Tokipost.com - The Solution to the PS3 Install

The PS3 has mandatory game installs. No surprises there right? Since the beginning of the console gamers have complained that the PS3 has forced them to abandon the former gamer ritual and buy, unpack and play, adding the additional and sometimes painful step of WAIT between savage unpack (ripping off shrinkwrap is always fun) and the satisfying play. Some installs have hardly taken any time, while others (Devil May Cry 4) feel like an eternity of wait time which creates the sensation of smelling a fresh baked batch of cookie chip cookies (or insert your favorite kind of cookie) that still has time left in the oven.

The install can be fixed redeemed however. The beauty of it is that the solution has been staring us gamers in the face since day 1 as well. The solution? PSN. I know, I know, you're wondering how that makes any sense, so without further adieu, here it is.

[Peter Griffin]

But this is a STEP in the right direction

[Mr_Bun]

Yeah, I thought they were going in a totally different direction with that heading

[Peter Griffin]

my argument here is clearly the time problem....as i clearly stated

i didnt get into the space thing as i also have qualms wit it.

EDIT: Meant to reply to 2.2

[TheTimeDoctor]

i love installs. it improves the games performance and i get to smoke a couple of bowls.

[C_SoL]

That's actually a really great idea, but there's one problem; not everybody in the whole world has a internet connection.

So if I were to buy the game without having a internet connection. How would I play?? I need to install the damn game before I play it.

So it's really better to have the mandatory install data on the disc..

BTW:I didn't even read the article. I read bits and pieces....

@Below:Only 22% of the world population uses the internet..
That's not everybody.....

[FURY__UNLEASHED]

@ C_Sol

They would still have the install on the disc but if you had internet(which almost everyone has) you could do what the article says! If you don't have internet then you can do it off the disk like it is right now.

[sonarus]

I don't understand how this would work to be honest. Its like how you have to download then install. I can see install data being downloaded but that could lead to issues.

Plus game discs are made in batches supposing new batch has something that isn't covered in old batch so do they make install data for multiple batches on psn???

There is a proper solution for PS3 installs but this isn't a SOLUTION...its simply a work around. What sony needs to do is get ALL developers on board with the tech being used in titles like uncharted which have awesome load times but 0 install. Blu ray can hold 50GB of data they need to do data duplication to eliminate the need for install and shorten load times.

Data duplication is the solution to installs but quite frankly installs don't bother me that much

[gaffyh]

wtf are "cookie chip cookies"?

lol

[Sevir04]

it adds more time to the "WAIT" Game that fanbois look to use because we have to download and then install. and then there is STILL the Space Issue, while we can always say yeah just upgrade the HDD, people would rather not do that even though it might be beneficial in the long run. This article while it sounds like a good idea, 20 minute mandatory installs which a 4-5 gigs worth wont be fun downloading no matter what the connection speed, maybe that would be sound if we had inernet speeds like our Korean pals but thats not the case of here in the states, in Europe, Japan and many parts of the world. for me It takes about 1 hour to download a 2 gig file from PSN with High traffic, thats 4 hours of a 4.8 gig download data i dont want to go through and then half to wait 5-20 minutes to more after downloading... Thats BS, while i have the space and i dont mind the mandatory installs much, i would rather not be forced.

Games like Haze, Ratchet and Clank future, burnout and Uncharted are the solution to this aweful problem... developers need to spend time making your Game do Background loading, or develop and engine that streams by having a major 3 minute loading process from the initial start up of the game and then zero load times when the game actually gets under way like Uncharted and Haze. or the other solution is to duplicate system data on that Oh sop useful BLuray disk which bethesda showed is another viable option for making the game run smooth yea it might be padding but it's still a valuable technique that with a little refining will stop this epedemic from spreading through out the PS3's life cycle... Dont force me to Buy a HDD because i'm running out of space or force me to wait because i'm intalling and uppacking my data...

That right there is the solution, Get better coding and make a better engine that supports background loading or stream... get with it. and deal with the slow disk read issue of the PS3's Blu ray.

[barom]

First off why do you have to have one or the other. Why not have both? The OPTION to download from PSN and the ability to install from disc. There's actually nothing bad about that at all.

