Power of Cell Processor 'Limitless,' says 'Lair' Dev

Is the PS3's Cell chip really that much more powerful than the 360? Factor 5 President Julian Eggebrecht believes so; it's just a matter of optimizing for the PS3, he says. And while he thinks the Cell is limitless, he had some interesting observations about the limits of Epic's Unreal Engine, which he compared to the engine they're using in Lair.

[BubblesDAVERAGE]

There is no doubt that the cell is a beast. The way of programing is just so out of the normal. I guess in time we will seee. As far as gaming just give it time ps3 is starting to get its shine. Just like 360 did around april then again in november.

[TheXgamerLive]

That avatar pic is an A plus:)

[sajj316]

Already had about 100+ posts arguing over this same subject matter.

[tehcellownu]

I think most xboxfanboys wont believe it because its hard to admit since they are support of the 360..why do you think their no other devlopers out there to debunked their statement..the cell is a monster once you learn how to use it..and they didnt even use the rsx yet..PS3 is a better hardware and much powerful system.This is only the begining what the cell can do. it will put almost all 360 games to shame..

[Wargasm]

I think most Ps3fanboys wont believe it because its hard to admit since they are support of the Ps3..why do you think their no other devlopers out there to debunked their statement..the Xenon is a monster once you learn how to use it..and they didnt even use the Xenos yet..Xbox360 is a better hardware and much powerful system.This is only the begining what the 360 can do. it will put almost all Ps3 games to shame...

see, I can make up stuff too.

Ill admit it, the cell will be better in the long run but... the RSX is NOT better than the Xenos. They have similar clock speeds and memory caches but the Xenos is much more efficient due to its UNIFIED SHADER ARCHITECTURE.

It probably will make very little difference in the end though

If you don't believe me... read up on it.

[techie]

lol. limitless aye? I think he means "limitless" in that they can't see the end...but it can't be literally limitless...that would be a marvel of technology.

[eques judicii]

that would be like perpetual motion

[Circa24]

See, it's the same way that "Stainless" steel is REALLY stainless. It just stains less.

So, the cell...uh...limits less....yeah

[TheXgamerLive]

This is kind of an unknown fact, so Shhhh, mums the word, ok?

[kewlkat007]

Computer chips are not limitless..Always will be out-doned, by the next- best thing. No thanks to that weak "bait" tehcellownu #3

[FordGTGuy]

ATI 80-core chip and the Quantum computer that nothing can beat at equations.

[Armyless]

The progressive and accelerated speed of Microprocessors due to the number of transistors doubling every 2 years, appears to be limitless. Moore's Law does not suggest a trend in the limitations of chips, on the contrary, it predicts exponential growth.

The Cell is not a linearly coded chipset. It is many things, including parallel or circular depending on the codeset. I think what he means by "limitless" (and I'm not apologizing for his exaggeration) is that it's limited only by the programmer's imagination and ability to optimize. Optimizing a brand new multichipset processor is going to take time and will yield very cool innovations, but it is not limitless.

[SupremeX]

This chip is a research test only and is not in production. Currently it has reached 1 Teraflop of processing power which is 73% of its theoretical power.

http://www.extremetech.com/...

[Anego Montoya FTMFW]

the cell is powerful.
but the ps4 will be better.

[D R Fz]

the ps4 might still have the same cell but just house a better graphics card and a bigger HDD.

[DJ]

The great thing about CPUs is that they're software-bound, while GPUs are hardware-bound. RSX has definite, set limits while Cell can be utilized in a myriad of ways. It's a good combination.

[PSN Starfleets]

At the end of the day, Gears still looks so much better and you'd all probably spend alot more time on that than Lair.
:)

[LSDARBY]

lol, how do you know you aint played it, tbh Lair looks like it will have more lasting appeal than Gears (excluding online).

[Uganda64]

Uhh...Lair looks better pal. Close up and obviously from far away. Check these .gifs out:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
Post #863 shows close up beauty.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
#834 shows AMAZING water effects and overall graphics.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
#773
Real time demonstration, jawdropping.

Then there's the cutscenes, and the developer interviews which show it off as well.

