Rare dev: 'I don't think 360 has reached its limit'

Speaking to VideoGamer.com at the Develop conference in Brighton last week, Nick Burton, a senior software engineer at Rare, has assured Xbox 360 gamers that there's plenty more to come from the console.

"You never can push them as far as they can go. The reality of the peak performance of the console is yes, you could look to a generation beyond where we are now and think, yeah, I could use that power. But the reality is in 360 and the PS3 and the latest generation PC graphics, the amount of power in the GPUs is such that you're more bound by your creativity and the aesthetic you're going for than you're really bound by polygon pushing power," said Burton. "You're probably actually more bound maybe by art authoring and the amount of data throughput that, just the amount of memory you'd need, but I don't think 360 has reached its limit."

[Zhuk]

Xbox 360 games look better than PS3 games, they also run better than their PS3 counterparts, even after significant optimizations for the PS3s architecture the games still look and run inferior. Therefore, the Xbox 360 is more powerful based on the simple evidence that games look and play better on it than the PS3.

Technically, we know that the Xbox 360s GPU is more powerful than the PS3s. Also, the Xbox 360 uses unified shaders and memory and this allows the video to have access to the whole 512mb of RAM on the system , unlike the PS3 which only allows the GPU to use an insufficient 256mb. Also the PS3's firmware uses far more memory than the Xbox 360s dashboard, which does far more than the XMB for less. This allows more memory to be used for gaming than rather for non gaming processes. Then we must look at the infamous CELL processor, which has been proven that it is an inferior processor for games because of the nature of its much touted SPEs, whose capabilities are limited. Compared to the Xbox 360s 3core processor and its multithreaded architecture, the Xbox 360s processor simply put is far superior for gaming applications.

What we can deduce from these facts is that the Xbox 360 is the most powerful gaming console ever created.

What makes it really simple is to just compare the games, which system runs the games better and which system has the best looking games.

The answer is the Xbox 360.

[San anto]

shhhshshshshshhhhhhhh

[Kratos Spartan]

and the fanboys fear my name...

[DROIDS SUCK COCK]

KRATOS SPARTAN IS A STUPID DROID!

I DO NOT FEAR DROIDS, I WILL PISS ON THEM!

NOW FŲCK OFF AND DIE KRATOS SPARTAN!

[NO_PUDding]

Angry cus you'll need to buy a PS3 soon?

[juuken]

...No.

Okaaaay, let me say that again.

NO.

Five times!

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!

[PimpHandStrong]

What makes it really simple is to just compare the games, which system runs the games better and which system has the best looking games.

COD
Burnout
GTA
Oblivan

i have read ppl think these games look and run better on the PS3

MGS4
Uncharted
HS
MLB The Show

we can deduce that these games look better then anything on the 360

[Ali_The_Brit]

ah hush now you sad pathetic fanboy, go on, into the corner and play with your 360

[Pain]

when u make Ugly kiddy games for XBOX ...sure sky's the limit of there Fugtastic developer ability.

Make a Real game then talk.

and @Zhuk. do u even know what those console specs even mean? or u just copy paste what u thinks
looks bigger?

cuz if u did its PS3 hardware >>Xbox2 hardware. games speak for them selves and we not talking crappy xbox 2 ports.

[abcdog1000]

the thing is that developers are bearly unlock the true potental of the ps3. the xbox 360 was out for a full year before the ps3 so developers real got the hang of creating games for it, but therejust learning howto use the cell processor. the game that used of the ps3's power was uncharted which only used 30% and still looked better than any game on the 360. now that developers are understanding the cell they are devoping games for the ps3 first.

BUBBLES

[Solid_Snake666]

good thing hes not a fanboy

[KBDuB]

Okay.. first of all, don't mention Oblivion as looking better on the PS3. It came out like 8 months after the 360 version..

And, Uncharted looks great, but I think the 360 has some games that look better. But, I will agree only about MGS4..

[Egzekutor]

Youre talking about those crappy games that come out from devs that dont have a clue how to code properly on the PS3. Take a look at those skilled developers who develop for PS3 exclusively..

Can you remind me which 2 games will look worse on 360 because of the POOR DVD disc ??

One of them is DOOM4 , the other is ... find out for yourself.

I agree with that DEV... you can push XBOX 360 even further but im sorry you wont have the right disc to push it on, because its DVD..
You could do that if you made a 5 minute game..

XBOX 360 games look and run better ?

I wouldnt be soo sure about that.. take a look at B:BC.

You are comparing your crap XBOX 360 exclusives to PS3 ?

Resistance 2
Killzone 2
LPB
Siren
Heavy Rain 3
SOCOM
MGS 4
M.A.G ??

You will see graphicly similar games from EA etc soon enough .

Please b1tch, stop lying to yourself , I know your defending you crap old gen consoles by all means but if youre going to right that kind of bu1lsh1t, then do it in your mind because it makes me sick.
360 already going down to 199, why ? Because its loosing pretty badly, they will soon give it out for free just to get more people.

Cheap sh1t. Thats all i have to say.

[JBaby343]

I seriously am cracking up. I love your comments zhuk. Please don't ever leave N4G. I needed that. I love the one down below too with all the AAA games.

Too funny. If no one has ever read zhuk's comments before read them. Seriously they are great. They never let you down.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

All these droids in the denial boat, only they don't know it has a hole in it.

[Yemeni Xrats Killer]

i think xrat 3 red light have reach its limits with the release of bioshock!! and no just that but also the console limits, its dieing so fast, and with my spray i will make sure there is no memories of 360 and no one will talk about it

[Darkwolf]

Ive said it before and i'll say it again..ZHUK YOU ARE A W@nker..
the shiit you dribble is just beyond comprehension..we all know the 360 hit its limit when the first game for it was released..

[Mr Marbles]

has more brains in his left pinky than all of the idiot Sony leg humpers on this entire site combined.

[LoVeRSaMa]

The Denial Boat Sails faster then the Fail Boat tbh.

[Chandresh Patel]

FACT=The Playstation 3 is harder to develop for than the Xbox 360.

FACT=The Xbox 360 DISC SPACE is a GROWING PROBLEM for Developers.

If you think Lost Odyssey being on 3 Discs isn't a clear indication of a DISC LIMIT being reached,wait until you hear how many Discs FF13 will be shipping on for the Xbox 360.

[TheHater]

LO was four disk.

[Chandresh Patel]

I couldn't even accurately tell you how many Discs it was on because I forgot about 1.

[Gam71]

What does that have to do with the article?

Did you even read it or did you see the word limit and thought it was about disk space?

Read it next time, they're talking about hardware limits not disk space.

[devilhunterx]

The cow is a lie?

[Larry Fine]

used to be harder to develop for

[marinelife9]

Sounds like he isn't sure if the 360 has reached it's limit or not.
Must be getting pretty close to the max.

[DeadIIIRed]

If this guy is telling the truth, then why haven't I seen anything on the 360 in a year that raises the bar on graphics? C'mon, 360 owners should have something....anything to be more excited about than obtaining a TIMED Ps3 exclusive.

[power of Green]

The disc space is a growing problem but some how the PS3's architecture etc is not?. lol

[Gam71]

Fable 2 GoW2 etc.

Stop looking through those sony tinted glasses. There are plenty to be excited about.

You all have to drop this mistaken belief that 360 owners are somehow jealous of the ps3.

It's like me saying all ps3 owners have to look forward to is a 1 year pld 360 game.

[shazam]

both of those statements are opinion statements

@1.9 POGins

the ps3 architecture is a shrinking problem in my opinion

[Montrealien]

One disc games is very convenient, I like it. Do I care if a game needs to be on a few discs sometimes? absolutely not.

[wallace1000]

But is disc space really a problem when they can put a game on multiple discs? I have said it before and i will say it again, Baldur's Gate was a fantastic game and that was on 5 discs. Then again i am far from lazy so i have no problem changing discs :-)

[Kaneda]

disc space is the problem for developers to push 360 to the limit!

Above me.. Just imagine all games that comes out for 360 requires you to switch discs everytime you play. That will be hella annoying. Maybe a few games will be okay. But all 360 games.. that will be stupid! but the games that only on a single disc. It will not take full advantage of the 360. So, this generation 360 will not even run to its full potential..

[power of Green]

That is because you're a PS3 fan and you benefit from the lowest common denominator multi platform development method.

PS2 owners will be dazzled by the PS3 visuals, they don't know any better(including exclusives).

Devs are concerend about PS3's (G)raphics (P)rocessing (U)nit and System RAM, the Video Card in PS3 doesn't help either.

[wallace1000]

Honestly switching discs wouldn't bother me. I am used to it from computer games. I remember when sim city 2000 was on floppy discs and i had to switch those out :-P.

