Games + Low Sales = Flops? No

Jonathan Cullen, GOONL!NE Managing Editor: "You know what really grinds my gears? People that think that low sales for games mean that they're flops. If they were crap games, understandable, an example would be, in my opinion, Too Human for the Xbox 360.

But now, it seems that no matter how great a game is, even sales of a game is now considered a flop if they're low enough. And thats the perfect ammo for fanboys on either side of the fence."

[jack who]

Games + Low Sales = Flops? No

Games + Hype + Low Sales = Flops? Yes

Games + Hype + Low score on review + Low Sales = Flops? Yes

Games + Crazy Hype + Low Sales = Flops? Yes

Flopping 101

[MURKERR]

fanboys are running out of things to bash the ps3 about, it used to be bluray,lack of games,multiplats, online component...all this has been rectified so they grasp on to so called 'low sales'. sony games have always sold in a steady flow, 360 games on the other hand sell all at once then suddenly halt halo and gears great examples...kz2 and littlebigplanet are over the 1 million and 2million mark respectively and are still in the top 40 game charts thats the way sony games are.

sony has the greatest line up of first party games impending i think ive ever seen from them plus the multiplats its a good time to be a gamer even more so a ps3 owner fanboys need to to stop grasping and just enjoy games on your console of choice

[Omega4]

"360 games on the other hand sell all at once then suddenly halt halo and gears great examples"

http://blog.wired.com/games...

Your defiantly right their cause i dont see Halo 3 in the top 20 two years after its release, and LBP is sure hanging strong -_-

The fact is the only reason why ANY of those PS3 game are still seen in any charts is because they were all bundled with consoles or had some radical price cut like LBP going as low as £10. And all games continue to sell after their release anyway because it would be stupid for a publisher to stop shipments a year after the game when on sale. The only difference between Sony and MS games is that MS have massive debuts AND have extremely long legs without bundling while Sony games have mediocre debuts and only continue to sell with bundling.

And jack who is right. Games which dont have hype (like say Okami, SotC, Madworld) and sell poorly arent flops. But game which are hyped to the moon and back (like Killzone 2, LBP) and sell poorly are flops.

[Why o why]

only in your world omega

[MURKERR]

gears 2 is under £15 your point is?and how many bundles have microsoft announced recently? if your going to debate make sure your noting points that microsoft arent doing also....duh

omega your the stupidest fanboy of epic proportions on N4G, it has to be said, GET A LIFE

[Omega4]

Aaaahhhhh did i hit a nerve there MURKERR getting a bit sensitive to the truth eh?

Sure MS have announced some bundles but at least they didnt release them on the day their exclusives came out to ensure that they sold at least 1ml in their liftime

[ultimolu]

And you play sales instead of games!

Yayz!

Wii Fit rox!

[Unicron]

But "hype" is not a constant, and is entirely subjective based on where you look. For instance, a game that is "hyped" on N4G doesn't necessarily apply to the rest of the gaming community at large. A game hyped by one media outlet to get hits may be ignored by another. Also, how does one measure hype? Can anyone truly say Infamous or Prototype, for example, are " heavily hyped" games If so, does that mean if Infamous only sells 200,000 copies first month, it will not be labeled a "flop" by all the wondrous trolls here because it's not a majorly "hyped" game?

Of course it will be labeled as such, because fanboys will cry about anything they can with any excuse they can. All the while, people are missing out on great games on all systems. It's a defense mechanism, if the game is a "flop" by some instance, such as sales, then you can fool yourself into thinking you aren't missing out on something great. In the end, you're just being a fool. We should be celebrating games achievements, not looking for reasons to tear titles down.

I said it before, I'll say it again. The term flop is tossed about far too easily in this day and age, by people that do NOT work in the industry and are basically armchair analysts. Fanboys flinging mud at fanboys, it's pathetic. But hey, it's N4G, I should know better by now.