And Lair does that with unmatched technological prowess and 1024 square kilometre levels.

Come on! Admit it, you're impressed. For now, Lair is the bar for console graphics and tech.

[Boink]

we know your trying to hype up the machine you're designing exclusively for to hopefully increase your profits by increasing the ps3 install base.

give it up already...

[GaMr-]

I think they will give it up. When people stop trying to put down a machine they don't own or have any intention of buying. Just to make themselves feel better. Its a balance. Kinda like Good and Evil. Its not going away.

[BlazeXXL]

Increasing the installbase? Lol, if that's your arguement, then you might aswell just leave. Sure, Factor 5 works for Sony, but how come you all say they don't have any experience with 360? I mean, for all we know they've tried to work with the 360.

In the video clips you'll see Eggebrecht saying Lair can't work on any other console other than the PS3. And I do believe him, because it's their work that supports their arguement. Do you really believe the Xbox360 has the hardware good enough for those scales of maps and armies?

It's all about storage and processing power in Lair, and you really see this back in the game videos.

[Leathersoup]

So if the power of the cell is limitless why do the games not look better than real life? Sound like a load of crap to me.

[BlazeXXL]

Lol, ever heard of "getting used to a new system's hardware"? I mean comon, the PS3 has been out for what? 5 months? Just look at The Getaway, that's realtime rendering, and that level of graphics and physics can be achieved in the PS3's lifetime.

[OutLaw]

But I have to say that I give Blaze props for that original avatar he deserves another bubble for it. LOL

[tomfoolery]

What's up with your Mart obsession?
I mean,to take the time to create that picture"I Hate The Mart",
is kind of juvenile,don't you agree?
Even your lowest form of Sony troll has more integrity then that.

[tethered]

Haha! No we don't.

[BlazeXXL]

Why do you actually care? He's been creating this website into a goddamn warzone, so I have all the rights to be pissed off at him. And he saw this coming, that's what you get for posting idiotic fanboy posts eugh..

BTW: I am not a Sony troll, just to let you know.

[CrazzyMan]

Taken from beyond3d:

In [b]Lost Planet[/b], each character is 10-20K polys. A VS robot is 30-40K polys. A background is about 500K. With shadows and other hidden rendering cost, it's about [b]3 million[/b] polys per frame.

Different platforms require different care, would not be surprised if ppl working on 360 and suddenly dropping their datasets onto RSX would not observe good numbers (and viceversa)
Now..I can't see how RSX, if used in the right way, should be so limited at vertex processing: in HS we easily render 2-2.5 MTriangles per frame at 30 fps without being VS limited and without making any use of CELL to speed up vertex shading and I know for sure that being more clever we could even go faster..[b](just using the GPU)[/b]

The numbers quoted about HS are slighty wrong..cause a few days a go I realized there's a bug in the code that computes the triangle count: in some cases it's more close to [b]3M triangles[/b] per frame mark than 2M.

Regarding cpu, yes its totally different arguments. The 360's is a very standard setup, a bunch of cores that can all see main memory. The advantage to this is that lots of thread coded written over the years can be ported to it easily. For example, Valve (the Half Life guys) are writing an entirely threaded engine for the PC. When it's done, porting it to the 360 will be easy. How about porting it to the PS3? Nope, won't work, it's a totally different setup. The PS3's main core is basically the same, but its spu's can't see main memory. Each one has 256k that it can work with, so you need to rewrite your code to pack things into 256k chunks, feed it to the spu's to process it, then copy it all back to main memory. In other words, you've gotta rewrite your code.

Now before I get jumped on here let me briefly mention the downsides. The 360's cpu setup is painfully easy to code for. But, they really aren't all that fast. Worse yet, all three cores use the same memory controller so the three cores are not three times the power of the one core on the PS3 due to some overhead. The PS3's spu's on the other hand are monstrously fast. You need to setup your data correctly to work with them, but once thats done then yes, [b]the 360's cpu setup is crap compared to fully working spu's.[/b] I say fully working because most current games out there barely even touch on them, it will take time to re-write everything. I haven't done spu coding....yet. I will be though in 2007 which will be pretty cool.

