Phil Fish Says YouTubers Are Stealing From Game Developers

"YouTubers commit 'piracy' by not sharing ad revenue says Fez dev."

[RIPSKATEDESTROY]

ah Phil Fish... Your constant need for attention eventhough you claim to hate it.

5 Stages of Grief:
1. Denial and Isolation X
2. Anger X
3. Bargaining X
4. Depression X
5. Acceptance ...?

[XiNarutoUzumaki]

He's still in the last stage. He can't accept the fact that he sucks.

[Mr Pumblechook]

Phil Fish wrote "If you buy a movie, are you then allowed to stream the entirety of it publicly for people to watch for free? No, because that's illegal."

You know when I first heard that Nintendo wanted a cut of Let's Play videos I thought they were greedy crooks. But hearing Fish's argument it has got me thinking that it's a valid point. The difference with a movie is that it is a passive media where watching it on YouTube reveals the whole content. Whereas with a game it is interactive and a video of it does not provide the user with its full functionality.

But this debate is interesting and does give an insight 2 years into the future. If enough publishers complain Let's play video makers might all have to give a cut to publishers.

[johndoe11211]

@Mr Pumblechook

I think that those youtubers are actually doing more good for the developers than bad. guys like fishy boy there are short sighted and don't see the whole picture.

I can't tell you how many times I've purchased a game from watching a youtube video. A lot of times these videos let us know if we'll like a game or not.

Let's look at an example. Let's say that youtube videos didn't exist and battlefield 4 was my first venture into the battlefield franchise. After that horrid first experience there wouldn't be a chance in hell I would ever purchase that game again. When battlefield 5 comes out I would pass that like a bull on steroids.

Now because of let's plays I could go and look at a couple of videos and see if 5 suffered from the same issues as 4 and if it doesn't, seeing the good gameplay I would probably go get it.

Youtube has done wonders in making cod what it is today hence why activision actually encourages youtubers to play it. People like fish are going to kill the gaming community with their greed and stupidity. Make a good game and people will buy it, that's how devs should make their money.

Edit.
In fact, If they want to get technical, they should probably be paying youtubers to play those games because essentially what youtubers are doing is called "advertising".

[thorstein]

Johndoe is onto something here. Playing a video game and watching someone play it are two different things. Am I supposed to pay the publisher of Dance Dance Revolution because I watched my kids play it at the arcade?

So, posting the game and getting hits does two things: 1) Exposure (sometimes viral) getting your game the hype your overpriced ad agency could never do.
2) allows players to really get a feel for your game. If it is as excellent as you claim, then people will want to buy!

[SpringHeeledJack]

If someone has bought the game then they are not stealing a thing and have contributed already. Not many even make money anyway, a handful out of millions of uploaders.

[lilmetal]

The thing is, most of the people watching these videos are there for the personality, and couldn't give two Fish about what game is being played.

[Dee_91]

@Mr Pumblechook
First off, just because its illegal doesn't mean its wrong. Its illegal because of a greedy film industry.Second, and a video game and a movie are 2 different things..

But in reply to the topic.. WHAT A CROCK OF HORSES#IT.YOU don't tell advertisers to pay YOU for advertising YOUR stuff you douche..Lol I don't even know who is this guy is and I already hate him.Spewing greed propaganda needs to stay in the film industry and politics.You got your damn money when we bought the game the game.. THATS your ad- revenue share

[AndrewLB]

Dmarc- I think I saw that guy rooting through a dumpster behind a friends apartment the other day. He kept talking to people that weren't actually there. We commonly refer people who do that as "dealing with the committee". (those of you in the business world would understand)

[DARK WITNESS]

He is living up to his name - being a fish!

if anything the dev's/publishers should be paying youtubers. it's the youtubers sharing their gameplay videos that are advertising the game to other games.

If I stream a session of me playing Titanfall and talk about how awesome the game is and show off all the little tricks and how to own at the game and someone watches it and thinks it's cool, well they are more likely to go and buy it or if they have got it and they learn how to own at the game they are more likely to tell their friends to go and get it. who is really benefiting from me playing the game...

The youtubers are basically acting as affiliate for the devs' If you understand how they get paid, they are basically getting commission for promoting your product and your benefit is that the traffic coming to your product are buying it.

I do affiliate marketing myself. It's like me promoting a product on Amazon, amazon paying me a commission for a sale... and then amazon charging me for the privilege of being able to promote their product. How the F"^%£"^k does that make any sense?

[Zerotino]

@johndoe11211:

As much as I hate to agree with Phil, I kinda see his point. Some games I watch people play and yes 'I want to play this, I'm gonna get this'.

But I remember watching someone play through 'L.A. Noire' and thought the same thing, went to go buy it and started thinking 'Hold on, I know the story, I know who done it, there's nothing new I'm getting from this.' I chose not to get it.

Now thats not to say Phil is right, no he's totally wrong, but the point is still there.

[Visiblemarc]

Yeah, I saw Indie Game The Movie after the hype surrounding his insanity. I thought "surprising this guy put together such an awesome game, he seems to not have his stuff together in general."

Then I actually played Fez...

Imo, most overrated game I've played. Ok the art style is nice, and there's a zen-like simplicity to the core gameplay, but man imo, it tries way too hard to be some clever complex game.

I urge no one here to disagree with me unless you collected 100% without consulting internet guides. To me the game doesn't stand alone. Like. "Why can't I collect a bunch of the stuff?" Internet: "halfway through the game you're going to get some otherwise inscrutable code key that requires you to transcribe a bunch of symbols." Me "Oh I get it, this game is half-baked."

[VealParmHero]

This is easy for me to say since Indies are not something that interest me for the most part, but this guy does suck and needs to go away. Just an arrogant hipster with a childish need for attention.

I'd imagine conversation with him goes something like this: http://youtu.be/mxuwXczWQC0

[XiSasukeUchiha]

@Naruto

Should I put him in Izanami really quick?

