250°

Xbox Live’s New ToS: They’re Watching You

Karam Elahi from SpawnFirst reports: "When you turned on your Xbox yesterday, you might’ve noticed a new Xbox Live Terms of Use and Services that you had to agree to, to get back on Xbox Live to commence watching Netflix, playing multiplayer, or to actually do anything at all, online. When we usually notice such service Terms of Use updates, we instinctively agree to them, just so we can get on with our lives and not have to read lawyer-speak for the next 30 minutes-to-an-hour. This time though, I actually took it upon myself to read through it. And the few questionable points I found in the Terms of Use did not sit too well with me. "

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spawnfirst.com
PoSTedUP3819d ago

anything you do: your skype videos, chat, game videos etc. they have a right to monitor and use them however they like whether it be giving it to their partners who then can use it however they like etc. thats pretty bad imo. we have a right to our privacy and that right there is a whole lot of violation if you ask me.

dirigiblebill3819d ago (Edited 3819d ago )

"We may monitor these communications to the extent permitted by law."

Also, here are a few excerpts from Sony's privacy policy.

"we collect information via dynamic in-game advertising that is served to some online PlayStation®3 games. By use of our websites and games that have dynamic in-game advertising, you signify your assent to SCEA's privacy policy."

"We may share the personally identifying information of our website users with our affiliates in the Sony group family of companies and other third parties who assist us with fulfilling your requests, clear and verify transactions, deliver and administer products, content or services, manage and enhance customer data, store and maintain our database records, provide customer service, detect fraud or illegal activities, conduct customer research and surveys, develop new products and services and sell products and services to you."

"Data logged via PS3 dynamic in-game advertising or some portion of it will be shared with third party companies that operate the advertisement serving technology, and these companies may share aggregated data (meaning data that includes data about a Sony Entertainment Network account holder’s gaming session but is not specific to him or her) with advertisers and game publishers."

http://us.playstation.com/s...

creeping judas3819d ago

But Bill, that's completely different then what MS TOS are!!
/S

Thehyph3819d ago

I don't understand the paranoia.

I'm sick of this NSA-box crap. Even if I was getting an Xbox One... I still wouldn't care.

Facebook, Twitter, Google, Microsoft, your ISP, your phone provider, credit, photo identification/driver's license, birth certificate, etc.
You're always in a database somewhere.

Information is a powerful and profitable thing. You need look no further than Google.

Building a database of users and use is 100% legal in the United States, and it was that way before the patriot act.
Use of said database is where the law gets shady.

kneon3819d ago

There is nothing particularly ominous about those terms you've posted. You'll find just about every online service has virtually identical terms. No company runs their entire service top to bottom on their own so they need to share info with all the companies that make up that service, including the advertisers and advertising brokers.

As for Microsoft listening in on your communications that is nothing new. Every communications provider has the right to listen in on your conversations, with certain limitations.

I worked 10 years at a mobile operator and we could listen in on any channel we wanted to in order to ascertain whether there were communications issues. What we couldn't do is listen in on specific users. Still I've heard things that I'm sure people didn't want to be known and had I really wanted to I could have tracked down the callers info, but then I would have been breaking the law.

PoSTedUP3819d ago (Edited 3819d ago )

you see the difference right? MS is getting premission to bassically use Everything you do, say, or upload to xbox, they can see your skype video chats, everything.. thats why they have a long list of specifics of exactly what they want to do. we're not talking just game stats and account information, if you read and understand it.

jmc88883819d ago (Edited 3819d ago )

Sorry stevehyphen, you got it all wrong.

It's not PARANOIA...when it's REALLY HAPPENING. Check dictionary.com.

Your sophistry that if 1 thing against me is happening, then what's 100 or 1000 or a million, is laughable.

