they have the talent, resources and energy, just not the desire.

It's an investment, plain and simple, if you think it's a "waste" of money to research something and see returns from it later, then that's apparently yours and Valve's opinion. It's not mine, so I agree to disagree.

I appreciate you civilly discussing this, for the most part, though, even though at this point I'm sure this story is long dead.

[The Lazy One]

they will either spend money developing for the PS3 or they will spend that same money developing for the PC. They don't want to invest the money in RnD for the PS3 when they can just develop for the PC, hit a button and have a 360 version that just needs polishing.

That is their choice. END OF STORY.

Just because some companies decided to make the investment doesn't make Valve's choice incorrect.

For the last time. THE OPPORTUNITY COST OF DEVELOPING FOR THE PS3 WAS TOO HIGH FOR VALVE TO JUSTIFY DEVELOPING ON THAT PLATFORM. ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE PLATFORM DOESN'T MESH WITH THEIR LONG TERM GOALS.

[BWS1982]

What have they been working on that is so fragile and delicate, financially, that it would crumble and split at the seams if they devoted a fraction of their energy to another platform? What R&D of theirs is still so dedicated, time-wise, to a platform they have been working on for over a decade? What have they got planned or came out with recently that supports this mentality? What's in store that can't have a single iota of funding reallocated to another investment? You're right, it's a choice, not a requirement.

Also, so why is Valve smack talking and bashing instead of, like I said, coming out and saying exactly what you said? I may not agree with them and their "financial or art-form direction", but I'd have respect for their point of view and choice, as I have a PC also. Instead they take it as an opportunity to badger and belittle another platform and company as well as userbase. Their answer for non-PS3 development? More or less: "Because it sucks and we're better than that"...I understand the concept of a finite budget and them wanting 100% of it to go to one direction, I just don't see them requiring it (as if they have no choice), but rather choosing it.

I look at their product output and ask, where is this 100% going? I believe they are more flexible than that and can accomplish both "goals"...they just have to get creative or open-minded. You speak as if a mere 10% of manpower was dispersed elsewhere they would fail at this 1 (or less) game a year pace. Not to mention I'm sure if they asked, they could have 1st party devs from Sony come on board and assist them in a joint venture.

I'm seeing the shades of gray and forks in the road, and you appear (my opinion) to see all black and white with a straight path. I respect that, just don't agree with it.

There's not going to be an "eye to eye" here, I feel one way, you feel another. Agree to disagree. I hope you understand that.

[-Alpha]

Love the jab about N4G and people looking for anyone with a URL to feed in. It's funny because it is sadly true what constitutes for "news" here and the legions of fanboys who "argue" back with a juvenile thumbs down/thumbs up war.

[v1c1ous]

an employee gets asked a question, he answers honestly and in a manner not literally insulting a group of people (in this case ps3 fans on N4G;), but based on his own experiences and concerning the targeting of a specific demographic (in this case 360 fans overall).

that group of insulted people (ps3 fans on N4G; who at the same time en masse often start clamoring favorously when other communities are dissed; i.e. 360/wii fanbase) get led on by selective quoting without regarding the entire conversation and not take into account the context of the statement because the website looking for hits has found an easy venture on N4G.com.

and it somehow makes a simple remark into an explosion of finger pointing and name calling (i.e. lazy).

it used to be that when a developer wanted to develop for their console of choice, they could. it also used to be that you would quote entire conversations, not just cherry pick sentences for your flamebait articles.

N4G is turning into the fox news of gaming.

[Strikepackage Bravo]

if Kojima or some Japanese Sony developer came out and said, ANYTHING about the PS3 is head and shoulders above ANYTHING on 360, you would only hear praises from the fanboys, and not a peep from the phony journalists and writers on the internet.

[jmare]

Or the MSNBC of gaming?

EDIT: Above, times change. 2 years ago, if anybody said a word against the 360 they were just a pissed-off Sony fanboy. Now the pendulum has swung back and people are calling bullshit. Funny how it only bothers people when they disagree with the criticism.

