Forza dev: You can't talk power unless you're informed

Forza Motorsport creative director Dan Greenawalt has claimed that talking about console power is pointless unless you're "super informed".

[Ksar]

So true.

Original Xbox was much more powerful than PS2 with its Nvidia GPU and Intel processor and yet most games looked the same and most people couldn't tell a difference.

PS3 was supposedly 2x more powerful than Xbox 360 and yet we didn't see even 00.1x the difference in power. Pretty much no difference at all. If any, Xbox 360 actually ran a lot of multiplatform games better.

Go ahead Sony fanboyz, press the negative button. N4G is filled with Sonyfanboyz. It'll only prove i am right. :)

[360ICE]

PS3 architecture was difficult to work with though, so yes, on multiplatform titles you didn't see much difference. Then again, PS3 exclusives have typically been the ones to push the boundaries in console graphics the last generation.

In other words, the frame rate in Uncharted 3 is so smooth I can't believe it's not butter, and with a polygon count that high one can easily be fooled into thinking it's edible. Especially with 3D glasses on. Halo 4 on the other hand, looks good but I can't eat it because I'm full.

[black0o]

the xbone camp is on defense campaign xD

[monkeyDzoro]

LoooL.

MS said : "Specs dont matter". Now they're talking specs all day long.

Sony isn't doing anything anymore. MS is doing all the job for them.

[monkeyDzoro]

LoooL. MS said previously "specs dont matter". Now they are talking about specs all day long. While Sony is chilling on their side.
LoooL

[Enemy]

What's funny is that they're talking about power as if:

1. They aren't using static backgrounds in Forza 5. Having a static background is like having a wallpaper. It's not modeled in 3D like a real environment, so 60fps is easily achievable.

2. They aren't using painted clouds. Like a static background, you have static clouds too, permanently formed in one shape.

3. They aren't using pre-baked lighting. The lighting in Forza is so fake and baked, that funnily enough, it makes Forza 5 look the opposite of real. Hey Turn 10, guess what; lighting in real life is completely random.

4. No night racing. What's the matter, your light bakes didn't work in night settings? Your game is so baked that it doesn't even work at night? Guess they didn't have time to bake the night. Positioning fake lights around a static track is harder at night, isn't it?

5. No weather effects. I think this goes to show what little risk Turn 10 are willing to take just to keep their 60fps.

I'm sorry Turn 10, but if the Xbone was as powerful as you're suggesting, then why does your game stink of last gen antics? Did you think no one would notice that you're so ashamed you never even talk about the technology you put into the game?

Power this, power that. Show it. Forza doesn't show it at all. It's a joke in comparison to real next gen games. As of now, it graphically looks like the COD of racing sims.

Enemy: Hey Turn 10, so how did you manage 60fps?
Turn 10: Well...
Enemy: Easy bake oven huh?
Turn 10: I...
Enemy: Fake and bake.

[BallsEye]

@black0o

Mark my words :P prepare for the storm on 30th

[UltimateMaster]

I honestly don't see much of a difference between the 2 consoles.

Both have amazing graphics, they both look realistic in any case.

[BallsEye]

@Enemy

The F?? Stop pulling your facts out of your butt. Forza has and always had fully modeled backgrounds, with trees, buildings, people and everything else.

Baked lighting ? where the f you get that from?

Painted clouds? Which racing game got 3d modelled clouds??

If forza looks like COD in racing sims then I wonder why everyone who played it say it's best looking racing game ever made. Also then you automaticly admit driveclub got SNES level of graphics, since it is not on par with Forza.

Stop posting wrong info around. You're just embarrasing yourself...but a hero in fanboys eyes.

[jimsas]

Uncharted 3 ran at 30fps ....Hardly smooth as butter

[mistertwoturbo]

So he talks about optimization on the hardware.

But don't these Microsoft people understand that if you optimize your software on better hardware, the better hardware will always be on top???

It's like they think it's the PS3 all over again, not realizing that the PS4 is just as easy to develop for (if not easier) than the Xbone, on top of having more powerful specs.

[FamilyGuy]

"You can't talk power unless you're informed"

He should be telling Penello that...

MS has been nothing but defensive this whole "console war". It's like watching a crappy boxing match where one guy does nothing but guard the whole time, rarely throwing out shots.

They're so concerned with all our comparisons and power discussions yet all they do is talk. SHOW US SOMETHING PHENOMENAL! Then talk.
I'm still waiting to be impressed by them.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...
http://s18.postimg.org/cnfm...
http://postimg.org/image/bv...
^Impressive stuff

[badz149]

@Turn10

Go tell THAT to your guy Panello. Being as uninformed as he is, he sure talks A LOT!

[Evilsnuggle]

I think xbone is underpowered . Looking at their games make me think xbone really is 50% powerful than PS4 . Forza is the xbone best game and it has flat backgrounds , Pre renderd lighting not real time lighting and no weather effects. Killer instinct is struggling for 720p 60fps. Dead rising 3 bad frame rate. Ryse bad frame rate pop ups and dropped animation . Xbone is looking weak PS4 is looking strong . Killzone SF is 1080p 60fps insane graphics . Infamous second son is CG quality 1080p 30fps open world game. DEEP DOWN looks incredible all the XBOTS said it was CG nope real game play nothing on xbone come close to the graphic of DEEP DOWN .

[buffig]

@Ballseye... Enemy is referring to the fact that DriveClub has real time dynamic lighting. Every object casts its own shadow. I.E not a single shadow is baked. The clouds in DriveClub are dynamic, so yes, they are "real" they move across the sky and physically effect the lighting and shadows of the world below. And even the smallest tree in the distance has been modelled. Regardless of whether you like the game or not, it is a fact that none of the above is true of Forza 5. The shadows are pre-rendered and baked into the texture map. Distant objects are part of the environment map, along with the clouds and sky. I've no doubt that it will be a great game, it's just that, these are facts.

[360ICE]

@jimsas
If you've played Uncharted 3, you know it's smooth a margarine. Sure it's 30, but it never drops a single frame. And with so many particles and explosions, it makes other games look tame.

A frame rate this slick, is enough to sedate a family of six.

[black0o]

@ballseye common sense u need some

[otherZinc]

@360ICE,

PS3, had problems with co-op games. The split ram in the PS3 was the problem. That's why PS3 games were so linear.

More proof, play Raibow6 Vegas on the PS3 & try and play 4 player co-op, then play the same game co-op on the 360 so you can eat your butter.

DOOM3 remake isn't even co-op BUT, the XBOX version is co-op. Same with the old Splinter Cell series that made it to the PS3, it lacks co-op, but you can still play co-op on the 360.

Borderlands was co-op but they had to hide the problems in cell shaded graphics. SONY stacked the deck with graphics because that's all they could do & make the game as linear as possible.

[thexmanone]

@ Enemy

Are you a developer?

[Eonjay]

If he feels so strongly about than Microsoft has no one but themselves to blame for not "informing" the rest of us. As a Computer Scientist, I can say without a doubt the a comparison of the two specs will always favor the PS4. Programming is one thing, but architecture is a complete victory for the PS4.