More is worse. This more is more advanced then anything else. It's also IN YOUR HOUSE, and will be doing all it's little spy stuff to any child in sight.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3819d ago
jackanderson19853819d ago

they can only do it as far as the law allows.... i'm not sure on US law but EU law is pretty clear... they need express permission to "sell" your data to third parties... also that part of the agreement covers them for complaints made by fellow gamers for either abusive messages or threats etc etc

marchinggamer3819d ago

You lost your right to privacy when you signed the terms of service

2cents3819d ago

Oh no... Quick! Run for the hills, hide in a cabin, live of berries and grow a beard. They won't find you there!

dale_denton3819d ago

here's a solution people.. don't subscribe to xbox live or buy MS consoles.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3819d ago
HolyDuck3819d ago

Why do people get so mad at these Terms of Service, you don't HAVE to accept them, but they do, then complain about all the changes, seriously? You're going to accept something that you don't agree with, then your whole point is invalid.

user66358653819d ago

if you do not accept the terms and conditions you basically have a brick

so in theory no you do not have to accept but then good luck getting anything to work.

as a 360 fan ms have made it too difficult to justify the xbox one its just constant bad news... saddening really

Gazondaily3819d ago

What makes you think Sony doesn't have similar TOS?

Themba763819d ago

this is why I jumped ship after the x1 unveiling I knew it was time to move on screw the friends list and the achievments I don't need there crap.

GuruMeditation3819d ago

Yes, and if I don't like the quality of my oxygen supply I don't HAVE to breathe. Just because we have a choice, doesn't mean that that choice is reasonable or justified.

HolyDuck3819d ago (Edited 3819d ago )

Are you really comparing necessary things we need in order to survive (which is free) to something you have to go out and purchase which is also a luxury you DO NOT NEED. What a joke analogy.

ToS are usually presented on the items website, saying that you have a brick if you don't accept them is complete and utter toss, in all fairness yes, these are changes to the ToS but every ToS you accept states that "You accept that these terms can change etc etc" which you also accept when you accept the ToS, stop moaning about choosing something that is bound to change to something you don't like.

GuruMeditation3819d ago

@HolyDuck I get your point. But the analogy was obviously not meant to be 'to scale'. Just an indicator of how hobsons choice is no choice at all. I do sort of agree with your overarching point, but that doesn't make me any more comfortable with its implications.

jmc88883819d ago (Edited 3819d ago )

Holy Moly.

Guess you didn't read the article of why the 'I have nothing to hide excuse' is just that, an excuse.

Search it.

Bhuahahaha3819d ago

lol yeah right if you dont accept then you cant access live .mr.duck

Godmars2903819d ago

You don't HAVE to accept them, you just can't play COD multiplayer or do anything else online.

MS will still happily take you XBL subscription though...

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3819d ago
urwifeminder3819d ago

Watch me toss all you want nsa day one.

3819d ago
MadLad3819d ago

Remember when consoles were just machines you played games on?
It was nice.

Show all comments (49)
280°

Xbox's Preservation Step Sets A Much-Needed Example, Especially For Nintendo

Hanzla from eXputer inquires: "If Xbox can care about preserving its games and legacy, what exactly is wrong with Nintendo, trying to kill game preservation single-handedly?"

purple1012d ago

Ahh yes the good old game preservation of saving all your games to a removable hhd on the Xbox 360, taking it round your mates house, setting up multiple tvs to
Be met with “save data corrupted, please re download”

Or how about removing 360 games
From the store
, download them now or else, and, better hope to god that save data doesn’t corrupt, or it’s lost for ever

Nice one ☝️

Zeref2d ago

It's better than what Nintendo and Playstation is doing. It might not be perfect but at least they are TRYING. Unlike the others.

DarXyde2d ago

Trying? Take off the blinders for a moment, mate.

1. A failure to preserve games is just that: a failure to preserve games. Don't try to sugarcoat it: NO ONE is doing it properly. Better than awful is nothing to write home about.

2. At the time of this comment, isn't it the case that you need an internet connection to play Xbox games even if you buy physical discs that are hardly in circulation anymore? I don't have a Series X and I can't verify, but I think that is correct. I'm fairly certain you can at least play PS5 games at version 1.0 (not much of a win really when many games require day one patches). I think Microsoft's all digital, licensing approach is by far more aggressive than anyone else's. They really try to push you to game pass where you lose your entire library by umm.... Skipping a month of payments.

I don't think anyone is doing it right whatsoever. Don't get me started on Nintendo, who goes after anyone looking to preserve their games better than they ever would with extreme litigation.

Don't be a simp for any of these companies. Get it together.