[sevenout]

I love how this "programmer" goes on about how Valve, one of the best publishers in the game industry is so "behind the times," in regards to programming for SPUs, and the author goes on to say how great SPUs are, but then he adds at the end of the article, "I say fully working because most current games out there barely even touch on them, it will take time to re-write everything. I haven't done spu coding....yet. I will be though in 2007 which will be pretty cool."

The guy has never even programmed for Spu's, but he is saying that are better? I am getting sick and tired of this speculation behind the CELL processor. The "Oh, In a few years the CELL will be able to read your mind and program itself and find you a date," is getting pretty old. It's a processor, it's not the Messiah.

[techie]

Are you insane? He's quoting from a Ninja Theory dev at the begining and then Crazy Man is talking about his own feelings about the quotation...and that HE hasn't programmed on the SPU's. What a weird thing to say.

[Wargasm]

I keep looking at these forums to see if there is anyone who can put up an intelligent argument for the ps3... And you sir have done it... you have actually affected my opinion.

its hard believe statements that are opinionated and without anything to back it up.

Did i mention that the sky is purple? or that i am 9 ft tall?

swear to god i am.

[overrated]

If the DEV who is fuking making the game says that it can not be put onto the 360 that means it cannot be put onto the 360. Are you a DEV? are any of you 360 Artards devs? no your fuking not. So get the fuk out of the PS3 section because most of you dont even intend on buying a PS3 so why are you here? jealous? need to prove to yourself that the 360 was a warranted purchase? why are you here?

[BIadestarX]

This guy may be right about the game not being able to run on the 360.
But "If the DEV who is fuking making the game says " it's not enough reasons to believe everything the man says...
1) He is not an xbox 360 game developer.
2) Never work on an xbox 360 project.
3) Just finished making a PS3 game(exclusive) and need to sell his game.
4) Game Developers do not make hardware, so IBM would qualify more to give you a technical explanation of whether this is true. Most software/game developers just see how much developer don't need to know much of anything about the hardware since that's why the SDK and game engines exists. Trust me... he is not writing machine language. He is only reading the specs... Developers only see and need to know, how much resources they can use (Memory, CPU, etc).
5) And just in case, "Are you a DEV?" fk yeah... I am a software developer and I understand 100% the process of making a game.

[Armyless]

What kind of software do you develop? (Since you "understand 100% the process of making a game. ")

[BIadestarX]

Armyless, At this moment I am not a game developer if that's what you are trying to get to. Want to know why? Cause a game programmer gets pay only around $60K-70K a year while a senior web/sofware/database gets pay a lot more than that. with half the stress and the amount of work. Going from $120K/year -> $60K and work more is not my idea of a better job.
But I game programming is the reason why I became a programmer.
If you have any questions about any process in software or game programming (Game physics, Artificial intelligence, Graphics, Sound, Gameplay, Scripter, UI, Input, Network, DirectX, OpenGL, etc..)Just ask me. If I feel that you are worth of my time I would answer them (No stupid questions allowed). Yes, I have Game development experience. Not with any major game studio but I have.

[Armyless]

Arrogance is a character flaw.

[CaliGamer]

Bladestorm has been going around tooting his horn about how much he makes for a long time on this site. Seems to me if you have to constantly reinforce to people how verse you are at programing, there is a severe problem with your credibility.
I have read nothing from you that suggest you have any more knowledge than me about video games or programing, you come across as a fanboy just as any other person on this site. A programmer would strike me as someone who would A) rise above the rabble of PS3/360 speriority, and B) realize that each system is very capable in it's own way.
So as I have heard many others say on here before I have to call BS on Bladestorm's "expertise", a message board is no place to try to prove your knowledge through words, because there is no way to prove what you say is true.
On topic, I am sure that the cell will prove more than powerful enough this generation. As I have stated before, Sony has not failed to deliver yet so I have no reason to doubt them, MS on the other hand.... enough said.