[dreamcast]

"it used to be that when a developer wanted to develop for their console of choice, they could."

They still can... look at insomniac, suckerpunch, bioware until a few months ago. Nobody trashes these devs because they don't talk trash. I like Valve games a lot, but every other month it seems they come out with another reason not to develop on the ps3... just develop the games for PC/360 and say you're only developing it for that platform like insomniac does with PS3.

Having said that, people are foaming at the mouth about this for no reason at all. If you want to play Valve games that badly, get a 360 or PC good enough to run them (shouldn't be hard).

Also, isn't it funny that this article is also "biased and research-free"? Here's a tip: when writing an article condoning fanboyism, don't write stuff in the comments like "your side" when referring to PS3 fan(boys).

[cupogoodness]

The haters are actually going to my site to comment, thanks guys, most I've had in weeks!

[ElementX]

Read my comment above. You state that people come here for news from trusted sources, but then you spew your crap and submit it as an "article". You're not reputable, you're not an insider, you're just some Joe Schmoe.

[cupogoodness]

Yeah, I read your comment. I'm a Joe Schmoe no question, but fortunately for myself, and for many, that's all you need to be in this business to get started.

Many developers will take the time out to talk to you regardless of how popular you are, the only thing you need to become a game journalist is a URL and a need to get involved with the gaming community/industry. It's when people under prepare and don't fully care about what they're doing, just the end result (in this case traffic), that the integrity as a whole slips.

I have certainly been guilty of this in the past when I didn't respect this space as a community, but there are enough people around here I've seen/spoken to that have made me believe otherwise.

If you want you can ask for this article to be moved from my permalink to an N4G blog post, it doesn't make any difference to me if I get the hits, just whether or not people take the time to read it and understand that completely admitting any past transgressions with N4G, I'd like this site to return to what it was intended to be in the first place, a gaming news repository. Where the most important gaming news items are at the visible top and the opinion pieces are on some side page at the very least.

[maskedwarrior]

when compared to your previous forum post:

"Getting the articles I submit approved is really important to me, and when I don't think I've done anything wrong it's upsetting to have to deal with the perceived attitude of 'don't approve unless absolutely necessary' my articles consistently endure from both contributors and admins. While I understand I can't do much about contributors, I can use (and have used) this forum to express my issues and concerns to those who run the site, but since I have to defend myself regularly I believe I'm looked upon as someone who either complains a lot or as a troublemaker."

http://forums.n4g.com/fb.as...

Sounds like you really need the hits...

[Eddie20101]

The first part of your article does exactly what you are preaching about.

If you had read the majority of the post on that particular N4G post, they were pretty rational and were not wing nut crazy comments like your opening comment seems to portray. Your comment seems kinda wing nut crazy to me.

Reputable Gaming site staying low keyed:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsS...

This site along with many others reported on this man's comments, the owner of the company.

Valve has never made a PS3 game in house(actually developed it).
It has been reported that Valve was not very co operative with the EA developer of the Orange Box.

The Source engine is not really a next gen engine and if optimized for the PS3 would not even come close to maximizing what the system can do.

Most all the other third party developers have made Multi player games for the PS3. Activision, EA, and Ubi soft have reported better earnings on the PS3 platform than with the Xbox 360 platform.

Left 4 dead is a 4 player Co-Op game and this person involved in the development process is(and he says this like he is representing the opinion of the team) saying that the PS3 with it having sold 27 million units world wide does not have a large enough community for any one player to find 3 other players to play the game with them, that to me does not make sense. Weather the comment was meant to be derogatory or not, it still does not make much sense.

Why does the PS3 community even have to be compared to the Xbox 360 community, Yes the Xbox 360 community is larger than the PS3 community, but wasn't the Xbox 360 communty where the PS3 community is now last year, when the first left 4 Dead came out.

[bullaaaa]

...So successful troll is successful?

[00]

for the wrong reasons.

