With digital sales growing, how will gaming's biggest retailer stay on top?
Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter believes it's an incorrect gamers' perception that Microsoft has lost to Sony.
"If we change what our goal is, we're not losing" attitude. Kind of like how Microsoft didn't lose to Valve, they just changed their business model. And they didn't lose to Android and iOS, they just changed their business model. They 100%, after spending 3 generations competing heavily in console hardware, aren't losing to Sony, they're just changing their business model.
You can't ever lose if you just 'change your business model'!
Patcher predicted that take two would be brought out by ea he knows very little about the content of games and is so numbers focused
Yet I remember that he predicted perfectly that there was no way the acquisition of ABK would not go through and that the FTC and the CMA would fold when all the media had It's basically over kind of news.
He mentioned that MS would outsource COD streaming rights (or deny COD from appearing on GP) in UK.
What's kinda crazy to me is - if they retreat from consoles they're left with a business model that depends on making great games that people want to buy.
What has been Xbox's biggest issue over the last decade or so?
It's not like they're falling back to a strength...
They didn't retreat and even promised the biggest generational leap! Where did you get retreat from?
And just think of all those game franchises that are trapped with them, especially those they bought instead of creating.
@Gamer Yeah, just like the One X was a leap. Just like Series X was a leap. What did they bring to the table.....a leap in games? No, they brought sweet f all. Guys like you just never learn or are just dumb, falling for MS' talk talk talk over and over again.
Business is all about money not actual sales. If I sell 1 thing for 1 million and you sell 10000 things for 900k Who really won.
The person who sold 10000 things because he has developed a consumer base and consistent revenue stream while simultaneously showing that he has the capacity to obtain market share.
The person who sold 1 thing for a million hasnt proven much outside of the simple fact that he can get an idiot to pay a copious amount of money for a single product. Holla at me when he has proven he can do it consistently overtime.
This is a nuanced subject matter
How about the gamers perspective
Xbox as a console business is last in the gamersphere. Pivot after pivot, swerve after swerve. If it wasn't for pc the xbox console would died a while back. Console owners need to choose what's best for them, their experiences or the console owners profits
Great. Guess who is in third place (just talking the main console market, not even including mobile and PC) both on software sales, hardware sales, and video game revenue?
***Chris you might wanna do ya research ***
You're right! It's only 2nd place on revenue. Good on you.
"Based on these revenues, we can see that: PlayStation made $11.3 billion more than Xbox, and $14.7 billion more than Nintendo. Xbox made $3.4 billion more than Nintendo."
Now, do you want to find me proof that Xbox isn't in third on hardware and software sales? They've literally cannibalized their own sales via subscription services and their hardware is well known to be last place.
But, hey, Microsoft is okay losing in every category here, why would they get rid of a part of their business that they are in turn (and wasn't accounted for in 2023 numbers totally since it was distributed over 5 years, 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026, and 2027, the cost of their latest purchase) spending more than 7x their annual revenue on.
@Chris I'm glad you did ya research seen you were wrong but you also forgetting this. Revenue isn't everything my friend, remember business is about money
https://www.essentiallyspor...
Oh my days, this is a terrible analogy...
If it was just about money, Microsoft wouldn't be doing a sub model, would they? They are literally making it cheaper than game purchases to get more uptake from more people. The goal is to have enough recurring subs over time to increase revenue (and eventually profitability), but that doesn't work in your assessment because they literally need to "sell 10000 things".
Good grief...
***Revenue isn't everything my friend***
Yeah, you know what that TweakTown report doesn't include? Any of the cost to buy ABK. That makes it a massive loss. Massive.
@DarXyde
That analogy still works, they need to consistently sell those subs to maintain/gain revenue, if they can't constantly sell those subs.
Switch "things" with "Subs", and it still works, but they need to constantly convince people to keep buying that subscription, other people will drop their subscription and revenue will decline.