[dredgewalker]

Movies and videogames are very different types of entertainment. A game is meant to be played so watching it on youtube does not constitute to piracy. These youtubers are giving the devs free advertising and sometimes even a seal of approval if the game is really good.

[Timesplitter14]

I can't believe he's back with this sort of attitude after what happened to him

[Gh05t]

Really? This sounds exactly like what I would have expected him to do. Right up his alley.

[killbillvolume12]

To me it sounds like he has ass burgers.

[frostypants]

He's got nothing more to offer as a developer and nobody likes him, but he wants to be considered relevant. I could see it.

[dillydadally]

Seriously. I've given him the benefit of the doubt in the past, but this language is just too damaging to the game industry to excuse.

Youtube videos are free publicity Phil. Watching them makes people buy your game. It's a synergistic benefit to both the video maker and the game developer, so why is he trying to fight it? He just can't stand that someone else is making money.

Anyone that decides he has experienced a video game enough by watching it instead of playing it would never have bought it in the first place. Honestly, the smartest thing to do is try to get as many people making Youtube videos as possible of your games and watch as they sell like hotcakes.

[fenome]

I know right. It's actually more like they are giving your game free publicity by showing it off to people. Free marketing for the win.

We can watch people stream games anywhere, the people who actually earn money by doing it are already established in their own right and have a fanbase that follows them specifically because of their online personality or whatever their 'niche' is.

It's not just because they played your one game that one time or anything like that, plus they are taking absolutely no revenue away from your game. Hell, they gave you revenue by buying in the first place.

This dude is such a drama queen, it's annoying. Never bought any of his games, never will. I'm not supporting him and his negative attitude.

Do it because you enjoy it or GTFO.

[shivvy24]

Ive bought alot of games from watching YouTube videos, I was 15 when uncharted 2 came out, I watched a vid and my balls dropped. Same goes with infamous, assassins creed, motorstorm and more

[rainslacker]

What's even funnier is that let's play helps indie games such as the one he made. If a big youtuber decided to do one of those, it's means quite a lot of exposure, which any indie developer will tell you is the number one hardest thing to get. Having the bad luck of having the number one game pick on iTunes during one week where iTunes decide to do it's own special thing not showing the top game picks means death to some developers.

I really don't know why this guy is even bothering to talk anymore. He decided to quite game development, and it's not like he has a huge portfolio under his belt. Some times people feel they're much more important than they really are.

Ever notice how those that have been doing this for a long time tend to be more reasonable and not talk down to their consumer base so much?

[Pandamobile]

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Timesplitter14]

hmmm... that's a pretty insightful video

[DragonKnight]

I thought he was this:

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[fenome]

I'm an asshole too though, everyone can be, just don't dish it out if you can't take it. It is what it is. I stand by what I say unless I stand corrected and then I'll man up to that as well. Nobody's always right and everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter what.

The point is that he sounds like he's taking it out on the community (his fanbase) when he comes out like this. He should actually be blasting Youtube and other sites that have these systems in place, not the little guys that are actually playing his game. People that post the vids only make a tiny fraction of the ad revenue that the actual sites make on the same exact videos. There're bigger Fish to fry.

I mean c'mon, what's next bashing a game review site for talking about your game and getting ad revenue?

Nobody's happy with a slice of the pie anymore, they want the whole damn bakery.

[HighResHero]

Great video for the most part!

[Octo1]

Best thing I watched all day

[morganfell]

Actually he is now in the regret stage - evidenced by his deleting his twitter account. I bet he wishes he had never opened that bottle of mezcal and then jumped on the internet.

[AndrewLB]

Ugh... last time I got into the Mezcal, it involved Tijuana, police, and them driving me to an ATM to bribe them for my freedom. I hate that pi$$ hole of a country.

[Darkstares]

He should integrate with the community more instead of being so abrasive all the time thinking everyone just pirates everything. YouTube and Twitch can be great channels for getting much needed advertising for indie games.

He's gotten himself caught up thinking he can police everything. His passion should remain on making games, not getting frustrated on things out of your control. Otherwise you just become some depressed dude who looks like they haven't showered in a week talking out loud to yourself.

[fenome]

That's exactly it, instead of blaming the comunity (his fanbase), he should be standing against the systems in place that allow this to happen. When he comes out like this he just sounds bitter, resentful, and money-grubbing.

[rainslacker]

That's exactly what Nintendo did, and I guess they came to some sort of accommodation with the Lets Players. I'm not sure how well it went over, as I don't really follow that scene, but at least they did something more productive that may ultimately work out for everyone involved.

[timemuffin]

Phil Fish is totes right. Say whatever you want about the "personalities" being the reason to watch these youtubers but if they weren't recording the work of someone else you would have no idea who ANY of them are. They are all the worst and are NEVER funny.

[SoulSercher620]

???

That's not what Phil was talking about at all.

[Heisenburger]

Replace acceptance with attention. ;)

[SilentNegotiator]

Aaaaand there goes my last shred of sympathy for him.

I'm sympathetic that he has had to single handedly deal with mountains worth of internet hate, but once you get greedy and anti-consumer, I just can't be bothered to deal with defending you, because you certainly don't care about the group I'm a part of (consumers).

[randomass171]

To be fair, if I was in his position, I'm not sure I would care about gamers either. Not even like I agree with him, but from his perspective I don't think his outlook on gamers is very positive.

[SlyFoxC]

god you just took me back through my Emergency Medical Responder class...

thank you for that trip!

[ITPython]

Ads... what ads? I use NoScript + ABP, I never see ads on YT (or anywhere on the net for that matter). Heck, nowadays I just download the video using something like Flashgot/DTA and bypass watching it on YT altogether (I get the highest quality video regardless of my net speed, no buffering and I can re-watch any part of the video on-demand instantly without having to worry about re-downloading or any of that).

Oh and those that upload gameplay vids and whatnot, it is essentially free advertising. Whatever ad revenue the ones uploading the video get is completely legitimate because they are actually advertisers for the game.