[MURKERR]

though microsoft do it like in japan resi5/rpg bundles,its called business....i suggest cut down on the shooting games and go buy a DS with brain training

[Omega4]

MS do it in Japan because they are struggling in Japan obviously. Sony do it worldwide because they're struggling...........well im sure you can finish that sentence :)

[MURKERR]

than microsoft did in the same timeframe at a higher.....well im sure you can finish the sentence

[Why o why]

shhhhsh. dont forget about the inconvenient truth of the 360 having a year headstart against NO competition or that the ps3 has always been more expensive at the same points in their cycles....... shhhsh, we're not meant to factor that into this because they dont acknowledge it :)

[Christopher]

Honestly, hype should be removed from your equation since it's created by the gaming community most of the time now and not the developers/publishers of the game.

It was the gaming community that created the hype around Killzone 2, Haze, Resistance 2, and more. For the most part it was used in senseless attempts to somehow validate the console, which doesn't need validating in the first place. But, even with this hype, 2 of those ended up not being flops and the one that was a flop was due to poor gameplay and nothing more.

Gamers have created a sense of entitlement with games, especially exclusive titles. They set their own requirements for certain games to certain levels and spread them on the Internet, creating hype for a game that is sure to be a failure in their eyes no matter how good it is.

[JokesOnYou]

1st of all let me state the obvious: A games worth/quality no matter how good or how bad= reviews/personal opinion IS subjective.

So the problem is IF you are going to hold any type of conversation or public debate on such an subjective medium then the validity of ANY statements about a games quality will be based on historic indicators that statisticly point to quality.

Ultimately Sales, Reviews, and a Products Revelance or Longevity in a its intended market are historic indicators which for better or worse determine Quality= Mass Appeal.

Now heres where you have to be smarter than just looking at numbers because as with any statistic or historical data there are always for the lack of a better term "flukes"= fads or exceptions to the rule, however you have to be careful NOT to judge a positive or negative trend to quickly as a "fluke" because of personal motives. Wii & wii fit are great examples of this because as *hardcore gamers we ignore/downplay their value/quality because we see them as being subpar/inferior gaming experiences, however that in itself is why they excel because Wii & Wii fit core gameplay experience is not hardcore/traditional type gaming thus it sells so well because its MORE appealing to the casual & non-traditional gaming market. In other words Wii has carved out its own market which caters to non-traditional gamers(the ones who would never have sat down for 2hrs to play Zelda, Half Life, or FF), which fortunately for nintendo just happens to be the vast majority of the worlds population. Now I'm not going to say nintendo should not be in any game related comparison with sony & micro but for these reasons I think ANY sales comparison or debate about quality is pointless because the experience the wii offer appeals to two very different demographics and the potential consumer demographic that nintendo appeals to is much bigger.

Now finally again IF we're going to talk about a games quality and what is or isn't a flop then YES sales are a huge part of the discussion. Ultimately quality products almost always have higher sales over subpar products in the same market. Again, there are flukes/fads/exceptions to the rule but those exceptions do NOT change the overall idea that statisticly speaking great games have great sales...simply put just because there are examples that according some were great/quality games that did NOT sell well does not mean that sales no longer indicate quality, most of us will agree that this does happen from time to time but even then we are guilty of ignoring the usual indicators of quality because of our personal/emotional motives.

In the end the trying to argue against sales as a indicator of quality is useless, such are the screams of a gamer who is emotionally attatched to a game that failed commercially, I feel your pain, we all have "that game" we loved but didn't get the attention it deserved(in our opinion but that doesn't make it true). Sales have ALWAYS been a PUBLIC INDICATOR of quality and always will be, games that don't meet their expected sales success are indeed considered commercial flops, which of course has all kinds of implications for future sequels and affects the dev studio as a whole. Now of course if you personally love the game then for you its quality and with the exception of what low sales mean for the future, if you love the game then thats all that REALLY matters.

JOY

[WildArmed]

right right.
sales mean everythign at the end of the day.
no wonder Wii is pawning every1's ass.
Look at Wii Fit..
everyone FAILS.

happy now?