[v1c1ous]

i will make a free account on an unknown blog site, make a blog post about it, with a flamebait title and a question mark at the end to respond to your statement. i shall call this

"00 thinks N4G is wrong, is he biased agaisnt ps3?"

[00]

just to see what kinds of insults that would come up.

[YLOD Service Tech]

Basically look at all the PS3 articles. All backed by BS.

[Saaking]

Link?

[kws1065]

the picture tells me why Valve talks like that lol

Lazy greedy fat ass...

[Gen0ne]

... damn.

[Briefcase Joe]

N4G is filled with duplicate articles and reviews. The same thing said 100 times. 100 articles and 100 reviews for everthing. Either change the approved/denied system or live with the current one. I skip over most of the BS on this site. Everyone else should too.

[Godmars290]

Think the fact that we're hearing these comments, said from the heads of the company, seen nothing for the PS3, speaks more volumes than any Examiner article.

[Pandamobile]

Chet Faliszek isn't really anywhere near the top at Valve. He's a writer for christ's sake.

[v1c1ous]

why don't you just come out and say it "we want valve made games on the ps3. we don't want sloppy seconds"

[Godmars290]

They don't. But if they keep talking negatively about the console, instead of just saying they don't want to make a game for it, it would be nice if they could show some actual experience with it.

And no, I personally don't want any sloppy seconds from a company that has open contempt for the system they'd be putting it on.

@Pandamobile:
Meh, then find me someone who works at Valve who at the very least has said something neutral about the PS3.

Hell, as a writer how does he have any right giving an opinion about networks?

[Pandamobile]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Valve's marketing guy. His job is to be neutral.

Edit: I dunno, that's all I could..

[Elven6]

Just because they haven't released a retail game on the PS3 doesn't mean they haven't worked on or had experiences on the PS3. They could have tried stuff on the PS3 internally at Valve or even looked over The Orange Box PS3 source code.

Plenty of Sony exclusive developers haven't touched 360 or Wii hardware yet they make claims like "only possible on PS3", same goes for 360 and Wii developers in the same boat.

[Pandamobile]

You make an excellent point, Eleven.

[jmare]

I think there is a difference between talking up your game and the platform it's on and flat out saying this platform is bullshit and this other one is better.

[Elven6]

Jmare: Some examples,

http://gamer.blorge.com/200...

http://forums.exophase.com/...

http://ve3d.ign.com/article...

http://multiplayerblog.mtv....

They make comparisons to other consoles, be they small ones or more aggressive ones. Some are more logical while other more on the technical side of things, one that would require some knowledge of how the hardware works. Now of course on a site like this thanks to the fanboy problem you would only get criticized and called a "lazy dev", liar, etc if you say something can't be done on the PS3, many different developers from all over the place, exclusive or not make these kinds of statements, the problem is only some are bashed while others are canonized, at least on this site.

On the Valve topic, I do agree it sucks that PS3 owners aren't able to experience Valve games for what ever reason at times they are a bit harsh. Just because other developers do it [ie make similar statements about consoles] doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

Another thing that just came to me is GDC, a place where developers get together, attend seminars, etc that teach other developers how they can make better games not only on a technical aspect but storywise, art wise, etc.

[jmare]

I agree that developers do call out other platforms when making their claims, but out of those you posted, at least from the PS3 side, the developers are basing it on technical specs and the architecture of the Cell and the fact that the code wouldn't run if put onto the 360 as is. Valve so far is the only developer that has called the PS3 bullshit and a waste of time. There is a difference between the two. There is a way to sell yourself without being a total asshat.

[Godmars290]

That they wont even confirm that they worked on the Orange Box, couldn't be bothered to do patches and fixes like for the PC and 360 version of the game, their whole current attitude, strongly suggest that any experience they might have is very limited if it exists at all.

And once again, though PS3-only devs make the typical PR claims, they don't call the 360 or Wii outright inferior. Will always have the space card to play even with an 8GB title.

[The Lazy One]

how is claiming a single console outright superior different from claiming the other two are inferior?