[LonDonE]

FISH has a face which just makes you feel like you want to punch him and knock him out then when he's down stamp on his face!!! the guy annoys the hell out of me! i still remember the conference of him and his buddies making a poor fellow Japanese gamer feel like shit for asking a question! they proper ganged up on him and treated him like shit!

And so when i saw fish had quit like a winging cry baby i was happy! the guy is a douche bag and we could do with less of his type in this industry we all so love.
Seriously the guy sounds and even looks like a spoiled brat 12 year old throwing a tantrum.
He should learn to STFU!!!!! nobody cares about his opinion, why he craves the spot light so much is beyond me! PEOPLE STOP GIVING THIS LOSER ATTENTION!!

Their are allot more kind respectable talented developers who deserve the attention of the gaming media and players!!!

[mmcglasson]

I see his face and I just want to punch it. Honestly... As many others have said, YouTube is a great way of providing free advertisement for many games. In fact maybe big companies should start advertising their games like this on YouTube. Have a developer make a video of himself playing the game, showing it off, and then upload it to YouTube. You are now advertising your product to millions of people, for free!

[windblowsagain]

Some of Those are valid reasons.

Making money from showing video's of a game is still using copyrighted material.

The only difference i can see is that Movies are made to be watched and games are meant to be played.

[3-4-5]

* So person A takes time out of their life to create a product.

* Person B, thinks it's ok to make money off of somebody else's idea, without having to compensate the creator ?

So people WANT to screw people over?

Why wouldn't you just want to be a nice human being and show your thanks and pay a small % for THEM TO ALLOW YOU to USE THEIR CONTENT.

* Person A did all the work.

* Person B wants to show everybody that work, but then, make money off of it, even though it's now their work.

Interesting.

[Gh05t]

You assume person B is doing ZERO work. You are saying all these people that arrive to their site only do so because of only the developers work.

Not to mention it is exponentially generated. Lets just say FEZ generated person B 100,000 views. Those views aren't all because the title. They are because the followers who have been there for a while continue to come back. Do you really think that Fez deserves more revenue because it had 100,000 views but GTA4 which was showed years ago only got 1000 views because person B was just starting?

The amount generated is not a correlation of the title viewed but rather the result of MANY developers work but most importantly it is a result of person B and the work they put into the videos.

Also if Person B generated game sales for person A does person A pay person B?

Lets also not forget person A did get paid for a copy of the game. Only one person is PLAYING it and others in order to PLAY have to buy a copy themselves.

[MetaReapre]

In the words of totalbiscuit, "of all the people to start this debate..."

Seriously, he's the worst kind of person... But on the topic, you can't compare movies to video games and vice versa, they are way to different. Also I could agree if the let's players were doing a game heavily bases on its story, an example would be a final fantasy game, as it would be the reason you play the game, fez... Is not one of those kinds of games...

[assdan]

Yeah, I really don't like this guy at all? I don't think I'd get any game made by this guy just to protest him. I don't care how good any of the crap he made is. Also, does this guy realize that "youtubers" are generating free ad revenue for them. The final decision to buy several games that I currently own was because I watched gameplay on youtube. So tired of this guy, and I just wish he'd stop talking.

[Bobby Kotex]

Didn't this guy quit game dev? The attention whoring is strong with this one.

[geddesmond]

Is this guy serious, the reason many people watch youtubers videos is for their sometimes funny or outraged commentary. It's also free advertisement for the games. Theres a reason why so many people have thousands of followers while others have only a few even though they are showning the same game and its nothing to do with the game. Its to do with that persons attitude. The amount of games I bought over the years after seeing someone on youtube play it and thought that looked funny.

I don't go to these revenue based review sites for game opinions. I go to the real gamers who give their honest opinion. WTF is Fez anyway.

[DefenderOfDoom2]

Everybody goes thru rough times in their life./ For everybody reading this article/ I think that PHIL PHISH is just playing mind games with people on the internet! Really should check out some YOUTUBE videos, featuring the famous comedian ANDY KAUFMAN ! They also did a movie about ANDY KAUFMAN with JIM CAREY called MAN ON THE MOON. PHIL PHISH is a big fan of ANDY KAUFMAN. I think if PHIL PHISH makes another great game for us to play , then who really cares about what he says! I think he is just trying to imitate ANDY KAUFMAN, except he is a well known video game developer , and not a well known comedian. One last thing. I think this "youtube gameplay debate" is the best debate on N4G in the last 4 years . I know a lot a people here at N4G who do gameplay videos on YOUTUBE are affected by YOUTUBE/GOOGLE policies . And i think we are long way from a solution. Hopefully they will figure out a way to make everybody happy!

[KinjoTakemura]

No wonder Fez sucks.

[SilentNegotiator]

Come on now...just because you dislike the developer, doesn't mean that you can rewrite history.

http://www.metacritic.com/g...

[KinjoTakemura]

Metacritic 89 based on 66 reviews.

Metacritic user review 6.3 based on 330 user reviews.

66 vs 330... I'd have to say that FEZ sucks.

[TripC50]

I enjoyed FEZ.

[BlindMango]

@KinjoTakemura

Even though the developer of Fez can be a bit annoying, the game is very fantastic, almost genius in how it works - especially the more you play it. And placing the infamous "Metacritic user reviews" over professional reviews is not very smart, because most people know that Metacritic reviews are run by fanboy bias and in this case, people who dislike the developer drama.

[nidhogg]

Oh come on. Fez was awesome.

[SouthClaw]

Hmmm so developers cannot beat retailers for selling pre-owned games so they start on people making videos. Once again does any other industry moan and want more money? No it is bull. You have a higher price point than movies and still want more. You sell content as an addon which could have been part of the game and still you want more. Pathetic.

[BrianG]

If you want ad revenue how about making a YouTube channel and creating entertaining content.

You act as if these YouTubers are not putting in some type of work. It's a day job for the ones being paid enough to live off of it.

BTW Phil, movies are entertaining for their VIEWING experience, video games are entertaining for their INTERACTIVE experience. You'd still buy Fez if you wanted to enjoy it, shoot, I bet you got more sales because of these so called Pirates that open you're game up to their viewers.

