Ryse’s Marius Originally Had 130 Million Polygons, 147,456 × 147,456 Textures Before Optimization

It was pretty interesting to see the reaction of the internet when CryTek announced that the polygon count of Marius from Ryse: Son of Rome was reduced from 150,000 polygons to 85,000 due to optimization, but his initial numbers were actually much higher than that.

[Eonjay]

Makes complete sense. I have seen model comparisons and you would be surprised how good low poly models compare to their high count originals. Not withstanding the incredible quality of CG; you can get acceptable visual quality from models that wont break you computer in half.

[Abriael]

One day, my son, one day we'll have that kind of visual fidelity actually playing in our games.

I might be 50 by then, but it'll happen :D

And I mean 130 million after optimization.

[TheOneWhoIsTornApart]

Do you remember the rumor a while back about Uncharted 4 having 1 million poly character models?. If anyone can pull that off its Naughty Dog. It will also be pushed further than that this generation too I'm willing to bet.

[Dee_91]

Its really pointless.. you can get a perfectly good, real looking model with a fraction of 130 million polys..
But that is insane though.. They probably model every bump and thread lol

[nypifisel]

You better hope the development tools improves a hell of a lot or you'll see a game per decade :>

[gaffyh]

130 million poly model probably accounted for a lot of smoothing. Its perfectly normal to drop down from a number like that as normal mapping and bump mapping tend to give great results in the end.

[showtimefolks]

Abriael

50 or 150? lol

[ShinMaster]

A lot of character models in other games had millions of polygons originally before downscaling for the game.

[Ritsujun]

Poor bone.

[fossilfern]

Why would you? Its the law of diminishing returns. Having all those polygons would be kind of pointless in terms of performance and only benefit the fanboys and the ego of the developer.

[PurpHerbison]

By the time that happens I will have probably been pushed so far away from video games by future business decisions.

[Aery]

Zbrush is one of my favorite tool ever. I love it.

[Geoff900]

Well considering they use a rendering farm to render the models, yes they are going to look great.

After they create the models and are happy with them, they lower the pixel count, so that they can achieve what they want with the game/hardware etc.

Although many people think PC's/consoles have unlimited power, they have massive limitations, compared to what servers have.

A films CGI can use a million polygons just for a face of a character for instance.

Truth is developers have to scale what they are doing, for a multitude of reasons, inc PC.

They have to consider the average specs of peoples computers, the frame rate, resolutions, frame drops, crashing, bugs, tearing, although PC's have higher tier hardware, it still has to be considered.

As games get more and more complex, development will take longer and longer to develop, thus meaning having more powerful hardware won't give you the best looking game, it's already starting to happen now.

[Magicite]

Before Optimization? What optimization? This game is technical nightmare.

[Tomden02]

Still best looking game on any system to date

[enfestid]

"Technical nightmare" must have a new meaning.

[fr0sty]

Most games do this, even PS3/360 games. Start with a super high detailed model, then use it to build your normal maps, then make a lower poly model and normal map it to give the illusion of more detail.

[Mariusmssj]

If only they spent more time on the story and the game-play itself we might have had a good game. Now they made these characters which could not even actually work, that is just time wasted.

[system22]

a good shader/texture goes a long ways on low poly geo. pretty good these days.

[PudgeySan]

hmmm... You would think they would call it De-optimization considering its going from an optimal state to a non optimal state.

[Scenarist]

Matter of fact its the norm to create hi res models and then "bake" them. Still keeps all of the details of the high res models .. and the only way to tell the difference in real world terms, as far as games anyway, depends on how realistic the lighting system is.. (and for realtime lights we dont have to worry about that this gen)

[Convas]

Man oh man. Crytek did some incredible work with Ryse: Son of Rome and this was at console launch.

Imagine what Crytek will do with Ryse: Knights of England with more development time.

HNNNNNNNNGGG.

[KonsoruMasuta]

Hopefully they actually focus on good gameplay the second time around. Ryse is a prime example of what happens when a developer spends all their time and funds on visuals. You got a pretty games with poor gameplay.

Graphically - It was amazing.

Gameplay wise - It failed to Ryse to expectations.

