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Kayant  +   146d ago
Mistermediax redeemed /s

To be expect tbh. They will most likely talk about the parallels they learnt working with XB1 in transferring that to PC (in terms of the low-level optimizations)
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MorePowerOfGreen  +   146d ago
If you say so CBOAT. Dat spin and downplaying. https://twitter.com/tomwarr...
http://www.gamespot.com/art...

I remember PS3's early performance just after launch and I'll remember XB1's.

These new tools will make Tiled Resources in Direct3D 11+(Directx 11.2, look like warm ups.
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4Sh0w  +   146d ago
Lukas I'm actually confused myself because from my understanding DirectX 12, is a benefit for pc more so than a console, sort of like Mantle is a tool to help PC for lower level programming like consoles already do, but I could be waaay off so I'd appreciate if anybody has a "plain english" explanation.

Edit, I meant to reply to Lukas below.
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Kayant  +   146d ago | Well said
I do say so misterx insider....

Fiction and delusion works in wonderful ways....

Am sure MS will unlock the 128MB ESram, the second stacked chip thus by making the Xbox have an *innovative memory system* making it HSA compliant and with console level optimization with stereo drivers XB1 will be able to produce 10-12TF* depending on situation.

/s

@Lukas_Japonicus

Same here but from what I understand it means that XB1 could share the API features that DX12 will have.

On a side note I expect a new blog from misterx by tomorrow.

Also looool at me being CBOAT.
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DoesUs  +   146d ago | Well said
"I remember PS3's early performance just after launch and I'll remember XB1's"

Great, but the PS3 wasn't 40/45% down on power.

"These new tools will make Tiled Resources in Direct3D 11+(Directx 11.2, look like warm ups."

No, they won't. Sorry to burst you little bubble there.

Tools/tools/tools/SDK/SDK, what happened to all the cloud power and hidden super duper tripple layered design?

Your dumbness on tech talk knows no bounds.
rdgneoz3  +   146d ago
"I remember PS3's early performance just after launch and I'll remember XB1's."

Sales or hardware performance? With sales, it released a year later than the 360 with a more expensive product. MS took the lead though Sony caught up eventually. Hardware, it had a powerful system that was difficult to program for till people got use to it.

Atm, you have xbone being a less powerful system that's more expensive...
vulcanproject  +   146d ago
Sigh. It'll only be a few tool updates for Xbox One at best. The real significance is for PC gaming and always has been.

DirectX 12 isn't going to bring some sort of revolution in performance for Xbox One. It'll potentially add or improve some features, but that's what EVERY console EVER has done with their toolset and API, continuous, gradual evolution.

DX12 is much more important and significant for PC, because it should enable much lower level hardware access, closer to the kind of access a console already offers.

It'll effectively make Mantle pretty much DOA just because of how slow AMD have been.

For anyone hoping that DirectX 12 is going to some sort of miraculous performance boost across the board for Xbox One they are going to be disappointed.
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Leo Atrox  +   146d ago
DoesUs: "Tools/tools/tools/SDK/SD K, what happened to all the cloud power and hidden super duper tripple layered design?"

I don't know what "super duper tripple [sic] layered design" is, but the much ballyhooed "cloud power" is supposedly coming with Watch_Dogs. It ought to be interesting to see the difference between the PS4 and Xbox One versions. The PS4 has more power and better graphics; but, according to Ubisoft, all that dust blowing and trees swaying stuff in the early trailers is going to be powered by Azure servers in the Xbox One version of the game. I'm eager to see if this cloud thing makes any difference between the two noticeable.
GameNameFame  +   146d ago
LOL. OpenGL and Mantle is far better suited for console.

Direct X12 is better for PC where you need optimization Direct X12 lacks.

Btw, this does not unlock extra power. It still remains about 50 percent gap of GPU.
#1.1.7 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(25) | Disagree(44) | Report
malokevi   146d ago | Not a reply | show
darthv72  +   146d ago
In other words...the new moniker will be:
XB1DX12
GameNameFame  +   146d ago
Btw, what really is the point of this if Xbox One is not strong enough to handle features on DX11.

and btw, all DX11 features is literally on OpenGL.

Check this out
https://www.opengl.org/wiki...

Also, real dev who pushes hardware to limit doesnt even use this. They "code to metal" on PS4 and Xbox One to push it to limits.

Then, all it really matters is how much power you got? and Xbox One has far less.
pyramidshead  +   146d ago
Apparently devs don't even use DX11.2 yet in its entirety if at all so expect games to be using DX12 in about 4 years or more, for console anyway.

Also, that awkward moment when the Day Z dev could be talking about anything lol.
k3rn3ll  +   146d ago
I don't think many people are expecting improvements across the board. If u know tech at all you won't.

But either way any improvements are a good thing. I mean 2 days ago everyone was saying the xbox wouldn't benefit at all because the systems were already done and out before dx12 was finished. So all the people that believed that are wrong.
360ICE  +   146d ago
@4sh0w

You're right. DirectX uses Direct Input among other things to help programmers deal with different types of drivers and computers. It could probably still be helpful for consoles, though. Maybe save console devs some hardcoding.

We'll see at GDC.
Prime157  +   145d ago
I don't know, I expect something like "d3d vs ogl" campaign all over again.

Which means piling money on the PR and "ability" (ability as if it's better) while having very similar, while less returns as it's competitions.