[DeadIIIRed]

Having their players get up and change disks isn't the concern of developers, its the cost of publishing a game on more than one disk and the loss of quality by cramming everything on the least amount of disks to save money.

[Rob0g0rilla]

But being limited to only 7gbs for a game is a bigger problem. Games get bigger and developers will want to save money by using lesser discs which could lower the quality of the game.

[aaquib5]

Gears of War 2 put 360 past its limit. MGS4 hasn't even touched the PS3's midpoint.

[RememberThe357]

...1up has a pretty good interview with John Carmack of id. In the interview he talks about how MS gets royalties for each DVD, or something like that, so it coast more than just the disc to put a game on more than one disc. You guys should watch it, the guy knows his sh*t.

http://www.gamevideos.com/v...

[vdesai]

Look I dont think you have any idea of what you are saying. First of all developrs dont care about he GPU btw you mentiond it twice, Video card is the GPU and there is no problem with it at all the only difficulty is the architecture itself its a derivative of PPC, with a mix of a CellFS (file system) which has never been used to create games. What developers really worry about is the SPEs because most developers dont know how too multithread properly let alone multithreading on 7 SPEs. Its a shrinking problem because knowledge can be expanded, but existing hardware is not. Now im assuming you didn't know this, but if you did you belong in the Open Zone. Yes contrary too popular belief the PS3 has 512mb of memory just like the 360 except its split into two pools, 256 for the system, 256 dedicated video memory. Now if you have ever used a computer you know that that can be changed very easily.

[Sitdown]

Hahaha......why did you give us the fact that the ps3 is harder to develop for? Okay...your point is?

Ohhh, and did we forget that the disc space is a null issue......1.)Because it is not difficult to change out disk. 2.)Did Microsoft not say you will have the ability to download to the hdd?

Which then that brings me to the point....if you look at the new dashboard coming, the ability to download to the hdd.....if indeed the 360 has or is reaching its limit......what do we know about its ability to evolve and push its limit further back?

[vdesai]

Ok you still need disk in the drive when you install too the Hard drive and the problem is that not all xbox 360s were shipped with hard drives or very little hard drive space. Remember the shorter the time it takes for you to install the lower the compression ratio. Im assuming Microsoft just went with imaging the disks not compressing it. Now if the games are DVD9s, which are about 8.5GB if you put two thats 17GB now if you do the math you can see this isn't really feasible for the people who bought the cheaper systems.

Also could those who disagreed with my previous comment comment on why they disagreed with me that would give me a chance to carry on a conversation.

[PotNoodle]

People would stop using the 'Xbox 360 will need more disks for this game blah' crap. We have been swapping disks since the ps1 (maybe earlier but i can't remember) so why all of a sudden are we starting to argue this?

Don't take me as some xbox fanboy, because infact i've always prefered my playstations to my xbox's (Owned both xbox's) i'm just a playstation type of guy.

[BWS1982]

that it's about costs in a big way. Both consoles have great attributes....but it's very expensive for a publisher/dev to make a 3+ disc package, the royalties, etc...It's very expensive. I don't really know if this has affected games coming to the 360 thus far, as it's not really shown it's in need of a faster paced growth to it's catalogue, so perhaps it's not making a difference, but my point is it's very much about money and a lot less about disc swapping, which many of us are used to.

Anyways, on the topic of the article, which is more about hardware, not media, I tend to agree...I went to the Art Institute outside Chicago, and have a Media Arts/Animation degree (B.F.A.)...artistic design and knowhow as well as finding workarounds can extend the lifespan of something very well, technically. A ceiling is eventually a more pertinent issue as time goes on, but the 360 hasn't hit that ceiling IMO. Although I'll admit that there's been lately a slow increase in graphical showcases, from what I've seen in the pipeline, there's more to come.

[godofthunder10]

I'm not a childish fanboy of any gamesole because i'm not going to fight over a stupid thing like that.I will agree that the ps3 is a damn good console and the most dependable one that was ever sold.

The 360 and the ps3 are real damn good systems and the facts prove it not just the ps3.A ps3 fanboy claimed and i QUOTE,I haven't seen anything on the 360 that raises the bar on graphics? C'mon, 360 owners should have something....anything to be more excited about than obtaining a TIMED Ps3 exclusive UNQUOTE.The truth is that this guy is such a big ps3 fanboy that he can't even admit the truth that ps3 fans were excited over some 360 timed exclusives to not just 360 fans like he is claiming and the facts also show that the 360 graphics are getting better all the time.The truth is that the 360 and ps3 graphics are so close that you can't even tell the difference and some times the same game looks better on the ps3 then the 360 and some times it looks better on the 360 then the ps3.

I'm also tired of hearing about that microsoft should have put br in the 360 because now it's out dated because a few games need more then one disc,i can't belive that a person is to damn lazy where they can't even change a disc out.The truth is that microsoft was smart when they didn't put br in the 360.Microsoft was smart enough to know that we really didn't need br for games then and we don't need it now.Microsoft also knew that they needed to keep the 360 price down if they wanted to compete with sony and it worked because after 3 years they are still ahead of sony.

The truth is that about %97 of the games on the 360 or more only need 1 disc.They have about 10 games or less that needs more then 1 disc and the average person might buy one of them,so far i didn't buy any game that needed more then 1 disc because i don't like any of them so far. Just because the 360 might have about 15 games that needs more then 1 disc at the end of 2010 doesn't mean that we should have a br drive in the 360 now and pay an extra $300 just because we don't want to get up and maybe change 1 disc out of the games that they have.

Microsoft knew what they were doing when they didn't put br in the 360 now.The truth is that the 360 would be out at least 5 years before we really need br for games and it might be 1 or 2 years more and they are right.I would like one ps3 fanboy to honestly say that out of the 15 games that we might have at the end of 2010 that they would buy half of them.

We might need a br drive around 2011 for games and the 360 would be out about 6 years and it would be time to put a new system out because they are already talking about new engines that they have comeing out and the consoles that's out now want be able to handle it so they will use it on the next systems that comes out.

Like i said i'm not a childish fanboy but if people from both sides stop acting childish and start admitting the truth instead of acting bias we could have a real debate instead of childish remarks that fanboys post.

The most ridiculious remarks that i've read is where someone posted a remark and said the reason that microsoft don't want to put br in the 360 is because sony want to charge them a lot more to use br then other companies and some articles claimed that sony refused to let microsoft use br.

The truth is that sony needs microsoft more then microsoft needs sony.people need to remember that microsoft is a software company first and sony is a hardware company.Sony uses microsoft programes in almost all their products.Sony uses microsoft programes in their computers,cameras, and other products.Microsoft could hurt sony by stop letting them use their programes but sony can't really hurt microsoft.The reason that microsoft is letting sony use their programes when they are competers is because it's a smart buisness deal for both companies and it will be the same when in a few years microsoft will have to put br in the 360 and sony will let them at the same price as the other companies because it's a smart buisness deal for both companies and it will make a lot of money for both of them.

[jmorph9]

is that now everything needs to be installed to the hard drive. For the ps3 it is because of disk access speed, for the xbox it is because of DVD space limitation.

The real problem for the 360 is the 20G hard drive most users own, and the fact you can not upgrade for a reasonable price, or without the hassle of transferring your saved game data. Even 120G sounds a little small for the future.

The ps3's real advantage is larger drive space, ease of upgrade, and not being locked in by a custom drive. The 360 disk drive are over-priced and too small.

P.S. I own a 360 and not a PS3

[Kaneda]

Wallace.. I did say a few games are okay.. but if most the games that require you to switch disc that will be annoying.

yeah, PC no longer required to switch disc. Install on the HD. :)

[Omega4]

Art style will always trump technical prowess. Having the most powerful machine doesnt always guarantee the best looking games

Which is why as long as there are creative devs out there the 360 can still produce better looking games than the PS3 even at the end of both their lifecycles.....also having the better GPU helps as well

[felidae]

eehm. ps3 has the best looking games.

[thenickel]

eehm. Stop lieing to yourself. PS3 deoesn't have the best looking games and neither does 360. It's all a matter of opinion so get over yourself.

[NO_PUDding]

No seriously, technically the PS3 has better looking games.

And not only that, the 360 developers have no games that boast great art style. The most impressive art style in the industry is still Shadow of the Colossus, and Team ICo are Sony first party.

The most visually impressive games will always been on the PS3 until the next generation.

[thenickel]

Do us all a favor and shut up seriously...If thats what you believe then fine but don't go around talking like it's a fact just because your in bed with Sony. There is nothing on Sonys platform that looks technically or visually better then anything on 360. Maybe next year or the year after there will be but now nothing.

[SL1M DADDY]

When it comes to reviews, many authors have stated that some of the best looking games are on the PS3. MGS4, Uncharted, SS:HD, and GT5:p all look awesome and have been subject to claim as the best looking console games ever made. I am not saying it’s because of the hardware as that is something we will have to see as time passes but that is just what I have read on the web from some pretty respected review sites and magazines.

