Digital Foundry: Hands-on with PS4 Games at E3 | 1080p60 dream, 30fps reality?

Digital Foundry" :It's Sony's time to shine. After a generation that kicked off with compromised multi-platform ports mixed in with some ground-breaking first-party efforts on PS3, there's a sense that it could retake a position of supremacy in the console arena by virtue of the new console's rock-solid core specs. And that's before we factor in the goodwill pouring out from enthusiast gamers because of its decision to stick with existing DRM standards. Unlike many of Microsoft's show-floor demos this E3, however, the use of genuine PS4 hardware among all developers also gives us a far more honest insight into the console's potential, despite making for a brace of nail-biting "will it? won't it?" moments during its conference."

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Lol no 60fps but graphics visuals are great.

[NewMonday]

Infamous Second Son even impressed the ever cynical Eurogamer, my hype for this game keeps building up.

[dcbronco]

Sounds like the Emotion Engine thing all over again. And Eurogamer has been riding Sony hard the last few months. If they have been cynical it would be about One.

[bicfitness]

http://gamingeverything.com...

"Sony actively pushing for 1080p, 60 FPS"

2nd crop of games will have this as a standard. At the risk of repeating myself, devs weren't aware of 8 GB GDDR5 until February. They were making engines to work on 2 GB or thereabouts. That would affect everything from texture quality to at what point/ or if vsync can be enabled.

Edit: "We leave Sony's E3 booth undoubtedly impressed, with two key takeaways in light of the Xbox One's rivalling offerings. Firstly, though almost all launch titles on show appear to be running directly from PS4 hardware."

That's the important bit. No smoke and mirrors or PCs with Titan cards. REAL demos.

[Convas]

Digital Foundry confirmed that Ryse, Forza 5, and Killer Instinct were running on actual Xbox One hardware.

[dcbronco]

Almost all is not all so one can assume the better ones are not. I will say it wasn't known that the would have 4 more gigs of RAM. But they know that now and they still say 60fps is a target, not a guarantee. If PS4 is soooo powerful, they should be saying games will be. MS is showing 1080p 60fps games. You can claim that they are not running on One hardware, but the same can be said for Sony games.

Hopefully once games start coming out Sony fans won't keep claiming that power advantage if One games are 1080/60 while PS4 games are 1080/30. Though I'm sure most will.

[TIER1xWOLFPACKx]

@convas it was reported though that killer instinct runs at 720p 60fps

[porter470]

the amount of RAM means nothing if the CPU and GPU can't process the data fast enough

[green]

@ TIER1xWOLFPACKx "it was reported though that killer instinct runs at 720p 60fps" that is false.

"The Xbox One hardware is visibly active, almost certainly pushing out 1080p at 60 frames per second. There is no tearing, and the only dips in response come from changing to each character's more effects-heavy ultra mode. Visually, the highlight is the crazy explosions of lit particles on the fireball-style fire attack from Jago, and the smashing slabs on the floor. We've never seen this excess of on-screen particles in the current generation of console hardware and the effect is fantastic."

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[bicfitness]

@ convas

And today we discovered THAT THERE IS NO ACTUAL X1 HARDWARE AND THAT EVEN THE "DEV KITS" ARE JUST PCS USING 700 SERIES NVIDIA CARDS.

http://n4g.com/news/1284981...

Read the whole article. Even Turn 10 was pulling a fast one. There is no way that final X1 games will look as polished as they do in a PC environment with a GPU and likely CPU (i7) of that magnitude. This will be worse than Kinect from announcement > output.

[No_Limit]

@bicfitness, Wrong!

your linked to the picture was the setup for a game called Lococycle that was the only game that ran on PC with Nvidia card because that game has yet to be ported to the Xbox1. The rest of the games for XB1, mostly third party games were running on Xbox One dev kits and not high end PCs. MS first party games like Forza 5, KI3, and Ryse were already seen and confirmed to be running on actual XB1 hardware.

Here is the link with pictures that debunked your story: http://www.forzacentral.com...
"The Xbox One games at E3 were running on Xbox One dev kits and not high end PCs. A particular developer showing off the game Lococycle did not finish porting their game to Xbox One so they ran their games on PCs at the event.
The lead for the developer below confirming they were the only ones at the event doing it and they were doing it on there own. There is another guy who was behind the scenes at E3 and said that the games were running on Xbox Ones and the crashes proved it. Another picture shows the game RYSE running on Xbox Ones on the floor and a video shows the UI run on a Xbox One showing off features on camera."

[Truehellfire]

Like Porter stated, RAM has nothing to do with rendering power. RAM is a completely different part of the architecture and does not directly effect framerates and rendering power.

[ABizzel1]

Killer Instinct is a 2D fighting game, Forza is a racing game and as expected most if not all racing games will be running 60fps.

"If the Xbox One can run it 1080p @ 60fps, then the PS4 can as well".

"If the PS4 struggles to run it 1080p @ 60fps, the the X1 will be 720p @ 60fps."