Yay!
DOMination-  +   145d ago
So much downplaying here at n4PSg. This news isn't going to change the world but extra supported features are always welcome and if it helps xb1 thats a good thing even for Sony - because better toolsets for xb1 means better multiplats and that should mean the ps4 version won't need to be as badly "gimped" (if that happens)

This should be good news for everyone
andibandit  +   145d ago
Yeah, N4G is the only place where good news is bad news
Gamer1982  +   145d ago
So what if its coming to Xbox One? IT means nothing really as devs will take a few years to get used to it just like with DX11 meaning if they do use it games won't look as good as DX11. Also you gotta understand how these things work to understand how well they will help a console and the fact is it wont help the xbox one at all at least not from a graphical standpoint. It may make games look better but it will take a bigger hit to hardware than DX11. The BIG plus side is porting PC DX12 games will be a lot easier as they won't be forced to remake in DX11. So it means less chances of devs just saying I CBA making an xbone version because its too much hassle.
SephirothX21  +   145d ago
Directx 12 will provide a low level graphics AI and a higher level API that abstracts the functionality of the lower level API. Therefore the higher level API should not be too different from DirectX 11. DirectX 12 is basically an improved version of DirectX 11.x that the Xbox One currently uses and it will be added with a software update. Developers will then be able to choose what API to use on Xbox One. I'm currently working with DirectX 11.2 and anxious to see what DirectX 12 will bring to the table.
bmx_bandit  +   145d ago
I said it in here weeks ago and got hundres of disagrees.....

DirectX 12 will bring the possibility to put a whole 1080p picture in the 32mb-ESRAM-Framebuffer. So 1080p will be standard.
Ju  +   145d ago
FYI: Neither Mantel nor OpenGL exits for (next Gen) consoles. PS3 offers a PSGL API based on OpenGL/ES (incl. CG support).
johndoe11211  +   145d ago
If you say so pal.
christocolus  +   146d ago
This could be one of the upcoming features the dayz dev was talking about. I guess we will know more at GDC.
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VioletECotner   146d ago | Spam
Lukas_Japonicus  +   146d ago
Can someone explain to me what this actually means? I'm such a noob when it comes to things like this.

How can a new SDK and Directx12 improve weaker hardware? Genuine question. How much of a performance boost would this grant and HOW are my main questions.
#1.3 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(35) | Disagree(11) | Report | Reply
AutoCad  +   146d ago
this from reddit

DirectX is a performance interface that the xbox utilizes. It's designed to handle processes executed by your GPU. In theory, as DirectX is optimized, it's designed to get a little bit more out of the hardware you're using, namely graphics.
Pogmathoin  +   146d ago
Not necessarily weaker hardware, just some key poor choices, stiff design. It is close to PS4, but at same time, miles away due to key choices. No doubt devs will get better with it, and tools to help, but still, MS certainly dropped the ball on X1.
Eonjay  +   146d ago
Simply put, a more efficient API will allow developers to access more power with less effort. The most efficient code is machine language and since you can't expect developers to write advanced graphics engines in machine code, the next besr thing is an API that can do the low level talking for you.

For Example, when it was reported that the ICE team had increased tiling performance, the developer also noted that he had written the code in ASM, which is a low level code that is closer to machine code than C. This updated library will become part of the new API that increases the efficiency of higher level development.
GUTZnPAPERCUTZ  +   146d ago
In short... Code Compression
SonofGod  +   146d ago | Intelligent
On June last year MS showed a presentation where they had a GPU with a 16MB memory limit and used it to stream 6GB worth of textures. This will be the future of gaming.

I'm pretty sure the XO was made with Directx 12 in mind, that would explain the ESRAM and the tile move engines. Interesting..
sourgrouch   146d ago | Spam
pyramidshead  +   146d ago
@autocad

I would avoid reddit for definitions lol.
ChickeyCantor  +   145d ago
The problem with DirectX and OpenGL ( and anything similar ) is that there are layers of higher level code so that developers don't have to deal with technicalities such as machine specific code.

Because of these layers you are adding more overhead to your processing. It takes longer because of more added data that needs to be processed.

Consoles don't change hardware so developers can actually program closer to machine code instead of having all those extra layers to abstract hardware specifications.

This doesn't exist on PC's because of all the hardware configuration. That's why you need that level of abstraction.

But MS ( as well as the developers of OpenGL)is trying to do what AMD did with Mantle. OpenGL and DirectX are not just meant for games. So the API's served their purpose. But it seems like both DirectX and OpenGL are getting an overhaul to optimize code so it's closer to machine code. Less Overhead, more speed.
Prime157  +   145d ago
They are cutting the fat off of the steak. Optimization happens across the board...

Oh, it's you Lukas, I totally bought into this like you didn't know,... Lol, well said.

Still, hardware is like a pool while software fills that pool. Software can only try to maximize hardware, not increase it. So, yes, this helps, but how does it help when comparing hardware.
Gamer1982  +   145d ago
The problem is with DX is MS have a bad habit of using DX updates to just add new features ( like realistic fire and atmosphere) to the engine rather than optimize it. If anybody ever remembers DX10 it was horrid! You needed 5X the hardware specs to run games in DX10 mode for only 1X times the graphics..
Here's a great example
http://www.bit-tech.net/gam...

Those thinking this will help Xbone get better looking games by using less hardware are in for a shock as MS has a bad habit of going the opposite way..
AngelicIceDiamond  +   146d ago
So DirectX12 is coming to X1.

What exactly does that mean again?
Kingthrash360  +   146d ago
my thoughts too..guess we have to wait a few weeks to see...what exactly.
4Sh0w  +   146d ago
OK, I've been trying to answer that question myself, at first I thought it was just a new tool for pc development, but looks like I was wrong, since micro press release say its:

"better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone, and console."
http://www.gamespot.com/art...
http://www.pcworld.com/arti...