[360ICE]

@otherZinc
Rainbow Six Vegas from 2006/7? That game looked incredibly ugly on PS3. Why? Because it's a terrible port. I doubt that pushed PS3s limits in any way. 360 had the better version, and it was still ugly.

Anyway, PS3 exclusives aren't particularly linear next to Xbox exclusives. inFamous 2, for instance, runs great, looks great and isn't linear.

[GarrusVakarian]

"yet we didn't see even 00.1x the difference in power. Pretty much no difference at all. If any, Xbox 360 actually ran a lot of multiplatform games better."

What?! You have got to be either blind or you have never played any PS3 exclusives. Multiplats, yeah i agree 99% of the time they do look better on 360 (which is the reason i have over 100k gamerscore).

We did see the difference in power, in the 1st party exclusives. That's undeniable. I wouldnt go so far as " 2x more powerful" but games like Uncharted, God Of War , The Last Of Us and Beyond Two Souls (to name a few) all prove their was a power difference that only the 1st party devs took adnvantage of.

You all have a right to disagree, but i would advise using Google search to see which exclusives look better. Better yet, Youtube them, and even better than that, play them for yourself as i have.

But i will be fair here and say that Forza 4 is a very good looking game and one of my favourite 360 exclusives. Looking forward to playing 5 too.

[alb1899]

It is true that Uncharted looks better but was that that make this game so good?
I mean the difference in power is not enough to make a better enjoyable game.....not in this generation, not in the next.

[alb1899]

Lukas, I like graphics too but wasn't you impress when you saw gears of war......I was like dammmm!! Is this gameplay?
Look at GTAV, isn't it impressive graphically more than anything in this generation considering that is freaking big open world and guess what, it will be the same in 360!

[wiz7191]

The only reason uncharted was possible on the ps3 and not the 360 wasnt because of power ... the main reason was that sony used blu-ray which had way more storage space then the dvd-9 which Microsoft used. Uncharted 3 took up 40 gigs. Plus the 360 had a better gpu and more ram anyway while the ps3 used a better cpu

[otherZinc]

@Enemy,
And other haters,

Where's your link that has Forza 5 made with "baked" lighting? I know, ther e are none, you're just running your mouth.

Forza 5 has "Dynamic Range Lighting"!
Forza 5 is 1080p "native" @ 60fps!
Turn 10 cuts ZERO corners!

[GarrusVakarian]

People disagree with you doesn't prove you are right, it means people disagree with your opinion.

[GarrusVakarian]

@ alb1899

Yeah i agree, power has little do with a game being fun, but im talking strictly from a graphical perspective here :)

[chobit_A5HL3Y]

i love you morons who always say stupid stuff like, "disagree only proves that i'm right.", as if that actually means that you're right lolz or it could be, you know, that you're just wrong and you're talking out of your ass lolz

[TheMadHatter]

You've obviously never played games such as The Last of Us and Uncharted 2 and 3 which have been critically acclaimed and have superior graphics which express the full power of the PlayStation 3. I'd go far as to say it looks like a PC game being played on a TV. Technically, the PS3 is the more powerful system. Unfortunately it came at a cost.

[blackstrr411]

MGS5 says hello.

[Eiffel]

"I'd go far as to say it looks like a PC game being played on a TV. "

Either you've never played a game on medium to ultra settings, or you've missed your date at LensCrafters months ago.

[BallsEye]

While uncharted looks great, last of us got serious downgrade in graphics since first showing.
Nothing that amazing there.

http://community.us.playsta...

http://community.us.playsta...

[gamer2013]

All those games are graphically inconsistent throughout because of hardware limitations and they could all be done on the 360 just the same.

The 360 had unified ram which was better allocated and had a superior gpu. I wish you fanboys would stop spreading fud! Theoretical performance is meaningless. Devs have clearly stated that the differences between the two are just trade-offs and which are preferred most.

Developers should get credit not the hardware.

[KillerPigeon]

'Theoretical performance is meaningless.'

If it's good enough for Microsoft this time around...

[die_fiend]

Brain dead. Play Uncharted or The Last of Us and tell me what Xbox game is '00.1x' as good. By the way, writing '00.1x' is a pretty good way of showing how educated you are.

[jimsas]

I've played all the uncharted games and the last of us and can say categorically that gears of war 3 on the 360 looks way better.
that is all.

[die_fiend]

Well I've played gears of war 3 too. So I know you're talking crap. Gears 3 looked similar to gears 1. Yes one of the best looking 360 games, nothing in those games though

[CrossingEden]

Halo 4 hands down. It won best graphics of 2012 last year for a reason and the facial animation is much better than the keyframed crap we got in the last of us.

[Ezz2013]

@crossingeden

Halo 4 won in 2012 because it didn't have any strong ps3 exclusive to face in that year beside journey....(which also i think it look better too than any thing on xbox360)

on the other hand,uncharted 3 won in the 2011 when we had gears of war 3/crysis 2/killzone 3/infamous 2/batman arkham city/portal 2.etc

and please stop ,
the last of us facial animation was ahead of any thing we have seen this gen even DF among every single site called it a next gen game on current gen consoles :

*****DF: "Next-gen now?(in the title of the article)
"The Last of Us is also unrivalled in terms of its emotional portrayals: facial muscle simulations - using what looks like animated normal maps and an underlying bone structure - reveal a range of expressions that convey feelings with great subtlety. Even small changes such as eye movements are rendered with unrelenting accuracy. Emphasis on such minuscule details really make Ellie, Joel and the supporting cast feel alive and responsive, especially when they play off of each other as events occur around them."
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
********
it pretty much a fact that most sites and gamers think it's the best looking console game and GOTG contender too

if halo 4 was coming in this year aganist the last of us ,God of war ascension,beyond two souls
it would lose....badly

hehe, here come the disagrees

[okmrman]

my penis is bigger than all of you in here anyway

what

[pyramidshead]

Lol people pressing the disagree button has nothing to do with the validation of your statement but more to do with the realistic sign of people, who may have even joined up less than a week ago, have witnessed some(if not most/all) of your previous comments and realise that you are a Grade D Xbot troll, grade D because you make it so damn obvious people probably don't even need to read your comments any more.

At least ninja troll like the others do, it makes for a more interesting comment section. ;).

[WarThunder]

Why do you make multiple accounts and spam the comment section with the same comment?

Damage control much...

[Kayant]

Hmmm I guess you should tell major nelson that ---> http://majornelson.com/2005...

Because by his logic X360 has more bandwidth than the XB1 or PS4.

[nypifisel]

You do realize this time around it's the biggest gap we've had (not counting sprite consoles). And there's no mystery with the x86 architecture, it's straightforward and we already know which machine will preform better, just by hardware fact sheets, there's no disputing this. It's like comparing two PCs this time around, no "secret architecture sauce" nothing.

Fact, the PS4 is more powerful and it will show in all games this time around, whether it'll be higher resolution or more fps, be sure of one thing - it's an indisputable fact that the PS4 will have better performing(!) games and probably better looking (talking Multiplat) so really no, there is no "We have to wait till the games get released for comparison", there are no reason why the PS4 wouldn't come out on top every time

[mediate-this]

Its not the biggest gap, how can you say that? The systems are not out yet!! And the games have yet to be played. Wait till both systems are taken apart.

