Comments (299)
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Septic  +   374d ago | Well said
Say what you want about the specs, but you have to give to give respect to Albert Penello for his down to earth and frank nature when discussing this.

Obviously, he works for MS so he has to defend the product, but he does so with far more objectivity than the likes of Harrison and others.

Also, I think we can all agree that taking these hardware figures at face value and equating them to a 50% advantage is silly and not taking into account the way things actually work.

"Given this continued belief of a significant gap, we're working with our most senior graphics and silicon engineers to get into more depth on this topic. They will be more credible then I am, and can talk in detail about some of the benchmarking we've done and how we balanced our system."

More disclosure and transparency is the way forward.
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allformats   374d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(6)
Baka-akaB  +   374d ago | Well said
I wouldnt praise the frank nature of anyone working for PR at Microsoft , nor Sony nor Nintendo nor any other ....

It's their job description to lie when its needed . And obviously , they dont even always know that much when it comes to hardcore tech and geek stuff
#1.2 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(107) | Disagree(30) | Report | Reply
stevehyphen  +   374d ago | Well said
They're skilled in evasion. They're supposed to be.

What I keep getting stuck on is that these console power debates are really just stuck with the people on places like n4g and NeoGAF. To me, it just feels like fanboys of either camp just trying to convert each other.
Remember when Sony said that they have over a million preorders? One million is a small fraction of the people who will own the console over its lifespan. The arguments on here are pointless if the mass of buyers don't see them. I was at friend's house the other night, and I was one of the three there to have a next gen console preordered. I'm getting a ps4 and the other two are getting Xbox One. These guys have no idea about any differences in console power, they wouldn't have a sweet clue who Penello is, they are only vaguely familiar with TV features, new Kinect features, Gaikai, remote play, etc., they don't even mind paying the extra $100. The only thing that seemed to matter was that they have to wait a week longer than me.

All that I am trying to say is too many people are getting caught up arguing this foolishness.

I'll be happy with my PS4, and I'm sure others will be happy with their own console purchase(s)
Too many people are trying to convince others that their future purchase is wrong. So what if it is? Let the buyer find out on their own.
HammadTheBeast  +   374d ago | Well said
"• We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted."

Here is an exceptional piece of BS.

Our peak ON PAPER is 272gb/sec. YOU DON'T CALCULATE THE PEAK LIKE THAT BY ADDING IN THE ESRAM WITH THE DDR3, THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS, IN THE LINE ABOVE HE SAYS PEOPLE ARE TAKING THE GPU COMMENT OUT OF CONTEXT, THEN WHAT BS IS THIS?!
mewhy32  +   374d ago
Well Albert has a tough job. You have to admire the way that he's spinning this. I realize that just because the GPU has 50% more compute units than the bone's doesn't equate into 50% better performance. However, I also realize that the eDRAM is only 32mb and it's high bandwidth doesn't equate 1:1 with the DDR3 for the big boost that he's trying to spin in there LOL. Overall I'd estimate that if you pushed both systems to the max you'd probably see about 30% performance difference in the PS4's favor, not 50%. However, this is all null if you don't get both systems running at their max. The only time that we're going to see that is with exclusive software.
n4rc  +   374d ago
Of course he's lying!! Why wouldn't he be!

Pathetic.. Saw it coming a mile away... Spin fanboys spin!
thechosenone  +   374d ago
"I realize that just because the GPU has 50% more compute units than the bone's doesn't equate into 50% better performance."

lol! This is unfreaking real. The level of denial by xbox users is off the freaking charts. xD

And read the rest of the thread to understand why Penello is being a deceitful little *****.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

PS4 vs XBOX One: Developer Comments Compiled
http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
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scott182  +   374d ago
Sony is not the one that has been saying it!! This guy is blaming sony for what random Devs have been saying.
knockknockannefrank  +   374d ago
well im sure this MS employee is completely unbiased in his writing...right?
gaffyh  +   374d ago
Is Albert Penello the system architect? Because he really needs to STFU.

Sony isn't saying the PS4 is 50% more powerful, the DEVELOPERS are. So no matter what you try and explain your way out of, you can't, because the games makers are noticing the difference.

Also that bandwidth comment is complete BS. He's comparing peak bandwidth, of ESRAM and DDR3 as the peak possible performance. Bandwidth doesn't work like that. The ESRAM is on 32MB, so data will have to be cut up into 32MB, passed through that bottleneck, which will slow it down LOADS, and then to the 8GB DDR3 RAM, which runs at 68Gb/s. The PS4's entire RAM pool can run at 176Gb/s in peak performance. PS4 wins, easily.
nukeitall  +   374d ago | Intelligent
@gaffy & others:

I didn't see Penello refer to what Sony said, and use that as a basis. If anything, he is just talking about mis-information that is thrown around by some (not necessarily Sony) and giving examples of how numbers can be misconstrued.

@HammadTheBeast:

"
Our peak ON PAPER is 272gb/sec. YOU DON'T CALCULATE THE PEAK LIKE THAT BY ADDING IN THE ESRAM WITH THE DDR3, THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS,"

That is exactly how you compute bandwidth as long as you have simultaneous access. Think of water pipes, if you have multiple smaller pipes that combined gives you more water than one big pipe, you indeed have higher bandwidth of water coming through. It doesn't matter that it comes through multiple pipes. This is exactly how your memory works.

What is often not discussed though is the equivalent of the length of your water pipe. You might be able to get a lot of water at once, but if your pipe is very long it will take you a long time to get that initial water (or data), causing a delay.

This equivalent to latency, something DDR3 has a big advantage over GDDR5.

Think of an online match, even if you have gazillion Mbps, a small Mbps can have superior experience with minimal lag, whereas a large Mbps can have massive lag. The simple answer is online gaming is dependent on latency i.e how long it takes to get the data, and almost zero bandwidth need. The amount of data being sent and receive is minimal, but the time is the killer factor.

That is why a lot of these numbers on their own is at best a very very very rough measurement and often times skewed towards marketing as opposed to real world benefits.
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strifeblade  +   374d ago | Intelligent
The sony Fanboys commenting on the system power here are complete embecile, and know absolutely nothing. But here are exact figures.

40.67% gpu difference in favor of sony (since x1 upclock, prior to thats it was 50%) (853x12)vs (800x18)

9.375% cpu advantage in favour of x1 (thanks to upclock- prior it was even) (1.75 vs 1.6)

Ram in terms of bandwidth sony have the advantage but in terms of latency x1 have the advantage. Sony takes steps to minimalize latency disadvantages and x1 introduce es ram to achieve 140-150gb/ps (realistically) vs sony's 176 gb/ps. I know Panello says differently but numerous tech sites describe it in this way.

I also understand that x1 have larger buses- 30gb vs sony's 20gb. I beleive panello mentions this when he talks about the cpu communicating with the gpu at 30gb/ps. Sony is 33% slower in this regard.

X1 has 8 gb of flash to help os run and load apps very fast compared to sony's standard hdd from which apps would load from.

MSOFT confirms that x1 have numerous sub systems and customizations that are unknown to us and supposed to reduce the power gap. They announced they have 15 processors in the system (at hot chips) and is rumored that some of these processors can be used for graphics which would further reduce sony's power advantage.

Honestly i believe msoft- A lot of ppl on forums are implying the ps4 will make xbox one look like a wii u- or ps4 is a generation ahead of xbox when that is not the case.

Take the wii-u for example- its 2-3x more powerful than ps3/360 but do game3s look 2-3x better than the multiplat counterpart on ps3 or 360? No but there are small differences. Look at the wii- its also a few times more powerful than ps2/xbox and gamecube and you get the same results lol.
darthv72  +   374d ago
is it more powerful...is it not more powerful....?

I dont give a damn. just give me the games and i will decide for myself.
gaffyh  +   374d ago | Well said
@nuke - by that logic the Xbox 360 has a higher bandwidth than the Xbone because the eDram runs at 256Gb/s. So the Xbone is actually a downgrade. We all know that isn't true, so please cut the BS.

@strife - CPU speed isn't confirmed. Original rumours stated 1.6Ghz, since Feb it has been rumoured to be 2 Ghz.
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P0werVR  +   374d ago | Well said
I believe the ESRAM bandwidth will be used primarily for textures, obviously. Since textures use up most of the memory and takes up most of the space.

It's crazy in how the likes of Hammadthebeast talk so much about the architectures of these consoles yet still don't have a clue of what they're talking about, even just the basics. But makes more sense when emotions easily take over.

My question to all of you nay sayers.

Has Sony been confident enough to post anything of relevancy compared to what Microsoft has been doing these past months with Xbox One?

That goes to show they have nothing to show but specs.

The only thing that Sony has and why their games look great is because they have better first party developers. NOT SPECS!

If you can't consider that fact, goes to show how much you know. Microsoft this gen are going to focus more on first party studios fairly early with Black Tusk Studios.

@gaffy

Yes, but in Xbox One's archetectural panel video they stated clear time and time again that the ESRAM will take full advantage of that very purpose and why i't s an "upgrade" from the EDRAM.

Again, you make yourself look foolish.
#1.2.13 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(14) | Disagree(18) | Report
nukeitall  +   374d ago | Well said
@gaffyh:

"@nuke - by that logic the Xbox 360 has a higher bandwidth than the Xbone because the eDram runs at 256Gb/s. So the Xbone is actually a downgrade. We all know that isn't true, so please cut the BS."

Which also means the Xbox 360 is more powerful than the next generation PS4! /s

Totally proving my point, that these carefully crafted specs completely disregard other factors including that the Xbox One has more than 3x times the amount of RAM in ESRAM than eDRAM than the Xbox 360.

As Penello said, there are more to just pure numbers measuring very specific things ignoring other facts.

MS heavily engineered their system to handle bottlenecks and they have been far more open about what their system is compared to the competition (Sony) hiding behind a few carefully crafted specced numbers.
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strifeblade  +   374d ago | Well said
@gaffyh

Your info is outdated the only reason that 2ghz cpu rumour is there because the cpu ships standard as a 2ghz cpu- both sony's and microsoft use the same cpu. Since then we learned newer rumors pointed to a downclock to 1.6ghz for less heat, run quieter and as a result runs on lower power.

Sony's system does not allow for an upclock to 2 ghz or their gpu to be clocked above 800mhz. why?

1st the system is small compared to x1,as a result parts are closer thus retaining more heat

2nd the cooling system is smaller and as a result would run louder if chips are upclocked.