Im not sure what that means for X1 but I guess we'll find out as GDC. I think it might just be improving X1 drivers a bit but sounds like its going to be huge for pc, because it seems alot of pc sites I just read are pretty excited since the last major update was way back in 2008.
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SonofGod  +   146d ago | Well said
Imagine streaming 6GB worth of texture memory with only 32MB physical memory on hardware. That's what it means. MS showed it on a Directx 11.2 presentation on June last year, this is not magic.

Let's just say the XO was made for Directx 12.
sourgrouch   146d ago | Spam
vulcanproject  +   146d ago | Well said
Not a whole lot. SonofGod is going mad like it is some sort of revolution, when it isn't.

For example the feature he talks about in this thread shown for DirectX 11.2 (which Xbox One ALREADY supports) was tiled resources, which was announced several years behind an AMD extension in OpenGL called AMD sparse texture.

There is nothing Xbox One can or will be able to do that Playstation 4 cannot replicate (and probably run faster) if a programmer really desires.

'Partially resident textures' are not a new thing by any means. Although Microsoft are trumpeting them, it is because they are new to DirectX specifically.

Playstation 4 however supports them in hardware. All AMD GCN GPUs do, of which PS4's is the fastest AMD GCN GPU in the current gen consoles. Certainly PS4's texture fillrate is better than Xbox One's.

The technique itself has been around for years and hasn't been used too much, for various reasons. As with anything there are upsides and downsides.

It's not a magic playing field levelling bullet. Nothing is.

http://www.anandtech.com/sh... Have a gander at this.

Look and sound familiar SonofGod?

This article is over 2 years old.

Note the bit at the bottom?

"As D3D is not normally extensible it’s really only possible to easily access the feature from other APIs (e.g. OpenGL)"

Sooooo...it's been a feature in OpenGl for years, and D3D hasn't supported it. Until now. Which is why you only just learnt about it and think it's a revolution and new.
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GUTZnPAPERCUTZ  +   146d ago
Here is DX9 vs DX11 on Crysis 2... in short, it makes a difference lol.
http://youtu.be/ON8fU2RWyK4

Oh and DX10 was only used for Xbox 360 as a custom API but you could download it for 32bit Vista as well
dantesparda  +   146d ago
It just means that it might get a some new features that DX11+ doesnt have and maybe make some other ones more efficient. But DX isnt that efficient to begin with and you lose alot of performance for it. Sure its great for a dev to only have to program to one API and then let the hardware's raw power take care of the performance but when it comes to consoles, you dont really want DX (unless your priority is PC to X1/X1 to PC ports. For a console though you would prefer a custom API written to take as much advantage of the hardware its written for as possible (as close to the "metal" as possible). That way you can squeeze as much performance out of it as possble.

@SonofGod, sourgrouch and Gutz
Youse are all showing your ignorance. Gutz, 360 used DX9 with "SOME" DX10 features, and by some im talking about like 2 features. SonofGod and sour you two obviously know nothing about what you're talking about and instead are just parroting back sh!t youse heard/read on the internet

@vulcan
Dont forget CUDA had it prior to DX too.

To the MS fanboys, tiled resources is not new, like Vulcan said, AMD been had it and both consoles have basically the same hardware for it. And its nothing more than megatextures, already done on Rage on the PS3/360. Its not some revolutionary feature invented by MS, thats just them trying to hype it.
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vulcanproject  +   146d ago
"Here is DX9 vs DX11 on Crysis 2... in short, it makes a difference lol. "

Of course it does- because that is a PC implementation. Also there were over FIVE YEARS between DirectX 9c and DirectX 11. The difference between the DirectX APIs on WINDOWS also included a VAST array of hardware alterations in that time, which made things possible on DX11 class hardware formerly impossible on DX9 class hardware.

Console implementation is a different thing. You can do pretty much whatever you want within the hardware's constraints because you have very low level control of the whole system.

The Xbox One hardware is obviously fixed. therefore the difference between 11.2 now and 12 for a console will only be a refinement of the toolset which is only about 6 months old.

Xbox One hardware may meet some standards of DX12 and benefit from a newer toolset, but it will (obviously) not include hardware changes. Xbox 360 met some requirements of DirectX 10 and benefitted from some of the features, but not all(and not the significant ones), because it's hardware was obviously fixed before that version of DirectX. Much like Xbox One and DX12.

Whereas PC is free to introduce revised hardware specifications and have a more comprehensive implementation of DirectX 12 features.
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NeoTribe  +   146d ago
It means the xbox1 will be aspowerful as 100 xboxes! Than add ClOuDz support and its 200 xboxes in one. Pc master race cant even touch the soon to be al mighty xbox.
SilentNegotiator  +   145d ago
It means that the graphics are going to run on a different platform and have one or two new tools. And that Xbox fanboys are going to pretend like this will vindicate eSRAM and make the graphics better, which it won't.
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webeblazing  +   146d ago
you thought pc games was ahead of console before wait til devs start us dx12. its like leap frog but the little kid is playing against Jordan
jessupj  +   146d ago
I'm no software engineer so correct me if I'm wrong please, but since the the PS4 runs on openGL, which from my understand is extremely customisable, doesn't that mean any rendering technique or compression algorithm dirext12 uses on the xbone the PS4 can also useif the developers code it themselves?

Either way it's good to see both consoles improving. Can't wait to see the innovation in a couple of years.
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Ginesis  +   146d ago
In short yes! But, the PS4 wasn't made with this being the center, PS4 is relying on raw power. Xbox One was built with this in mind. Also OpenGL isn't DirectX. DirectX is the standard that everything else tries to imitate and follow.
Rocky5  +   146d ago
What Ginesis said.