Both consoles have their give an take. Take GT5:P and Forza 2 for instance. Both look great but it is common knowledge that GT5:P looks far better than Forza 2 but Forza 2 has damage effects and apeals to a different crowd. It's a give and take and we won't know what console can put out the best graphics for years to come.

[PimpHandStrong]

well Uncharted and MGS4 both look better then anything on the 360

I guess you must mean multi-platform games look better on the 360??! maybe yea? Thats what your saying?

Thats not really true anymore so what are you saying when you say the 360 has better looking games!

you can keep telling yourself the 360 has better looking games but the only game that comes close is Gears of War and thats still the best looking game in 3 years on the 360!

[La Chance]

absolutely ! I totally agree with you art style/design is more important to my eyes than graphics alone.

For instance Jet Set Radio would NEVER have been as memorable and cool if it had lets say super photorealistic graphics that used all the power of the xbox (talking about JSRF).The game just wouldnt have been as good if it had 2x better graphics and dropped that special art design

Then games like Ico for instance werent graphical powerhouses but looked sublime thanks to the art design.Now imagine an Ico with with far better graphics but without that special design it had...it wouldnt have looked that good.

[thenickel]

Once again Pimphandstrong thats your opinion so don't go around preaching it like it's the gospel or something. Some of us and I'm sure many don't find those games on PS3 to be the best looking games ever. They look good but nothing earth shattering just like theres nothing earth shattering on 360 either. You need to get a hold of yourself and your ego because it's hard to take someone serious that always thinks there right.

[SuperM]

You dont have to be a sony fanboy to see that the best looking ps3 games has the edge over the best looking 360 games. Dont get me wrong, Gears of War both looks and plays great. I have it on my pc and it is a very very good game, but it is not as visually impressive as uncharted and MGS4 yet it is the best looking game on the xbox. When it comes to driving games you would have to be crazy thinking anything else then GT5P being the best looking game on the market. And Ratchet and Clank is the best looking platformer. This is not about talking crap on the xbox, this is just about saying it as it is. If the xbox had the best looking games then i would say so. I dont have a problem with that. Neither should any xbox owners have a problem with ps3 exclusives looking slightly better then the xbox games. After all the ps3 is more expensive, so naturally it should have tech with a higher potential performance. Even Gametrailers, known for their biased comparison videos (Assassins Creed and GRID in particular) admited that uncharted was easily the best looking console game when it was released. If you dont believe me just check the review.

[Bangladesh]

Here is a game that looks as good as any ps3 game in existence. And to boot, the 360 version of this game looks better than the ps3 version. Oh, and it's a first generation 360 game.

And I'm not done yet, I've got a couple more vids to show.

[Bangladesh]

I think you idiots knew this one was coming.

edit- Here is a game with nice graphics and a beautiful art style.
http://www.gametrailers.com...

[Bangladesh]

Another great looking 360 game.

[Bangladesh]

Where are they Pimphand? Suddenly don't want to talk anymore SuperM? What about you Slim Daddy? Huh, No Pudding anything you want to say?Where are these uber fantastical ps3 games that shame the 360? Here I'll post vids of your ammunition Uncharted and MGS4.

http://www.gametrailers.com...
http://www.gametrailers.com...

After watching the 360 vids that I posted, are you idiots HONESTLY trying to tell people that the 2 games above couldn't EASILY be done on 360? I'll be waiting on these "uber" ps3 games that you guys keep telling people about, because I KNOW Uncharted and MGS4 aren't them.

[vdesai]

Technically the PS3's GPU is better it runs at 550MHz while the 360's GPU runs at 500MHz. PS3 games do look better no matter what you say what excuse you give it may be a matter of opinion. Don't pay attention to just what you play look around look at the foreground the background and then shading and lighting. But the problem that not all 360s come in full HD capabilities. When you don't include an HDMI port you have too worry about those consumers who didn't get the HDMI port.

[Bangladesh]

Tech jargon means absolutely nothing to me when I can see the end result with my own eyes.

[vdesai]

I was correcting omega64 about the GPU not saying it has any adverse effects, but games look better if you dont feel that way im sorry I havent convinced you im sorry im not paid too do that, wait a second im not paid at all im just stating my opinion. Any how its ok some may prefer a different look then others but technically speaking games are better on the PS3. If you dont care about techno jargon I guess we could just say the PS3 is better then the 360, if you don't like techno jargon then there is no way for you too back any opinion while I do. Im sorry if I hurt your feelings but if you have ever played a game on the PC you know all that matters is the techno jargon. Crysis is the best looking game period, because it requires the best hardware too run.

[Bangladesh]

Fair enough, you can look at a piece of paper and Say the ps3 is technically better. And I'll look at the actual games produced and SEE that the ps3 is not.

[vdesai]

Maybe if you watch the trailers in HD you may notice the diffrence.

Uncharted:
http://www.gametrailers.com...

MGS4:
http://www.gametrailers.com...

GT5P:
http://www.gametrailers.com...

GeoW:
http://www.gametrailers.com...

Forza:MS 2:
http://www.gametrailers.com...

How did a "glorified demo" trump the full release of Forza makes you wonder dosent it. Maybe if you open your eyes yes the 360 is a decent system maybe the games can be created to match the quality of the PS3 visuals but there are no games that exist currently that surpass or even match the quality of these games. You cant tell how good a game looks by playing it through composite, or by playing a minime flash video. Its like comparing videos of these games on youtube.

Maybe this will jog your memory of how gametrailers likes to fuel things.

GRID:
http://www.gametrailers.com...

Edit: At below don't compare multi-plat ports because they were not coded for the PS3 they are not bug free no multi-plat game looks better on either system. NO MATTER WHAT GAME IT IS. There maybe a difference in sharpness, etc. but no difference in the visual quality. These are statements made by fanboys which are not true at all.

[snyper831]

have you people noticed most multi platform games look better on the 360 than ps3 am I right???? Sony fans brag that games like uncharted and gran turismo have graphics the 360 cant match am I right??? Have you wonder how would those games look if they were made on the 360???? exactly the same if not better just like any other port.Please people get over it ps3 and 360 are equal on the graphic side, is not fair comparing gran turismo to forza 2 developers were aiming different goals as you can see forza has a damaging system something gran turismo is lacking have you wonder why??? It takes a lot of hard work implementing it and because of it it takes a hit on the graphics. Sony on the other hand went crazy throwing double the poly count for every car at the cost of excluding a damaging system and lowering shading texture quality on the backgrounds, the results, really beautifull looking cars at high resolution.As far as metal gear solid 4 Konami developer has said the game can be done on the 360 on multi discs ofcourse.My point is ps3 is not what sony is trying to make believe it is,both systems are equal capable of producing amazing graphics get over it fanboys get a life...................

[devilhunterx]

Pakistan RULES!

[Rog Vader]

Uncharted is a good looking game, but I agree with Bangladesh. lol it's hard to deny it when the proof is right there.

[TheExecutive]

you idiots, show me a game as technically impressive as KZ2 on the 360.

[Rog Vader]

I played KZ2 at E3, it's more artistically impressive than technically impressive. Almost everyone I spoke with couldn't stand the speed of the games main character, myself included. But seeing the bits of vibrant color against the gray really is a nice artistic design imo. I got more excited by this Gears of War 2 video than playing KZ2.
http://www.gametrailers.com...

[Isaac]

This is an Xbox 360 thread full of 360 fanboys. However, your videos are a joke if you think they compare to the best on PS3. I mean come on, Splinter Cell looks like MGS Twin Snakes with a bit of next-gen polish. I mean if you seriously think that equals uncharted you're hilarious, first of all the skin in uncharted's characters looks near realistic getting very as far from the uncanny valley as it had never been done before. The character models in Splinter Cell look like plastic.

Furthermore, the lighting model in uncharted is clearly better, but of course you can barely notice that in the closed areas of Splinter Cell. Uncharted certainly does not look like Crysis does in terms of vegetation and environmental interactivity, but as for facial and character animation it is most definitely superior.

Funny you also bring to the table two Unreal Engine games when the first one (Gears) is clearly inferior to Uncharted in terms of color and polygon count per character (and storyline, for that matter, but that is not tech specs). The bodies of characters in uncharted look very detailed, what about Gears? Oh yeah, they have to wear huge armor to mask those low polygon models because the Unreal Engine is dated.

Also, how come you mention Mass Effect when it suffers from lots glitches and it runs in a multiplatform engine? How is it that most "good looking" games you mention are made by the unreal engine? Can't they make their own engines? And now that we are at it, another game that uses UE3 is Lost Odyssey. And while the main character Kaim looks great, the rest of the characeters look like plastic, which is again not very surprising coming from another Unreal Engine game.