[aaron5829]

Really...

Back in 2006, games flopped because of performance is worse than the competitor, Then came 1 game with hype, but failed miserable...

Then, we're talking about sales now....

What's next ?

Not getting 9.5 / 10 in metacritic becomes a flop ?

The boys are persistent arent they...

[Ahmay]

Flop games = low sales

low sales does not = a flop game

[farhsa2008]

couldn't agree more with the author, xbot fans could learn a thing or two.

[Lex Luthor]

By their logic where is my Shenmue 3?
Game sales do ultimately matter.

[zenosaga04]

Actually sales don't matter at all, it's profit that ultimately matters. A game can sell millions of copies, but cost millions of dollars to make and can end up costing the company money and not making a profit. While other lower budgeted games that sale fairly well end up making the company a profit and see many sequels.

[STK026]

Sales matter, no doubt, however, if you're a big publisher with a console like MS, Sony or Nintendo, it might actually be worth continuing a franchise if that franchise is some kind of icon for your console. I'm pretty sure Nintendo wouldn't stop making mario games even if one of them were to sell poorly.

However, if you're without a console (like Sega was after shenmue 2), there's no reason to puit money on a franchise that doesn't sell well enough.

In other words, for publishers, a game will get a sequel if the first one made profit. For a console maker, it might be worth it to continue a franchise if it helps define your console.

[Noctis]

Sales don't make up whether a game is good or not. Stop bragging that Halo Wars is better than Killzone 2 just because it sold more.

[00]

one game being better than the other, but putting salt on the wound and having them eat crow however that only happens to fanboys.

[ultimolu]

Sales isn't what makes a game great. Playing the game for yourself and judging it for what it is makes it great.

[poopsack]

dont tell them that, they might actually go outside and buy some games instead of spending all day here talking sh!t.

[ultimolu]

Lol, I know right?

[Snake Raiser]

KnaveX- nice pic. Is there actually a red PS3 controller?

On topic- To me a game is a flop if it:
1: Is a bad game.
AND 2: has low sales.
AND 3: Doesn't even have a nitch following.
If a game is all three of these things then it is a flop to me.

[00]

.

[Pheonix03]

Okami is the biggest example of this. It didn't sell well, but is absolutely one of the greatest games ever created. and it won several Game of the Year awards, too.

[ultimolu]

Exactly.

Godhand is another example. It didn't get good reviews and it probably sold like crap.

But if someone actually played it, it's a real gem among PS2 games. It's hard as hell though and I damn near broke my PS2 controller though. :|

[Phantom_T]

When I'm checking backs of cases in shops,I do not see a sign saying
"Amount of sales directly represents the enjoyment recieved from game"

[Foxgod]

Then what are they, a grand success ?

[gambare]

when you play the game and YOU want to play them again and again. then you can be sure the game is huge

[Foxgod]

if a couple of people think that way, then its still not a success, its niche then.
At most something unpopular could be a cult hit.

[gambare]

it's a niche yes but a good game cannot be based on how popular is, just look at shenmue.

[Foxgod]

shenmue is a cult hit, aka popular title among a small group.
Many people dont give a dong about Shenmue, me included, i found it one of the most boring games i had on my DC.

[gambare]

yes, but that doesn't make it a flop, the game was great, awesome, even if unpopular or boring to some it doesn't make it less than an awesome game.

another example? vampire: masquerade

[Snake Raiser]

Why don't we all STFU about specific games.
To me a game is a flop if it:
1: Is a bad game.
AND 2: has low sales.
AND 3: Doesn't even halve a nitch following.
If a game is all three of these things then it is a flop to me.

[NegativeCreep427]

But hell, Too Human was F'n hyped for more than a decade, yet I find it so funny how those 360 fanboys totally disregard that game like it never existed. Like when people repress horrible times in their lives so hard that they start to believe it never happened.

"just because it’s low in sales doesnt actually mean that it is a flop, it depends on the quality of the game."

That is good to hear, just for the assurance that good adult sense and logic are still prevalent in our world.