Oh and btw, 78% of the whole world population might not have internet. But I bet a good 80-90% (maybe even closer to 95%) of the PS3 population has. Think about it, who buys a 399$ console and not have the money to get internet.

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

If you mind the installs, I have the solution:

Get a job. You have too much time in your hands.

@baron

Many people with PS3s are out of Sony's radar. I know I am (in Brazil, they shall not come with PS3 here any soon). I do have an American adress, so no problem for me, and who hasn't can just fake an adress.

But I know many that have fear of doing it and get banned like in the 360 (many people know 360 bans here, but few understand that this was only for pirates so the fear of being watch while playing has raised, specially in a place where 95% of the market is illegal in a way or another).

[B-Rein]

i think xbox 360 shud have installs cus of the damn noise and some times the loads go a bit dodgy especially in the rpg games where the music doesnt switch at the right time

[SL1M DADDY]

Not everybody that buys a game for their PS3 has the Internet or is even hooked up to the net. So I take it this is a solution that will include both the data on the disc for install and the data through the PSN? If that is the case then it sounds good to me but to be honest, the installs never really bothered me.

[Elimin8]

I said that a month ago.... http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...

[Mr_Bun]

Still, I think this could be a viable option.

[Peter Griffin]

No, its not a problem to me either. I can understand why ppl may be annoyned but its really not as serious as ppl and sites make it out to be. Is ur life really that unproductive that a 5-30 min install drive u to insanity? u really cant find nothin to do for the time being?

[mboojigga]

This issue is not about the time it takes to do the install. It is more about the space taken up for the installs. If the PS3 is your only console and you have 5 games with 5 gig installs then you have no space eventually for everything you really meant to do with the hardrive that you didn't even need to upgrade although the option has always been there. People want to upgrade the hardrive for other reasons and mandatory installs are not one of them. More money out of your pocket for a reason you were not needing to upgrade for in the first place. Then everyone saids delete it out and install it when you want to play it again. I want to play a game for 10 minutes which is what I and I know some people like to do for example a race. Instead of my 10-20 minutes I wanted to spend playing that game I am spending 15 minutes alone just reinstalling the game. So now my 10-20 minutes I wanted to set aside to just simply played will now either turn into 5 minutes or 40 minutes I didn't want to spend time doing as I planned my time out.

You say someone can't find anything to do in that time. Well yes, I chose to play a game in that time duh. But I buy my mulitiplatform games for the 360 and only exclusives for the PS3. That solves those games

[hay]

No problems here either.

[Pennywise]

I dont mind them at all. If it will make for less pop ups, fast loads and less optical lens use... im all for it.

[TheTimeDoctor]

if space is a problem buy a bigger hard drive; if time is the problem you are a retard.

[season007]

"ripping off shrinkwrap is always fun"

Then why don't games come without wrap so it saves you another 5seconds?

You can always complain anything that delay your first trial of the game you like...but, seriously, if ripping off shrinkwrap is an exciting waiting moment, same for the install time..

btw, the above comments doesn't mean i like freaking long 30minutes install time, just that if it is needed, try make it short and i wouldn't mind it much..

[CrippleH]

Solution Do Hard Drive caching and streaming like Uncharted.

[JBaby343]

I was thinking the same thing when I read this.

[Sarick]

My solution is simple.

Allow the user to create a user specified unified cache partition. In that partition games can get installed as the game loads up. As new games get installed that data is replaced.

This might not seem like a super idea at first but bare with me a few more steps and listen to the genius behind this. First off the space never exceeds user specified amounts. Secondly it doesn't require an install. Lastly, the game that's running takes a portion of this space for itself and streams the data until the desired files are fully installed.

Now here is the key to this setup. If a player decides to put another game in that needs install or cache space it will overwrite some or all of the file the same way the previous title did. Of course if the player puts in the first game and the cache is full it'll overwrite the other game hopefully keeping some of the other games files on the drive.

What this basically does is create a soft install that doesn't retain the all the install data. If another game wants to use the HDD for data it overwrites some of the space. It allows the best of both worlds without locking an install on the drive. It's like the windows cache system. In windows all the excess ram is for cache until programs require it. If new programs are loaded that need ram it releases the amount needed. It also slowly builds the cache unless your on vista and running superfetch.

