Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian prove points a certain gamer-type refuses to hear.
While many people familiar with Zoe Quinn’s history of duplicity were initially highly skeptical of the allegations, reporter Anna Slatz at The Post Millenial was the first to report on the inconsistencies in an article titled Zoe Quinn’s allegations are falling apart.
She has blood on her hands! So does ResetEra. People were making posts saying I hope he gets what he deserves right before he took his life. Evil parasites
The games media websites need to recognise the role they all played.
They all wrote about Zoe Quinn's claims without using proper journalistic standards of objectivity - instead, they wrote about the allegations as if they were proven facts. Why? It is okay for individuals on the internet to have an opinion and believe one side or the other but it's not okay for a professional 'journalism' website. This led to mounting pressure on a vulnerable guy who was being attacked by everyone on the internet, EVERY website, no individual spoke up for him.
Alec Howloka was a troubled guy who in his past interviews always came across a good natured. The poor guy was abused as a child, and the recent tweets reveal he was submissive in the relationship.
Polygon.com contacted the husband and wife team that ALEC had hired to help him make Night in the Woods and Polygon effectively asked them 'what are you going to do?' They then parted with Alec and he killed himself. Two days later his former friend and colleague wrote a long post condemning Alec. Disgusting human beings.
People came out of the woodwork to attack him and promote their brand and websites.
But the problem is that if and when allegations come out about somebody else, individuals and the games media will pile in without professionalism attacking the character of an individual. What happened to Alec must never happen again.
So, Mr Pumblechook, a lot of the people who knew and worked with Alec agreed with and supported Zoe - including Alec's own sister.
But, you and the other internet Sherlocks who've never met anyone involved, know different..
@ginganinja. You misunderstand the point of my post completely - this is not about you or I taking sides with the alleged abuser or the alleged victim. This is about the games media recognising that they should report on allegations - but must do so professionally. The reporters on these games websites were not witnesses to the relationship but by declaring one vulnerable person guilty he likely saw no path to clear his name. In actual newspapers in the UK, real newspapers would not be allowed to that as it is considered both ethically and likely legally wrong. If the games websites had reported this story with balance rather than writing as if he was guilty (as is right in real journalism) he might have felt brave enough to release a statement.
@Mr P
Firstly, the sites I've seen (such as kotaku, IGN, PC gamer, etc. not blogs or bedroom youtubers) just covered the stories as is. Laid out who accused who of what and didn't pass judgement.
Secondly, have you ever read a UK tabloid ?
You'll struggle to buy a Sun in Liverpool because of all the BS it wrote about Hillsborough.
You can't use the Daily Fail as a source on Wikipedia because it's so unreliable and prone to sensationalist BS.
UK tabloids can be just as trashy as any other country's tabloids so I totally disagree with that. . Just look as recently as when Rahim sterling exposed their hypocrisy in regards to race. . . .
But in regards to this women she's clearly told a fib or twm. just because the guy wasn't perfect there's no need to pile on crap to justify the assumption of guilt. Some sites were just point scoring and tried to paint themselves as 'for the victims' . . . .bs. . .report fairly or don't report at all. An inspector calls springs to mind here
There 100% needs to be legal ramifications for people who make false/misleading accusations that lead to ANY loss of the accused. Whether that's financial/reputational loss from being fired or all the way at the extreme that someone harms themselves or ends their life.
Any sane person obviously wants victims of abuse to have justice, but the scale has been tipped all the way to other side now, it doesn't even matter if there's evidence anymore. All it takes is an accusation and you're pre-judged as guilty by court of public opinion.
Enough is enough, we need reasonable middle ground. If you abuse someone, you go to jail. But also if you accuse someone falsely you should go to jail because it ruins and costs lives as much as abusing someone does, they need to be treated equally.
Edit: I normally keep things factual/logical, but this genuinely pisses me off so im allowing this one personal rant through. Look at the absolute STATE of her too. That "I'm invincible and can do what i want" look, you can tell from a 1,000 paces she loves to abuse double standards to further her own agenda on a daily basis. Stay away from f***ing cretins like this and show them no more attention. What a monster of a human being to contribute to a person death like this.
