GTA 5 Publisher: "if Microsoft is Taxing Used Games, We Should Get Paid Too"

Take-Two Interactive CEO Strass Zelnick doesn't think it necessary to "punish" consumers for purchasing second-hand games, arguing that "pushing up quality" and delivering robust DLC is a more effective way of persuading people to keep hold of the disc. That said, he's bang up for a share of Microsoft's rumoured Xbox One "pre-owned fee", assuming the scheme actually exists.

[NYC_Gamer]

"He said the company "somewhat hopeful" that the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 will allow Take-Two to participate in used game sales, though he did not provide any further details."

T2 wants a slice of that used game money

[Prcko]

yeah
it was hard to notice that lol

[wampdog29]

@Sono421

Yeah.... but I have a feeling you'll only be able to buy used consoles through Microsoft directly....

[kingmushroom]

@sono don't buy the console that's a bigger Fu*k you to M$

[stage88]

F you MS for trying to set this precedent. You're getting none of my money.

[KillerPwned]

Well if you buy the console at all you can buy it used off of someone.

[UnHoly_One]

@Sono

I hope you go to prison.

People like you are a drain on society.

I'm sorry that a company like MS isn't catering their product explicitly to your tastes, but you need to realize that you can't always get what you want, and just because they aren't offering something just for you doesn't give you the right to steal from them in order to exact your revenge.

Listen, we get it. Some of you guys are crazy about the whole used games thing. That's fine, but can't we just hold back until E3 when we actually find out for sure what they are doing in that regard?

I mean it's all just rumors at this point and everyone is flying off the handle as if its the end of gaming as we know it. Listen, even if MS and Sony both completely block used games, I think things will be fine. There is no used PC games market, no loaning games to friends, and it is just FINE.

So in closing. Just effing RELAX people.

[PiTCHBLaCK]

@ UnHoly_one

Usually I don't use this word but, are you a Tool?
Are you the kind of person that just Blindly accepts and does not Question anything?

And Quit saying it's all Just Rumors, Not all of it is. Kinect required?, Internet Required? Now Used game fee? We know thats not a Rumor, You need to Install the FULL Game and register it. So most likely there will be some kind of fee(It's Logical). All they had to do is require the Disc to play like usual but Instead they do this.

[husomc]

@Sono421 you should just wait for the Xbox1 emulator that will definitely pop up in the near future

[indysurfn]

@unholyone I will answer the question for you. Yes you ARE a tool! How is what the PRESIDENT ended up saying during the reveal not officially make it NOT a rumor! Just listened to the press conference. He said FEE! Not a rumor! All he didnt say was who would pay it the seller or the buyer. But he did say fee. And he did say every 24 hours or so. So how is that a rumor? Plus he pointed out that the TV part of it would require internet also. Stop imbarrasing me! I was a xbox fan but when I saw this it stopped being a two year rumor and started being a company attemp to punk me! Stop being blingly loyal to a company that is trying to CLOWN YOU!

[Pro Racer]

I've supported the Xbox and Xbox 360 for as long as I can remember, but the Xbox One is not taking next-gen console gaming in the right direction.

I should have the right to sell anything I own to whomever I wish, for however much I so desire. Restricting used game sales to "authorized retailers" does not support consumer freedom. No longer will you be able to borrow a game from a friend, pass on games you no longer play to friends and family, or resell a disappointing new game release via local sale.

Not happy with the game you bought? Your only options are to keep it, or trade it in for half of what you paid or less. Either way, you lose and Microsoft wins.

[Obtoose]

People, wake the **** up! Microsoft isn't setting the DRM/used games fee precedent. We've been dealing with it for years already, just in slightly different forms. Mobile gaming, digital downloading, Steam, Uplay, iOS/tablet gaming; can you trade in any of those games, can you? You can let your friend try out the game on your console, but if they want it they have to go buy it, right? It's exactly the same thing!

Maybe instead of complaining, you should be kicking yourself in the butt for not fighting against this years ago, when it really started.

[UnHoly_One]

I should really just give up trying to talk sense into the people on this website.

