Spec analysis: Durango vs. Orbis

Digital Foundry on what the recent leaks mean and how the next-gen Xbox and PlayStation compare.

[DivineAssault]

orbis wins.. FATALITY!

[Walker]

With a huge per cent advantage!

[Dylila]

i cant wait to have a ps4 in my hands. just like every gen. playstation is about making proper games of high quality.

[TheGamerDood]

"Sony hardware has a surprisingly large 32 ROPs; 32 comes across as overkill, but it could be useful for addressing stereoscopic 1080p for instance, or even 4K"

1080p 60fps shouldn't be a problem then. Nice!

"we're told that the quality of the tools for PS4 has increased exponentially to the point where one highly experienced game-maker we spoke to rates the PlayStation Vita tools as the most impressive he's used"

3rd party devs have no excuses any longer, if you're unable to code for PS4 then it has nothing to do with the hardware and everything to do with your skill set.

[Stevo91]

I cant wait to have PS4 and Xbox 720 in my hands.. is what people should be saying

[Gamer1982]

DDR5 vs DDR3 for GPU memory is a MASSIVE advantage. People say oh I only use DDR3 on my PC but there graphics card most likely uses DDR5. The bandwith in DDR3 will be a massive bottleneck for devs in the next generation and will lead once again to games being downgraded for both consoles to look on par.. However the exclusives on PS3 will be off the chart thanks to having this bottleneck removed.

[JP1369]

Gamer-
If the PS4 really is significantly more powerful than the successor to the 360, I really think third-party games will reflect that. It seems the reason for this happening this gen was the relative ease of development on 360 compared to PS3. If PS4 is developer friendly, then it wouldn't be hard for them to use the extra power to add extra effects and if there's a PC version, maybe even higher resolution and framerate to achieve something closer to parity with that version.
Either way, I buy Playstations because of the exclusives the platform offers. Not having to worry about any Bayonetta or Skyrim fiascos is simply icing on the cake.

[InMyOpinion]

Comparing hardware that has only been speculated about. New low reached.

[blackbeld]

Ps4 will put 720xbox soon out of business.

PS4 is a killing machine!

[Ju]

@Gamer1982 DDR3 in Durango is only half the story, though. I have a hard time seeing 68GB/s + 100GB/s = 170GB/s...the ESRAM is a cache; and never can the peak bandwidth be bigger than the fastest entity in the system - no matter if it runs parallel or not. If you make one read with 68GB/s and another with 100GB/s you still read with a max of 100GB/s - well, but you can move a bit more data - but only if you have a proper data layout which really can benefit from such a "data move". And in that case, it would actually drop down to the slowest transfer (like 68[pool1] + x>68[pool2] needs to wait till you have all data from pool1 loaded...).

Well, all that said, though, MS tries to offset the limits of DDR3 with extra HW to remove dependencies from bandwidth. But it will require some SW tricks to utilize those. Funny, ain't it? Sony tried the same with the PS3. - One significant difference here, however, despite all customization, Orbis is still up to 50% faster...makes you think, huh? 360s EDRAM could level the SPU advantage, but wasn't faster...

MS priority seemed to be the >4GB, it seems while Sony looks like is biting the bullet and goes with what's available. It also looks to me, that AMD did the whole chipset for Sony (this is a SoC incl. CPU and GPU) while MS might have had more internal work done to get those customization in?

The fact is, the PS4 (supposedly) beats the Durango when 4GB are in your budget - by quite a bit. But if devs require more - there will be no other option but to add some streaming to the PS4, while Durango can use the bigger pool. I personally think that 4GB is the better route to go - if you build a console primarily.

I am quite surprised that this time MS went for the excessive customization while Sony streamlined their platform. I think MS had the wrong priorities (but that's just me). 8GB GDRAM might be feasible in some near future which will make all that customization quite obsolete.

And the other fact is, that if AMD packs all that onto a SoC (Sony), that the Orbis might actually be cheaper - with the offset that the 4GB GDRAM might clock at the same price as the 8GB DDR3.

No matter what. We'll see some freaking looking games come next gen. No matter what you'll choose.

[BitbyDeath]

Hitler learns that the PlayStation 4 is more powerful than the XBox 720

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[JC_Denton]

@Stevo91

Honestly, I have no desire whatsoever to get a 720. Microsoft outright said that it's going to be less of a game console, and more of a "media-hub", a path that the Xbox has been going down since its start. The only reason I bought an Xbox in the first place was because it was all my friends would ever played. Xbox Live is the reason why I started getting angry at video games. Hopefully the PS4 will continue chugging out new and innovative GAMING experiences, not new peripherals that allow us to play shitty games in cool ways.

[user3915800]

Huge percent advantage on what? As the article state, he dont know but speculate on results, the data its too closed together to activate a winner. Well, I know 1 thing for sure N4G is were most drolls come to and seems always 1 way. Comprehension level here its minimal, but to make it simple, they have same cpu, same amount of ram 2ddr3 = 1 ddr5, video cards or gpu are similar, so it all comes down to neat picking, faster does not meant carry more and thats were MS placed their eggs cause they want more functions and the reason they emplaced the 4 move engines. Either way, both consoles are going to rock, but PS4 its focused on raw power on gaming which will lack behind on media/entertainment models, while ms has the availability to resurface due to its flexinility. Either way none of this its oficial, what makes this article good, its how many of you already painted a picture of who will win based on rumours, lol, not to mention that most of you dont understand anything.

[NeverEnding1989]

@PimpMaster

I think you're mistaken. Microsoft has never said that the 720 would be more of a media hub. Sony on the other hand said these exact words yesterday:

"SCE official says that the PlayStation 4 will act as more of a home entertainment hub than what we've seen in the past"

http://n4g.com/news/1169923...

[JC_Denton]

@NeverEnding1989

Hm, well I could've sworn I heard that from at least 4 or 5 different sources. Oh well. I guess the reason why I won't be buying it will be for my primary reason: Xbox has about 4 exclusive games worth owning, none of which I have any interest in.

[Psn800]

Grow up .

[MaxXAttaxX]

That's what I want the most from a gaming console: High focus on gaming.

This is how I wish ALL consoles were like.

[nukeitall]

I think it is funny, because all of this is rumor, but then again this mirrors very much the Xbox 360 vs PS3 spec wars.

On paper, the PS3 has higher bandwidth and supposed superior computing power. In real life, all of that didn't matter because the bottle necks was too costly so any performance gain was really lost.

