Microsoft Xbox One Could Possibly Feature a Powerful Discrete GPU Core Stacked Inside the APU

According to the information, the APU fused on the Xbox One is using an W2W (wafer 2 wafer) multi-module design that allows stacking of one chip on another. The first layer wafer is dedicated to the 28nm HPM Main SOC which was revealed during Hot Chip 2013 with 8 Jaguar cores and a modified Radeon HD 6670 GPU with DX11.1 and OpenGL 3.0 support. The layer beneath it is dedicated to the stacked discrete GPU and the final wafer layer is dedicated to the 32 MB of ESRAM.

[yewles1]

lol, right after the Killer Instinct 720p shocker. "Convenient" damage control overload.

CANCEL THE GENERATION!!!

[theWB27]

Why is that a shocker? A true shocker would be if Turn10 came out and said Forza 5 would be 720p and not 1080p native 60fps like they've been touting.

[memots]

To be honest i couldn't care less if Forza is 720p

720p vs 1080p is a weak argument, All gets upscale anyway and looks great.

[tigertom53]

that is wrong Forza Motorsport 5 will run at 60 frames per second with a native resolution of 1080p, according to a spokesperson for Turn 10 Studios.
http://www.computerandvideo...

[modesign]

Gt6 still looks better

[InTheZoneAC]

still can't take a "sim" seriously when you have all the lap records being held by AWD conversions....yeah how realistic is that?

[Amazingmrbrock]

@InTheZoneAC its not a simulation. Its almost a simulation. The tracks are smoothed out for easier driving and the cars are all made to handle slightly better than reality.

[P0werVR]

Once again there is NO dGPU!

If so, wait for Microsoft or more credible journalism. Not this sad excuse!

[SilentNegotiator]

"Why is that a shocker?"

Because it's the 8th generation. The least impressive form of 2.5D games (small environment fighters) should be 1080p by now.

@tigertom

Wow, you seriously don't understand what an "if" situation is, do you?

[malokevi]

http://misterxmedia.livejou...

Tech junkies are basically convinced that there is a dGPU that is part of MS' NDA with AMD, that we will hear about on the 29th... and their logic seems a lot more credible than what passes for "logic" around here.

Check out the comments on that page.

[indysurfn]

All don't get upscaled if it is NATIVE 1080p Which is when there is better quality. 540p does, 720p does but 1080p does not. Kinda like have digital zoom in a camera instead of optical zoom. One looks worse than the other. If the output is 1080p you would not need to scale to 1080p again that would not make sense.

[glennco]

Launch titles are always somewhat less than stellar. I am so sick of 12yo PS fanboys trolling every single xbox article like crazy religious people.

[StoutBEER]

Cool

[EXVirtual]

Whoa, wait. KI runs at 720p 60 fps? I missed that!

[GiantEnemyCrab]

I got hands on at PAX and WOW was that game gorgeous and played like a dream! I'm a big fan of the original KI and I have to say the developers went above and beyond with this re-make.

[Bolts]

Are you shitting me? A fighting game can't break 1080p? Seriously, back to the drawing board Microfail!

[whoyouwit04]

And how many games on PS4 is 1080p? fewr then xbox one last I checked.

[Sonysexual]

All games on the PS4 are 1080p with the exception of BF4.

For the Xbox ONE, DR3, KI, and BF4 aren't 1080p. I also expect a downgrade for Forza.

[Foxgod]

Give me break, not a single game on the ps4 is 1080p + 60 fps.

[kB0]

@foxgod

No mention of frame rates in either convo, stop jumping the gun and read fool.

[Jockamo]

Wait so no one answered the question. Which PS4 games are 1080p w/ 60fps?

[BABYLEG]

Aint no one gon answer it?

I wanna know too. And post links

[grimmweisse]

Resogun, 60fps and 1080p.

[Kumatan]

So grimm provides a game that is 60fps and 1080p, and then gets a disagree stating a fact. Even with evidence people will still deny facts. Sad really...

If you disagree, back it up with a counter argument at least.

[glennco]

Launch title... idiot

[BuLLDoG909]

The guy who made up this false info, has been trolling for months on his blog with, quite frankly delusional blog posts only fit for comedic reasons.

You should actually go to the guys blog and read some of the nonsense he writes, if you can read it that is, the guy cant even spell correctly.

[ProjectVulcan]

Its aaaaallllllllll fake.

I actually laughed out loud when by some extreme fudging and no idea of scale he came up with a die size of 525mm squared for Xbone's main processor.

525mm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats nearly the size of a Geforce Titan die (550mm squared), with over 7 billion transistors. We already know that Xbone only has 5 billion. A whole bunch of that is just eSRAM.

Not to mention the fact there is an extremely limited number of Titans (10 thousand) because they are so difficult and expensive to make.

The Geforce GTX780 shares the same die but is a crippled Titan, poorer areas of the chip disabled to improve the yields and make more chips available to retail and yet even thats still a $650 card such is the huge expense of creating such a massive die.

Long story short, its impossible Microsoft would use such a ginormous die for their console, too expensive, to difficult to manufacture.

If they did they would swallow a fortune in losses on every machine sold and it would be a damn sight faster than 1.3 teraflops....

[mkis007]

Has any of his claims actually come true?

[popup]

If only it were true. All MS would have needed to do was say that they had the most powerful hardware at the conference and everyone would be buying that.

Sony are saying that they have the worlds most powerful console and MS are not. MS instead tried to sell us transistor counts and clouds instead of comparative specs and that says more than the total nut job that is 'misterxmedia' and his imaginary insider friend ever has. But so what!

Why do people have to be so laughably brand loyal? Who cares what is the fastest? Turn off the internet and go play some games.

[ChrisW]

In lamens terms, "Baaa, baaa, bah bah, baaaaaaa, baaaah PS4 FTW!!!"

[SEAN1617]

Guys if this was real, why in GODS GOOD NAME WOULD MICROSOFT NOT JUST STATE SO? Because then XBOXONE WOULD BE MORE POWERFUL. NDA???!!! This would not prevent them from making that statement. This is 100% bogus.

[coopman300]

Nda would mean ms is legally bound to not say anything until it is up so yea unless they want a huge lawsuit they wouldnt say anything.

[moparful99]

@coop Microsoft has more than enough leverage to negotiate a contract that wouldn't gag them so close to the launch.. Not being able to reveal actual specs is hurting their reputation and public perception, tech as good as these rumors indicate wouldn't be covered up so aggressively.. We all know how much Microsoft loves to brag when they have an advantage, this whole scenario smells of damage control... Only reason anyone is buying that excuse is because of how neatly it cleans up their PR disaster up to this point.

[rainslacker]

At this point in time there is no more reason to hide it. There is really no time left for the competition to react. It would be a big boost to consumer perception, instead of just talking about "value proposition". I would wager that a majority of the early adopters already know what system they're going to buy, and the ones that come along later probably won't really care about specs that much.

Specs in real world terms don't mean much in most cases as developers are used to working with different setups, but there are many who like more powerful specs, and whether true or not, Sony is generally thought to have the more powerful system, and it can be backed up with analytical data.

If MS wanted people to get off their backs with the cost of the system, they could just say they have a more powerful one(and show why it's more powerful), instead of hyping things up with fancy PR Specs and power of the cloud.

@coop

There would be no reason for MS to have any kind of an NDA with a partner company for a chip that they have rights to. If this article's premise is true, MS would be well within their right to make it public. There is no reason for MS to put an NDA on itself.

[pixelsword]

Listen,

If Microsoft had any of this goin' on, they'd be singing it from the mountain top, not slyly leaving clues when it's rep is in the dumpster.

[Majin-vegeta]

Wasnt this misterx Guy already proven to be fake with no reliable sources?

[Jeff257]

If not his latest post certainly points to be nothing but fake. Less than a day after an interview that pretty much says Illumiroom won't go beyond a lab concept because it is too expensive.

http://www.ausgamers.com/ne...

http://misterxmedia.livejou...

His "insider" is claiming that it will be produced with Samsung's help to make it affordable for consumers.

Another aspect that I find disturbing is that somehow the Fortazela Glasses, (he misspelled Fortazela by the way), concept Microsoft patented is now supposed to be able to be paired with Kinect 2 and give gamers almost the same experience as the Oculus Rift. There is absolutely no way some thin glasses along with Kinect can do what Rift can do. He actually made a lot of grammar and spelling mistakes in the latest post including in his headline. Who spells reality as really?

I for one can't take anything he says seriously and I find it very sad that some people really seem to believe the deceptions he is selling.

[meatysausage]

I think he is russian or something so that explains bad writting.

[Jeff257]

Yeah that would explain it. Doesn't explain the delusional mind though.

[SuicideKing]

In Russia keyboards push your buttons.

[pyramidshead]

The misterx and his conspiracy micro-zealot cronies have not been right on one single theory to date apparently. So it's justifiable to assume that this is also a lot of BS. Lots of people have come to the conclusion that they're all the same person, even the insider >_<. And most of the accounts that comment on the site are him too. Wouldn't be surprised. :P

[Qrphe]

Is there a need to have THREE "Fake" reports to the same submission? It's a recurring issues with the vast majority of articles as well.

[Qrphe]

In addition, is there a way to control the blatant fanboyism in the Reports tab? It's sad to see moderation has been lost even in the Reports tab.

[Avernus]

There's moderation here? :O

[edgeofsins]

I feel like misterx is going to retrieve the HHG treatment.

[NarooN]

I actually kinda miss seeing his ALLCAPS sensationalist titles, and then reading the comments where 97% of them were bashing him, lol. It was just funny.

[No_Limit]

I think this rumor is false myself as it is already too late into development to announce any hidden secret. The only other console that actually tried to pull something off of this caliber is Sega with the Sega Saturn. Many may have have known but Sega added a 3D Hitachi chipset late in the development due to trying to combat the PS1's 3D capability. Sorry to say that that didn't end well for Sega.

But just for fun factor if nothing more, I secretly hope this rumor is true simply to watch all the meltdowns and suicide watch over at Neogaf. LOL

[thereapersson]

I always enjoy your neutral comments. Anyway, part of me thinks this might have some substance due to MS's secrecy regarding the physical hardware, part of me thinks this whole thing is ridiculous and is the work of diehard fans grasping at straws because they can't even fathom let alone stomach the fact that a Sony console will be the dominant force this generation.