For instance in today's games they have their own install data. This data is wasting space if your not playing the game anymore. Sure you can uninstall the game, but why should the players need to manually install and uninstall. The installs should be seamless and use unified swappable space that is overwritten if another game requires it.

When you pop in a game it should use system reserved space for optimized data transfers and be overwritten out if a player puts in a new game that needs hdd space. Most players put in a game play it for a few days then at a time. Not sample them, like the old NES days. This allows the cache to populate.

Aside from updates, new maps and patches I don't believe full game installs are necessary, especially if they can automatically install and uninstall data as needed using a cache partition. At least with this setup normal players that don't swap out games regularly (2-4 games a day) will get the benefits of NO initial full installs, faster access over time and let the blu-ray drive have less ware.

Edited FIXED spelling and terms.

[Blademask]

How do we get devs to bother streaming on ps3? Thats the question.

Its not a question of technical ability.

[Lmann]

totally true. The bottom line is that it's easier for the developers to put it on the hard drive. Most people do not realize the extra development time it takes to get a game to run smoothly from disc based storage. Less development time, less cost for the developer. In the case of the 360 the developers have to put in that extra time because not all 360's have hard drives. But, in my mind they have got a little lazy with the PS3 because they know the hard drive will be there.

[pricklypete]

Just Play your Wiis.

[Barreldragon00]

You know i do. Hey... *high five*

Oh wait do you mean the console?

[Vip3r]

Can't they just position the data on the disk in a certain way to help with the speed?

[ZombieNinjaPanda]

So thats how you spell adieu.

Anyway, disagree with this idea.

I myself am on my computer a lot, so I only connect my ps3 online when I have time.(you guys know, essays, tests, the works) Anyway, if the install data was just limited to being downloaded, what about the people who didn't have online?

Yep, major flaw.

[Tyetan]

I don't see the problem with the install times. None of them are that bad, we should be happy that we don't have to install from 6 dvds.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Exactly! Most installs are only a few minutes..by the time i read the back of the game case and a few pages from the game's instruction booklet its all done.I have no complaints!

And its not like EVERY game has installs anyways..

[JBaby343]

I own 12 PS3 games and all my installs have been no more than 5 minutes.

[Pika-pie]

What a daft idea. I mean who is gonna want to download a 5gig install to their HD which would take hours and hours when you could just wait 5 mins when the game arrives..

I have a solution to the problem... Develop a shred of patience

[sak500]

Next gen huh? Sony should put warning stickers on 40/60gb version stating "Hard drive upgrade required after buying more than 10 games" Upgrade drive not included...

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Really? thats weird.I have atleast 25-30 games with a 40GB PS3.And i still have space left.

Maybe..just..MAYBE..you don't know what your talking about? :O

[juuken]

...I do recall swapping disks being last-gen?

Unless your connection is as slow as a freakin' turtle, then installs are not a big deal. I would rather do that than to get up, change a disk just to play the rest of my game.

[PopEmUp]

is thinking about riping blue ray to the hdd itself, in that case not even 500gb will last very long

[B-Rein]

people make up sh!t when they dont own the console

[nonAsianDroid]

juuken is too fat to swap a disk and wait 20 mins on installing

[juuken]

nonAsianDroid is such a f*cking idiot that he has to insult the PS3 just to make himself feel better at night.

[nonAsianDroid]

juuken or jewken don't call yourself a idiot...DROID

just calm yourself down and just relax and watch some anime

[juuken]

And you can go and shove your 360 through a woodchipper. :]
Ah, had to use your multiple accounts to smack disagree buttons. What, am I supposed to afraid of you or something?

OH BLOODY NOES! DISAGREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEZ!

Adios lemming. I have games on my PS3 to play. ^__^

[nonAsianDroid]

what the ones you are playing now??? u mean watching blu-ray while on n4g eating pizza

your the one with multiple acounts that's how you go from 4 bubbles to 7 every week.

[SONYSLAVE]

HEY nonasian leave him alone!! PS3 rocks and you can't deal with it

[Pain]

Simple; Dont make with Old gen XBOX 2 in mind.