If you guys have really followed this all so closely to know what they have and haven't said about fees, you should have also caught the part where they retracted some of the comments and said that they HAD NO OFFICIAL WORD ON HOW IT WAS GOING TO WORK AT THIS POINT.

So yes, I know you Sony Fanbabies want to spread everything negative thing about the Xbox as gospel, but that just isn't how it is in this case.

Deny it all you want. I obviously can't change your mind, but the truth is out there if you actually make an effort to look for it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites...

“The ability to trade in and resell games is important to gamers and to Xbox,” the company said. “Xbox One is designed to support the trade in and resale of games. Reports about our policies for trade in and resale are inaccurate and incomplete. We will disclose more information in the near future.”

Now, am I trying to say they will have no fee or that you can loan your games to anyone??

No of course not.

You know why I not saying that? Because just like all of you guys, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO UNTIL THEY OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCE IT.

You guys might all be totally correct, I'm just trying to say that maybe you should wait until it's 100% confirmed before you all jump on the "I hate Xbox" bandwagon.

Oh, and don't forget that Sony said they were leaving stuff like this up to the publishers. Which could very well mean that we'll all be dealing with it on both consoles.

I don't know what else to say to get it through to you guys. You are all so set on the caveman mentality of "Sony Good, MS Bad", that you won't actually read the facts and formulate an opinion for yourself. You just read other mindless comments and agree with them.

It's ridiculous, it's embarrassing, and it's a real goddamned shame.

[Pro Racer]

@UnHoly_One

I for one, am not of the opinion that Sony is good and MS is bad. Despite what both companies may say on Twitter or otherwise, I believe neither one would venture into such a restrictive DRM policy alone. Neither have yet announced anything concrete, and both have attempted to appeal to the public by stating that "we hear you" and "the ability to trade in and resell games is important to us."

And as you said, they have yet to reveal the exact details of their used games policies, so anything can happen, and we may all end up being pleasantly surprised. However in my opinion, the recent negative backlash can do nothing but reinforce just how important used games truly are to us, hopefully convincing MS and Sony to do what is in the best interest of the gamers.

[-Mika-]

And they should get it. There no reason for them not to get it.

@ Majin And Yi

That sound like a horrible idea. You do know creating DLC cost extra money. Than you want them to give it away for free. Come on, that silly. Now I do agree with dlc being a key for users to not selling that game.

Games like RE5 did dlc great. Mercenaries reunion and the extra scenarios were really well done. RE6 on the other hand was horrible. Timed DLC and horrible DLC game modes that were just unnecessary. Developers need to produce more important DLC that add new characters or expand the story and release them 2-4 weeks after the game launch. That would allow more people to buy the $10 dlc and hold onto their game.

[00]

so when you sell all your old stuff do you send checks out to the original maker?

what's so damn special about the game industry that they get to be payed twice for selling one product.

[Kingthrash360]

this^^^

perfect reply

[Boody-Bandit]

*APLAUSE APLAUSE*
ENCORE!
ENCORE!

[animegamingnerd]

i wish you could rate people down enough so that they only have 0 bubbles

[rainslacker]

The consumer should never even have to consider it until these publishers can come up with an answer to that question.

Well said 00.

[nosferatuzodd]

Hey 00 Zodd the immortal approve youre
Comment here take some bubbles well said

[dragonyght]

@00
"so when you sell all your old stuff do you send checks out to the original maker?"

i don't know why you get so many agree and well said bubble when when what you said make zero sense, i mean im pretty sure that when you sell your games to gamestop for example no body is getting pay except for you, this have nothing to do second used game.

[scofios]

@00

Well said.
i take my hat off.

[Boody-Bandit]

Dragonyght

Edit
Never mind.
After reading it a few times I think I understand where you're coming from. I don't agree. But at least now I think I understand.
*heads spinning*

[Enemy]

-Mikey- owned yet again, this time by brutally by 00. Next in line?

[PiTCHBLaCK]

@ -Mika-

DLC Is optional.