"If the PS4 struggles to run it 720p @ 30fps, the the X1 will be struggling to run the game at playable framerates."

[MikeMyers]

How can that be when N4G developers have been saying the PS4 is easy to develop for and 50% more powerful than the Xbox One?

2014 will be the year I buy a PS4. The launch line-up isn't all that impressive to me and some of the games I'm looking forward to like Infamous: Second Son won't be unt next year. This year the PS3 is looking really good.

[miDnIghtEr20C_SfF]

Uh oh... Next gen games at only 30fps so far? Some dipping into the 20's? Killzone with input lag again on the controls?

Well at least the games are going to look pretty to start with for the PS4... who needs or wants fast crisp controls anyways.

[starchild]

I told people not to expect 1080p/60fps on next gen consoles. We will probably see more 60fps games this gen than last, but the majority will be 30fps.

[No_Limit]

Wait, I thought the PS4 with its 8gb GDDR5, 1.84TFLOPS, 50% power advantage can do 120fps and 1080p on all games?? I kid, I kid. inFamous Second Son looks great, thought it was a launch title but that is one game I surely want when I purchase my PS4 next year. Next gen is almost here, great time!

[bicfitness]

You realize that PS developers didn't even know that they had 8 GB until February and many of these games were years in development. KZ: SF was initially made with 2-4 in mind. They can't just "presto" the whole engine to work with a greater pool of resources without building the game again.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Apparently all that was just PR and lies to hype the cosole. I knew something was fishy when every ps4 site kept posting that 50-60% more powerful. After all my experienve selling hi end audio video never buy product on paper specifications.

[Irishguy95]

Only people who don't understand what the 1.8TFLOPS and 8gb actually do...will attempt to say it means 1080p and 60FPS. Any game can easily be at that rez and FPS. However, visual fidelity will drop with it. Even Ps3 could run at that level...however...again, the games would not look 'next gen' at all.

Seriously, I mean..look at the comments "Devs didn't even know about the extra RAM". Yeah...so what? The extra RAM certainly won't be enough to have a drastic difference in FPS. Ram doesn't work that way...sure, why not rerelease the Ps3 with 8Gb GDDR5? I'm sure that could push out Kz: shadowfall visuals right? Geez. More RAM is not that significant, especially when the system had enough RAM to utilize the components in the first place. Sony stated it as straightforward as they could be, they only put in the extra 4GB's because MS had 8GB.

[tetsuhana]

They went with 8gb because that's what developers wanted.

http://www.playstationlifes...

[HiddenMission]

@Irishguy95

I think you're the one who doesn't understand what the 1.8 TFLOPS and 8 gigs of GDDR5 RAM actually does. One has to do with the amount of processing data and the other has to do with speed of which random data can be accessed.

Yes PS3 could run 1080p at 60 FPS hell they have a game that already does that. What this extra power does is make it so developers don't have to pick and choose as much with what added visual fidelity that they want included.

Give it another year or two of games on the PS4 and you will see most running in 1080p at 60 FPS.

Also like above pointed out they didn't go to 8 gigs because of MS they did it because of feedback from the devs.

Oh and by the way optimization of the hardware also plays a huge role...look at Uncharted 1 to the Last of Us same devs, same engine but the refinement made worlds of difference.

Not trying to attack you just trying to point out that those to tech specs actually have a drastic impact on the future performance of games.

[starchild]

Guys, quit saying that crap. It's ignorant.

If the PS4 is 50% more powerful and the Xbox One is the baseline developers have to target, that won't be enough of a performance gulf to reach 60fps on PS4.

For example, if one graphics card reaches 30fps on a certain game and another card is 50% more powerful that would mean that it would be averaging about 45fps on the same game.

Where do people get this idea that 50% more performance will give you twice the framerate?

[LightofDarkness]

Well, they're launch games, so these problems are to be expected. They didn't even have final hardware until the last month or so, so they obviously will have to optimize for the actual target hardware now.

I don't imagine any of the big exclusive launch titles will hit 60FPS, but they should be able to iron out any glitches and rendering artifacts while hitting a stable 30FPS.

inFamous looks to be the real deal, though. It may well be that "Gears of War" moment like last gen, the game that really shows us what's possible in this generation and clearly distinguishes itself from anything the previous console was capable of.

[Convas]

"When it comes to the state of software development on PS4, the situation as it stands is surprising. On the one hand, freely playable first-party titles such as Knack and DriveClub suffer from noticeable frame-rate stutters down from 30fps, while on the other, "hands off" demos for the new Infamous and Assassin's Creed games appear to run without a perceptible hitch. This is in stark contrast to the playable software confirmed to be running direct from Xbox One hardware, such as Forza Motorsport 5 and Killer Instinct, which benefit to no end for targeting the 1080p60 gold standard, and largely succeed in doing so."