Making false claims is a civil offense, and there are laws for it. In some cases, the damages may be more extreme than what can be recovered financially...like in cases where people lose their job or ability to maintain their way of life. But it's really rare for it to be a criminal offense, and requires more than what quinn did, and is usually prosecuted as part of a bigger criminal fraud case.
Victims of abuse can get justice, and while it isnt as easy to get justice as it should be...same as many crimes really...these kinds of accusations being about informing are spreading the idea that there is no way to get justice otherwise. The first step would be to call the police, or visit any number of free public or private services that help abuse victims for free.
Unfortunately, the legal system doesn't move as fast as the world does though. There have been an increasing number of cases in the past few years of false accusations leading to ruining a person's life, or potentially leading to deaths, so it may be something lawmakers start to try and look into. It becomes hard in the internet age though, because with everything being online, it almost requires a federal law since a lot of accusations are across state lines, and then of course there are international laws which would have to be accounted for.
There is no easy fix for the law itself I'm afraid. But while these things may take time to be remedied, any victim of abuse should seek aid. There are many sources which can refer you to who you need to speak to, and if one cant help, ask somewhere else. It isnt until everyone is saying they cant do something that people should seek other forms of recourse if they feel they've been wronged.
Well said. I forgot what she looked like since that GamerGate thing all those years ago, and wow, she just inherently looks like a stuck up piece of shit by default. What a terrible waste of oxygen. Every time her name pops up it's ALWAYS something negative attached, a controversy.
Kind of a shame that it took so long for someone in the press to point it out.
I dont know if the press is giving her as much attention as they did years ago, and she seems more like she living off Twitter fame, but the press is at a point where they have to probably distance themselves from her. I havent seen any ardent defense of her actions in a long time, and it usually is just some report about whatever claim she makes. But at the same time, i haven't seen the press also taking accountability for making her relevant(relatively speaking) as they made her in the first place. Doing so would only implicate then in their own failings as journalists in the whole gamergate thing, and we all know they arent going to do that.
In the end, many of the things she and those like her ushered in have left lasting effects on the game industry and press, and has changed the landscape about what is talked about when it comes to games. Many of us in the community see this, and dont like it. Worse, their actions have led to talented people being pushed out of the industry because they decided to create something they wanted to create. It's a shame that they were ever allowed to get so much influence, or that the gaming press has ever gotten so much influence over the industry or games that get made.
I never believed her story, it always seemed inconsistent, nonsensical, and like attention seeking. I'm happy that there are actually some real journalists who are willing to do research rather than simply hang a guy based on a headline.
I implore every gaming journalist who has ever written a story about this to dig deep and do the research because you all contributed to a man dying. Every headline that judged Holowka before the facts were out and the story assessed contributed. Every person who immediately condemned the man and ran to Quinn's defense as if every word of her shaky story was granite fact. The fellow developers and former friends who immediately turned on him, trashed him, and quit his team. You all contributed. A man is dead. Her story is being proven as bullshit. You better hope for a smoking gun that miraculously proves her right because if this story is indeed bullshit and a man is dead because it, all of you cowards deserve to burn. Shameful.
Even IF her story is true, which i very much doubt, this is a tragic result regardless. Is this how we handle serious legal matters in 2019? Use Twitter to drive a man to suicide? This crazy bitch is wrong any way you slice it. Go to the police, seek justice through legal avenues and use facts and evidence to support your case. This whole situation is a travesty and it makes me sick.
"While Marvel and Vertigo author Zoe Quinn"
Marvel and Vertigo? She got that kind of job? Are these people serious? Jesus man.
His blood is on her hands and she needs to pay the price, if this was a male developer he'd have his head on a spike by now.
She/anyone who does this should face jail time or at least a massive fine. They must be punished if found they're lying and attempting to destroy someone's life.
James Gunn made crude jokes on twitter more than 10 years ago and gets the boot.
But cretins like this who make false claims about sexual abuse and contribute to a person taking their own life get jobs in media because they are "brave" and "progressive". It almost makes me physically sick that industry's love this kind of person and are seemingly oblivious to double standards.
What gets me is that this keeps happening. How many more suicides or ruined careers is it going to take for these people to realise that baseless accusations are a serious matter and can destroy someone.