Would you rather pay for the DLC and be restricted to Lend your Disc out also? Even though It's yours? Screw that. People like Options, when a DLC Comes out for a game I don't HAVE to buy it.

@ dragonyght

What if I don't want to Trade in my awesome game? What if I want to lend it to my buddy? They get paid twice?, 3 times? 4 times? Yes if you Trade it in to the store you get paid but Lending it is a no no. Thats the biggest gripe.

[PiTCHBLaCK]

double post

[grimmweisse]

I would hardly say owned! Mika does have a point, even if it's not a popular point. Game development is becoming increasingly expensive.

On a recent TB Content patch he brought up a similar point, and he knows it's an unpopular view with a vocal majority. If you look at other forms of entertainment they have multiple revenue streams where videos games have one. The used market is hurting the developers. Why do you think developers are not taking risks with new ideas? Why do think some DLC practices being abused. Because they need to play it safe because the risk of failure is too high. They are in a Business, no money no games!

The pc market is a prime example of how you don't need a used games market. Prices on steam, sale or non-sale items are extremely reasonable and sometimes absurdly cheap. Although my faith in the steam platform is far higher than XBL or PSN. I mean £59.99 for Fuse on PSN!

I think will all these issues regarding used games and revenues it will take a company with massive balls to try and regulate it...and piss off consumers along the way. Seems like MS is doing that. What I want to hear now what all the major developers think about it?

[DragonKnight]

@dragonyght: Please don't disgrace the name with such comments.

The point that 00 was making is that only in the gaming industry does anyone ask for multiple profits off of one product. When you sell your car, the car manufacturer doesn't get, nor expects, a cut of that money. Why should publishers get money from the same copy of a game when no other industry does? Plus, they've done literally nothing to deserve that extra profit.

@grimweisse: TB's arguments have their own holes. For example, he brought up that devs have to pay for servers and that the sales of new games pay for those servers. That's a bad argument to make because a game's online component is significantly longer than that game's shelf life. How do devs pay for servers for games that have stopped selling new copies because people have moved on to other games?

Look at Demon's Souls. The sales for that game have DEFINITELY stopped yet the servers are still up and will continue to be up indefinitely. Is Atlus paying for the servers with new sales of Demon's Souls? No, they aren't.

The PC market is an example of an audience that gave up and accept the status quo due to convenience. First sale doctrine extends to digital property as well, but to enforce it would require the court system and people don't want the hassle.

[grimmweisse]

@DragonKnight, sure I agree with the server issues, games with online components will always have that risk. And yes, TB's views are his own and I don’t take it as gospel, but he does bring interesting views even if someone cannot agree with them.

Especially with companies like Game encouraging customers to buy a used copy over a new copy of game. Why? Because Game gets to keep 100% of the used game sale. Another company making profit off another company's hard work without any recompense is highly immoral. So when game or gamestop saying their main business stream is the used games market, that means developers are keeping them alive, without gamestop or game giving anything back. There’s a massive problem right there.

This could all easily of been avoided if a certain percentage of the used game sales were given back to developers. But what we have now is a situation where DRM issues with used games are floating around wildly.

[Eyeco]

RE5 DLC sucked a$$ especially the "competitive" multiplayer

[DOMination-]

The reason why the gaming industry is so special is that it specifically says in the eula that you don't actually own the game. The rules are therefore somewhat different to when you buy eg. a sofa.

I don't agree, I just believe thats the reason

[kenshiro100]

A blind consumer. I expected nothing less from you Mika.

[marcolinhoo]

I disagreee with the disagree:)

I think what he's saying is:
IF (or WHEN) a company (M$) make you pay for used games, THEN,
there's no reason why those money should stay in the company (always M$) hands entirely.
It's more logical that those money goes to the devs. Yes in this case they get paid twice.
But better than to pay a company wich did nothing regard the game sold (guess who? M$).
So the point is: the money should go to developers and not to microsoft and the official resellers. They don't deserves and can't ask for the cash.
At least that's how i red it...
anyway:
"what's so damn special about the game industry that they get to be payed twice for selling one product."
Nothing at all! I do think the fee is utterly nonsense and anti-consumer and nobody should buy the xbone with this policy!