Edit:
It's funny how people get all up in arms over everything, this developer is A)giving his opinion of the Cell and B) speaking in terms of his experience thus far, I am sure he is not saying that the Cell is the end all be all. To get a true impression of whether he feels like the Cell is the best now and forever, there will have to be an interview where he can clarify. Just take what is said with a grain of salt and keep moving.
I think that he IS putting his money where his mouth is when I look at the footage from Lair, it seems like they are doing a lot of next level things with this game. I own a PS3 and visit this site off and on, its funny to see how there is always a negative spin to put on anything positive about the PS3.
I personally am confident that the PS3 will deliver, and I am a patient adult who knows that R&D takes time. I guess some of the 360 fans are a bit uneasy, I never comment on any 360 news good or bad because I could care less about MS and their console. What the 360 fans should really get up in arms about is the fact that MS has been covering up their faulty DVD drives and god knows what else. But that is MHO so I guess you don't have to agree.

[BIadestarX]

CaliGamer, test me. ask me anything about programming? This is not a software development site, so why should be talking about programming? I only mentioned about what I do when one of you morrons want to suggest that unless you are a developer you can't have an opinion... what about when you are a developer (like me) do I have an opinion?
Call it BS. or wherever you want... simply because you can't prove that I am not which I would have to call BS at your calling BS so I can call it BS.... get the point? Also, they released an article proving that game developers are the lowest paid in the industry... forget how much I make... that's the point I was trying to make.
Tip, stick to the point.. I know I am special.. but you dont have to make it personal and targetted to me. Just prove that what I am saying is wrong. and make your argument. I don't pay your bills so it does not matter what I make... only the point I am trying to make.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

yet another article to spur a flame war. tired...boring...just give me good games on either console.

[power of Green]

He wants to make love to the PS3.

[BIadestarX]

I am not trying to insult anyone or start a flame war.. just looking for a logical answer.

If the cell power is "Limitless" which means... uhhh... it has no limit and its power can be reached... you know more like Pi=3.14..... and the universe... (yeah few time the word Limitless is use when it comes to electronics) does this mean that CPUs can't get any faster or perform any better?

Also can someone explain to me why IBM had to use 8 PS3(if I am not mistaken) to demo Ray-Tracing. Also why IBM selling CELL blade (cell base computers) with multiple cell CPU sometimes even 7 Cells.
If 1 is limitless why would you need 7 limitless?

Also, does this mean they don't have to worry about optimization since the CPU has no limit, so poor code will simply be process faster? Then how come some PS3 games have framerate issues?

[CAPS LOCK]

they used 3 ps3s and thats still remarkable, but i do get your point, its probably because of the ram restrictions and the rsx. but he is pointing out the CELL. so if the 360 had the cell and he still said that then it would be different.

[power of Green]

Nonesense!, man i feel sorry for this guy Sonys making him do all the sh*t talking for them in a last desprate attempt to hype up PS3 fictional abilities.

[mattkelly1991]

Research suggests that the Ps3 has amazing processing potential. Look at this. 60,000 Ps3's are decoding Gene Foldings at 2 times faster rates then 300,000 Microsoft Computers. thats 10x faster(5x * 2x). The Man isn't saying that it has limitless power. I know what your thinking... "But he said Limitless!"... Alright look. He is just saying that he cannot imagine all the possiblitlies with the ***PROCESSOR***. He is not saying anything about the RSX or about the 512 MB of Ram(256MB + 256MB). All he is saying is that if programmers would take the time, and learn how to program for it, it could do some amazing things. That is all... Yes, this man is making a PS3 exclusive, and yes he probbly wants Lair to get bought. No idea why he would want that, thats stupid. But, I think that all he is saying is, this game is setting the path for future PS3 games. Hes using the cell, and he is trying to amaze.

[TylerDurden]

But I am pretty sure I could tax the cell by just a couple of lines of code:
int i = 1;
while(i > 0)
{
i++;
}

I love how people say that they only used 20% of the cell or 30% of the xbox. Seriously most optimization is done by using less cpu cycles to achieve the same task, which in turn frees up cpu cycles to perform other tasks. Turning linear or quadratic algorithms into logarithmic or constant algorithms. This is how you achieve optimizations. Any rookie programmer can write poorly performing algorithms or infinite loops.

[Xi]

int x=1;
if(x!=0)
{
println("x is:" + x);
x++
}

[Xi]

PS3 developer saying the ps3 is limitless, HMMMMMMMM. Factor 5 is crawling over sony this gen, it's no surprise.