3rd the power brick is inside the system opposed to outside and as a result adds more heat.

These 3 key characteristics will not allow ps4 to be clocked higher without seriously jeopordizing the components of the ps4. Due to the x1 efficient component layout- it allowed them to clock their chips higher.
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starchild  +   374d ago
@strifeblade

You are correct. The ~50% more CU power in the PS4 is FAR from the whole story.

But the mindless fanboys are going to keep screaming "50% more powerful" because that's what they want to believe. They're just as delusional as the Xbox fanboys who believed that misterX guy about the second GPU thing.

I believe that the PS4 is more powerful, I simply reject the simplistic thinking of these fanboys that says "50% more compute units equals a 50% more powerful console". Herp derp.

If that were true, it would mean my PC with an HD 7950 was over 55% more powerful than the PS4, simply because my HD 7950 has 28 compute units vs 18 in the PS4. This clearly is not the case, as differences in APIs, OS overhead, architecture and other hardware and software differences can all dramatically affect the final performance of the machine in question.

We don't have all the details and even if we did I wouldn't be able to accurately say exactly how the performance of each console relates to each other. What I do know is that the fanboys saying "the PS4 is 50% more powerful" don't have a clue what they are talking about.

For now, I'll listen to people like John Carmack, a man who I respect and who has always shown himself to be knowledgeable, rational and fair.

In his words:

"I haven't done really rigorous benchmarking [but] they're very close and they're both very good," he said.

"It's almost amazing how close they are in capabilities, how common they are."

"And that the capabilities that they give are essentially the same."
http://www.computerandvideo...
http://www.forbes.com/sites...
JokesOnYou  +   374d ago
I don't see what he said wrong, the info is all right here http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... I mean reading it and what he said seems legit for the most part. Ps4 on paper is more powerful but alot of the 50%, 40% stuff is BS according to all sources and most say X1 has some strengths that were previously unknown and nobody's completely sure how it all works. Which is again why putting a hard % on performance difference is foolish at this point but of course fanboy engineers/n4g experts will tell you they know everything.
cell989  +   374d ago
@ Starchild why dont you also listen to the GOW Judgment dev that also claimed the PS4 is indeed that much more powerful
dantesparda  +   374d ago
Wow, the level of stupidity and ignorance shown by half the people above me is astounding.

First of all, to all the MS fanboys claiming better latency on the X1. Its not gonna matter, because when it comes to graphics, bandwidth is king, PERIOD! not latency, FACT! Why do you think all high end cards have GDDR5 and not lower latency modules. When it come to the highly parallelized architecture of a GPU, bandwidth is what matters most (keeping all the pipes feed) not latency. Get that through your thick dumb heads. Latency is not going to matter in graphics processing. And GPUs are design to better handle the higher latency. Than a serial CPU.

And to strifeblade, dont call people "embeciles" if you cant even spell the word "imbecile" right, cuz it makes you look like an imbecile. Also the Wii U is 2-3 times more powerful than the PS3/360!? What the f*ck have you been smoking? Tell Nintendo to send me some of that sh*t. There goes all your credibility. Its obvious you know less of what you speak of than even NukeitAll

And PowerVR, you obviously know even less than Nuke or Strife, geesh! its getting dumber in here

And p.s. to Nuke, the 360s eDRAm had 256, wait for it, gigaBITS, you catch the word "BITS", not bytes, as in 1/8 the size of BYTES. Translated into bytes equated to 32GBytes, not 256GBytes. You get it? Or do i have to further spell it out for you?

And these are games machine first, and multimedia devices second. And in a games machine graphics is very important/king, and for graphics, bandwidth matters way more than latency. So the higher bandwidth of the PS4 will better benefit developers then the lower latency of the DDR3 in the X1. Also, answer me this. If latency is so important to a games system, then why didnt MS go with 1866MHz DDR3 RAM? it has even lower latency than the 2133Mhz RAM they went with, since latency is obviously so myuch more important according to MS fanboys. Also people, we are talking nanosecond differences here. What's that going to translate into on a app on screen? half a sec? less? We are talking billionths of a second. Now stop spewing sh*t y'all know nothing about just because you's wanna defend your beloved MS.

And btw, anything that is that latency dependent can just be put into the CPU's cache (which btw is way faster still) anyway, as long as its not to big. And what are they going to put in the 32MB eSRAM? AA? how you gonna fit gigabytes worth of textures into a 32MB buffer.

But with all that said, I do believe that games will be developed for the lowest common denominator and therefore, we will barely notice a difference on multiplats. Unless Im wrong and devs give the PS4 version higher res or higher framerates, or more effects. But i doubt it, for the sake of parity, cuz you know the pople with the inferior version will whine about
AngryTypingGuy  +   374d ago
These debates are fun sometimes, but they do get old too. All this arguing when most games will look very close probably isn't worth it. The truth is, if the Xbox One is a little more powerful than the PS4 (doubt it), it's not going to make me want it more. I am choosing PS4 over the XB1 due to the games that appeal to me, the Instant Game Collection and all of the other little things that make up the whole experience. Will we see differences in some games, sure, but most will be close.
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nypifisel  +   374d ago
Yep, that post is frankly quite embarrassing, seeing how most of it is bullshit, anyone that has any clue about how computers function can spot this immediately - I would recommend everyone to actually read the replies in the thread after his post, they explain why Albert are spewing poop!
Death  +   374d ago
@dante

Way too much anger from someone talking about video games. Latency is not an issue with GPU's. That is true. GPU'sare not linear in the way they compute. This is why all the top cards use a gig or two of GDDR5. In a traditional PC setup GDDR5 is not good for the CPU since latency is an issue. CPU's run much more efficiently using DDR3. Neither console is setup like a traditional PC, they have a combo CPU/GPU that share memory pools. Sony choose GDDR5 and Microsoft went with DDR3. If they both accessed that memory the same way, the GDDR5 in the PS4 would be much faster due to the increased bandwidth as far as graphics go. We really have no idea how latency on the CPU side is going to be addressed. Microsoft choose to go with DDR3 with their pool. Great for CPU's but slower than GDDR5 for GPU's. They addressed this with the inclusion of eSram. They also included 8 gigs of flash memory and access the memory pool a little different than the PS4. It's a much more complex solution, but it addresses both sides of the CPU/GPU to maximize efficiency. We have yet to see how this translates to games. That is the job of the developers. They will exploit the strengths of each system.

As for your games are all about graphics rant, that couldn't be further from the truth. The Last of Us is the latest example of a triple a game we have on consoles. Graphically it is a very nice, but the story and execution are what make it great. A game that is pretty, but has no substance is a very hollow experience and not one remembered well.
strifeblade  +   374d ago
@Dante

Sorry dante, i guess if i do not spell imbecile correctly therefore i am one, not the hundreds of baseless comments i see from the fanboys next time i will spellcheck. Thankyou for contributing, truly enlightening.

The wii u is more powerful than current gen- 2 gb of ram more powerful gpu, and the cpu is held back by the tablet processing but its solid when compared to ps3/360. Some sources are conflicting. Most sources point it being on par or more powerful- it just has not translated to games (some multiplats look slightly better on wii u) since game engines are difficult to port to the wii u. Again u like to throw around baseless comments without support in an attempt to discredit me. Its pathetic that you cannot contest my points (they are facts) yet choose to get me on a spelling error and point out a wii u comment? Sorry i am not intersted in the wii u or if my info of is dated on the subject as ps4/x1 are my true interests and researched heavily into the matter.

Your not a hardware engineer so you are not fit to comment of the efficiecy of latency or lack there of. I stated the FACTS, you put the SPIN. If latency did not matter then why did sony take measures to reduce it? lol. at the end ddr3 is still faster and we have yet to see how that will translate into multiplats. Get it through your thick skull. We don't know anything for certain until they are out.
warczar  +   373d ago
@starchild

yeah, I'll believe carmack since he's made oh about 5 games his whole career that ended up on a foreign system. The guy's been a microsoft tool for years. Jesus, he even looks kinda like Bill Gates.
P0werVR  +   373d ago
@dantesparda

"And PowerVR, you obviously know even less than Nuke or Strife, geesh! its getting dumber in here."

Yeah buddy, nice one. So can you at least elaborate on that?!

Sorry for being too concise, don't want to make a mess with lil' fuzzy heads blowing up.

You calling the eSRAM a buffer or how lower latency is not a HUGE contribution of keeping the pipelines fed, is a huge indicator in how much you know (vewy little).

The eSRAM is more like a "scratchpad memory" built on chip making it very fast. Big advantage is you don't have to deal with latency issues with GPU/CPU RAM and bottleneck software implementations...BIG DEAL, since lower latency provides MORE "SUSTAINABLE" BANDWIDTH! Therefore keeping "pipelines fed".

So eSRAM is SUPERIOR to GDDR5 and GDDR3 for vital applications (textures) and why it points DIRECTLY at the GPU. Can you tell me otherwise?! I doubt it!

"And what are they going to put in the 32MB eSRAM? AA? how you gonna fit gigabytes worth of textures into a 32MB buffer."

See what I'm talking about?

That is why they have DMEs to compress and scale those "render to textures" and leave the main memory for whatever the hell developers can think of to add to. For those of you that don't know what that means...GENIUS DESIGN over BRUTE FORCE!

Don't you think they would have known better that GBs of data wouldn't fit into 32mbs of space. My goodness some of you are just a bunch of mooks on this site.

EDIT:

So yes, it is indeed about bandwidth. And since bandwidth has more so to do a lot with textures it is then textures that are important to solve and why Microsoft makes a huge deal about the eSRAM.

But again, it's also all about first party developers taking advantage of the hardware which are a few in many third party developers.

Features, features, features...features. Microsoft dominates features because they target casuals, not the easy consumers who are easily swayed by BS specs.

Also, how everyone miss the point of the silicon dies is either because they don't understand or they don't even want to consider it. The former more likely.
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Ginesis  +   373d ago
@stevehyphen FINALLY!!! Someone with some sense on this site. Everything you said...absolutely true. There's hope for N4G yet!
UltimateMaster  +   373d ago
Oh come on, what a useless debate.

Who really cares what numbers and what engine tool a system is going to have.

Both consoles' games look great and are very realistic.
I don't really see much of a difference between the 2 of them.

The real deciding factor is the games they will have and how good they are.
jimbobwahey  +   374d ago | Well said
If you look on NeoGAF, you'd see people are tearing Penello apart for trying to straight-up lie and deceive people, because the numbers and figures he's been quoting do not add up at all, and anybody with even the most simple and basic understanding of hardware knows that he's on a campaign of deceit.

