130°

Xbox One's indie policy is the "best approach", says MS - ID@Xbox affords developers "total control"

"The ID@Xbox program is true self-publishing, all the power of the machine," says Harrison. [OXM]

theBAWSE3828d ago

key word's? 'says Microsoft'

let's forget the fact that plenty indies came out and spoke of their disgust at Microsoft money pinching ways

it's just another 180 from Microsoft which of course is fine until they start trying to claim their way is best... like the last couple months of backlash from the indies was just our imagination..

seriously Microsoft need a new PR team and a bit of humbleness

GarrusVakarian3828d ago (Edited 3828d ago )

I agree, they annoy indie gamers, the indie gamers speak out, MS change their policies towards indie gamers and now MS are saying they have best approach...its like they think we forget about the past few months.

Your blindly loyal customers might fall for this PR crap Microsoft but half intelligent gamers see right through it. You announce policies and stick to your guns on them, then a few weeks later after tons of backlash you perform a 180 and act like they have seen the light and have the "best approach".

MS, this is for you. http://williambeem.com/wp-c...

Mikelarry3828d ago (Edited 3828d ago )

i think this is to target the casual gamers who have not been in the loop. some gamers are not in the know about all that happened last couple of months and ms is banking on their early adopters to get this new message across to the casuals. it will work only the well versed of gamers will remember this and when we bring it up in discussion in the future don't be surprised when you get "link or it never happened"

XB1_PS43828d ago

That looks yummy. Lukas.

nukeitall3828d ago (Edited 3828d ago )

You forget that MS pushed XBL Arcade, then they pushed indie games before it was popular with XNA.

Even to this day, nobody allows indies to publish a console game for a mere $100, let alone the fact that MS has free tools and a great developer community behind it.

The competition requires indies to pay several thousand dollars for a dev kit, if they are even approved for one.

Low barrier to entry is with MS platform, not the competitors.

Maybe that is why they get so much flack, because the other devs getting a dev kit isn't going to speak up. They would jeoperdize getting banned, whereas on Xbox, anyone can publish and it is peer reviewed, thus no banning is possible.

You can't get banned and there is no review by the platformholder to get a dev kit, because your Xbox is the dev kit!

I expect a similar model on Xbox One!

rainslacker3827d ago (Edited 3827d ago )

@nuke

That's all good and fine, but that's not what they were doing with the X1 when all the devs spoke out against it. The worst part that got all those indie devs pissed off was requiring them to have a publisher to put a game on Xbox.

I haven't kept up with it, but from my understanding, MS has dropped support for XNA as of last year. Unless they have something else in the works, don't expect it to make an appearance on X1. I guess there's always Unity though.

The indie games in question here are a step above XNA. They are fully certified games that go through the same process as big budget games. Not all indie games are crap, nor all they all from small hobbyist studios. The ones we see talking out now are fully-fledged studios who decide to make smaller games with more production value than the average XNA game.

Also, On this day, Sony allows you to develop on the Vita for $99 through the use of PSMobile. PSP dev kits could be had for around $2000. Vita dev kits are around the same amount for the qualified indie studios out there. PS4 dev kits are being loaned out to qualified indie devs.

Sony is pushing indie games hard, whereas MS has backed away from everything that made indies love them this gen. Don't believe me? When did you ever think that you would see indie devs get a spotlight on the E3 stage? Notch maybe, but 6 devs all with a few minutes dedicated to showing their games is golden for them, and shows that Sony see's indie games as more than the most popular ones that happen to sell millions of units.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3827d ago
Thatguy-3103828d ago

Exactly lol when a company has to go out of their way to praise themselves then there is a problem. Indies have spoken.

majiebeast3828d ago (Edited 3828d ago )

I bet mentally he is doing this http://cdn02.cdnwp.celebuzz... during the interview.

No Indies to back up this claim unlike Sony who had more then enough devs that were praising their indie approach.

baodeus3828d ago

So can u give me a run down list of the differences between MS and Sony on HOW and WHAT they do to support Indies?