[Concertoine]

Crytek in general have that problem. Style over substance. Imo their last game where gameplay and graphics were balanced was Crysis 1.

[KonsoruMasuta]

What's with all the disagrees? Look, I'm not trying to get a Ryse out of people, I'm just sharing my opinion. Ryse was pretty bland in the gameplay department, the 60/100 on metacritic speaks for itself. I admit that Ryse is one of the best looking games of the generation but that doesn't save the game. You need more than good graphics.

I think Crytek needs to Ryse up and raise the bar in the gameplay area.

[Ipunchbabiesforfun]

I swear to god if you make one more pun...

[cozomel]

You'll what? puch him like you punch babies for fun? Which btw, i'd like to be able to do too, punch babies that is

[ovnipc]

Ryse the story was good. The game play was great, the last 2 chapter are awesome. Killzone has great visuals but was boring. Now iss its awesome. Idk if it cause i love history and spartans, romans, and german soldiers are my passion but ryse the ending was amazing.

[Ipunchbabiesforfun]

Hahaha i love kids, it's just a stupid phrase I use to be dumb.

[juliotheman21]

Hopefully they make the game less repetitive

[ShinMaster]

None of that made it onto the game.

A lot of character models in other games had millions of polygons originally before downscaling for the game.

[christocolus]

@convas

The sequel to ryse directed by todd pappy and built with dx12/cryengine would be a sight to behold.

[zyphee]

Probably created in Zbrush, but every character has millions and millions of polys before the artists retopoligize it to make it renderable.

[N4g_null]

Finally some one that knows their tech. It could be mud box also.

[Father__Merrin]

Ryse Rules

[Majin Uchiha]

God the game must have looked insane then, because retail Ryse is still the best looking next gen game so far (or second best after infamous)

[Abriael]

Back then it wasn't even a game :D That kind of models are optimized quite a bit before they're even put in the engine.

[CrossingEden]

Human eye can't tell the difference. After a certain threshold there's nothing to tell the models apart.
For example
http://www.cgexplorer.com/_...
This is due to diminishing returns
http://imgur.com/aFKEttJ
unfortunate but very true, there's not really a point in bragging about polycount or ragging on about a reduced polycount because you'd never be able to tell the difference anyway on a high fidelity model.
EDIT:Gotta love the stealth disagrees from bitter people who can't disprove facts.

[christian hour]

The phantom disagrees might be about the "human eye can't tell the difference" part, sure to the casual viewer there may be no difference, but to technophiles and media/digital artists of all mediums, it's still noticeable. Maybe less and less noticeable as the polygon counts go higher than 100,000.

But you can't argue with the law of diminishing returns, thats a stone cold fact, people can't constantly expect the same graphical leap generation from generation. My brother cant tell the difference between ps3/360 and ps4/xbone but... he is casual to the core. We can of course :)

Hope I can even out those agree's for ya and get you a second bubble ;)

[Hicken]

There's a reason he's down to one bubble, and part of it has to do with the premise he has, which is typical of him.

EVENTUALLY, there'll be a point where we can't tell the difference, but we're still a ways from that. Not to mention, it'll definitely be a difference when you consider how these models look in motion, with fabrics and hair included.

It's not so different, though, from how many can't CURRENTLY tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. There was a time, back before I got an HDTV, where I couldn't tell the difference either. Then I upgraded, watched and played everything in 1080- though sometimes it was upscaled- and the difference was glaringly obvious when the resolution was dropped to 720. But it took acclimatization for that, and I'm sure it'll take that for others.

Disregarding that just to make your point is being disingenuous. Which CrossingEden is known for.

[Ninjatogo]

Whenever someone posts images like those you just did, I just assume they don't understand what they're talking about. So, with that said, here's my attempt at explaining why that's wrong.

When sculpting/modelling in 3D, you can add more fine details to your model using a couple of methods. These methods can range from adding normal/bump map to actually altering the model geometry.

The easiest to understand is the subdivision method, which increases the polygon count of the model by dividing each polygon a certain number of times. Using this method, you can make smaller, more detailed edits to the mesh surface. However, simply pressing the subdivide button WILL NOT give you more detail; doing so will simply smooth the hard/sharp edges of the mesh. You have to put that detail in yourself.