So the question here isn't what has more raw processing power by the numbers, but what as an overall package provides the most balanced system?

The Xbox 360 and PS3 generation, the bandwidth and latency wasn't as important as the amount of RAM. What is it next generation quantity of RAM or the speed of it?

For that, we won't know for a while after the console has been released.

That said, history has repeatedly shown that the highest spec machine almost always looses. It turns out, the content and features of said console is far more important....

[miyamoto]

Analysis from Nvidia engineer:

http://www.examiner.com/art...

[Gaming101]

I have a feeling this conversation is going nowhere on this forum - people are splitting hairs on hypothetical arguments.

The truth is, specs can be changed just like Ken K said. Once the opposition reveals their specs, all you need to do is figure out a way to match it somehow. Simple as that, and don't think either Sony or Microsoft is going to let the other get away with a massive advantage.

[fermcr]

Don't care... my console is better the yours.

*grabs popcorn*

FIGHT !!!!!

[sobekflakmonkey]

lol good stuff.

[Jakens]

I'll get the backwards compatible console first and the other one later. I do hope that one is more powerful than the other. All is fair.

[NastyLeftHook0]

yeah it seems the playstation 4 (orbis) is focused mostly on raw games power.

[NeoTribe]

Flawless victory!

[palaeomerus]

Based on rumors...

[greenpowerz]

Oh god here we go again. More pre launch sony propaganda just like before the PS3 launched.

-Ps3 is more powerful than a super computer.

-PS3 can do 1080p

-Ps3 can do 120 fps

On and on based on mis information and rumors.
Pro sony media and sony are going to allow the sony fanboys to smear the 720 like they did with the 360 and wii u

You can't trust Sony about specs even if the PS4 specs rumors were actually/truely leaked from Sony. Sony is known for telling lies to trick stupid fanboys from buying other consoles and to run negative smear campaigns against mostly MSFT.

I won't believe anything until MSFT releases the specs for 720 and pro unbiased developers reveal the specs of the PS4 without Sony influence. Also multi platform games will be the best proof not linear games with static game design and lack of features.

[JP1369]

Since when is Eurogamer pro-Sony? How is any of this Sony propaganda? Sounds like baseless speculation from someone whose entire argument claims to be against such things.
Remember, these specs are just rumors, there's no need for an Xbox fanboy like you to get all worked up just yet.
P.S. The proof of your lack of logic is contained neatly in one sentence: "I won't believe anything until MSFT releases the specs for 720 and pro unbiased developers reveal the specs of the PS4 without Sony influence."

So, you need a "pro, unbiased deveoper" (whose legitimacy I'm sure will be determined by how their words affect your agenda) yet you are more than willing to accept the word of Microsoft's marketing department. Sound logic there...

Edit: One thing Sony didn't lie about is the fact that they would continue providing an experience unavailable on any other console. The number of both blockbuster and unique exclusives delivered this gen delivers on that promise. A good number of them do so at a fidelity that is also without rival on anything other than PC.

[WhatchaTalkinBout]

bahahaha and your saying microsoft dont tell lies ??? your serious right ?? i think you best do i history lesson on microsoft, see what ya find lots of lies since the company was formed in 1975.. ever company tells white lies and bends the truth, but theres no way you can point the finger at sony when they all do the same !! plus sony never released no specs on any console nor did microsoft. its the media and or moles who make you think what you wanna hear....

[solar]

You forgot 4D.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

Conspiracy!

[darthseth24]

you mad bro?

[NastyLeftHook0]

or no linear sub hd games that are dark and have only flashlight features.

[Alcohog]

... http://oi42.tinypic.com/ev5...

[1nsaint]

Did i miss something? Since when and how do they know both consoles specs?
I've must have missed a big article or something?

Caause suddenly everyone is calling it durango and orbis (terrible names btw) and know specs and is saying it only plays new games and all kind of other details

I know its going on for about a week now but there did this info come from?

[ALLWRONG]

Should bookmark this page and come back when we get real specs. In the meantime sit back and watch the self destruction. Watching people fight and argue over made up forum specs and wishlist is funny as hell.

[GribbleGrunger]

I only understood the last sentence, but the rest sounded impressive :)

[Psn800]

We don't know yet what the spec's are just yet wait and see !

[OhMyGandhi]

Am I the only one that hates both of these names?

[brave27heart]

They're development names only. Like the vita was NGP or Nintendo's Dolphin. They'll have changed to official names by E3.

[Whymii]

Time to feed the fanboys. Here chook, chook, chook.

I don't play consoles, I play games. Love the games, not the console.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

So we're going by who wins rumors now? Ooookay

[dcbronco]

Would you expect any less from fanboys. No one knows the real potential of either machine and the fanboys are flying their flags high.

[deSSy2724]

Expect that this is still a rumor..... still 50:50 or in other words, you could be right, just dont rush too early.

[Divine]

sony will not dissapoint . . fin

[Tzuno]

Graphical engine wins. Brutality!!!

[Shaman]

Durango will get dominated, no doubt about it.

[SuperKing]

With a superior GPU and RAM, Sony's first party studios will do things only Durango can dream of.

[sobekflakmonkey]

I don't know why anybody disagreed with you on that, it's very true, look at the games Sony's first party studios pumped out with the PS3, it was incredible, I can only imagine what they can do with the PS4 once they get ever last possible bit of power of it.

[kayoss]

The problem developers will be facing is that they have to make multiplatform games meaning the games must be playable on all next gen consoles. 3rd party developers won't able to use the Levis to its full potential.

[Ju]

I think this is less a technical problem than a political. If MS puts a class in their certification again which requires to make game on par if they want to get Xbox certification than we won't.

But, both machines have some significant distinctions which will require developers to support each individually and in that process can max out each platform.

Durango will need explicit code to utilize ESRAM and Move Engines, the new DX "direct path" interface will make all developers write shader code tailored for exactly this platform (using HLSL) while LibGCM has a shorter path anyway but uses its own proprietary shader language (closer to GLSL - actually I don't even know, but it's more a mix of GLSL and CUDA AFAIK).

Theoretically Orbis GPU can handle more tris, not sure if we'll see that in num polys because this is heavily dependent on the arts pipeline (and pre-processing) and if the toolchains aren't flexible enough to do dynamic vertex reduction, then both platforms will probably look the same.

[DivineAssault]

very true.. imagine if PS3 (256mb)had an equal amount of ram as 360 (512mb) while maintaining the 256mb of vram.. It wouldve murdered em.. The limited ram inside PS3 is one of the main reasons a lot of multiplats struggle to run smoothly.. Sony knows this so im sure they wont make that mistake again

[StrongMan]

Yep.