[tk]

But limitless? Come on. It is a great processor, but limitless is a bit of a stretch too far.

[VirtualGamer]

It must be tough being a developer. You give a interview and people all over the world who have never done programing will comment and tell you what you said was wrong. Some will have done some programming but not for the PS3 yet they feel they are able to comment on developing for the PS3, but how can this guy say its not possible on the 360 when he has never made a game for the 360? See the irony there?

I am not a programmer. When people start talking tech stuff at the level the 360 or the PS3 works I certainly can't argue it or debate it because I truly don't fully understand and I work in IT. What I do know is what I can see. When I look at Lair in those developer walk thru videos that have come out over the last few days and read what they are doing it is truly impressive.

I remember watching the Sony announcement at E3 2005. I had goosebumps from watching the feed. Of course since then we have learned that what they had said was overstated. Motorstorm has come out and while it does not match the CGI graphics it still a remarkable game, certianly something we would not have seen on last gen hardware. Now I see this on Lair, with a world that is 32km X32km, 20,000ft ceiling, 1000's of troops fighting on the ground. Water that is amazing, boats that react to the waves and when they blow up ripple the water. Detail is the same at 1m or 20,000ft. Really there is so much going on its truly mind blowing to me that this is even possible. Add that its going to be running at 1080p while doing all this and for me, the PS3 is a beast.

If this kind of game is capable of being made this early in the development cycle and you look how far God of War 2 is pushing the PS2 7 years later is it any wonder a developer would say, "But Cell is pretty limitless at this point." I certainly don't think so. I can only imagine the games to come as developers get more and more of a handle on developing and optimizing games for the PS3.

I know some will call me a fanboy for saying what I just did. Sure I am pumped on what I am seeing here but I hope we will see similar things on the 360. We should all want to hear developers say we have just scratched the surface of what is possible on these next gen systems.

One last thing. I remember when guys like TheMart use to blast the PS3 because the only games it could do in 1080p was Virtual Tennis. The logic was well sure it can cause not much is going on. Games that have alot of action and things will never see this and yet impressively we are and the response? Nothing special, looks boring. <boggle>

[JCDenton]

You guys are all missing one important thing about todays gaming consoles - it's not about hardware, it's about SOFTWARE. If you don't have the software, the hardware will fail.

Games - it's NOT about graphics and special FX, it's about gameplay and atmosphere.

Can anyone here tell me what is the REAL difference between, for example, Tekken 3 and Tekken 6, besides graphics and sound fx? NOTHING! It's still a fighting game. Same goes for HALO series on the XBOX 360 - more of the same. Same sh*t, different packaging.

And look at the games - violence only: "God of WAR", "Gears of WAR", "KILLZONE", etc.

What's the big difference between Resistance, FarCry, Doom3, Quake4, Call of duty... I'm really sick of seeing the same sight every time - the same hand holding a gun, a bomb, a sword... That hasn't changed since the original Doom (1993.). They just pump up resolution and graphics in general, add more blood and gore...Tadaaaaah - we have a "new", "mind-blowing", "fantastic" and "original" FPS.

And what the hell is with you people arguing about PS3 and XBOX 360 capabilities ?!!? Who gives a sh*t which one has better graphics and more powerfull CPU, GPU, larger memory, more efficiant architecture (except for developers)? Fact is that PS3 will NEVER have graphics THAT BETTER to put XBOX 360's graphics to shame (like, do you really care is you game is running at 90fps or 60fps - it doesn't matter, it's still running smooth). Maybe it will have higher polygon count, more shader effects or whatever, but most of the people won't see any difference, unless they really want to see. This is one of the main reasons why WII is selling so good - a low-priced console for everyone, with revolutionary controller, with simplistic, non-violent, games.

(sorry for possible bad-English)...

[mattkelly1991]

In January 2007 a group of programmers ran tests on the Nintendo Wii. Later that month after many days the programmers weren't heard from and people started to get suspicious.

The families of the programmers were starting to get worried so they reported there story to the police. On January 27th the bodies of 6 people were found with there head slightly burnt and there arms severed.