@ The Mart Below:

Yet the hype behind Too Human was far greater than those titles. The hype for Too Human followed for more than 10 years.

Oh thats right. That game was just a media fabrication by PS3 fanboys right Mart? It never existed right? Its all just a bunch of B.S. right?

Ignorance truly is bliss, isn't it Mart?

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

Sales do not determine the fun and quality of a game, or for any product for that matter.

I know the 360 fanboys will disagree with this. They love playing with those sales numbers.

[Unicron]

It is amazing, I've never seen such a thing in all my years of gaming. Every month fanboys run to claim victory because of sales numbers. And it's always the same fanboys too, it's hilariously pathetic. While I love discussing the industry, I miss the days of talking about the games instead of attach ratios!

I feel bad for the gamers who just prefer the 360 for their gaming needs, as these people are making them look like idiots. Then again, the Ps3 fanboys aren't much better... all the while the Wii boys are brooding in the corner since Miyamoto abandoned them. Heh.

[Snake Raiser]

The funniest thing is when people don't even know what a sales flop is.
I see how sales are important, but as long as a console can beat the Game cube's life time sales, its not going anywhere. If a game sells more than 250k then it is known. If it sells more than 1mil. then it sold well. KZ2 has sold over 1mil already, I estimate lifetime sales of over 3 mil. That is better than 90% of those other games out there!

[Johnny Cullen]

"BTW, its not just 360 owners who use that as ammo, it’d be PS3 owners, Wii owners, whatever.

Everyone’s guilty in being invovled somehow in using sales as ammo towards a big fanboy war."

So PS3 owners, dont just go pointing the finger all of a sudden to the 360 or the Wii, everyone is just as guilty as the other.

[Snake Raiser]

And well written. Hope to see more from you guys soon. This is one blog that should be approved in a heartbeat.

[TheMART]

"If they were crap games, understandable, an example would be"

You forgot the best examples:

2007: Lair
2008: Haze

Both exclusive for... Right.

[gambare]

better not talk about exclusive flops there mart or everybody will start a list starting with Too human

[Foxgod]

plenty of flop on the ps3, while the 360 only got one.

[NegativeCreep427]

Vampire Rain?

Ninja Blade?

Banjo Kazooie?

Have you Ever heard of em???

And those are just the titles that I can think of off the top of my head.

*Sigh* Delusions, Delusions.

[Foxgod]

Vampire Rain, is a niche title, how can a niche title flop in the first place.

Ninja Blade and Banjo sold more then a million copies, so they dont apply as flops.

[Bathyj]

Where'd you get those numbers Fox. You're just a flatout liar.

Games that sold less than Haze, so must be flops as well.

Ace Combat
Too Human
Last Remenant
C&C:TW
Kameo
Blue Dragon
Scene it. Both Versions
Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts
Naruto: Both Versions
Indefinate Undiscovery
Two Worlds
Lips
Chromehounds
Shadowrun
Star Ocean
You're in the Movies
+ about 100 multiplat games

I could go on but my fingers are getting tired.

[Fishy Fingers]

:)

[Johnny Cullen]

LOL you caught on ;D

I'd give you bubbles, but your maxed out! Still, consider an IOU if you ever need any :D

[ShabzS]

otherwise you end up with a fun game like XIII with a cliffhanger ending and no sequel...

now we'll never know what happened

[Phantom_T]

Alot of PS3 fanboys like to say "sales don't make a good game",
But if the PS3 was in first place and games shifted like Halo,I can guarantee that they wouldn't flinch from using the sales argument.

[Unicron]

Justification. Insecure fanboys need it, regardless of affiliation.

[Why o why]

unless i become a shareholder or gameshop owner..

[AKNAA]

PS3 exclusives+ Great reviews+ low sales= flops, But only in the eyes of a 360 Fanboy...

hmmm.. I don't know/ or care to know the sales of ninja blade, but isn't that game a microsoft exclusive Flop(360 exclus.+ hyped+ bad reviews= True Flop) and I didn't even add low sales in the equation?!