*shrug*

Guess 2.5 months is too long for some people...

[slimeybrainboy]

Yeah it doesnt make sense. Why would you allow Sony to go around saying that they have the most powerful console ever built if they don't. There's is no way Sony could make changes this late.

Unless they want to wait for NDA's to expire, because if MS run around talking about stuff in the NDA the third parties might feel it's okay to talkabout other stuff in the NDA.

[tordavis]

Because if it were true, they would make Sony look stupid.

[tokugawa]

hmmm http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

see what albert whatever his name is from microsoft said on neogaf

[joefrost00]

You know the thing that I find so funny is that
Not wheather its true or not or is there actually anything that MS is hiding
Its this without a doubt trust in sony
Sony says its has the most powerful console 90times a day no one says anything but also remember the ps3 suppose to hqve 6 usb ports dual screen gaming, the movies they showed in 2005 and I haven't seen the ps4 let alone the ps3 do the version of motorstorm I saw back in 2005
Not trying to bash sony its just saying we got the most powerful console what else are they going to say lol
Add all this with the fact that they dont even know all the cards the competition is holding I mean even the stuff we do know we have know idea how its going to work (the 15 side processors and 8gb flash ram)
Im just saying in all honesty sony has been gulity before of overhyping and under delivering

[CoLD FiRE]

I agree. I don't care that the Xbox One is less powerful than the PS4 but I would love to see the reaction if it turned it out to be the most powerful console.

[rainslacker]

You are correct about the Saturn. However I do believe that is a different scenario. Saturn was built to be a 2D machine, but they knew they couldn't compete against Sony's 3D machine.

Today, the X1 and PS4 are both very capable machines, that for the most part perform the same functions. They even use very similar parts. There is just a power difference between them, and they go about handling things in a different way. Both trains of thought on design have their pros and cons. It's just the way it is with console hardware.

With 2 months left to release, and the fact that both systems are currently in production, there isn't much that Sony could do to respond.

I personally wouldn't mind if the rumor were true, just because it means it'd be a more powerful console for the long haul.:)

[DEEBO]

watch this bullshit gets to 500 degrees.

[Ripsta7th]

I have seen worst w more heat

[Angeljuice]

Let the Xbots enjoy their moment of hope, they don't come around too often.
Does anybody know what Greenpowerz new account is? I'm sure he'll be the expert we need to shed light on this. /S

[DEEBO]

i know but why hasn't MS said anything about their hardware? sony say's the ps4 is the console with the better specs all the time.if MS had this secret chip they would have said it buy now.with the way sony is killing them in the preorders this would help them if it was true.

[theWB27]

I'm not saying this is true...but pretty much everyone that has gone over the X1 specs say there is something missing from the Hotchips presentation.
http://semiaccurate.com/201...
"The GPU block is where things start to get really interesting to the point where calling it only GPU is almost a misnomer. Graphics are by far the majority of the transistors here but there are at least seven other blocks in that area. The exact count is a bit nebulous though, Microsoft claims “15 special purpose co-processors” not counting the CPUs and GPUs, eight of which are audio. That would leave seven for the rest of the system and those should end up in the GPU block. SemiAccurate knows that there are several important sub-systems in the XBO that are not on the diagrams or in the talk but we are not sure if the 15 count includes them or not."

Things from the diagram still not being explained.
http://www.extremetech.com/...

Then the misterxmedia guy (his blog is hilariously badly written) says there's a NDA with AMD and Micro that lifts on the 29th of September.

So...what's the reason why Micro hasn't fully told everything in the box? IDK...don't play for specs but I'm weerily waiting on the 29th to see if anything happens.

[Pain_Killer]

AMD is going to officially announce their Volcanic Islands family of graphic cards during the last week of September to the press in Hawaii.

http://wccftech.com/amd-con...

But there's something that needs to be noted, not all GPUs in the Volcanic Islands family are based off the new Hawaii architecture, some reuse the current 7000 series tech with minor modifications.

[Convas]

So in essence, September 29th could end up being a glorious or horrendous day, depending on who's flag your sailing?

Either way, it's going to make for some mighty good fireworks. Quite a few of the tech breakdowns by GAF members did mention that there was something amiss, something missing from the puzzle.

I'm going to keep my expectations reserved. This could be very interesting.

[NoLongerHereCBA]

If you are in for the games it will never be negative for the PS4. The machine is already capable of beautiful games like Killzone, so I don't see why it would be terrible for them :) Unless you are actually a fanboy and want the console itself to beat others.

I am going for an Xbox one and I really hope for this to be true, but I am also keeping my expectations very low, so I won't be disappointed if this is not the case/if it turns out to be something trivial :)

If this turns out to be true, then I am wondering why studio's are struggling with framerate. Don't they have this so called second GPU yet in their devkits or is it not yet 'enabled'?

[Machiavellian]

If you are in it for the games then either console will deliver. If this rumor ends up being true, the fallout will be against the fanboys which is what you see a lot on these forums

[rainslacker]

@Vaizard

Haven't seen any reports of struggling frame rates, however if they do exist, then it's possible that the developers don't have access to that hardware yet, or at least not all of it. It's not uncommon at all for console makers to hold back part of their machine to developers early on.

It's also possible the discrete GPU isn't as powerful as this article assumes.

Lots of possibilities really, but again, I haven't seen devs complain about frame rate.

[DJMarty]

Its bull, Most of the extra crap is for the pay boxes Cable box TV Crap. PIP anyone.

[Cueil]

no... that would just need software support for USB based cable cards

[Nocando]

Comments like yours are now simply a bore to read, an anti Xbox echo chamber. At least be a little more original.

[windblowsagain]

I Figured it out.

There is a special handle. If pulled chocolate come out.

[Animal Mutha 76]

Lol :)

[Athonline]

Just find AMD's APUs architecture overview and then the HSA standards...

Both consoles under HSA got their GPUs inside the APUs. That is the purpose of the APU in the first place...

And before someone refers to some articles saying XBOne doesn't have HSA/hUMA:
HSA IS part of the Jaguar APU architecture and in extended, an evolution of the more traditional X86-64 architecture the APUs are based on.
None of the two consoles got hUMA, as hUMA is a PC "implementation" of partially HSA standards, using AMD hardware.

[joeorc]

@Athonline

"And before someone refers to some articles saying XBOne doesn't have HSA/hUMA:
HSA IS part of the Jaguar APU architecture and in extended, an evolution of the more traditional X86-64 architecture the APUs are based on.
None of the two consoles got hUMA, as hUMA is a PC "implementation" of partially HSA standards, using AMD hardware."

the Xboxone has something "like hUMA" it is not hUMA though.

where as the PS4's does indeed have hUMA!

PlayStation 4 includes hUMA technology
27 Aug 2013

http://www.vgleaks.com/play...

[Athonline]

hUMA is just an implementation of HSA without interfering with the rest of von newman architecture.

A better understanding of hUMA: http://www.notebookreview.c...

Now HSA IS a standard, where a uniform memory pool is implemented for both the CPU AND GPU. HSA main idea is to allow the GPU to get CPU privileges, as so far the GPU couldn't access the main system's memory.

HSA is the whole idea behind APUs, read their technical specifications and search for the HSA standards. The architecture specifications are available here: http://hsafoundation.com/st...

hUMA is just allowing the GPU in a Von Newman architecture, as in a traditional Von Newman the GPU isn't part of the same die as the CPU, to access the system memory and retrieve data from it directly in simple words.

In case you didn't notice, most "technical" sites copy one from another as their journalists are acting like parrots, instead of doing original research.

I can bet my Computer Science bachelor if you want; HSA is in both consoles, like it or not. hUMA is not, as it isn't needed -HSA covers hUMA feature list in an even greater depth and efficiency.

[Call_Of_Doggy]

I have to lol at this because, didnt MS say "specs dont matter?"
Didnt they say "even though PS4 has better specs on paper, cloud makes X1 better?" lol.

That guy you referenced, he is a known internet mad man fanboy for MS.
The last year he has stated:

-Not 8 Jaguar Cores(X86-64) but 8 IBM POWER 7 cores.
-It will be having 12 or 16GB of Ram.
-It will have 10TFlops of power.
-It will have backwards compatibility, this is why MS is using 8IBM POWER PC cores.
-It will be like two super computers in one outperforming Nasa computers.
-It WONT have a power brick.

Im on Semi-Accurate, he is like excommunicated from there for being a madman. So, why would anyone take him seriously? He is like a fanboy extremist.

Xbone so powerful... MS doesnt market it as such. According to him, its 10TFlops and struggles to lock 30fps in Dead Rising 3?
Please people. Stop being naive.
Xbone=1.2Tflops. 1 GPU. HD7790,8JAG [email protected]
PS4= 1.84TFlops. 1GPU. HD7870,8 JAG [email protected].

Stop thinking X1 is powered by wizard jizz.
Its not.
Woof!

[tokugawa]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

this was the guys reason for saying it posted on neogaf

[Axonometri]

Don't you think this would get way too hot??? Cooling something like this in a box like the Xbox One would be one hell of a feat.

[theWB27]

Have you seen the fan? The console is basically all vent.

[ZoyosJD]

You're exactly right. There was a custom university developed liquid cooling solution developed for stacked chips of this comparable wattage.

The result of stacking two chips of that size and only air cooling them would result in an approximate five fold increase of heat retention.

[SITH]

Heat Retention or dissipation? I think you meant dissipation. Retention of heat in a console would be catastrophic.

[jerethdagryphon]

so its a apu then a 2 gig gpu with 2000 stream cores bolted on top.

all on a 22nm die....pulling less then 200 watts of power..

no simply no.

while its possible to stack silicon like that your looking at a few serious drawbacks

first cost
a low end apu cost me 55£ to buy
and an equivlent gpu to the one listed is 250£

the power draw for this chip would be close to 350 watt even with low clock speeds
its a 800mhz gpu a 6450 has that speed and, 160 cores...

the heatsink isnt that big its compreble in size to a dvd drive which looks like 5.25x5.25 inches so 29ish sqaure inches
double it because it is 2 inches high so 60 cubich inches of cooling,
that might be enough to radiate heat away but that single fan isnt likly to move much air

the apu witch is 8 jaguar cpu gores plus a bolted on hd77xx gpu, will generate enough heat.

all the customization they've done is likely the move engines which are more or less a advanced memory controller for specific tasks

and security.

the apu is the cpu and gpu , there is no seperate other cpu unlike some have said.

the onlything more unlikly then an additional full chip in there is if it used asynchronous chips

https://docs.google.com/pre...

until theres hard evidence to support a hidden chip take it with a bucket of salt

[yewles1]

"Radeon HD 6670 GPU"

BZZZT!!! Modified HD 7xxx series GPU with 12 compute units (768 stream processors, dual instruction) at 853MHz, 1.310TFLOP/s.