Really, the guy is trying to spread as much misinformation about the Xbox One as possible to make it look good, and more and more people are calling him out on his nonsense now. Penello is in no way deserving of any respect whatsoever, it's actually rather disgusting that he's going to such great lengths to try and trick people.

Thankfully, the crowd he's trying it on with are ripping his lies apart.
devwan  +   374d ago
Exactly. The esram might well be read-write at the same time, but the best case scenario throughput figures they offer are not realistic in use, they are a theoretical maximum in utterly unrealistic real world conditions.
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vulcanproject  +   374d ago
At a very basic level he says their CPU is faster- does he know PS4's clockspeeds? He said he doesn't, only a couple weeks back.

This leads onto the claim Xbox one has a better sound chip, and takes more load off the CPU. He knows this because he knows much more about Sony's custom chipset with its secondary processor like he apparently knows their finalised clocks? HMMM!!!

He said that having 50 percent more CUs doesn't equate to 50 percent performance. Actually it generally does, because graphics tasks are incredibly parallel. For example a Radeon 7870 is twice the card as the 7770 on paper, and in gaming performance, unsurprisingly it is almost exactly twice as fast.... http://www.guru3d.com/artic...

He quoted the wrong peak bandwidth figured based on the old clocks of Xbox one (800mhz figure, not 853mhz figure)

He can't say if the eSRAM can ALWAYS read/write simultaneously. It probably can't.

But....yea. It goes on like this. We don't have good answers from them yet.
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kneon  +   374d ago
@vulcanproject

Even if their CPU is 10% faster he is ignoring the fact that their OSes plus hypervisor are going to eat up any CPU performance advantage the xb1 might have.
Clarence  +   374d ago
Your right. As I said earlier the PR for M$ have no idea how the xbone works. They make up numbers, and out right lie about the product they are trying to sell.

This is nothing new. M$ PR team have been tying to clean up this mess that they created since the announcement of the xbone.

They should be puking their guts out from all this spinning that their doing.
JamieL  +   374d ago
@ vulcanproject
I see what you're saying and I agree with you, what I don't understand is how this guy gets called out because he doesn't know all the details of the machines, but you have the full picture and all the details? Almost every PS zealot is in here stating he is dead wrong because he doesn't even know everything about the PS4, so I ask how the hell do all of you KNOW everything about both machines? If I understand your point it's, someone in the industry can't possible know or comment about the gap in power between the 2 consoles, but all these armchair warriors on N4G can, and have such a superior knowledge on these consoles, right?
How can you write a comment bashing him for not knowing all the facts when there is no way possible that you could either? It's like contradicting yourself in the same sentence. I know better than to expect anything else from the sad souls on this site, but it’s still hard for me to understand how anyone could miss this flaw in their arguments. I’m not saying this guy is right, but if he can have his facts this wrong while being an industry insider, and you get so mad about it you have to go on this PR bash mission, what make ya’ll so sure you’re right? It’s like a parent yelling at their child for being too loud. “STOP SCREAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
mediate-this  +   374d ago
@scott112

Where in the article did he blame sony. In fact penello said he is not disparaging sony in any way. He is trying to clear up misinformation about the two consoles.

Yes he is p.r, but every company has p.r, you guys should just relax, will only time will time, and that is about two and a half months time.
jmc8888  +   374d ago
Maybe the guy is thinking it's the 1990's, but sound cards don't offload much of anything anymore.

There USED to be a time where having a sound card would make a difference, those days have long since past. 1/20th of a percent, of a single core in a multi-core setup...woo hoo.

Most people would realize that the more hoops you make developers go through, the less likely devs will jump through them. It's going to be more difficult and time consuming to code games for the Xbox One. Unless the dev takes the time, and the time to do it well, they are severely crippled with bandwidth on the xbox one. They're asking all the devs to put significantly more time coding a game just to be able to access the lionshare of it's bandwidth.

Some won't bother with it and just code for the DDR3 bandwidth, some won't be able to, some won't do it well. The Xbox One eSRAM is like PS3's cell. Not quite the complexity, but extra work that will negatively impact games when it doesn't go as planned on most games whereas the PS4 game bypasses the entire problem and all of this focus can go to other areas.

What most people should expect is the GDDR5 bandwidth will easily and always be available whereas it's a real chore and a bunch of extra legwork to maybe achieve a similar level or so bandwidth.

So imagine if the 360 had the PS3's cell coding problem, and the PS3 had the ease of coding of the 360. The answer would be Uncharted 3 and TLOU, etc type games would be the norm for the PS3, and the 360's games would look like CoD 24/7.

Because that's the setup you basically have now. Easier and stronger, versus harder and weaker (and more expensive).
nukeitall  +   374d ago
@JamieL:

"I see what you're saying and I agree with you, what I don't understand is how this guy gets called out because he doesn't know all the details of the machines, but you have the full picture and all the details?"

I was about to say this. Penello is the guy to know more than anyone on this forum. Yet people on this forum knows more and is convinced the PS4 is sooo much more powerful taking it as truth when the news swing in that direction!

Once the opposite is said from a well known source that the Xbox One holds it's own, it is disproven by simply saying nobody, but Sony knows what is in their console.

Oh, the irony!!!
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Baka-akaB  +   374d ago
Sounds more like you read the Vulcan's argument however you want .

Not getting in the middle on who's right or not , i have of course my opinion but it's getting silly and pointless .

However Vulcan was telling you "At a very basic level he says their CPU is faster- does he know PS4's clockspeeds? He said he doesn't, only a couple weeks back."

Vulcan says that when convenient he doesnt know the specs , and yet claim some advantage over an hardware , he just said he doesnt know about .

That's not convincing at all .

"Penello is the guy to know more than anyone on this forum."

Pure B.S there . He himself backed into a corner had to admits he'll need to check some infos and come back at some folks later on , with or without support from tech staff .

He's a PR staff , and a beotian when it comes to those subjects , compared to a select few posters that are massively into such tech ... because of their passion or work .

While its still a fanboy haven for all factions . Stop trying to pass gaf as a comedy central like n4g . It's a community with its issues , but also professionnals from various fields . Plenty are easily pro xbox , or vastly prefer a PC as well , there just isnt no easy way to pull some wool and PR BS over their eyes .
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Jazz4108  +   374d ago
It nonone knows these specs from sony then where are the fanbiys getting there specs?
vulcanproject  +   374d ago
Unfortunately JamieL you fell into the trap of not reading what I wrote correctly. Why try and spin my comment to say that I don't know everything about the machine and use that as an argument against me when all I did was clearly outline the points where his post was flawed, and we KNOW it to be flawed.

I don't know PS4's clocks for sure, do you? Neither does Penello as HE said as much.

Yet here he is claiming more CPU performance. You think that ISN'T something he should be criticised for???? You think we should just nod and agree and not point out a rather horrible flaw in his reasoning????

If he can't get his own stats right about memory bandwidth? Thats not a mystery, or secret voodoo spec, thats just simple maths he failed to cite correctly.

This is just one example of his 'work' on Neogaf.

I can't help it if you can't see the wood from the trees, Penello claimed a bunch of stuff he either admitted he knows nothing about or is KNOWN to be inaccurate (See the difference much??) and thus opens himself up to major criticism from me (and a host of people on Neogaf.)

I have no clue why you think what I wrote was hypocritical. If you can point out what I specifically said that claims something about the machine in this post or something that is factually incorrect then go nuts and point it out.

Unfortunately for you, there was nothing there. At least read replies properly instead of inventing something in your mind.

There is damn good reason to rubbish what he has claimed, between the FACT that he admitted to not knowing about Sony's hardware and the FACT that he writes incorrect bandwidth figures you'll still lap up what he says?

More fool you.
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JamieL  +   374d ago
Ok vulcanproject I guess I “misread” this,

“because he knows much more about Sony's custom chipset with its secondary processor like he apparently knows their finalized clocks”

You know what it is? Sure he doesn’t know that, but you don’t know it either, and you don’t “know” what exactly the XB1’s parts are capable of. None of us do.

Then this “He can't say if the eSRAM can ALWAYS read/write simultaneously. It probably can't.” Biggest part and I do agree you kind of covered your ass with “It probably can't”. You don’t KNOW it can’t, but the rest of your tone sure seems to be so positive about itself.

This is my point; I don’t care if everything out of his mouth is wrong. He doesn’t have all the facts period. I get that, but none of us know everything about both systems, and we won’t until they both come out and SHOW us what they can do. I just don’t see how anyone can bash him for coming with talk when he doesn’t have all/the right facts, when they come with the same PR bull$hit from the other side like they have all the facts. Like I said it’s HYPOCRITICAL, no matter how much lipstick you put on that pig.
vulcanproject  +   374d ago | Well said
"You know what it is? Sure he doesn’t know that, but you don’t know it either, and you don’t “know” what exactly the XB1’s parts are capable of. None of us do. "

Errr wasn't that the POINT OF MY POST? Glad you finally read it.

Penello can be an engineering genius who knows every transistor on Xbox one, but when he admits to not knowing PS4's CPU or sound capabilities but then claims Xbone is better and faster there we should sit there and lap that up???

Its not hypocritical if I 'cover myself.' Thats called understanding I can't know all the facts and edging on the side of caution, something he didn't do. I wasn't the one claiming a bunch of nonsense like Penello so easily dismantled.

I admitted I don't know PS4's CPU clockspeeds much as Penello doesn't, but I wasn't the one claiming Xbox one's CPU is faster than PS4's.

No, it was him claiming things he admits to not knowing. He was the one opening himself up to criticism if he was wrong, not me.

Thats because he is clearly a mouthpiece and not a technical guy and they weren't his notes.

How on earth you think thats hypocritical of me? Please, go get yourself a dictionary and look it up. Read carefully the finer points of the English language. Then come and explain again.

You are saying we can't bash him even if he doesn't know the facts and makes spurious claims because nobody knows everything about the systems.

I doubt anyone can ever know everything about these systems. At what point are we allowed to criticise someone?

So you're saying he should be protected because of his ignorance even when he puts out horribly flawed claims? Again. More fool you.

God forbid you claiming all earth's oceans are red with purple stripes and me saying hang on, they aren't.

