Xbox 360 Installs: Will they Become Mandatory?

Installs have been confirmed as coming to the Xbox360. Will this mean mandatory installs in the future? Some gamers see this as a move to just that.

[Silogon]

Nope, xbox 720 will be out by then. Well, if Sony allows them blu-ray access. <j/k

[Fox01]

No. Because of the Core and the Arcade users.

[tplarkin7]

Also, the DVD drive spins much faster than the 1x BluRay drive which is why many PS3 games require HD installs.

[crck]

But the installs better not be mandatory. Not at the prices MS charges for hard drive upgrades. I never plan to upgrade my 360 hard drive. Just delete demos after I try them and space for game saves, nothing more.

[GodsHand]

Blu-ray drive 1x = 36Mbps/s
Dvd-rom drive 1x = 1353 kb/s
Cd-rom drive 1x = 150 kb/s

Multiply that by the speed of the drive and you get what your read speeds.

With that said, just because a drive is slower does not mean it reads slower.

[Varsarus]

The PS3's blu-ray drive is only slightly faster than the 360's DVD drive, it does seem that DVD does read from the outside faster, but that rarely happens...

but to simplify this, the install's are because developers have not yet taken advantage of blu-ray technology, and they have been doing these install's ever since the PS3 came out, they should go away in the future.

[JsonHenry]

Better get used to installs. because the next generation of systems will surely have installs.

As a PC gamer through and through, I really don't understand why anyone makes a fuss about installs. They improve performance in game and help shorten load times.

[Capt CHAOS]

Average data transfers speeds of DVD on the 360 are faster than the bluray on the PS3, hence the required installs on the PS3 for some games.

[Monchichi025]

Of course not. This topic was just put up to get hits and start a flaimWar!

[meepmoopmeep]

well, it becomes mandatory, i feel sorry for Core/Arcade owners.

[gaffyh]

@Capt Chaos - How many times do people have to say this...DVDs read faster on the outside of the disc and slower on the inside of the disc. Blu-Ray has a constant read speed on all areas of the disc meaning overall it is faster than a DVD.

The reason PS3 games require installs is because the games are much larger in size (upto 25gb and above), whereas DVD9 is only 7.5GB (cos of 360s layer break limitation). Also the install is used either due to bad coding on the game (i.e. 360 -> PS3 ports), or to reduce load times in game (e.g. MGS4). Some games that have been coded very well don't need an install e.g. Burnout Paradise.

[GVON]

You have to look at a disk in thirds the outer. middle, inner.

The 360 uses duel layer DVD9, but are capped at 7.75gb, the reason is that the 360 reads the inner portion so slowly that it's not viable for games, it reads the outer layer a little bit faster than ps3, the middle is slower than ps3, and like I said the inner is to slow for gaming.

Another difference is that the blu-drive in the ps3 has a constant read speed over all the disk, as the ps3 was designed to use a constant data stream to feed the cell, this means that developers have a full 50gb to play with, and in the future could mean no installs as is the case with uncharted.

Now what I think msoft will do is now allow developers to use the inner portion and compress the hell out of it and then have that section of the disk install to the 360's hdd allowing developers a few extra gb of breathing room, I wouldn't be surprised in the next year or so to see a 3gb part of the hdd locked for this purpose with the possibility of installing before every game that needs it.

It's a big call to say that but one I think would benefit the developers for 360 letting them include more content to their games, because a few games have been restricted to the small disk space, most vocal about this was rockstar, who even hinted that GTA5 might not even be possible on 360 unless something was done about it, this could be that something.

I'm expecting plenty of disagrees but I'm just saying that it could be a good thing for the 360.

[Wildarmsjecht]

No disagrees here. That was well written and with valid points. Bubs+

[tplarkin7]

I was wrong about the 1x BluRay, but correct on the speed advantage of the 360. However, here's a quote from ars technica:

"Admittedly, Blu-Ray looks dicey from several non-capacity angles. Blu-Ray movies require a 1.5x Blu-Ray drive, or 54Mbits/second. Sony announced that PS3 uses a 2x BD drive, which is 72Mbits/second or 9MB/second. The Xbox 360 uses a 12x DVD, which should give it about 16MB/second. That is significantly faster for games and will result in shorter load times. And that 12x DVD drive should be a whole lot cheaper. (Note that the PS3 drive will do 8x DVD, and even that is faster than 2x BD.)"

http://arstechnica.com/jour...

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

This will most likely not happen, mandatory installs. Simply as Fox01 was saying, because of Core & Arcade users. Unless they start giving away free hard drives.

Fact is, developers have been fine with the 360 so far, so why need more space in the future? I think that larger disc space at this point is just an incremental change in graphics quality (cut scenes and larger textures). Do you really care that much? If developers really cared, they would optimize it further.

It's kind of the same issue as the PS3, not large enough graphics memory to hold all the textures (256MB) and developers figured a way around it. Developers just have to weigh the gain against the cost.

[GVON]

those speeds are correct but they are based on single layer dvd at x12, the actual x speed of the duel layer dvd 9 (used by all the games)is x8.

also remember that the read rate stated is at it's peak. Because it's not constant it fluctuates quite a bit, unlike the blu-drive which reads at the same speed no matter were it's getting data from.