[Cueil]

what is strange is that they still have officially released the CPU clock speed (though I think one site took a stab at it using that presentation at 1.9ghz.)

[NarooN]

Any increase to the clockspeed would be very miniscule and only produce tangible performance gains at best.

People need to understand that the Jaguar architecture was never meant to clock high, unlike AMD's Vishera CPU's for example. Therefore, people need to stop expecting MS to pull out a mythical bunny from their hat and announce that they clocked the CPU up to 3.9 GHz or something.

Besides, most games on the PS4 and X1 will be heavily multi-threaded since both consoles have low-powered octocores in them. 1.6 GHz x8 will be enough for the games we will see on these systems.

[Athonline]

I wonder how much of what you just said, mean something to you other than numbers...

[yewles1]

Numbers matter a lot, especially if pulling a BS claim as an HD 6670 would indicate an AMD generation behind what's actually confirmed in PS4/XB1, and warrant that much less of a $500 price tag justification.

[ABeastNamedTariq]

N4G would explode, lol. Question: how expensive would it be to integrate two GPUs? I mean generally speaking, of course. It sounds expensive. Would it mean taking a big loss?

[grassyknoll]

They would mean they would be making a loss & the machine would be difficult to develop for. These stupid rumours need to stop.

[CoLD FiRE]

It would be more expensive but it wouldn't be difficult to develop for.

[joeorc]

@ABeastNamedTariq

"Question: how expensive would it be to integrate two GPUs? I mean generally speaking, of course. It sounds expensive. Would it mean taking a big loss?"

"Would it mean taking a big loss?"

yupper's unless you have spent and invested in such production process for your companies silicon production, yes its very expensive, and than it nets you lower cost's much, much later but upfront you are spending lots of money upfront to net greater cost reduction's later.

example:

Its designed-in longevity is largely a matter of economics. The Cell Broadband Engine that powered the PS3 cost $400m to develop; the main SoC for the incoming console is likely to be a 3D stack incorporating thru-silicon-via technology and could be the first $1bn hardware design project.

http://mandetech.com/2012/0...

So the R&D cost's just for the PS4 soc was 1 Billion

and the simple fact Microsoft does not produce silicon CPU/GPU or Cmos sen's for other companies they have to shop for companies that do.

Example: Sony makes Camera sen's that go into the iPhone, Galaxy line of smartphone's. Microsoft makes no such physical hardware!

So being realistic, does it sound to you like Microsoft is employing such production silicon that would net tham a loss of over $250.00 to $300.00/per unit upfront? for later cost reductions many years down the road?

that's why i know this is pretty much a bull crap rumor.

Unless you produce chips for other companies, employing such production techniques is very expensive upfront unless you spent many years investment to do such production, and even than its going to require new tooling, and take 2 to 3 years after production to get cost benefits. but that is years of investment prior to employing such tooling.

[SITH]

Looks at GTX 690. Not hard at all apparently. And MS spends 9 billion in research alone, they are not afraid of a loss.

http://gizmodo.com/5486798/...

[jerethdagryphon]

the sega saturn had 3 gpus 2 d 3d and a 3rd chip all needing coding concurently.
integrating them isnt a problem its just as the lithographic process gets more complex cost skyrockets

if your willing to pay for it amd could build a cpu with 10 gpus added to it but that soc would probobly cost per chip 2x what it would take to build
normaly all youd save is space

because the ram is external to the cip itsc a bottleneck

remember ps3s cpu clocked 3.2 ghz its xdr ram also clocked 3.2 its gpu however clocked 700sih i think and bottlenecked everything

no matter how fast a chip its limited by the slowest parts

[AceBlazer13]

Tupac could possibly walk the earth again.Highly unlikely(very very every unlikely) but possible.

[LucasEVille]

Reason for not putting out the release date, one last broadside from MS?

[Cueil]

The tech is real and going to be used in AMD's new chips... the question is Microsoft purposely not allowing any developers access to this due to AMD's NDAs? While I find this questionable the amusement I would get if it was true would be worth every single disagree that I get.

[LucasEVille]

I sensed a great disturbance in the force, like a million Sony fanboys cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

[MasterCornholio]

Reminds me of the Xbox One reveal.

And the price reveal at E3.

Motorola RAZR i

[tokugawa]

lol lucasEVille. i also sensed the disturbance, to me it was like a million sony fanboys assploded

anyway, i dont think a second gpu. just a move engine with a drop of mark cerny jizz in it.. the secret sauce!!

[thereapersson]

Well the only benefit to that theory is that launch games are always rough compared to games later in a system's life cycle. We are at a point where even early-cycle games look good, so if there is any hidden tech waiting to be unleashed, at least Microsoft can fudge a bit by waiting. Imagine the news shocker if this rumor were to turn out as factual...

*Mr. Burns Excellent pose*

[acdata]

DICE already used dual GPU configuration to show xboxone power .

[Animal Mutha 76]

I've seen quite a lot of noise about this possibly being a dGPU stacked wafer. Sounds too good to be true and whilst I would love it to be correct ( can you imagine the lolz?), I will call this as unlikely for now.

If this does turn out to be true it will be the biggest bluff and misdirection by MS in the history of gaming and the Internet will explode, N4Sony will melt and Maria will have to change her name.

Of all the cock a hoop rumours I've read in the last few months this one is the most incredible and unlikely but would be ultramegagigaton.

[memots]

like chicken and waffle stacks ??

Me love some Fried chicken,.

[MasterCornholio]

Seems more like a wish list to me than anything else.

Seriously if the Xbox One was so powerful with a dual GPU configuration don't you think Microsoft would use it to shut Sony up?

Has anyone forgotten Sonys comment? "Our console is the most powerful console ever made and the Xbox One is weakling in comparison."

Motorola RAZR i

[Ripsta7th]

Why are putting words in Sony's mouth? They never said it was a weakling in comparison because they know it isnt , it is behind though and also that would make Sony seem childish

[MasterCornholio]

"Mark Cerny, the lead system architect for the PlayStation 4 has pointed out what he believes to be an underappreciated aspect of Sony’s new console. That it is “the world’s most powerful games console.”"

http://www.geek.com/games/a...

And in comparison the XBOX One is weak according to Sony otherwise they wouldnt brag about it so much. They make it seem that their console is far ahead of the XBOX One in terms of processing capabilities and graphics when the truth is that the two consoles are closer than what most people think. But in the end that doesnt change the fact that theres a 500 gigaflop difference between the two systems with the Wii U on slightly above last gen systems (XBOX 360, PS3) +

P.S What amazes me is that some XBOX fans go the distance and invent false information on a dual GPU configuration that the XBOX One doesnt have. Like i said its merely them begging for the rumors to be true because they cant stand the fact that they are paying more for Kinect and a weaker console.

P.S.S The best thing they can do is just accept that they want to play XBOX One exclusives and buy the console for that because if they wanted a console for superior multiplats (based on what devs said) and Sony exclusives they would get a PS4 instead of an XBOX One.

[Angeljuice]

And the guy from AMD stated that the PS4 has the most powerful APU they have ever produced.

[pandehz]

If this turns out to be true it will be a BEAST. With 2000+ stream processors its at the higher end of the pc spectrum.
If its true Im defo getting one.

But again this might all be total BS. If it does turn out to be true woah this is gonna create major news.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Microsoft didn't invest 3-4 billion dollars into AMD R&D for nothing. They probably been working on this since 2009 . AMD has stated that they wanted to bridge the gap quickly between console and PC. Microsoft stated after the HotChips presentation that their was one large SoC that didn't get discuss but due to NDA agreement with AMD can't discuss it till after September 29th. If so the dgpu is based off AMD new GPUs Volcanic Island Hawaii.

[Kayant]

Where's the evidence of MS investing 3-4 billion dollars into AMD? Or is that also under NDA...

[FrigidDARKNESS]

You folks from the other side just makes me lol....always wanting evidence. Hey Google is your friend you can it to research the info. For you.

[quenomamen]

I heard there was this one MS rep @ E3 who was talking up abd down bout a second discreet GPU, people laughed and said hw was nuts. Well turns out he hasnt been seen since, nobody knows where he went, police are baffled, and now ol' Steve Ballmer retiring ? Seems mighty fishy to me.

[devwan]

@FrigidDARKNESS "You folks from the other side just makes me lol....always wanting evidence."

Pathetic humans wanting evidence, what is the world coming to?!

Rather than use facts, instead believe in Microsoft's secret sauce! Hell, not just the sauce, there's a whole stealth burger and camo fries hiding in there, too! BELIEVE!

[thereapersson]

@ Frigid

Yeah, who needs evidence these days? Let's convict people on hearsay and aggregated opinions / rumors! You'd be a great politician...

[Belking]

http://www.gamespot.com/new...

It's true. You guys are in denial...lol

[H0RSE]

You re all taking his "evidence" line out of context...

He isn't "loling" at the fact that you want confirmation that something is true, its at the fact that the evidence is available if you look for it, but instead of doing research and educating yourselves, you immediately deny anything that is contrary to your viewpoint, and jump to the "link or it didn't happen" defense, like a child being told santa doesn't exist....many of you are so dismissive of any sort of positive or even neutral news concerning MS/xbox that you come off as cynical and/or paranoid.

Some of you don't just want evidence - you want it served to you on a silver plate with the important parts highlighted, along with a source to confirm the source. It's your attitudes and the way many of you go about it, that was his point.

[Kayant]

We are always wanting evidence loool.... So how are we suppose to believe there is any substance to the rumour if there's no evidence of them investing into AMD. Also searching was the first thing I did.