[Seafort]

@grimmweisse "The PC market is an example of an audience that gave up and accept the status quo due to convenience. First sale doctrine extends to digital property as well, but to enforce it would require the court system and people don't want the hassle."

PC gamers didn't give up we had to change tact and steam was one of the game companies that stuck by us and made the platform what it is today. If it wasn't for steam most of the publishers and console devs would have left the PC platform behind.

Digital distribution will be the future of consoles too the platform holders just aren't ready for it yet. Too many constraints and boundaries to overcome before its purely digital for consoles.

I'm also glad for the indie scene on PC. They've been amazing the last 2-3 years and a lot of the thanks goes to steam once again accepting them onto their store.

Now kickstarter is taking off and PC gamers have a chance to support the devs we want to support and say no to the games we don't need or want.

Now when do you think the console gamer will have a say in what games are supported or not? Not in this lifetime that's for sure :)

[indysurfn]

@00 was 007 already taken? Nice name! Anyway I have NEVER EVER saw 131 agrees to 4 disagrees in my life! LOL that has got to be a record! Oh wait make that 132 agrees as soon as I get done with this comment!

[hazardman]

I read an article last week on develop online and it stated that most profits from used games will go to publishers and the smaller portion going to retailers.

[Maddens Raiders]

Sono - you've got the right attitude. It's called a gamer's spirit.

A little off topic:
=====================
Has there ever been a gamer's "Bill of Rights" written lol... just so that we don't all get fleeced for paying greedy ass people over and over for something that already sold at MSRP the FIRST time, just for the sake of more yacht parties, coke, and hookers????

edit:/ Oh Snap! http://www.gamersbillofrigh...

I bet MSFT saw this 4 years ago and said hurry and get the xbone out before some Congressman sees this mock bill and tries to soapbox with it! .. wow dat 8-10 are spot on....

[Seafort]

That Gamers Bill of Rights only applied to the PC gamer as Stardock wrote it for their fans and PC gamers alike :)

But it'll probably apply to console gamers now too.

It's worth nothing till the publishers and developers actually sign up to it though.

[indysurfn]

Let me get this straight. Microsoft is saying we need to solve the used game 'problem' because the publisher/developer is not getting any of the money from the used game market. Thats there stance. Then they come up with a way to charge you for selling your OWN PROperty, and they are STILL not giving the money to the publisher? That is what it sounds like from this article. So we would still have them not getting a cent, and people not having that much to buy new games with(because the fee took some). But Microsoft under this senario is the only one getting paid!

[killerbotmax]

So you figured out how the console market works... Yes, the benefit is for Sony/nint/ms, not the creative industries or the consumers.

[TheOrion]

Actually from the article that still seems like an unknown.

"Microsoft has refused to discuss any of this, naturally, stating that its pre-owned policy is still being finalised."

If the publishers are not satisfied with an arrangement being put on them then the games can and will suffer.

[Seraphim]

as far as I'm concerned if it ever happens the money should absolutely go to the developers. They are the ones losing the most from 2nd hand sales.

[Bounkass]

It's always about the money...

[Syntax-Error]

A lot of Take Two's DLC are robust. Rockstar gives you your money's worth in DLC. Red Dead and GTA4 gave you a lot of bang for the buck.

And so we are here again. Like I said before that it doesn't make sense. Do you see Ford or Nissan wanting revenue for every used car sold?

[Majin-vegeta]

"Let's push up our quality, which you've seen in our Metacritic scores, and then let's make sure to give people DLC, often free, three or four weeks out; which is the time you're at risk for them trading in their game," he added. "If you can keep the game in consumer's hands for 8 weeks, you almost don't care anymore about used game sales because it's the first 8 weeks that really nail you."

This people usually trade in their games when they finish everything.Give us Free DLC and people would be less entinced to trade them in.

[Yi-Long]

... for years now.

If you want to fight 2nd hand games, you will have to make sure that people who BUY your games, don't want to SELL their games 3 days later! And the way to do that, is indeed with stuff like free DLC.