The police retrieved the bodies, and did a autopsy on the bodies. The police at first were baffled by this, what could it have been? The police were determined to find out. Later invesigation of the warehouse were the programmers were testing showed barely any evidence.

All the police found was the nintendo Wii cut in half and a bloody sixaxis Ps3 controller. The police were wondering why was there a sixaxis Playstation3 controller next to a Nintedo Wii? The police heard a noise. They turned around and saw nothing. They turned back around and saw a Playstation 3 standing there. Its good graphics, high-end gameplay was to much for the police. They all died that day, the mystery of the programmers and the Wii had been solved at the cost of the lives of those brave police.

The morale of this story is. Wii sucks ass, dont get it. Youll end up dead.

[marison]

Quote:
"But I am pretty sure I could tax the cell by just a couple of lines of code:
int i = 1;
while(i > 0)
{
i++;
}
"

1- If i is a 128b variable, it could use only one register.
2- The i plus 1 (i++) could be a inc (increment) instruction.
3- 319014718988380000000000000000 0(2^128 / Cell clock * 3 instruction) seconds after program start will occur a overflow exception.

Thoughts about 3:
- No memory access needed (only for code load);
- No cache needed;
- Dependent code: The narrow 2 issue in order PPE could not be used totally.

[TylerDurden]

And when I catch it just start counting again from 1. If I wanted to really tax the system I could spawn new threads and just repeat the same lines of code on each of the processors. Regardless of how fast the cell can count, the loop is tight and infinite and will bog down the processor.

Contrived? Definitely, but I have often seen code that given the wrong circumstances will perform an infinite loop.

The point I was trying to make was no matter how "limitless" something is, poorly written software will tax a system. Most of the time when devs talk about optimization they mean better algorithms not utilizing more hardware.

[marison]

Quote:
"The point I was trying to make was no matter how "limitless" something is, poorly written software will tax a system. Most of the time when devs talk about optimization they mean better algorithms not utilizing more hardware."

I know, I know...

I have an outdated experience with code optimization. Assembly Z80. With the same hardware you could see too much improvement. And sometimes, not only on the code. You have to rethink your storage of data too. Very funny indeed.

[TheXgamerLive]

This isn't even close to being true but believe what you will sony fans, that's what there counting on.

On a further note, think for a minute people. The ps3 has 256k graphics card plus some small amout of the other memory and I do mean small, spread this over the supposed 7 cores, does that sound like limitless power to you? LOL!!! No way. It's if anything strained to it's core, no pun intended.

[DJ]

'amazing' the Xenon CPU is (already surpassed in power by quad-core CPUs). Cell really is that damn good. You can deny it all you want, but the games are proving that Sony and it's 1st/3rd party developers know what they're talking about.

[TylerDurden]

People are comfortable with it since it is a more traditional CPU. You don't hear people arguing over what it can and can't do.

The Cell has a lot of hype around it, which some people appear to be attacking it, so naturally others will defend it. If Sony is right, and in a year or two it is proven that the Cell is more powerful than I give them kudos for taking such a risk.

Either way the games that are out now for both systems look great. At the worst the Cell is equal to the Xenon in terms of power.

[TheXgamerLive]

The Xbox 360 developers are letting the games do the talking, and so far they have done it in boat loads.

Ya see, nothings limitless, nothing, so right there the BS is showing. It's again, diarhea of the mouth. The more they talk the more sh*t comes out their mouths.

When the ps3 dev.s like read in this post, stop using facts and just start saying crap like that, well that's when you know it's all over for them.
Again, Lair will be a very good game, but will it be the game that sony says the ps3 is capable of, being 27x more powerful than the ps2 and all, will it? No! Is it that much more powerful? No! it's internally flawed with the small GPU's available memory. So much of the other avail. is being utilized for so many other functions that it's not that powerful. We're seeing it every time a new game is being preview'd.

Sony shouldn't make you thing that the cell is the end all to be all CPU. It's not. It's an incredible design if it were a PC only CPU, but as for gaming, well we see it's not. It's not bad either, it's just not that great to be advertising it as such. The proof will be in it's games. I say lets wait until this coming Xmas and see what's shaped up for both power houses.

