Naughty Dog will use existing Uncharted, The Last of Us engine for PS4

By Matthew Reynolds

Naughty Dog will keep its existing in-house engine used in Uncharted and The Last of Us for the PS4, the developer has revealed.

Game director Bruce Straley explained how it won't repeat past mistakes of developing a new engine from scratch for a new console generation, as it did when it started work on Uncharted for the PS3.

"We learned a big lesson coming from PS2 to PS3," he told Digital Spy.

"There was a lot of hype over what next-gen was going to be. It was all going to be like movies, like a pre-rendered cutscene-style fidelity.

"That turned out not to be true. Granted, what we're able to do now is pretty damn close, but it took Naughty Dog four games to get there - one of the top developers in the industry with some on the most amazing scientists working in our programming department."

[yewles1]

How stupid. It wasn't a mistake to make a new engine for PS3, they were forced to learn C/C++ because GOOL and GOAL wouldn't work like it did on the PS1 and PS2 respectively. Now they don't have to worry about different languages this time.

[GribbleGrunger]

Yewles1, I agree. It's clear from their track record that ND don't know what they're doing ...

Something tells me this will become a popular thread in the next couple of hours. Then when ND show they're PS4 games, many faces will be wearing egg.

[rainslacker]

It's pretty apparent from the first thread, that neither the people that are OK with it, or the people who aren't have any idea what it means, or what they even have to do to get it to work on new architecture.

In ND case, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and just change the assemblers to write the appropriate code.

Since most of the backbone stuff will work the same way, and is likely written in C/C++ to begin with, all that has to change is the assembly language that may be tied directly to the CELL processes, or PS3 specific hardware.

There's no real reason to rewrite all the frameworks or software environment of the game engine if it suits their needs.

[TrevorPhillips]

I trust Naughty Gods no matter what, they are an excellent company!

[GoldenElf]

Who the hell cares? If they can make a good game using their existing stuff, good for them. Engines don't matter, the gameplay is what's important.

[OrangePowerz]

Having a new engine for PS3 wasn't really a mistake given the jump into HD, better AI, physics and so on. I don't think they could have achieved what they did with Uncharted if they used the PS2 engine.

Wonder how the engine will work on the PS4 given it is fully optimized for the cell with ovloading a lot of the tasks to the extra units.

[MikeyDucati1]

Are you kidding me? The same engine? People are making excuses for their beloved ND. First it's about graphics and engines...now they don't care because gameplay is important. Bologna sandwiches.

[kevinsheeks]

I kind of get what your saying but they do make decent games so i guess for them it can sort of slide

but yeah I can name a few companies that would get chewed out for this very same action

[tehpees3]

Completely agree! The double standard going on here is stupid. Wii U uses existing engines and its under-powered, outdated and weak. PS4 uses existing engines and because they work for Sony in Naughty Dog we trust.

People kept preaching "NEW GEN = NEW ENGINES!" since Wii U was announced. What happened to that?

[Gimmemorebubblez]

That's because the WiiU is Nintendo's 1st HD console. They shouldn't be using engines from the SD era. The Ps4 is Sony's 2nd HD console and can thereby utilise high powered graphics engines of the Ps3, if the Ps4 was 4k then I would agree but the Ps4 is continuation of the Ps3's HD while Nintendo's WiiU is a represents a massive jump from the Wii.

[sway_z]

Last of Us engine was made to be scalable....

I am sure ND knew all about PS4 whilst developing TLOU.

[GamerzElite]

If "New Gen = New Engines" then why peoples are crying about BC?

[MysticStrummer]

Who said WiiU was underpowered because it uses existing engines? It's underpowered because it's "next gen" yet is comparable in power to last gen.

If Sony was working on PS4 as long ago as we've read (2007), there's no reason why Naughty Dog couldn't have been aware what the general plan was and made their engine scaleable.

The weird part to me is that PS3 and PS4 have such different architecture, yet can use the same engine.

[its_JEFF]

@tehpees3

The only problem with your argument is that we've seen those Wii U games, do they look significantly better? We've seen the newly "upgraded" COD engine, does it look that much more amazing?

Do people give COD the solder for just upgrading their old engine? No, do you know why? COD has basically had the same engine for years and years now, it looks okay but nothing spectacular. What are the games ND has produced? Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us. How do they look? Really good!