The first image you posted show a high res model which was simply subdivided without adding additional detail. The second image is a mesh which was decimated from the third one down, and subdivided to produce the fourth one.

Subdividing is great when used on a mesh which will be animated; it can smooth out edges which would produce sharp corners when bent. (Wrinkles on characters/joints such as knees and elbows/etc)

[Trekster_Gamer]

Dumbass Sony Trolls will disagree with anything positive about Xbox one.

[InTheLab]

Ryse visually reminds me of God of War on a smaller scale. Imagine if inFamous SS was a linear game like Ryse...oh boy.

While Marius might be the best looking character on consoles, inFamous is the overall champ so far.

[Flutterby]

Exactly , infamous has the best graphics so far on console and does it at a solid frame rate and 1080p. Easily the best so far easily.

[DoubleM70]

I agree to disagree RYSE is still the best looking game so far. RYSE has hundred of characters fighting on screen with a high polygon count still going on. Not to mention the beautiful setting of Rome. Now I do give Infamous props for being an open world, but it still looks sterile.

[poboy993]

Ryse was awesome. Absolutely stunning graphics. Maybe it is just me but when I was playing it I never noticed frame rates or resolution problems. Give me a Golden Axe hack and slash type of game any day. Best looking game so far this Gen. Infamous SS is just as stunning too. Can't wait to see what the first parties do next!

[GW212]

Buddy, Infamous blows Ryse away. Not even debatable.

[OpieWinston]

I've played Infamous SS and Ryse...Ryse wins HANDS DOWN

Infamous has way better Lighting but when it comes down to graphical fidelity...Ryse Wins.

I know you haven't played Ryse.

[lifeisgamesok]

Sorry buddy but Ryse looks better

[poboy993]

Graphically it does not "blow" Ryse away. You are delusional.

[imt558]

@GW212

Of course that you have more disagree votes. Guess from who. But you're right.

Xbone fans can't accept it and it's a pain in their ass.

[marcofdeath]

They use to say that KILL ZONE SF and DRIVER CLUB was better looking but we know how that work out don't we!!!

[GUTZnPAPERCUTZ]

No... Ryse textures, Tessellation, shadowing, etc. are waayyyyy better than Infamous, although infamous has amazing lighting, just don't look too close at things lol

[GW212]

Um, yeah. I have both. It's really not that close. Sorry guys.

[DoubleM70]

Another person that has not played RYSE. Just by saying none debatable I can tell.

[mhunterjr]

I just started a second playthrough of Ryse on legendary. It's a criminally underrated game. It feels great to learn the mechanics well enough to clear a room and rack up 100+ combos without taking a hit. And it looks great to boot!

[Bigpappy]

I am always playing Gladiator mode, solo, and getting my butt handed to me. Love it though. When I played co-op I went through each area with some resistance. But solo is a beast.

[mhunterjr]

Yeah, I thought I had gotten good at the game after becoming pretty good on legendary, but I couldn't get very far on solo mode. They swarm you pretty quickly, and they don't take turns attacking.

[DaleCooper]

Definitely underrated. At first I wasn't really impressed with the combat until I realized it wasn't about speed, it was about timing. The combat is like Batman Arkham Asylum, except with more difficulty and less hand-holding (in a good way.) Once I got the timing down my enjoyment for the game grew exponentially. Combine that with the amazing visuals and the great online mode (also VERY underrated) and you have a great game. I'm really hoping for a sequel.

[mhunterjr]

Yeah hopefully it performed well enough to justify a sequel. It was definitely rough around the edges, I'd like to see them clean it up a bit, but I could definitely use a Ryse 2.

[DoubleM70]

Can't wait to play it on Ledgendary.

[jay2]

Nice numbers,Now lets see what Cryengine does on PS4/xbox one, and see if they can hit the downgrated 150,000.

[Lilrizky]

While I think Ryse was a bit shallow in terms of depth, I think it could benefit from a sequel that can build on its mechanics and ideas into something more.