I only hear excuses from Xbox fanboys, especially from those that like to consider themselves neutral but really aren't. It's ok, just admit it you are biased and that it is a hard pill to swallow that there will be things on 360 that will not be possible. I only see excuses from Xbox fanboys when they talk about GT5P versus Forza "Bu... bu... damage!", "bu... bu... they were aiming for something else!". The reason GT5P has no damage is not because it is impossible or because they can't do it, clearly it is the most advanced racing simulator on any console, but having so much support from the Car industry is a big burden on the developer, since, as Yamauchi said, not all Car makers want to let them model damaged cars. Forza looks good but not as good as GT5P. There is no shooter looking as good as Killzone 2 on 360, is there any game with water as realistic as the one we saw, in REAL TIME, in Resistance 2? Not even Bioshock can claim that, and Bioshock just became multiplatform anyway.

I don't even know why I waste my time with these dense fanboys anyway, I'm sure you, bangladesh, are not but just reading "LOL WHY IF PS3 IS BETTER DO MULTIPLAT GAMES DONT BETTER LOL" makes me lose hope for all humanity. It is of course easier to make claims than to actually do some research into how computers (and consoles) work, difference in architectures, horsepower, rawpower, programming techniques, programming efficiency, etcetera.

Now that I'm at it, I'll say it again... PS3 has definitely more Raw Power than 360. It is not just paper, it is not just countless of tests that prove that the cell processor is better than many GPUs combined at graphics related tasks, it is not just folding at home, it is not all those scientists claiming that by doing science simulations, it is not that Cell can process anything multimedia related like a hot knife through butter, it is also the exclusive games we've seen.

Again, 360 fanboys love to CLAIM those can be done on 360, but fail to do their research. Sure, multiplat games have been better (initially) on 360 because the 360 is a very flexible machine, unlike the PS3. The PS3 is more streamlined, which means it is focused in delivering more horsepower in exchange for specific ways of programming, so lazy developers of mediocre games will not make good PS3 games. There are definitely games that 360 can run that Ps3 can't, but not because 360 is more powerful, it is because of the way the games are programmed. To make a game look better on PS3 they would have to start over and that will never happen. However, if you start a game on PS3, you WILL get better results on PS3 as it happened on several games already according to game reviewers.

Games have looked great on 360 because well, it is very flexible and easy to program for, and that is why a lot of its power was squeezed on year one. On the other hand, people are barely coming to grips with PS3 development, and they are not even taking advantage of the Blu-ray, the Cell Processor, and the specific way PS3's RAM and video card process information.

Anyway, the proof is in the pudding, and there are still no games looking as good as PS3 exclusives, only Xbox fanboys claiming that. Just showing videos does not make it any true, it just makes you look brave, but again that is an epic fail of an attempt. Ultraman, try next time with "THATS YOUR OPINION LOL", yeah, my opinion is that mickey mouse on NES looks better than Crysis *sigh*

[Rog Vader]

I agreed with Bangladesh because he's right. He even provided videos and proved his point. You are just talking out of your a**, because that's all a Sony fanboy like you can do in this situation. I would be willing though to bet my PS3 that the people that disagreed with him are rabid Sony fanboys like yourself, people that obviously know nothing outside of the PS3.

[BWS1982]

how did anyone "prove" anything? The interpretation of "videos" is not an exact science, why do fanboys (which I am not one of) seem to feel anybody can ever prove an opinion? I think the answer is that they feel they don't have opinions, only a mental storage of facts. This entire argument, to an extent, is like debating what color is the prettiest. It's not going to fly, and words intended to prove anything here hold no merit. Now you want to debate finite numbers or specs of systems, that's slightly different....

[Daishi]

COD4, just youtube the comparison videos of the two and there you have it. Also try Warhound if your looking for a future game that rivals it. Also try Geometry Wars 2 if you want something with better AI ;p (joking)

[SL1M DADDY]

You wasted your bubbles on those games and you have nothing on Uncharted. Sorry, but Google these key words. Best Looking Console Game. Tell me what comes up. When you come back and see page after page of reviews stating that Uncharted is the best looking console game to date, then you will understand what I posted. As I said, I posted what was being said by reviews. Gears of War was pretty but pretty bland. Mass Effect was ok but suffered from massive frame rate issues and did not have the textures that MGS4 has, not even close. And for you to even bring up Splinter Cell 4... Sorry, but that is just pathetic.

Go on and waste your bubbles bud, the sooner you post them all the sooner we gamers do not have to listen to your silly fanboy blather.

[Bubble Buddy]

careful guys, lots of 360 lovers. Anything you say will be auto-disagreed. I'd want to see a humble and fair developer like Insomniac give their two cents on the 360 and I'll listen. Rare is pretty good but I trust Insomniac more even if they never developed for the 360.

[fufotrufo]

Zhuk..even thou ..i agree with you..you are going to get killed by angry ps3fanboys

[Hellsvacancy]

neither do i - the 360 can/will get even more sh|tty

and who cares wot u think Zhuk loooooooooser

[juuken]

But it is limiting in space.

EDIT: Lol, and the disagrees. I don't think the 360 has reached it's limit in a certain degree but when you think about it, space will become an issue. And before you gang on me and claim I didn't read the article, I actually read it.

[La Chance]

annoying its not even possible.

You are REALLY REALLY REALLY a ball in the neck.

[juuken]

Why thank you! :)

I love being annoying, especially when I have something called an *opinion* and I'm not afraid to voice it. You're just annoyed because I'm always criticizing the 360 and I'm not the type of person to kiss Microsoft's ass.

EDIT: Whooo GMER, low blow! I could criticize Sony as much as Microsoft. I could criticize Sony by saying they marketed something that wasn't ready yet, among other things. I have the ability to criticize both Sony and Microsoft. I tend to criticize/question Microsoft more because ya gotta wonder what kind of strategy they're using for their system that they allowed a company like Sony to bypass them in sales for months.

[GMR_PR]

@ La Chance

"You are soooooo
annoying its not even possible.
You are REALLY REALLY REALLY a ball in the neck."

No doubt about that.

@ juuken

"You're just annoyed because I'm always criticizing the 360 and I'm not the type of person to kiss Microsoft's ass."

No, but you do Sony's.

[Gam71]

Nah juuken.

You don't criticise sony because your in bed with them.

[juuken]

Wow Gam71...real cute. As if most 360 owners don't act as if they're married to Microsoft or something that they always have to come running to defend it no matter what they do.

[Gam71]

Not so much M$ running to defend it as £ony fans running to attack.

This is a 360 thread and your here why?

To add to the discussion?
No to feed your insecurities. Buyers remorse?

You have a game worth playing now so go play it. Don't worry about what we 360 fans are doing or playing.

Play your own system.

Tell me oh wise one. Why is it ps3 threads are mostly full of ps3 fans and their comments but 360 threads are full of ps3 fans and their attacks?

Why the insecure need to attack all the time?

[juuken]

And going by your logic, I can ask you why you're on PS3 threads to begin with.

This is not a 360 thread. It's in the E3 08' section, which means I have a right to comment. If you don't like my opinions, then I suggest you put me on your ignore list.

It's that simple. :)

[ToastyMcNibbles]

"360 hasnt reached its limit" no sh!t...none of these systems have reached their limit...its still waaaaaaay too early for any of that

[TheHater]

I agree. The xbox 360 is only three years into in life cycle. And the PS3, and Wii is only 2 years into theirs

[u got owned]

Finally someone is making sense in this thread.

How people think this consoles reach their pick so early in it's cycle is beyond me.

[wallace1000]

Well said dude. The problem with many of the fanboys on this site (fanboys of the different systems) is that they will use any little thing to try and down the system that they don't support. It is a sad existence, but many of us are fans of gaming and intelligent conversation.

[TheExecutive]

I agree with you but in the same breath where are all of the powerhouse 360 games? I mean gears of war was released in '06.

Its been 3 years since the 360 has been out. The PS3 will turn 3 years old next November. By that time Killzone 2 (in fact about 2.5 years into the lifecycle) will be out, maybe GT, inFamous, possibly GOW3 but i see NO games that look nearly as good as KZ2. If you compare the life of the consoles to where their games are at I think you will see the graphics winner.

[byeGollum]

coming from a microsoft owned studio dev, what you expect him to say ? 'we've maxed out the 360, theres nothing else we can do'' ?

[Mr Marbles]

just stop, so what if MS owns rare, who else would know about the limits of 360, a Sony developer?

In fact, had this been a Sony developer saying something positive about the PS3 you would be worshipping his words as gods.

So pleas cut it out, we all know what you are all about.

[Gam71]

just stop, so what if MS owns rare, who else would know about the limits of 360, a Sony developer?

I really do appreciate a good comeback.
That put him in his place.

Shame ps3 threads don't get hi-jacked like this.