PhillyDonJawn2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

@DarX never speak on Xbox again. You lost all credibility with your internet connection comment. Smh you have 0 clue and misinformed yet speaking on something you don't no squat about.

Einhander19722d ago

What has Sony done exactly? You guys keep deflecting to Sony but I am not actually seeing any results, and ai am certain nothing that you can come up with even comes close to what Microsoft has done and what they have tried and failed to do, like tie all your disks to your account on xbone.

Microsoft removed their whole indie section when they moved to the xbone because they were going to only allow games on the service that came from a publisher, id@xbox started after xbone launched and it only exists because Sony embraced indie and Microsoft was forced to cancel their plans and reverse course.

And every single game that was part of games for windows live including disk games (I have gta 4 on disk that won't work) so hundreds of games that use that DRM no longer work unless the company themselves patched it out which of course very few did.

MrBaskerville2d ago

Not trying. Tried. they killed of the backcomp program years ago. They set something up again, but sounds like it's more of an attempt to save the current library on whatever they are planning next. With luck they save everything and more, but let's see. I could see them killing off parts of the OG xbox and 360 libraries. Can't imagine that they would allow us to play Forza 5-7 in the future.

With that said, I do like what they've done and really wish they could have done more.

shinoff21831d 19h ago

Zeref

So killing off physical media is trying what exactly. Ms don't really give a fk if you think they do your kidding yourself.

Profchaos1d 18h ago

They are not trying this team is established for forward compatability the team is. It interested in preserving Xbox or 360 games.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 1d 18h ago
isarai2d ago

Is that why Hellblade 2 is digital only?

Zeref2d ago

Just because it's digital only doesn't mean you can't preserve it. Just put it on an external and you have the exact same functionality of what a disc does.

MrNinosan2d ago

Guess you're trolling, but if you actually think that's how it works, I'd recommend buying some braincells.

mkis0071d 10h ago (Edited 1d 10h ago )

Volitile vs nonvolitile data. A disc will not corrupt either. A drive can be corrupted.

Einhander19722d ago

This is just a scammy PR move to distract from the fact they are going digital only and trying to push streaming and subscriptions only.

No gaming company has pushed harder to remove ownership than Microsoft.

Without discs there is no preservation, preservation can't be done by the rights holders it can only be done by the consumers, anything else is a lie.

2d ago Replies(3)
Einhander19722d ago

Anyone remember xblig which Microsoft removed their whole 360 indie section removing hundreds of games from people?

2d ago
2d ago
Zeref2d ago

Do you know you can put your games on an external and preserve them that way? There are no benefits to discs. ZERO. Idk why some of you are still obsessed with them.

DarXyde2d ago

Because games like Persona 5 exist. It's STILL V1.00. On Playstation, that's a win because 1.00 is installed on the disc—no need to download anything.

If a game does not require any updates, it's all on the disc.

Extremely low bar in the modern era, of course. It's not much of a win by any stretch.

But for now, physical media does have a purpose, at least on Playstation.

Einhander19722d ago

That is factually not how game licensing works, try plugging your hard drive into someone else xbox, It's not going to work, and it won't work if the licensing servers ever go down.

Einhander19722d ago

Anyone remember games for windows live.

I have around a dozen games, some on Steam itself that will not work because Microsoft shut off the licensing servers.

BehindTheRows2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

I do. I STILL have games (Gears of War being the big one) I cannot access because Games for Windows LIVE is total garbage and no one has held Microsoft accountable.

Zeref2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

You don't have an Xbox apparently. Because you can 100 percent plug in your external and play games from it on any Xbox console lol. You just have to be logged in to prove ownership.

Chevalier2d ago

"You don't have an Xbox apparently. Because you can 100 percent plug in your external and play games from it on any Xbox console lol. You just have to be logged in to prove ownership."

Damn how many times do people got to explain your idiocy to you? You can take a copy of Persona 5 like someone used as an example and play that game on ANY console WITHOUT logging in which means I can lend the game to a friend without internet and they can play my game. Can you lend your hard drive to anyone without logging in for them to play? NOPE. That is a huge difference and if you think otherwise then sorry you're an idiot.