It would also mean more people will be willing to buy those games on day 1 and for full price, because they'll know they'll be buying the complete experience, instead of the current situation, hwere you know you'll be nickel-and-dimed 3 seconds after launch.

[grassyknoll]

Very true! CD Projekt & a few others already know this. Forcing people to keep your game just makes people not want to buy it. Making your game great & full of content also helps!

[travelguy2k]

couldn't agree more, even gave you a bubble so you can spew more truth.

[rainslacker]

I agree with the principle of what you're both saying, but it does lend itself to content being stripped from the game itself. Some companies are better about this than others and may actually not do that, but this gen has shown many publishers are more than willing to sell core game content at an additional cost.

I do like that the guy quoted though at least sees that you can combat the 2nd hand market through quality products instead of punishing the customer. This is one reason I like Rockstar in general.

[kwyjibo]

Of course the publisher should get a cut if the platform holder does. I really doubt platform holders could enforce such as system if the publisher didn't buy into it.

[sway_z]

Fook this nickle 'n dime B$!!

MS have opened the flood gates with this stupid greedy policy...now everyone involved in development/publishing will want a slice of the pie!!

Lol...did MS and retailers really think they could have it all??

[creeping judas]

Sorry, but that comment makes no sense. I doubt any business would turn their hands away from an additional revenue stream. Especially one as lucrative as what the used game market could be. Have you even seen a business turn away revenue?

And hasn't MS already confirmed, the revenue would be split between the publisher and MS??

[sway_z]

SORRY BUT NO...they (MS) have not confirmed splitting revenue with publishers/developers...all that MS have 'loosely' mentioned is retailers getting their share. If you're gonna challenge a statement/comment, please do some research...??

..And I don't know who's comment you think you have replied to, because not once did I say 'any business would turn away additional revenue stream'..

So it is you who makes nonsense and lacks basic reading abilities and understanding....hope you're not a divorce lawyer!

Your name really suits you.....try and pay attention to detail instead of trying conveniently placing words into someone's mouth.

[creeping judas]

Perhaps you missed the question marks at the end of my statement, at no point was I challenging a statement, I was looking for clarification.

Also as per your initial comment, I initially read "now" as "not", hey my mistake I can admit it, but thanks for the rant over that.

[rainslacker]

Why should MS get any of it? Unless it's their own 1st party game. Maybe a small fee for processing costs like they do now for digital content, but it should almost all go back to the publisher. Either that, or they could do the legal thing and not tell us what we can do with our property.

[Sideras]

I actually though their whole idea was to sort of split the pie with the publishers, but I take this as MS wanting to eat the whole pie themselves which makes this even more unacceptable. Which make my chances of buying an Xbone drop from 0.1% to -99% or something.

[ApolloTheBoss]

Damn Microsoft. Soon all publishers start saying this crap. You ALREADY got money for the game the first time! People have a right to do whatever the hell they want with they're games. This should be illegal and hope somebody educates them on the First Sale Doctrine.

[insomnium2]

Yeah pretty much this. It's the devs job to keep people from selling their games 2 weeks in. Either the game is worth the FULL 60 bucks or then the game isn't worth it and the resale value is taken into consideration by the time of purchase.

With games that are NOT worth the full 60 the sales would PLUMMET without the resale value. Have you devs thought about that?

[Hueynewton2012]

is it me or does anyone else think lawsuits will happen, classs action etc.

[wishingW3L]

I thought MS's DRM was to get a cut for the publishers and not just for themselves....

[hazardman]

Thats what i was thinking too...but maybe im misunderstanding whatever gets said on the subject because MS not helping matters much. Im mean you got one xbox team saying yes and the other saying i dont know, a duh......

[Sideras]

This just makes it much worse...

[BrianC6234]

I agree with this. If Microsoft forces people to pay to play used games all of that money should go to the publisher and developer of the game. None should go to Microsoft even unless it's their game.