Self publishing?
Full access to console/dev kit?
Software support?
Other perks: cloud support?

It seems u just like to listen to what people say, but not on what they actually do. Any idea on how sony gonna support indie developers? Xbox lay out their plan, where is Sony?

rainslacker3827d ago

@baodeus

Sony gives out loaner dev kits. Sony gives heavy recognition and advertising to indies allowing for greater discovery.

Sony outright helps fund indie studio games such as Journey.

Sony has amazing software support for their development systems, I know, I've used it.

Sony has opened up internal channels so indies don't have to jump through as many hoops to get their game through certification.

Sony has a relatively low licensing fee for indie games.

MS layed out their plan, and indies spoke out against it in a big way. Now MS is changing some of those policies, and I have yet to see a single indie dev say how awesome it is. You know why? Because they don't know yet. If they don't know, then it's readily apparent that MS isn't telling them, or us for that matter, how or what they are doing to support indies.

Mr Pumblechook3828d ago

'Microsoft's approach to indie developers is best' - says Microsoft!

Insomnia_843828d ago

Microsh!t losing all respect from gamers (informed that is) one interview at a time.

Their arrogance is disgusting! Pathetic!

Blaze9293828d ago (Edited 3828d ago )

everyone giving MS slack here like they personally spit in your coffee individually. I don't get whats up with Sony fans and mixing their feelings into a business/gaming.

But anyway that's another topic:

"Every retail Xbox One can be unlocked to serve as a development kit at no additional charge, given the manufacturer's permission. Developers no longer have to pay a fee for Xbox Live game certification or title updates."

How is this NOT the "best approach" for indie developers? To where you can simply buy an Xbox One and unlock it as a devkit instead of relying on availability, make games on it, self publish, take down, price, etc? Complete control?

How is Son'y approach any better for indie developers? What exactly are they doing different that makes it a better approach?

malokevi3828d ago

Because "wahhhhh wahhhhhh wahhhhhh"

That's why.

As if anybody cares, anyways. They are all phonies.

DigitalAnalog3828d ago

@Blaze929:

According to indie devs, it's the support. I guess that means a lot than just having a "dev-kit" out of the box. Or they can use a PC.

rainslacker3827d ago (Edited 3827d ago )

In 2 months my current contract runs out with the program I am developing for a research study. These past couple months I, along with a few other people I know, plan on starting our own indie studio to produce a game we've been talking about for a while.

I have a comment up above as to what Sony offers in their indie programs, I won't repeat it here.

While all those things you say are good from MS, the fact remains that is all that is known about their indie policy at the moment. Believe me I've scoured high and low for more information, because that information is vital to what we will eventually do. I've even contacted MS directly, and all I get is a form letter saying more information will be made available when it's available.

On top of that, all those things you mentioned have no firm plans in place, and absolutely no word on when they will become available.

Sony on the other hand has a pretty firm indie policy in place. It's also extremely flexible. Sony doesn't hide it's indie policy from developers looking to get into it, they just don't go screaming from the rooftops that they have the best. They only assert the fact that they heavily support indie devs. From my own research, I can say they are well within their rights to do so.

MS on the other hand had the audacity to say that indie's HAVE TO HAVE a publisher to put a game on their system. They've since reversed that policy. Given that though, and the reveal, you'll have to forgive me for being a bit skeptical on what MS definition of "complete control" is.

@Malokevi
From this comment I just made, I think you can see why I care greatly about what MS indie policy is. What I see is a bunch of xbox fan boys who know nothing of indie development defending a policy that even indie devs aren't up to speed on. Not one single indie dev has come out praising MS new policies, yet you all want to say that MS is now doing the right thing because of a few corporate press releases and scripted interviews.

christocolus3828d ago

says ms and so? dont see any indies complaining anymore since they announced the programme.infact harrison said the last time they hecked they had thousands of applications..most indies know ms started this indie stuff with the 360 and many of them were made popular cos of ms and the 360 so the change of policy they wanted wasnt just to suit them it was also to make ms more focused and give gamers the best.most of them wanted the change for the better and ms did it so jst shut up and stop trying to spin everything into the negative..give it a break.