You're in the industry for the wrong reasons Phil.

[SpiralTear]

The problem is that some people AREN'T putting effort into their videos. They're monetizing content without any editing, commentary or post-production.

I'm all for supporting people like JonTron or The Completionist, because they actually make game videos and don't just record the game with a silent facecam in the corner. They deserve a cut of the revenue because they put EFFORT into their videos.

But there are people who will simply record gameplay, submit it to Youtube, and claim that they own everything in it. I can't say that they deserve much reward with that little effort.

[Tetsujin]

The whole argument about YouTube and people making money off video game footage is an argument I'm not getting involved with. My static is Phil whining on the internet AGAIN about something that he could have easily avoided by just keeping his mouth shut. Phil is part the reason why a lot of game developers aren't being seen seriously. I lost all respect for Phil when he let a journalist decide his fate of the game industry; and what makes it worse is there's other devs with WORSE reputation yet still actively involved with the video game scene.

When I enter the gaming industry the LAST thing I'm gonna do is whine like a punk and "quit" the industry because someone has a different opinion about my games/projects. There's this thing called opinions, and if someone doesn't like your games, so what. For every one fan that doesn't like your games, there's 2+ that do.

Edit:
I also wanted to add if it wasn't for YouTube there's a lot of games I wouldn't have played, or even tried (I'm referring to the ones that don't have a demo). I know Phil had a whole different argument however I wanted to throw that in there just in case.

[randomass171]

Fish's leave had nothing to do with anyone's opinions. It had to do with receiving tons of hate online, being publicly ousted by Marcus Beer and being socially inept to deal with these situations. If I were in his shoes I'd have bailed too.

[rainslacker]

" For every one fan that doesn't like your games, there's 2+ that do."

The ratio is much bigger than that. People are very vocal and very negative on the internet. Haters gonna hate and all that. Fez was very well received, but Phil decided to focus on the negative.

@random
Much of the hate directed at Phil was because he fed the trolls. He went negative, and ended up saying a lot of stupid things that offended those that actually enjoyed his work. In the end his own ego was his undoing, because he couldn't just accept that he couldn't please everyone, and that he shouldn't bother focusing on those that he couldn't please.

There are developers out there that get this kind of hate on a daily basis, yet they don't react to it individually, and only address concerns that creep into their fan base.

[garrettbobbyferguson]

They're putting in effort, but they're still using someone else's copyrighted material, their intellectual property to make money.

[BrianG]

If it were a problem or illegal everyone would be complaining about it.

Phil Fish is just money hungry. He isn't doing the commentary, so why should a "Large" portion, or any portion for that matter of the ad revenue go to him?

It's free exposure. Obviously not enough for Phil's taste though.

[soandsoz]

"They're putting in effort, but they're still using someone else's copyrighted material, their intellectual property to make money."

I fail to see how that is any different than someone creating a 'how-to-play-this-song' ; video for guitar, piano, drums etc. Let alone, some 'Joe' reviewing movies or music, or creating tutorials on how to use a given piece of software.

It leaves the consumer feeling like the developer is way too greedy if you ask me. It's difficult to defend his words/actions IMO

[Cyb3r]

I thought Phil Fish got washed up

[SpiralTear]

He did, but he came back on Twitter just so he could say this stuff, then removed his profile again.

[fenome]

He washed up, but I guess he hasn't beached himself yet..

[Sy_Wolf]

Why won't he just go away? He has to be somewhere on the autism scale...

[MasterChief3624]

He might place on the Autism scale, but what does that have to do with anything? Yeah he can be a douche, but bringing up the possibility of Autism gives a very negative connotation of the mental disability. It's rude. No matter how true it could be, it's just plain rude.

It's like wondering if someone who sucks at Geography is mentally handicapped. Calling them "Retarded." It is the same connotation, and that is to say it's mean.

[Sy_Wolf]

I actually have autism as well as some LDs and some other weird stuff. Making a simple observation as to why he acts the way he does isn't rude, treating people who are different with kid gloves however is. Saying someone has autism and putting someone down by calling them retarded are two entirely different things. Lots of technology geniuses are on the autism scale, it's part of the trade. You sound like you're trying to be nice and fair, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Not your fault, most politically correct stuff is incredibly offensive.

[MasterChief3624]

@Sy_Wolf - The way your original comment sounded, the designation that Phil could have Autism came out of nowhere and seemed more like you were using it as a means to make him out to be a bad person.

And I take offense that you think I know nothing about Autism. I have Asperger's, so I even place on the Autism scale. I know plenty about it, thanks.

[Summons75]

Oh go cry somewhere else, they aren't, you're wrong, get over yourself.

[crazysammy]

Its sad when someone who is smart enough to conceptualize a game and then complete said game (Like Fez or not its the truth that completing it was impressive) but has NO CLUE OR UNDERSTANDING OF THE CUSTOMERS!

These people are advertising the game (at no cost to the developer) and growing awareness for the title. This guy has no clue.

[ChickeyCantor]

Since when is advertisement "Here let me show you the complete video game "?

[MoveTheGlow]

The played-live, seconds-long ringtone of the Rocky theme in the film "Mad Hot Ballroom" cost the documentary producers a ton of money to the theme song copyright holders. The idea is that EMI owned the rights to the song, and people enjoyed something in the movie due to EMI's property, not as a criticism or parody of it - that would have deemed it "transformative" and therefore Fair Use.

It's a complicated thing - people make a ton of ad revenue just by doing things about Minecraft on YouTube. Game Theory releases a ton of great videos, but when do the views go up? Minecraft. It's criticism, and therefore Fair Use, so it works. But if you're just recording your Minecraft building, is that transformative enough? Does the composer of the music deserve a cut? I don't know. Honestly, it would be really tough to distinguish the difference from just recording a directly-ripped playthrough of Asura's Wrath with that. Yes, *you* make things in Minecraft, and Asura's Wrath is basically an interactive series of anime episodes, but where does the line get drawn on transformative works?