I think people are giving ND the past based on past performance, is that wrong? Has their past game not continue to look better and better?

[zebramocha]

For people who doubt ND,not the best footage but they pulled this of on the ps3.good character models,nice animations and lighting.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[zebramocha]

And this.

http://kineticninja.blogspo...

[MikeyDucati1]

Yea an old engine on PS3. I'm still not impressed. For the architecture that PS4 has, they could at least generate a new engine. But hey, it saves them money for more profit. If they were really about the fans, they would generate a new engine. But nooooo, they are going the COD route.

And I still say the same. Any other dev would have gotten downright pooped on for saying such blasphemous words. Now people are practically giving them a pass and doing what you doing...showing current gen tech that "look's amazing". We could do better

[joeorc]

"Yea an old engine on PS3. I'm still not impressed. For the architecture that PS4 has, they could at least generate a new engine. But hey, it saves them money for more profit. If they were really about the fans, they would generate a new engine. But nooooo, they are going the COD route."

really? there is people even asking this? Ok let me ask you Question? what are Game'S developed on? are they designed on the console? or a PC with SDK tool chains loaded on?

why the hell would ND have to change an ENTIRE Engine right now if the PS4 is using the exact same freaking engine that the PC'S with the SDK'S ARE ON? YOU DO NOT CHANGE THE ENGINE YOU ADD TOOL CHAINS, MIDDILEWARE TO IT THAT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ITS HARDWARE!

Better yet just because they are using the same engine does not mean they do not have very specifically made tool chain API's made just for the PS4...

you and other's do know Mark Cerny is one of the people there, that helps make tool's for the games going into the PS3 AND NOW THE PS4!

think about that for a sec, the PS3's hardware was hard to develop for , but yet ND had tool's made for the PS3 that no one else made for the PS3 , and the games shown that, do you really think ND is not going to do the same for the PS4?

Have you even listened to Cerny in interviews about why he does this? Cerny even has a freaking development method named after him! and you and other's really think he's not going to push the hardware of the PS4, to see what it can do?

[OrangePowerz]

Well let's be fair if you compare Uncharted 1 with the sequels they made a huge jump in graphics. So if they can further tweak and improve and get the same results as other devs that use a new engine why not?

It's not like CoD that is using an Engine that's from the stone age of gaming. Other devs like Dice dont have a new engine either, because Frostbite 3.0 is an improved version of the previous one.

[KrystofKage]

You haven't read the article, and I doubt you know shit about programming.

Same engine? Yes, as the article says, to keep the great AI and rendering system intact. That wouldn't change next gen at this stage regardless. As for pumping more power into it, that will get a major overhaul.

Dumping the engine and starting from scratch would be pointless, considering what they've accomplished. The Unreal Engines are never new engines, they are upgrades to the previous iteration. And it's one of the best game engines at this time.

[rainslacker]

Is someone mad that ND PS4 games on their "old" engine will still look better than PS4 COD games on their "new" engine?

Can I get you your blankie?

[LackTrue4K]

"go on, eat your bologna sandwich"

[MikeyDucati1]

One post sparks it all. I'm glad to have been the catalyst for the talks. But ease up on trying to insult me. I do not appreciate such childish efforts. Explain the matter, but the bashing my head against the wall will have me respond to you in kind. How can you know all about the technical but fail in the social aspect? Hmmm, interesting.

@rainslacker don't be an idiot. I'm no kid for one. And I'm not a COD fan.

And I don't care who you are (you bandwagon hoppers). The same existing engine is just terrible. Cause another dev can showcase their engine on the new game and it would look better. Last gen tech engine on a new gen console, that's terrible. I don't care who you are

[M-M]

It's probably about time and how long it would take to make a new engine. They're able to push amazing graphics on a 7 year old console, so bringing it over to the PS4 would mean increasing the boundaries that were limited by the PS3's hardware.

[Kinger8938]

Its not like they need a new engine from what ive played and seen from them they know what they are doing, whereas people will say a game like cod would benefit from an actual new engine as it looks rather dated now, naughty dogs engine still looks ahead of the curve imo

[PCGamingNoobs]

the engine still looks like one of the best around so why not, just on the ps4 they can pop it ot 1080p and 60fps. no need for a new engine for a few years yet from these guys.