[Grimhammer00]

This indeed is telling. I assumed that the logical plan was EA asked MS to create this DRM bs. EA does away with online passes. MS loves it to combat piracy. (If MS ever succeeded in eliminating piracy - they'd lose out on all those replacement buys! But whatev)

But it makes sense that pubs don't know anything yet....otherwise we'd have leaks long time ago. Oh wait....kinda did didn't we!

[cyguration]

Eidos prez already leaked it a while back:
http://www.cinemablend.com/...

[Dan_scruggs]

Here we go.

[Grimhammer00]

I'm 100% against used game DRM. But try and remember you don't own the games you buy....you pay $60 for a license to play for eternity. (Except DRM server crap negates this doesn't it?)

This is the issue we need to fight! This bs applies to movies, tv shows, videos you buy.....it's precisely why you can't copy or share these things. And yet who hasn't loaned a movie or had more than 7 friends over to watch a movie?
(In Canada there's a limit to how many people can watch a movie together....can't recall the number. I guess 7.)

[WitWolfy]

That last part really made me LOL.. Never of such crap in my LIFE!

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

That last part isn't true in the slightest. Even if it was an actual law it's impossible to enforce. Try harder next time. lol

[greatcrusader44]

Wait, PS4 and Xbox One were going to pocket the money themselves!?! I just assumed its was a deal with publishers, because that would at least make sense., but they're having us pay THEM to play someone else's game? What a load of cr@p.

That's f#cking crooked, didn't like this DRM business from the start, but could at least see why some publishers would want it, but if they aren't even involved in it and the ones getting the money is the console makers then that's just nonsensically greedy.

[T2]

Where the f did you get " Sony and Microsoft " from .. Sony never stated they were going to do this so just quit already

[Gemmol]

sony said up to the publishers, but they may not do it, so say EA want to use it on the ps4 they can or any other publisher, both ps4 and xbox one not safe for used games

[T2]

so what, then just buy all the sony exclusives, works for me.... like i said, nowhere did SONY state they were doing this.

[Roper316]

I have no problem with any fee or restriction on used games since they take the money right out the people who bring us the games pockets. I actually feel they should make it where it works out to cost you more to buy used so people would stop doing it.

If you like gaming I have no effin idea why you wouldn't want the people who brings us the games we enjoy to make the money over Gamestop and the like.

People who don't support the platform holders, publishers & developers should have to pay extra imho. Seeing that Gamestop makes all the money off of used game sales maybe you should ask them to foot the bill for that extra fee next time you buy used while I on the other hand don't have to worry about it because I do support the people who bring us the games by buying new.

IF your gonna be cheap and buy used don't be a cry baby to boot when they want to charge you for taking the money out of their pockets and giving it to someone else like GS.

[T2]

Thats fine then I just wont buy 30 games a year ill stick to the 15 games from studios who actually try and make a good product with no drm... And those other studios can go f themselves and go bankrupt ... Thats your solution you just forced on me

[Roper316]

well if you were buying used they weren't making money anyways so what difference does your statement make if you buy 15 or 30 or 100 if it's used the only person making money is the person selling it which isn't the dev/publisher.

Again why should GS or Amazon etc etc make the money off your used game purchase while the people who actually made the game and the publisher of the game get nothing?

Would you like something you created to be sold while you got nothing from it? I didn't think so.

[dragon82]

I take it you've never had a garage/yard sale? Should we start charging people fees for that too since it takes money out of the pockets of the original creators of those products? What about used car sales? Where does it stop?

[T2]

@roper - it makes a difference because someone had to buy the game initially... for example MY FRIENDS who we all sit down and plan what games we will get and then share them. If we can't do that , then NOONE will buy those games...
See this is why not everyone can run a business, because they can only see step 1, never step 2 or 3... guess it's back to your microsoft job.
By the way even the greediest industry ever, the music industry, doesn't prevent you from selling your old CD's , but mindless sheep like yourself somehow think it's ok for games.

[rainslacker]

"People who don't support the platform holders, publishers & developers should have to pay extra"

Should the people that brought that game original, thus supporting all those parties, also be made to pay extra? because that is essentially what will happen. This "fee" is going to come in the form of lower trade in values, and likely a hassle(or possible insecurity) on selling your game.