She working for DC Comics now her upcoming comic is Dona Troy turning into joker!
I got to say I'm heartened by the biggest show in solidarity N4G has ever seen on this issue. Perhaps the tide is turning. I'm hopeful but not optimistic. Nice to see people agreeing on such an important issue.
I doubt it. N4G is generally against people like her, outside some that want to antagonize people. But, the press will do whatever they want to keep making headlines, and they won't take any accountability for their part in their careless reporting. This will blow over like it always does, and about the best we can probably hope for is that the press won't give her any attention in the future. She fled from twitter after Holowka's suicide, but knowing her, she will not be able to stay away from the attention it gets her when she goes through one of her phases of needing to feel important.
She's obviously depressed and bipolar based on her attitudes and other reports from other people she's had relationships with, and people like that can't really stay away for very long.
Yeah agreed rainslacker. I meant maybe the tide turning in the media away from attention seeking nut jobs but point taken.
So good to see common sense prevail in this community but the video game media has been absolutely hijacked by people with social justice agendas lately and that comes at a huge cost.
Night in the Woods creator, Alec Holowka has been accused of abuse by fellow game developer, Zoe Quinn, creator of Depression Quest.
This is an awful situation. It's not right if I or any other un-related person uses our personal feelings to determine innocence or guilt; public opinion and social media must not be used to determine the role of either party, the best thing is to involve the police and let this go to trial. People on the internet shouldn't attack or abuse her or him.
It's important to let the courts get involved because sometimes the internet can wrongly condemn a person.
YouTuber Andy Signore had an allegation of sexual misconduct made against him by a woman he was in a relationship with. He had many on the internet condemn him and he was fired from his job. Fortunately for him, proof was discovered that disproved the allegations and Defy Media settled a lawsuit he bought against them paying him an undisclosed amount of compensation.
Speaking generally, the law is not perfect but police and lawyers do everything they can to get justice for victims of sexual assault so it's important that victims get the police involved to start proceedings.
While I agree that police should be involved, or at least some authority depending on the situation, when someone goes to social media as a first resort, or before retaining a lawyer, then it calls the whole accusation into question.
I understand the need to have support, but people need to realize that anonymous people on the internet are not a proper or sufficient support group.
That said, leaving all bias aside, when someone has been exposed as propagating false claims in the past, and has made extreme exaggerations about the treatment they received from a community to try and vilify that same community, anything brought to social media is going to bring even more unwanted attention.
My guess, having watched Quinn in the past, she will use that as yet another reason to vilify the community, thus devaluing the claim. Whether it's true or not is rather inconsequential when it comes to social media.
That said, you talk about the law, but my wife is a lawyer who has seen more cases fall apart because people take these things to social media prematurely, or at all. First thing she would tell any of her clients is to not talk in public forums about it.
@rainslacker
'leaving all bias aside' - proceeds to be biased as fu..
If you read through the replies to her tweets there's several other people making similar accusations against the same person.
It's strange how everybody here is 'doubtful' of her story, yet believed everything her ex said without question all those years ago (even still, when large parts of it have proven to be bs).
I'm not saying I'm leaving bias aside, just that the following sentiment is based on the practical nature of how people react to others. My personal feelings about it are that no one deserves to be abused, but I don't really just take quinn at her word, because she is the very definition of a drama queen, and has purposefully made statements to discredit others, and get attention for herself. Her history is against her, but if she has valid proof, and wants more than just to cause public outrage towards this person for whatever reason like she's done in the past, then there are much better outlets of recourse than going to twitter to defame someone.
I'm personally not taking a side with either of them about who did what. I don't know this holowka guy, and never heard of him before. I also wouldn't really listen to any twitter reply support either. It's not conclusive of anything.
All I can say is that taking it to twitter doesn't do anything but spread trouble. There's a pervasive idea that nothing can be done about this, so some people don't seek real justice. All I know is that people who run to twitter to accuse and try someone in the court of public opinion often ruin any chance they ever had at getting justice. A public trial proving this would mean something. A bunch of he said/she said, means nothing, regardless of supposed witnesses who have not been verified in the least.