[colonel179]

I don't think this is good news. Granted, I know nothing about programming, but if everyone is saying that developing for PS4 is too easy, then why not make a new engine to raise the bar like they did with Uncharted?

I am not sure what this would mean for a new game from Naughty Dog and what would it end up being. Feels like what they are saying is that a new game from them will be always stuck as a cross-generational game, and that's never good. While it might impress at the beginning, just look at Resistance or even Heavenly Sword (while still looks good, is nothing as great by today's standards)

Hopefully that will only be for their first game which probably will be Uncharted 4, and then they do get to do a better engine to let us know how they can squeeze PS4 power like they did with The Last of Us.

[CaEsAr-]

I don't know about programming too. But one thing I'm sure of is that making a new engine is going to take a lot of time.

[Bakkies]

I believe the Uncharted engine is a well oiled machine, yet an engine optimized for the cell cores is foreign to the x86 architecture PS4 will use. So essentially they'll have to reprogram the core of the engine. That core will hopefully suck all the power out of the hardware.

But the leap from the PS2 to the PS3 was much greater than from PS3 to PS4. So I personally don't remotely expect a jump graphically like with, for instance, Ridge Racer 5/Summoner to Motorstorm/Heavenly Sword.

[Zool 08]

@ Colonel, It takes time at least a couple of years to develop a new game engine and cost a lot of money and then getting the engine to run on a new or different console that's also going to be difficult in spite of it having a better processor or RAM because if the engine fails then they're going to have to start again, then you have to create a game and that's going take time and cost a lot of money.

In Naughty Dogs case it makes more sense for them to use the existing engine that actually works perfectly for them for at least a few more years to come and concentrate on making great games in less time without any unnecessary distractions on creating a new engine and can use the existing one to optimize on the PS4 instead.

[Mookie]

And still not letting other devs use the engine

[WeAreLegion]

Like who?

Santa Monica?
San Diego?
Quantic Dream?
Media Molecule?
Sucker Punch?

They've all built insane engines, too.

[RandomDude655]

Just found this about their ps2 engine:

Seems like ps4 will be a better transition for the Naughty Gods

1. GOAL sucks! While it's true that GOAL gave us many advantages, GOAL caused us a lot of grief. A single programmer (who could easily be one of the top ten Lisp programmers in the world) wrote GOAL. While he called his Lisp techniques and programming practices "revolutionary," others referred to them as "code encryption," since only he could understand them. Because of this, all of the support, bug fixes, feature enhancements, and optimizations had to come from one person, creating quite a bottleneck. Also, it took over a year to develop the compiler, during which time the other programmers had to make do with missing features, odd quirks, and numerous bugs.

http://www.gamasutra.com/vi...

[yewles1]

That "single programmer" was Andy Gavin, co-founder of Naughty Dog.

[Zool 08]

In ND we trust

[Wizziokid]

It's ND so I have faith

[CBaoth]

Remember how they ruled the roost on PS2? Then in the effort to save time for the PS3 launch, they decided to port over their PS2 engine. Worked great for a couple games (Resistance and R&C), after that not so much. Console gamers chose flash over substance, and Insomniac were forced to re-think the higher graphical fidelity versus framerate argument.

A poster on Reddit recently asked Ted Price about returning to 60FPS in the next gen 5/11/2013:

"Very good question. I frankly don't know if we'll go back to 60fps. It has its pluses and minuses. It seems like our fans have been pretty happy with Resistance, the new Ratchets and Fuse at 30fps - we can certainly do more on screen at that frame rate..."

Seems they've been playing catch up ever since R2. As much as I like ND, the future is an unknown commodity. I hope for the best too but....

[windblowsagain]

I think most people would like a new engine.

I Suppose it depends on how much they can add to it.

ON PS4.

The engine would allow for any textures they would like quality wise, cleaner everything, 1080p, more anim, physics.

The jump from PS2 to PS3 engine change was needed.

[andreasx]

Seeing how amazing TLOU looks i really dont care if they dont make a next gen engine, because i know ND will blow us away anyway

[koston3647]

No worries here.

[WeAreLegion]

Some engines are fine-tuned for years and years. If the engine is versatile enough for quality PS4 games, that works for me.