I'm starting to sound like a fanboy so I will stop now but check this thread out for any issues you have with speeds from either machine.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

[AceLuby]

"The Xbox 360 uses a 12x DVD, which should give it about 16MB/second. "

SHOULD, SHOULD....

However, that theoretical max is never reached and a more accurate representation would be to take the average over the whole of the disc. When you do that BR is faster.

Only fanboys think 2x BR is ALWAYS slower than DVD9

[Malacath]

MS wouldn't allow installs to become mandatory for the simple fact that they would piss off casual gamers who own the arcade or the core console.

[solidt12]

F%^k casual Gamers. Go play Yatzee.

[Mc Fadge]

I could see them doing it in the future. They've abandoned users before, and I wouldn't put it past them to do it again. They've already abandoned the Core user with there approach on Digital Distribution, at least I think so. Not only that, but there backing of HD DVD, and then claiming they were backing DD all along :<

[tplarkin7]

Sony and Nintendo are the ones that "abandon" their fans.

[Kyur4ThePain]

Why have both your comments been about the other console makers?
Can't you address the problem/question at hand?

On Topic:
I wouldn't put it past them...touting the benefits of installs while make a pretty penny on the side from HDD sales.

[Mc Fadge]

I don't feel abandoned by Sony at all :/

I wonder who the other diagree-er is, I thought my comment made sense :/

[InMyOpinion]

I'd rather have Mandatory Suicide...by Slayer...on my soundtrack for Burnout Paradise =)

[chanto23]

with games getting better and more complex every year it seems logical they will force mandatory installs...

[bym051d]

Since the majority of 360 owners have far less than 20GB of space available and MS charges an arm and a leg for an HD upgrade, I sure hope they're not mandatory.

[wicked]

It's not game installs, it's game ripping to the hard drive, and it's optional.

[CAPT IRISH]

people seem to miss that

[solidsnakus]

this new update is gonna be so badass. being able to install the whole game. so no more disk spinning :D now that there implementing this. its only a matter of time till they allow you to purchase games online directly to download.. which might be a bad thing ..:( especially for me that i usually trade in my games after a month.

[kingme71]

You know what, a few months ago I might have said that MS would not require it to support their casual/arcade gamer, but as of late I can see MS spin it. "The arcade gamer is after a different XBox experience. If they want to enjoy some of these hardcore games that require an install, we give them the option of upgrading their system with a new hard drive or the option of purchasing a newer system. Then they can jump in and enjoy these titles.

[Mc Fadge]

Sounds straight from the horse's mouth! Very impressive O____O;

...I'm not joking ._.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

I must admit that does sound pretty good. I hope not.

[VampHuntD]

Kingme has nailed the exact point of the article (and gets the bubble for it). Right now the system is offering "disc copy" to a hard drive. There are already games that require a hard drive and more will come in the future. This is one step away from requiring an install (Or not requiring it, but without it the game becomes semi unplayable).

Did people forget that Sony still has PS2 support while MS cut off the original XBOX about a year after 360 launched? That screwed over ever recent xbox users there was, make no mistake that they would do it again by forcing core and arcade players (And 20gb users) to "Upgrade to the best Microsoft 360 experience".

It can happen and more than likely, when you consider developers and what not, it will happen whether we agree or not. The only part I'd be ticked about is having to upgrade my hard drive at the insane price MS charges for one of their drives.

[Shadow Flare]

It the way the future is heading. And once again, Micripofft fails for not including a hard drive as standard

[edhe]

... it's disc ripping to run off an image.

[Nitrowolf2]

i dont think it will be mandatory to install them but optional to.
with more and more games comeing out for both system and dev getting use to the PS3 i can see it happening if dev want to keep a game for both system and dont want to limit it that much. But it will be optional for 360. mybe there next console it will be mandatory

[BoneMagnus]

I upgraded to a 120G HD (got the Amazon deal a while back). I now have PLENTY of space.

Anything to turn down the blender sound of my 360. When I hear whirring like that, there had better be a frozen margarita involved!(extra salt please!)

[josh14399]

it will happen because some games require hdd already. i suppose its better than changing discs. why do 360 fanboys say go do your 5min install when all it takes is 5mins once and only once. but when im playing lost odyseey i have get up and change a disc. im sorry but installs are better than disc changing.

[Bladestar]

No... because they are NOT "installs" they are copies.. simply instead of running the game from disc.. you run them from the hard drive... on the PS3 installing games is a requirement to make the games playable... Games on the xbox 360 are playable and can be read ok from the DVD... this is an option.. and once this feature is out you will see the different... multiplatform games will load like 2-3 times faster than the PS3 games... which are installed.

[cow moolester]

They are not installs. Its copying the game over and is totally optional

[chewmystink]

SL DVD is 1.57MB/s > SL Blu-ray
DL DVD is 1.07MB/s < SL Blu-ray

Couldn't find any data for DL Blu-ray but as stated DL DVD is slower than Blu-ray.
Everyday there is some crap about the PS3 technical specs, give it up and stop feeling so threatened by the competition. Swear it's just one big circle with these old old very old articles.
Graphics card, memory , bluray drive so I guess next article bashing the ps3 will be the graphics card again hey.
For the record I want mandatory HD installs on my PS3, and on my 360 use your brains its for the better!