No doubt I'll be accused of 'hypocrisy' because I can't possibly know everything about the oceans. Kinda besides the point huh?
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waltercross  +   374d ago
@ vulcanproject

Well said
shutUpAndTakeMyMoney   374d ago | Trolling | show
devwan  +   374d ago
@Septic Fair enough to a point, but he should never have gone there in the first place as he has about as much technical understanding of those figures as all the armchair techsperts out there - ie very little.

I believe there's a 30%-50% raw graphics processing power disparity between the machines and that there are ways and means for the xbox one to compete and also that 3rd parties will set the bar suitably low to ensure parity. but I base that on the full extent of my technical understanding of both architectures which is likely equivalent to Panello's - ie none whatsoever.

He doesn't know exactly what is inside the Sony box, he has his own engineers giving him numbers and putting that in the context of the specs they have regarding the ps4 - specs that Sony themselves have not publicly divulged for an architecture only Sony engineers have the equivalent understanding of his own experts.

November will come and the truth might come out but before then, whatever further details his experts provide him with, I hope they present it themselves and put in into real-world context with real-time demonstrations not "on-paper" statistics that prove nothing.
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Septic  +   374d ago
I agree. He needs to back up what he's saying or more importantly, the engineers need to step in instead of him.
2cents  +   374d ago
Well said septic!

Alas it will mostly fall on deaf ears on N4G. We will see the real outcome of what both these consoles equate to on screen when they launch and we have some good exclusive games to look at and compare.

It's already ingrained into the Sony masses that they are the superior race, not even factual information could change the stubborn minds to look at things with an open mind.

I'm glad penello has taken the time to clarify these points.
Angeljuice  +   374d ago
He hasn't clarified anything, he made some claims that were questioned with regards to their accuracy, to which he effectively replied "wait there whilst I go and ask someone who knows what they're talking about". Please, follow links in future before calling something a "fact".
You criticize people for doing exactly what you yourself do!
devwan  +   374d ago
@2cents That's unfair. It's not about being a "superior race" it's about getting to the truth through a set of figures that don't look realistic - which makes the Microsoft PR guy Panello look like he's attempting to pull the wool over people's eyes.

You can't blame Sony and ps4 fans for believing their chosen format is more powerful when the numbers we've had over the past 6 months point to exactly that, when developers give little hints to the same conclusion and then they see Panello offering "iffy" unrealistic bandwidth figures in an attempt to prove otherwise.

In his own words on GAF, he asked if a single-figure frame rate disadvantage for Xbox One would be enough to justify his claims. He states that 50% is not the way it is, that's it's much closer, but he's also asking to be let off the hook if DF find there's up to a 9fps shortfall between One and ps4... now if a game is targeting 30fps, that's potentially a huge difference of one third.
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Kayant  +   374d ago
He can't really clarify anything because he's using the leaked specs which quite accurate for both consoles but from what we have seen MS has done improves in terms of upclocks to GPU/CPU and their API. He doesn't know what changes could have been made on Sony's side since the leak so he can't be truly sure that Sony don't have some *secret sauce* that could make the upclocks made to XB1 recently irrelevant. Just like we don't know all the details on XB1.

So the only people that can clarify anything are thrid-party devs that work on both hardware because there is no bias.
Clarence  +   374d ago
@2cents

It's not just N4G but other tech sites are stating that what Albert is saying is not true. To be honest the techies are ripping his bullet points apart.

This guy is just a talking head like Larry. If anything the deaf ears are xbone fans.

All the facts are laid out in front of you all, yet you still believe otherwise.
M$ have been caught lying about the xbone over and over, but you all still say otherwise.

It's fine that xbone is your console of choice, but don't sit here and say that the Sony masses are not looking at the factual information.

The factual information states that PS4 is more powerful. That's a fact.

Xbone fans are the stubborn ones.
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harrisk954  +   374d ago
@2cents

The one thing about GAF is that many people on the site are tech experts, engineers, etc.

So, you may want to do yourself a favor before taking what Penello has to say at face value, because they are shredding him on the GAF thread and totally deconstructing the post that he put on there. I am not a techie, and I defer to those who have knowledge that I don't. The VAST MAJORITY on GAF are ripping this apart and explaining why Penello is wrong, misleading and being completely disingenuous (or flat out lying).

I don't know how this all turns out in regard to the games, but unless you (and some of the other MS apologists on this site) are engineers and can explain how Penello is right, I suggest you check out the GAF thread...

Seriously it is a good read.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
2cents  +   374d ago
@Angeljuice

Just calm it down man, I commented on penello's first statement, not the 26 pages of too and fro that came after, as the article posted here is about that particular comment. Its not the end all and be all to this console war, no, its a statement to highlight that the xbox is not as weak as many people like to make out, and that some respect should be given to the talented people who have worked to develop the xbox one. Ive never once said that the xbox is more powerful, or that it is a better console so I dont know what your accusing me of.

@Devwan

There is nothing fair about what has happened since feb. I seem to have to say this all the time, I am a sony supporter just as I am an xbox supporter. Bottom line, Sony is sitting pretty and doesnt require any type of defence as they are clearly superior in their specifications. The issue here is that the majority of Sony supporters go to great lenghts to rubbish anything to do with xbox. Which is why we are in a situation where even MS has taken to comment on places like neogaf and reddit to just try to reduce the amount of crap that is being touted as solid fact. I dont for one second claim I know the ins and outs of the consoles, I can only go on what I read, and most of it is utter shite. So I have commented that its nice to hear from penello trying to clarify some information, but its by no means the whole story.

@Kayant

That is very true, and I agree with what you say. which is why in my original comment I also stated "We will see the real outcome of what both these consoles equate to on screen when they launch and we have some good exclusive games to look at and compare." Im only interested in knowing the truth, and either way I know the PS4 will be more powerful, the question is by how much and is the difference noticeable enough to declare a clear and unchallengeable winner. I dont mind the results as im getting both, but its still nice to know.

@Clarence
Consoles are my console of choice. BOTH! not one. I own PSX, PS2, PS3, Vita, Xbox, Xbox 360, N64, Wii, DS, 3DS, Crazy Powerful PC built by myself, I am a gamer by the very definition of the word. I dont like the attitude of the hardcore fanboys on both sides, they make it hard to be happy about this new generation.
Its plain and simple that the xbox is not as powerful as the PS4. But when we are playing these consoles at home in a few months, the last thing we are going to be thinking about is memory bandwidth and compute units, sheesh. We are going to be game-gasming! Thats what its all about isnt it?

I can only make comments on my own personal experience of the last few months and for me, I have seen a vicious attack on all things Xbox, and I have had some unbelievably nast PM's from Sony Twats, just for expressing some excitement for the xbox. Yet I have also made many positive comments about the PS4 and not a single attack has come my way from any Xbots. So my personal experience has shown that the Sony fanboys (not fans)are far more aggressive and vile in nature, and unfortunately give many of you guys a bad name, which isnt right. Whats worse is though, if you choose to defend those idiots, because then its very hard to separate the fans from the fanboys.

Again, just to clarify, I have no hate or malice towards Sony, or fans that have personal preference towards only them. same with the xbox side of things.
mediate-this  +   374d ago
Is that how you look at it. We are a race of people now?? Really?? Sony has a race of people now?

What are they called? The Sonians??
starchild  +   374d ago
@2cents

Bravo!!! If I could give you ten bubbles, I would. Nearly everything you said was very similar to my own feelings and what I have experienced.

I'm a PC guy mostly, but I own a PS3 and an Xbox 360 (and my girlfriend owns a Wii). Even though I mostly game on the PC and the PS3 is my most played console, I still find myself often defending the 360 and Wii simply due to the overwhelming pro-Sony bias (and bashing of everything else) that plagues this site and others.

If I say something positive about a Sony console or game I have almost never been attacked by a Nintendo or Xbox fanboy. On the other hand if I say something positive about the PC, Xbox, or Wii I am almost always attacked by Sony fanboys and told how much better the Sony console and games are.

The bias and irrationality is astounding. And frankly I'm getting tired of all the Microsoft and Xbox One bashing, even though I currently don't plan to get an Xbox One. It's completely out of proportion and is largely fueled by rampant fanboyism.

The arrogance Sony fanboys exude with regard to the PS4 specs is unjustified. Past Sony consoles have never been the most powerful consoles of their respective generations. PS1 and PS2 were weaker than competing consoles, and PS3 was more or less tied with Xbox 360. And compared to high end PCs the PS4 is always going to be way behind. I don't know why they think the PS4 specs suddenly make everything else suck.

Anyway, I really like the PS3 and the PS4 looks even better. I just wish Sony fanboys weren't such overzealous jerks (not all, but many). They are poisoning the gaming landscape. I almost can't stand to go to gaming sites any more.

It sometimes makes me wish someone like Apple would make a console and smash the Playstation brand into oblivion just to see these fanboys get their comeuppance, but that fantasy passes as I think about how much I have enjoyed my PS1, PS2 and PS3. Sony does a lot of good in the gaming industry and the PS4 is going to be fantastic. Too bad I can't say the same thing for much of the fanbase.
Animal Mutha 76  +   374d ago
I agree Septic and well put. The raw numbers favor Sony but there is more to both machines than we yet know so to make a pre judgement based on the limited facts available is illogical. I'm keeping an open mind on both machines capabilities.

And the thing is he's not being a cock about it or dissing Sony, he's just trying to explain in a professional way that we shouldn't jump to conclusions. I actually like the fact that he has been so approachable especially in the face of some of the morons who probably grief him based on ignorance and an incomplete set of facts.

None of us KNOW for sure yet so lets not be bell ends about it (allformats). Guys like Cerny and Penello are doing us a service in talking so much. Yes they are both representing competing products but they do it with respect. I don't think hes trying to make X1 look better just educate the mob that you should wait and see.

If he is a liar then that will come out when the consoles launch and they are examined. To call him or Cerny or anyone a liar at this stage is irrational and leaves yourself open to ridicule should they be proven right.

GAF, N4G and many other sites are full of people who are too ready to judge, insult and condemn anyone who considers an alternative viewpoint or that might want to have an open mind until the evidence is fully presented. I sometimes wonder why any of these execs bother for all the good it does them.

I myself will take everything that comes out of both companies on advisement until their claims are proven, but I won't chastise them for it.