The PS4 can do tiled resources, but at the expense of GPU/CPU cycles & maybe more memory.

The XB1 it would seem was built to take advantage of these, with custom hardware to take the grunt off the GPU/CPU & free up resources/cycles.

So in the end both systems can do it, just one can do it easier than the other.

Also DX takes a lot of the hard work away from the devs, not sure if OpenGL does the same.

Tiled resources, I can't wait for, imagine a game where everything you look at its super high rez, yet running on nothing more than 16mbs of ram, mind would boggle. The new Halo will probably utilise this, if not then there bloody mad.
DeadlyFire  +   145d ago
right and wrong my friend. PS4 uses PSSL a very custom blend low level API developed by Sony. Its core is based on Open GL or OpenES, but its features surpass DirectX11. Not sure how DX12 compares. I assume Sony can patch in the same elements if they see them useful.

Its also features a 2ndary wrapper API that is pretty comparable to OpenGL/DX. That works with the low level API or so I believe.

PS4 was designed to adapt to DirectX11/11.1 code very well I do believe. The advantage of fixed hardware means that the API can be adapted to do special tasks with the hardware pretty easily. So I wouldn't rule the PS4 out of doing the same things XB1 can do even with DX12.

@Ginesis
DX is Microsoft's API. Most games that run in Windows utilize it, but not all. OpenGL, OpenCL and so on are used elsewhere with Mac, and Linux, and also in Windows. Rage, and Minecraft are two examples of OpenGL based games.

Now with Steam Machines/SteamOS we could see some developers shift to a more universal API to put their games on more platforms with less cost for porting to new code. Well if SteamOS gains any momentum.

There is also AMD's Mantle which AMD says will be even better than OpenGL/DirectX for gaming on Linux/Windows.
gapecanpie  +   146d ago
If you care about power then get a pc or even a decent laptop as both consoles are outdated(outdated day 1) and have laughable performance.
Rip-Ridah  +   145d ago
When Sony's 1st and 2nd party devs put the games on those devices maybe some will consider it. Atm, I have been good with console gaming since Atari 2600. "Laughable performance." Smh. I and many others DO NOT CARE about pc's uber duper performance. We enjoy our PS4's, Xbox 1's, and Wii U's just fine. Thx 4 ur concern tho.
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bumnut  +   145d ago
Im mainly a pc gamer and love my xbox.
He who games on one system misses out on the most games
tee_bag242  +   146d ago
Here's the clencher..
No GPU yet supports Direct x 12. Not even Maxwell. So good luck with that on the X1.
Talk about hype. And direct x 12 isn't such a win for a console anyway. The only reason MS are starting to talk about direct X 12 is because PC optimization sucks, MS have been lazy in a PC gaming monopoly, and now Mantle has shown what optimization can do to a PC if developers give MS and the unoptimised mess that is direct X the middle finger.
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BG11579  +   145d ago
Plus, Steam OS and Steamboxes coming out, could putting more pressure onto MS to react.
If they loose their share of the market in the PC platform to a contestant, they will loose their position of dominance in the gaming sector overall.
Prime157  +   145d ago
It's hard saying things like that to console gamers. Specifically, gamers who never/very rarely game on pc.

I saw it at gamestop when I worked there. They couldn't explain composite cables vs standard AV cables. One a##-wipe left in a puff when I was trying to make sure it was component (vs hdmi) by asking, "5 prongs or 1 plug?" He would just say, "HD ON MY WII?" (Not wii U) - the Wii doesn't natively support hdmi and he didn't know if needed component or hdmi for hd when some tvs go hdmi only. WHY CAN'T YOU TELL ME HDMI OR COMMITMENT OR COMPOSITE?

Tech savvy is rare, even amongst gamers...
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Prime157  +   145d ago
Yeah, I drank too much in the comment above, sue me.
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tee_bag242  +   144d ago
My god..all the disagree's. Shows how much people actually know around here
BallsEye  +   145d ago
XO dx12 compatibile? Now this makes me think if all the rumors about tiled and mind blowing halo graphics might be true. Well, quantum break does look amazing (stated on official website it was all real time)
tbone567  +   145d ago
Can't wait for tiled resources on Direct X 12 on Xbox one.
lifeisgamesok  +   146d ago | Well said
Tiled Resources, ray tracing and more incoming :)
metalsonar713  +   146d ago
also in terms of optimization on porting, xbox could get closer to pc in terms of architecture and allowing feature sets
vulcanproject  +   146d ago
Tiled resources already exist in DirectX 11.2, which Xbox One currently supports as of right now. Tiled resources is similar to an existing extension in OpenGL....

Ray Tracing isn't something exclusive to any version of DirectX. You could do it on PS3, if you wanted to. Gran Turismo did. It was just pretty slow as it kinda is today. Ray Tracing is a bit of hyped up technique for games, but that's a different story.

Neither are being 'added' if you must know. This is an improved API for the console. It isn't unlocking some hidden wunder features the console couldn't necessarily already do if developers put the effort in.

Potentially it'll just make it easier for developers to access some features. The hardware isn't changing, what it can do isn't changing, just how developers can work with it is being modified.

For the better? Possibly. But it takes time for this sort of thing to mature. It takes time for PC developers to get their heads around it as well, often new versions of DirectX are under utilised and badly optimised for quite a while.

Such is the downsides of legacy support.
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imt558  +   145d ago
Ray Tracing??? Do you know what computing power needs to run Ray Tracing in full force???? Even the best high-end PC's can't run Ray Tracing today. Not yet.
Zombro  +   145d ago
Wow a xbox comment with more agrees then disagrees how did you do it your amazing
CharlesSwann  +   146d ago
And what a difference that will make. /s
SonofGod  +   146d ago
Trust me, it will. This is the future of gaming on all platforms. It's not just about hardware anymore.
cozomel  +   146d ago
^^^

clown
Prime157  +   145d ago
Should I trust you if I'm a Buddhist, Hindu, or Muslim?
Angeljuice  +   145d ago
@SonofGod

" Trust me, it will."