[Chaostar]

"So what does this mean for game devs in real terms? Well, whichever way Microsoft tries to finesse it, the 32MB of ESRAM is a bit of a sticking plaster solution that is nowhere near as fast or efficient as the single unified pool of RAM available to Orbis."

That answers the question of which is better, 4gb of DDR5 or 8gb DDR3. They go on to say it's not a complete disaster for MS but at least we have a clear, definitive answer to stop arguments.

[nirwanda]

The other things to take into consideration is that the new xbox has 256bit bus from the ram and nearly everything in ram will be compressed and decompressed on the fly by the gpu and move engines, and GDR5 ram has higher latencey than DDR3 ram so the new xbox may have faster ram access.
It will probably better at open world games as it will all be precompressed from hdd/blu to ram.
Also loading times will be faster and AA will be less stressfull on the gpu

[JBSleek]

I don't particular care I just rather sit and watch the impending stupidity battle between these two fans. It i quite entertaining.

[IAMERROR]

*grabs popcorn*

This year is going to be very entertaining.

[Gimmemorebubblez]

I'm almost sure I heard a rumour that Sony is pushing 8gigs of DDR5 ram. If the Ps4 gets 8 gigs of DDR5 ram the differnce between the systems will be huge. Either way the system with the best exclusives and free online is the one I will buy.

[platformmaster918]

that would help future proof things a little. High end PC games only use 8gb so that would cover them for awhile considering consoles don't need nearly as much RAM. I would also be excited to see what they could do with multitasking if they had that much RAM.

[zebramocha]

@bran I've heard people say that half a gig of gddr5 is equivalent to 1 gig of gddr3,though if there was an additional 512 MB of gddr5 than 4GB of that would be for games instead of 3.5GB.

[Walker]

via EDGE report, not rumor:

We have confirmed with sources that recently leaked tech specs are accurate. Though Durango devkits offer 8GB of DDR3 RAM, compared to Orbis’s 4GB, Sony’s GDDR5 solution is capable of moving data at 176 gigabytes per second, which should eliminate the sort of bottlenecks that hampered PS3 game performance. Importantly, we’ve learned that Sony has told developers that it is pushing for the final PS4 RAM to match up to Microsoft’s 8GB."
http://www.edge-online.com/...

Sony is pushing 8 or at least 6 gigs of DDR5 ram in ps4/orbis.

[brave27heart]

Wonder what that will do to the price if they push for 8GB? Honestly Id rather shave £50 off the price on launch day and stick with the 4GB.

[strifeblade]

I dont know why people are playing the consoles out like there is a huge difference...

The author basically reminded everyone that differences between durango and orbis, are less pronounced when comparing 360/ps3. How big can the difference be if this is the case.

AKA the 2 new consoles are much closer in power than 360/ps3...

[mav805]

They said that architecturally they're very similar, but power-wise Orbis is clearly more capable. It's like saying a 200HP gasoline car is more closely related to a 300HP gasoline car than it is another 200HP electric car.

Orbis has 14 CU's for rendering, which alone beats the 720, but it has 4 more for physics, AI, etc. so it doesn't even dip into that rendering power.

[platformmaster918]

I don't really care what the specs are I'm buying Playstation whatever it's called (I predict 4) because they have most of my favorite devs in their first party. I just want to see what ND, SP, MM, GG, Insomniac (I expect Fuse to bomb and them to come back to Sony and continue my favorite franchise of all time Ratchet and Clank), SSM, Polyphony, Quantic Dream, and all the other first party studios will do. A lot of people bought MS because they were cheaper and out first and all they wanted to do was play COD and/or a sports game. This time will be VERY different especially if PS releases at the same price or lower because of Kinect on Xbox.

[Software_Lover]

So you bought a console because you say that your favorite devs are on that console but then say people bought xbox because it was cheap.

Maybe some people like Halo (bungie,343), or Forza (turn 10), or Gears (epic - not first party). But it doesn't matter if they aren't on your side of the argument.

Insomniac isn't 1st party anymore.

ON TOPIC: I cant wait to see either machine. The next gen will be interesting. I will eventually own both but not right off the bat.

[platformmaster918]

Exactly 3 franchises are good on xbox, and Forza and GT basically wash each other out. I won't go listing all the exclusives I happen to like because maybe you're not into any of them and do like Halo and Gears, but my point was the fact that the PS3 has outsold the 360 nearly every year both have been out (08 aside) despite being out later (less friends who pulled the trigger in the first year asking you to buy it) and being more expensive the entire gen (sometimes $200 more) is a bad sign for MS. Normally price and timing are two of the most important factors in a console's success, especially price. If they couldn't win being cheaper and earlier than what chance do they have on an even playing field?

[Software_Lover]

"If they couldn't win being cheaper and earlier than what chance do they have on an even playing field?"

Win what?

You guys/gals and this fanboy BS have got to stop it. For your own sakes.

Microsoft is profitable and have made a name for themselves in the gaming market. The xbox 360 thrashed the original xbox sales. Is that a win?The ps2 has sold a gazillion more units than the ps3 has in less time. Is that a win?

These companies dont get trophies when the ps4 and xbox 720 are released. The world keeps turning. G.E. lives with LG, whom lives with Sony, whom lives with Samsung, whom lives with Sanyo, etc etc. They all sell phones, washers and dryers, televisions, and other electronics. Profits are the only thing that matters not if they sell 20 more televisions than the other guy.

[MightyMatt101]

AND THE WINNER IS SONY! THEORETICALLY.... Because it's all a rumor and not fact... Still getting a PS4 at launch though love Sony's first party offerings.

[blackbirdi]

stop talking about this lets wait a little bit when the first games lunches and we have the real specifications of each console

[dubt72]

I love lunches!

[Ezz2013]

i love dinners more

[sak500]

@ezz2013

Lunches are better. One should have very light snack at night so that they dont end up weighing 200kg jabba the hut.

[Gratisfaction]

I really like both of their code names but Orbis will become more dominant than Durango, Mexico.

[PtRoLLFacE]

those specs are from February 2012 things can change withing one year!

[BrianG]

They can, but depending on the change, it could effect the entire production phase. Pushing back release a little further.

[matchu_peechu]

Althouh the PS4 may take the cake on the specs, Xbox will use their specs to their fullest potential. Sony doesn't know what to do with all of that computing power

[C0MPUT3R]

Yeah SCEWWS Studios, suck. /s
.
Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, & Guerrilla Games, have no idea how to get the best out of the hardware they work with.