Infamous: SS sounding like the most solid of the PS4 games right now and it's not even a launch title. D:

[windblowsagain]

Seems like early days for alot of these games on the PS4, alot of them are most likely new engines that are not tuned at all.

Evolution devs stated they were finding it strange to come from PS3 code.

V-sync @30fps means it can go higher but it's being held.

Of course v-sync at 60fps would be sweet.

I thought forza5 looked great as did ryse and killer instinct. How long have these games been in production i don't know. And maybe DX helps.

But i look forward to seeing what's on offer.

[wishingW3L]

Everybody no matter if you have a 1080p TV or a 720p TV will benefit from the 1080p resolution in newer games because of the super sampling. So to me it'd be better if they aim for high resolutions first and then if they have enough juice left then go for higher frame-rate.

[givemeshelter]

I think there will be plenty of disappointed console gamers this coming generation when many games won't run 1080p@60fps.

[ebreda]

Well, from Eurogamer reports, most of XOne games are already running at 1080p60. It's the PS4 that's somewhat behind in comparison.

It's a little worrying, imo, when a much faster hardware in specs sheets underperforms when running actual demos.

[starchild]

MOST games won't. It will be a few here and there that do.

[faizanali]

Just like every gen, resolution increases, frame rates don't.

[Heavenly King]

The devs still have time for optimization. And also this demos are not based on the final build of the games. The final game will offer great visual fidelity and steady frame-rate.

For example, KZ:SF story-mode is already complete (dont know about MP though); so they will just continue to tweak and optimize the engine to take advantage of the PS4 until a month or so before the game launches.

[ExitToExisT]

I am highly disappointed with this.
I am playing every game at 1080p + 60 fps at my PC (also conntected it to HDTV and i play it x360 gamepad)

So what does next gen consoles have to offer for me other than exclusives? Nothing.

I was hoping to go back to playing all games on one console. But i do not accept playing at 25-30 fps.

[aquamala]

Killzone

When it comes to the tricky issue of control and response, Killzone: Shadow Fall currently delivers a largely 25-30FPS experience with v-sync engaged, where a long overview of the forest tests the hardware most.A strong trace of input lag is felt when turning the analogue sticks - a quirk that hangs over from the Killzone 2 days

DriveClub
Unfortunately, this higher resolution only amplifies the low quality, blurry, flat-looking textures used across this level, which would easily look at home on current-gen hardware.

Knack

That's the next-gen hook, but little else is in place to enthrall. The Pixar aesthetic is let down by some muddy image quality, and heavily dithered shadows.

Thief

When it comes to performance, the game is v-synced, but very jittery in the frame-rate stakes for transitions into new areas, and throughout an entire sequence where a bridge burns to cinders

[GamePeace]

A few Launch titles will be 1080p and 30fps, in 1-2 years all Ps4 games will be 1080p and 60fps. Like Planetside 2 on Ps4, while PC was 30fps with GTX 680. They will optimate the games time to time better.

[faizanali]

Are you serious?

[GamePeace]

Well, as Long as this Feature remains.

"The PS4 sees Sony move to a 64-bit x86 chip architecture, which will be music to the ears of developers, especially those used to working on PC games. The good news doesn’t stop there, though. Developers will be able to take advantage of Microsoft’s latest industry standard DirectX API — DirectX 11.1, but Sony has taken the time to improve upon it, pushing the feature set beyond what is available for PC games development.

Those improvements include better shader pipeline access, improved debugging support features out the box, and much lower level access to the system hardware enabling developers to do “more cool things.” That’s achieved not only through an modified DirectX 11.1 API, but also a secondary low-level API specifically for the PS4 hardware."

Last line is my favourite.

http://www.geek.com/games/s...

[wishingW3L]

best part:

"Sony's new controller is a marvel in ergonomic design, and by our reckoning the most improved of the two next-gen pads."

[wishingW3L]

another quote FTW:

"It takes a seriously impressive game to make jaws drop at Digital Foundry - Sucker Punch's latest was the biggest surprise for us."

[No_Limit]

LOL, are you trying to put the readers attention away from the 30fps topic now? I want to know more about Killzone's performance and not about the DS4. :/

[GamePeace]

Controller part wasn't important for me, only the technical side of the story. Controller design is not relevant, even if they hype "the ergonomic design", from the technical side... this are the facts, how I wrote them. Deal with it.

[Drekken]

OMG!! ALPHA VERSIONS ARE NOT OPTIMIZED!!! LETS WRITE AN ARTICLE.

[sourav93]

Yes everyone knows that Alpha versions are poorly optimised, but there's nothing wrong in letting the public know what it runs like. They're not saying "Oh ma dayyzz killz0ne runs at 25 fps - the game is failz. PS4 is failz! " They ARE admitting that a lot of optimization is still required. Now, if this type of performance is seen in the retail versions, then we can start to worry.

[Drekken]

Well I think it is just stupid to even bring this up. No crap its not optimized. The game isn't due out for 5 months.

[faizanali]

Where's your 8GB GDDR5 RAM now?