In any case, I question if this is even gaming news. This was a personal relationship between a game developer and a self proclaimed game developer. It's one thing if this is happening within a studio, and that may have some effect on a game, but in this case, that's not the case.
@rain...
Have you ever considered that all your beliefs about her are founded on nothing but bs. What if their was a wolf every time and you were just too blinded by the internet rabble to see?
You take every allegation against her as gospel despite any proof, yet are unwilling to believe in this case despite corroborating stories from colleagues and others in the business.
@ginganinja
"It's strange how everybody here is 'doubtful' of her story, yet believed everything her ex said without question all those years ago"
Let's just address the elephant in the room which is CON. Her organisation which only cares about you if you're a big name public figure and was shown to actually be guilty of doing the sort harrassment they claim to be fighting against. Also well known for telling people to not go to the police which is the dumbest advice you can possibility give.
The story she's tweeting about could be 100% true. But If you're trying to say she's not equivalent to a Gloria Allred in regard to her desperate levels of attention seeking, by injecting herself whenever possible into a story then you need to rethink your position.
What exactly does she claim? She says the two dated and she was staying with him and then goes on to lambaste him for being a controlling jerk with mental issues. She vaguely mentions sexual assault and claims someone saw it and he threatened her Visa or wouldn't pay for her plane ticket home? Am i missing something? I dug a little, but am i missing the smoking gun? They were dating, he was manic, and she vaguely refers to some sexual assault or..? Idk..
Were they dating while she claims he assaulted her or was it at the office? Were they broken up? She says she flew home and emailed him a breakup letter. Wtf? This makes no sense. She was assaulted but didn't breakup until after she flew home and she was assaulted while she was living with him? So he assaulted his girlfriend?
Why is she going on Twitter as opposed to the authorities? This woman seems off in the way she describes things, almost petty in some cases. She denigrates him for berating her for the tone in her voice once. You accuse the man of sexual assault and you drone on in the same paragraph about how he reprimanded you about your bitchy tone? That seems petty, why bring it up?
I have no idea what happened, but Quinn has a tainted past and this series of tweets appears strange.
Replies(1)Since when did twitter become the place to air out your dirty laundry? If your boyfriend is abusive you need to call the law. Posting the shit on twitter just screams shady attention whore. Trying to make some indie developer look like Harvey Weinstein lol.
The best part is how she says he stuck his fingers in her then walked around her around the house as if this was a consensual thing.
I can't take accusations like these seriously. Report it to the authorities, not on a Tumblr/Twitter post. All this does is send an angry mob of idiots to attack who you're accusing, it's happened before. This isn't how things of this matter should be dealt with, it isn't brave, it's reckless.
That’s not how it works. You can’t prove this sort of thing legally and she’s not interested in him being criminally liable. People want to move on, but people also want to protect others from the same happening. It’s very good to speak up about stuff like this to shine a light on behaviours that keep happening.
You seriously think people are supposed to report things like this at the time when the whole account relies on one person controlling the other and breaking them down?
That's exactly how it works, because that's how the legal system works. Unfortunately for the victims, something like this is closer to libel than anything else. No one said it was easy, but if you can't gather the courage to speak up in a timely manner then no one can help you.
Innocent until proven guilty is the way we operate. If a court of law can't pass a verdict, then he is innocent, unfortunately. Thus, this is libel seeking to incite mob justice. A better way to protect others is to talk about how you should ask for help when it happens, so people actually have a chance to find justice.
SuperRaccoon
" If a court of law can't pass a verdict, then he is innocent, unfortunately" You lost me with the word "unfortunately". It's not "unfortunately", it's fortunately otherwise it would be anarchy and chaos.
@mix you're a demented person. Wake up or someday your assumption of guilt will bite back.
Bullshit. Stop spreading this ignorance. Going to the authorities will give you an infinitely higher chance of getting justice than just saying something on Twitter. If she doesn't even try, then that's wrong. The police, and her lawyer if she retains one, and any prosecutor, would tell her to not go around telling everyone her story. That only hinders any investigation.