FinalFantasyFanatic,
I don't think that quite works:
The argument this guy is making actually sounds supportive of Playstation selling a game over Game Pass subs.
Let's take a practical example, Persona 3 Reload.
If Atlus sells you the game at $70 on Playstation and "gives it away" on Xbox as long as you continue to pay for Game Pass, well... Following their logic, wouldn't it be better if fewer people buy it for a higher price than basing it on engagement via more people on XGP? How many people would you need to play P3R on Game Pass to get the same revenue?
Eventually, the latter *can be better*, but there is the matter of a larger install base on Playstation and XGP subs are a fraction of Xbox gamers.
It's a bit ironic and I think biases are on full display because what Philly boi is saying is, in principle, more supportive of the PlayStation model, but the thing is, PlayStation has both a higher price of access AND a larger pool to pull from.
If we want to talk about the manufacturers themselves and hardware, Xbox can be purchased cheaper than PS5, but it is still getting trounced in number of sales and price of admission.
I don't really see how this argument works.
The console war we've been watching for the last two decades has been what I find interesting. I don't really care how much profit MS can make by buying King and running Candy Crush any more than I care how much money they make bleeding businesses for MS Office licenses. That's boring. The fun thing to watch has been the work these companies have put in to try to win the console market.
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The obvious rebuttal to Pachter's cray cray notion is that you wouldn't have to change your model if you were winning.
Or "those who win get to change their business model."
Fanboyism ends at a brick wall of "big company no care about whether you like or hate them, get a life."
Sony said similar things when their Walkman was beaten by Apple and when Samsung surpassed them in the TV market. I can go on and on but I'm sure you get the picture. Business is business. All companies take a whippen every now and and then. The difference is how you bounce back. Microsoft net worth has grown over the years. Business wise they are very successful and no matter what, sony would love to be where they are financially. Sony isn't the competition microsoft worries about. That been clear for a long time now. Microsoft wants gaming to be a part of their ecosystem. Sony needs it. Big difference there.
There's a lot wrong here.
First, the attempt to turn this argument into one about other failed businesses. Which, surprisingly, you make the argument I'm making but then...
Second, the attempt to confirm that Microsoft isn't competition when Microsoft admitted in court that they are.
Third, the attempt to act like Microsoft, from a business perspective, doesn't need what they spent over $100b to acquire but Sony does? Laughable.
Businesses are about profits. If you stop earning enough profit in a division, it goes away. Simple as that. Xbox is a division competiting against Valve, Epic, Sony, Nintendo, Android, and iOS. Simple as that. Xbox, to remain 'part of the ecosystem' needs to not cost the company more than it brings in. Simple.
They actually won.
The whole point was to force Sony into playing ball so that they could not put “windows” in more jeopardy than it was at the time.
Apple, Google, then Sony innovating while partnered with Linux…
When will people realize it has never been about gaming as to why Microsoft got into gaming?
Trojan horses people.
With the way Linux and Steam Deck are going, Linux might one day catch up to Windows, it's doing pretty well for gaming these days compared to say, 10 years, or even 5 years ago.
I don't understand who u r saying won...
But I agree in that I wouldn't be surprised if Windows was part of the calculus for MS supporting Xbox. The OS was based on Windows at first and Xbox One kinda had two Windows instances if you count the hypervisor.
But, like the console space, I think MS is walking back on OS domination. Apple and Google completely ate their lunch because....surprise surprise they innovated. I'm 100% confident the reason Phil talks (and shows) about the Asus ROG Ally more than Steam Deck is because of Windows. The Steam Deck has to sting for them.
Well, yeah, that's the point. They're too big-a-company for fanboy stuff to be at-all relevant.
Well last I checked a company goal is to make more and more money,
Nintendo could be an example of how they stopped trying to compete with Sony (during the Gamecube day) and decided to focus on a different market and reinvented themselves with the WII.
They reinvented themselves with the Switch by bringing 2 markets together when ppl said that portable consoles were doomed thanks to cellphones and tablets.