As an older gamer I have seen many examples of bluff, over promising and down right fabrication about products. Sony and MS are both guilty of this historically. Perhaps some of the die hard Sony and MS fans on here should step back and remember that..
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christocolus  +   374d ago
totally agree with you and septic...let the consoles come out so we can see the games and judge.i believe the games will speak for themselves..... but im curious to see what the top graphics engineers have to say about this....that aside i actually like the guy...mehdi and larry dont care anymore about all this bias and ignorant comments...people need to learn patience.........i just wanna play games.
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christocolus  +   374d ago
sorry double post...
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christocolus  +   374d ago
lmao.....
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Dlacy13g  +   374d ago
A reasonable response that sadly most can't or won't embrace due to a certain mindset that persists on sites of like N4G.
LordDhampire  +   374d ago
Yeah, but Id wish microsoft would just shut up, putting out all these interviews and tweets just confirms peoples rumors and that microsoft is worried about it, if they would just keep quiet then people could just speculate all day until the consoles come out because as it stands xbox has the best looking game with rise

I dont like people trying to confuse people with all this mumbo jumbo
Blaze929  +   374d ago
consumers bad mouth a product before launch to the point where it's getting out of hand and could affect sales. Because the "casual" user 'hears' "50% more powerful" while 'seeing' a $100 cheaper product and you want that company to stay quiet about it 'until' it comes out?

Dat logic
LordDhampire  +   374d ago
casual users dont browse n4g for articles or the internet in general for articles on consoles, The only users who do that are the ones who already know which console they are getting or want to get

Dat Blaze logic
TheTwelve  +   374d ago
Sorry Septic but it's just a repeat of what Nelson tried to do in the beginning of last gen:

http://majornelson.com/2005...

Sounding "frank" and "down to earth" is all well and good but the hardware differences are obvious.

Penello is toeing the line for his company, doing what he's supposed to do, but we have the ability to think for ourselves.
IcicleTrepan  +   374d ago
Do you know why he's adding the two together in this case? This came not from Albert but from one of the top engineers involved in making the Xbox One.

Here's an amazing thought for you brainiacs. What if both memory pools can send data to the GPU at the same time? The diagrams from Hotchipz would appear to support this.

I think a lot of people seem to forget this is a highly CUSTOMized piece of hardware and is not your PC at home. The same rules don't apply. Despite what people think, no you do not know more about how this hardware works than the people that made it.
n4rc  +   374d ago
No it isn't... You choose to believe fanboy logic as if they are engineers..

The guy says something people don't like... So people try to spin it as lies.. Hes naturally in less of a position to know wtf he's talking about then some kids on n4g or gaf

Hes not saying anything abouy ps4.. Hes explaing how people are confused about how these systems operate.. Thanks to the smear campaign some have taken upon themselves to pursue
badz149  +   374d ago
@IcicleTrepan

"What if both memory pools can send data to the GPU at the same time?"

Seriously dude...just STOP! You're saying that the small amount of fast eSRAM alongside the DDR3 will enable the DDR3 to achieved 200+ Gbps speed due to optimization? There's no optimization in the world that can increase the speed of DDR3 to that level, not even overclocking.

It's like setting up SLi or crossfire or pc RAM. You don't pair the weaker card with a strong card as it's a waste of the power available on the stronger card. Simply said... in terms of hardware performance, 1+2 =/= 3!
Muerte2494  +   374d ago
Some might mistaken that for arrogance. I don't know if you read his "DirectX" comments. OpenGL is faster and more optimized than DirectX. As far as transparency, is this why they fired Adam Orth when he revealed that the "always online" rumor was true? If you're only buying one or the other none of this matters.
IcicleTrepan  +   374d ago
So if DirectX is always slower and less optimized, why do most companies use it?
CrimsonSquall  +   373d ago
@IcicleTrepan DX has been the standard forever as its from Microsoft, the worlds leading OS builder
torchic  +   374d ago
what I have a problem with is, Penello seems to insinuate that Microsoft are the only ones who tweaked their parts. how "their" hardware/software engineers are the bees-knees, able to minimalise a significant performance divide through tweaks, tweaks and more tweaks. unlike Sony, their marvelous engineers took the off-shelf parts and tweaked them, instead of shoving everything together then calling it a day.

of course Sony engineers customised the initial hardware. Cerny has said it multple times especially concerning the GPU, which coming into the generation was seen as the most important piece of architecture. his CPU and tweak talk is useless when the GPU divide is THAT great.

his condescending tone regarding Sony engineers is what irks me most, especially considering Sony birthed the PS3.

most disappointing though is his 1st grader addition of memory bandwidth.
Blaze929  +   374d ago
I just don't really get why people think this for some reason matters this gen. Even if it was true - which seriously, come on, 50%? - you won't be seeing this from any games that are PS4 exclusive and on top of that, probably first-party.

Multiplatforms, you all REALLY think you will be seeing a 50% performance difference in Xbox One vs PS4 games? Ok. Because the past three generations have taught us nothing. Clearly.

lol i mean seriously...50%? FIFTY? *Ed lover voice* C'mon son

Disagree but don't reply - i don't mind.
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DEEBO  +   374d ago
it hurt's doesn't it? to see sony beat MS time&time again.they lose to sony every generation.
ps2 beat the xbox(sales not graphics)
ps3 beat the 360 with a year lead(sales&graphics)
now the ps4 is set to beat the x1 again in both categories.MS thought their money could bring them a win but still hasn't happen.this is like their third try.you are a diehard MS fan so no matter what people tell you,you're wouldn't believe it.bill gates himself can tell you the ps4 has the better specs but it will go in one ear and out the other.
-Foxtrot  +   374d ago
You see I want them to use that 50% on multiplatform games. MS is in a tight spot at the minute and I'm sorry but they don't hold s*** of developers at the minute.

For EXAMPLE

If Bethesda turned round to MS and said

"Look we can do more on the PS4 and thats what we are going to do, the PS4 version will be better then the version on your consoles since you don't have the edge like Sony"

Microsft could turn around and say

"Well your putting your game on our system if thats the case"

Like they said they would but COME ON, it's FALLOUT 4, like any AAA game do you really think MS would turn them down.

Seriously some big developers have the advantage here to do what they want, I wish they'd realise that.
THamm  +   374d ago
Everytime they mention Kinect, it drops my desire fully
harrisk954  +   374d ago
"Penello also believes that his team often gets "little credit" for the progress it's made on its software, and says that having "some of the smartest graphics engineers" on board for Xbox One is "overlooked when evaluating both boxes"."

If MS has "some of the smartest graphics engineers" then explain why nothing on the Xbox 360 looks as good as God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us, etc.
mediate-this  +   374d ago
Micro does have smart engineers, and i think your talking devs, micros engineers are the guys who brought dx, and a whole other slew of micro owned tech to the table.

Now naughty dog, santa monica, are developers using art work and tools to make great games like the ones you mentioned. People say 360 had the better gpu and ps3 had the better cpu, and multis looked and performed a little better on 360.

With that being said, if naughtydog worked for micro you think they could make a great game on 360? I think iy boils down to the dev more then the tech in ps3 vs360
gamer2013  +   374d ago
Not one of them games that you mentioned are graphically consistent throughout due to hardware limitations so you're argument is irrelevant. Developers have clearly stated that the only differences between the 360 and PS3 are the trade-offs and which are preferred most. If those games were made for the 360 they would look the same. Grow up.
ZodTheRipper  +   374d ago
PS4 is about games, X1 is about entertainment. PS4 will outperform X1 in terms of gaming just like this gen - quality and quantity-wise ...that's all I care about.
gamer2013  +   374d ago
At the beginning of last generation Sony touted the PS3 as an "all in one" system. That's a fact that you're probably not old enough to remember, which would explain you're ignorance. The 360 also has a much larger overall library of games than the PS3 due to being released a year earlier. Most people on this site live in a bubble when it comes to truth because they are scared of it. They don't want to know that something else may be comparable or better than what mommy and daddy bought them.
Mithan  +   374d ago
The 50% is bullshit, so was the 30%.

Most gamers are stupid about underlying technology and most of the retards on this site are 18 and just repeate what they see.
SpitFireAce85  +   374d ago
Spoken like a intelligent grown up... s/
otherZinc  +   374d ago
@allformats,

Since the PS4 is 50% more powerful than XBOX ONE, why does the PS4 not have a game running 1080p "native" @60fps at launch?
XBOX ONE does; Forza 5.
Whitefire  +   374d ago
Driveclub: http://a.pomf.se/5Cj7.gif
This is Sony's premier racer at launch, running at 30 FPS, targeting 60. Why is that? Real time lighting, and a heavy emphasis on realistic lighting and textures. Everything looks more down to earth and lifelike. Look at the reflections and how the individual leaves show up in the shadows. Lighting can change dynamically.

Forza: http://a.pomf.se/3El1.gif
Microsoft's premier racing launch game, uses fake lighting and blurry textures to achieve 60 FPS. The lighting can't change because each car has the lighting baked into the car model freeing up resources. Also everything looks like a toy.
Mithan  +   374d ago
Because it isn't.
ABizzel1  +   374d ago
I'd like to bring up a quote that M$ has been using, and see if it applies here.

"We don't know their hardware development process, and they don't know ours."

Then where do these numbers come from?
ShwankyShpanky  +   374d ago
Good question. One that Gaf put to Penello repeatedly after he made his claims in regards to relative performance. He claims MS has a faster CPU, but Sony hasn't disclosed their CPU clock. He claims they have a better audio chip, but Sony hasn't disclosed details on their audio chip. And when people ask him how he knows Sony's clock, how he's able to make that comparison, he totally ignores the question.

He's there for damage control, not any kind of real discussion.
mistertwoturbo  +   374d ago
What I'm getting from Penello is that he's admitting the PS4 is more powerful, but he's just trying to say that it's not 30-50% more powerful.

Honestly it doesn't really matter.

What matters is Naughty Dog + PS4 = Deal with it
NextGen24Gamer  +   374d ago
Microsoft has been slowly moving themselves into sonygaf.. only right as to give clear info to the miss informed. You will see all this come together by the 30th. The wording Albert has used in explaining the dgpu is correct ... there is no single discrete gpu. As its all on the main single chip.

And the components are split into two. That is also why there are three gpu blocks on the hotchip slides.

grafix processer 1 = 1.95 tflops = orange square( Likely 2 DPUs working together with a cpu core or two to manage 1 probably for physics 1 for straight grafix)

Graffix processer 2 = gpgpu = 1.31 tflops = pink square (jag cores working with 12 cus for gpgpu in main soc)

Graffix processer 3 = 1 tflop= yellow square (Likely 2 more DPUs(dedicated Processing Units) working together, one for 1 rendering 1 for shading, also working with some cpu for management)

http://semiaccurate.com/201...