[Clarence]

Hehehe. Keep dreaming

[biglittlesps]

this is stupid, if that is that much powerful then why can't it run 1080p 60FPS killer instinct and so far many developers and sony itself said PS4 is powerful and Microsoft took weak hardware for compensating Kinect.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Thats because devs are still under NDA and can't talk about x1 architecture and games after September 21. After that date the truth will be revealed.

[cfir]

So they're not allowed to talk about it, or use it either ? I can imagine the developer meeting. OK guys, we've got an additional GPU on the system, but we're not allowed to talk about it. So you're not allowed to use it until after September 21st OK. I thought NDA was a non disclosure agreement, not a non development agreement.

[M-M]

Come on Frigid it WON'T happen. Like someone said earlier, this is NOT something Microsoft would want to hide, and their console would be capable of doing a lot more than it is now if it were true. Xbox executives even com firmed that the Xbox One specs are pretty much finalized, and won't be changing since it's way too late for that. Even Microsoft said something along the lines of "It's not all about the console power and/or graphics", get over your self Frigid.

[DoesUs]

Good old Frigid, al;ways on hand when any of this rubbish appears. Wait till this, wait till that. Funny.

[Clarence]

So since you know so much and it's obvious that your working for them, how come you are allowed to talk about it before sept 21?

[n4rc]

Parts can be disabled or not included in a dev kit... Or full documentation isn't available and they are winging it for the moment..

People pretend to be experts and insiders all the time... There is some logic to it it being real... But also some things that point to it being fake..

NDAs are common place and explains a lot.. So let's just wait a few weeks and see what happens..

[creatchee]

@cfir

"So they're not allowed to talk about it, or use it either ?"

If this whole thing is true (and that is a big IF), then developers probably don't even know about it yet. They've only been able to use Xbox One dev kits, which wouldn't feature the enhanced tech because it doesn't "exist" yet.

If developers don't know about the tech, they can't really use it because they have no way of addressing it and allocating it in their coding.

However, we're still talking about an IF here. Should be interesting to see if it's true though.

[Sweep14]

@creatchee If devs don't know about the additional GPU and will discover it end of september, their games will not take it into account because they would NEVER be ready for X1 launch

[Eddie20101]

So the devs have to tell lies because there under NDA. That makes all the sense in the world.-S

[moparful99]

Who on Earth thinks that Microsoft wouldn't have enough legal leverage to negotiate an NDA that doesn't gag them so close to launch? Especially if they actually did invest all of the money the fanboys would have you believe they have into AMD..

[FlunkinMonkey]

As cool as it would be.. Never. Gonna. Happen.

Do you guys really think MS would be holding back this info with both consoles so close to release with MS having taken the beating they have so far, and there being no chance of competitors editing their hardware because they are so close to launch? seriously..

You guys need to get your head out the clouds (forgive the pun), many of you above are ppl i've seen ranting about the specs don't matter, and now you are getting raging hard ons in excitement..

[NarooN]

If this crap were real, MS would have been talking it up at E3. But of course, that never happened.

MS: "Oh!, we have this secret dGPU in our system and our theoretical bandwidth is OVAR 9000!!! But let's not mention this at all at E3 next week, let's allow Sony to completely make us look like absolute shit! That'll get us tons of pre-orders and support!"

[Call_Of_Doggy]

SOURCE*

MRCTEAM
MRXMEDIA
ELITEGAMER
Its 1.2TFlops.

#DealWitIt

Its getting pretty sad when games like Dead Rising 3 cant be locked to 30FPS and theres still people saying its more powerful than it is.

[memots]

a 360 game that can't do 30fps on the Xbox one makes you wonder indeed.

[Whitey2k]

Yeah if this was suppose to be true y aint killer instinct 1080p hell y aint battlefield 4 running 1080p if it has dual gpu. why are some third party publishers saying ps4 is looking better then the x1 counterpart.. hell y aint all x1 games 1080p

[cfir]

So now it has 32Mb ESRAM and 2GB of GDDR5 all on board the APU. You wouldn't have both. Unless Microsoft have gone back to the drawing board and we're now talking a November 2014 release, then I think this is highly unlikely.

[acdata]

let me correct you, no it has 48Mb ESRAM

[Fangrim]

Let me correct you.

The Xbox One SoC has 47MB on-die memory/cache. 32MB of those are the 32MB ESRAM.

The last 15MB are CPU L1/L2 caches, and some various caches for other parts of the chip.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/20...

[grassyknoll]

A machine of this spec would be in a case twice as big as the current Xbox One. It's gonna catch on fire or melt within a few hours of launch.

[corvusmd]

Adding 2 gb of GDDR5 would have to double the size of the XB1? Now that makes no sense

[grassyknoll]

The article says there's an extra GPU on the die, the cooling required would mean a case the size of a desktop PC & probably cost MS over 700 dollars to manufacture. It's not going to happen.

[Foxgod]

Well, the X1 is bigger then the ps4, so plenty of air flow.

[urwifeminder]

Already buying it don't care about power that's why my pc is beast if true great if false great.

[quenomamen]

Yea, I also heard its lower spec RAM was actually better because it has " lower latency "
First it was teh cloud making it 3x more powerful, then the RAM was better, then they raised the speed by an earth shattering 53MHz, now it turns out it has a second GPU nobody ever knew about, no MS reps, Devs, not Maj. BS Nelson, nobody. Yea, ok, sure ahuh. I beleive it.

[Foxgod]

to be fair, neither gddr5 and ddr3 are better.
They both do the job, in their own way, gddr5 is faster, and ddr3 has better timings.

[ooquis]

Well for a $500 console it better have!

[corvusmd]

Well as of right now I'll treat this like what it is...a rumor. There are some hints that it may be true, but what is certain, is that IF it is true, it's going to be a REALLY bad day(Gen) for Sony fanboys that staked their claim that PS4 was the superior machine. The systems are already great, but this would make it even that much better.

[Clarence]

M$ doesn't know how to make hardware better than their competitors. They have a track record of crappy hardware.

[joeorc]

@corvusmd

"Well as of right now I'll treat this like what it is...a rumor. There are some hints that it may be true, but what is certain, is that IF it is true, it's going to be a REALLY bad day(Gen) for Sony fanboys that staked their claim that PS4 was the superior machine. The systems are already great, but this would make it even that much better."

Hint's that its true? really?

Oh come the freak on, there is no hint's, there is no magic installed 2nd GPU, and you know the reason how i know this?

Because the price, point that Microsoft is offering the xboxone for, would not be even able to entertain such a price point without loosing over $300.00 on each and every freaking xboxone upfront.

You seen exactly what happens when you do this last generation, Sony used this form of 3D stacking TSV, and it cost them, and unlike Microsoft Sony was already invested into 3D stacked TSV far ahead of Microsoft. Since Microsft even has to have other companies produce their chips for them!

And even still Sony, even though is able to produce their own chip's its still an expensive process to perform. why do you think Sony had IBM and Toshiba along with them to produce the chip's?

There is no freaking Hint, unlike many it seem's who even think this is even remotely true it is as clear as day have not worked in this part of chip production at all, and would know this entire rumor is based on something that Sony has, but Microsoft has to have it also, because there is no why Sony's machine can have anything in it that is unique!

its pretty d@mn simple why this claim that Microsoft's xboxone is using 3D stacked TSV is bull crap and its not based on how much money each company his in its coffer's, its the fact that your company had to spend, and spend, and freaking spend ..invest and again invest, and invest again to do such chip production, and that is mainly so you can sell chips to other companies in order to recover the cost's of such production expenses.

Does Microsoft produce chips like these for other companies, themselves?

that Answer is a clear No!

they are not a chip production company.

http://forums.n4g.com/tm.as...

I already went over this very subject, way back months ago, unlike Microsoft, Sony has already been employing such production techniques for such chips. even the PSVita is already employing such 3D stacked TSV technology. but it takes multiple year's of investment to reach this point .

something Microsoft has not done because they are not in chip production, and again they have to find another such company to do it for them. go on, show me the chip chips spn number's i will be waiting

[acdata]

Microsoft already showed its SOC has 3 layers wafer 2 wafer so don't eat shit,even in its E3 presentation

[joeorc]

@acdata

"Microsoft already showed its SOC has 3 layers wafer 2 wafer so don't eat shit,even in its E3 presentation"

OMG just because it has 3 layer's does not mean its silicon is a 3D stacked TSV!

example:

web.eecs.umich.edu/~reetudas/ papers/decoupledISL-dac10.pdf‎

FIRST OF ALL WHO WILL BE PRODUCING YOUR Silicon Interposers?

if it was, they would be taking far larger loss than you think, 1st of all, TSV 3D stacked chips companies that make this silicon, do so as to net themselves far larger cost reductions much later down the road when they can ramp up production, but that is mostly if you intend to sell this chip or a ver on the open market.

unless Microsoft's SOC is being used to be on the open market, you can bet your bottom $$$ that the cost returns are going to maintain a much Higher cost in production cost's than a chip that would be ramped in much larger yields.

people need to read this and get it through their thick head's here:

"The cost of TSV manufacturing is still too high for most applications. In a 5µ diameter, 10:1 aspect ratio via middle TSV process technology, each tier (i.e., each wafer) bears an extra cost of $80-100, or 2-3%; the enabling point of 2.5D- and 3D-IC is very application- and design-dependent. The power/heat management burden is an unresolved challenge. Delayed payment and inventory management are major supply chain hurdles for involved parties to overcome. The current forecast is to see the first products in the second half of this decade."

we are talking about another 5 to 8 year's!
peep's

[solidboss07]

I am not convinced, but I'm not ready to condem these interesting rumours either. I hope that my beloved SONY have developed the most powerfull console because so many of their studios and partners will use all of the performance available.
Something bothers me,........ Mark Cerny said that although he didn't know what the final design of PS4 would be until he first saw it with the rest of us at its reveal..... he new what size it should be based on its performance. Now setting aside Microsofts cautions over reliability ect there is a huge disparity between the size of Xbone and its perceived performance.
Incredible if this turns out to be true, but No, PS4 is superior.

[shikamaroooo]

I just read the sources website, the guys posts such BS! no joke.

http://misterxmedia.livejou...

[devwan]

He's a huge troll and a very effective one at that judging by the reaction here.

[jackanderson1985]

they never said misterx was the source, what they said was that site did a similar in depth story but this one is based off their "sources" in the industry... still sounds like complete crap no doubt but hey at least it wasn't off of misterx

[Funantic1]

I'll support the X1 no matter if this is true or not.