I'm sorry but I don't trust you at all as you are ranting and regurgitating hype about which you seem to know very little.

I intend to reserve the bestowing of my trust for those more worthy of my respect.

You have to remember that the reason mantle was created in the first place is because Microsoft did such a poor job of keeping software optimised on the PC.

The only reason the XBO has the hardware modifications to allow these features is because if it didn't it wouldn't be possible to run some of the features at all on the weaker silicone. Another case of "catch-up" rather than an advantage.
Radentangr  +   145d ago
The cloud is not being used to create better lighting. Its being used to make adaptive AI and shared simulation. Anything that can be translated with a 3D space coordinate and timing will be used. Great if you want enemies that feel real, bad if you want amazing visuals.
hollabox  +   146d ago
Alright, I'm going to hold off buying a new video card is DX12 is coming out later this year.
Wikkid666  +   146d ago
Looks info will be released at GDC
hollabox  +   146d ago
Yeah I wanted to buy AMD R9 290X until everybody started jacking up the price. My Nvidia GTX 670 is still going strong but can longer run games at or near 100 hz with all effects on. Well I'm glad I didn't waste $550 on tech soon to be replaced.
zep  +   146d ago
does that mean old model highend card wont support dx12 like 780 ti?
Raider69  +   146d ago
No!Nvidia just needs to release a driver for the GPU to support dx12!
Volkama  +   146d ago
It'll be a while until PC games really make use of it, but if you don't upgrade every couple of years it's probably worth waiting.

If the xbox one supports dx12 then there is a strong chance AMD's r7 and r9 range if cards will too (they're far newer after all and drectx12 will be no secret to AMD) but best to wait a short time for confirmation.

Mantle boosts my PC performance significantly, if directx adopts similar principles it's great news all round.
Dewitt  +   146d ago
Yes!!! Amazing news, can't wait to see what devs can do with the optimization now. This is why MS went with the faster RAM over bitrate.

SDK 2.0 was Direct X12 I see, which why they only did one tool upgrade since Nov.
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cozomel  +   146d ago
Its obvious you dont know what youre talking about. You literally just made all that up
Dewitt  +   145d ago
ESRAM has a faster transfer rate, GDDR5 has a bigger pool to draw from and yes I know exactly what I am talking about since I am a computer engineer and developer for Azure. So I would I am more than qualified to make an opinion without some kid jumping all over me because he doesn't research.
BG11579  +   145d ago
"This is why MS went with the faster RAM over bitrate."

Aww, man you made me laugh. Bubble up for funny.
bmx_bandit  +   145d ago
ESRAM > GDDR5 in terms of speed.
BG11579  +   145d ago
Yeah all 32MB off it...
kickerz  +   146d ago
Niiice!!!! Can't wait to see the improvements
Bonkerz  +   146d ago
O wow, not gonna lie i didnt think it was gonna happen but this is incredible news for X1 gamers. This is definitely gonna boost the heck out of the performance of everything, cant wait till GDC to hear more about this.
OwnageDC650  +   146d ago
Perhaps Halo 5 will feature DirectX12?
#8 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(34) | Disagree(10) | Report | Reply
u got owned  +   146d ago
one can only hope :)
christocolus  +   146d ago
Not just halo5

Halo2 anniversary
Forza horizon2
Quantum break
Fable legends
Crackdown3
Project Nagano
Phantum dust2
PGR
Gears of War
Sunset overdrive
Ryse2
Banjoe Kazooie3

And what ever titles still in the oven from 1st,2nd and 3rd party devs.(Hope they all come to pass)
#8.2 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(32) | Disagree(23) | Report | Reply
PrinceOfAllSaiyans  +   146d ago
Lol your pathetic. Making up games out your ass. Forza Horizon 2
Ryse 2
Banjoe Kazooie 3

Lmao man.
DigitalRaptor  +   145d ago
Most of those games are either dreams from your head, or a good number of years away.

Is this really what you hope for?
curtis92  +   146d ago
Genuine question: is that possible with the hardware that's in it? I thought hardware had to be optimized for a certain DX right out of the gate? Is that not right?
lsujester  +   146d ago
You're right to some degree.

Now often times a newer API will offer improvements in pre-existing features, making it a bit more efficient or whatever. Those things can be applicable to previous generations of the API. But most of the time, any big new features have to be supported by the hardware.

For example Direct3D 11 added multi-threading features to 9 and 10 cards, but the tessellation it added was only available in new cards which were made with it in mind.

So being we know little about 12 is going to be, there's no way to know what it will improve. Chances are, though, there will be some sort of improvements that 11-based GPUs (X1 certainly) can use. Probably minor compared to what 11.2 already can do, if anything.

But will there be some game-changing new feature that only the X1 can use? Only in fanboys imaginations.
Kingthrash360  +   146d ago
yeah you answerd some of my thoughts on the matter..
what does this mean for x1? not much, but something.
they may be over hyping this...like they do other things. but good news, no matter how small is better than bad news; or no news at all.
lsujester  +   146d ago
If I had to guess, I'd say it's largely going to be making DX a lower level API in general, the so-called "coding close to the metal". If that's the case, it should theoretically decrease overhead a small bit on the X1.

