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Can We Pinpoint The Origin Of Final Fantasy's Depressing Decline?

Where did the fall begin? Can we trace the ongoing slide of one of the industry's greatest franchises back to its origins? Did it really begin with FFXIII?

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NatureOfLogic3974d ago

FFXII was the first one that felt different for me.

TRGMatt3974d ago

I'll never agree with the word "decline" being used in reference to Final Fantasy. They have evolved, and perhaps evolved away from what everyone WANTS...but they are brilliant in their own right to many of us who are still able to appreciate them, perhaps with more of an open mind than most.

Mr_Nuts3974d ago

I wish I was that accepting because the only good thing about FF13 was the visuals/graphics.

fathoms3974d ago

What Final Fantasy is doing is not "evolving." Not all the fans are just blind fools who live in the past. They'd love great games that have "evolved;" in fact, all they're getting is a series that's moving farther and farther away from ROLE-PLAYING (which is what FF was supposed to be), for the purpose of catering to a crowd (the casual, twitch-gamer crowd), who doesn't even LIKE role-playing.

And above all else, Square Enix completely and entirely ignored the fans. They've ignored those fans for years. Nothing about that is "evolving." And if it was evolving, sales numbers would be rising, not falling.

TRGMatt3973d ago (Edited 3973d ago )

Final Fantasy Sales according to VGchartz:

VII - 10 million
VIII - <8 million
IX - 5 million
X - 8 million
XII - 6 million
XIII - 7 million

Sounded better when you didn't use numbers, didn't it? :p

And lest we forget that 4 less than 3 million, and 6 sold less than 5 million...both considered some of the best titles ever in the series.

13 was a fantastic game in many peoples' minds. The gameplay has evolved over the years. Battles are no longer simple menu commands, they are a rather complex selection tactics, especially in 13-1. Such a great game...I'll agree to disagree with people like you for all eternity.

fathoms3973d ago

Too bad you've overlooked one critical fact: The rapid growth of the gaming industry.

There were only a tiny fraction of gamers in the world when FFVI was released, and even when all the PS1 FFs released, as compared to today.

It's the percentages that matter. Final Fantasy used to be a giant title and it also used to be widely revered. How's about you scratch together review scores for those games? Or are critics just too stupid to understand "evolving?"

Or rather, do they recognize the decline as easily as every FF fan on the planet does?

TRGMatt3973d ago (Edited 3973d ago )

Again, I just gotta disagree. I don't recognize the decline and I have been an FF fan since Final Fantasy "II" graced my SNES. A large portion recognizes a decline that I simply do not see. THey are all great games and have gotten better in relation to the tools available with better hardware IN MY OPINION. I realize I am of a minority in this perspective but it is what it is. While the rest of you find it hard to believe that anyone could see greatness in these games, I find it equally hard to believe that you all don't. I chalk it up to the fact that we're not robots with the same brains, who get different value out of different things.

FF12 and 13 both have given me goosebumps in multiple playthroughs the same way that VII and VI did. I guess it's just personal preference but I HOPE that Square keeps doing what they're doing: Bucking the status quo and actually bringing ingenuity to a genre that is quickly becoming cookie cutter much like FPS' are.

fathoms3972d ago

Watering down a genre to the point where it doesn't even resemble role-playing anymore isn't "evolving." And I never said there wasn't ANY greatness in those games. I actually think FFXII was fantastic, just in a completely different way.

And that's the point. FFXII wasn't like any other FF before it, but it was still an RPG. It was still a defining title. That DID evolve. Since then, it has been nothing but a regression because Square Enix got trapped in the "we have to find a way to cater to the Call of Duty-loving Western crowd" mentality. The stories take a hit, the gameplay takes a hit, etc.

Have you even seen Lightning Returns? How in God's name is THAT a true RPG? How is that "evolving?" I think it's telling that nobody - and I mean NOBODY - who has loved FF all their lives wants that game. And I wouldn't expect high review scores, either. As for sales, like I said, several million in sales 15-20 years ago is an entirely different thing. And by the way, FFXIII-2 didn't sell much more than half of what FFXIII sold, last I checked.

It's not going in the right direction. I'm glad you like the games and your opinion is your opinion. Doesn't change the downward spiral fact.

dedicatedtogamers3974d ago

The fall began with FF7. The author laughs this off (but doesn't actually explain why). Here's why:

FF7 began the Age of Production Values™. Prior to that, Final Fantasy was known for it's excellent storytelling, believable dialog, believable characters, etc. I'm not saying FF7 is a bad game. Not at all. It's a rather good game, but its success (and continued popularity) made Squaresoft think "hmmm, we don't need to have good writing or good characters. We just need to have flashy visuals, crazy cutscenes, and off-the-wall environments and enemies".

They did that with FF10 and guess what happened? FF10 is probably the second-most beloved game in the franchise.

Godmars2903974d ago

Yep. Prior to FF7 it was about making a world which characters both fit in, and could become larger in order to save it. Though FF7 still fit the category, it lead to FF8 which was mess in several ways.

fathoms3974d ago

I would like you to explain to me how the downright painful and even laughable writing of FFVI was superior to FFVII. "Believable dialogue?"

...you've GOT to be kidding me. It was written by the programmers in those days. LOL

It had nothing whatsoever to do with production values. FFVII is not beloved and widely considered to be the greatest in the franchise because of flashy things. That's entirely untrue. It's because character development greatly outstripped the amateur-ly displayed characters in the 16-bit era. And the world...? Not even close in terms of design.