[NoLongerHereCBA]

negative votes for something like this? Are people here really that pathetic?

[Jdoki]

Yes, yes they are. It's what makes N4G so entertaining.

[FlyShootRaceSims]

I really doubt this to be true, but if we are proven to be wrong when the NDA expires, then :)

[Niv]

Lol 6670

2300 stream processors' when they clearly stated 768 v sonys 1152

2gb gddr5- clearly stated 8 DDR 3.

Come on, 6670!

[DoesUs]

Oh dear, not this again. You XB1 fans really need to forget this stuff. It's just not happening...it really isn't.

[badkolo]

i for one doubt its true, it seems it would have slipped out somehow, this would be like a huge secret too keep, and while i do believe the x1 is built custom compared to the ps4 i dont think its more powerful number wise in the end, oor else they would have touted this. In a video one microsoft guy said they didnt target high end graphics but then i remeber the hdmi cable capable of 4k that they mentioned and then the black tape on the x1 beta units make me wonder if they actually have a secret. but after all the gaFFS ms has made and the 180's withoot mentioning this makes me think its not true

[pyramidshead]

Scanned article for 'misterx'. Well..whatdoyaknow aye?

"console with faster graphics and GDDR5 memory turns out the be the winner in terms of performance. But to our surprise, if this rumor turns out to be true, Microsoft could have the fastest gaming console to date. While i was still working on this article, i found out that misterxmedia had already covered most of the details that i recieved from the anonymous source. Do read it, since its more proof of what the Xbox One may be in reality."

Misterx, anonymous sources, 'proof'. Top fucking lels
Nothing to see here.

[TenorCleft1]

Most people have been saying that this is probably fake because Microsoft would be shouting about it by now.

I probably agree, but if there was an NDA on the technology that would explain a lot. Note how even developers who must surely know all about the hardware still haven't spilled the beans on either console, so even if developers knew, it doesn't mean they would be able to tell anyone. Furthermore, the comments from developers about the PS4's superior ability have mostly been focused on the superior RAM. Now, the RAM just obviously is superior, so they're free to make those claims, but I'm not sure if any developers of multi-platform titles have gone on the record as saying the PS4 actually has more graphical horsepower beyond the amazing RAM (maybe I'm wrong on this...). Furthermore, PS4 developers possibly wouldn't be clued up on this at all since the NDA meant only those on a need-to-know basis would have any idea. This might even mean that only specific people within a company necessarily need to know about those capabilities, which is certainly feasible given the modular way most big software ventures are completed these days.

Furthermore, if the NDA lifts at the end of September, that's still plenty of time for Microsoft to effectively drop this info like a bomb on the run-up to the console war upon launch. Do you really need longer than almost two months to read a news report and have it change your mind?

In addition, an NDA on this kind of thing makes sense. The complexity of IPR issues, and the difficulty of preventing your innovations being taken on board by someone else, might mean that since AMD is pushing to compete on all fronts, they feel that keeping their biggest innovations secret until release is a sensible move.

This rumour is unlikely, but we haven't seen anything that would demonstrably prove that this is false.

[Flutterby]

We have seen plenty to show that it's false how about the fact the console is having difficulties with fps on DR3 and the fact they haven't shown any multiplats running on an actual Xbox one yet. Also what about the guys removing things from killer instinct that where effecting their ability to keep the fps at 60?

[meatysausage]

theres one thing that im not understanding. Even with an NDA, its said that devs like ubisoft have the 'real' dev kit. But what bout launch devs like capcom and double helix etc, surely they would be quiet about it but be able to use the full power of the console to make sure Dead Rising and Killer Instinct are running 1080p 60fps

[Nivalis]

an NDA would not stop you from saying "we have the most powerful console".
and guess what they arent doing?
instead theyre playing down power and saying "hey everyone the games are more important than specs", would they REALLY say that if their specs were superior?

[bman-son]

Hopefully this isnt a rumor cos sony fanboys always go on and on about how superior ps4 is in terms of power when its actually isnt.

[Flutterby]

But it is tho .....so......yuh.

[bman-son]

lol the question is do you really believe that or is it to just justify your purchase?

[wishingW3L]

PS4 GPU = 1152 cores

XB1 GPU = 768 cores

PS4 Ram = 8GB GDDR5 - http://www.amd.com/Publishi...

XB1 Ram = 8GB DDR3 + 32MB esRam

Of-course the PS4 is more powerful unless you're a butthurt fanboy in denial.

[bman-son]

@flutterby****its so early in the consoles life cycle so like anything before release it is subject to change, this is a fairly big upgrade and i hope its true but even so x1 games are looking good, only a fanboy will say or think differently, devs will come to grips with hardware and find things easier to accomplish as the years go by

[twdll]

Really, most people like Playstation brand for these reasons, not just power anyway....
1. Exclusive Games
2. They dont rape u.
3. PSN
4. Graphics and power.
5. 100 bucks cheaper

[Pain_Killer]

4 - Graphics and Power

"most people like Playstation brand for these reasons, not just POWER anyway."

[stuna1]

Notice how you got disagreed with! But yet Sony fanboys have taken over the site, smh. I would think any Sony fan would agree with what you wrote, considering so many are apt to point out that the most powerful system has never won a generation! So what would that do their belief if the Xbox 1 actually is proven to have these specs!? Since that would mean it's the most powerful system.

Anything is possible especially when it comes to rumors, because in truth all rumors are based on facts no matter how small they may seem when they are proven or debunked, there is always basis of truth within it.

I'm sure there are things that haven't been revealed as of yet concerning the Xbox 1, but you can bet your bottom dollar that there are things that haven't been revealed about the PS4 as well! Either way it goes, I'm inclined to believe that the Xbox 1 will do things better in certain areas than the PS4, and the PS4 will do things better in certain areas than the Xbox 1.

[NarcolepZZZZZZ]

What's an apu?

[Supermax]

Think I read this in neogaf 3 weeks ago.duel gpu or something.

[will313]

True or not people are reading way too much into system power, it for damn sure didn't give PS3 an edge this generation and likely won't mean much next gen. Though I do think price will play a huge factor' all of this power talk is bullshit. 3rd parties are either going to make look similar on both or be bought out to make a game on one machine or the other so there will be NO comparison. To top it all off the well has run dry on both MS and Sony's first party franchises. So until somebody plays anything new they are making, it's stupid to stand firmly anywhere. Point is, power won't mean shit, show me the games.

[Cryptcuzz]

"for damn sure didn't give PS3 an edge this generation"

This is false, at the beginning that was true when devs did not know how to properly code for the PS3 SPU's, but when games like Uncharted Drakes Fortune was released, it was clear the PS3 does in fact have an edge on the 360. It was oh so clear even more when MGS4, GOW3 and Last of Us was released. Even now, a lot of the multi-platform games released performs and looks better on the PS3.

It will be different with the PS4 and Xbox One though. This time, there won't be a problem with whether one is a lot harder to develop for versus the other. Actually the roles have been reversed. This time, the PS4 will be slightly easier to develop for with just one pool of memory at 176 Gbps, whereas the Xbox One has to factor in the 32 Mb ESRAM along with its normal memory pool.

Aside for the difference in how memory is approached this time, both are pretty much identical in terms of architecture, CPU types used and GPU types used.

With that logic, it would be clear for the PS4, with its superior approach to memory and GPU to naturally perform and better on both first/second party games, as well as third party games.

Just ask yourself (keeping in mind both are "supercharged PC's") If two conoles built with the same components from the same manufacturer (AMD) with both having pretty much the same CPU, amount of memory and GPU type; if one has faster more easily accessible memory and a more capable GPU, which one would naturally perform and look better in games?

All game engines aside from first party games are naturally scale-able. Which means it will naturally scale to perform better on one system versus the other if the hardware allows it to. Unless of course game devs all of a sudden hold back its engine from running better on one system just for parity sake, which is another topic altogether.

/Sorry for the long post, been a long slow day at work for me.

[GodGinrai]

One thing Ill say about the X1..this has been the most dramatic console luanch ever!

If true...that was pretty sneaky, MS..but you damn near killed yourselves keeping that secret. if not then hey....another day..another random internet rumour.

[Jdoki]

I do think this is untrue - BUT... MS does have previous form for keeping silicon related things a secret.

Doesn't anyone remember the 'Ana' chip in the 360? That 'mystery chip' wasn't announced or unlocked for some time after launch.

http://forums.overclockers....

[joeorc]

its pretty evident its not even remotely true for very simple common sense reasons.

big one would be price point production cost's vs what loss Microsoft would be willing to take on a unit by unit basis. we already seen what happens when you employ such production techniques last generation with the PS3. lots of cost production for many years until much later many years and revisions later in order to reap the benefits.

its not true, no matter how many people want to think it is true because this is all the proof you need to know its not true. and no this is not just by looking @ it, there is spn's ON THE CHIP ITSELF!

http://www.wired.com/images...

SO YOU KNOW

that the claim its running 3D stacked TSV with a Discrete GPU is complete and utter Bull crap. so unless Microsoft want's to A: take over $250.00 to $300.00 per/unit loss for several years.

And

Not to mention delay the production of the units further until late next year's its not happening people.

[TheGrimReaper]

ANA is a hardware scaler...
Nothing more, nothing less.
It wasn't the ultra secret power booster...

Just a f* in' scaler -.-"

As people mentioned:
IF this is true, why don't the games look like it?

[Call_Of_Doggy]

I love how Xbox fanboys are stealth trolling this thread.
#TRUTHFACT
Its not true. Weather you believe it or not.

For $500 you are being ripped off. Lets do the math :-)

8 jaguar CPUs = $30
8GB DDR3 ram = $40
HD7790 GPU = $75
Case = $30
Power supply= $3
=$178 baseline for the console.

Kinect V2=$40
MS custom chip for Kinect=$10
=$50

Box, materials= $5

Controller,Cables=$60
=$65

Grand Total: $293
MS has an internal memo to make a profit Day1. They release junk hardware to do this.
500
-293
=$207 profit Day1 per unit sold.

Dont you see, certain people are trying to spin these super internals stories to mislead people into buying a weak system at a very high price.
They are trying to give it "value" by lying about its internals/cost to manufacture.

Woof!

[FlyShootRaceSims]

How'd you came up with those numbers? Were the real prices of each of the components disclosed to you somehow?