Actually it's not. Shows 360 and ninty fans have a bit more class.

[GarandShooter]

'Actually it's not. Shows 360 and ninty fans have a bit more class.'

That's the biggest bullsh!t I've read today. The 360 boys have been giving it to the Sony boys since day one. I own and enjoy both consoles, and while I only have been a member here a few months, I've read this site for quite longer, and 360 fanboys have been trashing Sony and their fans from the jump. I'll believe a fan on either side when they rebuke their own for saying stupid sh!t about the other.

And 360 fans with class....been on XBL recently?

[59fifty8]

i do and ps3 games are now starting to look better look at cod4, sc4 and grand theft auto plus ps3 games are better i mean ninja gaiden is alright but compared to hevenly sword not to mention god of war, plus the ps3 is more powerful the games look better and play better look at mgs4, u guys lost u suk.

[Kratos Spartan]

I hear you talking...put those words into action and prove it then.

Edit: dang, looks like a couple of people don't want them to prove it. I wonder what they are afraid of?

[Xi]

of banjo kazooie N&B on the 360, the game looks absolutely beautiful, moreso then anything I've seen on either platform, including ratchet and clank. And it's also an open world game.

Also, perfect dark has some forest scenes that are more impressive then haze and uncharted, but this is stuff that you'd probably never know considering you'd actually need to play the games to find out...

[beavis4play]

it's a year old game that embarrasses rare and their new BK game and it's blocky character design.

[Kratos Spartan]

why are you getting so defensive? The guy said 360 hasn't reached its limit, so I said prove it. I'm not here to compare games, so don't try and force me to a particular side of your console war, chump. And no, I'm not interested in Banjo Kablooey. I don't care what looks better than what, that would be just arguing opinions, which I leave to the fanboys to do, like yourself.

[Gam71]

Someone with your name and sig kronos and uses name calling tatics like "Banjo Kablooey" has chosen a side.

He did offer you a way to prove it. Check out hd footage of the games he said. He gave the comparison because thats the camp you're in and it's a way of getting you to understand his point.
Why are you so scared to?
You do seem to be on the defensive hi-jacking a 360 thread.

Bet you wouldn't say prove it if it was a sony thread. You'd probably lap it up then ask for more spin.

Don't have a go at him for doing what you asked. Short of coming round to yours with a hd tv and 360 + those games what else can he do?

Also it looks like rare will "prove it" thats why he made the statements. So you're asking them to do what they are already doing?

But given your previous comments and the side you choose I guess you wouldn't see the irony there.

[Kratos Spartan]

No I did not choose a side. You fanboys seem to choose sides for other people. I'm on my side. You got so defensive that you have no idea what you just posted. The Rare Dev said it hasn't reached its limit. Don't say it. Show us it hasn't reached its limit. It really isn't too hard to understand. Anybody. Any system. Any game. I didn't ask anyone on here to prove anything. I was directing it at the article at hand here. But you are so blinded by this console war you like to argue about, that you cannot understand anything. Hey I want Rare to prove it just as much as you do.

Don't put words in my mouth. Don't force me to a side on this subject. Once again, another kid on here trying to feel like his life is worth something.

[Kratos Spartan]

I say Banjo Kablooey and that puts me on a "side". Maybe I don't care for the game, not the system it is on.

Blinded by the light...

[Gam71]

And read what i said

Their next few games will prove it one way or another. Some sad 12yo trying to defend his choice in front of his parents or parent telling them to "prove it" isn't adding to the discussion.

I'm sure your name and avatar and the way you attack the 360 then claim everyone else (i.e. 360 fans only) show you haven't taken a side.

You've shown your colours and are simply playing the "I'm an impartial observer" to get your digs in and to somehow convince everyone else you and your opinions are superior.

Who's the child?

[Xi]

All I did was provide evidence that Rare has not only already lived up to their word, but that their new titles continue to expand on it. It's obvious that the one who's defensive is you as you fall back to ad hominem attacks.

You've obviously never read any of the previews on the titles because all say that the look and feel are outstanding and they hold true to the archaic BK64 titles. That blocky character design is a choice, as is the level design, and they pull it off flawlessly. The water looks drinkable and the detail is outstanding.

However what evidence do you provide to the contrary, you say nothing that is constructive to help facilitate a decent conversation. You insult Rare by insulting their product, then proceed to call me a fanboy, which is clearly against the rules.

I understand if you do not hold the same position, or opinion but by no means are you right in anything you've said. You're clearly not neutral with regards to MS and the 360, and you obviously know nothing about the games associated to it. Why bother posting in this thread at all is puzzling.

[RAM MAGNUMS]

please name the 1 game that looks better than
the ps3 exclusives please.
Phuck copy & pasted tech specs, we all know cell is
the best but please, I'm begging you xbots...
name 1 game!

I'm waiting!

Nothing? Stfu & gtfo!
you liars!
xbox360 is maxed! Why do you think its even a
topic?
duh?!

[Zhuk]

Halo 3, Gears of War, Mass Effect, Kameo, Viva Pinata, Ace Combat 6, PGR 4, Forza 2 and countless other AAA Xbox 360 titles look better than anything on PS3, and that is not including all the AAA exclusives that are being released this year such as Fable 2, Too Human, Gears of War 2, Banjo 3, Viva Pinata 2 and many others which show the Xbox 360s clear technical superiority over the PS3, accomplishing things that the PS3 would never be able to do.

[FAQS]

Q: Halo 3???????
A:...........
Q: Viva Pinata????????????????????????
A:.............
Q: Banjo kazoie???????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????? ??
A:..........
Q:Kameo?????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????? ???????????
A:......................
Q: PGR4 and Forza2????????????????????????
A:.........................
Q: and countless (?) other games that you don't know the names (or don't exist)?
A:.........................
Q:AAA games?????????? Against MGS 4, Uncharted, GT 5, Tekken 6, God War 3, Resistance 2, Killzone 2, Motorstorm, Ratchet Clank TD, Little Big Planet....!?
A:....................
Q: Are you serious?
A:...........................

[Andronicus]

FAct Rare is owned by MS....

[GiantEnemyCrab]

They are not the only dev to say it so while I see you want to downplay what they are saying because they owned by MS it should be rather obvious that a console doesn't reach it's limits this early in its life. FACT

[byeGollum]

i hope none of them reach their limits they are all still capable of releasin quality games - especially ps3/360

[59fifty8]

hevenly sword, warhawk, resistence fall of man, uncharted drakes fortune, and metal gear solid 4, yeah
and for the new ones like
resistence 2, mag, tekken 6, god of war 3, and killzone u know i dont like u or xbox 3fixme

[TheBatman_Fanatic]

Xbox 3fixme LOL!!!!! i prefer PS3 thanx

[PS3Diablo]

It's not like Viva Pinata and Banjoo are good looking games, they are mediocre at best, obviously when you create games with such sub-par graphics you imagine the system can do more... reality is, Gears 2 will have maxed out the system's potential.

[Zerodin]

I suggest you sit down and actually PLAY Viva Pinata. It looks plenty good, and it has something 90% of console games seem to forsake, COLORS!

[59fifty8]

BUBBLES FOR U MY FRIEND

[The real killer]

Zhuk, be real please.

"Xbox 360 games look better than PS3 games, they also run better than their PS3 counterparts, even after significant optimizations for the PS3s architecture the games still look and run inferior. Therefore, the Xbox 360 is more powerful based on the simple evidence that games look and play better on it than the PS3"

There is no evidence what you are saying, only words by 360 developers use the 360 as lead platform ;)

"Technically, we know that the Xbox 360s GPU is more powerful than the PS3"

What a crap answer you gave here, the RSX is also very powerful and yes more poweful than you think.

Do you know the RSX is more powerful than Xenos?
They did not full test with the RSX to the max.

It's a very and very powerful chip just like the cell, but only the cell works with the RSX. Even without the Cell is the RSX very powerful ;) more than you thin about it :)

the two GPU's are just fine.

[morganfell]

Don't bother arguing with him. He thinks he knows more than John Carmack who certainly disagrees with him. He is like the captain of the Titanic insisting his ship isn't sinking. The guy is a turd in the pool of gaming and he needs to be strained out and tossed in the toilet.

[59fifty8]

pgr4 suk, doa4 suks, halo 3 suks, ace combat suks, viva pinata suks, banjo suks, kameo trash, forza garbage, and what dats it the only gud xbug game is gears.

[DROIDS SUCK COCK]

THE ONLY THING SUCKING AROUND HERE ARE DROIDS LIKE YOU!

TAKE A BREAK, I'M SURE YOUVE SUCKED ENOUGH SONY CỌCK FOR ONE DAY!

REMEMBER, ALL THAT CUM WILL MAKE YOU DROIDS RUST!