[Godmars290]

No one except Valve is saying that. QD may say HR is a good fit on the PS3, but they don't talk (bad) about the 360. Not even Turn 10 attacks the PS3 much less GT, just claim that their game is its successor.

Its also generally understood that the Wii can't handle PS3/360 games, but considering its sales it can hardly be called inferior.

[dreamcast]

'why don't you just come out and say it "we want valve made games on the ps3. we don't want sloppy seconds"'

I guess the same reason Valve won't come out and say "we have a good relationship with MS and choose to solely develop on their platforms". Seriously, why don't they say this and leave it alone? Insomniac, Sucker Punch, and probably several others say it about Sony. I really don't see the difference between the smack that Valve has talked about PS3 and the bile that PS3 fanboys have talked about L4D. Both groups are grounded in some pretty backwards fanboy logic.

[Pandamobile]

Valve doesn't have much of a relationship with Microsoft, at least not in the way Insomniac does with Sony. They don't make PC games because of Microsoft. They make PC games because it's an open platform and that lets them do things the way they want. Gabe's gone on rants about Vista and the 360 too, not just the PS3.

[Myth-Psn]

Twists what people were angry about.They weren't angry about the statement about xbox live,but that it was the reason that was given for it not being on ps3.Clearly that isn't why, as the ps3 has a very successful and robust online gaming network, and it is an insult to sonys service, which is free, to give it as the reason for not releasing it on the platform, Entitled to their opinion?Yes, but don't lie and wrongfuly run down a service, which this guy at least knew nothing about, in what seems he said in an arrogant way. "Xbox live is head and shoulders above psn" "am i right"?

[ultimolu]

Exactly, it sounded arrogant. That was the annoying part. Nobody's attacking this guy for having an opinion. It's the way he worded it. How could they say XBL is head and shoulders above PSN *if* they never programmed a game for the PS3 or PSN? I don't care for extra features. PSN does what a free online system should do-provide freedom for my games.

That's what matters to me.

[Strikepackage Bravo]

are going to presume to tell us why Valve didn't develop a game for PS3 better than Valve can tell us.

You say PSN is free but that is the very reason Valve refuses to deal with it, Sony shifted all the costs from the consumer to the developer. So on the PSN the developers have to do all the work in getting the community features up to par. On live that work is done, PSN is a pain in the arse just like the rest of PS3 development is for developers, so he was telling the truth, you guys need to deal with it.

[ultimolu]

Bravo, you just hate the PS3. So if Valve knows best, then why other developers haven't shunned the PS3 or PSN?

If Valve prefers not to work with the PS3 or PSN, that's fine but they need to learn when to shut their mouths. It still doesn't give them the right to attack the PS3 or it's features.

Do you see Bungie ganging up on the PS3 or PSN? No. They prefer to work with the PS3.

But you go right ahead Valve defender. Defend them with ever fiber of your being.

I salute you!

[ultimolu]

And I am not proven wrong! Actually, I meant they would prefer working with the 360.

[CLANCY BROWN]

xbox live is heads and shoulders above psn. The community is much more lively and engaged.There is a gaming culture on xbl. Not so much on psn.

[Nitrowolf2]

Valve is a great company for making games. But the things they say are pretty hateful toward PS3. I mean wouldn't it just be easy for them to just say a real reason that they don't develope for ps3. Its there company they could do what ever they want with it, thats the truth. But i mean how come allot of article lately when they are spoken 2 they have to sneak something in that attacks the ps3. Honestly thats just ruins your reputation with sony fanboys, i would have allot more respect if they sat there and just developed games for 360/pc and not say anything rather then attack every chance you get. So the online communtity thing, Couldn't they just say something like" The reason we like to develope games is because we want to bring people together and have a fun time, rather then say you know what. I still like the games valve make, i think they made counterstrike wich is one of my and still favorite game for PC of all time. I don't care that they only are doing Pc and 360, i can get over that, but i saying that there are allot of company that also do PC games with only ps3 or 360 but they don't sit there and try to diss the other system. Like i said i like Valve games, but the company has lost my respect.