[wishingW3L]

Newegg.com my friend. These next-gen consoles are using off the shelve parts if you didn't know. And the PS4 should cost around the same if it weren't for the expensive GDDR5.

[hyperfire21]

Get your head out of ur ass... calling ppl fanboys while making up your own math for xb1 parts? lol seriously this is the heights of insanity.

[vigilante_man]

Please open up your own shop. At those prices you will be busy 24/7!

[FlyShootRaceSims]

@ Call_of_Doggy: They sell Kinect v2 on Newegg? That is amazing to hear!

One other thing, I believe you so I am cancelling my Xbox One preorder since I can buy all the parts from Newegg to build my own Xbox One. I will be able to save $207 according to you math. Thank you sir for helping save my money.

[windblowsagain]

Not sure about those numbers, but GPU is more a 7750.

http://www.gpureview.com/Ra...

[vivid83]

this news cant be credible purely for the fact that devs aren't using that power so how long would we have to wait for those games to get released? at least two years on top of the learning curve because if this true Microsoft handed sony an even longer headstart.

[cabbitwithscissors]

Lol, the industry hasn't really started this on RAM chips and they are talking about stacking CPUs and GPUs. This guy is smoking some serious s**t.

Dream on xbone fans, dream onnnnn...

Seriously, if this were the case, MS would be over the moon harping about the capabilities of the xbone vs. PS4.

The quiet response from them means that they have nothing in response. NOTHING !!!

Think for yourself, if you held an ace card and after all the negativity floating around with regards to your box, wouldn't you unload that ace and get some good news coming your way ?

[voodoogts]

Cell processor ftw!

[Nivalis]

yeah because with all the stick MS is getting about the console and all the negative press, they would totally sit on this and not be shouting it from every rooftop if it were actually true.

Guy in OP cant even get his facts straight about what GPU the xbox ones is based on so why should we believe anything else he says?

[fsfsxii]

So why was KI degraded from 1080 to 720p??
Dat damage control.

[obelix01]

OMG!!! Doesn't matter to me if this is true or complete BS. Its not effecting my decision to buy a X1. I'm still getting one. I just prefer the games on the X1. Games is what's fueling my choice on what to buy. Not specs. Its irrelevant too me.

[Elsupacabra]

He's quoting misterxmedia...

[southernbanana]

I pre ordered both the Xbox one and the PS4 and cannot wait for them to be delivered!! I am perfectly happy if this article is BS, which it probably is, since most developers have said they will be very similar. On the other hand there are some comments made by developers recently that have me questioning whether the claims made in this article could be more than a rumor. I don't have time to dig the articles up but I have read developer comments such as. "one of the consoles will be surprisingly more powerful". "I can't speak of what I know of the Xbox one until the end of September due to a non-disclosure agreement". Those two developer comments alone make me wonder if the X1 chip is more advanced than we believe. Still think it is BS though. ;-)

[cityboy100]

Welcome to ps4g.com any news good or bad about xbone is shot down here. Might be true might not about the core being stacked. Just give me the games that look and play nex gen please. If its for ps4 or xbone I don't care which one, just bring it. My money is on naughty dog devs to push the ps4 just to give us a taste of what it could do.

[Thomaticus]

Two months or so before release and we still talking specs. I sont want to read another xb1 article till all info is out on the table.

[HeroReborn]

Well I enjoy how some will speak on this topic, and not even really be able to understand the process in which it takes to create these type of Die (chips).

[Rhinoceros]

The only real assets a Console has are its exclusive developers. Power won't make the Xbox because it never made the PS4 to begin with. Sorry, Maria, you can go all AYN RAND darwin theory but it's heinous. I said I was sticking to Carmack before, and I won't change that direction based on new information from MS. I believe they are essentially the same.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Hard to say and honestly its not in MS' s best interest not to have this out there unless its AMD that is keeping the lid on this with the NDA to keep it from Nvidia and the likes. More than likely its not the case as of right now based on all we DO know.

[Keregan]

If true, this will be really nice, can't wait to get my brand new toy :)

[JessiePinkmanYo]

I hate to turn this rumored good news into something bad but...Has MS even begun production on this thing yet?! A release date would be nice!

[BG11579]

Me I still waiting to see multiplateform games in both consoles.
Then I will make my judgement. Until now, I've only seen the PS4's version.

[josephayal]

Funny article

[kingduqc]

7790

"Powerful"

[MrMURDERFACE]

this "rumor" is a very big stretch. but the NDA thing does make sense and that is a very HUGE R&D budget for a modified 6000 series gpu that already exists to be in the xbox ONE. There are also rumors that Microsoft might try to sell off the gaming division after Ballmer retires which leads me to believe SOMEONE at Microsoft thinks they're taking a very huge and expensive risk especially considering the 360 has been profitable. as far as the speculation of Microsoft letting Sony beat them down and not break an NDA just to move units in the beginning i will say that the console "race" is all about the finish line and not the starting line.

[gdguide]

WHY would Microsoft keep this under wraps considering the PS4 hardware is finalized and wouldn't have time to react? There's no time for Sony to change things. Microsoft needed to let people know this in a conference as of a couple of months ago. If it's true, Microsoft are reallllly stupid to not say anything and have PS4 preorders killing X1 preorders. Gamers needed to know this stuff at E3.

I'm just finding it really odd that Microsoft said around E3 that specs don't matter. If they had something as good as the PS4 specs wise or better, they could have just said what they had from the start and not face yet another negative view in the gamers minds.

[NextGen24Gamer]

If you remember correctly MS kept saying that Specs don't matter & to "Look at the games". MS kept pointing to the fact that their games looked better and that's all that should matter. Which is about all they could say with the NDA in place. How could the xbox one do the 4k gaming that they claimed it could do and invest billions into AMD for a lesser graphics card? Does that make sense? NO it doesn't.

MS spent billions for lesser tech than whats in the ps4? LOL...Not a chance.

[gdguide]

I think my main point is this. If they have the specs that match or surpass the PS4, is it worth keeping your mouth shut about it and losing potentially a million console sales to the PS4 in the first year? Is it worth it to have Sony running their mouth about being the most powerful and having more favorable views during launch while Microsoft stays quiet? All because you want to surprise us? Most people don't have the money to buy both consoles at launch. Would Microsoft be waiting for people to buy a PS4 before they let the cat out of the bag? It's too late by then.

If they have greater specs and are keeping quiet, they are nuts. They need to let people know NOW. I'm sure their investors would love to hear about why they gave away millions of sales to Sony by acting sly.

[ceedubya9]

I think the key here (if it is true) would be that the reason they would be keeping quiet is because of the NDA.

[fooltheman]

http://www.stuff.tv/microso...

About 4k gaming...

[Kidmyst]

If this is true, this could pump out some heat.

[joefrost00]

This rumor more than likely is false
But one thing is fact the guys at hotchips conference clearly said that MS was hiding something cause they only gave them half of the information in the specs
Now they part of them system thats inferior to the PS4 the ram MS has already confirmed so would not be they didnt show it caused they are embarrassed
And look how they kept the 8gb of flash a secret
Now I dont think its a whole other GPU but something is definitely being hid
You might disagree with the rumor cant blame you but two things that are hard cold facts:
1. MS did intentionally hide part of there specs at hotchips
2. MS Mark Whitten and Albert Penello made a reference to holding on to the official specs cause of worrying sony would change theres

P.S. I dont know why this would be so shocking if everyone remember back when the leaked documents came out
The architecture of the new xbox had two GPUs in there

[windblowsagain]

OMFG news just in.

SONY has announced there is a part in the PS4 that is not visible in our spectrum.

It's a popcorn button. For just when you need it.

[Foxgod]

It would explain why the x1 launch games look more impressive.

[Ryto]

A guess at tomorrow's news:

Rumour: X1 to feature quantum entangled tardis heart as its GPU, coupled with the power of the cloud, the X1 is estimated to become self aware 1 week after launch.

These articles bore me.

[solidworm]

Gonna be a load of red faces when this turns out to be a total fail article as we all know it is.

[vigilante_man]

Have just read through most of this (almost impossible to read it all) jumble and it makes some very interesting arguments. But the 2 most noticeable things about this are:

1:) Reads like an article about alien abductions. Conspiracy theories, or what?
2:) The guy sure likes Microsoft and does not like PS4.

I highly doubt it is true. He has put 2 + 2 = 7!

But for conspiracy theorists amongst us it is a great read...

[joefrost00]

Really?
Cause I read the article and the mista acrticle to a week ago
First off let me say I dont believe it but if you read them and look at it objectively
They make better case for it to be true

[mkis007]

They do make a good case considering how crazy their claims are. But this is coming from someone who doesnt know what half of these numbers mean.

[JuniorCE]

I dont buy it... M$ would've already announced if it was true... Even to promote the X1... Its just another rumor...

[NextGen24Gamer]

NDA....Simple....Not complicated....

Remember the ANA chip in the xbox 360 that wasn't unlocked until after the ps3 launched? MS has a history of pulling off such stunts, which is smart in the long run!

I have one question for Sony Fans who doubt that there is any chance of this being true.

When MS first announced the vague specs of the xbox one, why didn't they announce that the xbox one had 8 gigs of flash memory to go along with their 8 gigs of Ram?

[robotgargoyle]

That tidbit of info was suprising to hear. If MS is hiding something, they fooled me.

I thought the specs/components looked generic and underpowered (and as of now are) compared to PS4.

I'll say the NDA has hurt them from the get go. MS still has time to turn it around.

The next gen console wars have barely begun.

[givemeshelter]

If this is true... Oh the damage control on N4G.COM LOL

[SaturdayNightBeaver]

lol even if it has it, 6670 is just too weak

[Harmonizer]

Yes because it would totally make sense for Microsoft to hide this from everyone -.-

[ceedubya9]

Normally they probably wouldn't, but if this is true it seems that the NDA is what is keeping them quiet for now.

[BG11579]

So the Cloud computing thing was just to mislead the competition to...

[FANTA1180]

nice article , if true could be really neat for the console.

all of you fanboys should just worry about your console

preference, dont know why fanboys need to go comment on a

console theyre not buying and vice versa.

[lllll-lllll]

I hope for MS this is true, it would be surprising to say the least.