I agree the ps4 sounds like its the more powerful system of the two, but to say its 50% more powerful with out the systems out is crazy talk.

I remember the whole ps3 before it was out was suppose to be more powerful because of the cell, all the people on here were touting that cell was this technical marvel. But then people were talking about the cell being a super computer, and sounds to me they googled the info.

Anyways 360 had the unified ram, which made it on par. Just wait till both are out, some guy will give a technical breakdown of the two. Im buying both day one,

[xDHAV0K24x]

This shit is like a sports franchise having a great off season just cuz they signed great free agents. Looks promising on paper but only time will tell if the potential is ever met.

[nypifisel]

Did you read what I said? There is no secret sauce we know exactly how these machines will preform, for the first time it's plain and simple x86 architecture. There is no need to wait, ask any computer wiz

[Wescyde]

I can give everyone keys to the same Ferrari, does not mean they will all know how to drive it as good as the next person.

All this stuff is great for both consoles if you know how to use the power given to you

[GarrusVakarian]

Exactly, 3rd party devs were given the exact same PS3 that 1st party devs had, but because the 1st party devs took the time to learn the architecture, they produced the best looking exclusives.

[GarrusVakarian]

Also, i find it extremely ironic that you say "so true" when agreeing with Dan Greenwalt about not speaking about power unless you are informed and then you go ahead and make up numbers like "2x" and "00.1x" and try to pass them off as fact. Haha.

[Stsonic]

Everyone at Xbox seems like a giant ass hole at the moment. I don't think I have had more hate for a single company in my life.

GTFO

[gamertk421]

Hahaha, so angry! Go MS!

[Kingnichendrix]

no way, the original xbox had better graphics. the 360 initialy ran multiplats better but we started seeing games like crysis and battlefield 3 look better and also mass effect 2 and 3 in fact look up the comparisons now.

[humbleopinion]

- Original Xbox games looked much better Than PS2. If you couldn't tell the difference then it's your own eyes you need to examine.

- The sad truth (people were reluctant to hear for so long) is that the PS3 wasn't even 1x as powerful as the Xbox 360. That is why again we saw multiplatform games on the 360 eclipsing the PS3 counterparts. Nothing to do with lazy dev, simply with a more limited and restrictive hardware: less ram, less solid architecture and weaker GPU.
This is why fanboys always stuck to talking about exclusives graphics: when a game is running on just one platform, you can never see how much better or worse it would run on the other platform, and comparing different games to discuss graphic tech is pointless when people don't understand what they're talking about (exactly what Dan says here). However, when two copies of the same game run in parallel... that's where the facts speak for themselves.

- And this is the first time things are just the other way round: The PS4 is stronger no matter how you look at things. Maybe it's not 50%, maybe it's not 40%, but the difference in performance can't be ignored and multiplat games this time will look better on the PS4.

[Eyeco]

"Original Xbox was much more powerful than PS2 with its Nvidia GPU and Intel processor and yet most games looked the same and most people couldn't tell a difference. "

Are you serious, Have you ever played an Original Xbox game, did you jump the boat this gen ? EVERYTHING looked better on the original Xbox EVERYTHING, not only that but everything, performed better, faster load times,sharper texures, SMARTER AI, just watch every single Gamespot video review on multiplats from 2001-05 almost always they stated the Original Xbox version was the best. I spent allot of time on all 3 consoles of the 6th gen especially the Xbox, most people I knew owned a PS2 yet they were still aware of the fact that they're favourite games like GTA looked marginally better on the Original Xbox.

I think the only exceptions were games like MGS2 I think that suffered from a dodgy framerate, besides that almost everything looked better on the original Xbox, the Splinter Cell games are a perfect example of this especially Chaos theory, games like FarCry, Ninja Gaiden, Doom 3 , Half-Life 2 were actually planned to appear on the PS2/GC were scrapped because those systems plain and simply couldn't handle them. And seeing as those games were the best looking on that system I can see why.

When you look at the gap between console's in terms of power, the Original Xbox (next to the Neo Geo) was easily the most powerful console in gaming history heck there are original Xbox games that visually smoke anything on the Wii, you and the 23 people that agreed with you are beyond misinformed

[Cuzzo63]

Ps3/xbox360. are you referring to multiplats?
Anyway. Anything Micro says has to be the truth huh.
Micro: We have the most exclusives...
Mbots: We have the most exclusives. If you think otherwise you are a dumb fanboy

Micro: We have the best looking games. Last of Us what!?
Mbot: Nothing looks better than 360 games. The cell is over rated. Last of us looks like trash. If u think otherwise you are a dumb fanboy

Micro: We have the best selling console for 30 years straight.
Mbot: Ps3rd is trash! Will never pass 360 in sales. Sony is doomed and will go out of business... Muah hahahahaha....

Pretty much the thinking of most hardcore xbox360 fans this gen

Ps.

There were some multiplates that performed better on ps3. Not one xbox game looks better than Uncharted. Not gonna go thru the others. Would embarrass somebody

[AyKKon]

I pressed the agree button Ksar because you say nothing but the truth. Wishfull thinking is indeed "en vogue" these days if people think they can distinguish a pixel less or more from one another. Games will virtually look the same. I do agree exclusive may make the difference but muilti plats will looks identical and almost to impossible to tell apart for the naked eye.

[SoulSercher620]

And yet PS3 exclusives were graphically better than the 360

[NextGen24Gamer]

• 18 CU's vs. 12 CU's =/= 50% more performance. Multi-core processors have inherent inefficiency with more CU's, so it's simply incorrect to say 50% more GPU.
• Adding to that, each of our CU's is running 6% faster. It's not simply a 6% clock speed increase overall.
• We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted.
• We have at least 10% more CPU. Not only a faster processor, but a better audio chip also offloading CPU cycles.
• We understand GPGPU and its importance very well. Microsoft invented Direct Compute, and have been using GPGPU in a shipping product since 2010 - it's called Kinect.
• Speaking of GPGPU - we have 3X the coherent bandwidth for GPGPU at 30gb/sec which significantly improves our ability for the CPU to efficiently read data generated by the GPU.

[ShwankyShpanky]

If you're going to copy/paste Penello's NeoGAF BS, it's only fair to direct people to the place they can see it torn apart: http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

I'll summarize:
1) Graphical processes are inherently parallel. Scaling inefficiencies are not nearly as apparent with highly parallel computations. Regardless, is "only," say, a 30% performance disadvantage for the Xbone anything to brag about?
2) What's the difference? How do you get greater than 6% overall increase with just 6% increase per core?
2b) So 50% more CUs results in less than a 50% performance gain, but a 6% CU clock increase results in *more* than a 6% performance gain? Wha?
3) Magic Micro-Math! Magic Micro-Math says the 360 has higher bandwidth than the Xbone! Fact is that the *vast, vast, vast* majority of memory (32MB eSRAM is *0.4%*... LESS THAN HALF OF 1 PERCENT... of the 8GB DDR3) is stuck at 68GB/s.
4) Apparently MS and their friends at the NSA are doing a little industrial espionage. How else could Penello claim a 10% advantage when Sony hasn't released their final CPU clock or their audio chip details? Not saying it's necessarily going to happen, but I'm gonna laugh my balls off if Sony comes in at 1.8GHz+
5) No one cares what you "understand," MS. Your software engineers aren't God's gift to programming. This bullet is nothing more than saying "but we're so awesome!" as if it's some kind of technical argument.
6) See point 4.