Tacoboto2d ago

"No gaming company has pushed harder to remove ownership than Microsoft."

Ubisoft is literally erasing games people bought from their libraries... My PS1-3 discs are useless on modern hardware. Nintendo's re-published and resold almost their entire Wii U library, and the eShop is completely dead with no BC mechanism in the Switch software. Microsoft publishes everything they make today day one on Steam and Xbox/Windows. Sony only brings to PC the titles they think you might want some years later and Nintendo won't even design a functional long-lasting joystick.

You're absolutely trolling and not serious if you think Microsoft today is the worst offender.

shinoff21831d 19h ago

Yay steam

Not everyone fks with computers though. The disc is still the best way as a console player. Period.

Tacoboto1d 17h ago

How do Sony and Nintendo feel about these discs from 2001-2013?

Don't be stupid, you know Xbox is the best at this today.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 1d 17h ago
Hofstaderman2d ago

Nobody wants this. Sales or the lack of it in the case of XBOX is very telling. I wonder how the adorably all digital series X will fare. Adorably dismal perhaps?

crazyCoconuts2d ago

Only time will tell, but for from someone like me suspecting that Xbox is trying to gracefully exit the console market, that "forward compatibility" team is trying to get Xbox games playing on Windows PCs. I mean, it's nice that they're not planning on exiting with a "enjoy your games while the hardware still works" message, so that's nice. They still have a brand to protect via Microsoft so probably feel obligated to have a better exit strategy.

Xeofate2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

That is not their plan, their plan is to transfer users accounts to the cloud.

Phil Spencer himself said as much a few months back, plans could have changed but I think people are reading way too much into one statement where Phil said he would allow Epic on xbox because he wants to be able to sell xbox games directly on other platforms. Aka, instead of selling Sea of Thives through PSN he wants to have an xbox store to sell his games on PlayStation without giving PlayStation any money.

Again, it's extremely unlikely that Phil plans to put PC on xbox and licensing would prevent them from just giving out other publishers games purchased on xbox copies of thier games on PC, Microsoft does not own their games.

crazyCoconuts1d 5h ago

The thing that doesn't align with the cloud strategy is the giving up on exclusives. You'd still need strong exclusives for cloud streaming - it's still a "platform" , just with a lower upfront hardware investment. I feel like they've learned what PS learned with PSNow long ago. We're not ready to stream games and it's only gonna lose them money to try at this point

FinalFantasyFanatic1d 13h ago

I would love that, I'd buy up some of the Xbox games if they could run on PC, like the Rare Replay, Lost Odyssey and Dead or Alive Ultimate, probably a pipe dream though.

Show all comments (43)
370°

Could Xbox Soon Become The Next Dreamcast?

Microsoft's future in the video game space is murky right now, so let's break it all down.

Read Full Story >>
thegamer.com
ApocalypseShadow14d ago (Edited 14d ago )

Not anytime soon. But they're on that path.

One thing not mentioned in the article is Microsoft's money bags. If Sega had Microsoft's money, they would have still been around as a hardware manufacturer. Xbox as a platform only survives because of the money bags. They can continue making consoles for the core and port to PC.

The multiplatform strategy is only the result of arrogance and misguided leadership that blew up in their face. They thought gamers would jump on Xbox in droves if they knew that many of their favorite games would be only on Xbox. But that's not happening at all. Sales didn't increase. They decreased. Why? Because the dumb asses thought giving away these expensively made games in a cheap service would also turn the tide.

Gamers on other platforms are willing to buy quality. They don't need to be handed nearly free games in a service that aren't even finished and sometimes average in their development. Gamers buy Nintendo games. They buy Sony games. Microsoft groomed their base to not buy games. Even the quality ones. It has always been their plan to go digital. But most gamers still like single player gaming. Still like physical releases.

Microsoft's problem has always been that they don't produce high quality games at the same output as Nintendo and Sony. Actually, they should be producing quite a lot more because they're worth over 2 TRILLION. How they don't have more is ridiculous and no excuse. Buying publishers to take away from competition only backfired. Because it still takes millions of dollars to continue to make those games from the publishers they snatched. Their only choice was to crawl back to their competitors to help sustain those developers because Nintendo and Sony platforms were the ones buying games.