If you click the link, you can see there are 3 parts of the Graphics Processor. It's literally right in front of our eyes, it just hasn't been explained due to the NDA.

And this deep down tech = stereo driver. They are just wording things differently as to have impact.
#1.20 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(15) | Report | Reply
ShwankyShpanky  +   374d ago
Please take that ridiculous noise over to Gaf. Please. I mean, the Panello thread is already a gloriously entertaining train wreck, and I think adding another horse's caboose could only enhance that.

http://i.minus.com/ilERlIua...
#1.20.1 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(2) | Report
edgeofsins  +   370d ago
Putting 3 GPU's within the same chip for one wouldn't make them 3 GPU's; they would all be one GPU. So when they say GPU they only have one they are talking about. That whole diagram in the picture shows only one GPU because it all adds up to only that.

The overall performance of the GPU stays at 1.31 TFlops. There are no other GPU's and if they were they wouldn't be on the same chip, because being on the same GPU chip means they aren't separate GPU's.

Now you are making up that the extra GPU's might be made of 2 DPU's each. Why do you think that the picture only shows one block for those units? Because each is only one processing unit. Just because they are bigger blocks does not mean they are standalone GPU's.

You try to tell us there is a dGPU, that gets debunked by Microsoft itself and then you say they said that so they can reword the term. If I say I didn't shut the door to my room are you going to take that as me rewording that I did shut the door but I even locked the door and put a doorstop underneath? Because X1 has one gpu, you lied about it having 2, one being the dGPU, the other being it's only actual GPU, and now lie that it has 3 when that picture proves it doesn't because that is one GPU. The whole picture makes one GPU.
abusador  +   374d ago
Give respect? Dont have to give respect to any company who week after week, month after month continue to put pr spins on everything they hear or know is weaker on their console. You really think Penello is any diff. from any other Ms person? They get paid to cast Microsoft in a favorable light, even if it means spinning things and lying. Its just disgusting how ms gets down! "Continued belief" it isnt a continued belief it is fact that statement alone is a pr spin alluding to the fact that their might not be a hardware, spec diff. in terms of power when everyone, including Microsoft knows there is. The GPU has been disclosed, ram, cpu, etc...... and Ps4 is a more powerful system. What you think that miniscule overclocking made a big difference? That doesnt change the hardware.

I dont care whos talking for Microsoft, they are a company of illusions, lies and bs.
Diver  +   374d ago
Really bad marketing move. GAF will rip his talking points and ms will be worse off.
ShwankyShpanky  +   374d ago
That's basically what they're telling him over there. They're straight up telling him that MS just needs to give up the ghost on trying to conjure superior specs out of misleadingly combined memory bandwidths and chicken blood, concede that they have the weaker box (or just drop the subject entirely), and focus on other selling points.
culpepper516  +   374d ago
one thing Penello doesnt talk about is the amount of ESRAM. he states that it has a higher bandwidth than GDDR5 but what he doesnt say is that xbox has 8gb of 68gb/sec and 32 mb of 204 gb/sec. ps4 has 8gb of 176gbps. im no computer wiz but doesnt that make a world of difference?
ShwankyShpanky  +   374d ago
Problem is, when challenged on his figures and claims, Panello basically said "we have really smart people working on the Xbone, and I asked one of the really smart people, and they said it was true."

Panello's version of "disclosure and transparency" is to say (as one Gaffer amusingly put it) "I know a wizard." Panello couldn't even answer a relatively simple question regarding his claims that a 6% increase in CU clock equates to more than a 6% gain in GPU performance, but then claiming that having 50% more CUs doesn't equate to a 50% increase in performance.

There are industry people on Gaf that know their shit, and some of his claims don't even require much technical knowledge to debunk, basic maths alone uncovers some flaws. He's trying to blow smoke up the wrong ass. If he wants to spin BS to the technically uninformed, he'd have better luck here.
xxchicago33xx  +   374d ago
I love console wars!!!!

People have a really hard time discerning the difference between someone being genuine and someone trying to sell them something. Albert Penello is not your friend...he's just a guy hocking a product...just like Shuhei Yoshida is a guy hocking a product.

Here's a crazy idea...if you are pleased with a system's specs and game lineup then buy it...who cares what a bunch of random people you will never meet think about your purchase decisions.

Nothing brings the 14 year old rageaholic out of this 30 year old body quite like an old fashioned blinded console war! RAGE!!!!!
Megaton  +   374d ago
He often uses the same copy/paste PR lines as Major Nelson. He's merely subtle PR. If you can't see that, well then you're their target audience, and I've got a great deal on some oceanfront property in Nebraska to tell you about.
Gamer1982  +   374d ago
Hmm who to believe MS the console manufacturer or numerous developers? Who has the most to gain/lose here? Developers have ZERO to gain by saying PS4 is 30/40/50% more powerful yet MS have it all to lose. That for me is enough to show who is telling the truth. Whats the point in lying if you have nothing to gain from it? Whats the point in telling the truth if you having everything to lose?
AlphaTauri  +   374d ago
yeah it was a great post by Albert, and some nice details in how the One is set up.
PSN_ZeroOnyx  +   374d ago
I think the author is smoking crack

And he failed to mention that the esRAM is only 32 megs at high speed which isn't much at all
Forza   374d ago | Spam
bobtheimpaler  +   374d ago
ROFL. Major Nelson and Penello are worse than used car sales men.

You don't go trusting sources who have a clear vested interest especially when third party developers and trusted enthusiasts have torn it down.

This is getting worse than when they released that paper on the 360's performance and just added all the cores together lol.

They're just making themselves look bad by taking their fans for fools. Just enjoy the games if you want.
#1.31 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
soljah  +   374d ago
septic if you are not a ms schill/employee then you good sir are one misinformed gamer
trancefreak  +   374d ago
Bwhaha Microsoft PR goons speak out of a septic mouth. 1st why is Microsoft having these guys speak on behalf of the spec design. Its really not their job but MS doesn't seem to get it. I know what they are doing; anything they can to get the playing field more equal. Ramping up support to attract more Xbox 1 consumers. I can't blame them but their bosses shouldn't put them in this type of scenario IMO.

I seriously would prefer if Major Nelson Staid out of all the debating and just focused on the immediate community by keeping it much more simple. Example being hyped with the shipments going out, being hyped on nex gen Xbox One; assist consumers who need assistance in understanding the new console etc. I don't think he is naturally suited to talk as a leader of the Xbox one spec list break down. Handle what you do best and that is PR.

Let the core architects team do the presentations. This will keep Major Nelson out of the middle of mis information and inconsistencies that get people either confused or engulfed into raging fan wars.

Let MS console engineers demonstrate the architectural strengths and features. I don't need theoretical hyperbole ATM from the PR department.

Wish I had some reference Quotes and links of Microsoft's BS but I don't have time ATM and really don't care.

I bought a PS4 will see how the Xbone turns out because in all honestly, I will own both at one point. I just can't stand all this public relations theoretical junk.
We will see when the games start dropping and how both consoles handle over time. Lots of new features to explore And the PS4 will take the crown of Next Gen IMO.

I know my comment kinda sucks but, I shot from the hip on this one so Peace out.
Ritsujun  +   374d ago
Dat AlPert.
#1.34 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Dee_Cazo  +   374d ago
You deserve all these disagrees for clearly stating an intelligent opinion. Why try to explain this to the 13 year olds on here.

I say 13 year olds because I am really terrified of how old some of these people must be and still act this way.
Liefx  +   373d ago
Why the hell are you being Disagreed?!?! What you said is perfectly put, you weren't defending or attacking, simply stating an objective view.

I'm a Sony guy, but sometimes N4G irks me to no end at how prevalent the fanboys here are.
Dee_Cazo  +   373d ago
There is nothing to gain by attacking a brand you don't support. It has single-handedly ruined this website.
Epic_Troy  +   373d ago
Daaammmnnnn eat that sony fanboys hahahahahaha
Ritsujun  +   373d ago
LOL@epictroll
Dazel  +   373d ago
This is all no more than virtual willy waving, everyone knows it's what you do with it that makes the difference

"So say the man with the small dick"
majiebeast  +   374d ago | Well said
The math doesnt add up and he has been called out on that and even got warned by a mod.

This is the thread in question it turns pretty ugly when Penello goes into PR mode.

He came on Neogaf to damage control. Just like he and Nelson do on reddit, except on Neogaf they arent as gullible, to believe everything they say. So its backfiring quite a bit and only has the opposite effect.

They should focus on what makes their console unique like kinect, cause the PS4 has it beat in the specs department.

X1 GPU

768 GCN shader cores with 853MHz
48 TMUs
16 ROPs
1.31 TFLOPS
40.9 GTex/s
13.6 GPix/s
8GB DDR3 with 68GB/s + eSRAM voodoo
2 compute command processors
something between 2 and 16 parallel compute queues
GPU cache bypass: no

PS4 GPU:

1152 GCN shader cores with 800MHz
72 TMUs
32 ROPs
1.84 TFLOPS
57.6 GTex/s
25.6 GPix/s
8GB GDDR5 with 176GB/s
8 compute command processors
64 parallel compute queues
GPU cache bypass: yes
#2 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(69) | Disagree(11) | Report | Reply
iamnsuperman  +   374d ago
Could you like the exact bit. Is it this bit "Albert, I just don't understand how you have the details on Sony's hardware to make these statements. What am I missing?"

The way Neogaf is laid out means you could be spending an eternity finding stuff
#2.1 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(12) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
mistertwoturbo  +   374d ago
Actually the details on Sony's hardware has been public for quite some time now.

However, it's still not even the finalized specs. We don't know the final CPU speed if it is 1.6ghz or greater, and we don't know the final GPU speed.
majiebeast  +   374d ago
Sorry removed the link by accident here it is.

http://neogaf.com/forum/sho...
AlphaTauri  +   374d ago
are there links with those exact specs you've posted?
#2.3 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
theWB27  +   374d ago
Read the whole back and forth. It really wasn't any worse that's happened before. Some people say you can't add bandwith...a few said you can in certain circumstances.

He was called out again...he admitted he has to check with his most knowledgeable people. Neogaf wants that guy to come and talk to them directly...Parello said he will try and get him to come on...and if he can as soon as he can.

Nothing we haven't seen or heard before.
GraveLord  +   374d ago
About the bandwidth, you can add them together but its not as simple as that. Alberts posts were full of factually incorrect statements with PR spin and damage control.