Then we'll stop reading all the Diarhea of the mouth postings and see the real truth, no excuses.

[One]

dont you think if hes going far enough to
say the cell is limitless who knows
what else hes "strechting" the truth about

[VirtualGamer]

As I stated in a early post I am not going to argue specs. You seem to keep harping on them so much but have you worked with the PS3? No, so what you have to say about what it can or can't do and its limitations are pure speculation on your part. I am personally getting tired of people who have not worked with the PS3 tell me and other PS3 owners what the system is capable of and also go on to discredit anything anyone who has worked with it as being wrong and talking crap.

Example - Scott Henson, Director of the Microsoft Game Technology Group

"I think 1080p, just to address that directly, will be basically impossible. I think if you talk to any developer they will tell you that they will not have a performing game at 1080p."

http://games.kikizo.com/new...

Yet here we have a game that's got more stuff going on then I have seen in any game yet with amazing physics, lighting, weather, in a huge 32km X 32km world, etc all at 1080p and yet I have to still put up with people like you who tell me what I am seeing is not real and the developer is full of sh!t. So forgive me that I grow tired off people telling me what the PS3 can't do when I can see for myself what it can and it amazes me and many others. Even Kotaku eyes have been open.

New Lair Footage... Holy Crap!

Factor 5 and Sony had a Lair event a couple weeks ago, showing off the latest build of their PLAYSTATION 3 exclusive. I may have done my share of poo-pooing of the flying dragon game in the past, but it really does look like it's coming together.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps...

So you can keep on going on about 256mb of ram for the GPU just don't cut it, very much like MS saying the PS3 would have no 1080p games but the games will prove you both wrong and to think this is just the begining for the PS3.

[CaliGamer]

But I fear you are talking to what amounts a a brick wall when you refer to those people.
If you are talking specs, you should indeed be a developer in some capacity, and on a site such as this (see my previous comment 13.5), there is no reason to try to get technical to seem smart. I would say half of the comments I see on here are just repeating information that someone else has submitted to make the PS3 look bad. Lair, if anything will end up being a showcase of things to come for the PS3, but you will never get rid of the detractors because that is what they do. I even heard someone saying that the video they had where they would stop the game play and move around the environments was all CG, it just doesn't cease. People are naturally jealous bro, and we live in a society where on one is happy with what they have, they have to attack someone else to reassure themselves that they made the right decision. Its a very sad situation.

[TheXgamerLive]

it's about what can be done with them, so don't announce "LAIR: as the king of all games yet, wait until it's out and played and then you'll see what i'm saying and the video diary's aren't showing anything that impressive. The flames(weak) the on ground fighting (weak) This in air jumping on the others back w/o effort, too pre concieved, to fake. IMO of course.
To be honest, I can't wait to see the final outcome myself. I had high hopes for this game last year, but then again, sony and F5 show CGI and this game isn't coming along that well. Disapointment.

Short game "x" no multiplayer/online "x" quick boredom = not the king of games done on the king of consoles. You'll see. A game that's worth a rental, not a must buy.

The cell cores are to small to handle vast amounts of code for the glorious graphics that your expecting. Jaggies will prevail as well as freezeing up. Cell and RSX combo, not enough available memory to do the needed functions smoothly. This is being seen on many games. You should already know to not believe sony's hype and wait until the finished product comes out.

Why do you think that sony so rarely has a demo available to let ps3 users play before the release or after for that matter or even a video of an ingame demo played by a dev? Do you know why that is? Think about it.
Is there a Killzone 2 or MGS4 recent anything floating around? No. Why is that? Because it's looking/playing bad and needs much work.the cell again for PC computations, great, video gaming not so great. it's causing problems.

Will there be a cell in the ps4, if there is a ps4 that is? yes, I think so, but a much different cell and certainley not an RSX clone. To make the cell gaming friendly will take some changes, some re thinking of it's design as a gaming chip. Again, that's just my humble opinion.