[NukaCola]

Game started as a 360 railed kinect arcade hack-n-slash game. I don't know how people expected it to be amazing in the game play department. If they do a sequel, it needs to be built from the ground up as a true nexgen action game.

[jetlian]

lol you clearly havent played it. Combat is really overly simple but still playable. All the sequal needs is 30-40 moves and its all good.

[NukaCola]

No bro, i have. And im telling you what the game was originally. If it's sequel is built ground up to be a fully fleshed out action title it can be great. You need to quit getting so defensive.

[jetlian]

no bro you haven't. yea 360 could have been on rails this one isnt.

[Salooh]

Too much hope there xP . You are talking about crytek here lol. They only can do graphics. Don't expect them to improve gameplay unless they delivered.

[StealthPandemic]

Far Cry (1) says otherwise.

[Salooh]

They were good at the gameplay in the past(Before2008) but i'm talking about the present. They are awful now . I don't see why people praise or expect anything good in gameplay side.

[Lord-Nicon]

Crytek has an amazing technology when it comes to graphics , but it falls down when it comes to story.. Sad that Microsoft having one huge writer (Sam Lake) , didn't use him to writte a proper story for Ryse

[AnEwGuY]

What are you talking about??? MS doesn't "have" Sam Lake, any more than they "have" Crytek as a developer. It's a publishing agreement...nothing more. Why would the head of a small studio want...or have time...to write for another studio's game, when he's got his hands full with 2 other games (Remedy was also working on iOS).

[Geoff900]

Sam Lake wasn't the writer, nor works for Crytek, however I think with a lot more better game direction and a much better story it would have been a good game.

It felt like it sort of went from different ideas too many times, and gameplay decisions got effected by it as well.

[OpieWinston]

Sam Lake is a creative genius....Remedy hasn't been bought out by Microsoft YET.

Sam lake is working on Quantum Break. That's a truly demanding AAA game since they'll be blending Live Action series with the games story itself.

[plaZeHD]

Amazing tech, but aren't the cutscenes pre-rendered?

[Priestwithgun]

Realtime

[plaZeHD]

I don't think so.
http://www.dualshockers.com...

[DaleCooper]

Pre-rendered, but they're rendered in-engine, so it looks just like the game's graphics during gameplay.

They do this so that while the cutscene plays, they can load the next section of the game. I think it's a really good system that more games should utilize to cut down on load times.

[DEEBO]

Yeah but infamous is the best looking title on next gen systems. I played ryse and it looks good but infamous has the looks and its open world.

[GW212]

Not sure why the disagrees. I have both. Infamous blows it away. It's not even close.

[DEEBO]

Infamous is just on a other level with how fast the combat with the graphics to boot.
They can disagree but it doesn't change fact that as of right now infamous is the king of graphics on consoles.

[StealthPandemic]

On consoles? Crisis says hi!

[Malphite]

PC gamer here. I picked up a PS4 with Infamous Second Son and just finished it. It looks fantastic running on a $400 console. It has some of the best lightning I've seen in any game console or PC. And the amount of detail is incredible for an open world game.

Sure my PC has the advantage of higher resolution, framerate and AA. But since I'm playing on a 1080p TV and the framerate and AA in Infamous are really above what you'd probably expect from a console it still looks amazing.

[hkgamer]

85k is more than enough IMO.

For comparisons sake:

Jak 2 - Jak = 10,000
Uncharted 2 - Drake = 37,000
FFXIII - Lightning = 8,488
Tomb Raider Underworld - Lara = 32,816
Trilight Princess - Link = 6,900
Heavenly Sword - Nariko = 23,620
God of War 3 - Kratos = 22,000
MGS3 - Big Boss = 4000
MGS4 - Old Snake = 5-10,000
Star Citizen - Pilot = 100,000
The Order 1886 - each main character = Aiming for over 100,000
Uncharted 4 - Drake = My random estimation with no real basis... 120,000

Ryse character model does look great, but probably would have looked just as good with half the polygons.

Just wanted to say that it doesn't really matter how many polygons is used on a character model. I think Lighting and texture details makes a bigger difference.

[Tontus]

Where you getting this information from? I saw a dev video saying Kratos in GoW3 was close to 30k.