[noorbert]

I would expect ND to push boundaries as much as possible. But if next Uncharted can stand proudly next to UE4 games,then i dont care. But if Sony's best studio is getting lazy, its never good thing. I just dont see how they can stay on top visualy if they will be using old engine.

[Caffo01]

I love ND, they're my favourite devs.
With that said, i'm a little disappointed :/

[BabyTownFrolics]

this is the most reasonable and unbiased comment on this thread

[Kennytaur]

They update it for every single game they make, so I'm sure it'll be fine. And having a familiar work environment will only help development.

[Drainage]

but COD is doing the same as people shit on them for it

[SlavisH2]

N4G, nuff said. If it involves sony it gets a pass. I hope these people know there is a different world outside this website. I like ND to be honest. I am still disappointed. Im sure they will make a new engine during the ps4 life cycle

[strigoi814]

I trust them..but still in the back of my head in time i know they will somehow find a way to try another set of engine to be more stellar

[madjedi]

Is it unsurprising that alot of previous gen engines would carry over to the next gen initially, i would think 2-4 yrs into the gen, you would see alot of engines being overhauled/revamped.

Cod Ghosts is still using the same engine, sorry considering nd has consistently raised the bar with each of their releases, i'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

If anyone needs a new engine with the generation transition it's cod and a new one for bethesda wouldn't hurt.

[Voiceofsoi]

If it were any other dev, I'd be worried. It'll be a sad, sad day when Naughty Dog releases a game that isn't impressive. Everyone already expects so much of them.

[0pie]

i prefer naughty dog engine than Call of duty engine who once run game like quake 3....

[GameCents]

Sheeeeeeeep!

[stage88]

Great news! Can't wait for their PS4 game.

[sway_z]

People are asking how the PS4 can use PS3 developed engines if the architecture is so different...?

In layman terms..

Games are initially programmed on PC's and the code is compiled and then converted to run using the host hardware's development tools. So, it begins with a PC & powerful workstations.

ND only need return to the raw code libraries and by-pass the conversion process to PS3 and tune to the PS4.

It's not as simple as I have explained it, but you get the gist.

AS for COD Ghosts....Activision have recycled the same engine for over 9 years in spite of mass profits. I don't think it's fair to compare ND to Activision.

#ps4playsgames

[TurboGamer]

There is only one problem with this. The PS3 and PS4 architectures are completely different and at this point the engine is so optimized for the PS3's architecture (they even uses asm for the CELL) that it would take a major rewrite of the engines code to work on the PS4. This could result in non-optimal and very messy code(lots of bugs!). Porting a engine made for the CELL processor to a x86 processor is a bad idea.

[Oh_Yeah]

We have not seen the true power of this engine, with PS4 will be able to see what it's truly capable of. Think guys, open world games with uncharted graphics, even better linear graphics, more memory for improved ai, physics, etc which are already pretty good on the ps3.

[twoq]

Where are you, Amy Hennig?

[PirateThom]

I feel like some people here think "same engine = same graphics", it doesn't.

If Naughty Dog are smart, which they are, they'll have made a scalable engine that will work on PS4 to a higher fidelity.

Consider PC game settings, it's the same engine, but it's just scaled for different set ups, it's a similar situation.

[Jdoki]

The argument that if people are critical of an updated CoD engine they should also criticise an updated ND engine is ridiculous.

One developer produces world class graphics for a specific console, and has used the same engine all generation and the graphics have got significantly better with each game. Plus, they are a critical element in the Sony ICE Team so already has deep knowledge of the PS4 hardware. It's safe to say they know their shit.

The other developer has a cross platform engine that was showing it's age 5 years ago. They have shown their update to be a big, but not mind blowing step forward. And their focus is to continue allowing them and their partners to quickly create shovelware. (Or has CoD become cool again all of a sudden?)

There's no comparison.

But if ND show a game that is graphically inferior to Killzone etc, then yeah, lets pile on.

[Jughead3416]

I was a little disappointed to read that they would only make enhancements to their already existing engine. While Unharted 2 and 3, and The Last Of Us are all among the best looking games on PS3, I would have loved to see what they could do with a brand new engine. COD Ghost's enhanced engine is just ok, but it honestly still looked current gen to me. I hope Naughty Dog can truly make a next gen game with that engine. I'm sure whatever they make will look awesome and I will probably buy it on Day 1, but I guess we'll have to wait a few years for a brand new engine from them.