[fufotrufo]

you suck

[KBDuB]

You're trash.

[titntin]

He's quite right and you wouldn't expect him to say anything else even if he wasn't right - he's an MS employee!! :)

None of the machines have reached the full potential of what their architecture can achieve, though I firmly believe the architecture of the 360 and the use of known development tools has helped developers to utilise its strengths quicker in the cycle than its main rival. But there's surely more in there to 'tap' still, and enterprising developers will use that extra 'grunt' in the coming years.

For some types of games the disc storage IS becoming an issue, but its not an insurmountable one, and its not really relevant to the point this dev is making, which is based on the power of a games engine to push data around, not on how much data the engine can ultimately access..

[JBaby343]

I firmly believe you make the most level-headed and intelligent comments on N4G. I agree with everything you said. You put it perfectly.

Nicely done. *bubbles up*

[59fifty8]

and proud cause my system is better and urs suk haha ur losing

[Says you]

Notice Halo 3 and Gears of War 2 and Ninja Gaiden II if the XBox 360 cant even make its exclusive any different from there other games like Halo 3 being hd and Gears of War 2 not any different from the first one and cant even manage Ninja Gaiden II 720p considering Microphony said that's the sweet spot then it has hit its prematurity its just a pathetic mans PC.

[TheBatman_Fanatic]

gears 2 does look the same, it has some new features but nothing to awe about and will get boring QUICK!!!!

[Masko]

both systems have the same graphical potential in my opinion. the most important thing to me is solid gameplay. even a game with "poor" graphics by nowadays standards, still looks ok on the eyes. gameplay is what makes a game fun

[fufotrufo]

some guys here expect to be taken serious with a freaking ps3 in theirs names.. btw ..Viva Pinata looks beautiful on my LCD..rare graphics are clean ,sharp , highly detailed

Edit Rply:

well ..you said they are mediocre at best..and i highly disagree i don't expect an old game like viva pinata to push a system graphically ..but its one of the best example of beautiful graphics in its genre.. far from mediocre

as for Gears Of War 2 reaching the system limit ..im going to say stfu because you don't know anything or have proven facts to support that statement ..you don't work in a gaming company ..neither develop 360 games to be taken seriously .. nobody here knows..especially in N4G ..a site flooded with PlayStation fans and full of gaming PR trying to discredit other consoles to get more sales

[PS3Diablo]

just because I have PS3 in my name doesn't mean I don't or didn't own an Xbox 360, I actually purchased a 360 on day 1 and sold it last december. I played Viva Pinata and the game was addictive but don't tell me the graphics where breaking the systems graphical barrier, you'd only be fooling yourself.

[Skynetone]

im still waiting for a realistic t-rex

[apoc615]

I know mine reached its limit and RRoD four times since Feb/2006.

[u got owned]

WOW! i have two 360s and none of the have RROD on me. I think the problem here is you. You're probably doing something wrong with your 360, try to keep it ventilated.

[wallace1000]

Either you are unlucky or something may be a miss. Treat your console like an amp. Lots of air flow, no stacking, and open sided shelves are the best. Glass shelves are also really good if possible.

[PimpHandStrong]

just asking

i know i can google it but im lazy

[PimpDaddy]

So the answer to your question is no.

[Antan]

It will be 3 or 4 years before the 360 OR PS3 for that matter reaches anywhere near their theoretical peak. One look at the history of the PS2 should be proof enough.

[La Chance]

bubble.

I dont know why some people wish so hard the 360 has reached its peak.

[beavis4play]

are both of you saying 360 hasn't reached it's peak on single-disk games or on multiple disc games? single disc they've went as far as they can go. but on multiple discs....maybe 360 can do more. but really, does anyone want to mess with 4+ disc games all the time?

[silverchode]

i think the ps2 means that the ps3 will still come out with amazing games during its last years, not sure you can use that for the 360.

[DJ]

-

[PimpHandStrong]

i love it

MS has brainwashed Zhuk so hard that he is saying Vina Penisata and Banjo are AAA graphic monsters

hahahahahaha

When Ninja Guiden looks better on the PS3 after more then a year b4 the 360 version i would have to say the 360 is maxed out!

I guess you will see it more after Gears of War comes out and ppl are talking about how fun 8ppl co-op and 60ppl online is with Fall of Man.

[jojo319]

Personally i think it's too soon to say space will become a huge issue. Methods of compression COULD get better. We just don't know yet. Look at how MP3's and AVI files revolutionized those formats. What's to say that dev's won't be able to make games SMALLER?

[thenickel]

Very true and great post. I guess time will tell and anything is possible.

[PimpHandStrong]

The PS2 maxed out at God of War and MGS3

thats not 8-9 years

in fact its more like 5-6

Edit add on
360 came out in Nov of 05

[Elginer]

when a PS3 developer spouts crazy sh*t about the system everyone goes YAY! But when a 360 dev dares utter anything even remotely that the system hasn't been maxed; everyone throws a sh*tfit. It's ok that PS3 devs utter hyperbole crap but not 360 devs? That's such bull.

[Funky Town_TX]

this is N4G. How dare this dev say anything but bad things for the 360.

[xtreampro]

actually i would like 360 and PS3 to compete against eachother cus it would be stupid if one has already been maxed out, so the competition between PS3 and the xbox360 is going to be here for awhile...but the wii can just piss off!

[jojo319]

Holy Crap....common sense? are you in the right forum?

[u got owned]

@ 18.1

lol. Yeah i know. For a moment there i thought i was in another forum, lol.

+ bubbles for both of you.

[Larry Fine]

Ps3 excl. titles are very nice looking. Bioshock and Gears look very good for the 360. After seeing KZ2 and Geow2, I really see how far ahead the PS3 can get, say 3 more years down the road, and it seems to me the 360 has made litle progress since geow1. Gears 2 looks mildly better after 2 yrs, it could still improve bfore release, but it doesnt wow me. The PS3 is bringing out games wth 60 player online and 8 man co-op that's very heavy and innovative I'm looking forward to see what they do in the future. I know M$ is going to give me great games and awesome online service theres no other system I play NCAA and Madden on. I just think in 3 yrs I'm not going to see anything innovative or edgy form the 360. I do beleive that it is reaching it's limit not yet but maybe next cycle. I hope I'm wrong but it' looking like it.

[La Chance]

is using the same engine as when they started making Gears almost 4 years ago.

4 years ago...

Gears 2 is probably the best looking game in 2008 and I think that alone is an achievement.

@DJ below : I guess youre talking about MGS4 since KZ2 isnt coming in 2008 , right ? In my opinion Gears 2 looks as good if not better than MGS4.
I would have taken your post seriously if you hadnt added the exagerated "nowhere near" .You cant even say that about Gears 2 and KZ2.KZ2 looks smoother than Gears 2 but not even close to 2x as good as Gears 2.

[DJ]

But it's nowhere near the 'best looking' game for 2008.

[PimpHandStrong]

i see ppl disagree with my point about PS2 maxing out with God of War and MGS3

please tell me what games came after these that looked better?

anyway yea

The 360 might be close to max but that doesnt mean the games are bad...

I said this to a friend months ago

If COD is what games will look like for the next 4 years i would be HAPPY with that!

Now MGS4 looks better then COD but COD still looks awesome!

All im saying is just because you think your close to max doesnt mean a REAL good dev still cant blow your mind

[KBDuB]

People disagree with you because you are an idiot, and are no worse, nor better than Zhuk. You're just as blind as he is.

But, I do agree with what you said in *this* post. I'd be happy if the games from now on looked like CoD. But, I don't care too much for graphics, I prefer game play, so graphics could look worse than CoD and I'd still be happy.

[Says you]

XBox 360 fans can never construct a word without failing in the end even though your not one Hiruma the agreement and disagreement system is broken XBox 360 fans are getting way to much agrees even though they can't even make sense in what they say but when the PS3 fans make sense they get more disagrees the agreement and disagreement system is getting abused for the wrong reasons.

[TheBatman_Fanatic]

360 doesnt have that many good games. The only game I would sit down and play on a 3fixme is gears, but not too long it will get RROD. Gears 2 look the same so no fun there. They dont have good games coming any time soon coming. PS3 has little big planet, killzone 2, resistance 2, FFvXIII, Heavy Rain to name a few.

[sabbath420]

what are you, about 10? You little kids need to find a new place to play, like the playground at school. You don't make any sense and when you try to chime in you have no facts just crap you hear from friends on the playground and crap you make up in your little baby brains. "360 doesn't have many good games"? How can you believe that? Dude the list goes on and on and on and on.

[i rule]

drones in a 360 thread. just leave it alone!! some people just need to grow up.