Jak in Jak 2 was as dense as Old Snake in MGS4? Seems unlikely?

I get what you're saying though, you don't need an insane amount of polys to have a great looking character model, once the displacement maps are converted to normal maps it looks nearly identical even with significantly less polys. Improved lighting + textures is far more important for achieving more detailed & realistic characters than simply throwing more polys at it.

[PLASTICA-MAN]

I totally agree with you, and I kept saying that, the Kratos GOW3 demo ws 22k polys while the retail version was 30K (read official PlayStation forums, release thread of GOW3 a dev confirmed that). Also I'd better not begin with Unchrated. he got his infos from Beyond3 which is an anti PS3 , crshing site that never gets updated after new infos come especially polycount thread.

[hkgamer]

got most info from http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

and some random google searches since i wanted to know.

it was some approximation, haven't got a clue where they actually got this from, but it seems trustworthy.

@plastica-man

funny cos when i read that post it did seem anti-ps3-ish well not anti but it gave that impression for some odd reason.
uncharted 2 was apparently 80k but wasn't sure if they meant gameplay or cutscene. I just presumed 80k cutscene and 37k gameplay.

[DaleCooper]

However many polys he was, Kratos looked amazing in GoW3. Of course it also helped that the lighting and texture work in that game was so good.

[H0RSE]

polys will eventually be a thing of the past - https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Geoff900]

That has never ever been used, or seen by actual press nor developers.

[H0RSE]

lol, what are you talking about? Devs can sign up to use their Unlimited Detail SDK. It is largely used in geospacial software at the moment, and is also used in the medical/science fields, but it definitely exists and has been seen and used. I think they even got a government grant for $2 million. What they are currently working on, is getting this technology usable for the games industry.

Here's a video interview featuring a real-time demo of the engine. The guy even uses an xbox controller to navigate. - https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Regardless if they succeed or not is not the point. The point is that other technologies exist, and polys will not be standard forever.

[mushroomwig]

Comments/Ratings disabled, no new videos for over 2 years and their new videos are for something completely different (yet still showcasing "unbelievable" tech)

Yeah, sorry to say but something is definitely fishy there.

[H0RSE]

As I stated, they received a $2 million grant from the Australian government, and have a signup program for devs to use their SDK, so unless they are conning the government, I'll take it that it's legit...

They are known for dropping off the radar. He even mentions it at the end of the interview, that they will be going into hiding again. The company is only like 9 people, so I'd imagine they are a bit busy and likely don't have time to post frequent updates. Here is a vid from Oct, 2013, showing their technology being used in geospacial software - https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Something else to consider is that all this tech is being rendered without even using the GPU, which is very promising. You can believe what you want, but the facts remain facts regardless what you think. Their tech is real, it's working, and it's being used. If it can be utilized in game development, it would be groundbreaking.

[Geoff900]

It's an engine, that NEVER has been used by developers, nor by us the consumers, and it's been around for years.

They use the same demo for every video, and show not much else.

[chito1016d]

No matter the amount of polygons I enjoyed the game. I haven't touched it since beating it though.

[B1uBurneR]

I hand counted every pixel on these characters while I was playing I gotta say not bad for being off by ten polygon

[Smashbro29]

Imagine they put the game on PC?

I mean it'd still be a bad game but what a pretty one.

[hkgamer]

crytek should just start naming their games graphical benchmark 1,2,3 etc...

would probably sell an incredible amount as well.

[NeoTribe]

Before optimization? No, its called being degraded.

[ninjahunter]

For when you need the polygons to be smaller than the pixels.

[mogwaii]

Not being a fan of the xbone i thought rise looked great and am looking forward to seeing what the new consoles will do with the cryengine in the future.

[ananas]

RYSE looking great and is super game...

If someone says something different it's a hater...

[marcofdeath]

Best looking game so far this GEN............

[sovkhan]

Poly count is useless with no solid gameplay, steady frame rate and most of all graphics mastery.

Crytek only master the third part.

[Alsybub]

They're, first and foremost, an engine developer. They pretty much make games to advertise their product.

It would be good if they could make the tech demos, that are their games, a bit better though.