Tell me, E24G... do you also know a wizard? I mean "Technical Fellow?"

Just like so many said on GAF... MS needs to give up the spec war. It is already lost, and Micro-Math won't save it. Focus on your games and other features. Trying to argue that the Xbone has more horsepower, or even horsepower parity, is a farce and does you no favors.

http://i.minus.com/ilERlIua...

[ShwankyShpanky]

P.S.

Xbox One GPU:

768 GCN shader cores with 853MHz
48 TMUs
16 ROPs
1.31 TFLOPS
40.9 GTex/s
13.6 GPix/s
8GB DDR3 with 68GB/s + eSRAM voodoo (min. 109 GB/s, max. 204 GB/s)
2 compute command processors
something between 2 and 16 parallel compute queues
GPU cache bypass: no

PS4 GPU:

1152 GCN shader cores with 800MHz
72 TMUs
32 ROPs
1.84 TFLOPS
57.6 GTex/s
25.6 GPix/s
8GB GDDR5 with 176GB/s
8 compute command processors
64 parallel compute queues
GPU cache bypass: yes

[ShwankyShpanky]

P.P.S.

Microsoft exec defends Xbox One from accusations it’s “underpowered”
http://arstechnica.com/gami...

Penello: "18 CUs [compute units] vs. 12 CUs =/= 50% more performance. Multi-core processors have inherent inefficiency with more CUs, so it's simply incorrect to say 50% more GPU."

Ars: "The entire point of GPU workloads is that they scale basically perfectly, so 50% more cores is in fact 50% faster."

Penello: "Adding to that, each of our CUs is running 6% faster. It's not simply a 6% clock speed increase overall."

Ars: "What the hell does that even mean?"

Penello: "We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted."

Ars: "Just adding up bandwidth numbers is idiotic and meaningless. While the Xbox One's ESRAM is a little faster, we don't know how it's used, and the PS4's GDDR5 is obviously a lot bigger."

Penello: "We have at least 10% more CPU. Not only a faster processor, but a better audio chip also offloading CPU cycles."

Ars: "Maybe true."

Penello: "We understand GPGPU [general processing on GPU] and its importance very well. Microsoft invented Direct Compute, and have been using GPGPU in a shipping product since 2010—it's called Kinect."

Ars: "Who cares about the API? It really doesn't make much difference."

Penello: "Speaking of GPGPU—we have 3X the coherent bandwidth for GPGPU at 30gb/sec which significantly improves our ability for the CPU to efficiently read data generated by the GPU."

Ars: "I don't know if that's even true."

[mediate-this]

You could definitely tell the dofference, ghost recon comes to mind when comparing ps2 and xbox original titles

[AngelicIceDiamond]

The only ones that are insecure around here imo are Sony fans at the moment. Xbox can't do this, its fake. Xbox can't do that, its fake. Albert Panello is a liar and everything is fake.

Greenawalt says: "So when you're building the game and you make a bespoke engine that was built for the platform, and the platform is optimised for the type of work you're doing, it's very important where the power is and where the optimisations are.

"So we have 1080p resolution, we have 60 frames per second and more than that we have the Cloud. And the Cloud allows us to deliver things that I've wanted to deliver for ten years now."

Also fake don't listen to any devs of MS, because they don't know what they're talking about its a PR circle. That's the impression of Sony fans right now. Super Duper insecure.

Whatever, I'm done arguing I know what I'm buying I don't need to push my justifications in peoples faces. I play great games not specs and insecurity, that's yalls thing not mine.

[ShwankyShpanky]

I know... right? MS's less powerful box and trainwreck PR sure does leave me feeling insecure.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

@Shwanky If you don't like it, then don't worry about it and buy PS4 like you were planning to do. Your not buying it so concentrate on the console that your buying and don't have night sweats over the X1.

Take your "insecurities" else where.

Btw thank you for proving my point lol.

[ShwankyShpanky]

I don't like the Xbone, I certainly don't "worry" about the Xbone, and I "concentrate" on the PS4 by reading the articles that are posted about it.

But console wars/fanboy wars are damn entertaining. And who doesn't stop and gawk at a train wreck?

[AngelicIceDiamond]

@Shwanky Hey at least you admit you don't like it that's ok. Everyone has a preference.

My goal is to have both. I wanna enjoy all the offerings.

[Cuzzo63]

@Angelic...
Seems like ur the one insecure lol. Look at ur posts. Wow!

[AngelicIceDiamond]

Explaining how fanboys feelings makes me insecure?

Lol nice try I'll be enjoying Ryse, BF4, Watch Dogs. Features like snap, Smart Match, Skype call/party chats.

And very soon I'll be on the front lines on Killzone, Tearing crap up in Infamous and loads of exclusives that Sony will announce next year. all the while Sharing my experiences and getting an instant game collection.

Yep, I'm VERY insecure.

[edgeofsins]

I'm glad you chose that exact quote, because the "cloud" has been around for more then ten years. But them overusing that term makes you think they have something new, doesn't it?

That is a perfect example of PR. The cloud is whatever is hosted over the internet on another computer. Nothing is special about the Azure cloud. When Titanfall devs made matchmaking sound special and Turn 10 tried to make you believe the cloud was doing all the user-ai work, when most will be done on the console and just hosted onto the cloud, you were fooled.

Funny you reuse "insecure" a lot. You're only trying to justify and pretend Microsoft doesn't try to fool people; I just talked about the cloud thing, and it is Microsoft who changed everything because they themselves were insecure, they are trying to find excuses to make it sound equal to PS4 in performance and when that doesn't go smoothly they talk of the "experience", which is one of the main reasons people don't want it because they highly emphasize them over the core product and so far haven't shown promise to anyone; I am talking of Kinect and TV integration.

So far I only know one, maybe two people getting/wanting a xbox one over a PS4 and they don't exactly research or keep up with the news about things. They just follow the brand, which is a huge risk for $500.

As for you being insecure, well if you are going to bring up the most brought up X1 exclusive, Ryse, mention a minor feature like snap, brag about paywall features like Skype, and pretend "smart match" is anything new then yes, we are going to call you insecure for arguing with little information on the matter. That's like saying Live has some edge over PSN when it comes to online games. It depends on the developers online set up, not the service, both systems have the same online potential, yet oddly the f2p one has far more games with dedicated servers like Resistance, Warhawk, Starhawk, Killzone, and MAG. Which company merely bought online infrastructure? Microsoft. Which actually has the full experience of working with it? Sony.

[johndoe11211]

Happy to oblige: Disagree pressed.

[3-4-5]

Gamecube was even more powerful than the Xbox, and yet it was less than half the size.

Nintendo at that time, knew how to get more power in a smaller box than anyone.

So much so they kept the exact same design internally almost for the Wii.

[die_fiend]

Where did u find that GameCube was more powerful than the Xbox? Are u sure it wasn't just that nintendo's games looked much better?

[mediate-this]

Game cube was not more powerful then the xbox. What are you on?? It was xbox gamecube then ps2 in ters of power.