[SonySoldierEternaL]

it's the open zone idiot

what did you expect?

you bots always troll the PS3 news too

it goes both ways

[PimpDaddy]

I know that both Microsoft and Sony have loyal developers that will talk up thier console. I also know that with my own 2 eyes that I haven't seen a game on the 360 that couldn't be done on the PS3 and vice versa. These pissing contests are getting quite old.

The bottom line is the best games will be made by the best developers. It's why games like Gears, BioShock, Mass Effect, Uncharted, MGS4, and GT5P look significantly better than other games. Both consoles have thier strengths and weaknesses. But both will pretty much produce equally in the graphics area.

I can promise you that if gave a quality developer an unlimited budget they would find a way to maximize each consoles abilities.

[La Chance]

more people on n4g were as honest as you...

bubble up.

[thenickel]

Hey good post Pimpdaddy...Bubbles galore

[James64619]

The reason why they can't push it harder is because everyone xbox 360 would RROD on them and I own a xbox 360 I think Xbox 360 games are brilliant as they are I had Playstation 3 but got fed up with waiting for good games too come out on it.

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

Well I'm saying this because usually you don't hear Microsoft developers talking about limitations of the XBOX 360. With multiplatform games looking better than exclusives it's hard to believe them even if they're telling the truth. Lost Odyssey (XBOX 360) vs. Mass Effect (PC/XBOX 360), Froza Motorsport 2 (XBOX 360) vs. Burnout Paradise/Grid (PlayStation 3/XBOX 360) , or Ninja Gaiden II (XBOX 360) vs. Resident Evil 5/Assassin's Creed (PlayStation 3/XBOX 360).

I’m not talking about XBOX 360 vs. PlayStation 3 but XBOX 360 Exclusives vs. Multiplats. Even the Wii has better first part titles than the third party titles and we all know the PlayStation 3’s first party rules the third party. All I’m saying is that I’ll guess the Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts (XBOX 360) won’t look better than Price of Persia in the cell-shaded graphics department. I’ll also go and say that there is a 70%-80% chance an XBOX 360 owner is playing a multiplat over an exclusive. Halo 3 was beaten by Far Cry 2 with the graphics department from the looks of it with a none-linear game design (harder to achieve).

In conclusion Rare might be right about the XBOX 360 not reaching its peak performance but I highly dowt it will be a first party developer reaching it. Resident Evil 5 is looking to be the best looking game on that platform (XBOX 360) while Killzone 2, Wardevil: Unleash The Best Within, Heavy Rain: The Origami Killer, and M.A.G. (Massive Action Game) are set to be the best looking on the PlayStation 3. Even though M.A.G. was shown a CGI (Computer Graphics Imagery) trailer I think it will be one of the best, same with Heavy Rain.

[Overr8ed]

They dont think they know that the 360 has reach its limits

[jinn]

it can do alot more if xbox live was free

[q8warrior]

Zhuk 100% correct but does Sh*t Station fanboy learn from u man? i hope they do

[Grown Folks Talk]

When he posts as Zhuk, he sucks & is stupid. When he posts as Dark Sniper however, he is funny & smart. The only system in history that was ever maxed out was Pong. If that's the only game the system can play, I'd say that's as good as it's going to get.

[psgamer]

Gears 2 looks good but is miles behing mgs4 and uncharted.

[thenickel]

Now if only you could say that with a straight face lol. Sure those games look good in there own way but so does Gears2. Heck we haven't even seen Gears2 yet or at least not the final product. Why don't you evaporate into the open zone or something Fanboy.

Edit below: Please tell me what will feel missing? I just don't understand what your point is or proof is?

[ultimate920]

A bit behind...

By the Campaign I'm pretty sure it will do great, but when you're online and in the co-op, it will feel like something is missing.

[psgamer]

im saying that based on the fact that gears 2 will be using the same engine as the first. we just cant deny that mgs4 is the best looking game to be released and will remain that way for a long time. im not saying that gears 2 will look bad though, and i also dont think we'll see anything better graphically until kz2...

[mrbiggut1975]

This is the problem with this site and fanboys in general. How in the hell do you know this when the damn game isn't even out yet! Oh I'm sorry you've watched the 2 minutes of play time on G4 and that gives you all the info you need. Once the game comes out and you've played it for a while and you feel the same way give your opinion until then PLEASE don't post anything about GeoW2 not looking as good ad MGS4 or Uncharted.

[PoorDroids]

Considering Kameo (a 360 launch title) is still one of the greatest-looking games ever made, and certainly better-looking than any game on PS3, I believe him.

[Solid_Snake666]

what? never heard of that game....and stop putting viva pinata on the best xbox games list that is just ridiculous ..it like putting a PSN title out there

[KBDuB]

You haven't heard of Kameo? Well, that's no surprise..

Viva does look good, not the best, but good. And, is great fun.

[PoorDroids]

Never heard of Kameo? No wonder you dumb droids have no idea of 360's true power.

Any time I show-off my amazing HDTV, the first thing I do is bust-out Kameo, THEN Gears. But Kameo is always first. What does that tell you?

Exactly.

I'm not saying the game doesn't suck ass, it's just the graphics are f*cking insane.

[Enigma_2099]

what did you expect them to say?

[Funky Town_TX]

they usually spend the most time talking about the game. Now with other console dev it's always a tech demo. I will not name them because it is not allowed on N4G.

[ultimate920]

The 360 would have a RROD before it even reached it's limit. And it's already happening now...

[tk]

There is no way they would max out the XB360 this early in its life. I would be surprised if they did. Same of the PS3 and Wii. Only around year 4 will we start seeing the "gold" standard reached.

[mrbiggut1975]

....One of the best comments so far. I cant believe people actually think any of these systems are close to scratching the surface on what they can do.

[mistertwoturbo]

He's right, developers haven't been pushing the 360 to it's limits. So far, the only the developer truly doing that is Epic games with Gears of War. Gears of War 1 was amazing, truly defined HD graphics into what it is today and set the bar for other games like Uncharted to meet.

Gears of War 2, is looking to do that again. Although not quite as drastic as Gears 1, but still a step ahead of other 360 games.

The only problem is, other developers just aren't harnessing the 360 just as well. It's pretty known in every graphics arguement, people use Gears of War as the benchmark for 360's defense. And now, I see the trend all over again with Gears of War 2. Why is that?

And don't give me anything about "ohhh but these multiplatform games run better than the PS3" crap. I'm not even talking about 360 vs PS3. I'm talking about 360 vs 360 games here.

It's because the 360 is "easy to develope for" it seems like most developers are in a comfort zone and are staying in that comfort zone. They aren't trying to do anything to really utilize what's hidden in the 360's power. Like I said, Epic Games seems to be the only company doing that.

I'm sure id would have loved to do the same thing, but they are already hampered by the DVD problem.

So will we ever see the 360 reach it's potential? Maybe in Gears of War 3.

[Xi]

However it's not true at all, people also use bioshock and mass effect to a high degree.

Viva pinata is one of the best looking videogames this generation, but how many people have played or experienced it? Same goes with kameo.

However these games aren't as popular so people wouldn't tend to think of them right away. However if you look at some of the titles up and coming for the 360, alan wake, banjo kazooie, star ocean 4, you see the 360 is no slouch.

And conversly, people tend to name killzone 2 beyond any other title when it comes to the ps3's graphics yet gears 2 looks just as good. (now before anyone disagree's http://www.gametrailers.com... ).

And I personally feel that there are even better looking 3rd party titles, like rage and re5.

[mistertwoturbo]

It's not just popular, it just truly is utilizing the 360's hardware better than those games you listed.

Although of course I'm not saying those games are ugly PS1 looking games or anything like that. Infact Bioshock and Mass Effect are beautiful. But look how taxing on the hardware it is to run Mass Effect. And Bioshock isn't known for it's sheer technical power, but more for it's art design.

The point is, none of those games are making anybody go "Wow, OMG we've never ever seen graphics like that before!"

As it stands, the only 360 game that has done that again is Gears of War 2. My jaw literally dropped watching the in-game demo at E3's MS conference. Cliffy B. pulled off his promise of "Bigger, Better, and more Badass."

And lastly, the title for the 360 I'm most anxious to see is Alan Wake. Not just for the graphics, but the game's story is very intriguing.

[thehitman]

Because 360 doesnt have many exclusives coming from first party studios. Almost all of 360 games are multiplat or come from 3rd party studios where either the studio doesnt want to spend the resources on making a high quality game or they dont have time to or even both. EPIC is a studio who make and sell their engine so they can make good returns on the games they make with them so they can afford to make games like gears/ut3.

EDit: I meant to reply this to post above sry.

Btw idk if 360 reached its limit in terms of a technical stand point but in terms of the quality games its putting out its definitely showing it hit its peak last year.

[eagle21]

Hit the Road Jack,
And don't ya come back,
No more, No more, No more, No more

Hit the Road Jack
And don't ya back No Mooooooore! (what u say?)