Am I sorry for Microsoft? Hell no! They deserved last place for putting in the least effort. They deserved the fallout for buying up the industry and didn't make a single blip on the radar against their competitors where they now need those same gamers they took away games from to support them. Part of it may have been to cash in on their competition. But the result is the slow death of their platform. They may go 3rd party. They may keep making hardware. I don't give a shit about them to worry about it. I only give a shit about the destructive nature of their industry moves that only negatively affect gamers. They could sell and drop out of the industry and I wouldn't blink. Probably laugh. But not blink. They deserve whatever comes to them. At least Sega put in the effort when it came to games. They just had poor leadership. Microsoft has poor leadership and barely makes memorable games. That's a killer combination. And not in a good way.

Cacabunga14d ago

That would be an insult to Dreamcast.. it had a crazy line up of legendary critically acclaimed games.

Crows9014d ago

I was thinking the same. Dreamcast had incredible games in such a short amount of time. It was truly exceptional.

darthv7214d ago

...and yet all those great games were not enough to sway people from the looming release of the PS2 at the time. Sony just has that kind of brand loyalty.

Cacabunga13d ago

Darth

I do not agree.. Sony had even better games thanks to an unprecedented 3rd party support..
DC had amazing lineup but 90% were arcade games..

88313d ago

@darth:
And Sony showed off "The Emotion Engine" and their real time demos that made everyone think they would miss out on REAL next gen 128bit magic if they jumped in before PS2s polygon pushing monster (and early lack of anti-aliasing with a healthy heap of shimmer + DVD playback) stepped up. PS2 was a fantastic system though with amazing games.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 13d ago
blacktiger14d ago

That's not true. Just because Microsoft has the money doesn't mean Microsoft can allow xbox to bleed entire Microsoft money. It doesn't work like they. Also SEC will be watching and investor won't allow it. Lot of reasons why Microsoft can not continue even if they wanted to. SEC regulations is expensive.

fr0sty14d ago (Edited 14d ago )

Exactly this... Microsoft is a publicly traded company, mostly owned by their shareholders (Approximately 59.24% of the company's stock is owned by Institutional Investors, 7.73% is owned by Insiders and 33.03% is owned by Public Companies and Individual Investors.). Their shareholders call the shots on the business decisions, and their shareholders want one thing and one thing only, for their stock price to go up. Losses do not make stock prices go up... so if the division continually posts losses on hardware, but shows profits on software and services (which has been the case with Xbox its entire lifespan, for over 20 years now), the shareholders are going to grow impatient and demand they stop making hardware and focus on the only thing that has ever made them money, software and services.

When Microsoft bought Blizzard and Activision for almost 100 billion, I knew that was the nail in the coffin for Xbox as a console... as the shareholders were going to expect a quick return on that investment, and when it didn't materialize, they were going to be out for blood... out to force Xbox to sell those games on as many consoles as possible, "and while you're at it, sell those first party exclusives that aren't selling well on other consoles as well... hell, just stop making consoles and sell games."

If there is another Xbox console generation, it will definitely be the last, but I doubt there even will be one at this point. I think the Xbox division planning on it just in case, but I don't think the project has been greenlit from Microsoft itself. The rumors that they have not yet even secured the chips needed from the chip fabrication facilities ties into this.

shinoff218314d ago

While I usually agree with you . Alot of what was said can just also be asked before any of that.

How long will the shareholders wait? It doesn't appear long at all

Babadook713d ago

I think I get your point. Like just because MS has money does not mean they are content to throw it away on a dying ecosystem. Xbox has to be profitable or “what’s the point?”

ifinitygamer14d ago

Money bags, yes, but are we ignoring that Xbox actually makes a profit on games and GamePass? Hardware is often a loss leader, and they're probably making profit 4 years into the life cycle, but games and services revenue have been very profitable while other parts of Microsoft's business is struggling. Say what you will about the quality of those games, of course, but this is kind of a reverse Dreamcast situation, where the console was dragging down the company and put it at risk of shuttering entirely. Killing that console saved the business and allowed it to continue to make games on multiple platforms. In this case, the service is very profitable, as are the games, and they're also double-dipping into Multiplatform to extend this further, while their hardware is just sort of what they believe to be the best for gamers and their own titles (whether that is the case or not...)

fr0sty14d ago (Edited 14d ago )

The issue is, they aren't selling enough hardware to make their exclusives profitable, and now that they've bought half the gaming publisher/dev industry, they have no choice but to go third party to make a profit... and that is making their shareholders take a real close look at their hardware division under the microscope... why keep making the hardware if the software is all that is making them money, and they continually, generation after generation come in dead last with hardware sales?