[MasterCornholio]

"With Orbis, Sony is using a new variant of the LibGCM library, which has also been utilised in PS3 and Vita. This allows developers to more directly address the hardware, so elements of the AMD graphics hardware in particular can be accessed in a manner where there is no direct correlation in DirectX. You only need to look at games like God of War and Uncharted to see what Sony's approach to exploiting its hardware can produce: these remain state-of-the-art video games to this day, despite utilising graphics hardware directly derived from now-obsolete vintage 2005 Nvidia graphics hardware. Of course, with PS3 in particular, the GPU is only one part of the overall hardware offering, but the fact remains that developers are extracting performance from RSX that could only have been dreamed of when the console was designed."

Wrong read the article.

3rd party devs dont take advantage of the specs but first partys do which is basicly what they are saying. And if you read the article game development might be more difficult on the 720 than the PS4 due to its more complex architecture with the RAM and the ESRAM.

"Well, whichever way Microsoft tries to finesse it, the 32MB of ESRAM is a bit of a sticking plaster solution that is nowhere near as fast or efficient as the single unified pool of RAM available to Orbis."

[matchu_peechu]

I should have elaborated. I didn't mean in terms of game development as much as making it an "entertainment system" that they are just now trying to make the PS4. Xbox has been an entertainment system since they released the 360. It's UI is an experience in itself, and the playstation was just plain old boring. Apps are utilized better with microsoft because they know where to allocate their money. Sony is run very poorly

[delboy]

When was the last time that the most powerful console won system war?
Who ever appeals more to casuals and target wider audience will win, and it looks like xbox will be the ultimate multimedia box.

[zebramocha]

Well the ps3 overall sales our alot closer than xbox 1 to ps2,so I guess that the "most powerful" thing is kind of a myth.

[delboy]

You mean the myth of the cell power.

[arjman]

Dat der cell tech

[stuna1]

Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it can't happen! IMO it all come down to the best offerings for the best price!

IMO the WII was just a fluke of nature, meaning that it was a case of nintendo having all their ducks lined up in a row! and even then it wasn't perfect, because they lost out on major 3rd party support.

As far as multimedia goes I think that Sony and Microsoft for the most part will be neck & neck, with no true winner! That's already apparent in this generation, because just like microsoft have partnerships with certain entities in the media fields, sony owns their owns their companies in those same fields.

The line will be drawn when it comes to games, and how you interact with the online components of said games! IMO single players are on their way out.

[delboy]

I agree with you, it is more likely there will be no clear winner between ms&sony.
Ms is foremost a software company so it's more likely xbox will have more and overall better futures.

[Mithan]

All irrelevant, as we saw in this generation.

[dirthurts]

Since we're all just trolling and running rampant with rumors and speculation...
My pc is still faster, even after 3 years.

[ProjectVulcan]

Entirely possible. If Orbis is the fastest and these specs are accurate, a big if, then the consoles will lose to any good gaming PC and they aren't even here yet.

What new consoles will mean is a higher quality of games for PC and better ports closer to PC capabilities. Good news for PC all round.

[sak500]

Seriously? Good news for PC? If the consoles reach capability of matching current PC games then who will go and buy another 600$ vga card to upgrade every 2 years? And in last/current gen how many pc devs shifted focus on to consoles, so imagine if the new consoles allow devs to do whatever they desire and without fear of keeping in mind compatibility issues betweens millions of pcs and keeping it in mind the minimum specs they need to start off from the bat etc.

I had a fairly good pc self built a few years back, with Core i5 750 @ 3.8Ghz watercooled, 2 x 2GB DDR 3 @ 1700mhz, xfire 2x 5870, and recently had free replacement of my MS236 Asus 23" under warranty to Asus VG278H 27" 1080p 3D monitor. However i would not be upgrading the setup anytime soon but rather buy next gen consoles.

[ProjectVulcan]

Yes, good news for PC. Your own reply makes little sense.

"If the consoles reach capability of matching current PC game then who will go and buy another 600$ vga card to upgrade every 2 years?"

People who will want the hardware as devs push beyond console yet again....

You also said 'match', not beat. If they match....so what???

If the consoles arrive and will be slower than countless PC gamers setups, then all it does is improve the overall quality of graphics of multiplatform games, while the PC gamers can all still easily run those titles on their existing hardware.

The question should actually be who will rush out to buy a console at the start if their PC manages to already match and in many cases surpass new consoles on their games?

The consoles could provide a nice leap in game quality and a huge portion of PC gamers will not even have to upgrade...forcing developers and hardware manufacturers to give us a reason to do so gradually like they did with Crysis.

[dirthurts]

"The question should actually be who will rush out to buy a console at the start if their PC manages to already match and in many cases surpass new consoles on their games? "
This is exactly it. I was excited about consoles, but after seeing all the rumored specs...why would I buy anything slower/inferior to what I already have?
I'm not in the mood for another generic Gears, Uncharted, or Killzone.
I have a feeling I'll just be dropping a new video card into my rig and calling it a day.
Side note, I love upgrading my hardware. It's a privilege not a necessity.

[CommonSenseGamer]

Wow, so many are picking sides based on rumours. Remember all the PR crap both MS and Sony spinned prior to the release of the current gen consoles? Obviously not as so many are prepared to jump on the rumour train again.

Let's let the software do the talking. If it were all down to specs then Xbox would have beat out PS2 and Vita would be eclipsing the 3ds. Do you think people will care about specs this time next year after Tegra 4 devices hit the market or will they still prefer Vita for the games?

[Ninjamonkey82]

Its easy as this i want the console that focuses on gaming nothing else thats why i buy a "GAMES" console.

[JBSleek]

To call them game consoles is a disservice really. I mean if these were solely gaming consoles releasing in 2013 they would be a pretty epic fail. Most devices now serve multiple purposes because it makes sense.

Yes you want to play games of course but these are now multimedia devices that can also play games you can have both. I can't think of a device coming out in 2013 that is strictly one thing anymore.

If you want the system that only focuses on gaming I'm sorry but such a device doesn't exist.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

He means the *primary* focus is on gaming. That would be his ideal console.