Personally i'll be happy with Sony whatever the outcome of this article may be. Shadow fall looks awesome (have you seen the full multiplayer session, omg right?) PS+ is also very very nice and the DS4 controller is to my likings :)

I only care if the microsoft processor turns out to be a graphene one while Sony's isn't :) http://wccftech.com/graphen...

[robotgargoyle]

I thought all was to be revealed at hotchips, and I guess it wasn't the case. We'll see. There are times where I felt I made the wrong decision in preordering an xb1, but I know their game lineup is right for me. I keep expecting some groundbreaking announcement and have been disappointed largely. If something is being held secret, one can only speculate at this point. That is what we're seeing. Pure speculation. It seems unlikely though. You'd think cost would be through the roof.

[Metfanant]

OH LORD ALMIGHTLY! how did an article using misterx as a source get approved!?...this is where Fidgid and Elite24 get their absolutely ridiculous imformation from and then come and spam the comments here with their rubbish

[joefrost00]

Actually he is not the source
He is just referenced to have wrote about it in more detail
If you read the article he says his source is someone else and how mista has his own source

[Cherchez La Ghost]

It would be funny that MS hold back some of their spec's. You just don't let your competition everything about you.

[Metfanant]

This needs to STOP...

if you read the posts by misterx its so obvious he is making things up...OR is being played like a fiddle by someone he wants to believe is some sort of developer...

they talk about this stacked architecture and how it is going to allow the Xbone to have like 4Tflops of performance, and games could be rendered in 2k or 4k...

yes, the Xbone supports 4k gaming, but it can do 4k gaming for a game that looks like Pong...why would Killer Instinct be only 720p after it was originally announced to be 1080p??...hmmm

so their saying that its the choice of the devs? they COULD have rendered the game in native 2k or 4k and then downsampled to 1080p...but INSTEAD they choose to render in native 720p and then upscale? COME ONNNNNN!!!

why is Ryse only running at 30fps if this architecture is there? EVERYONE knows that you only get to make one first impression...and there is NO WAY ON EARTH that MS would allow the Xbone and its games to take the beatings they have been from the press and gamers by showing intentionally gimped versions that are not taking advantage of some super secret tech...

this is WORSE than the "secret sauce" or "12GB of RAM rumors" this isn't even a RUMOR...its just a made up post by one of the most dedicated MS fanboys ive ever encountered who absolutely refuses to accept reality...

[imt558]

Another GPU??? So why then TitanFall and Killer Instinct are below 1080p???

[wtopez]

What a surprise. Xbox obliterated PS2 in terms of raw power and technology but PS2 still won by a land slide because of actual games. Xbox 360 introduced technology that was not available even to the dedicated PC GPUs of it's time and managed to look just as good (and sometimes a lot better) than the PS3, the same PS3 that was supposed to obliterate everything in it's path. It's almost like a massive tech company knows what it's doing with it's tech. If this turns out to be true and Sony didn't add a dGPU to it's system (which is possible considering that this has been rumored since the massive documents leaks early in the year that did suggest that MS was indeed using an APU+dGPU solution) then Sony is in deep. This is no longer an era of Japanese games dominance. Western developers have that crown now, and MS has a cozy relationship with a lot of said developers. I must admit that if this is in anyway true I will enjoy the spin that the PS4 fans will desperately generate. And also the possible transformation from the X1 fans from being bullied to becoming the bullies (and sometimes loudmouth assholes- ugh).

[robotgargoyle]

If the tables get turned on Sony, I hope xbots take the the high road for once.

I doubt any new info (especially pro-MS) would silence the trolls/ zealots on either side.

[CC-Tron]

Yes. I'd say it's a sure bet there will be much retribution and roast crow served on a hot plate.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

I'm having a tough time believing this. However, MS seems to be letting the games do the talking. After playing all the launch games of the Xbox One and PS4 at PAX, they have nothing to worry about. The only game I couldn't actually play on the floor was Dead Rising 3.

Both consoles look great in person. The PS4 being much thinner but the One looked good and not as big as I thought from pictures. I loved both the controllers except my fingers were constantly slipping off the triggers of the DS4. They needed to give them more of a trigger grip but something I will get used too.

[bigboirock]

why hasn't Microsoft denied this yet????wouldn't yall think they would of by now if it was false

[Metfanant]

because its completely made up with no base in reality...its not even news worthy lol

[richie007bond]

It would be hilariously funny if this rumour turned out to be true, you would look rather pathetic and I would laugh my fooking ass off.

[SpideySpeakz]

Yes, very...very doubtful

[cunnilumpkin]

for the love of all that is HILARIOUS please let this be true, please let the xbox1 be WAY more powerful than the ps4

all the ps4 kiddies have been running around since the ps4 reveal SCREAMING their heads off about how the ps4 is so powerful

it would be epic hilarity if the xbox1 turns out to be way more powerful

honestly, I could care less, they are both total weak sauce imo, but it would be funny as hell!

[Eonjay]

The number this article give would put it in line with a Titan video card. This isn't realistic. The only thing gamers are paying extra for is Kinect.

[Drewminati]

I suggest everybody wait til the end of sept. Either ms has something more powerful or they don't, either way i'm looking forward to next gen.

we shall see

[90Supra]

http://i61.photobucket.com/...

[NeloAnjelo]

Yeah right. If this was the case they would have announced it! Based on the backlash on specs, why would they not announce this?

BS just like DA CLOUD!!

[Asv6SEMPER]

yeah yeah, after the hidden cloud, now the hidden chip.

Microsoft: lying since 1995.

[Trolls_Are_A_DISEASE]

Non Disclosure Agreement - For the 100th time this prevents parties involved from talking about it. All the comments talking about backlash and so on they have to stay quiet on the matter.

The NDA timing will be the icing on the cake that leaves PS4 fans scrambling a month and a half before launch. Fanboys will have been lied to and unless Microsoft opens the flood gates to more orders you will either be stuck with the inferior PS4 or will be forced to cancel and ponder the lies that have been presented to you over and over.

The PS4 team continues to throw verbal jabs while all along Microsoft is set to play its card perfectly and ironically will announce that their systems is truly more powerful and designed to compete with high end PC's for years to come.

The most powerful system should accommodate all resolutions/fps and be future proof for at least 5-10 years. Only one system is capable of 2k and 4k gaming and has billions to spend on R&D and whatever they want.

[Metfanant]

if the Xbone is powerful enough for 4k games...

why is Killer Instinct 720p?
why does Ryse run at 30fps?
why does Dead Rising 3 struggle to hit 30fps?
why does Forza 5 use prebaked lighting/shadows with no weather and no day/night cycle?
why have we never seen the Xbone version of BF4?

i mean i would think that second GPU would take care of all those problems...

[imt558]

Agree!

[windblowsagain]

OMFG common sense on N4G.

Spot on.

They are even removing thigns from Killer Instinct because the GPU isn't good enough.

7750+

13.1 gigapixel.

against

25.6 gigapixel PS4.

[SDS Gamerfiend]

Bad coding.

[Sweep14]

No NDA in the world would prevent MS to say that X1 is more powerful than PS4.
Why haven't they said that with all the backlash they received...?
Why didn't they told us "X1 is graphically more powerful than PS4, discover why in october" or something like that ?
HINT : Because, IT'S NOT...

[SEAN1617]

DING DING DING We have a winner!

[GarrusVakarian]

If you seriously believe that EITHER console will be able to do native 2k or 4k then i feel sorry for how naive you are.

P.S.....are you Elite24Gamer? If not, then there is some serious clone action going on. You sound just like him.

You created your account 6 hours ago, type exactly like him and link to the same website he did....coincidence? I think not. Trolls are a disease? IRONIC!

[mic_cala]

My dear lord this guy is absolutely delusional.

Talk about wishful thinking.

[BG11579]

He is right, the most powerfull system will do that and it's called PC.

But for the sake of it, lets say that the Ps4 is closer to achieve that tthan the xbox 180 (cards well played MS).

And another thing, since when with this console has MS played well his cards? It's a freaking PR nightmare! Just the number of 180 that MS has done since the reveal should give you a hint.

[joefrost00]

Why do the xbox games look and perform better

[SKULLFACE]

Obviously microsoft are trying to slowly try and become better than their competition so that they can give the ps4 a run for its money but the ps4 is already too far ahead to be caught up with.

[isarai]

Doubt this is true, if they had something like this they would not be keeping it a secrete, they'd be bragging about it to show how powerful it will make their games

[cheameup]

Now the numbers and if its possible I don't know. I'm not a tech guy.

But from a marketing angle there is no reson why it couldn't be true. The pre release marketing hasn't even kicked off yet for either console. The only people really following the consoles at the moment is us. MS have no reason to tell us anything right now. No one can walk out of a shop with either console for months. MS know that tech specs will change the mind of many hardcore gamers who have sworn off the xbone.

In fact I'd say if it is true and ms are holding back info for a killer blow I'd even say it was a very smart strategy. This is a long war. Winning the 1st battle means nothing.

[REDAVUTSTUVADER]

Linkedin profile of AMD’s GPU Engineer Vinber Lei

has been removed, I wonder why? M$ or AMD damage control?
good thing I printed it out.

[annus]

Or because it was fake. I read through that crap when you spammed it last, it had one or two jobs on it. There is no way that's the only experience an AMD engineer has.

[JunioRS101]

This source is about as reliable as the author is a grammar prodigy.

[thetruthx1]

Wow it all adds up now :-D

I wondered why Ms never really discussed Oban blitter processor

"we can do 4k games" ;)

This also explains the resurgence of Ps4 development kits instead of the consoles

Microsoft helped design the chips hence the reason they can afford it

Watchdogs, Battlefield 4, and the Witcher look better on Xbox One. They can't show the Xbox 1 versions yet due to the agreements with Sony

Anyone notice how the insider gave full details about the new Ryse test demo and the date it was documented *8/25*

[Izzy408]

What amazes is not the fact that people are being skeptical, it's the fact that so many people don't seem to want this to be true. Unbelievable. What's wrong with possibly having a more powerful console in the X1?

[thexmanone]

Because there are only PS Fanboys at n4g.com. They are scared of the truth.

[Phish]

“Microsoft disclosed some details but left many important pieces out. Evidently, Microsoft doesn’t want to tell all of its competitors about how well designed its system is.”