This is a SHORT version of what I think about copyright policy, piracy, and YouTube, and lawyers have a much longer spiel to dish out on either side, as does the US Code. I don't think Fish should have jumped to that conclusion - this is too complicated for a statement like that - but I feel the same way about what Nintendo did, and what the auto-scanners of tunes on YouTube are currently doing to review/criticism videos.

As far as Fish goes, I think he could benefit from more exposure to Fez out there, not less of it, for free, to boost his (of course small at this point, given the release date) sales.

[SonyMontana]

This guy just really can't help himself can he?

[our_games_are_art]

Awesome name my pals would get a kick outta that >_<

[SonyMontana]

Thanks!

[stavrami-mk2]

This geezer is a fool

[odderz]

Man's vexing but mandem ain't no dev no more.

[Sharky231]

It's a shame such a talented guy can't shut the hell up!

[matrixman92]

Thanks for making my choice to not buy ur game easier

[soandsoz]

"Thanks for making my choice to not buy ur game easier "

+1

[Mexxan]

greedy F. Youtube vids are one of the best marketing tools for devs. He's just gutted that he hasn't got a million views for some mediocre yet overhyped shite he churned out.

[gamerfan0909]

Why should youtubers who already paid for the game pay you for their lets plays that they have to edit, capture, and produce? What kind of logic is this? Phil Fez is a great game, but you're a delusional Piece of garbage. Get out of the industry pronto.

[DefenderOfDoom2]

to gamerfan0909 / Why did VANILLA ICE have to share the profits of ICE ICE BABY with QUEEN and DAVID BOWIE? Vanilla Ice's record label bought the original QUEEN LP with UNDER PRESSURE on it. Also they had to rent the studio, pay sound mixers, promoters, record plants to produce records. payola to radio stations , distributors , ect.. to produce ICE ICE BABY. Using your argument , do you believe QUEEN and DAVID BOWIE did not deserve to share the profits of ICE ICE BABY?

[gamerfan0909]

How does this compare to that? These YOUTUBERS PAID FOR THE GAME. They're not sampling the game, they actually paid for their copy of the game and uploading footage of it. Your comparison is idiotic.

[ChickeyCantor]

"They're not sampling the game"

No they are just showing the entire game. The youtuber is making money off of their IP.

That's the issue.

[gamerfan0909]

So if I post videos of my Mustang after I purchase it should I give ford my ad revenue? Your analogy is flawed. They bought their rights for the game outright. Period. Song sampling without compensation and lets plays on video games are no where near the same thing. I buy the game, there's no laws against me showing the game to others through media, and I get compensated because my said game gets views.

If Phil wants to be compensated then he should make a youtube channel and do a lets play of Fez and Fez 2 and reap the rewards of those benefits. The hard truth is that Lets plays bring more money to the dev publisher than it takes away. It's free advertising at best and this is a case of a dev trying to double dip.

If you notice Sony and Microsoft are ENCOURAGING lets plays. Why is that? Why are they allowing their tech to so easily have these games streamed, ported to youtube, and shared? Because it's free advertising. Simple as that.

[ChickeyCantor]

Of course you would compare a car to an interactive game. I stopped reading there, sorry.

It's simply, this is not whether about I agree with them or not. It's people using IP's that they don't own to make money with.

If you made money by using your mustang as your main selling point. Then yes, there is a big chance they can sue you over this.

It's not about ownership of the product that was sold to you it's the IP you are using to make money off. There is a big difference.

[our_games_are_art]

May be an unpopular opinion but I think its his product/content he should be able to feel however he wants about it. It is a tad more touchy a subject that say using someone's song in a video...

[Gh05t]

Do you pay the devs when you watch your friend play the game on the couch?

How about a more public idea.

Do you pay the devs when you watch someone playing a game at the arcade?

Videos are meant to be seen and you are not allowed to show it publicly without an agreement.

Music is meant to be heard and you can not play it publicly without an agreement.

Games are meant to be played and lately you have to have an agreement to allow a game to be played publicly.

There was a lot of garbage that came out from cyber cafes ability to buy one license but charge customers the ability to play a game.

But to say that streaming a game takes away money from a dev is a stretch and just plain greedy. Especially a game like fez where there are very few cut scenes. Now I could see metal gear solid making this point as its basically an interactive movie but FEZ! c'mon!

[DefenderOfDoom2]

reply to gamerfan0909 4th bubble / Your reply makes no sense . Again, you are saying "if you buy a copyrighted product, you have the right to do anything you want with it, is wrong . It is illegal to make money off copyrighted video games, music , movies,ect.., without permission from the record label ,movie studio , or video game studio. Also read GhO5t 2 bubble, i agree with everything he said in his 2nd bubble! {thanks Gh05t} Being a DJ myself and playing music for millions of people , live and on the radio ,breaking out new music for the record labels, i have permission from the record labels to play their music without paying them a penny! It works the same for video games! Most video game publishers will not go after YOUTUBERS playing their games, because they are promoting their games!So i guess i agree with your opinion GAMERFAN0909. Here is the funny thing about this article> I think PHIL PHISH is just messing around and having a good time reading our response to what he said!If you who ANDY KAUFMAN is, you will understand what i am talking about. CHEERS everybody!

[our_games_are_art]

You make a lot of good points. I'd die before I waive my right to enjoy something I bought in public. But idk I'm just saying I can understand how he( a div) may or may not feel. I guess this is a growing pain of the age of information. Thank you for your frank and courteous response I am better informed because of it.

[Yodagamer]

In other words "how dare you pay me, pay me more!". This is almost as hilarious as him saying Japanese games suck even though his game was clearly inspired by them.

[MurdochR]

LOL man this guy is a piece of work. It's free promotion for people to buy your game if anything.

[gamerfan0909]

Of course it's free promotion. I would've never bought a ps3 or played uncharted 1 unless I saw a lets play of uncharted on youtube. Right then and there I bought a ps3 and uncharted the following week. It's free promotion and it gets people buying your product when they wouldn't have.