But i think i said it somewhere, valve can develope for any console they choose, only issue i got is that they don't need to diss the other ones. If they dev for ps3 and pc only (or even PC only) and diss the 360(and ps3) that still would not be right for them, i don't think its right for any devs to do that, it only makes them looks bad if they don't give a clear and resonable reason on why they don't.

@some of the comment above about valve saying things: Thats not the only thing they said about the ps3, The reason why fanboys probaly have issue with it is awhile back i beleive gabe just said he doesn't like the ps3 at all. Im not sure if he said that, if someone can correct me please do.

Edited again: Look at post 1.8 those are the reason why most ps fanboy are hating on valve

[pixelsword]

Go to examiner.com

:)

[Myth-Psn]

Really? I didn't know the psn has less players, can you back that statement up with facts?If i remember corectly there was more PSN accounts than xbox live accounts per million ps3 users, And now i could imagine with the recent boost the psn has moved ahead of live users.Thats to be expected of course, all ps3 owners can "jump in" and play online free of charge, instantly strayight out of the box.Even if PSN had less players, that still doesnt make it a "inferior" online system.

[NecrumSlavery]

Edge

[Unicron]

It's been run into the ground, but THIS is what bugs me -

No, Valve's opinion doesn't matter becuase they talk trash about the PS3 and HAVE NEVER DEVELOPED A GAME ON IT.

You don't want to dev on it, don't dev on it. But then don't comment on it either. That's just my two cents peoples.

[ultimolu]

Oh crap, you made sense. :T

That is not allowed my friend. This is N4G!

[kraze07]

If they didn't comment on it wouldn't we be asking why they won't dev for it?

[jmare]

I'm really beginning to wonder why Valve gets so much love any more. I understand why they don't want to make games on the PS3: Because they would have to redo their Source engine. They have been di<king around with that thing for years.

And it's getting to the point where their games seem like nothing more than elaborate HL2 mods. They're entitled to their opinion, but until they actually grow a pair and work with the PS3, their opinion is worthless because they have nothing other than their own personal biases to base it on.

EDIT: I like how you assume I've never played a Valve game because I must be a PS3 only fanboy. I remember playing the first HL and it was actually good. Then Valve made the source engine and they haven't done a fuking thing since. Seriously. All of the games they have done sine HL2 look like they could have been mods, which, technically, they are. The engine hasn't changed in how many years? They've tweaked it, sure, but they haven't really done anything out of their comfort zone and yet people praise them like they're geniuses when all the have done is take from the mod community for the last decade.

[Strikepackage Bravo]

because they make great games for PC and Xbox 360, you see not everyone is completely obsessed with the Playstation 3, those of us who don't own one, could care less about them developing on it or not, so why shouldn't we respect Valve, they are still making great games for other platforms.

[baraka007]

Bias = I don't agree with you... everyone knows that unless they are bias ;)

[Saaking]

No, bias means you favor one thing over another when you should treat both equal.

[00]

I disagree *vroom*

[jmare]

3 a : bent, tendency b : an inclination of temperament or outlook; especially : a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment : prejudice c : an instance of such prejudice

[TheBand1t]

I do kinda agree. Can get a little out of hand at times.

Still, why should you care what Valve says? I stopped caring what people thought about me in the 3rd grade. I'm sure as heck not gonna lose any sleep over what a company says about my console of choice.

Besides. Valve games play 10x better on a PC.

[chrisulloa]

Seems like SDF wrote this.

[CernaML]

Now who exactly is SDF then? Because this article sounds like they are defending Valve.

[Pandamobile]

They are defending Valve.

[Saaking]

Chris, you have once again owned yourself.

[Ilikegames76]

zero reading comprehension. Typical of a moronic bot.