& Confirmed as fact.

"1.5 - Non Asian Droid
juuken is too fat to swap a disk and wait 20 mins on installing"

with that u just proved your a 13 year old twit.

wow good one... did u burn out that last brain cell thinking that up?

[B-Rein]

well pain i think nonasian doesnt understand what Relax and play games is after a full days workout, I bet his a fat bast**d hu never leaves the seat in front of his pc with is 360 right next to it getting the only exercise to switch disc on the 360 right in front of him.... not very health for a 13 year old... teenagers need to work out a bit to grow learn something from this Boy!!!

[Close_Second]

I would love to know who all the PS3 owners are who moan about them.

[JBaby343]

Oddly enough, it's actually only the 360 fanboys that complain about installs.

[rockleex]

and I complain about them, because games like Uncharted don't even require an installation.

Seriously, installs for the PS3 is the result of producers not wanting to optimize their process of loading information from the BluRay disc.

I can bet Killzone 2 won't require an installation... except maybe for the splitscreen aspect if it has splitscreen. COD4 didn't require an installation either.

Most of the installs are from Japanese developers. One reason might be that they haven't learned how to properly stream data off the disc yet.

If a game with massive data like Uncharted can do everything without installation, why does a game with mediocre graphics/textures/etc like DMC4 need installation?

[darthv72]

Hear me out. If there is a game to which I do not own (yet) but there is content available for it, I download it to my 360. I had several track packs for GH3 before i even had the game. Some were free (that are no longer free) and I have done the same for Forza and a few others as well.

Sure it isnt really the same but when I do get the game I will have already gotten the DLC for it and will be ready to play. I am sure the same idea can be applied to PS3 games with DLC. You "preload" the content and when you get the game (after the install, if there is one) you are ready to go.

[NeonSkull]

I think this is a really good idea. but will probly never happen.

[divideby0]

whinning about game installs is about as lame as you can get...PC has done it forever, now 360 is supposed to do it...
so another thing to dine on crow about for those who whinned about it...pretty much for an obvious reason

[BlackRaven85]

Still optional

[marshman]

Not a big deal i have a life and can find something to do for 5 to 30 min

[Mike134nl]

Is it just me or is this the most ridicilious solution I have read in a while. using psn for a install, which would have been faster with the disk, just is stapid,whole bunch of other problems the solution will bring to bare. They might as well put a new bluy ray player with a higher reading speed.

Only solution to eliminate instals would be selling ps3 games on other faster loading media like sd cards or usb keys.

[JohnnyMann420]

His idea was to DL it a few days before the game was in stores... so when you finally buy the game it was already on your HD.

It is actually a good idea.

[JohnnyMann420]

Thats it... I like it....good idea.

[bunbun777]

I love you guys and read all your replies but didnt read the article...

Wasnt there something with Spore for those that do use their internet connection (in that case all spore players i would assume)so that you could download 99% of the game ahead of time so that it would be ready to go once you bought (or not) the legal 1%?

I am fine with installs, but I'm even more fine with having the option 3 days out to get everything on my hard drive sooner through a download (while you are sleeping for anyone with slow connections) then when you bring the game home, viola- it already was installed on your HDD.

If this was in the article then cool. and sorry, lol.

-johnnyman420 thank you --you posted as i was writing-

[PeterGriffinSays]

PS3 owners shouldn't mind installs, because "every" PS3 has at least 20 GB of space, unlike...well, I'll be nice and end it here.

[Karum]

You know I really don't mind the install times. How many of us console owners play or have played games on our PC's? Nobody bats an eyelid about installing PC games so it really shouldn't matter for consoles.

Anyway, this idea is a decent alternative but it really is unnecessary. The real fix for "mandatory" (I use that word loosely as installs are not mandatory for PS3 games) installs is to round up all the dev teams of the world and have Naughty Dog teach em how it's done.