And as I stated earlier in a different thread, we don't know anything that's going to help a dev., we all have our opinions but that's only an opinion, nothing we say is factual to a dev.s actual working knowledge so what will or wont happen is up to them, up to future results and "some" opinion of the people.
all in all I'm very happy when anything is produced by a dev. that seems to raise faith in the industry. I don't want to see gaming going back to the PC's as some states, I want consoles to florish now and in the future.

Can you imagine what the next Xbox 720 or ps4 or whatever there called will be doing to our psychy?

[PS360PCROCKS]

Well I can surely say it's a beast but nothing is "limitless" if it was we wouldn't keep upgrading computers and consoles. Dumb ass comment

[Bathyj]

Nothing is limitless, not even the fuel burning in the sun. I think the point he's trying to make is the cell is heaps powerful for this gen and if we are limited it will be by our own expertise or imagination.

Get over it now. Take a comment with a grain of salt.

And for all of you'se saying he likes Sony cos he works for them, you have everything arsebackwards as usual. He works for them cos he likes Sony/PS3 not the other way round. And why would he have to kiss arse just cos he works with them. Aren't you the same clown who were rejoicing when you thought Dave Jaffe was dissing BR? But that what you do isn't it. Take one little comment or remark and debate it all day as if you were actually accomplishing something or maybe pursuading a PS3 owner/wannabe owner into turning to the green side. Some of you kids are too much. I would have thought you'd have to many games to play, and not so much time on your hands, but I guess not.

PS. Bladestar, when are you going to get a PS3? I mean, whats stopping you? and dont say no games because there are already good games on it and more coming as you well know. If I had your sort of Money I'd buy 2 just to have one in the living room and one in my bedroom. I cant believe anyone on your income wouldn't get one cos of price.

[Armyless]

...and keep 2 running Folding@home on a raised floor, air-conditioned closet... (sort of sitting there in the middle of the floor like the b3yond ads)

[BitbyDeath]

It clearly states that by when he says limitless is that at this point it seems that he can keep on optimizing forever.

And who's the genius that brought GeOW up. PS3 has only been out for 6 months and GeOW did come out a few months after that point. Also the graphics of GeOW are only that high because the game took cuts elsewhere so give it up, there are much better games coming out gameplay and graphics wise

[vidoardes]

Its a sad fact, but 99% of the comments made on this site are made after reading the story title, and mayby a bit of the blurb. And those are nearly all written in a style to provoke flaming. To be honest, I think it would be better if it just linked straight to the site where the story is, as opposed to giving people to oppertunity to create a 'flame-provoking' title.

[marcellizot]

It amazes me the quantity of people that come onto this site to regurgitate technical specifications they have read but have zero understanding of.

I honestly think that unless you are either
a) a games designer
b)a console hardware engineer or
c) an extremely gifted tech guru (like Ben Heck) then your comments about Cell, Xenos, teraflops and all other such jargon mean precicely squat.

Both systems are very evenly matched, ask developers working on both systems or doing ports and they will tell you this. Sure each console has its respective strengths but neither machine really outclasses the other.

At the end of the day, why do you care about all of this techie mumbo jumbo unless you are actually in the business of making games. Does someone out there actually play through Gears and then say afterwards, "yeah it was good but it doesn't have as many polygons as Lair"

Nonsense!

I think that the F.E.A.R. comparison doing the rounds today crystalises the debate; if differences in visual fidelity are going to be that imperceptable then both sides of the idiotic fanboy debate will win. The trouble is neither side will notice because they will be too busy slinging peurile insults at each other on comments sections like this one.

[JCDenton]

I agree with everything! +

I really don't see the point of all those fanboy argument. Just play the system you prefer and shut up. Don't bash other systems (Wii, PS3 or XBOX 360)! If you don't like it, than say "I don't like it!", don't say "It sux!", or better yet, don't say anything if you're not asked for an opinion. I still play my Dreamcast (from time to time), but you won't see me going to PS2 or XBOX, or GAMECUBE forums saying "PS2 is crap" or any other system.

And that F.E.A.R. comparison video was the stupidest thing ever. Is it possible that anyone here actully believes that XBOX 360 or PS3 can't handle game from 2005. with the highest graphical detail that F.E.A.R.'s 3D engine can possibly provide??!