Who knows how he hasn't been banned yet on Neogaf. His agenda is pretty clear.
Megaton  +   374d ago
Yeah, Albert treats Gaf like Reddit, thinking he can just PR BS his way into their hearts and minds. Unfortunately for him, some users on Gaf are smart enough to spot his nonsense when he posts it. I'm also somewhat surprised he hasn't been banned yet. I've seen mods make fun of other users who think he isn't just there as PR.
Hicken  +   374d ago
Here's the problem: it's the same thing that's been going on since the announcement. Microsoft says something, it's inaccurate, and they have to do a lot of backtracking to "clarify" things.

By now, you'd think they would know to have all their ducks in a row before saying something.

And especially with the tech-minded crowd at NeoGAF, you can't afford to mess up.

For example, you can't claim the speed of the eSRAM for your whole console, because there's only 32MB of it, and 8GB of RAM in it overall. Therefore, only 32MB at a time can reach that theoretical peak of 204. That, in particular, has been a point of contention since the specs were revealed, so it's not like that's a mistake that should be made by now.

And you don't have to design video games or consoles for a living to know this stuff, either. Information is easily available to anyone who bothers to look.

Of course, a lot of people won't. They'll think Penello's telling the truth. Which he isn't. And which is likely intentional, at this point.

And that's just on that one point. As others have already pointed out, his other points can be taken apart, as well.
cell989  +   374d ago
Penello created a shitstorm in NeoGaf, that isnt a place where people are that gullible like in reddit, these people are passionate about technology and love comparing system specs, they love their GFX too, so anything related to that will be scrutinized by the dot. He should have never attempted this. He should have had Larry Hyrb post this on the xbox blog or something. Now he has to find a suitable person to come and clean his mess in NEOGAF, that one person is going to be questioned to hell if he doesnt construct a viable point of view with the xbone specs.
Killjoy3000   374d ago | Trolling | show
Lukas_Japonicus  +   374d ago
While i don't think the difference in performance is as big as some people make it out to be, ill let the games of Sony's 1st party studio's speak for themselves when they are announced.
iistuii  +   374d ago
Specs are fine, but i wanna see the difference in the games. PS3 was more powerful, but it didn't stop 70 million people buying a 360. I honestly couldn't care less, i game on PC, but from everything I've seen from both consoles so far, there's not a game i can say looks 50% better. Well apart from Battlefield 4, which looks 50% better on pc ....sorry couldn't resist.
Angeljuice  +   374d ago
" PS3 was more powerful, but it didn't stop 70 million people buying a 360."
More like 30 million people buying 70 million 360's when you take into account multiple purchases due to RRoD.
sic_chops  +   374d ago
Exactly angel... Hell, I owned 3 of them. One launch, one elite, and one slim. I have none now and yes, I have learned my lesson. Nobody can tell me those numbers weren't padded.
MysticStrummer  +   374d ago
Yes.

I know people who bought as many as 4 360s. Some ask why would they do that when they could have gotten a free replacement, but (A) that wasn't always the case since MS denied the existence of RRoD for as long as they could and (B) people with plenty of disposable income won't necessarily wait, especially gamers who want to play.
devwan  +   374d ago
How many games have we seen running on both consoles? Exactly - none. The longer this goes on, the more the war of words will continue.
Cuzzo63  +   374d ago
You are right @iistuii but only because of the 1year plus head start. If they were released ay the same time it woulda been a slaughter. But as far as BF4. Wat percentage of pc gamers are gonna see those ultra high graphics. I wouldnt say it will look better on just the pc but a high end pc only. A mid range would get mopped even by the Xb1 lol. Couldnt resist. Im pretty sure there are more low to mid range pc gamers than high rangers
iistuii  +   374d ago
"What percentage", everyone comes out with that one. I for one will be maxed out, also remember GAMERS pc's are top spec so we will always have great looking games because that's why we have custom built rigs, to play games maxed out.
Cuzzo63  +   374d ago
Yea... they will be maxed for their hardware. Every pc guy on here has a super pc with a titan gpu lol. Yea right. Jus sayn tho. I understand the pc can push out alot tho all are not equal. So you can speak for the demo you say on youtube. Chances are the majority wont be pushing half of that on their pc.
GraveLord  +   374d ago
We haven't seen side by side comparisons of PS4/XB1 games. So of course you can't seen anything that look 50% better.

Even when you did see them compared, what would 50% better look like? IT WOULDN'T LOOK LIKE ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR.
gamer2013  +   374d ago
PS3 was not more powerful. The 360 also had better allocated ram and superior GPU. Before anyone says: "bu bu Uncharted, Last of Us!" None of those games were graphically consistent throughout due to hardware limitations. Developers have said that the only differences are the trade-offs between the two and which are preferred.

I see the point that you're trying to make but seriously, this ignorance needs an end.
Cuzzo63  +   372d ago
Um despite what you think. The ps3 was more powerful overall. Yea the 360 had the better ram and gpu. But it didnt have the cell. Its been proven. Both systems were both benchmarked. In the end the ps3 was the strongest. None were graphically consistent? Whaaa! To this day and many can agree. Nothing in the scale of the intro in GoW has not been done on 360 from any of their first party devs... Nothing was as graphically intense as uncharted, all of them, on 360. And regardless of how blind you are to the fact of the masterpiece that is TLOU..... Visually and storywise. It was nothing like anything that came before. I mean come on. 360 5 best looking games and scale wise against ps3 5 best visually and scale wise. Really we dnt need to get into that argument. Its not only the fans or fanboys that agree. Devs also. So they are sony fanboys too.
cell989  +   374d ago
fail argument dude-bro 70 million 360s sold because 30% of those were faulty and people had to purchase again, sometimes even more than twice
gnothe1  +   374d ago
I guess when MS says something it PR bullshit but when sony says something its truth from the gods...is that how it works around here?
Lou-Cipher  +   374d ago
That is because Ms has a history of constantly crying wolf. Ms spends more time trying to convince people they have a great product, INSTEAD of actually making a great product.

Ms is and always has been a scumbag company. They are in the same league as the Monsanto's, and Enron's of this world.

So yeah, we choose to recognize that 99.99% of everything Ms says is absolute deception. (and the other .01% is exaggerations)
gnothe1  +   374d ago
Really dude...an sony is bettet?...next gen don't start til we say...work 2 jobs to afford a ps3.. ps2 capable of toy story graphics..we have the strogest consloe in the world....really man...you guys are a joke..but idc I'm buying bothsystems day one...I have no allegiance
bobtheimpaler  +   373d ago
Well, they're both X86 based APUs and the specs are out there.

I know it's easier to just bury your head in the sand and ignore any real analysis and quantifiable evidence.
Nekroo91  +   374d ago
i love the fact as he uses the 32bm of esram as normal memory, because no it doesent work that way.

And if you dont know that why would you had 8gb of ddr3 when the esram as what 209/gbs maximum?! because that speed means nothing.

your just retarted mr penello
IcicleTrepan  +   374d ago
you are even more retarded as you think you're an expert when you aren't. Whip out your engineering degree and your real name if you are so sure of your statement.
#8.1 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
Nekroo91  +   374d ago
hes retarted because he tries to act like the esram works as normal memory. esram is fast no doubt about that, but you cant use it to process all the textures etc... if speed was everything it wouldnt need the 8gb ddr with 68gb/s the 32mb is only used for small tasks. so please learn something from my engineering degree.

and not to mention it wont work all the time at max frequency
ceedubya9  +   374d ago
Well, I'm going to be honest, and I'm sure I'll probably get disagreed to heaven for this. I'm getting both consoles at launch, and I'm really not all that bothered about which console is "more powerful" or not. However, I'd be lying if I said that I've seen anything on the PS4 so far that looks head and shoulders above what is on the XBox One. Really, the games look rather even to me.
iistuii  +   374d ago
Agree...
starchild  +   374d ago
Yep, I also agree. Everything I have seen on the PS4 and XB1 so far looks about equal. If anything I think multiplatform games like MGS5, The Division, Battlefield 4 and The Witcher 3 are some of the most impressive looking games I have seen in terms of overall technical achievement.

And as a PC guy I really don't care which console is more powerful, since I'll be getting multiplatform games on PC anyway.

The exclusives are the only reason I buy consoles. I'm sure Halo 5 will look amazing in its own right, just as I am sure Uncharted 4 will look amazing as well. But those games aren't on the other console anyway so it doesn't really matter which console is more powerful. It will really come down to the talent of the developers.
MELMAN26  +   374d ago
Exactly, can anyone point out a game on the ps4 that looks 50% better than an XB1 game?
#9.2 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
strickers  +   374d ago
Infamous shits on any XB game I've seen. If you just look at the still images the differences might not be large, but in motion it is quite pronounced. You have to look at what is actually being put up on screen, not just image.
5h4h4b  +   374d ago
Deep down looks 50% better than dead rising 3.
#9.2.2 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(9) | Report
Cuzzo63  +   374d ago
Really. Just like xbox guys denied Uncharted.... Denied God of War3.... Denied Killzone. Even denied Last of Us. For last gen. Gears and halo are the best looking games to you guys.... Buy why. The hate is okay but undeniable biased thinking is not. Plus its the beginning of a new era. Nothing has been reviewed. But alot of guys are saying Ryse is trash. 60 dollars for a tech demo huh.
stevehyphen  +   374d ago
No game looks 50% better than any other. Everyone has their own favorites in graphics.

What I think gets overlooked is that Cerny has all but said that Knack is a physics simulation disguised as a family friendly game. It might not have the most filters, or the most post processing effects, or be the prettiest to the eyes, but it could very well be the launch title that works the ps4 muscle the hardest. Especially so coming from the guy who designed the system.
1lawrence  +   374d ago
u never compare launch games to c which one is powerful developers are just now making games on these next gen consoles does uncharted 1 look the same as uncharted 2 last of us ? give it a or two n u will c differences i hate when people make your comment like launch games is a representation of what a console can do
ceedubya9  +   374d ago
You make a good point. However, considering how powerful and easy to develop for the PS4 is supposed to be in comparison, would it be unreasonable to expect to see some of that advantage right now? 2-3 years from now, games on both consoles will look a lot better. Its not like the PS4 is the only one that will see improvements over time. I do expect PS4 1st party games of the future to really look good though. They have great studios.
Sky Lazarus   374d ago | Trolling | show
iistuii  +   374d ago
oops...
#11 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Wizziokid  +   374d ago
The fact they keep bringing this up shows it's less powerful.
majiebeast  +   374d ago
Yeah do you know whats funny we havent heard anything about power of the clouds in 2 months. I guess they found out people arent as stupid as they thought. Now they are trying to do it by magic engineers and bad math, to see if they can fool anyone that way.
Cuzzo63  +   374d ago
Naaa. With all thats goin on I think they forgot about the cloud. They still have not shown anything but asteroids from cloud
Blaze929  +   374d ago
"The fact they keep bringing this up shows it's less powerful."

how do you deduce that? The fact they keep bringing it up is because consumers keep talking about it as if its the truth. It still has not been settled...even though MS said it over and over.