There are ways to prove abuse through systematic investigation, and outside some really rare cases, there is always some evidence, or witness, even if after the fact. Even if it seems that the evidence is thin, it can lead to much more if the person actually did abuse someone because abusive people typically aren't abusive only to one person in their life.
I wouldn't think this is Quinn trying to protect others, because her history doesn't support anything more than her being a self-serving drama queen. All she wants is attention, and even if this is something that's true, her own actions in the past, on Twitter no less, make any accusation she makes instantly questionable. If she wants to protect others, then try to do it right and get his ass thrown in jail, or at least have an official public record of it. Even if she doesn't get justice, at least if he does it again, which abusive people usually do, there will be an official record of it to give the potential the next person can get justice. Sex offenders, which some of this abuse would be classified as, are never going to be free of people knowing what they did. With Twitter, what he did will be a distant memory in the near future.
But, what it comes down to is that she has tons of resources that don't involve going on Twitter and publicly shaming someone. She is trying to try this man in the court of public opinion, and the public is irrational and never bothers to know the facts. I'd take attempted and failed justice over public shaming which will achieve nothing but making her feel better about herself, and find support from random anonymous people on the internet.
You basically just said "guilty until proven innocent" in a roundabout way. This woman is a notorious liar and is known to do things like this to get attention. Sorry, but you can only cry wolf so many times until people stop ever believing you.
Boogie2988 recently appeared on the H3 Podcast, and before long the conversation turned to social issues and politics. Unfortunately for Boogie, the internet took exception and he once again found out that no good can come of this.
I like how Twitter took a 13 second CUT of an answer which made him look bad yet everyone rolled with it.
I mean...let's not pretend those clips are just devoid of context. He's literally doubled down on his argument of gays should wait to receive equal rights under the law until the country was just more comfortable with it. And, even if in the abstract, trying to tie 'videogame feminism' of Sarkeesian to what some violent alt-righter did in Charlottesville by PLOWING into a group of peaceful protestors is straight-up loony. Who cares if the interviewers just rolled with it? Doesn't defeat how absurd he sounded in some of those highlights.
His bad analogy doesn't erase the fact Anita Sarkeesian is part of the problem, her ridiculous positions and assaults on anyone who disagrees with here feeds the Alt-Right, many of them are famous because of her.
By this logic who isn't part of the problem that has some kind of a public platform? This implicates basically any "SJW" channels as well, just b/c certain figureheads of that movement constantly produce response videos to the worst ones. "Oh if certain people just stayed silent they wouldn't inflame this destructive, opposing ideology." Having a more milquetoast composure didn't do much for her when she simply announced the Tropes v. Women In Videogames series, so I'm not so sure how much would've changed had she stayed that course.
Friendly reminder: the optics of this aren't really in your favor. Still trying to parse blame on someone who's just been unfairly connected to the traumatic death of another person? It's true you acknowledge that boogie made bad analogy; however, hand-waving that part away and then subsequently going "but..." isn't the best approach. It's kinda despicable.
"Oh if certain people just stayed silent they wouldn't inflame this destructive, opposing ideology"
see this is the problem, I didn't say anything like that, but you shove me into it as to put pressure on me. why would you do that? can we argue within the boundaries of our comments please.
"By this logic who isn't part of the problem that has some kind of a public platform?"
Anita Sarkeesian is consistently bad, Boogie is no Alt-right nut but she turned him into an antagonist because she attacked him for disagreeing with her, and her followers constantly target him since then.
respectable discourse is not much to ask and will help her cause and ignoring it hurts
no... he's saying you need to take this in steps... you don't convince people on your point of view by shoving it down their throats... Only a person who is to emotionally attach to the problem can't see that.
@NewMonday
-What are you talking about? My "Oh if..." rebuttal is taking the inverse of what you just stated previously.
You: "her ridiculous positions and assaults on anyone who disagrees with here feeds the Alt-Right."
Therefore: "...if certain people [such as Sarkeesian] just stayed silent they wouldn't inflame this destructive, opposing ideology." Even if being condescending, that is not an unfair rebuttal to present against your first response, especially when taken in the context of that whole paragraph. Still within the boundaries, just to boundaries you're perhaps uncomfortable with.
-"Boogie is no Alt-right nut but she turned him into an antagonist because she attacked him for disagreeing with her, and her followers constantly target him since then."