This doesn't even make sense. Let's not tell anyone about how great our new system is. I don't believe this for a second.

[MRMagoo123]

So elite24gamer strikes again with his blog on another no name site lol this is getting silly now, there are sooooo many reasons why this is fake its not funny, it would take about 40 pages, but the main ones that ppl cant deny are the games for a start, they are struggling keeping 30fps on DR3 ffs IF this console has the power of a titan inside this wouldnt be the case, IF the console has the power of a titan inside why do the ps4 games look and run better such as second son and kill zone <---------- they are all rhetorical because the answer is already known.

The excuse about the NDA is bull too , they make not be able to talk about the hardware at all but MS can say they have the most powerful hardware, which they didnt they actually said they "purposely didnt try for the most powerful hardware"

The devs making the games on the console would also be allowed to use the hardware but just not talk about the dGPU, with the evidence that most games on the xbone cant even run at 1080p with 60 fps shows that the dGPU isnt real, which leads me to another point.

The fact that this Misterx douche aka mistercmedia and all the other names he has to pretend its different ppl says the games can run at 4k yet they still struggle to get KI to 720p with 60 fps.

All this FACTS prove beyond all doubt this rumour is complete BS and made up.

There are going to be a lot of xboners on here looking like fools for years after the NDA is up and nothing comes from it besides what we already know and that is the ps4 has the better hardware.

One more point i will edit into this overwhelming evidence that the rumour is false, Ryse lol the game has gotten worse graphically since the first reveal on the *cough*op pc *cough* Xbone ,somehow this super powerful console cant even get ryse to run well.

[thexmanone]

The force is strong with this one.

[richie007bond]

If this rumour turns out to be true ur gonna look a right Numpty lol, i for one awaits with baited breath to laugh my ass off at your fanboy nonsense.

[mkis007]

One side is going to look bad no matter what "duh". Just that if this is all made up, I think it looks worse than if someone didn't' believe something so unbelievable.

[MRMagoo123]

nice rebuttal to my facts guys you sure showed me lol, so i show evidence and explain it and then as most xboners do you revert to trolling.

[jairusmonillas]

This is like the 12GB DDR3 rumour. basically false.

[Krosis]

Xbox unsubstantiated conjecture: bs. Damage control. MS paid them to say that.etc
PS4 unsubstantiated conjecture: ftw. Sony rules. "Greatness awaits" (so lame lol)

This site makes me laugh lol I can literally predict the comments.

So many computer engineers on this site too!

[GodGinrai]

Icant beleive how many responses this thread has gotten. I already posted REAL facts about X1...

http://n4g.com/news/1343738...

http://n4g.com/news/1342967...

NONE of you were in those threads...So I gotta ask..Why get so worked up about rumour and hear say..using it as an excuse to bash Xbox, yet when the facts were rolled out none of the types of comments I seen here, where in that thread. What? Its better to get all riled up about misinformation than to have proper conversation about factual specs?

Im a little dissapointed N4G...

[SEAN1617]

Sorry if this was true don't you think Microsoft would be shouting it from the high hills???? why wait and let Sony walk all over them?

[OneAboveAll]

Do't see why eople think 1080 or 720 is a big deal. The difference isn't noticeable unless a game has really fine details.

[Sy_Wolf]

Yeah, that's not gonna be a thing.

[madpuppy]

there is absolutely no way Microsoft would hide something like this, they would be shouting it from the rooftops and bragging and patting their own collective backs for how "smart" they are.

Wishful thinking, all it is is wishful thinking.

[DaymanOooaahhh]

According to a recently posted Ign article, it's the CPU that was improved, not the GPU.

[SEAN1617]

I LOLed because someone here actually tried to provide me the definition of an NDA. I know what an NDA is, all I was stating that it would make absolutely zero marketing sense for the Micro Soft to sign such an NDA.

PS in my line of work we deal with NDAs all the time, and usually they are used before a deal is made, not after. Thus again an NDA really would not make sense. Sorry people this is fake.

[mkis007]

Based on just the fact that no reputable site is posting anything about this; it is false. These "reputable sites" also have far more confirmed "insiders" than anyone else is going to have. With the new confirmation of 1.75 ghz cpu and previously 853 mhz gpu; I highly doubt there is a story that MS is able to hide so well. Actually we know a lot more about the Ones' GPU and CPU than we do about the PS4s'.

[mwjw696]

Yes because if these so called "reputable sites" so much as mention this it violates the NDA... Every other confirmed spec was reveled by MS.

If MS was able to hide all details about the XBOX specs till the conference(a 2 year old spec sheet got leaked nothing current) don't you think they could keep this a secret?

Hell look at the name alone... not a single person in the world new the NAME till MS told us... its a shitty name BTW. I liked Infinity so much more.

[Flutterby]

Web sites don't have an NDA clause lol if ppl find out by snooping they can report anything they want, I can't even believe you think the NDA would stop news sites from reporting it.

[mkis007]

First it was FCC now it is NDA, what will the Acronym be next week. A non disclosure agreement does not apply to a journalist, review embargo is the closest thing you get.

[Dusdg]

Yes it does lol anyone can sign an NDA and get sued to high heaven if they talk. Tech writers sign Nda's all the time to get hands on with a product before release.

[JunioRS101]

In my honest opinion, the PS4 exclusives have noticeably better graphics than X1 exclusives.

So until I see an X1 exclusive that impresses me as much as KZ and Infamous, I'll reserve my belief in any mystical graphical capability until after I am convinced by visible results.

Sure, they're different game types, I get that. But I don't care. KZ looks beautiful, Second Son looks incredible.

Forza? sure, but it's a racing game and driveclub will looks great too. Show me something else. Ryse? give me a break. Ryse has disproportionately good graphics, because the character model textures are excellent but environment geometry and character animations are mediocre.

Disagree all you want.

[mic_cala]

Lol this prob aint true but its jsut funny people claimin xbox is stronger yet there are these reports of xbox doin little boots whever they can.

A superior console wouldnt need to be makin last minute changes just food for thought.

[DOOMZ]

Oh boy, this is going to be good!!!

[Sarick]

Wouldn't this make the system more difficult to program for? Don't you think all the developers would've leaked this by now? Someone would've been bound to leak this info by now.

[nightfallfilms]

"Over the next 3 days(misterx - from 30.08.2013).. something will happen. Not big not small.. but every sony fanboy gaf attacker will really have to stop and think about all there theory.."

This was from that Misterx blog, and what comes out today, CPU power for the One is increased. Could this have been what he was talking about? If so there must be some truth to this insider that he has. Not saying this whole 2nd GPU is going to happen but it sure does make you think.

[meatysausage]

whether its true or not, Its still interesting to read about

[ilovefatgirls]

so lets say hypothetically that the rumor is true would this mean that the xbox still hasn't gone into production?

at this point i dont think anyone would be surprised if it hadnt like i mean if theres talk all of a sudden of a new gpu been slapped in surely its still on the drawing board?

[lovelobster]

http://m.gamespot.com/news/...

[meatysausage]

Not saying its true, but they say its been planned since 2009/10

[ilovefatgirls]

i dont know what to think they say alot though. i still find it a hard pill to swallow, them saying its been in development for the last 3/4 years.
When you consider the fact the features they were pushing before all the turn arounds.
it was reminiscent of the waster in school doing a project in 3 days what he had 6 months to do, didnt read a single text or take a note.

We'll see soon enough

[lovelobster]

the Xbox One's CPU has been boosted a further 150MHz, raising it from 1.6GHz to 1.75GHz.

[whitesoxfalife1976]

This thread went from 40 to 386 well shitfire!!!!!!!!

[Idba]

KL SF is 1080p 60fps, do is DC, INF SS

[Skeith]

Yeah, that's why Flopza 5 has prebaked lighting, KI run at 720p, DR3 run below 30 FPS, Ryse has shitty MP graphics, and Titties Fall has laughable graphics.

Let him dream.

[Majin-vegeta]

Titties falls??Hahaaha OMG my side hurts thank you for making my night xD.

[hyperfire21]

lame.... both of u

[Sci0n]

tities fall!! lol im dead!!!!

[Sci0n]

its really sad xbox loyalist are trying to cling on to far fetched rumors. Look how desperate they all look lol. I can just picture them in last stand mode wounded on the ground with there gun out looking to take others down with them cod status desperation.

[PS4isKing_82]

My god so much arguing over tiny things. Seriously just pick the console you want most and have fun. This is the first new console gen we've had in close to a decade. It should be enjoyed and having fun with all the new features these new consoles will bring.

[lunatic0001]

seriously...is it just me or with every generation of consoles that passes by....gamers get dumber and dumber...do any of you loyal dumbasses even get paid for being such fanboys...nobody gives a fuck what console you think is better...seriously...you idiots ever wondered why there are sooooooo many retarded articles like this one around...because they are guaranteed to get many views by you loyal dogs....stop being dumbasses!!!!!!!!!!!

[REDAVUTSTUVADER]

For everyone who says why didn't Microsoft just say XBOX ONE is more powerful. THEY DID , DUMMIES You just said they are lying.
MARC WHITTEN XBOX WILL HAVE "the best-looking games in the living room" (GOOGLE IT)

ALBERT PANELLO
"Given the rumored specs for both systems, can anyone conceive of a circumstance or decision one platform holder could make, where despite the theoretical performance benchmarks of the components, the box that appears "weaker" could actually be more powerful?

[AX7]

exactly. They've seem to be dropping hints, but this could also be nothing.

I do believe there is something to this story. It might not have anything to do with a hidden chip, but I suspect there is another bomb MS is going to drop. Now we just have to see if it's a big or small one.

[NoLongerHereCBA]

I'm not saying I believe it, but the account of the engineer who put the dGPU part on his linkedIn is no longer online.

Atleast: cn.linkedin.com/in/vinberlei does not work for me anymore.

Just a coincidence or is there more to it?

[/stokingTheFire]

[jerethdagryphon]

thee biggest reason im calling bull on this isnt the idea of a 2nd chip its that theyd have a dgpu stacked on an apu

thats like having 2 icecream cones one inside the other no point

if you were going to do that then youd take your spu and ask them to put a 7970 chip on die with it make an apu out of both

you wouldnt start with an apu and add a ghip on top seperate yes internally no i just done see it

read a report on the idea they specify fab and cost difficultys increasing with chip complexitys