[floetry101]

I've always thought the argument against the Call of Duty games was silly and it's further vindicated by the fact that great developers like using dynamic engines, regardless of how old they are. Look at Valve and Rockstar. Look at how little Crytek has achieved despite the fact that they frequently upgrade their engine. Yes, Call of Duty always looks the same, you know why? Because it appeals to a market that expects the experience to be a certain way, every single time. You think Call of Duty has people clinging to it because of the visuals? Do you think you would play another Call of Duty with an updated engine ANYWAY? It comes down to the core experience.

[jcnba28]

Same engine? I hope they know what they're doing. I guess we won't see much of a graphical improvement on the ps4.

[Jdoki]

Do PC developers create a new engine every time we have a new generation of GPU...

I could have sworn we're on Frostbite 3, Unreal Engine 4 etc, and yet we've seen multiple generations of GPU... Hmm, something not stacking up here I think!!

Perhaps it's that people don't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to technical discussions... 'Oh noez, teh ND are gimpzing their gamez On PS4'

[sashimi]

I can't take some of these comments seriously comparing the CoD engine with UC/TLOU engine as if they are in the same situation.

One is a multiplatform engine that hasn't looked good since 5 years ago while the other is consistently pushing the boundaries of technical and graphical achievement on consoles and wins so many awards ND can't even keep track.

ND knows what they are doing imo and i have faith they will continue releasing quality games that'll push hardware.

CoD i'm sure will look the same as it has the past 6 years lol.

[pandehz]

Valve, ND and Dice I can close my eyes and buy your games.

[Ninjamonkey82]

ND's engine as it is would look sweet on a gaming PC now. Give them Next gen tech to work with they are gonna blow peoples minds.

That is the difference between them and Activison right there they push the hardware. If this was a COD game you would still be find walls that where in the first game and buildings etc because he dev was to lazy to build new designs.

That's just one off the many reason the PS4 is a most buy.

http://gyazo.com/ebdf535b87...

[ChiaPet]

It's quite enjoyable to see all of the positive comments when we all know that half the people in this comment section have already ripped apart CoD for using the same engine (rightfully so). Just remember that your favorite system's first party games don't have to be immaculate

[wampdog29]

This is exactly what I was afraid of. The next generation is going to be a smaller leap than what was first believed. Sure, you can always add on to your engine and optimize it to look better on more powerful hardware, but only new engines will really take advantage of the consoles.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

This is not good. They are porting an engine that was developed on the ps3 architecture that will not take advantage of the ps4 robust hardware. Guerilla Games is doing the same with Killzone ShadowFall.

[unicron7]

In old interviews they have stated how scaleable the engine is. Pretty much built with the future in mind. They can add as much detail to the environment and characters that they want as long as the hardware can handle it.

[Anonagrog]

Just about every engine architect and game dev worth their weight will intelligently design the layout of, and communication between, engine sub-systems to allow for maximal ease in maintaining the engine as well as in minimizing the time/work-load/money cost involved in code changes over time. All software developers, myself included, want to avoid as much coupling as possible to hardware, operating system, or 3rd party apis. Keeping the underlying platform intricacies wrapped up and hidden from an engines systems, both high- and low-level, is an absolute must. It's an epic disaster waiting to happen if these kinds of steps weren't taken.

Now, of course there will still be work required to do targeted optimizations for each platform. The key is to amortize as much of the cost as possible by keeping the engine as scalable and decoupled as possible. Starting anew is rarely necessary in all but the most extreme of cases.

[quenomamen]

Dissapointing, seems they taking the Infinity Ward route. I know if you count all COD games then its no contest 4th Uncharted vs 7th now. But if you count just Infinity Ward made ones its even 4 vs 4.
Even though ND did come out running their mouth about how they got this brand new engine like IW, lets not be hypocrates.

[Felonycarclub8]

I didn't know there were so many game developers here in N4G LMFAO, people here are so quick tu turn their backs.

[sir_fortesque]

Naughty Dog Engine is one of the best. I don't see any reason to build a new one from scratch. My only complaint would be the shooting. While the mechanics are very good, it does feel a little hollow shooting a gun in Uncharted and (from what I've heard) The Last of Us also.