[gamerfan0909]

Also, Phil, if I buy electronics and I do walkthroughs of how those electronics work, should I have to pay the OEM's also? Or does this only apply to games in your own warped minds? A lot of these dudes like Radbrad, Pewdiepie, Hasan, ect do this as a full time job and you want to take food off of their families table for what? Dude you're not hurting for money neither are the devs making 80 grand a year to animate trees and and grass.

[mydyingparadiselost]

I personally will go and buy a game if I watch a Let's Play and it looks like it's my kind of thing. Hell, I'll even replay games when I'm watching an LP.
This guy also seems to have forgotten what being a customer is like, especially in an environment where so few companies can be trusted to deliver on their promises on gameplay, graphics etc. Let's plays help me find out if your game is worth the trouble of spending money on, which if you've made a good game there shouldn't be any worries about that.
Next you'll be telling me my friends have to pay royalties for letting me watch them play a game.

[mep69]

Wow, never understood the hate thrown at this guy till now.

What a dick. Soooo basically he doesn't want his game getting adverted for free on youtube by dedicated games who just want to make a little money doing what they love ¬_¬

The viewers watching these videos he condemns are all potential customers of his (or any game developers) and he wants to make an extra bit of cash out of it -_-

What a loser. It's the same with film trailers as well, my dad has a British film website and some of the greedy arseholes in the industry take down the trailers he's uploaded where he's spent his time uploading it and giving it free publicity. One company even got youtube to reverse monetize it.

Rant over.

[randomass171]

"Soooo basically he doesn't want his game getting adverted for free on youtube by dedicated games who just want to make a little money doing what they love ¬_¬"

Isn't that just spinning it? I thought the whole idea was dissatisfaction with people making money using his work without his permission.

[mep69]

That's the whole point. I'm giving my argument against his. You shouldn't have to ask for his permission. This is nothing like steaming a film online, you don't talk over a film stream.
The guy is just an idiot and the game industry doesn't have time for people like him.

[randomass171]

The man is a creative genius for his work on Fez and he's allowed to have his opinions if nothing else.

[mep69]

As am I allowed to have mine. At the end of the day he's still a prick for having such a greedy opinion.

[yokokoroma]

Stealing would be making copies of said game, and selling them for profit. A youtuber doing let's plays or walkthroughs, is essentially advertising a developers game. The mindset of some of these developers is that of a child, who is unable to yet comprehend things logically.

[mep69]

Yep, people like that are doing it purely for the money and not the love of it. Can't stand them.

[XxExacutionerxX]

I think Phil got very lazy with FEZ 2, he just didn't want to do the game anymore.

If someone does a short clips review of a game or multiplayer matches, thats fine. Its not good to do a full walkthough of a single player game because people do watch that instead of buying and playing the game.

[Menkyo]

I liked Fez but now Im kind of depressed I bought this douche bags game.

[Myzery]

Unpopular opinion... Phil is right. I'm not saying he should get all the revenue generated from youtube, but a fair portion of it. He as a creator MADE the game others are profiting from. Without his creation those youtubers wouldn't have anything to generate their own content with. Yes, while doing lets plays is a form of potential advertisement throwing up a full game from beginning to end isn't. If a game is heavily story/puzzle driven being able to watch an entire play through absolutely lowers my willingness to purchase the said game. It'd be the same as a movie I had already seen. Sure, I might pick it up on sale or heavily discounted, but not doing the prime time of a games life which is within the first 3 months of release.

[iceman600]

"YouTubers Are Stealing From Game Developers"

lol says the quitter

[Dan_scruggs]

He's right. If I spent 2 years creating something from scratch and then someone put the whole thing on youtube and started making money on it then I would damn sure want some of that money. The youtubers revenue stream would even exist if it weren't for the all the work put into making the game. So the thought is that game developers should share their creative property with you but you don't share anything with them. Especially not money because as I learned for a movie that cant be streamed for free on the internet even if I bought it "Greed is Good".

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I so want to like this guy but man he makes it almost impossible.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Phil Fish sayd a lot of things, but does anyone really care at this point?

[jmac53]

That's it! Let's all stream Fez from our PS4s!

[Keith22]

Phil Trout

[LightDiego]

Looks like that dude from Gametrailers is right: "Blowfish".

[mcarsehat]

Phil Fish is a massive tw@t, but i think those Youtube "Personalities" are the most annoying self-centred Mutants to ever emerge from a woman's bowel cave.

It's a draw, the should all go and live in the woods, so they can entertain themselves without the Internet.

[ramza04]

God this attention starved idiot. Movies and video games are two totally different forms of entertainment. You don't actually play and interact with a movie where the sole form of consumption is just watching it. A video game is meant to be played which simply watching it on YouTube does not provide. Try harder for attention fish.

[EliteGameKnight]

"If you buy a movie, are you then allowed to stream the entirety of it publicly for people to watch for free? No, because that's illegal."

That would be a good point if video games, like movies, were made to be watched. watching gameplay isn't the same as actually playing the game. which is why lets play do well at promoting games, because people see them and are like, "yeah, I wanna play that!"

[uth11]

He's right. With any other medium- movies, TV shows, music, theater. You would need permission and/or to pay royalties to broadcast it. You can claim fair use to a point, but that wouldn't cover something as extensive as many of these let's play videos.

I don't see why they shouldn't get a cut.

[bleedsoe9mm]

they can give some leeway for advertising your product , but if they stream the whole game giving away every secret and moment of the game they should pay .

[randomass171]

I agree with that. That would be a good compromise.

[HappyWithOneBubble]

I see where he's coming from. There are youtubers who get millions like PewDiePie for filming games he never made while the devs that put long hours into making these games make 100K or less yearly.

I'm sure other devs are piss too that someone who didn't contribute to making a game get millions from their hard work. It's up to youtube, twitch, and other sites to make sure the devs get some of the cut.

[uth11]

exactly

With revelations like that. I'm sure the clamor from game developers is only going to grow much louder.

[PersonMan]

I think most of the people who watch game videos own or have played the game they're watching.