[TruthBTold]

That is why I prefer Sony as they have always focused and catered to the hardcore gamer. They still have some options on the side for casual gamers but not as much as Nintendo has been in recent gens. The video game market is now divided in three segments; hardcore, casual and all around. Hardcore and casual make up the majority. XBox was hardcore until they saw Nintendo's succes with the Wii and chose to change their focus to bring more casual gamers to their product. The huge focus on Kinect games shows casual gaming is MS main focus now. The next XBox seems to expand on that with how much investment is being made on the next gen Kinect. They will still have 3rd party games for the hardcore but their true focus will be casuals. Kinda like Nintendo with the Wii. Sony seems to want better graphics, smooth processing and ease of development to get games out to the hard core while a significant amount of improvement is made on their next PS eye. These are all still speculations and we will need to see what is true and what isn't when these consoles and official specs are officially released.

[Skate-AK]

I hope it can do 1080p, 60fps, 3D with no visual sacrifices. I have been wanting to use the 3D on my TV more.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

The real xbox specs are on the leaked microsoft xbox 720 documents. As suspected these leaks from Vgleaks showing the next xbox less powerful than the 360? The pro Sony boys are going to be in for a rude awakening once the real specs are released and the Orbis really no better. It has been found that VGLeaks got there specs fon the Durango early SDK.. The final SDK hasnt been finalised while the Orbis Has.

[Software_Lover]

Does it really matter spec wise? You guys and your E-penises amaze me. My console has 4gb GDDR 5 biyotches!!!!!! My console has a 2000000teraflop gpu capable of producing mass effect fields with kinect voice commands!!!!!! My console has an updated playstation eye which can manipulate my surroundings and make me feel like im with an actual stripper!!

GTFOOH.

[greenpowerz]

Agreed.

There is going to be alot of minipulations and smearing with pro sony people trying to get revenge for this generation and to put sony back on top by spreading bs lies and rumors.

All this sony hype started in response to the leaked 720 docs showing it to be 6-8 times more powerful than 360. Suddenly anti msft people are using the spec/rumors that show less capability than the leaked 720 docs to give sony's ps4 a win lmao

[Evil_Ryu]

Microsoft didn't focus as much as sony on specs this time around because they know that is not the only thing that sells consoles. More importantly im excited too see what heights Xbox live & Kinect will be taken to.

[Minato-Namikaze]

For me as a gamer Kinect has no heights, it will be MS's downfall if they try to push that on the hardcore gamer

[strifeblade]

i think kinect can compliment hardcore games splendidly if used correctly along with the main cotroller. kinect should be used to enhance the eperience currently present with a normal controller.

In my oppinion, ps move turned out more of a failure than kinect in terms of hardcore because kinect can be used in tandem with xbox controller to enhance the experience while ps move must be used by its own and all people that play shooters prefer sony controller over move.

[Minato-Namikaze]

I would only buy a PS move if they somehow got it to work with RTS games in a good way. Kinect seems to pushing voice commands hard and IMO PSeye and kinect should be really no different in what they can offer gamers if that's the route the are gonna take

[Nitrox]

To piggyback on what Strifeblade said, "kinect should be used to enhance the eperience currently present with a normal controller. "

One awesome feature that could come about is glasses free 3Dtv by using head tracking...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

edit: skip to 2:00 on the video to see it in action

[josephayal]

Nothing can beat the wii u

[inFAMOUS_KRATOS]

this kinect stuff and ps eye hd, will most likely be choice to use in every game, i can't see sony enforcing developers to use it, i think both sony and microsoft will try use kinect and ps eye hd more for the apps on the system then actually games.

i just hope this time around they are both accurate in this motion controll or w.e war.

[sway_z]

Seems pretty pointless comparing rumours and speculation....

You will see that each of the platform holders will hold an advantage over each other in one area or another next gen..be that software, services, content or UI's.

I'm strictly a gamer, and media options are a distant second for what I want from a console.

Pointless spec comparisons or not...Sony will once again be my primary platform for gaming next gen, but lets not discount Microsoft's next console, because I will also purchase that if it is appealing enough.

[generalthadeape]

I have faith that both consoles will be great.

I'm particularly fond of my Xbox 360 & the amount of achievements I have amassed, is "respectable" at best.

I have owned the PS3 in the past, but only one person I knew, also played games on that system-- that made online gaming very lonely for me, at times.

Ultimately, I will choose which ever system that my family & friends have adopted.

Or, more likely, I will be an early (Next)box adopter and try to influence everyone else to buy the system that I have-- hahaha!

At least for me, I'm looking forward to seeing what the new Xbox experience has to offer me-- for some reason or other, Microsoft's offerings just work "better" for me.

[dalibor]

That is totally understandable. Same could be said had you put Sony instead of Microsoft. Everybody is different. Both of these systems will be great. Would you hate me if I said I'm going to get the next Sony system? I hope not

[generalthadeape]

Nope.

The choice is yours.

You want a Sony, then get a Sony.

You want a Microsoft, then get a Microsoft.

No hate from me at all.

Enjoy!

[ShadowGhost]

11 more days. The wait is killing me just thinking about the PS4.

[hennessey86]

They are both powerful machines and I will be getting both like I did this gen. I have no doubt however that N4G will still be awash with the same graphics comparisons next gen, some things never change.

[Software_Lover]

It's all for website hits an ad revenue. It's the same as the mainstream media. They would rather divide people than bring them together. There is money in war.

[dalibor]

"War. War never changes"
Nobody can guess what game this phrase was said. But it's totally accurate. Wars will still be going on after we are all dead. Whether it's console wars or real wars for that matter. And it's always profitable.

[sway_z]

Amazingly, just when the PS3 is really getting fired up and showing its muscle...along comes the next gen.

I am keeping my PS3 because it carries a fondness for me that I never got from Xbox 360.

There will come a time when we'll be saying goodbye to our PS3's (at least as our primary console) and welcoming PS4 into our homes.

To the PS3, thanks for the memories old friend :)

[stumpa]

i know what you mean except it was about the xbox 360 in my case even though it was unreliable etc i still love it owned both consoles from new but the 360 is the one i'd keep if i came to the crunch where as my mate would keep the ps3

[Minato-Namikaze]

Had the 360 been more reliable early on i may have gotten one. I just cant love reliable things. So that means i'll take wait and see approach with the 720

[Knight_Crawler]

Had the PS3 been priced at $450 at launch and had a bigger launch line up of games then I would have probably never bought a 360 and would never play awesome games like Lost Oddesy, Gears, Halo, Forza, Viva Pinata, Alan Wake and Phantom Dust.

[Jek_Porkins]

We have nothing but rumors to go on right now, but I'd suspect they are pretty comparable and nobody will have outright bragging rights. Fanboys will need something else to try and beat their chests about.