All in all, I doubt it'll mean much, if anything, to the actual workings of the X1, but MS will advertise the hell out of it. Probably a move to bolster their own API versus OpenGL, which has been gaining some of its lost traction lately.
TheRedButterfly  +   146d ago
@Isujester:

"But will there be some game-changing new feature that only the X1 can use? Only in fanboys imaginations."

I hope you realize that Microsoft made the XO to work around DX12. Do you honestly believe that DX 12 has been cooked up completely separately from the XO over the past 2-4 years they've both been in development??

Also, https://twitter.com/DirectX...
DirectX 12 seems to have a sweet spot for Xbox One.

Also, http://schedule.gdconf.com/...
"For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console."

Don't expect MS to be sharing its baby with the competition. They fully intend to keep this exclusive to Windows/Xbox (<- It's in the freakin' name! "DirectX Box") One.
lsujester  +   145d ago
Everything you just wrote pretty much reaffirms what I have already said about them coding closer to the metal. I imagine most of what they are doing is making the API considerably lower level than previously before, which is something the consoles are largely doing already. It's also precisely what AMD is trying to do with Mantle.

"I hope you realize that Microsoft made the XO to work around DX12. Do you honestly believe that DX 12 has been cooked up completely separately from the XO over the past 2-4 years they've both been in development??"

No, I don't believe that, but that doesn't actually mean that 12 is a huge upgrade over 11.2. While I don't doubt there may be some new features, I highly doubt it's anything revolutionary, as do most of the people talking about it. Nothing they've said leads me to believe there are any really big features added. This really sounds like a shift to a "closer to the metal" API, which is something the consoles already do.

Either way, if AMD is indeed in the loop, as I imagine they are, then their GPUs could already support 12. Being as consoles are much more closed than PCs are, then developers naturally already have better control over the hardware. DX12 may make it a bit more efficient, but I doubt it's anything OpenGL isn't already doing in some form or fashion.
mhunterjr  +   146d ago
I would imagine that DX12 would have been in the plans all along. Any hardware needs would already be in place.
Qrphe  +   146d ago
I don't doubt the Xbox will fully support DX12, because it'd be silly if it didn't.
brads4  +   146d ago
What if.... MS planned for this all along and all the hardware support is already in place.......
MysticStrummer  +   146d ago
With this coming so soon after launch, I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't planned for. Only time will tell what sort of difference maker it will be though. Looks like not much is known about it yet.

http://www.extremetech.com/...
monkeyDzoro  +   146d ago
Dat secret sauce though !! LoL
Borma  +   146d ago
This will end up being great news for Xbox One owner's. Instead of the whole Cloud jargon nonsense, imagine if they touted this instead as a way to change the Xbox's graphics to greater heights.
TRD4L1fe  +   146d ago
can somebody explain to me what exactly this will do, Im not to tech savvy
WeAreLegion  +   145d ago
It will help developers make games faster and possibly improve certain aspects of the graphics. Don't expect much. This is more a nice thing for developers.
aerisbueller  +   145d ago
this allows xbox one fanboys to stop saying 'Titanfall' for 10 minutes. This is supposed to be a much bigger boost than the last upgrade from 'the cloud' to 'Titanfall'
jay2  +   146d ago
Ah, so that's why the xbox one can't do 1080P yet. it needs DX12.The tables are sure to turn with this and cloud...........
ape007  +   146d ago
great news
gameon1985  +   146d ago
So the secret sauce is real, I think a certain group of people owe Mistermediax a apology lol.
u got owned  +   146d ago
lets not get ahead of ourself. XD
jmc8888  +   146d ago
That isn't secret sauce, and everything inside DX12, will be copied in OpenGL.

So in other words, whatever it brings, both sides will be bringing it.

One through DX12, the other through a newer version of OpenGL.
#16.2 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(16) | Disagree(28) | Report | Reply
gameon1985  +   146d ago
You sound a little scared there.
jmc8888  +   146d ago
I've always stated if Microsoft gets down to making good 1st party exclusive games that I think I might enjoy and lowers the price, I'd buy one. Did DirectX 12 impact this? Nope.

I also have an i7 3820@4.3ghz with a GTX 670. I even have a Wii U.

Progress doesn't scare me, but you see I don't live in hopium world, and I like to actually analyze things.

DX12 isn't secret sauce, I know that for a FACT. It's all these people grasping for hope that is simply sad. You guys/gals are better then this. This was expected, and no it isn't a game changer. People are going to feel awfully silly when you realize this.

You see you may think DX12 is something no one else will have, but the fact is, DX12 isn't the only game in town, and with PSSL the PS4 version of OpenGL, any new features can easily be adapted to the PS4. Even Steambox will use OpenGL.

This DirectX 12 also will help PC's more then consoles. Sorry. Even Mantles's performance gains on the PC are meh, and the better your CPU is, and higher it is overclocked, the LESS it boosts it!

Remember folks, the GPU from both the PS4 and Xbox One are from the same lines. Just the PS4 got the beefier one. They have the same CPU.

So why exactly would I be scared?

I didn't buy my PS4 or Wii U because of power, and I sure and the hell wouldn't be buying an Xbox One because of DX12 and any single digit effects it might have in increasing performance. Performance which can be copied and applied to anyone else.

But when I buy something, I do want it to have a certain level of power for the price and right now I can't justify a $115 graphics power in a $499 box by a company that pissed all over my consumer rights.

I've long been looking forward to 22nm Maxwell or Volta stacked memory lines for the upcoming Nvidia graphics cards for PC's, or ATI's equivalent...because you see, unlike you, I don't care who puts out what, as long as they aren't pissing down my back and tell me it's raining.

I don't bend over for ANY corporation.

So you go on thinking whatever you want to, I'll stick right here in reality.