In my mind, I want to experience the game myself, not watch someone else play it.

[Novistador]

Everyone should start streaming gameplay videos of Fez. Just to annoy him.

[ICANPLAYGAMES2]

Well if Devs or Producers want a piece of the ad. rev. pie then maybe they should give out free copies of their games to the lets players, no? In that case, I agree with the sentiment that they were already compensated by the lets players buying the games.

[HonestDragon]

Phil Fish is back complaining again, huh? So, nothing particularly new when it comes to someone trying to voice their opinion like it's gold. Jonathon Blow can be added to that, too.

[Th3o]

Comparing games to a movie is like comparing playing a sport to watching sports.

Movies YOU ONLY watch which is why you shouldn't youtube them. So their only income comes from ppl watching them, people watching them free = no income.

Now games are PLAYED, so ppl watching them on youtube will only want to increase their need to play the game...while with a movie...if you saw for free on youtube you'll be an idiot if you buy it (again idiot for argument sake...I know some people love to own the movies they saw in order to support the creator + their hobby/love for the movie).

Please don't compare Movies to Games....it makes you sound down right stupid.

[diesoft]

Oh, Phil. Is being a d-bag REQUIRED for you to make games?

Didn't you throw a big pu**y hissy fit and cancel Fez 2 because people were being big meanies?

[ChiliPants]

phil with more arrogant bullshit. people playing games on youtube is free advertisement that is worth hand over fist more than payment from fucking ad revenue. you dont want a lot of people to see what your game is like so they are curious to play it themselves, phil? what a fucking moron

[arbitor365]

fez is good, but this dude is a punk

[sovkhan]

Go chew on some grass greedy moron!!!

[DVAcme]

Since Phil Fish retired from the gaming industry, he should kindly shut the fuck up and not opine on anything gaming-related.

I swear, Phil Fish and Peter Molyneux make me want to punch them til they shit chunks of lung every time they open their mouth.

[RexDD]

I really hate Phil Fish. Don't start saying he is right just because he created Fez. This is a guy that literally insulted every JRPG recently released by laughing at a japanese enthusiast to his face when he asked Phil what he thought of japanese games. He is the guy that quit making Fez 2 because people criticized him. Boohoo like if that doesn't happen to freaking everyone! It's the internet!

Now he tries to get more attention, saying something as stupid as this. Hey Phil, haven't you sat down and thought maybe Fez wouldn't have done so well if it wasn't promoted through youtube and gaming websites? I mean one of the gameplay videos on youtube has half a million views! Don't you think AT LEAST half of them bought your game?

I usually don't rage like this but dammit this guy is the worst thing that could happen to the industry. Fez was great, he is a great developer, but he has the personality of a smart ass hipster who thinks he is better than everyone.

Inb4 butthurt.
/end rant

[feraldrgn]

It is a questionable topic,
but there are SO many games I & others wouldn't give the time of day because we don't have any idea what they're like until we see gameplay from an LP'er.
LP'ers increase game sales, no question about it.

[SmokeyBear]

Fez!

[KinjoTakemura]

If Phil Fish wants a cut of youtubers payments for "using games to make youtube videos," then Phil Fish has to pay youtubers a percentage of each game he sales because youtubers are giving his game free advertising. This idiot doesn't realize the can of worms he's about to open.

[DVAcme]

Right on the money. He doesn't realize that he's on the winning side of this particular equation.

[FrostyZipper]

In other news, Phil Fish is still a batshit insane asshole. Next topic please, this hack's as relevant as the Black Plague.

[Hayabusa 117]

Thank you Phil, I now officially hate you. I'm glad I never got round to buying your game now.

You (Phil) are a game developer. You make money from making and selling your games. Youtubers are video makers, they make money from making and promoting their videos. If anything, it's theft if THEIR revenue goes into the pocket of someone who didn't make the video.

[hazelamy]

fair use, look it up.

[Einhert]

Why does anyone give this clown attention?

This is a pure clickbait article using this guys big mouth as a source of controversy.

[PowerNerd101]

I didn't like Fez, but appreciate that people did. This guy needs to shut up, stop trying to be 'a personality' and either get lost or get on with his next game.

[jordan8445]

He's right. I laughed when manbabies on YouTube bitched and whined late last year that they couldn't live off playing games on the couch.

[MilkMan]

Hes got a point. Cant make 4 mil a year from youtubing game related stuff...if they aren't your games. They are other peoples games. At the very least some percentage should go back.

Bottom line is, ANY revenue made from other peoples work should go back to the source. If you didn't create it, then give something back. I mean what are these youtubers famous for anyway? Famous for being famous?
GTFO!

Give back to the real creative geniuses, the ones that slaved over code and didn't see their families for months on end. Not some fools that either look good on camera, or have good video editing skills or women with big breast asking if dogs can think.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

What about all the encoding and editing? Oh I guess Microsoft should get a cut because you use their OS while making video, adobe because you use their encoding software. Nividia because you happen to have their graphics card, oh yeah who could forget AMD and their i7? They need a cut too.

Let's be real, the only effort and work being made is from the guy making the video. The dev got their due when the game was purchased. Playing a game and watching a video about a game are two different things. Also these game video serve as advertisement. That's a major benefit, no?

[MilkMan]

No.

All those companies you mentioned got their money upfront (maybe) Cause as you know, folks love to torrent and steal. This is why the cloud and DRM run rampant.
Not even the hardware we can say was paid for. Maybe that was stolen as well or gifted.
Same with software (games).

See that's the nature of the beast.

However, for the sake of argument lest say the hardware was paid for.

Every bit of software was torrented.
Advertisement? Thats a cheap excuse. Doesn't amount for man hours...plus all of these youtubers cannot make themselves the designated public face of any game, or game company.
These images are carefully manufactured. Any PR person will tell you this.

A lets play is one thing, when you start to make millions of a lets play video then we go into other waters, and this is America. You gotta pay the piper.

What we need is legislation. Sorry, but stealing is stealing.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

He misses the fact that games are an experience which you control. Movies are not.