I'll just be happy for some new hardware, seems like it was the generation that wouldn't end, even though I am more than happy about all the great games, something inside of me wanted new hardware.

[stumpa]

even if they are powerful enough to run the death star i wont buy either of them if they block used games end of

[dalibor]

Random fact. It takes 11,488 Ps3's to run a death star. That's a lot of processing power damnit.

[stumpa]

cheers mate glad you cleared that up LMAO in that case if the ps4 is that powerful i will get one and take over the galaxy

[NewZealander]

blah blah blah here we go again which will be more powerful, let me just say I remember back when everyone said the ps3 was more powerful than the 360, it may of been but did it really matter in regards to 3rd party games? they looked the same on both consoles, some may of looked better on ps3 and some on the 360 but that came down to which console it was built on and then who got the ports, and as far as exclusives went well you would never know if it could be done on the other console as they were inhouse games never to be ported. let me just say what ever console has more power it won't matter cos 3rd party devs will make the games look the same on both consoles they don't put in extra work to make a game look better on one over the other, just because it has more power they just port them from one to the other. and like I said exclusives will never be known, so who cares they will both look the same in regards to graphics. but fan boys will be fan boys lol.

[TheKayle]

yesterday i posted this..but being on a blog was impossible to get on N4g

http://www.microsofttransla...

"But this can be applied in PS Orbis? Basically to implement virtual memory management it is not necessary that there are two levels of memory, taking the top sufficient storage capacity for the image (color, depth, and stencil) buffers and textures needed for the scene and there is a lower level. For PS Orbis the caches of the GPU do not have enough storage capacity for this and the GDDR5 is a single level of memory for all of the GPU."

Is the explanation of how the memory work in the durango..and how the DME's resolve the bandwith problems...and why is impossible to calculate the "real" perfomance ...in flops of the durango...

Him also explain how the durango is amegatexturing/megamesh oriented platform

we seen this technology by lionhead and john carmak used in a demo in late 2010 and in rage from ID5

Megameshes

http://youtu.be/M04SMNkTx9E

MegaTextures

Virtual Texture ( implementation of megatexture tech)
http://youtu.be/p49vOX-_LyU

the dme's not only solve a problem that dev have in this last decade....our gpu need to have enourmous bandwith to keep the gpu in process..but at the same time our best ram (gddr5 by now) suffer of a lots of latency (300 cycles vs 20/60 cycles of a slower esram) and also...cost a lots of $

in this way u can have a big pool of slower ram and little faster pool of ram that work together with some dma inside the dme's that move everything ALSO while the gpu/cpu r working....

The orbis is more like a middle lvl pc ..with offtheshelf parts....

there r good and bad side in this....the goods .. being a console it dosnt work up a big OS and probably games and everything else is developed more on the "metal" while on pc they need to keep everything runnin on a heavy OS..and under the control of millions of API
The bads..is not being a custom hardware ...suffer of all the problems that devs and tech guys already know.......high latency, hard if not impossible to reach maximum peak perfomance coz of stalls phases of the cpu/gpu, and of course the problem of have just 3. something of ram dedicated to games (one part is dedicated to the os,apps...security and stuff)

on the other side we have durango with 8 giga of dd3 + esram

that try to solve that kind of problems...

IHMO think they will hit the same perfomance and in the long run the bigger pool of ram of the durango will hit the 1 place

[Ju]

This is a quite interesting assessment. But all it actually says is how to get DDR3 up to GDR5 speed without spending to much money. It still won't beat GDR5.

The latency will probably be a problem with the GDR5 if they run CPU heavy (scalar) code; but then, if these rumors are true, Orbis has 4 additional compute units - basically those will run physics a magnitude faster than the CPU without taxing (the already faster) remaining 14 CUs. And then, you still have the same amount of CPUs left.

What is a bit of a mystery here is, that while the CPU cores are jaguar cores it looks like those have been customized quite a bit. Giving Sony's history with CELL and IBM, an yet again I see a reversal with MS here - they customized the SIMD units (probably even removed some, but optimized the others for gaming) - exactly what MS did with the VMX units in the Xenos.

And since this is a SoC and probably done by AMD in house, they really picked the best what they could based on their APU design and built something quite impressive. There was no mention in the Durango specs if this also applies to MS, or they used a stock APU and customized it in other areas (EDRAM, Move Engines - which are not part of any APU design).

[theWB27]

It's crazy gamers actually pat themselves on the back cause they pick a console. Last time I checked gamers game. I understand getting the console you want..but I dont understand wanting the other to fail so much. You'd think these people had a personal, life altering stake in the company. There were only a handful of exclusives that Sony has that TRULY were worth having the PS3 solely for, that really outshined what the 360 could do as a console. Now Sony fans are jumping up and down because of RUMORS like they are winning the lotto or something. Getting both...hopefully a WiU eventually too.

[rhcpfan]

Well personally, I lost all respect for Sony when they got rid of the show-runner (Dan Harmon) of "Community", because they wanted to make the show more appealing to the general public. It's truly sad since it was one of the best comedies ever made and it'll never be the same without him.

[wishingW3L]

Orbis, when I'll be able to pre-order you? Can't wait!

[SOM3ROiD]

WHAT GODDAMN SPECS?

The consoles haven't even been announced yet, my God.. give it a rest a couple of days, will'ya?

[ATi_Elite]

4GB DDR5 vs 8GB DDR3

Your not gonna notice the friggin difference cause Devs will program differently for the 4GB DDR5 than they will for the 8GB DDR3.

And as a PC Gamer who reads Benchmarks ALL the time, I can tell you that the difference in speed of GDDR5 vs. DDR3 will only be noticeable in certain task. Graphics, sure GDDR5 kills but start multi-tasking and inserting calculations and now DDR3 becomes stronger.

Now Granted you will have some LAZY DEV program for the 8gb DDr3 and then just dump it on 4gb DDr5 and cause MASS HYSTERIA when the performance sucks on one console vs. the other.

Actually I would rather have 8GB DDR3 which would allow me more room to multi-task. I'm sure MS is thinking the same way because they do have that Kinect thing they wanna keep promoting!

Don't get me wrong GDDR5 is fast but I rather have more Car lanes (8GB DDr3) than a few fast ones (4GB DDr5) when dealing with a Console and it's ONE pool of Memory!

PC = CPU has it's own dedicated DDr3 Ram and then the GPU has it's own dedicated GDDr5 Ram for Raw power and Speed.

Console = the CPU/GPU are sharing one Pool of Ram for Watt and price efficiency.