LOL

[mfwahwah]

Since when has a console reached its full potential this early in its cycle anyway? This just seemed like a pointless article.

[Rob0g0rilla]

Let the games do the talking sir.

[byeGollum]

''we all know what you are all about ''

whats that suppose to mean, dont make me laugh. id rather you speak for yourself instead of using 'we' cause you dont know me bucko, coming out of no where saying you know what im about? lol. your attempt of trying to make me look like a 'fanboy' is lame as i said in my previous posts i dont believe in that crap, so you can use that term amongst other retards like you.

on topic - you misunderstood my comment, there was nothing wrong with rare biggin up 360 especially when they are owned by Microsoft, if a third party was bigging up 360 then its makes more sense, as a first party studio their product is meant to me outshining ppl like Epics Gears or something - what has Rare done that is worth talking about ? obviously if you make poo games there will be room for improvement - eat my opinion and swallow it cause theres nothing you can do about it .

[SkyGamer]

First off, juuken has done a lot better in being less bashy and more for facts than opinions. Far as lately monthly sales, yes X360 does not have a high profile game out this year EXCLUSIVELY like MGS4. Even if it didn't sell as well as its predecessors, it still was the killer app that the ps3 BADLY needed. You also got to account for blu-ray winning as that helped drive ps3 sales as well.

I do agree with power of green on the ps3's graphics card, memory (esp. bandwith) and bus line. The cell is REALLY powerful but only for certain purposes. They needed more time to develop the cell more properly and by MS jumping the gun forced sony, ibm and toshiba to speed up the process when it wasn't ready to. The cell is not a TRUE multi-core and it can only go as fast as the bus will allow it to. That is why the ps3 hasn't reached it's potential and it would be hard for it to because the bus should have been taken into account when they developed the system architecture. Far as the graphics card, rsx, it is nothing that special and I am trying my best not to bash. Nvidia screwed sony like they screwed MS with the first Xbox. The rsx is a stripped down 7800 sli with only 256mb ram. I do feel sorry for sony because the rsx will keep the ps3 from dropping in price as well. I guess that sony could drop the price but nvidia won't and they will lose more money. I mean an 8600 is better than the rsx and IT SUPPORTS DX10! Nvidia shouldn't be allowed to do that and that is the reason why ATI won the bid to make the gpu for the X360.

[VMAN_01]

I don't see anything better than Uncharted(graphically) on the 360. The main problem is that some of the exclusive games use the UE3 engine which can be kind of hard to tell which game is which. Mass Effect and Gears have same lighting style with shiny armor and even Too Human which dropped the engine but still looks distinctly like a UE3 engine powered game. The exclusive 360 games need to vary it up a little bit and stop with the space, aliens and shiny armor. The only game that looks interesting for me is Fable II but that will probably come out on PC.

[IPlayGames]

MS can make development kits for PS3 games and Sony can let MS use a BR drive.

It's a Win win. But we all know thats not gonna happen.

[celticlonewolf]

so much hate just because a dev made a comment which I thought was kind of obviously anyway(take a look at the ps2 and how it was producing it best looking games at the end of it cycle). As far as comparing which has the best looking games the 360 best looking game vs ps3 best looking games there isnt really THAT much of a diff and all comes down to which look better to you personal. As far as which machine is the most powerful(or better known as with fanboys my c@cks bigger than yours) we have had many devs pointing to the good sides of both consoles looks at id at quake con talking about the great storage for ps3 and also the 360 friendly devs kit but both a roughly the same in power although he did give a edge to the 360.
http://news.vgchartz.com/ne...

[SDS Gamerfiend]

The XBOX 360 AND PS3 has not even come close to reaching their respective limits just yet! Just remember a few of the last games for the PS2 and XBOX that looked like 1st gen XBOX 360 games! REMEMBER?!

[GiantEnemyCrab]

Of course it hasn't reached it's limit yet. The only people that say it has are fanboys who don't know development from a hole in the ground.

I think time and money are the biggest limitations with developing these days.

[badkolo]

I freaking told you SO, I freaking new it. The XBOX 360 is the worlds most powerful console, and a dev said it himself so lets not delusionalise ourselves.

oh god i hate these articles and useless blurps by devs, this is almost as bad as sony's E3 ps3 show where sony ate the arses of the devs to have then glorify the ps3 and how uber it is. from one dev ot the next in an attempt of god knows what..

[Raptors]

I've said it time and time again. the ps3 is the ps2 all over again. Powerful system however sony hyped it up to no end (4D, 120fps) and the fanboys ate it all up. Sorry guys, where the ps3 goes the 360 will be there right beside it.

And what i want to know is why doesn't ANYONE talk about ps3's loud *ss fan when a room gets too warm? Yes, louder than my 360. If you dont believe me feel free to youtube it. Or in MGS4 during certain scenes where every 30 - 50 secs it went to a loading screen? Why are these issues ALWAYS buried yet still RROD, 3fixme, and all the other crap is always brought up about the 360???

[devilhunterx]

awww someone is seeing red this week

[BubblesDAVERAGE]

Well we know the ps3 has not reached its limit...

[RenderMan]

He knows his stuff about graphics.

[EDF 2017]

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! KNOW THE TRUTH! DO THE RESEARCH, OUR FUTURE IS AT STAKE!

[VMAN_01]

They both have not reached there limits however who will reach its limit first? My vote goes to the 360 it seems like they don't really revolutionize with the graphics after Gears.

[MGRogue2017]

Theres plenty of power left in that 360 of yours.. Devs are only just starting to get the grips with it.

[AbdullaMTR]

just developer lie fanboy Believe them, what do u expect from 3core CPU with 1 GPU + 8.5gb dvd9 (500Gb BD :P)...........no need to talk just go make a better games

if u r talking about ps3 games the games are talking about them self's (Mgs4, uncharted, Gt5) and u want to see what ps3 can offer wait till Gow3 to come (there will be only chous).

[DevastationEve]

Both consoles have their theoretical limits and performance expectations. And each developer works their game load into those parameters. It doesn't matter that one dev says they can do something when another may not be getting the same results. For instance, not all games these days run at HD. In fact, quite a few run at sub-HD just so that they can retain the original graphics workload intended to be played out.

Obviously, each console has its own strengths and each developer has THEIR OWN strengths just the same. The combination of good hardware knowledge and OBJECTIVE game development is what has led to some of our finest games this gen. In 05, Rare showed us what they could do with a SINGLE uniform game engine running two completely different games on 360 hardware. Epic has shown us how they can get UE3 to run on two completely different consoles and run nearly toe-to-toe with the higher-end PC version.

I think the games speak for themselves. It really shouldn't be our concern how the machine performs. I think the software developers have a better understanding of what they can conjure up with what they're given. Fans like to pick a few catch phrases and use them as the honest to God FULL STORY! They'll construct ill conceived notions of superiority/inferiority with whatever it is they obviously don't fully understand. And if they say something like "Oh yeah man, I'm getting 60 fps 1080p, high def textures, and complex geometry all onscreen and I'm only using 30% of the system's power" then the numbers aren't adding up.

[jluth3]

it cost a lot less to develop for the xbox and if it multi platform it is probley going to make more money on the 360

[mrbiggut1975]

I'm sorry guys but I can't believe any of the systems out right now have reached their potential. The 360 has been out about 3 years and the PS3 about 2 and anybody who can honestly think that thats all the systems have left is an absolute fool. I can remember seeing God of War 2 and being blown away by the graphics on a system that old. I recently purchased Soul Calibur 4 for my 360 and wow that game is beautiful. I had the chance to play Uncharted at a buddy's house and it was awesome. These systems are relatively new and with all the technology out right now it's no way games are not going to look better and better. What's so funny to me is all these people in here arguing like fools over which system looks better. Just shut up and play the system you have. Sony fans are never going to give 360 it's props and 360 fans are never going to give Sony it's props. Just enjoy the best videogaming ever and hell if you can afford it buy all 3 systems.

[LiquifiedArt]

The only games that have "SOMETIMES" looks better are Multi-Platform (UNREAL ENGINE) Games. lol. I think even the most prudent fanboy's can attest the PS3 Developers write unique engines that easily trumph unreal. And also, that Unreal needed major changes (which took place during UT3 dev. for the ps3) to run at a similar pace.

Now is a different story. ps3 will continue to excel, as xbox begins to flounder. All the while xbox kids are pulling out 200$ worth of online fees for absolutely NO REASON. To each there own i guess. I rather teh Truely UNIQUE Exclusvies then a "wanna be PC" console known as teh xbox filled with Unreal Engine ports.

peace.

[dp_simbol]

I think 360 havent reach its limit, if you to think about it, the only thing that stopping 360 from reaching full potential is the limited disc space. imagine if xbox uses blu ray disc, what would games looks like...Halo 3 with gritty graphics like killzone 2