Hicken3828d ago

You're right that there aren't any more complaints from indie developers. But you know what else?

I don't hear of many- if any- new indie titles coming to XB1, either.

So, realistically, why would they keep complaining about a platform they've got no future plans to work on? It made sense at the start, because the consoles and their indie policies were just being made known to the public. But now, after all this time, there's no reason for indie devs to give their opinion on why Microsoft's policies suck, or sucked.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 3827d ago
OrangePowerz3828d ago

Fart apps incoming since they are in total control of what they develop.

DanielGearSolid3828d ago

How can any indie dev not be annoyed/insulted by this..
A few months ago its f*** Indies, now it's we do it the best?

Blaze9293828d ago (Edited 3828d ago )

when was it ever f indies?

http://marketplace.xbox.com...

http://marketplace.xbox.com...

theyve been doing this with XNA and competitions since 360 launched...3,101 total indie games up right now on Xbox LIVE vs how many on PSN? But they don't care? Yeah ok

GentlemenRUs3828d ago

Not what I saw over the past few months...

ITS A TRAP!

Zichu3828d ago

I've just read where it says "best approach" and they don't say their policy is the best approach, why else would the title only quote "best approach"?

It says:

"And maybe we're taking a slightly different approach to other platforms but we think this is the best approach to getting the most developers and the best games on the platform."

They're saying the way they are allowing indie developers to have the freedom to do what they want with the console is what they think is the best approach to get more developers making games for them, doesn't mean it's the best policy around...

Why are people trying to put a spin on everything that every company is saying, whether it be Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo...

MS might have goofed up earlier this year, they are making changes. They could have stuck with what they had, got less sales and completely flopped. Not all companies get it right the first time. It's like how people spout about how Steam is amazing and such, but I am pretty sure Steam hasn't always been amazing. I've read that it took them like 3 years before they started making a profit and took 3 years before they could get any third-party support. Steam has become what it is most likely through trial and error, it's a great service with many great deals, yet it took years for it to become anything.

Another example, PSN. PSN was slow as hell years and years ago, it was free, but that's all it had going for it. They brought in PS+, it only offered some discounts, betas, and such. It took them 2 years before PS+ was worth anything, which is when IGC came along.

rainslacker3827d ago

Despite all that, so little is really known about what their actual policies are. So little is known about when they'll be implemented. So little is known about how much support they'll actually give indie devs.

It's one thing to toot your own horn, but that has to be backed up by actions. The things they announced are great for an indie dev, but it's still new policy, and it hasn't been realized yet. People think that all these policies are in place now, but they aren't.

In the end, it's not really the gamers on forums MS has to convince. They will talk about what they will talk about. It's the indie devs themselves that MS has to convince, and I think that MS turned a lot of them off due to their initial policies, not unlike they turned off many gamers for their initial X1 policies.

If MS policies are good for indie devs, then they will get support from indie devs. It's not really that hard to grasp. If they were good now, we would see indie devs now speaking up. They aren't. This is why it's hard to take MS seriously on this. The title doesn't match the quote, no denying that, but just because MS thinks it's the best approach, doesn't mean that indie devs will feel the same way. I'm sure some will come around though. In fact I know some are coming around already. MS will have indie games, they just aren't a focus from what I can tell.

Show all comments (31)
60°

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340°

A $0.05 Component Delayed the PS3

In this month's IGN Unfiltered interview, Phil Harrison revealed a big reason why the PlayStation 3 released a year after the Xbox 360.

FallenAngel19841610d ago

I’m glad Sony didn’t rush PlayStation 3’s launch. Microsoft did so for Xbox 360 just to get an advantage over the competition and their console had one of the worse hardware malfunctions in history. Scratched discs, overheating and RRoDs out the wazoo. Add that to the no HDMI out of the box on launch units, no WiFi & myriad of other cost cutting decisions showed Microsoft cheaped out on so many things just for that headstart.