When this blows over and the PS4 still has a lead over the XB1 and PC's still have a massive lead over both, and Wii U is still underneath them all.

I'm happy with reality. When I want to play a graphics wonder game, I'll get it on PC. When I want console exclusives I'll play consoles. When I want to play a FPS, I generally will choose a console version.

It seems to me that you thinking I'm scared simply shows your desire to want to be right about this. I fully expected DX12 on Xbox One. You didn't. It's a shock to you. Not to me.

I fully know it doesn't change things. None of this means Microsoft didn't completely screw up the XB1 and somehow treated it's former fanbase like utter crap.

So how does this news give me any reason to be scared? Because it's on a console YOU think I'll never buy? Because somehow I only game on a PS4, when I don't? Because I somehow think a PS4 is powerful?

Just you wait and see what this DirectX 12 does. I know for a fact it isn't what you think. How do you translate that to someone who doesn't realize this? Sadly with every person who falls prey to more fake hype, it can only result in another crash down to reality. Just remember folks, you do it to yourself.
dantesparda  +   146d ago
OpenGL copy it from DX12?! try the other way around and Gameon keep showing your ignorance and even greater fanboyism, it makes you look good and smart, ....NOT!
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OsirisBlack  +   145d ago
Actually the new DirectX12 is them trying to get closer to what OpenGL already allows. Sometimes I cannot stand this site you got that many disagrees for stating what is largely true. I am sure they will be able to code closer to the metal with the new directx and it will have some new features. However whatever new features they have will be reproduced in OpenGl..... this is a FACT and has been since forever.

It will not make the XB1's gpu more powerful and able to compete with the PS4's it will however make coding and programming on the machine much easier and we should see some improvement in graphical fidelity even if it is small. The only problem is the things Sony's ice team has cooked up make this largely a moot point.

I say this as an owner of XB1,PS4 and the Wii U.... I really wish Microsoft would have gone with a much better GPU and just dumped the Kinect. No matter how they fiddle with the software/firmware they cannot get past that horrid GPU they are using.
DigitalRaptor  +   145d ago
These delusions cannot be made up, nor can they be healthy.

See someone. Seriously.
GamerXGATT  +   146d ago
According to insiders, DX 11.2 and 12 make the 32 MB extra ram like 6GB GDDR5.... wonder what that means in real world performance.
dantesparda  +   146d ago
Its hyperbole, wont mean much in real world perf, you'll see.
purp13m0nk3y  +   146d ago
Bha ha ha. Good one. Sarcasm....... right?
OsirisBlack  +   145d ago
Please do not fall fot that, it is good to have hope but lets not fall for hyperbole and cloud power V.2
aerisbueller  +   145d ago
sigh. So many people say this nonsense. I don't even think the original speaker was trying to outright lie, but believing 32MB can be like 6GB shows such a profound ignorance of the way ram, graphics, compression, and memory addressing work it's unbelievable.

They could have access to 6GB IF that wasn't already taken up by everything else in the game, and xbox one's 18 operating systems. Aside from that it's not like having 6GB at a time, it's a specific technique for tiling that allows you stream in textures quickly enough that will help for specific scenarios. For instance, if your 6GB was taken up by various different texture details of everything then it would be able to handle things like zooming into a guys jacket and get to an insane detail level, because it's loading in new textures as you get close. This is definitely very cool, but it's not a magical MS secret sauce, opengl has it's own version, before that RAGE engine had a shitty software based version. And most importantly, in no way shape or form is it the same thing as actually having 6GB of faster RAM.
CJDUNCAN  +   146d ago
For those of us that don't understand the significance as it relates to gaming, I take it that this will boost performance drastically?
DoesUs  +   146d ago
No. usually new revisions of DX (and Open GL for that matter) contain new GFX features. At the end of the day the hardware is still only able to achieve so much, software/tools only get you so far.
jmc8888  +   146d ago
It can bring efficiencies. Like DX11.1 I think raised the limit of certain shaders in various ways, so you could add more with less overhead cost.

But remember, both can upgrade them, and OpenGL which is what Sony uses, always has a comparable version.

So I don't see the big news, I was fully expecting the next DX version to be implemented into the XBox One, and the equivalent to be implemented in the PS4.
Slothnut  +   146d ago
If you honestly think that dx12 isn't going to make huge increases in performance over dx11.2 you are in massive titan sized denial.
metalsonar713  +   146d ago
this could be huge
mrpsychoticstalker  +   146d ago
What is directx12?
JBSleek  +   146d ago
The successor to DirectX11.2
pyramidshead  +   146d ago
your new chamber of secrets ;).
LAWSON72  +   146d ago
Sounds like it maybe good news for us PC gamers, since that may mean we will not need new GPUs
russo121  +   146d ago
With dx12 xbone, without any doubt, will do ray tracing at it's minimum.
This is a full PR bullshit and the cows will / are following.

Edit: Sorry for the cows.
#22 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(14) | Disagree(14) | Report | Reply
Software_Lover  +   146d ago
Meh. I seriously doubt if it will make a significant difference. If anything, it would put more strain on the GPU side of things. Here is hoping I'm wrong though.
VioletECotner   146d ago | Spam
Dewitt  +   146d ago
Ray tracing and tile resources take strain off the GPU and pull from the faster RAM. Allowing GPU to focus on more specific graphic based optimizations.
#23.2 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(13) | Disagree(14) | Report | Reply
OpieWinston  +   146d ago
Your name is such a contradiction. Everytime I see anything about the power of DirectX you dismiss it...Clearly you've got some issues and don't know wtf a Software Lover is.
Software_Lover  +   146d ago
??????????