The reasoning of gamers this gen is something strange. To where said straight from the horses mouth, it can't be trusted. So who the hell can you trust if not the company who made the damn thing? A software company at that vs a hardware one? You'd THINK maaaaybe Microsoft knows wtf they are talking about. Just maybe.

Disagree but don't reply - i don't mind.
#12.2 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(21) | Report | Reply
solidjun5  +   374d ago
"To where said straight from the horses mouth, it can't be trusted. So who the hell can you trust if not the company who made the damn thing? "

A PR person who is getting ripped by even the mods of Neograf?

I disagreed and I replied - you mind now?
n4rc  +   374d ago
Yet ignored his point.. Shocker!

You take ANYTHING positive about Sony and believe it without question... But call Microsoft liars at every turn..

Naturally comments sections are full of engineers that all know more then the people paid to design these systems..
solidjun5  +   374d ago
Oh really? Then what was it Einstein since you speak for him?
MysticStrummer  +   374d ago
MS's constant defending of it's own product is what makes it look less powerful, though I don't know what else anyone expects them to do since they want to sell it.

It's not just consumers that are saying this stuff. It originated with 3rd party tech sites and developers.
CrimsonStar  +   374d ago
But not 50 % , that's a ridiculous margin .
Angeljuice  +   374d ago
He's trying to fool GAFfers with PR spin and rhetoric, that's going to come back and bite him in the arse. He's arguing about hardware with people who know more about the subject than he does.
Still, I'm sure his words will be quoted to death by Microsoft fans over the next few weeks.
CrossingEden  +   374d ago
Kinda like how anything and everything said by Sony is instantly said to be fact with no questions asked. -_-
Knushwood Butt  +   374d ago
You know when MS are in trouble when they have to try and sell the xb1 by doing this.
Mikelarry  +   374d ago
lol this topic is really burning MS. i mean if you have to waste all this energy to prove something
Daz  +   374d ago
Where the proof that he is wrong?
It just shows that he has confident in his product. go on to one of the biggest game forums and saying this stuff knowing his properly going to get attack by loonys lol

Also he debug a couple of things like the dgpu etc but now he lieing and spinning becuase he says something good about the xbox one.
#16 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(13) | Report | Reply
jizzyjones  +   374d ago
It says more the fact MS have been juicing there GPU/CPU in recent weeks
Edi007  +   374d ago
Hhh u r trying to say to us 1 + 1 = 3 shut up idiot ps4 is more powerfull u want or not not just with hardware but with the software for every genre and every region
nerdeu  +   374d ago
What people often forget is that Sony actually went out to the developers and asked what kind of hardware and tools they wanted. Microsoft has NEVER brought up this simple fact about their own console. Instead of asking the developers what they want Microsoft built a system from scratch on their own preferences.

The developers and consumers are the core of the companies and therefore you can't go wrong with them. Because of the increasing technical interest and temporary tough economy it is really important to satisfy all parties from the beginning. There is no room for mistakes as it used to be because of the huge investments that are put into development and because the simple fact that consoles only appear in cycles every 6-8 years nowadays. That is why Sony is a step ahead. They looked back, learned from their mistakes and made something wonderful by being humble. It's called Playstation 4.
#19 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(18) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
Blaze929  +   374d ago
Sony, a hardware company, going to developers to ask them how the development tools should be. Understandable - look at the issues developers had with the PS3.

Microsoft, a software company - why would they need to ask developers anything? I mean really...do you not think they know what developers need - as - a software company? No one had problems developing on the 360 - in fact it was 'easier'.

But the same company, who didn't ask anyone anything - was able to make a system pretty damn similar to the PS4. How is that? I mean I'd really love to hear your thinking behind this.

Disagree but don't reply - i don't mind.
#19.1 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(16) | Report | Reply
nerdeu  +   374d ago
I can give you two examples why Microsoft should've asked the developers (and the rest of the community) for guidance:

Windows 8
Xbox One

And your "disagree but don't reply ..."-stuff is actually perfectly synonymous with the mentality that goes on in the Microsoft camp. It's called ignorance.
Blaze929  +   374d ago
7 disagrees but 1 reply. Nothing to do with ignorance - you all literally don't reply for squat lol. And you reply, didn't add anything to the discussion. My point exactly with all this. What's wrong with Windows 8? And Xbox One? It aint even out yet what's wrong with it?

I'm not saying I am right nor am i a developer, I legitimately want to talk. But no one ever wants to reply and explain why they disagree with you. That's all I want - i don't really care about anything else. I just want to talk :-/
#19.1.2 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(7) | Report
bigboirock  +   374d ago
two words

who cares!!

there both going to be good systems lol. im going to get xbox one day one then ps4 a couple months later. who else thot the graphics looked just fine in the dashboard leak?

its all about the gameplay anyway witch both system has good games
#20 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
nerdeu  +   374d ago
Imagine that I'm a living Playstation 4 console that can rap and press the link below. Repeat these lyrics:

Two words, Sony Raised
Me Crazy
So I live by to words
F*ck Microsoft
Play Me!

Related video
MultiConsoleGamer  +   374d ago
So a Microsoft rep is upset about the Xbox One disinformation on the Internet so he makes an account on the very forum responsible for all the disinformation on the first place.

Albert and Larry you fail, you fail hard. I'm ashamed of such failure. Now you can piss away your time arguing with an army of sock puppet accounts. Learn to PR you damned fools.

Oh and BTW, almost everyone knew the "50% myth" came directly from Sony PR. The only people who believed it were mouth breathing fanboy morons.
#22 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(10) | Report | Reply
strickers  +   374d ago
There will be areas where XB comes out on top. It's not a one way street. Just as it was on PS3 and 360. Even PS2 bettered the first Xbox in some areas ( Hence MGS2s weather fx problems on Xbox). Bottom line is, graphics capability and ease of use are stronger on PS4.
XB may do things like AI better but hardly anyone can tell. Most comments I've seen on AI in forums are from people lacking in I
bigboirock  +   374d ago
you going to hardly tell the graphics are different from the xboxone and ps4. in the long run maby the ps4 will have better graphics at the end of the console lifespan like the ps3 did to the 360
strickers  +   374d ago
PS3 had better graphics than 360 ages ago.
There is no secret power to find with PS4. Graphics will improve over time but will get to a higher point than XB quickly, if not from the start.
Niv  +   374d ago
It ain't about CUs but the flop count

1.84 TF > 1.31 TR
solidjun5  +   374d ago
I actually like Albert. Seems like a nice guy. I don't think he should have commented on Neogaf. If anything, he should have kept it simple: "Gamers will see in November." That's all. I'm sure the games will speak for themselves as they always do every generation.
Both systems will be fine.
ceedubya9  +   374d ago
You're probably. I think he is in a no win situation there. You have to respect him it though.
solidjun5  +   374d ago
You do. I just think some things are better left u said. Let the chips fall into place. i believe the first party games for both systems will really shine, and by then gamers can make their determination (also im sure everyone will have fin playing them) But at the same time, he's not like spencer, and Greenberg. Like I said, I like the guy.
GryestOfBluSkies  +   374d ago
i immediately dismiss anything at all that is said by this penello character.
Niv  +   374d ago
Remember he said how can a 400hp Porsche be faster than a 700hp corvette.

Well,

How can a $400 console be faster than a $500 console!
MasterCornholio  +   374d ago
"How can a $400 console be faster than a $500 console!"

I think thats why XBOX One fans are freaking out so much.

Edit: A great example of cheaper devices outperforming more expensive ones is Apple vs Android manufacturers.

iPhone 5 vs Samsung Galaxy S4
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Edit: An even better example is the 3DS vs the Vita when they were at the same price point.

http://www.gamasutra.com/vi...

"Of course, Sony announced its new handheld, the PS Vita, will ship in 2011 at $249 -- the same price as the 3DS."

I know the 3DS is number one in sales and software but Nintendo was selling it at the same price as the Vita plus everyone knows that the Vita destroys the 3DS when it comes to system power.
#27.1 (Edited 374d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
joeorc  +   374d ago
yupper's, there is many example's of this a lower cost priced product can be more robust hardware, if the one with the higher price may be setting the price higher due to name brand, and can get away with it. based on Name brand alone, and may not be based on true hardware performance.

Example. the 3DS is way lower in specs than the PSVita, and yet Nintendo priced it in the same price point that something like the PSVita would run.

Nothing wrong for a company to do that , hey they can ask what ever price they want for their system, but i as a consumer can choose not to pay that price for it.
Trekster_Gamer  +   374d ago
Specs... Meh... How about what games we have seen so far???? The Xbox Ones games look as good if not better so why aren't Sony showcasing ANYTHING that beats the Xbox One? Why at E3 did Xbox One games beat out Sony's games?

Fanboys can now disagree and distort below...
Mr_Danski  +   374d ago
So they are basically saying..

Well, the PS4 is more powerful.. Just not as much as people are saying..

I don't see how that's a positive, regardless.
jairusmonillas  +   373d ago
PS4 is 30%-50% more powerful no matter how they spin it.

It's their fault they prioritize Kinect 2.0 than X1's specs.
Sadist3  +   374d ago
The funny thing is, if any of you guys actually used your brains you'd realize specs on paper never translate to real life conditions. Look at TVs. Contrast ratio could be a hundred thousand times higher on one television than another, but can you tell the difference? No, and that's a fact. Smartphones, same thing. The processors on some Android OS phones are greater than that of the iPhone 5, yet the iPhone 5 still operates and looks better. Everyone should know this, but guess they'll have to wait when both systems come out and see. Then if there isn't really any difference, what's the next excuse? Wait 4 years and we'll really see the difference? Look at how good the Last of Us looked? If you're telling me I have to wait 7 years into a console cycle to tell the difference between systems, the forget it. That's not power to me.
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