Jin_Sakai1609d ago

And still lost to PS3 in the end.

Artemidorus1608d ago

In fairness right at the end. Didn't do the same impact as Playstation 4

darthv721608d ago

both lost to the wii... big whoop

Brave_Losers_Unite1609d ago

The 360 was so outdated tech. A wifi adapter and the HD DVD addon LOL

Minute Man 7211608d ago

Outdated tech that could run games made on the PS3 1st better that the PS3.

Good-Smurf1609d ago (Edited 1609d ago )

My 360 went out within a month after purchase it was a nightmare and a fight to find a store that will fix it took me almost two months to find the right guy that can fix E74 error.
I liked that console had many great racing games that never came out on PS3 but damn was it unreliable to anyone who bought it before 2009.

TFJWM1609d ago (Edited 1609d ago )

Did MS not honor the warranty?

1609d ago
Atticus_finch1609d ago

It had way too many problems. And worst of all is that 360 is still Xboxs best console. SMH

crazyCoconuts1609d ago

I thought OG Xbox was there best because it pushed the bar way past PS2 with built in Ethernet and XBL

JEECE1609d ago

Gosh I always forget they shipped that thing without HDMI. I'm sure we all have bad memories of being at friend's house and seeing that they had their Xbox 360 set up on an HDTV through composite cables, while they obliviously talked about how they couldn't believe how good the graphics in Gears of War were. My eyes hurt just thinking about it.

crazyCoconuts1609d ago

Their software was superior though imo. Dashboard updates and XBL functionality was way ahead of PS. Party chat for example...

kitano19471609d ago

as it should be from a software company. I also liked their simple blade set up and found the PS3 interface slow and too much like a dvd, bluray interface

UnSelf1608d ago

the Wii was a fraction of the price and geared towards old women.

Should we compare candy crush downloads now?

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1608d ago
KeenBean3451609d ago

Another interesting reason for the delay was that the first batch of chips which Sony funded and ordered were defective, where as Microsoft bought backups from a 3rd party. So Microsoft got chips Sony funded even before Sony did, as Sony didn't consider the chance of Microsoft asking IBM for a chip, with IBM showing them what they were working on for Sony

Neither company had great luck during RnD last gen

Ripsta7th1609d ago

i love the disagrees
even when your talking sense , if it makes sony look bad youll get disagreed
this site is ran by Sony fanboys left and right
what a effin joke

Silly gameAr1609d ago

Why should the disagrees/agrees that someone else gets concern you? If this site bothers you so much, why are you still here?

KeenBean3451609d ago (Edited 1609d ago )

Yeah it's strange, there is loads of really interesting facts and stats about the 360s and PS3s development and I feel that not many people would know that. I never really worry about the agrees and disagrees, doesn't matter much :)

PhoenixUp1609d ago

- PS2 launches ahead of Xbox: PlayStation outsells it
- Xbox 360 launches ahead of PS3: PlayStation outsells it
- PS4 launches alongside Xbox One: PlayStation outsells it

Seems no matter what timeframe Microsoft releases their console they’ll still have less marketshare than Sony.

Even if PS5 were somehow delayed a year behind the next Xbox, I’m certain it’d still outsell it just like PS3 did to 360. Unfortunately for Microsoft the PS5 will release alongside the next Xbox.

Tross1609d ago (Edited 1609d ago )

There were holes in MS's strategy with the 360. They had a year head start, but they focused heavily on the short term. They paid off companies for exclusive DLC or timed exclusivity on games and DLC, but they didn't really focus a lot on securing studios, and the ones they had they didn't exactly put in the money to keep them firing on all cylinders.