I know we all want to see the oldest FFs as representations of pure greatness. But those rose-tinged glasses of nostalgia will sink you every time.

jjb19813974d ago

It started with FFXI. That's when the storytelling took a sharp turn for the worst. Boooooooo.

DOMination-3974d ago

For me it started with FFX. No proper world map, linear corridors to get from one city to another, terrible voice acting, lightning bolt dodging... it did have a great battle system though.

70°

The 7 Best Final Fantasy Characters: Unveiling the Legends

While FFVII ranks highly, there's more to the series than one game. Here's Chit Hot's picks for the seven best Final Fantasy characters.

220°

The older it gets, the more I respect Final Fantasy XIII

Alex Donaldson: "Hindsight is a hell of a thing, however, and in the years since Final Fantasy XIII, my respect for the decisions its developers made has skyrocketed. In the two Final Fantasy titles since we see both the brilliance and the folly in alternative approaches - and in Final Fantasy VII Remake, we get a more nuanced understanding of what FF13 was trying to accomplish from many of the same development leads."

Einhander1972119d ago

FFXIII is actually one of the best Final Fantasy games.

I also sort of was disappointed at the time, never as much as the bandwagon. But really all the fantastic 3D rendered cutscenes and I actually liked the characters and the story though convoluted was actually fantastic and the ending was extremely emotional. So much budget and time were put into that game Square had such big plans, I actually have always felt kind of bad for how things played out.

I have been thinking for years how great it would be to get all three games on one disk for PS4 or 5.

Nyxus119d ago

I always liked this game, and I agree, a rerelease for current gen would be nice.

Shane Kim118d ago (Edited 118d ago )

Gotta take off the nostalgia glasses. It's the worst FF. Shiva as a bike, I mean come on.

Elda118d ago

Shiva as a bike is strange but saying FFXIII is the worst FF is not at all a fact, that's simply your opinion.

Terry_B117d ago

*One of the 3 equally bad FF's

DivineHand125118d ago (Edited 118d ago )

When I got my series X a year ago, I bought FF13 for nostalgia reasons but ended up being disappointed. When I first played it around the time it launched, I didn't have a lot of experience with final fantasy games, so I enjoyed it. Fast forward to when I played it again, I found that the game had many unnecessary filler moments instead of just giving us meaningful content.

The game is also very linear and a quote on the article said it best. "It is like a sewage pipe that leads to the ocean until it opens up on Grand Pulse."

The story didn't make much sense either and I believe it is my mistake as I played the FF7 remake on PS5 prior which is a night and day difference in terms of pacing, storytelling and likeable characters even though cloud is aloof.

FinalFantasyFanatic117d ago (Edited 117d ago )

Probably was a mistake to play any of the golden era FFs first (e.g. FF6 through FF10), it makes it harder to enjoy some of the FFs that aren't as good. I think FF12 was where major issues with the series started becoming apparent, and it just got worse from there.

FinalFantasyFanatic117d ago (Edited 117d ago )

I didn't really care for it that much, the only saving grace was that it had a better story than 15 (overall it was better than 15) and possibly 12, and even then, you had to read some of it through primers, like reading a book. Plus the battle system was reasonably fun for what it was, even if it was more the spectacle that was exciting for me (e.g. summoning). And to be fair, the 13 trilogy got better with every games, I still don't like Snow though.

Gamingsince1981117d ago

Ff13 is only good if you haven't played a ff before, or any other games that are decent for that matter.

-Foxtrot117d ago

It is in fact no way the best Final Fantasy game, it's one of the worst

Linear corridors, Cutscene, Fight, Cutscene...rinse and repeat

Dialogue and characters are pretty bad, especially Lightning as the main FF hero, they literally said they tried to make a "Female Cloud" and they failed.

Story was pretty awful

I could go on

I think the only alright thing that came from the game was the music.

Elda117d ago

That's not a fact that's your personal opinion. The game sold 11 million copies between its 2009 release up until 2014 including critically reviewed as an 8 out of 10 or an 80 out of 100. The game does have some issues but it's not at all a fact as one of the worst FF games.

-Foxtrot117d ago

Elda

Not just mine mate

A large majority

So….

Traecy117d ago

N4G commenters such as yourself aren't the majority. The game was well received.

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gold_drake119d ago (Edited 119d ago )

i liked the game alot but i didnt like how they handled the terminology.

i dont mind reading data logs but it had soo many.

but i always loved the music and how it looked. the battle system wasnt too bad either.

but i like 13-2 more :)

i still dont understand why we never got a remaster of the trilogy

Eonjay117d ago

Xbox kinda did. Besides the video files of course which are still best on PS3 due to bluray.

Snookies12119d ago

XIII is a pretty solid game, but XIII-2 is WAY better. XIII-2 was one of the few games I decided to go for a Platinum trophy in, early on. Had so much fun the entire way through getting it too!

Eonjay117d ago

Totally agree. FF 13 was okay but 13-2 is my favorite FF game ever.

shinoff2183119d ago (Edited 119d ago )

I hated this to when it released. I haven't much liked a ff game since ff10 as much , aside from ff7remake. I decided to give it another shot on my series x since it's not on a current ps and was liking it quite a bit(just takes me some time to get over things ) until star ocean 2 remake came out I was all over that.

Square should definitely remaster it or something for ps4 ps5

KillerB118d ago

my favorite jrpg trilogy ever

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70°

Interview: Making music with Masashi Hamauzu

Square Enix Blog: "How do you compose iconic songs that help define a legacy? We speak to legendary composer Masashi Hamauzu about his work on Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy XIII, and Final Fantasy VII Remake, and how to make unforgettable music."

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