[bruiser81]

The writer of this story needs to do more research, he is obviously not an early adaptor to the PS3 or doesn't have one at all. I say this because

"Since the beginning of the console gamers have complained that the PS3 has forced them to abandon the former gamer ritual and buy, unpack and play, adding the additional and sometimes painful step of WAIT between savage unpack (ripping off shrinkwrap is always fun)"

Correct me if i'm wrong but i don't remember any game having "mandatory" installs prior to devil may cry and by that time PS3 had been on the market a year, and i don't recall too many PS3 owners complaining.

[Karum]

This is true, first disc based game I owned with an install was DMC4 and tbh I didn't mind it at all, in fact I thought nothing of it.

[VampHuntD]

Actually, the first big game install was DMC4. And it got heck cause the 360 version didn't have one. Other games, such as Heavenly Sword had installs long before DMC did.

And to people saying what about people that don't have internet, The author is probably suggesting an edition to PSN, not removing the data off the disc. The game needs the data to play I would think anyway so removing it would cripple the disc.

[xg-ei8ht]

Streaming can be done for ps3 from blu-ray, but i think some engines are not upto speed on this, and probably depends on type of game etc, i/e it would not work for madden.

The only reason for the installs, is because the 360 was out first and is slightly quicker from a x12dvd drive. So they install to stop the few seconds longer it takes to load. Personally does anyone care about a few more seconds of loading as opposed to an install.?

I think the install is okish, and does make the game slightly quicker, but quicker then what, yes you got it, the 360.

So let sum it up here.

Devs only do installs because of the 360.

Installs make the game load slightly quicker then the 360.

I'd rather wait 30seconds more to load then the install.

Don't shoot the messenger.

[kalel333]

now that's a sucky idea especially for people who have limited download capacity ( Ihave 20gb a mont !!! ) . Like one virtua fighter install (around 4gb) and I'm f*
cked !

[Darrius Cole]

As long as there is a standard hard drive there will be mandatory installs. The mandatory installs are a result of the standard hard drive that is in every PS3.

[SPECTRUX]

I didnt even think of this. Genius.

[I Call 9MM]

The solution here is go out and buy a 500 gigabyte hard drive for your PS3 and laugh at us 360 owners who are stuck with a 150 dollar 120 gig drive as our highest option. Gotta give credit to Sony for giving their customers the option there.

Go buy a bigger HDD and never worry about installs again (once the games been installed of course). If you can afford a PS3, you can afford another 100 bucks to buy a bigger hard drive (well, you won't get a 500 for that price, but you can definitely get a 250s and 320s for under a hundred bucks, I checked. 500s cost like close to 300 though).

As for internet downloads, that's just dumb. It would be slower then doing it from a disc, and I'm not to sure how good the PS3 is with background downloads while gaming. It would be nice to have the install downloaded before the game, but waiting 20 minutes to install isn't a big deal really. Better then 5 hours downloading (or more).

[kewlkat007]

why couldn't they just install all or most instead of in between?

I hate that in between install...

[LeonSKennedy4Life]

MGS4 was entertaining during the install though. I loved it!

[TheMART]

Uh not so great idea.

Because instead of the already long 25 minutes wait for disc installation, installing the same 5GB over PSN will take...

The time to download the stuff also, takes hours where the connection will be sucked up. Besides that the installation still takes place and takes time so...

The PS3 will keep the PC installations. Nothing a console should have, that should be pop in and play period. For all those gamers saying its not a big deal: you should have the choice, install or not, but not forced.

[juuken]

Uh, installs don't take twenty-five minutes long.

I don't know how you can justify that when you don't even own a PS3 to begin with. Installs take anywhere from five to seven minutes. It depends on your internet connection.

Unless you own a PS3, then I suggest not making retarded guesses. :)

[buckethead_X]

actually has a point; a choice would be good, although I love having faster loading in-game. Some people may have horrible connections. I'm not sure if a choice would be possible, however, so I'm not going to nit-pick or anything.

And don't worry, juuken; all is well now that we're in the beta :D

*loves the world*

[zo6_lover27]

There are plenty of games where you don't have a forced install.
GT5p, Soul Caliber 4 and Fallout 3 are the first to come to mind

[JBaby343]

Out of all my PS3 games (12) none has taken more than 5 minutes to install. You fail k-mart.

[LeonSKennedy4Life]

It's staring devs in the face and they don't want to do it.