The game cube was powerful.

[DoesUs]

LMAO! Alberts numbers are terrible. The fact you are posting them here is absolutely priceless! Wait till this, wait till that! But but the DGPU'S!! You sir fail at everything you post! XB1 is inferior ....end of. I'll see you in November!

[redcar121]

good point but the sony reaper is coming 4 you now lol x1 all day

[NeloAnjelo]

MS is just on a reassuring campaign, from the back pedalling, to the so called upgrades... Just so people get fooled to buy their big ugly square brick... again! Show me one exclusive on 360 that looked better than The Last of Us!

MS fanboys go on about the cost of the PS3 and multiplatforms games looking better...How much did it cost you to do what the PS3 did at launch? HDMI, Bluray, and built in Wifi? Instead you got a rushed red ring mess and had to wait until the revised version to even come close to par. The PS3 was genuinely new tech, powerful and REALIABLE. It still outsold MS worldwide although a year late.

Keep buying into MS BS! And keep paying to get your subscriptions from behind that XBLA pay wall! They couldn't even answer simple questions about the console. You know why? Because pple would see the BS, and the wool being pulled over their eyes.

[assdan]

The negative or positive button doesn't prove if you're right. But the two are running more similarly than previous consoles, and the ps4 simply has stronger hardware. Also, it shows how much you know about power when nvidia immediately means stronger. And also, if you compare ps3 exclusives to 360 exclusives, it looks a lot better. I just don't get why they can't admit the XBONE is weaker and advertise in other ways. Many 3rd parties have gone out and said that the ps4 is stronger. Also, everyone agrees that the original xbox was a lot stronger than the ps2.

[SilentNegotiator]

So...what? EVERY developer is uninformed?

[TheLog]

"Because it's kind of like the difference honestly between, 'Which is faster, a 500 horsepower Mustang or a 400 horsepower BMW M3?' It's not an easy question."

People can be blind, silly or maby this place is run by Sony employees or peope with share lol. Which is faster 500 horsepower Mustang or a 400 horsepower BMW M3?

Easy! It depends on the driver!

Which is better, kickboxing or muay thai?

Easy! It depends on the fighter!

Which is better Ps4 or X1?

[Magicite]

you are blinded by own dellusion. PS3 isnt 2x more powerful than x360 yet its excslusives look way better than anything on x360.
Have fun loosing your last bubble.

[Tapioca Cold]

Before I read this, does this guy "inform" us?

[rangel]

No you're wrong!Before multiplatform games were a little clearer for 360.But now 8 of 10 multiplatform games look better on ps3.for example crysis 3 assassins 3 far cry 3 bioshock 3 bf3.And each exclusive for ps3 looks phenomenal.
http://www.lensoftruth.com/...

[TheTwelve]

...so says a dev from a console that is considered less powerful. Predictable. Non-biased sources are more trustworthy.

[RiPPn]

I like your sarcasm, sad that you're getting so many disagrees, funny bubble from me. :)

[SuperLupe]

Non biased like Sony first party devs ? Or non biased like Kojima or Carmack saying both consoles are the same ?

Or maybe non biased like random people on internet forums ? You know those people that were screaming at the top of their lungs that MS was in trouble because it hadnt passed FCC yet when it already had 5 freaking months ago ?

Or maybe non biased like people who say "my dev friands told me ..." ?

[I_am_Batman]

Of course 1st parties will always try to make their console look good. However 3rd party devs will try to stay neutral for the most time to not ruin their relationship with MS or Sony.

If it really is that important to you to know which console is more powerful I suggest you pick up some tech magazines and try to learn as much as you can about hardware to make your own judgement.

[nypifisel]

You don't really understand what criticism of sources means do you? No, Sony first party devs are not reliable sources, and neither are MS. But third party sources doesn't have to be neither - they got interest in being on MS good side, so of course they would never publicly say anything that would make the X1 look worse. However, behind closed doors many third party devs have spoken their mind and every single one have said that the PS4 is preforming better. But AGAIN we don't need them to tell us this, it's x86, we already know which one will preform better - there are no secret sauce

[Evilsnuggle]

XBOTs favorite quotes John carmack they pick the part the like . Carmack said PS4 and xbone are very much alike they are. Both 86x and both AMD CPU and GPU he said he has not benchmarked so he can't say that one is more powerful. PS4 GPU has 50% cu graphic cores and 100% rops Render output unit . Please stop kojima never said PS4 and xbone where the same he said he likes KINECT . XBOTS have to lie to make the xbone look better. Lol lol lol :D

[mediate-this]

And i find that funny, alot of the articles that says ps4 is more powerful are people saying: well my my friend who is a dev said that ps4 is this much stronger and faster.

Journalism at its best, or should i say video game journalism at its best

[SilentNegotiator]

The reason we know that PS4 is more powerful is from third party developer's **********QUOTES**********. The guy from People Can Fly, Avalanche studios, Gaijin Entertainment, Just Add Water, etc, etc, etc.

This isn't a "he said, she said" rumor. Quit being delusional.

[B-radical]

All i want is side by side comparisons of 3rd party titles

[DARK WITNESS]

unfortunately that will not give you the answer you are looking for. third parties typically will just make the game for the lowest common spec.

some may go out of their way to push both systems, but not many.

also if it's true that MS had a policy basically making sure 3rd parties didn't make anything that showed up the 360's as being weaker, I have a feeling they will prob have the same policy in place.

[B-radical]

Well that policy may not be true cause not every 3rd party game looked better on xbox 360

[nick309]

Who cares what people online think? Imma enjoy all exclusives from All consoles, even wii u and 3ds.. More consoles = more exclusives :D

[Magicite]

i wish all games would be on one console, like in ps2 times. or at least all worthy games

[dazzrazz]

Its okay guys they have ze power of the cloud and can make game look like 10 xbox ones taped together and improve AI 600 times !

[BallsEye]

Hi

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiWdJ xshWMM

Nvidia cloudlight demo. Shows cloud lighting computing on a cloud server even at 500ms. But sure retards on n4g will call it witchcraft and say it still doesn't work.

[Hicken]

Now try integrating that into processes running real-time across a network. Then try making it something more important than that, such as AI or particle effects, things that would really be a drain on a console.

Nobody says cloud computing isn't possible. We're all saying that Microsoft was full of it when they said it could make the XB1 3, 4, 10X more powerful. The cloud CAN be counted upon for minor, unimportant functions to free up a little power for your local hardware, but not enough to be significant.

When Nvidia or anybody else can show their cloud-generated processes being integrated real-time with local-hardware processes in a dynamically changing world- like a video game, where the player is always altering something through interaction- without being affected by latency or bandwidth issues at even the slowest of internet speeds, THEN the cloud can be something to brag about.

Until then, stop using what's essentially a tech demo to prove Microsoft is doing something that can't yet be done.

[SkullBlade169]

Yeah, a demo where there are very few clients using the cloud service at once, it won't be as smooth when you have millions of Xbox One's sending requests for these servers to render graphics for them all at once.

Plus, this is Nvidia technology, the Xbox One uses AMD technology which will obviously not support this, they'll have to try and use some kind of functional equivalent.