Now the big news in the article was that the PS4 seems to have more "compute Units" on it's GPU thus meaning the PS4 should have SUPERIOR GRAPHICS or A.I. or Physics over X720.

Looking forward to seeing what the final Specs are gonna be but so far they look pretty identical in capabilities as they go about it in different ways.

Also remember folks Third Party Devs like to program for the weaker system and then just port to the stronger ones. MS is happy with this as they enjoy being a Multiplat Beast while Sony flexes it's muscles with Exclusives.

[Clarence]

The real question is will 3rd party developers utilize the power of the PS4 or will they only make the games as powerful as the the next Xbox.

Developers won't want to upset the customers. So they will make the multiplate games identical. Which is shame. Not saying the next Xbox won't be powerful but if the PS4 is more powerful why not show it with the multiplate games, along with exclusives.

[ajax17]

Durango Vs Orbis does sound flashier than PS4 and Xbox 720..

[BOOMBABY]

so many fanboys

[Dms2012]

And only one pair of hands to throttle them.

[AO1JMM]

I'm a gamer so I will eventually have both systems. Consoles wars are lame, and the fanboys are hilariously ignorant.

[Sanquine90]

I dont care about the specs. I am going to buy the ps4 and that's it! I want to play their exclusives! Next box i also going to buy but first xbox ( Just a habbit >ps1,ps2,psp,ps3,psvita)

[Trekster_Gamer]

I think it will come down to the price more than how many polygons they can push. If the is a huge price difference that will make the biggest difference.

[steve30x]

People are still taking the specs as gospel even though nobody but microsoft and sony know. I am enjoying the show watching the fans though.

[JeepGamer]

As it was with the PS2 and XB, and it is with the PS3 and 360 there will be an inconsequential difference that will ultimately mean nothing in the larger scheme of things.

We will endure another generation of multi console releases with people nit picking over details or one of them being a poorly done version vs the other

[kupomogli]

Those cats are cute. The header picture on Eurogamer's article.

[jlemdon]

Some tech experts please inform me how just because the PS4 will have more compute units 12(720) to 18(PS4), but the ram is less (although faster) still don't mean anything.

[GraveLord]

PS4 has a pretty big advantage in terms of bandwidth and graphics. Both are very important factors for you know.....games. I know which console I'm getting.

[Morgue]

Really interesting article and probably the best one I've read on here in a long time.

Will I buy the new Xbox, sure. Will the games be good, probably so but I don't care about the " presumed " media functions like Kinect streaming, apps or having some Ktel all in one system. Honestly. The next Xbox needs to deliver on games because my 360 is basically being used for Netflix right now. Yeah the PS3 has media aspects about it as well but with Sony it's always been about games and offering a unique experience based on what sort of gamer you are and what genre you play.

I can't imagine what it would be like as a gamer if Sony never came out with the PS1 and I know I'm gonna get disagrees because this is a hypothetical statement but. I don't think Microsoft would've entered the console business had it not been for the dominance that Sony wrought. And we could still be sitting here playing our Nintendo's, Sega CD, 3DO, Neo Geo or playing PC games.

[horndog]

Wasnt the ps3 supposed to be10x more powerfull then the 360 when it wsd first revealed?? The actual results tell a different story then what was on paper. Some people never learn. Teh cellz chip and teh blurayz with teh emotion engines was supposed to be superior to the 360. So much for all that $@*!. Lol I see more good times coming at the expense of pstards.

[TheKayle]

i wasnt expecting that most of u would take the time to read my first post in the first page....

i wasnt expecting the that most of u understand enough about tech to understand what that guy was explain
but...

if u r like this pls have at least the conscius to dont put air out of your mouth showing the most big ignorance ever

the only things that im reading here is "xbox=sandwich toaster....ps4=the beast that my mum would cheat my dad with"..all without any ..and im SAYING any freaking hw base to talk about ....

r u understanding that sony could not do r&d cause money problem and is taking off the shelf part to build ps4? (and this not mean ..its a bad machine!)...r u understanding how much latency will have that gddr5? r u understanding that the 1.8 tf that some site r showing is just a THEORICAL PEAK...that is barely impossible to reach with an off the shelf architecture?!! r u understanding that zlib dac in the ps4 dosnt work like the dme? r understaning that with 512 mb reserved u will get JUST 3.5 gb ram for games...and on other site u will have JUST AND ONLY a 512mb OS? r u understanding that isnt 18cu for graphics but 14+4 (where 4 do physic and have MINOR improvement for rendering)..r u understanding that bandwith created is needed by that hw design to solve the stall gpu problem? u understand that the xbox 360 had a bandwith of 256 GB/s to the edram and the orbis have 176GB/s to the gddr so as u see if we look JUST and only at the bandwith without looking at the entire picture it dosnt mean nothing? no ..i think u dont...

the two platform have + or - the same perfomance ..while durango seem wanna resolve a BIG decade GPU problem.that could put him ahead.and IHMO...it will do it...and plus of this he got 8 gb of ram and a monster audio chip

go to read this (im being good posting it again)

and show less ignorance PLS

http://www.microsofttransla...

megameshes
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

megatexture (virtual texture)
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

i have no more post ..for this bubble system...sorry

andsorry for my bad english as always

pss.

thnx to JU (the user) he at least give a reasonable answer on my first post..with some logical sense......we need more ppl like u on n4g not this freakn trolls

[-Falaut-]

Your posts are hard to read. I'm not trying to be snide or rude, just saying.

Cheers.

[HKB]

So wrong...

So biased...

Are you a MS employee ?

[Lvl_up_gamer]

What an intelligent counter argument.....

Are you a Sony employee?

[wiz7191]

Idc which one is better Ill be getting them both just like I have both a PS3 & a 360. People are killing me with this fanboy crap get a life like seriously. I laugh at all these comments saying durango is better or orbis is better! LOL SMH

[Many-hat5]

Here's some news guys. There hasn't been a console yet, that's have lived up to it's pre-release hype.Seems sensible to hold on just that little bit longer, before we
get too carried away with unconfirmed specs and performance assessments.

[Ulf]

I just have one thing to say about this article:

Eurogamer is jumping the gun.

Don't take all rumors at face value... even if they are mostly true. The last part, the part that you missed, or the part that wasn't true, will bite you.

[isarai]

I think everyone seems to be missing the part where these specs are based on rumors

[Max-Zorin]

I'm gonna get both systems and laugh at the pointless arguing between games on Youtube and this site.