[Klad]

I cant remember the last time i seen an article about ACUAL GAMEPLAY & STORY LINE!!!
All i see is GRAPHICS, GRAPHICS, GRAPHICS, GRAPHICS, 1080p, 1080p,1080p,1080p, 60fps, 60fps, 60fps, 60fps, Polygons, Polygons, Polygons, Polygons!!! Getting sick of this now...

[Angeljuice]

@Klad
" All i see is GRAPHICS, GRAPHICS, GRAPHICS, GRAPHICS, 1080p, 1080p,1080p,1080p, 60fps, 60fps, 60fps, 60fps,"

If you don't want to see 1080p 60fps all the time just read more XB1 reviews.

Seriously though, I think TitanFall got an extremely good reception despite lackluster graphics, gameplay was the first priority in reviews, articles etc.

[SynestheticRoar]

Best looking, and playing so far is infamous second son. If you didn't know. Now you know.

[kewlkat007]

Is there another game that can use this engine.. Going forward.. I still think this is best looking game with everything going on at once..

[linkenski]

I would like to know how many polygons Ubisoft sacrificed when they "optimized" watch dogs.

[_FantasmA_]

But how many pixels and polygons went into the combat?? o_O

[Gore-Content]

And then they found out that xbone was a POS and couldn't handle all that, teehee.

[Ra3030]

First I'll say that Ryse is a beautiful game to look at but lacks any sort of content. It's a modern version off Simon Says and nothing more. So with that said WTF? Polypoopoo, pixel pixie sticks and textures is this all Microsoft has to talk about? They are in more trouble than I thought. Instead of putting this crap out there that really no one cares about they should apply the hype machine that they put on Titanfall to their new sports kinect game. What's is wrong with Microsoft? They put all their eggs in the Titanfall basket and now they have nothing at all to talk about and it'll be this way for months maybe till the end of the year. They claim they have so much stuff for E3 that they had to move stuff out. NEWS FLASH!...... Anything they talk about at E3 will be old news like Halo 5 or a new Gears, Crackdown or Quantum Break. These games like everything else they'll talk about at E3 will be months down the road before we can purchase them. And Microsoft has said repeatedly that they learned from last years mistakes. Sony is riding the wild and crazy Microsoft ride and it goes like this....Do nothing and let the competition dig it's on grave then watch as they bury themselves.
Disclaimer.....as a PS3 and PS4 owner I'm not putting down Sony by saying their doing nothing because that's not true. Sony has a stack of cards to play and we've seen their genius in playing one during Titanfall release week. Holding back consoles then flooding the Europe market as Titanfall releasese then follow that with Infamous SS. The problem is Microsoft has no cards left to play to force Sony to play theirs. This is how competition should work each making the other better. All we'll hear from MS for the next few months is talk followed by hype.

[assdan]

I feel like this article is meant to piss off fan boys on one side, but I can't figure out which...

[Keregan]

lol at those who says that infamous looks better than Ryse, it's nowhere near. The only things that looks good in infamous are the protagonist's powers. The rest looks more like last gen, GTAV for that matters.

[larrysdirtydrawss]

omden02 + 12h ago

Still best looking game on any system to date

agreed,right after kz/inss

[larrysdirtydrawss]

Keregan + 20m ago

lol at those who says that infamous looks better than Ryse, it's nowhere near. The only things that looks good in infamous are the protagonist's powers. The rest looks more like last gen, GTAV for that matters.

^^ this is why moms shouldn't do crack while pregnant .. inss has beautiful textures right down to the regular grunts in their yellow armor,, bosses are incredible looking. effects/particles are top of its field by miles, crisp sharp resolution making the entire world pop with detail

[Father__Merrin]

infamous takes a neon dump on ryse

ryse is a simpleton title at sub 30 fps, confined and very linear, 900p although great facial animations it's lacks elsewhere apart from great authentic art

if ryse engine as is was blown up into a Rome open world with verticality and lots of fast moving visuals on screen Merrin feels the resolution would have to be chopped to 720p combining with a sub 25 fps

but I dunno if I had an Xbox1 I would give ryse a go but it's no ps4 beater