Offloading processing to cloud servers is the stupidest idea I've ever heard, any kind of service interruption or lag spike could make the entire program go to hell. Plus whenever they decide to stop running the service, you won't be able to play your game at all anymore.

[Magicite]

You forgot to add that cloud computing is still in the progress and will be available only after years

[5h4h4b]

Super informed like " ALBERT PANELLO " :)

[NarooN]

Who posted some nonsense and was subsequently shredded to pieces on NeoGAF, lol.

[B-radical]

It's spelt penello and also he did say he was gonna try to get someone who helped made the box to talk on gaf

[5h4h4b]

Ok Sir I got it PENELLO. So what was the need of jumping into neogaf and posting info of which he has no clue. I mean that is what this gentleman Dan is saying. You shouldn't talk about power unless you are super informed. He should have sent someone "super informed" to begin with. This is the reason MS PR has become laughing stock of gaming industry recently.

[DoesUs]

He got tortured..and rightly so! His numbers were bonkers, and getting certain PS4 specs wrong on the process did him absolutely zero favours...at every turn they look desperate. They'll say ANYTHING to get that gap appear closer...sadly, they just created a capable machine...just not the most powerful out of the 2. Comes with lots of hoops to jump through mind!

[T2]

Ya funny how a, company exec suddenly is informed but tech geeks on neogaf are dumb ? Sorry ill takethe geeks

[refocusedman]

This is getting ridiculous, all this talk abt which system is more powerful is irrelevent until we can actually see and play games for said system. As for the forza guys saying its useless to talk abt power unless your informed, I think its a bit hypocritical when not too long ago they were screaming from the mountain tops abt the power of the power of the ominous cloud. Last time I checked their is no factual evidence proving that the cloud will make xb1 exponentially more powerful. Now that people are commenting on "verified specs" the masses are uninformed.

[5h4h4b]

These flamebait articles are good for scoring quick points :P

[bunfighterii]

Well TBH this guy is about less than 'super informed' when it comes to Xbox One v PS4. He works for a MS owned studio, ergo, he has no PS4 dev kit, just an Xbox One dev kit. We've been hearing from devs working on both consoles stating that the PS4 is more powerful.

Also, devs working exclusively on the Xbox One keep talking about the power of the cloud, as if it will make graphics, physics, AI etc. etc. better. But when happens when you're not connected? Your game is suddenly broken? MS may have reversed its DRM policies but the way devs keep talking about the cloud it seems as if you will always need to be connected with a lot of games anyway.

[Niv]

A $400 console is more powerful than a $500 one.

[stuna1]

Yes! That's about it.

[Animal Mutha 76]

I think a lot of what Dan says is PR spin to sell his product but in this instance I agree with him.

None of us are informed enough to know how powerful these next gen consoles really are. It's all speculation from armchair engineers.

When they get released I will await the tear downs and examinations made by industry professionals.

All it is on here is willy waving. The games themselves are important and in that respect Forza 5 looks like its running on powerful hardware.

I shall try it and some PS4 games at Eurogamer Expo in London on the 26th. Who's gonna join me?

[jimsas]

I'll be there .... on the 27th ,
I have to say I saw the ps4/XB1 at gamescom and also on holiday at e3 and from what I saw and i know its not apples to apples but the games on X1 looked better than what I saw on the ps4, Driveclub certainly looked and ran worse than Forza 5 which to my eyes looked really really good.
I've currently got both machines on pre-order but I'll be making a final choice nearer the time and cancelling one or the other, right now I'm looking at keeping the X1, I know its not the popular choice but the OS, Games coming out all said next gen to me - ps4 obviously very good as well but it just seemed like a souped up ps3, the X1 seems to do everything the ps4 does and more but with a better UI.
I dont know whether it was because forza was really well optimised (more so than drive club ) but forza clearly was better looking , ran smoother and sounded great.
driveclub felt a little rushed and some of the textures looked flat in comparison.
killzone looked ok though, although certainly not 60fps in SP as some are saying.

[Animal Mutha 76]

Yep I know what you mean. XB1 just feels more next gen for me at the moment. I have an XB1 on order and thought that I'd wait and see how PS4 turns out before considering one perhaps middle of next year if it's any good or the multi plats turn out to be significantly better on PS4 which I somehow doubt at this stage.

I'm also excited for Forza and will look to try this and Titanfall at Eurogamer.

Hope you enjoy the show..I'm actually going on Sunday 29th not 26th so you'll have the fun before me :)

[byeGollum]

you heard? That goes to all those that pretend to know sh-t about hardware. Force feedin' false info to the other sheep ^_^. oh the "powah".

[christocolus]

(fanboy arrogance and bias aside pls)..Dan greenwalt certainly does have a point.if you aint informed then don't go shouting off how one console will easily kill off the other in the graphics dept...patience is key..launch is just 2months away now...no body wants to end up eating their words or looking stupid. At launch fbs can make all the comparisons they want and then 6months later more comparisons will be made with the post launch titles cos at this point both companies seem very sure of what they've built..so we will finally get to see who is right and if there really is such a difference in power between the two..but one thing is certain,the games won't lie..they will surely speak for themselves.... ..this is going to be freaking awesome to watch

[jimsas]

See my above post.
From what I saw at e3 and gamescom if the Xb1 is less powerful you certainly couldn't see it from the games on show.
Ryse looked good and played much better than i thought it would sort of arkham city combat with god of war style QTE ( but not as much as it looks like from the videos- the QTE seemed optional to perform like a finishing kill you didn't have to do it if you didn't want)
just to reiterate, to my eyes forza looked better than driveclub, i hope sony's first party driving games (ie GT) come up to scratch because from what I saw Forza killed it, and Drive club is an exclusive so surely they should be taking advantage of that 50% more power? so if the X1 is underpowered in comparison so far as i could make out there was no indication from what i saw.

[jimsas]

Update : I love the way that I've got disagrees already (obviously from the Sony camp) but what exactly are You disagreeing with ?

I was at E3 and at Gamescom , I actually held the controllers in my hand and stood 2 feet away from the screen and what I experienced on X1 was better in my opinion than PS4.

Disagree all You want lads, I played the games ,and i had up until an hour ago both consoles on Pre-order but I can tell you for a fact Forza 5 looked and played better than driveclub and Ryse had visuals that were the best I've seen in a game ( that includes Crysis 3 running on two gtx 680's in sli), and because of this I've decided to cancel my PS4 pre-order and go with the X1.

Killzone did look great on the PS4 but performance WAS NOT 60fps!!

If the PS4 is indeed so easy to code and truly has 50% more power than it was not evident at either show so far as I saw.

I saw nothing on PS4 that i think couldn't be done on the X1 and I'll state again what I saw on X1 looked better, ran at higher framerates and (notwithstanding the noise in the hall) I think sounded better too.

It may be that the games were better optimised for the X1, or the devs working on them (forza especially) are just super talented and are just getting more out of the machine but honest to god I think you'll be surprised how good the X1 is come nov 22nd.

In time PS4 may pull away and become the holy grail so many of you on here think its gonna be but to my eyes , ears and senses the games on the X1 were of a higher standard and i think some of you come release day when the multi platform games are available for comparison will be forced to eat humble pie.