[Boink]

no,

is a games success measured by sales?

it's a huge part of it.

author of the article is dumb and missed the point completely. sounds like another fanboy that's angry that his favorite title didn't sell well...

[Sez]

It's a flop when a game gets lot of hype but doesn't sell to the masses. Games like LBP,KZ2,ECT. Which mean that only internet fanboys shared the views of the reviewer and thought the game was worth buying. AAA games are base off the reviewers opinion of the game. If people don't share the same sentiments as the reviewer. Than it's a sales flop. A business is run on money from people buying a game. Not on a score the reviewer gives it.

Edit: to the person that disagreed. Are you saying a business is run on a score. Please show me a business that is still around because it got good scores.

[Shane Kim]

And who is to decide that? You? What is the minimum requirements in sales for a game to not be a flop? Just because games like GT, Halo and GTA has sold xx million copies doesn't make them much more games than for example, Shadow of the Colossus.

I really can't understand the sales argument and I don't understand why you bots care so much about it. You hate the PS3 so why would you want it to secceed? You hate Sony, you don't own shares in Sony so why bother? Is it because you lack other arguments? Is sales the only thing bots have nowadays?

[Man_of_the_year]

i have to agree with you. People buy what they find is worth their money. If a small % of an install base buys a particular game then its a flop, as it was a niche title that just doesn't appeal to the general public.

Reviewers can give a game a great score and it doesn't sell which would be a flop and reviewers can give a title a bad score yet the genre of title may sell millions which wouldn't be a flop as more people want that type of product.

Back in the day Sony made a type of media called BETA and also VHS. The quality of BETA was much better than VHS and Sony didn't think anyone would want VHS as it was lower quality so they sold the rights to 3rd parties and kept BETA as their own...well BETA failed completely and VHS took off. It doesn't matter about how great or how poor a product or service is...what matters is the demand for that product or service. In this case VHS had a higher demand and thus the BETA flopped.

In cases of great games in the Sony library, it cost money and man-power to create them and if they don't sell X amount of copies then the company doesn't see a return. It may be the greatest game ever made but if nobody buys it then the company will not see returns or even break even. Which could cause to bankruptcy or being bought by other parties like EA or SE.

Bottom line...if the game doesn't sell to the masses and has a low demand then its a flop, especially if the game was HYPED up by the media and its followers for years. Regardless of what the media label it as, AAA or BBB.

[Sez]

what are you butthurt because games like KZ2,LBP didn't sell like sonyfanboys and sony claimed it would. you don't have to have "minimum requirements in sales" to know that not many people was not as hyped for this games as you and sony thought it would be. and just because a reviewer like/dislikes a game. don't mean everyone that own the system will/won't run out an buy a game.

as i said before. a score is an opinion of the reviewer.in reality the people that buy the game opinion counts (sales).no i don't have stock in any company.neither do you. and yes i hate sony. just as you hate MS. but the diffrence between me and you is.

1)i own a ps3-which was given to me as a gift.
2) i buy games for it-which is more than i can say for most people on this site.

do you own a 360? i bet not. yet you on here more times than not bashing the 360. you hate MS and don't want them to secceed. is it because sony is not the king of consoles this "gen". is it because more people are buying wii/360 over ps3. and the only region you have left is japan. is that the real reason why sonyfanboy hate sales. and sale determine people interest. which could lead to a sequel in the series.

@Man_of_the_year

your the only one that gets it. thats the problem with sonyfanboys. they are under the impression that everyone will buy (insert game here) because the reviewer gave it great scores or it has the best graphics. in there opinion if a game doesn't have KZ2 graphic or a score like LBP. then it's not good or not quality. i asked anyone that disagreed with me to show me a company that stays in business based on score and not money (sales) no one can.

maybe if these disagreer's would run out and buy these games. instead of just buying what the reviewer thinks is AAA. then we wouldn't see many articles claiming did (insert game here) fail?.

[Deadman64]

Good points Vega.