Playing a game and watching a game are two very different things.

[SnakeCQC]

Yes free advertisements from people who legally bought your game is wrong and is piracy /s. This guys gets no more sympathy from me.

[plmkoh]

Every cafe, restaurant, club, bar and store that plays recorded media on speakers are legally required to pay a royalty. This is why 'elevator music', is always has that type of sound, you avoid royalties.

In the same context, the logic is everytime you use media for your production you should be pay a royalty. The reality is how many people would actually watch a grown man scream out his lungs on video if it weren't for the game he was playing. For the same reason how many people would go to a club if it weren't mixing in some of those tracks.

This is what this douche head means, he's just a bad communicator.

[NixonMonoxide]

I'm trying to care about your invalid as piss point Phil; seeing movies and VGs aren't the same thing at all.

I also didn't like Fez.
If you're not going to make bloody games for your fanbase, I suggest you have a nice cup of S T F U.

[Perjoss]

Ah Phil Fish, great games developer but terrible, terrible at any kind of public relations.

I think he kind of has a point. When you buy a game you are essentially getting 3 things: graphics, sound and gameplay. When you watch a full lets play on you tube you are kind of getting the graphics and sound for free.

As mentioned before, yes many people (myself included) buy games based on lets plays they have seen on you tube, but this makes me very curious about 1 thing, what if the lets plays only showed half of the entire game? would they encourage more or less sales? for 1 thing you would not get that 'well I've seen the ending now so...' feeling you get from watching the entire series.

[e-p-ayeaH]

"When you watch a full lets play on you tube you are kind of getting the graphics and sound for free. "

Quite the dilema, walking dead games for example are mostly cutscenes for the most part so its not surprising that most ppl end up watching it on youtube instead and i agree that gives the game much less sales.

Videogame footage needs to be controled or else ppl end up getting most of the experience just by watching videos.

[e-p-ayeaH]

He might have made a good point but i still hate him

[wannabe gamer]

what about all the youtube channels that dont get revenue but people still do lets plays and all that stuff. they show the same content but are not popular so they dont get enough hits to matter.

[F4sterTh4nFTL]

Youtube helps make more money for developers by giving their games lots of free publicity which results in more game sales.

[GhostofHorizon]

Next thing you know is that IGN, GameSpot, Giants Bomb etc. will have to pay companies to show off their games.

You want a preview of our game? We'll take half the money you earn. What's that, a review you said, how about three quarters of the revenue our way.

There are some games that are very story dependent where I can see people not wanting to play it, but it doesn't seem like they want to play it in first place, just see the story. Which they can find just about anywhere.

There's not a single person out there though that sees a Minecraft video and thinks to themselves "Well, I got all I needed from Minecraft there in those 30min of watching someone play it." It's a game, there's a difference between watching and playing it.

[desertpunk86]

close your legs phil i smell fish....

[BlackOni]

I'm sorry Fish, but you are absolutely wrong on this. This is literally free advertising, publishers don't CHARGE people to put up advertisements on their sites, it's literally the exact opposite. Yes, a story can be spoiled if you watch a full gameplay of the entire game, but I think I speak for most, when I say most people would RATHER NOT even have the story spoilers in place. I've bought several games based on impressions from youtubers, and as a youtuber myself, I've had a hand in helping several developers get more attention and publicity.

You are just plain wrong. More money is always nice, but what you're discussing here sounds more like greed...

[Vanfernal]

So people are BUYING his game and on top of that giving it FREE PROMOTION which is something great for ANY product and he still decides to cry about it. This guy is a joke. I can't take this guy seriously with his whinny attitude and temper tantrums. Like the time he cancelled Fez 2 because of some Tweets. The industry doesn't need you Fish. Go away.

[frostypants]

Oh shut up you cross eyed, emo wuss.

[Si-Fly]

Somebody post him a £10 note, that's probably all he's 'owed'.

[Tzuno]

i only see a deranged man who need a complete shave.

[donwel]

Funny that Phillet o'Fish is talking about stealing, especially considering that pretty much everything in fez is stolen from other, better games.

[RandomGamer]

This guy .... he made one game and he thinks people give a shit about him or his opinion, add the fact that FEZ is and was pure shit I will never understand this guy inflated ego.

[NotoriousJae]

YouTube is why I bought the last of us :D

[Goro]

This guy again? really? who takes his opinion seriously anymore? YouTubers give free advertising for game developers and the money they make in most cases doesn't come from the gaming industry.

[RoseSapphire]

Phil, you're an idiot. You've always been an idiot. I regret to inform you that it is incurable.

[TheFallen1327]

eff this guy

[RickHiggity]

This douche. I was hoping he'd stay retired.

[Soldierone]

Here's a thought, and I may be really reaching for simple logic here, but..... why not make your own videos and earn the same money?

Oh that's right, you don't want to put in the effort, time, and probably don't offer the same entertainment value..... so what's the problem?

[christrules0041]

Really Phil. People don't have an infinite money glitch in real life and they use youtube videos to decide what to buy. If you want almost everybody to buy your game make a better product.

[mopground]

the only reason ive bought indie games is from watching lets play vids/streams. otherwise you just dont know if its worth the money

[PiNkFaIrYbOi]

Why is he still even relevant to gaming?

[PiNkFaIrYbOi]

Why is he still relevant to gaming?

Sorry for the repost, site went all crazy when we first posted it, but comment didn't show up until we reposted the same comment.

[wannabe gamer]

i bet whats going on here is that Mr Fish is running out of money and after canceling Fez 2 in a fit of childish rage he now is trying desperately to find another way to make money and is extremely bitter about seeing others profit from his game via youtube videos. either way this guy is a sad sad man.

[TakahashiDemon]

Oh.. this guy again. Youtubers give developers feedback (something this guy clearly doesn't like) and promote their games, there has been quite a few games that I wouldn't have even thought about purchasing other than the fact I seen some lets players which made the game look interesting, so there's your share, make interesting games.

[Thomaticus]

I can't wait to play the game that these youtubers make from all this stolen game footage.