[JustinWeinblatt]

Is this seriously a spec analysis based on consoles that haven't been released yet and assuming absolutely no specialization?

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[TemplarDante]

This gen I bought three 360s... and a PS3.
Next gen, Im with Sony alone.
F Steve Ballmers madness at msft. Their hardware (tablets,phones) are impractical (3hr batt life in tablet) etc.
Its obvious, msft still doesnt know hardware.
Next gen, Sony, kick ass and take names!
I can already imagine how sexy that PS4 beast is!
Look at the Xperia Z, Xperia Tablet, the new blu-ray players. So sexy. The PS4 will be following the same design philosophy.

[level 360]

I'll be getting both consoles same like before no question about it.

But have to say in terms of actual games and this is *my speculated opinion - I think it's the PS4 which will have the better games title line-up.

I'm sure Microsoft/XBox is going to stick with the same formula on games and will somehow - as I said this is just my own theory - lure more buyers by offering a lot of *non-gaming bells and whistles features.

[JeffGUNZ]

Are people here really fighting over which console is better solely off of rumors? Are you kidding me? I hate this site.

[RE_L_MAYER]

even if ps4 is more powerfull and I will never get xbox 720 im sure it will be a great console and some of the exclusives I liked on it and it will have more exclusives in the future,i was always a playstation fan but hope that people will enjoy xbox as much and have a great experience with it

[SpadeX]

I'm not sure about the "PS4 exclusives". As the cloud gaming will let all PS4 games be playable on certain devices like smartphones and tablets, does that still make the games exclusive or what?

[dcbronco]

Many Sony fans have always argued that a game played on another device wasn't exclusive.

[marcofdeath]

31 minutes ago

1. MS WILL NOT USE A YEAR OLD GPU. Just like Xenos GPU was not.

http://www.techpowerup.com/...

2. The CPU is not a eight-core AMD. IT CAN NOT DO "TWO INSTRUCTIONS PER CLOCK"
fROM http://www.vgleaks.com/worl...

3.BY THE WAY THE LACK OF DETELS "OBEN" CHIP WERE? THE FACT THAT THEIRS NOT ONE CHIP BREAK DOWN. OR the FACT THAT THIS IS A OLD prototype KIT.
The new prototype is Kryptos.

4. With the 360 we had a detaled look at each chip right down to where they are in the system .

Come on E3.

[ziggurcat]

you can't really compare specs that aren't even confirmed.

garbage article is garbage.

[dcbronco]

So true. The article covers the parts and goes into a lot of details. But it misses important information. The author acknowledges that Microsoft has secret sauce but acts as if he understands the implications of it. I'm not sure that he does or if anyone does.

First of all, he doesn't seem to take into account how many chip engineers(several hundred) Microsoft has and that they have been doing a ton of their own work for a few years now. The CGPU in the 360 S was a Microsoft design(at least most believe), not an AMD design. It was based on Microsoft work started back in 2004 or '05. And it was successful enough to make the same parts more powerful than they were separately(it had to be dumbed down for consistency).

I believe that 8GBs of RAM and the Move Engines are about HSA, not slow RAM. Even if they are using the same general parts, HSA enabled parts should make one more powerful than the other. Many experts believe full HSA will increase computing power 10 times. That was the goal of the Cell and Larrabee. Also the AMD APUs. But no one has gotten it right yet.

MS did a very good job it seems with their CGPU design because the same parts were more efficient and created a better chip.

http://arstechnica.com/gami...

I believe the Move Engines are about pushing that advantage even further. So I think MS was actually making a design that should prove more powerful, but still be cheaper to make. This way, they can pressure Sony on price and power at the same time.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Rumor vs rumor. ...I say the rumor wins

[givemeshelter]

I love this site! Look how many are claiming these specifications are "fact"
when nothing has been comfirmed and this is all rumor LOL
Only on N4G

[RealtorMDandDC]

Microsoft is slowly trying to inch their way into the world's living room as a media device. The original Xbox was a pure gaming machine, 360 was a pure gaming machine in the beginning but is more of an media device today than a game machine...I welcome Microsoft approach because I am a cord cutter and I home their media intensive approach will make the cable companies change their tune.

I've always had this argument, Sony is an entertainment company. They Produce Movies and Produce Records. Sony knows that gaming is the holy grail of entertainment.

Think about it, in 15-30 years gaming will be the number one form of entertainment from portable mobile gaming to more advance aspect of being part/or in the game itself. This link provides a good example: https://www.youtube.com/wat...

I'm excited about Sony's upcoming console, the PS3 has providing me some breathtaking gaming experiences and I can't wait to see what Sony first party studios are planning to bring to the table.

[-IronMan-]

Playstation da best. No thanks Xbox i wont be buying your console.

[mr_kubrick]

Xbox da best. No thanks PS4 i wont be buying your console.

[brave27heart]

Firstly I think the rumoured specs are probably pretty accurate. We're far enough into development that the leaks are probably true.

Secondly, both Sony and MS are taking different approaches to memory but will end up with pretty similar systems. The differences on 3rd party games will be as minor as they have been this generation and the exclusives wont look too far apart because the first party devs will take the approach that best suits the consoles architecture. From the sounds of it it would seem like a role reversal from this generation, Sonys system seems the simpler one to develop for, but I expect devs to cope just fine with MS's offering. As a PS3 owner there have been very very few games Ive played that felt compromised because of its "difficult to program for" layout. I dont think it'll be an issue for MS.

At the end of the day the "power" difference will be like splitting hairs. The real decider will be the games. For me thats always been Sonys strongest card in the deck so thats where my money will be going. If I was in the MS camp Id be more concerned about the perception of being an entertainment hub than a games console. Theres precious little love for Kinect or going after the casual gamer and if they push things like apps above quality gaming they may end up losing some of the hardcore to Sony.

[Karum]

Processing power won't be an issue in terms of CPU and GPU I suspect. As long as both add plenty of memory for developers to work with that's the main big thing right there.

Both these machines will be powerful and run some really nice graphics and games, for me it's going to come down to who gives me more exclusive games I'm interested in.

Traditionally that has been Playstation but at some point I'll end up owning both I suspect. Good times!

[Abet117]

This sounds a lot like last gen.....Ps3 is better all around....xbox360 still sells better....wii kicks thier ass despite being a sack of shit.....this proves nothing. Sales are what drive gaming markets not trolls and fanboys. By the way I own a xbox360,wii,and playstiation vita so NO im not a fanboy. i like video games! not Brand of video games.