PS - Killer Instinct was surprisingly fun.
PPS - I didn't play titan fall so can't comment.

[christocolus]

jst read your comment....nice .lol at the disagrees though..

[bobtheimpaler]

Then he should tell Albert Penello to keep quiet. ROFL

[Lboogieskells]

Lets put this to bed already, PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox one.

[Kingnichendrix]

yeah but the powerpack has a gtx titan inside it so ps4 is weaker :3

[blackstrr411]

METAL GEAR GROUND ZEROES> Uncharted series, GOW series and it is multiplat. Xbox360 and Ps3 are the same. Gheeeeze

[Lboogieskells]

Ground Zeroes was a tech demo, that hasn't even been seen running on the 360 yet. #instantRROD

[GodGinrai]

He has a point though. How many gamers became overnight computer and software engineers when it comes to specs. When I posted up the original and FACTUAL article from hotchips(via semiaccurate) each of those articles got 50- odd comments.as soon as rumours like "the secret sauce" popped up, N4g explodes over non factual rumours.

I just thought that to be a bit odd...nobody wants to talk about facts but everybody want to use articles based on rumours to kick MS in the teeth? even though they dont know anything about specs other than "well this number is higher and therefore must be better".

Im done with this site after the 22nd of november.

Disagree, with no response....guess my comment hit a nerve...

[Lboogieskells]

Numbers don't lie, if everyone used their common sense this wouldn't even be an issue.

Microsoft tinkering with settings to make their inferior parts work more efficient won't change the facts. They push and optimize all they can until the system has nothing else to give. What happens when Sony does the same?

What makes you think the same can't be done on the Sony's side? To finish this off, Microsoft is a desperate Majin Vegeta who can fight on par with Goku (Sony) who theoretically not even trying his best, because he can go SS3 at anytime he'd like.

I'd just like to give a shoutout to the big homie Mark Cerny. Thanks for letting these Microsoft guys breath a little. The absence of your tech talks have made the fight a little more interesting.

[gamer2013]

I agree. Can't have any decent rational discussion here anyway because of all the immature brand worshipers.

[No_Limit]

Who cares. It is all about the games. When I play a game like the original God of War on PS2 and Ninja Gaiden on Xbox, not once did I think about "hmmm, I wonder how God of War would have looked on the more powerful Xbox?"

Spec bragging is for lame, fake core gamers. It is all about the games, not spec.

[Mr_Danski]

lol be quiet plz.

You cant talk power without FACTS, and we have facts.

no lies, no Bull shit, FACTS, people. Facts.

Facts don't lie.

Have i said Facts enough? Yes, i think so.

FACTS.

[PS4OUR]

Wait, i'm confused. Just a few months ago specs didnt matter to Microsoft. Now why does it all of a sudden seem that they can't talk about nothing but specs and power differences??

[GodGinrai]

They are getting hit with this constantly...should they not defend their product?

EDIT: lol at the disagree with no response again! I guess common sense dont belong on N4G...SMH..

[5h4h4b]

Bro they have already said they aren't targeting high end graphics. Why are they so concerned about the talk of which system is graphically more capable now? If ps4 is more powerful, that shouldn't concern them because they never targeted superior graphics to begin with.
If anyone is losing sense, it's M$ that has gone insane, contradicting with themselves.

[GodGinrai]

"Bro they have already said they aren't targeting high end graphics. Why are they so concerned about the talk of which system is graphically more capable now?"

Because sites like this are making a big deal of it. Its only natural that they respond to their potential customers. Maybe I dont have the qualms with it that you guys have because I am looking at this in a far more detached way.

If made a product that I was going to sell to people, I would be reasuring my customers that they are not going to regret their purchase. The PS4 specs dont concerm them..but people perceptions of the PS4 in relation to the X1(their product) is entirely their business.
So they are right to respond to this type of stuff in that sense. If they stayed quiet that would only suggest a lack of confidence in their product, and how much worse would that look?

Its common sense man!

[Mrgolden79]

They have every right to defend themselves but their responses are lies and contradict itself. Albert Penello spewed a bunch of BS and then admitted he didn't know what he was talking about. Now, this guy from Forza goes out and say people who don't know the tech shouldn't talk. Well seems MS should take their own advice! This sums up MS in a nutshell, a company with no leadership, confusing and contradictory PR, nobody there seems to know what they're doing. So there, I disagreed and left a response, feel free to express your response.

[JeffGUNZ]

@ Mrgolden

Really, MS doesn't know what they are doing? Who brought you Halo this generation? Who brought you Gears of War, Forza, Alan Wake?? This article simply states that people who don't know how the entire picture works, to not pretend they do. Never once did he say the PS4 is weaker or the Xbox One is stronger. People on this site look at the number and think well sony has a bigger number here so they are 50% stronger. It's BS. You have to know how all the working parts come together as one.

I find it funny how all the armchair developers on this site laugh at the cloud yet all the actual developers who WORK with it and know millions more then anyone here can't stop talking about it and how much it helps them with their development. Do you people really think others here will take your word over a REAL developer???

[PS4OUR]

If games and experiences is what matters most to them then they should focus on sending out that message to the consumer. MS has done anything but that and has instead focused PR on a specs war that is debateable at best. Its a competition and MS knowing that Sony has raw power will do anything to paint a negative picture on that front. Like i said its a business and competitors will do what is necessary to get ahead or be percieved as the better product.

[alb1899]

What he says in other words is: you fans don't know what your talking about, you know nothing so you are losing your time because you don't have all the information needed to compare this consoles.

And I'm with him........wait.......is just about 60+days!

[pennywhyz]

I cant believe my forza CSR steering wheel don't work with this game.PS4 for me.They don't abandon there products

[Kingnichendrix]

So a company that doesn't even make their game on the other console saying you can't talk power if you are uninformed?

[Brix90]

Why is every X1 article about the PS4, I mean we get it your saying both consoles are the same but I don't need to here it over and over. I'm all for good news but don't mention your competition in almost every time it's free advertising too lol. Before anyone say " Well there's a lot of PS4 articles saying it more powerful than Xbox" yes but that just websites and a couple of devs that make multiplatform games not exclusives like this dev, thats like Naughty Dog commennting on X1 specs how would they know. Sony hasn't needed to come out an say "We're better than Xbox" the only thing Cerny said it was "The most powerful gaming console" no mention of X1. MS need to stop commenting on specs when a lot of Ps4's specs haven't been confirmed by Sony.

[cyberninja]

Damage control in full swing.

[Jamaicangmr]

So i gotta have God like information to be able to conclude based on specs and hardware that the PS4 is more powerful.

I can't just be an (Regular) informed consumer with a good understanding of pc specs and workings? Hell not even the devs that are working on them both and have stated the PS4 to be the better of the 2 are "Super" informed enough to make such statements?

If that's the case maybe you should have told that to the Albert guy before he started making the X1 look bad with his well publicized bs comments.

"Because it's kind of like the difference honestly between, 'Which is faster, a 500 horsepower Mustang or a 400 horsepower BMW M3?' It's not an easy question."

So they are slowly conceding that the X1 is less powerful and are now on a new campaign to make the X1 seem like a more balanced system.