GIVE US THE CHOICE!

I have a 20 gig.

Oblivion and DMC4 already took up half my harddrive.

[gololo]

hmmm...i don't have a problem...it seems the only ppl paying attention to this are haters...is not live i never installed a pc game before....

[dkgshiz]

Faster loading is quite nice.

[SONYSLAVE]

everyone loves to install

[juuken]

Again with installs?

I barely have problems with them. I got a faster internet connection so my installs will be done in minutes. The only people who complain about this are people who absolutely hate the PS3.

[LeonSKennedy4Life]

Also, the people who own 20 gig PS3's...

*points to self*

[VampHuntD]

I for one do not hate the PS3 and I don't even mind installs. But I will say this, when I bought DMC4 all I wanted to do was rip open the package and play. Not Possible due to install.

Does that matter? Not really, I enjoyed the back history of the DMC series (even though I've played them all) and once it was loaded I got busy. What I agree with the author on is it would be a cool feature if I could have downloaded the data early and skipped the wait.

[juuken]

...I thought you can change the harddrive on the PS3?

[UltimateIdiot911]

I <3 installation. Anything to make the gaming experience better is good. well most thing. Not endless peripherals and accessories.

[DARKTRINITYxxx]

Being a ex PC gamer im used to installing games onto the hardrive so its not really a problem for me. I own the PS3 40 gig model and i cant say that ive had any space problems either. Its not a big deal really its only imature XBOX30 gamers that make it abig deal.

[LeonSKennedy4Life]

How 'bout non-mandatory installs?

You could have the option of doing it or not.

UTIII had this option.

[beefinn101]

I don't have a problem with the mandatory game installs because I have a 80gig,but I do see how it can be a problem for the 20 & 40gig owners.With some of the newer games taking four to five gig per game to install(bioshock)you can run out of room real quick.I have a 20gig xbox360 with no game installs and Im just about out of room,so you can guess what the 20 & 40 gig PS3 owners are going through.

[Skynetone]

put a 160 gig in mine only a day ago {the fourty gig was p+++ing me off} and i didnt even have any game installs, just a few demos

[Slick348]

Impossible, i have a 80GIG with big games on it (dmc4,mgs4,sc4,vf,gta4,UT and a lot others)and not to mention demos, a lot of videos, and music on it. I still have 20+ on my ps3, so u obviously had to have more than just demo's on it

[qwertyuiopasdfghjkl]

OMG I just thought of the perfect solution!

If you quit beaching about game installs, it becomes less of a problem! Wow... who would have guessed right?

Honestly, do not complain about the HDD installs if you do not understand why they need to be done in the first place.

[Jdoki]

The thing I find odd is how long it takes to shift the data.

Two games can have similar sized installs, but one will complete significantly faster than the other (trying to think of an example!).

Anyone else notice this?

Installs are no big deal - however when you see Naughty Dog and Insomniac creating AAA titles with zero install delay, and only tiny data caches it makes me wonder what the hell is up with other developers (and that includes Kojima!!)

[Imallvol7]

What a great idea!

[C_Dub]

Installs suck -- Plain and simple. I never played a single PS2 or Xbox game that required an install, why do I have to now? It's lazy developers, that's what. When they get a clue how work around the PS3's internals, we won't have them anymore. That, my friends, is when installs on consoles will be a thing of that past, something to laugh about when we're gaming it up in 2010 (I assume it will take that long). A good development team doesn't need installs on PS3 to hide the work they didn't want to do.

[GameForFame]

This is retarded, people are b*tching not just about the install times in the beginning when they'd rather be playing, but the space the installs take up on the HDD. First off, people need to buy a bigger HDD, everyone should - secondly people just need to chill about the time it takes. Go smoke a cigarette, go grab a beer, go jerk off your little pen*ses while you wait and complain. There are folks that don't mind it, I don't love the installs but I don't hate em...they're there for a reason. Live with it, do what you can.

[silky]

lol

[gamerdude11]

I have never had an install take 10 minutes. It would take 2 - 3 hours for me to download a pre-packaged install file from PSN. I don't really know if this site is being sarcastic, or they aren't really thinking things through.