Sony's business models also changed when they decided to port games to PC something that was never supposed to happen.
If Xbox exits a market (consoles) to focus on another (games) I guess I don't care anymore. They lost the console market and pretty much the same companies that have been there before making games are still there flying a different flag. If they suck, other companies will eat their lunch by making better games.
How's this guy still around. According to him consoles were dying after ps2, ps3 Era.
Analysts are never wrong, the market just had a swift change for which no one could account.
In his Gametrailers past I’ve found Pachter to be friendly and entertaining. However he’s always blindly predicted Xbox success even up to the start of this generation. Now Pachter has adopted and repeated the new terminology of Microsoft, that it hasn’t lost the console war, it just wants more business. This is illuminating because it suggest he, like Tom Warren at the Verge, is inline with Microsoft’s PR strategy.
He was the only person who completely nailed how the ABK court case would play out. When everyone said the deal was dead, he said no and stood firm and said MS would do exactly what they did.
Did everyone say the deal was dead?
Most analytics said it would go through, but be delayed, which actually was the case.
Thing is, if fanboys understood business, they wouldn't be wasting their time commenting on gaming websites.
And you are here to lecture the rest of us because you understand business and MS is doing great?
Technically Microsoft is doing great, it's just not in gaming, OS and software (e.g. Microsoft Office) is where they're doing great business. I can't think of many other ventures they've had that has worked out for them, despite resorting to some of the same tactics that made them the dominate OS for computers.
Microsoft own things like Microsoft Office and Windows, games are secondary to them. If Xbox shut down the computer company will be ok
They only way that plan works is if people still want to play in their ecosystem.
Eventually, they’re ecosystem needs more games.
Helldivers 2 could swing Xbots to ps6 if it isn’t countered by the end of the gen.
Supposedly some well known Halo modders will be making a mode similar to Helldivers.
https://gamerant.com/halo-i...
Without procedurally generated levels, they’ll face the same problem as Destiny: fighting the same enemies in the exact same arenas does get repetitive eventually.
Helldivers succeeds as a GaaS because of its unusually well implemented use of procedural level creation. That, paired with its fun enemies to kill, makes it a GaaS with a long lifespan.
There is a pretty good chance that those with XB also have PS, but not the other way around.
What kind of Jedi mind tricks do you have to come up with to get through your day?
What is the point of always having to lie or make shit up just to win? It's like cheating to win how can you feel like you accomplished something?
I haven't bought an Xbox since the 360 days, just stuck with PC and PS, sometimes Nintendo.
"It would be great if people had to buy more of the thing," says guy who makes money selling the thing.
Nah should be optional. Not a PS fan but I like their strategy of selling an optional external optical drive. Its all about Options and this will let everyone get their way. Cheaper for digital only and then you can chose to pay more for the optical drive if that is important to you.
@Profchaos
But what he describes already exists in the 2 base models. If it is a rumor you can blame Microsoft for really backing it in court but if we are honest we all know it's true.
@Eonjay I'm not denying the appeal of it I can see it being a useful mechanism for allowing gamers to upgrade as needed however until there's concrete proof and not speculation and remember ms still bases that court submitted document off of the same leaks we see on Reddit, 4chan etc I just can't believe it.
The system would be further opened to exploitation and they would need to release an overpriced drive for consumers to buy for it and sure as they do we will hear complaints over the cost of it
Absolutely consoles don’t need disc drives. My house has 2 PS5 digital editions, one since launch. Zero issues with the lack of disc drives. In fact, the digital purchasing lets us all share each other’s games, usually mine, and play the same game at the same time on-line.
If they did then collectors wouldn’t be getting f***** over with discless collectors editions
Lmao
We are paying roughly the same now without the discs. There’s literally collectors editions which are roughly in the same price range that have a disc.
I’d rather pay a little more for something physical anyway
No shock, GameStop is alive because of trading. If they don't have used games on their shelves they are absolutely donezo.