[Bathyj]

If he wrote this article in the openzone, he could just say Xbots.

[Spike47]

Killzone 2 is a great game not a flop.

[ApocalypseShadow]

beyond good and evil-low sales-not a flop-awsome game

zoe2-low sales-not a flop-awsome game

psychonauts-low sales-not a flop-awsome game

okami-low sales-not a flop-awsome game

oddworld:munch's oddysee-low sales-not a flop-awsome game

only when 360 "FANS" got locked into the bullsh!t that microsoft has tossed around with stupid numbers did we get things like:

"if it's not AAA or not a 90 score,it's a flop."

"if it doesn't sell 5 million at launch,it's a flop."

but real gamers on both sides know that a good game is a good game no matter how many copies it sells.

stop living and breathing microsoft's crap with all these numbers.next it will be "how many gamers signed on and off XBL" records.or "how many gamers downloaded and watched one netflix movie."

who gives a f#ck.

apocalypse...............

[CobraKai]

If you apply this to the movie industry, low ticket sales, no matter how awesome a movie is, is usually seen as a flop. Even if it ekes past the movies budget and turns somewhat of a profit, it is seen as a bomb.

[redsquad]

Well, I'm sampling the beauty of VALKYRIA CHRONCILES right now (thanks to everyone who nudged me in it's direction by the way).
It's beautiful, compelling, charming and engaging, yet in the eyes of the 'sales drones' it's a 'flop'.

If any individual who purports to play games for entertainment uses sales as an indicator of how 'successful' a title is rather than how it entertains them personally, then they have no business being part of this hobby as far as I'm concerned.

[kewlkat007]

A game that is suppose to do a lot based on

-Dev Hype,
-It's Big Budget
-Reviews,
-Development time,
-Fanboy's(The second coming of),
-Proclaimed to be some type of Killer,
-Proclaimed to be the best in it's genre,

and yet, does not meet the "Mass Appeal" of it's intended fanbase based on some of that "criteria" above, can be considered a FLOP.

We can look at FACTS(sales..etc) and argue on the types of games/genre that usually does very well and should sell very well to the fanbase and their perspective markets/niche.
Once you start putting 1 and 1 together and it just doesn't add up, you start to scratching your head, as to why, a certain game, just do not have that same "Mass Appeal/Sales", as other games that could be compared to it, have.

Of course, there is more to it but that depends on the game and platform, were talking about.

[Snatcher]

Yes. Oh...wait, we got one masterpiece...Movie gear solid 4.

[eagle21]

You know 8 for LittleBigPlanet including Game of The Year, 1 for MGS4, and handheld GOTY God of War: Chains of Olympus?

Microsoft walked away wondering how all those horrible bugs were in Gears and Fable. lol

My lord, it will be like that at next Febuary's AIAS too. Just go and delusionally write GOTY in magic marker on Ninja Blade or any other critical flop on 360 cause it's going to FAIL at award shows. :)

[Snake Raiser]

Where do you get your numbers? MGS4 got at least 10 by itself... and LBP got 8.... at one show!

[DNAgent]

"Bu...Bu...But teh salez!"

http://i18.photobucket.com/...

[Deadman64]

lol you honestly wish you could use the sales card dont you? Sony just doesnt deal the sales card anymore.

:'(

[Lord Vader]

I thought that if a game was good it sold good...

If a game is bad, it dont sell well...

Smells like a Fanboy article to me.

Every form of media & every other product created by man is gaged by sales. Welcome to reality.

Sorry fanboys:

Bad Sales = Flop !!!

You may like a game like Haze for instance, thats your opinion,... but in terms of sales & how many other ppl liked the game = FLOP.

PERIOD. Go ask Sony, Micro, Nintendo, or any developer out there & ask them what matters the most.... SALES !!!!

[kesvalk]

so, you really think okami and shenmue are bad games?

you must be too new in gaming to say something like that...
think before you post man...

[redsquad]

We're not talking about Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony, we're talking about us: People who (allegedly) play games because they enjoy them.