The simple fact that the PS4 has a unified 8GB DDR5 pool of memory refutes that claim. Just listen to Mr. Cerny explain how he has reduced to bottlenecks in the architecture and you will see that while the X1 will be just as easy to develop for as the X360 the PS4 will be alil easier.

Focus on what makes the X1 unique. MS was making such a hugh deal about kinect and how it will be the game changer. Go back to that as until we use it we can't refute those with much success.

Sorry for the long post guys.

[LAWSON72]

I am no longer a fan of turn 10 because forza 5 should have weather(last time I checked it doesn't so please let me know if it was added). I remember before 4 came out they talked about how they would have added weather if it did not bring the game under 60 fps. Now what is your excuse if this Xbone is so powerful compared to the 360. Maybe this is ms but they also make so many DLCs that are excluded from the season pass I bought at launch for a total of $90. And if I want the rest of the dlc I am looking at paying at $40-50 which is ridiculous

[Red]

I agree, I've bought too many season passes for Forza and Forza Horizon, MK, DC and a few others only to have way more content released outside of the season pass. Pisses me off.

[LAWSON72]

Same with Borderlands 2 sadly devs and their publishers just love ripping us off. After Halo 4s underwhelming season pass I am done with all season passes except probably BF4 premium

[IcicleTrepan]

I just wish people that don't have electronics engineering degrees and complete knowledge of either of the platform's hardware would STFU about it. You really don't know what you're talking about and are acting as armchair engineers. Meanwhile most of you don't even know how to build a PC.

[JeffGUNZ]

Exactly, they all feed off eachothers BS is laughable. If people on this site could deliver a game like Forza, I'd give them the light of day. Until then, they are just pulling sh*t from between their cheeks.

[ShwankyShpanky]

This is what's known as an "argument from authority" fallacy.

I don't need to be a chemical engineer to know that water is wet.

All people are saying is that *based on the technical information available,* the PS4 is more powerful.

To quote a lying war criminal:
"There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know."

Whereas Rumsfeld's position (and MS's/Xbots' position) was(/is) based on "known unknowns" and/or "unknown unknowns," the PS4>Xbone position is based on the "known knowns." Based on the "known knowns," PS4 is more powerful, to such a degree that the "known unknowns" and "unknown unknowns" are unlikely allow the Xbone to surmount its disadvantage.

And the fact of the matter is that many GAF posters DO actually have electronics engineering/computer science degrees. Now what?

[Grandmaster-B]

LMAO

Im informed, TURD10 is in deception mode.

[Mikefizzled]

Glad to see I'm not the only bored of drones reciting numbers they don't understand.

[ballsohard2013]

As a gamer getting both consoles... and have always bout every console made except the wii u... i never really understood the fanboy-ism. Its kinda hilarious. With the next gen..expect each system to have its stregths. I want both so i can get those good exclusives. Ps4, i need deep down, killzone, uncharted,and praying for socom. X1 i need Titanfall, Forza, last among us and can only imagine what Halo will look like.

Cross Platform, we got division, bf4 (bf5 might be the innovation), and watchdog.. can you imagine what our future sequels will look like... Red Dead Redemption, NBA 2k15, NFL 2k???, Splinter Cell, Grand Theft... oh man too many possibilities.

Fanboys on both sides need to chill out and hope everyone does good. No competition means weak ass games will be made... look at EA and the Madden Series. Please bring nfl 2k back....pleasssssseeeeeeee

[xDHAV0K24x]

I applaud Sony. Personally not my cup of tea. Why is it wrong for msft to exist? THAT annoys me from the Sony fanbase

[Javinator]

PS4 is nothing but a PS3.5

Or like others call it, the "Sony Ouya",
only indie games, the home screen is boring, horrendous online structure. Not Next-Gen at all.

I want a "Next Gen "Experience", sticking with the king: Xbox

PS- NO DEDICATED SERVERS for PS4!
Enjoy the lag Sony fanboys Lol!!

[Nekroo91]

you craked me up with your ignorance, of course ps4 as dedicated servers, and most of them are provided by the game publishers not the sony or ms.

and actually ps4 as more AAA games in development, the home screen looks great compared to the win 8 on the xbox.

and yes it delivers you better next gen graphics than the x1

now go cry and hide in the closet

[JeffGUNZ]

@ Nekroo91

Can you lend me your crystal ball? It's funny, most sites who have had hands on with both OS think MS looks and feels smoother. PS has more games in "development", oh boy, haven't heard that before. Lets be honest, both systems are going to be neck and neck and will just come down to user preference.

[Nekroo91]

@JeffGUNZ i dont need a crystal ball, juts youtube..havent you seen the video from leaked x1 working? pray for them to fix that because it was the worst looking OS i ever seen.

[No_Pantaloons]

Feeling inadequate? ----> attack your consumers!

Yea that totally makes me wanna buy their game now.

[ElementX]

Feeling inadequate? ---> attack your competition!

Yea that totally makes me wanna buy Sony's console now.

(I have it preordered, just showing that your argument can go both ways)

[turgore]

PS4 or Xbox One.
A PC beats both of them when it comes to power.
In a couple of years PC gamers will game at 4k.

[KontryBoy706]

^^THIS. some of use are already gaming at 1440p or with 4 screens at once.

[KontryBoy706]

dag man the Xbox One has more damage control by the freaking hour!

[FlyShootRaceSims]

Try telling that to the countless N4G computer programmers and engineers. With their combined knowledge, they could've sent a man to the core of the sun and came back alive and cool to the touch.

[N4GJD]

Microsoft is sure on the defensive these days, and they just had to mention the unfounded cloud in that article. Just keep digging yourself a larger hole, Microsoft!

[xDHAV0K24x]

Wouldnt u defend urself?

[GraveLord]

PS4 is more powerful That's the end of it.

Get your pathetic PR under control Microsoft. You're coming off as desperate now.

[Izzy408]

X1 is more powerful; that's the end of it.

Get your pathetic, asenine fanboys under control, Sony. They're making you look foolish.

[xDHAV0K24x]

Run GTA 3 on a ps2 and then on xbox. HUGE difference

[GraveLord]

Yup.

This time the PS4 is the Xbox, and the Xbone is the PS2.

[jaren92]

Yeah the ps4 will be more powerful but all of you are making it like its gonna be ps4 vs the Nintendo 64..... the graphics will look better and be noticeable but It will not be a dramatic game changing difference like everyone is making it out to be. they both will run smooth graphics and be great systems

[Izzy408]

"Forza dev: You can't talk power unless you're informed"

So true. The thing is, the PS fanboys like to claim the PS4 is more powerful when they don't even know how both consoles really work. All they do is copy and paste Gddr5 specs and TFlop numbers without even knowing what they really mean. If it's true that the PS4 is more powerful.. I sure haven't seen any proof.

[horndog]

When its all said and done forza still spanks the crap out if gt and driveclub. That's "PoWAAHHH!!".

[MotherLight]

No offense Turn 10 but how about you talk about power when you can actually put more features in your racing game? Forza 5 is lacking more than any next generation racing game coming.

I think that says a lot but sure, you guys know all about power with your static backgrounds, terrible lighting, no night races or weather effects. Sounds like you guys are really using that power.