Well of course the GS boss thinks this... that's their bread and butter business. That and funco pops and clothing, though those two were added as a means to supplement the decline in people buying used games or even new games. GS just sucks overall when it comes to gaming. I buy my physical stuff on Amazon or Best Buy.
As for "requiring" disc drives... nah. Not anymore, but i like having them as an option. They had a means back when games actually ran off the discs and were more/less complete. Now they are incomplete and the disc is really an installer with a license to play. If you want to change games you have to take out the disc and put in another. Its more convenient to just use digital. I have been into digital for years now and when the PSPortal comes along i wont even have to go into my game room. I will just play my PS5 from my couch downstairs. I have a bunch of digital installed games to my 5... I'm all set.
Gamingbible writes: "Luckily, if you’re living in the US you can trade your Xbox into Gamestop, where you’ll receive a hefty amount of cash as well as a $50 bonus for certain customers, just short of enough to buy the PS5."
Lol well, we tried. But you cant save a person from drowning if they wanna hold on to their fur coat.
Im kidding off course.
@Julion0715 @ichdich
So you guys won't change consoles?, give me reasons.
Your answers will probably explain why I'm so f**cking pissed off at Microsoft for buying two large mulitplatform publishers.
It isn't easy right? but you guys don't care because is not happening to you.
No thank you? N4G won't stand for this blasphemy!
SF releases next month hopefully that should give ppl incentive to keep their console. I know there's PC you can play there to but not everyone wants to play on PC.
@Hyper,
My guess is they love either their piece of plastic, their corporate overlords or gaming on the cheap.
Likely a combination...
@hyper
Gamepass and I have a gaming PC so, I can play all the Sony "exclusives " at a higher frame rate and graphical fidelity. Why would I trade my Xbox for PS5.
After adding ABK they will have even more games at a great value.
@bryan
By that same logic what would be the point of having an Xbox? If you have a pc that handles both ps5 and Xbox games you don’t need either.
@lex
I got my gaming PC last year to replace my old PC and I already had a XSX. It's pretty simple.
So, Zero horizon was disappointing and Spiderman/ miles ( got both for $50)are just ok. I might get R&C when it goes on sale.
@Hypertension
If I had time for a PS5 I would have bought a PS5 by now. I intend to someday, but at the moment my backlog is too big. Not only would I have to trade in all my games (for pennies on the dollar) and rebuy them for PS5, but Xbox actually finally has some exclusives coming out in the near future that interest me. I'll get a PS5 whenever Naughty Dog's next game comes out, at the latest.
@itsme
"I can play SOME the Sony "exclusives " years later. Some of them run better, some run worse." - Fixed
@bryan
Your logic is amazing.
Not even close to all the Playstation games is being released on PC, and if they are, it's years past release, and often in a state when PC masterrace people cries anyways.
By logic, you should have a PS5, a PC and maybe a Switch if you're into that crap.
Especially as 100% of the Xbox games is also release on the PC, day and day.
@Jin
Judging by the replies here some of these people don't prefer games :).
On topic, I wish I could trade in my xbsx for a steam deck!
What games? FFXVI is the only true exclusive PS5 has right now and that's going to PC eventually too.
Spider-Man 2 and there’s plenty of great games to play that released over the years. Can’t say the same for Xbox.
There's a pretty decent slate of games coming out this year for all platforms. Armored Core looks great, Mortal Kombat 1 looks great, the info we're getting on Tekken 8 has me thinking it's coming this year. Sea of Stars can't be slept in either. If we're just talking about PlayStation games, Spider-Man 2 and Stellar Blade are expected to release this year and both look great.
I believe jin-sakai has an Xbox Series X (I could be wrong), but I reckon they're interested in those games, along with Starfield. That aside, Mario Wonder, Super Mario RPG, Star Ocean, and Suikoden I and II are all very welcome titles for the rest of the year.
I think no matter what platform you're playing on, there's enough there to generate a backlog.