This is the first DirectX article that I have ever seen on N4G so I'm not sure I know what you're talking about.
cozomel  +   146d ago
ssshhhh, dont say things like that around here, there be fanboys in these woods. Oh to late, hence all the disagrees

And Dewitt keep showing everybody your ignorance, and your pom poms
#23.4 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
kickerz  +   146d ago
Software_hater... lol
You should be saying - "damn dx12 you are so fine, I'm gonna buy u some flowers and invite you into my house for some software lovin" lol
#23.5 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
SliceOfTruth888  +   146d ago
Anyone who thinks Microsoft didnt have this in its plans for Xbone is just pathetic. And I am not here to be like OMGZZZ XBOX >>>>>> PS4....but you just have to use common sense. We have not even come close to seeing what PS4 or Xbone can do and if you think they have been maxed you are 14 years old
jmc8888  +   146d ago
Yeah it's something I already thought was going to happen.

Still doesn't change my position on the Xbox One.

Yes as I've stated since the beginning, better efficiencies will improve the overall quality of the graphics, but indeed every day even the top end PC with 3 Titans can be maxed out.

Raw power and efficiencies are two different ways to describe power.

This won't increase the Xbox's power. The PS4 can also get the same gains through a new version of OpenGL.

But effectually both will do more with less, and so it it is 'moar' without more raw power.

I'm actually surprised how many people are surprised. I thought this was a foregone conclusion.
skoorydook  +   146d ago
Genuine question here to the more tech savy posters.

How does this improve things greatly ?

Not trolling or trying to get a rise, genuinely don't know.
#25 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
AutoCad  +   146d ago
DirectX is a performance interface that the xbox utilizes. It's designed to handle processes executed by your GPU. In theory, as DirectX is optimized, it's designed to get a little bit more out of the hardware you're using, namely graphics.

for comparison between DX10 and 11.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3...
#25.1 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
skoorydook  +   146d ago
Should see an improvement then, thanks good stuff
bleedsoe9mm  +   146d ago
i'm with skoorydook , i thought directx was there as a underlying uniformed platform so devs to program to , and made it so they don't have to worry about different hardware configurations . they optimize to direct x and direct x handles the hardware configurations . i could be complete wrong , not sure how it help the xb1 since all the hardware is identical . i guess it would make the porting much easier if its the same as the pc version
#25.1.2 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report
Lulz_Boat  +   145d ago
yup, i remember this benchmark with the dragon, use DX10 vs DX11 on THE SAME HARDWARE, and apart the better looking graphics, you will get a good 20fps LESS. nice uh?
OsirisBlack  +   145d ago
It basically allows you to get more with less, this is good news for XB1 and PC owners. It is also good news for PS4 owners as whatever features are added through DX12 will be copied in OpenGL. Basically win all around.
Convas  +   146d ago
I take it all back, I just now realized the significance of what I'm looking at here. Confirmation that DirectX 12 will be utilized in Xbox One.

It is the called (DirectX)box One, after all, so it's safe to assume that this was MS' aim all along.

Which also means ... we could be looking at a reality where MisterX was ... *gulp* ... right.
#26 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(20) | Disagree(16) | Report | Reply
KionicWarlord222  +   146d ago
Indeed good sir. Dx12 will breathe in a new era of past pixels and stitch tapestry. It will redefine 1080p as you know it.
jmc8888  +   146d ago
Not really.

Rumors about DX12, and it being logical to be implemented in the next xbox, now known as Xbox One, have been around the internet for YEARS.

For MisterX, a broken clock is right twice a day.

I remember one videocard I had accepted upgrades to like 3-4 different DirectX upgrades. I think it was like DirectX 7-9C.

..and again, DirectX, while being the most popular, is not what Sony uses, they use Open GL, and if you look around DirectX and Open GL copy each other.

So this isn't an advantage to one or the other. If anything the PS4 has more power to leverage the newer Open GL features that DX12 will also incorporate.
#26.2 (Edited 146d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(18) | Report | Reply
Convas  +   146d ago
Your fireman-style damage control is hilariously refreshing.

Please, continue to look even more desperate by plastering your "OpenGL will be updated to match too!" arguments as far as your bubbles will allow.
cozomel  +   146d ago
@convas

Wow, you actually think MisterX is right, wow, just wow! That says everything about you. And dont forget, the PS4 has the same HW, same CPU and the better GPU and better memory system, and whether you like it or not, any feature that DX12 might bring can easily be done on Sony's custom API which is even more to the metal than DX12 will ever be, so there is no advantage over the PS4. But whatever helps you sleep at nigh, right? Man you fanboys are just being strung along on your futile hope
TheGrimReaper  +   146d ago
No, OpenGL can't copy things from DirectX!
You liar!!!
All normals would be inverted!!!

/s

Some will understand, most will not :D
pyramidshead  +   146d ago
He was right about what, exactly? o.O
TristanPR77  +   146d ago
I just hope that the fanboys dont start believing this is a magical secret sauce that will now miraculously make the xbone on par with the PS4.
urwifeminder  +   146d ago
Wow DX12 playing flight sim x back in the day having the dx10 preview was a massive leap , exciting news indeed try to down play it down but this is pc next gen gear.
IRNMUNKEY  +   146d ago
Also the Xbox is designed for doing tiled resources in hardware. Open GL can copy technique but ps4 is not designed the same way meaning its tiled resources would be done in software which would actually put more strain on the CPU/GPU. So in fact this will be a huge advantage for Xbox going forward.
Animal Mutha 76  +   146d ago
Nought to do with PS4 this story.

Xbox is a good console and I think it has a few surprises for us yet. DX12 is a good start.
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