[Myth-Psn]

That "reason" given by valve is pure BS, It isnt stopping FFXIV coming to ps3, and maybe only ps3, as square enix is having difficulties with microsoft over its live system.Microsoft charges consumers aswell as developers to host on live and set up servers, so dont give me that BS about PSN costing more for the developers, they just give them more independance to do what they wish, And any dev who would actually despise that and not release their game on the ps3 is just a fanboy at heart.Valves real disdain for the ps3 comes from its difficult architechture, and their belief that sony used difficult architecture in order to alienate other systems in favour of ps3, not this BS about inferior online, see here: http://www.youtube.com/watc... ,a little into it.

[Pandamobile]

Yeah, and for Valve, a PC developer, working with the PS3 would hail no benefits to the PC side of development. At least with the 360, it uses a similar CPU architecture to PC and it helped Valve jump in to better multi threading their games.

If the PS3 had the PC-similar CPU architecture, and the 360 had the overly complex hybrid CPU, guess what console Valve's games would be on.

[jack who]

all cause you dont like what he says? lolz

[Halo3 MLG Pro]

How to Spot a Biased, Research-Free Article?

Well for one stay away from sites like the Examiner which is essentially a blog.

[bujasem_89]

then wife , there seems to be an odd mention of his wife up there???

could it be shes hot??

[Figboy]

and favorer of Microsoft consoles, has spewed the level of vitriol towards the PS3 as Valve has.

i hold John Carmack's opinion WAAAAAAY over Valve's opinion of the PS3. why? because Id and Carmack are actually DEVELOPING a game on the Playstation 3, and have at least given the rather complex architecture a spin.

i could understand Valve saying they'd prefer to develop for the PC and 360 because it's what they know, but why the hate towards the PS3? how is that proving their point either way?

PS3 fans aren't angry or bitter they aren't getting Left4Dead (which is what the gaming media likes to twist it to), we're upset because Valve is constantly insulting the PS3 and it's userbase when it's not called for.

a simple: "We aren't developing games for the PS3 because we are a PC/Xbox 360 centric developer," would have sufficed.

insulting the online community by implying that they don't play together, and calling the PS3 "trash," saying Sony should have pulled it from the shelves and apologized is a totally different matter.

Carmack from Id may have his personal preference for Microsoft consoles and the PC platform, but when he criticizes the PS3 he does it with honesty, and, more importantly, FIRST HAND experience with the PS3 SDK's and it's features.

Valve didn't even do The Orange Box on the PS3, preferring instead to have EA farm it out to a dev to port it.

they're opinion of the PS3 holds no weight, and is not needed. the Playstation 3 has proven itself the past 3 years as an incredible gaming console, with games that are, quite literally, and inarguably, the most impressive in the industry from a game design standpoint, to a technical standpoint (point to a game on any other platform non-PC that is as technically advanced as Killzone 2 and Uncharted 2; you CAN'T; it's EXPECTED for the PC to have cutting edge tech, but not consoles. the PS3 is cutting edge. FACT).

[CrizzleC24]

I remember when this site was actually three different sites ps3news wiinews 360news

It merged into N4G and I was fine with that, I thought it'd be more universal

This site used to be civil

This site used to be for N4G (news for gamers)

Somewhere around 06-07 a lot of ps3 users started to push big time until 360 users bowed out of the flame war.

Wii users....well they always behave, I dont even know if there is a such thing as a Wii flame war

Now sadly N4G has become news 4 playstation users.

N4G has become something very sad and I wish we could all just be separated into the old websites, unless something changes big time.

I google'd n4g and if you notice results even the INTERNET agrees

In fact google image search N4G and you'll get an even better picture of what goes on here on a constant basis...

I am a wii603 (yes all three)

and I have little to no faith in this site anymore (dont believe me? check my user account activity on n4g)

better yet check my bubbles

[Blaine]

Your comment firmly makes you a 360 fanboy. Blaming PS3 fanboys for a site's community's turning to sh!t is pathetic.

People like you who blame PS3 fanboys just don't seem to understand or remember how AWFUL the PS3 bashing was when the console was launched. It came from left, right, and center. EVERY media outlet was bashing the PS3 for NO REASON whatsoever other than propaganda and poor research.