I don't condone how she conducted herself after that discussion. But to my recollection: it seems like they had a short spat then things cooled off and they went their separate ways. I know nothing of what harassment and/or criticism he's received from her fans since then; however, considering how he recently made this Anita/Charlottesville connection (EVEN IF just to abstractly discuss the fears of political escalation) on a popular podcast I'd expect her fans to rage. Also, how much responsibility should she have for what her fans do--IF not directly commanded by her to target him? If we're going to go down that rabbit hole, then so too must you acknowledge every other anti-SJW/alt-right/etc. channel for its nastier fans targeting her as well. It's a two-way street in which neither side is sinless.
@Cueil
...you just restated what I said in a different way, and it's still an ignorant take of how equal rights have been historically pursued. Read up on the Stonewall Riots for example. Countless parades and gatherings have happened since then, which has resulted in changes to law. Whether a large cluster of people are still uncomfortable with it or not, it's the principle that should matter. The argument for incrementalism was also something MLK faced from fellow clergyman back then ('we support equal rights for blacks but perhaps you shouldn't rile people up'). I think you'd find his response to that rather enlightening.
Games and politics definitely don’t mix. Just make good games. Stop trying to use entertainment as a front to push political agenda.
Agreed. I'm not against devs making whatever they wish though, they are free to create whatever. But if it has that peculiar scent of forced politics to it, I don't want a part of it.
I agree. Make what you like but don't be surprised that people don't purchase your product. I enjoy video games mostly for escapism. The last thing I am entertained by is some game director pushing their own moral code regardless of whether I agree with it or not. Sure they're free to make social commentary but don't be surprised when customers stay away.
Since the dawn of man, entertainment in all it's forms has been used to push a political agenda, get over it.
He’s still going too. It’s crazy to look at some of his older vids, and compare to even now.
I love how the author of the article says that Boogie shouldn't talk about politics since he runs a youtube channel about video games, whilst simultaneously commenting on Boogie's political commentary on a website about video games. Hypocrisy at its best. Also, yikes, calm down before writing a rebuttal. It was really difficult to follow what he was actually trying to say. I had to read it twice and I still don't know. Also I'll never get those minutes back in my life again.
I'm sure this article will go down well. Lol.
Nobody hates Sarkeesian because she's a woman, nobody hates her for expressing her opinion.
People dislike her for her constant misrepresentation of gamers and the industry. We are NOT misogynists or rapists.
Freedom of speech and criticism applies equally to those with a differing viewpoint than hers- she should accept that too.
Most gamers feel her behavior is deliberately attempting to provoke anger, and any single reckless backlash is used to further misrepresent ALL gamers. How is that fair?
Abuse in the industry is bad, but abuse towards gamers is acceptable??? Why the double standards?
Gamers DO like women in games - there are plenty of talented women in the industry who have their respect and admiration.
Gamers Do like diversity in games - gaming today is more so than it ever has been before. I shouldn't need to point this out to a games journalist - you should know this already.
When it comes to controversial people like Sarkeesian , Quinn, Kramer, Alexander, Hernandez - it's NOT their gender that upsets people , it's their actions.
Believe it or not the LAW, stands for something, it has a purpose, and people who break it are generally frowned upon, irrespective of gender.
Slander, fraud, gross misrepresentation, false censorship - there is proof linking them all to the above. (Actual proof, without the suspicious inconsistencies.)
There's no excuse for such behavior, especially from industry professionals.
So, what exactly is your justification of the IGF competition fixing??? What would you say to the other entrants who unfairly lost out despite paying the entrance fee?
There's also no excuse for Hernandez's anti 'white man' articles (- which are the most narrow minded and blatantly racist articles I've ever seen , and on a major media site no less,)- we're all supposed to be more inclusive and accepting, right? Right?
People should be treated as individuals, but that also means being held accountable for their own actions.
When are these people going to be held accountable for theirs?
I approved this because of how ridiculous it is.
I just want to point out that I dissagree with this. I just wanted to share it.
I cant believe someone hit that. I would rather masturbate. No Joke.
Hahaha!
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
This is going to be hilarious.