EDIT: How the hell did I forget Lies of P? 🤡
Darxyde
"Starfield. That aside, Mario Wonder, Super Mario RPG, Star Ocean, and Suikoden I and II"
Enough said. That's my game slate for the rest of the year.
That ain't a deal at all. Trading in a beast of a console for that, I don't think so.
It’s a beast alright. Lol
“Digital Foundry about XSX teraflops advantage : It's kinda all blowing up in the face of Xbox Series X“
I mean, I wouldn't trade in one console for another but instead buy both, prioritizing one over the other based on games I like.
That would be the obvious choice but some might only be able to afford one or the other. And you have fans who will only support their console of choice regardless.
The PS5 is a better deal in the end, I really can't see the appeal of sticking with the Xbox.
"A good deal for those who want a console with games."
Like what? After all that bravado, the only game you could name was one that isn't out yet (Spider-Man 2)
Don't get me wrong, the XSX lineup in pathetic. But lets not pretend that the PS5 is any better. You can count the number of console exclusives for both on one hand.
If you're looking at games announced with release windows, there's only one console to get as it stands if you want games and it's not the PS5.
PS5 has one slow year yes but they will start pumping out games soon and everyone knows the quality of their first party games are unmatched.
Did the Xbox get any legend of heroes games, alot of jrpg type games skip the Xbox so unless your not into those types of games Xbox isn't a good choice at all. Alot of us from what I see have stuck with sony for the longest because they've had a great jrpg catalogue from 3rd party developers that xbox just can't touch. Those of us that enjoy alot of different games will get both consoles , I bought my series x about two weeks ago for starfield. It will only get used for a game here or there, most likely anything rpg related.
Hard to tell who are in the Xbox Ambassador program from some of these comments. But for the masses, the console sales numbers are telling us which way the winds are blowing. XBox is in an important/pivotal moment right now imo
At this point in time If I didn't own a PS5 I would have done this in a heartbeat but I had already acquired a PS5 first before I acquired an XBSX.
I'll stick to keeping both. Gamestop though... seems kind of desperate to take in Series X units. What could they be plotting???
They make pure profit on used consoles. They don’t share any of it. And they’re generally only like $50-$100 cheaper than new.
So they “sell”a PS5, make their small cut from that. Then sell the refurbished Xbox and get to keep all of it. It’s win win. They get a small cut on PS5, and a large cut from the Xbox.
Could be two fold sell as much base ps5 stick before the slim or pro drop and resell the xsx for those after a starfeild machine
PS gamers buy games number one. And they make money off used consoles. It’s a double benefit for them
I just want some games for my series X I have both since release and after weighing the offerings in PS Essentials to Gamepass I quickly realized I Owned anything of worth in both catalogs. And, the things I didn't I didn't see as justifiable for maintaining both subs.
Since then my series X is a legacy machine that I play my old games on and that's it. 3 years ago I really thought from that Xbox showcase we were going to have some great games by now. Instead, it's just been a lot of meh
Yep. That's why I waited this generation to have a reason to buy the Series X. Got horribly burnt buying the Xbox One because I decided they had games I was interested in then they canceled the games I wanted right after.
Was tempted after they had that great showing awhile back and am glad I waited because it would have collected dust for 2 years otherwise. Couple games out and on the horizon that look pretty good. Might be a good purchase in a couple years.
Gamestop is the store i go to buy my gaming stuff
Perhaps digital distribution... which they do. Tough in a dying market like used games. Give it another console cycle and we'll see.
I like the answer he gave for Xbone. It's probably true.
What I will say and allot of other people say is their price on second games that have only been out a couple of months are way over priced
I was in on Sat one game was 48 euro new with all DLC and second hand was 44 so what's the point.
Saying that they take in all your games and if you put the money down on a PS4 ,not sure about Xbox 1, but I suppose its the same you get 25% extra on your trade in.
I traded in all my old games and old console and some Blu rays and PS4 is paid for.
Its all good in the Hood.