So, naturally, PS3 fans had to fight back hard, and we did. The hate was BAD, but we weren't gonna bend over and take it and let our console get bashed unfairly. So don't blame us for responding to the media's insults and the 360 userbase specifically.

[CrizzleC24]

Clearly you are a Sony fanboy

You talk about your fight against Ps3 bashing in the early years, and yet after the Ps3fanboys won, the 360 still gets bashed here along with the wii.

I would say "We should all..." but since 360 users have fled this site. I am saying Sony Fanboys should be more like wii fanboys....

Peaceful restrained and not falling/created into flamewars

Sony fanboys are yelling at nothing, there is little to no xbox or wii users on this site anymore,those that are dont log in because we will be flamed, worse yet even owning a ps3 wont keep the flamewars from starting

[lavitz]

Sad but true.

@ Blaine- Dude look around you. Read the comments people post on this site and it's pretty clear who the majority of people are loyal to.

[ultimolu]

You're kidding me, right? This was 360 fan land when I first came here. Couldn't say anything positive about the PS3 without being attacked. It has no games! Online sucks! Sony sucks!

But whatever, what do I know anyway?

[acere]

keep getting own.lol soon u got no bubbles

[DelbertGrady]

Cry beyond.

[minimartin91]

link has a trojan virus ..

[GodGinrai]

posted by "mark" comments section on that site.."N4G is an utter cesspool occupied by Sony bottom feeders." i cant front, i lmao readin that iv read similar comments about this site elsewhere on the web. you got quiet the rep N4G, buts its not a good rep at all.

edit, taken from the article: "Reading the top material on N4G for a day or so gives you an understanding of what the majority of readers are looking for when they come to the site. They're looking for legit game developers/journalists anyone with a URL to write an article that pushes their buttons, so in turn they can express their anger into what they feel is a completely reasonable response. Trolls are fed, flame wars rise, and most importantly the article benefits from it"

sums the psycology of the average n4g comment poster to me..

[get2sammyb]

Oh the irony.

[DigitalAnalog]

Simple,

Just go to N4G.com.

-End Statement

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

With Gabe he complains about being a developer, anyone who studies programming will know what was taught to you will most likely be obsolete later on. What Gabe complains about is just that, for example he might say I don't know any multi-threading programming - just for example purposes not what he exactly said, - well that's part of the job description relearning every so often. This is why I say Gabe is a bad programmer because the things he talks about is what makes him a programmer, what you learned will never stay for long.

As with the article I don't think the writer went to college, for example:

"4. Does the author blindly insist that the person/place/thing in question shut up as they incessantly continue to voice their own clearly biased opinion?"

- Erik Johnson, Examiner.com

What does this have to do with being bias in an article? Being rude doesn't make one bias, lol.

[PS360PCROCKS]

Ahahaha!

"Is the article on N4G between 500-1,000,000 degrees, with a title that ends in either a question mark or a controversial statement in the absence of legitimate news or valid insight?"

"Does the author outright tell the audience they're biased by prefacing his/her 'opinion piece' with something along the lines of: "Granted I write my column on a Playstation website, that gives me a vested interest in the Sony side of things."?"

welcome to n4g....

[Digital Commando]

People whine about Valve not making any PS3 games, but no one gives a f*** about Inosomniac not making any 360 or Wii games!

[dreamcast]

wrong post

[CLANCY BROWN]

If you ps3 people were as vocal over psn as you are here at n4g then Valve would not have a point. Nobody talks on psn- the community is dead. Ghost town is an appropriate description.Again the ps3 community is all talk no action.Not buying games, not buying headsets,not playing games but only watching bluray and surfing porn on the crappy ps3 browser.I have never seen a worse bunch of crybabies in my life. You guys are really ruining Sony's name this gen, and it really does show the level of maturity in the psn community (at least here on n4g)

[emjayx]

I find it hilarious for these websites to rely on an aggregator site to get hits.

[chad22hkd]

Just go to IGN or Gametrailers to see that!!!!!!!!!!!!