The person who buys the 2nd hand game is unlikely to see much change at all, as the price they pay for the game is going to be on par with what it is now. So who gets punished? The people who buy the 2nd hand game? Or the people who supported the industry in the first place?

[Rimfro]

@Roper: I rarely buy used. I only do if I want to go back and play an older game that isn't available new. I do sell my games, though. I then take whatever money, or credit, I receive and apply it toward the purchase of another new game. That's the side of the argumment everyone seems to miss. At $60, there are a lot of games I'd pass on if it wasn't for me being able to flip my older titles. That means a lot of games that I would buy that are closer to the mediocre side of quality, won't get a dime from me. You're the worst kind of consumer. The one who thinks that you owe the entity, providing you with an optional service, something more than your money. They aren't making that game because they appreciate you and think you are a gift from God, they are making that game so they can get your money.

[Kran]

After watching TB's video, I PERSONALLY think it should be law that some money from a used game should go to the dev/publisher. That way it makes it more fairer to developers/publishers, meaning they dont go out of business like so many seem to have these days.

[MAULxx]

Devs & publishers don't get money from used games. Why the hell should they? It was purchased new first or it couldn't be used. They got their money from the game. Used game buyers didn't care enough to buy the game new so they were never gonna buy it new anyway. Just because someone took a chance on a 20 dollar used game doesn't mean they would have bought it at 60 bucks new if they couldn't have bought it new.

MS is already double dipping with XBL fees & now devs & publishers want to double & triple dip. They can crash the console market for all I care. They're not gonna double dip on me any more.
I think alot of people feel the same way & if they do buy a next gen console.... they'll be buying alot less games.

60 dollar digital only games is a screw you on consoles as all your games would be vaperware.

The more decisions & control they rip away from gamers the more pissed gamers are gonna get. I just hope we get pissed enough to give em the middle finger & not buy restrictive systems & games. There are alternatives.

[Rimfro]

You are exactly right. I only buy new, but do use the second hand market to make it more cost-effective to buy more new games. These game devs, publishers, platform holders aren't heroes providing a charitable service to save the world. They are making games. Them taking my money from the day 1, full-priced sell is the extent of my loyalty. The idea that somehow we owe them more than our cash for what they provide is absurd. Take away my ability to sell my games, then I'll buy less games, if you are even fotunate enough for me to purchase the console.

All of this crap is pushing me to buy a pc. If I'm going to deal with drm, I'm going to go with the platform that offers a bit of value for my troubles. Some of the comments on here illustrate why these businesses think they can get away with it. Once again, the simpletons are the ones leading the masses to the slaughter. What a shame.

[KontryBoy706]

Who didn't see this coming?

[bigtrucknd]

I sold an old car last week. I better send GM the money since they made the car.

[Dark-vash]

And the guy who bought it, should pay GM to get the another key to start the car!

[Fairchild Channel F]

And don't forget, if you let someone borrow your car....well they need to pay a fee too.

And you freeloading car poolers...your cheating the car makers. Pay up!

[bleachrulez]

That is some funny shit right there...aha

[Valenka]

Truer words were never spoken. Kudos to Strass Zelnick.

[HarryB]

This is going to be a big anti trust law suit. Because the consumer will have no choice. And when a consumer has no choices the government will bring big companies down. You can't force someone to pay a used product fee. That means if I have a pair of shoes nike will get a piece of my used shoe money if I sell it to you. Come on.

[dcbronco]

I agree that developers should make holding onto the game something that's worth the persons while. But many will sell anyway. There has to be a way around this whole problem. But I understand that some developers could be helped with the additional revenue given their obligation to the software over time.

[StockpileTom]

"arguing that "pushing up quality" and delivering robust DLC is a more effective way of persuading people to keep hold of the disc"

THAT... has been my entire argument the whole time... as a developer I would rather make a game people would stay attached to and make it hard for them to part with it...

I take pride in my work and others should too. I wouldn't want to be asking for some handout in the form of a used game fee.