If HALO 3 had only sold 2,000,000, would those who played and enjoy it suddenly say "bleh, don't like this as it's a flop"?

[Spike47]

most of the hype comes from the media, you need to realize that hype comes from fanboys either ways and xbox360 fanboys are no exception. However, either way the true source of the hype comes from the media because they can make it spread like wildfire. Anyway, titles like Killzone 2, MGS4, and LBP did incredibly well in terms of quality. Sales depend on marketing, not as much as hoW good a game is, sadly.

As for the 09 lineup, the PS3's lineup defenitly has more to offer. However, I don't think MS is going to sit around and do nothing. At the end of the day 2009 will be very similar to 2008 in terms of quality games in which both systems are in a tie in my opinion. It seems this time the PS3 has slight advantage, but I wouldn't underestimate the media and MS.

[Spike47]

Umm yes sales do matter and Killzone 2's sales were actually good not bad. Sony even mentioned that they were happy with the results not to mention Killzone 2 made a record as a PS3 exclusive for reaching 500k the fastest or something like that.

Now, if K2 didn't sell as much as your precious overhyped Gears and Halo thats something else. Its called marketing.

[Etseix]

please read this article,
this article is only poiting to u.
----------------------------- ----------------------------
another thing,
ALL THE WORLD IS NOT THE USA
please understand that.

[Bladestar]

Games + Low Sales = Financial flops.
Games + Low Sales = Not worth making by developers.
Games + Low Sales = Not popular.
Games + Low Sales = Gamers do not give a crap about the game even when a handful of so call gamers like it.

Games sales and the game go hand in hand... it's like a book that no one reads... or a candidate that no one votes for.. it's mmmm... irrelevant.

[Bladestar]

lol... sure.. success is also on the eyes of the beholder... I have a nephew that thinks Hulk and Ironman are great games... hell he thinks the those games are better than Metal Gear, Gears, Mass Effect and everything else...

what does that tell you ehh? lol!

[Bathyj]

Well Lego Indiana Jones and Kung Fu Panda are 10 and 11 on the all time 360 charts, beat every Xbox exclusive except Forza 2, Gears 1 and 2 and Halo 3, so what does that tell you?

Thats right, both those games are better than Fable 2, L4D, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Project Gotham, Dead Rising, Lost Planet......

[Shane Kim]

And don't forget that Pokemon, Nintendogs and Wii Fit are AAAAAAA games as well.

[Gun_Senshi]

Johnny Cullen is still an annoying prick.

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

if a product is great enough that the sales would relect the quality of that said product.

With as much boasting there is of games and what they can do...

You'd just imagine that gamers would reflect a games value, by justifying a purchase... right?

and Murkerr, why do you think PS3 is the only victim here? every system deals with this... relax!!!!

[Halo3 MLG Pro]

Another sony fanboy crying about the lack of ps3 gaming sales.

[Spike47]

play sales on n4g.com.

[Jdoki]

In the movie industry a flop is a film that doesn't make it's money back. No reason why we wouldn't apply the same logic to a video game.

Fanboys throw the word flop around because a particular game didn't perform to THEIR expectations, which has little to do with reality.

Not matching the hype is not the same thing as being a flop. If that were the case almost every game released this generation could be considered a flop!

[kesvalk]

this remembers me of mad world...

the game is enjoyable, got very good reviews, but it dind't sold 2 million on day 1 = flop...

as i aways say, fanboys are disgusting...

[XPC HARDonE]

the definition of flop is something or someone that is unsuccessful. The definition of success is an event that accomplishes its intended purpose.
So unless the makers of a game intended that their product sell poorly compared to other games, then in that situation the game would not be a flop. Can a great game sell poorly despite its quality, of course. I just hate it when people start making up their own definitions for words because they dont have a strong use of language and/or they are just trying to drive traffic to their mediocre site with some falmebait BS.

[Rhezin]

why don't you xbots go to the corner for timeout. See? over there its the one taped off for retards.