That strategy paid off in the short term as for at least a few years the 360 was the system to have, but eventually that dried up while Sony first party studios kept turning out exclusives. That carried over into this gen where the XB1 had an alright launch lineup, but that dried up pretty quickly and that's why MS has recently had to go on a purchasing spree for studios to hopefully produce more games than their first party studios have been. Of course, the conclusion of their contract with Bungie didn't help either. Even if there was no DRM fiasco marring the XB1's launch I doubt it would have performed as well as the PS4 regardless.

SkatterBrain1609d ago

didnt microsoft close down alot of studios then now decided to go out and buy a few? i thought that was weird, im surprised some of Lionhead(Fable) went on to make media molecule( Little Big Planet, Tearaway, Dreams)

JEECE1609d ago

The problem for MS is they can't compete outside the United States. 360 absolutely dominated here, but got trounced everywhere else. I mean, Japan is not a huge market for home consoles anymore, but if the PlayStation basically gets basically an uncontested 10 million unit gap each generation, that matters a lot in the overall. Although MS does better in Europe than Japan, they still don't come close to PlayStation.

XONE is actually pretty competitive in the US. That's why you probably have friends who started really playing games on the 360 but don't follow the industry as a whole who have no idea that XONE got outsold so badly.

badz1491609d ago

nobody is big in Japan except for Nintendo now in the console space. it's been 6 years and the PS4 is yet to reach even 8mil let alone 10mil like you said.

DarkZane1609d ago

@badz149 8 millions for a home console is pretty good for Japan nowadays. As for the Switch, it's only doing so well in Japan because it's considered a portable console. If it was an actual home console like the PS4 and Xbox One (no portable mode), it wouldn't be doing nearly as well as it is right now and it would just sell at the same rate the PS4 did.

JEECE1609d ago (Edited 1609d ago )

@badz149

10 million was a reference to PS3 since that generation is done, and PS3 sold around that in Japan. PS4 is selling similarly there year by year, so it's a useful number.

Anyway, your comment illustrates my point: even if you assume 8 million, it's 8 million that are basically uncontested (XONE is under a million in Japan, maybe even under half a million). In a close gen like last one was (obviously this one isn't, but just as a hypothetical) a free 7 million unit advantage could be the difference between outselling your competitor or not.

XtaZ1609d ago

All those sales and Xbox has still beaten them out each gen by having the superior platform. Crazy how sales don't actually matter at all in the end for us consumers, huh.

Ripsta7th1609d ago

ps pro comes
xbox one x outpowers it

JEECE1609d ago

And neither unit has had any impact on the trajectory of the overall race. It's almost like a new, more powerful console isn't as enticing if there are going to be literally zero games designed from the ground up for its specs, rather than designed for a much weaker system and just given graphical improvements.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1609d ago
Thundercat771609d ago

And still against all odds the PS3 surpassed Xbox 360. Xbox has finished last in each of their console generations.

Immagaiden1609d ago

“Xbox has finished last in each of their console generations.“

Rewriting history much?

- Xbox outsold GameCube
- Xbox One outsold Wii U

badz1491609d ago

Wii U never existed. not even Nintendo wants to admit they released that one

Orionsangel1609d ago

PS3 launch was a fail. $599! Riiiidge Racer! Backlash!

Xbox One launch was a fail! The system will always be online. Backlash!

If these two consoles are taking turns on launch fails. PS5 launch will be a fail.

Oh no!

battletrax1609d ago

Playstation won't fail. They have proven talent with their games studios.

badz1491609d ago

@Orionsangel

that's like xbox fanboys biggest dream EVER!

Orionsangel1608d ago

I own both consoles. I have no stake in a console war or loyalty to a brand.

Dude Dutch1609d ago

After reading this I had to restart my brain

darthv721608d ago

PS3 was Sony's 3rd console, XBO was MS's 3rd console... if you look back throughout platforms where they released a 3rd console, it has historically been shown to not be as successful as their 2nd and sometimes 1st. Those that have gone on to release a 4th has fared better but not always.

Some call it a 3rd console curse.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1608d ago
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50°

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