[Anonagrog]

The shooting mechanics won't really be what they're talking about here.

An engine that is designed to be used on multiple projects will typically see a dev team keep as strict a separation between gameplay code and engine sub-systems as possible. In Naughty Dog's case, they will be mostly referring to those engine sub-systems themselves (that run at a lower-level than the gameplay stuff), as well as the supporting dcc tools for it, rather than specific gameplay features.

[unicron7]

To those bitching: The Uncharted 3/Last of us Engine was built to be scale-able. They can easily put in a super high resolution model of a character/environment on screen or a low res one, depending on what the machine can handle. I've heard them talk about it before in interviews. The engine was modified with the future in mind.

[Jamaicangmr]

Hey ND i expect great things from you. So you better know what you are doing here.

[Sideras]

I would guess the engine is fairly scalable then and will hold for quite some time. Most games coming out early probably won't be that big of a leap, well atleast I don't think so judging from past transistions.

[stiggs]

I'm sure that the improvements in Naught Dog's new PS4 games will still be astonishing despite the use of the "old" game engine. That company was a driving force in my decision to buy a PS3. They've earned my trust going forward.

[FlunkinMonkey]

People comparing this situation to Call of Duty?! Are you utterly ignorant, or just completely stupid?

Why don't you go and compare call of duty 4 to the newest one.. and Uncharted 1 to The Last of Us yea? See where i'm going with this? They know exactly what they're doing.

A lot of you are talking like you have any idea, which you clearly don't. Do you really think they're going to risk their games' status's as being some of the best looking and playing games, at the risk of an 'old, outdated' engine.. Pffft

[isarai]

That's fine with me, many great looking game this gen used engines from last gen, first two that come to mind are inFamous 1 and Sniper Elite V2

Not to mention when it comes to ND, i'm pretty sure they know what they are doing when it comes to their game engine

[Ipunchbabiesforfun]

A lot of misconceptions going on here, did anybody read the article? ND said instead of scrapping an ENTIRE engine full of the past 10 years worth of work. They are going to port over everything they've learned and adjust accordingly.

lamen terms: They took 6 years making an awesome fighting system, they don't want to throw that away. Doesn't mean they aren't going to overhaul how the engine is scaled and runs for PS4.

[Chapter11]

I hope you like cover based shooting...

[porkChop]

Their engine is great. This isn't CoD where the engine is an old pile of crap. Naughty Dog's engine is very robust and very powerful. If they make some improvements it'll be perfect on PS4.

[PigPen]

So that means it will be the same graphics as current gen. The poster child for Sony's console not upgrading.

[porkChop]

What are you talking about? The graphics in ND's PS3 games are limited by the hardware not the engine. The engine was specifically built to be very scalable, and was built for the future. The engine is already scalable to PS4 levels, now add in all the optimizations and improvements they're going to make. There aren't going to be any problems. Their PS4 games will look amazing, and will run very well.

[FlunkinMonkey]

Did that hurt your last remaining brain cell that one? I guess you didn't read the article either right, like 90% of the other peeps? '

Either read it, or shut up

[PigPen]

I read the article and it says "only when we hit a wall we would say, When do we need to change something"? When do we need to scale it? "ONLY WHEN WE HIT A WALL" are the key words. Did you read the article?

[cunnilumpkin]

can't wait!!

imagine uncharted 3 with native 1920x1080 resolution and 8x anti aliasing and dx11 tessellation!!!

I loved every ND game so far, and only wish to see the true potential of the engine....gonna be f-ing sweet!

[Soldierone]

At least their engine looks good and is capable of this stuff. Added polygons and more available resources will make it look good, especially for early generation games.

COD on the other hand looks out dated before it even gets going..... Why not at least update to the newest Quake engine?

[annus]

The comments here the last few months really makes me realise that N4G has no idea about gaming when it comes to the technical things. PS4 'power' has proven to me that they just see numbers and assume that because PS4 has 16 times the amount of RAM that it must therefor have 16 times the amount of 'power'. And the comments on this article make me realise that people have no idea that software can be upgraded, or the fact that even without any upgrade to the engine it could still run a hell of a lot better with different hardware. Though I really don't know what I should have expected from a website that appears to be filled with pre-pubescent children.