Look at a game like Spiderman 2... if it had been an Xbox exclusive, with the amount it cost to develop, it would have been a huge failure... simply not enough consoles out there to sell it on. They would have been lucky to break even.

ifinitygamer13d ago

@fr0sty agreed completely, which is why they're hedging by releasing other games to multiplatform, plus they have PC to make up for the difference in a lot of ways, which is why their games are not complete money pits. It brings up the question of whether or not those exclusives would drive sales of consoles, though. Let's say Spiderman 2 was an Xbox exclusive, it would certainly have pushed console sales, though who's to say how much is anyone's guess.

fr0sty13d ago

That's why you can't rely on just one exclusive, Sony has always delivered on a wide range of solid exclusives, even this generation (even if they haven't been strong on the first party exclusives, they've made up for it with third party). They don't rely on just one "system seller", they have a portfolio of them.

13d ago
JBlaze22613d ago

ApocalypseShadow To be honest Sony has more of a chance to go 3rd party because like you said Microsoft has money, Sony does not. Sony does not have games, Only games they have come from 3rd party. Sony has been losing money for years and you. Saying Microsoft has been putting the least effort just proves you have no idea what's been going on. All Sony has done is repeat and recycle, never innovating or doing something new. All Sony has is brand loyalty nothing else and it shows.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 13d ago
LG_Fox_Brazil14d ago

Not sure about that. It's been two decades and I still think about Power Stone, Shenmue, Crazy Taxi, Jet Set Radio, Seaman and others, but I'm not sure I'll remember Xbox Series X/S games in a few years from now... Maybe I'll remember about the franchises that the Xbox brand spawned, but I don't believe that the Xbox Series lives up to the late Dreamcast or even to the Xbox name itself. I do have great memories about the 360 with Blue Dragon, Gears 2 and Lost Odyssey though

isarai14d ago

Nah, sega actually makes good games

Becuzisaid14d ago

No, Dreamcast was ahead of it's time and most still have very fond memories of it that had one. It also had some good games on it even in it's short lifespan. Xbox has none of these qualities.

Profchaos14d ago

I remember it coming out at the time in a really bad place they hit the market before the PS2 but it was during this transitional time when Sony was promoting the power of the PS2 and so many of the Dreamcast games were awesome but often third parties simply ported the PS1 version increased resolution and performance but rarely fully utilise the capabilities of the console.

I think in the end bad marketing done it in and like the GameCube so many people are fond of it now but at the time it was looked at in the lense of the day and it didn't stack up.

Personally I miss Sega in hardware they took risks that many companies won't

Becuzisaid14d ago

I never owned it, and got the PS2 right when it launched. But there were certain games it had that I was always jealous of that I didn't have access to - Sonic adventure, crazy taxi, power Stone, code Veronica, shenmue, skies of Arcadia. I always thought it was a really cool machine though. I've never heard a bad thing about it though from those that had it.

FinalFantasyFanatic14d ago

I only ever saw one Dreamcast, and that was one my friend owned, pity I never got to play it, I wonder what games he had for it?

It would be nice if some of those games got ported to modern systems.

Profchaos14d ago

Oh man sonic adventure on the Dreamcast made me so jealous as a huge sonic fan on the mega drive who also moved to PlayStation 2 I never got the chance to play it back in the day either. The Dreamcast in Australia where I am was always relegated to the smallest corner of EB Games it was kind of a strong first indicator that things were not going well at the time.

Show all comments (72)
80°

Microsoft Rewards app on Xbox and weekly streaks to be killed off soon

Microsoft has announced the Microsoft Rewards app on Xbox will be discontinued in April and has confirmed that weekly streaks will also be coming to an end.

Read Full Story >>
trueachievements.com