[mmj]

If the used games market was as bad as the publishers make out the gaming industry wouldn't have evolved to the size it is today, this whole thing about impoverished developers not getting money for used games sales is nothing but a sob story put out by greedy publishers to pull on the heart strings.

If publishers care so much about their developers how about giving them a higher percentage of the profits? instead of inventing new and increasingly draconian ways to scare away customers.

[MikeyDucati1]

The used game business is going to get even uglier to where nobody is even going to want to deal with the market anymore.

[PANTHER1030]

#PS4NoDRM and #PS4UsedGames

[swice]

I think he's taking a jab at the rediculous ideas that MS are accused of doing.
I don't think he likes the idea of used games being stopped at all and is being sarcastic.

[jacksons98]

Wow so MS is going to keep the fee for themselves? They aren't even sharing it with the people who made the game?
And I didn't think they could get any lower

[RAYMEISTER]

uu

[mochachino]

Well MS taxed online MP an know one asked to get paid then, this is standard MS Entertainment Division practice. But the devs are right, they're more entitled to the tax than MS is, they made the game.

[Krosis]

It really makes one ask themselves: Do I ever really "own" my game? $60 gets you unlimited plays basically, no chance on selling something YOU bought already. I'm sure it's all air-tight covered in the fine print :/

[Garrison]

Used Games is something Microsoft doesn't have a right to "deal" with in the first place. Wtf now If I sell my car, toyota needs a fee?
Anyone supporting anything like this is downright doing a huge disservice to consumers everywhere and should be ashamed.

Why should you or I give extra money to a company for doing absolutely NO EXTRA WORK?

They don't NEED to handle a thing, Game installs work just fine on the 360, if you have the disk in the tray you play the game is that simple.

[titans9999]

Wow, don't they realize that if hackers can and WILL find a way around this? Don't they always? It's like legalizing drugs, why not just make it legal, people still do it anyway! And it cost us tax payers money!

[Soldierone]

At least they are not stupid like other publishers.... agree entirely with "MAKE BETTER CONTENT" to get better sales. Also the fact that it gives access to DLC, so they still get a piece of the pie.

And with it integrated in the console itself, that money is still NOT going to the developers.... so anyone supporting it is simply wasting their own money, or working for a publisher.

[KingKevo]

I thought that this was part of Microsoft's plan to split that money with the publishers. That's what I thought was logical, but I did not know that only they take the benefits from their used games fess. That's fucked up. Especially if people have to pay for Xbox Live already and have to watch their ads. If anyone deserves money for a used game, it's not GameStop, not Microsoft, but the publisher (including the developers).

So again, we see what MS is up to, they trey to get as much money as they possibly can.

[SpinalRemains]

We should all keep getting paid after we do one job. Wouldn't that be sweet?

These conversations make me Ill. The fact that some of you have been tricked into believing that devs are somehow victims that are losing money, is absolutely sickening to me.

Stockholm Syndrome must be very real.

[Garbanjo001]

I like how the game company for GTA5 had NO IDEA THAT THIS WAS HAPPENING! What he was basically saying was that game companies are just as in the dark as we are.

[GAMExxOVER]

I play PC only because my ass is exit only.

[Allowen]

I am wondering if the cost of adding that TV hub thing, Kinect 2 and having to use three different OS to make XboxOne console to work if it would cost more then a PS3chip that PS4 do not have.

It will be interesting to see how Sony will do if their console next gen start costing like $50-100 less then the Xboxone.

[quenomamen]

Well wasnt this whole thing supposed to be about helping out the devs / publishers in the first place ? Till MS figured out this was just another way to make a buck. Its like all the fake charities after the Boston thing.

MS - " No really guys this is about us standing up for the poor game makers.

Oh really what percent of your DRM fees go to the people who make the games ?

MS - " sorry we where counting some money, what we talking bout again ? "

But on another note, since when did it become mandatory that game makers need a cut off used games ? Name another thing that wants money for a resale:

Used cars ?
Used DVDs / Blurrays
Used CDs ?
Used tvs ?
Used PCs ?
Used houses ?

Why do game makers need to get a cut off used games ?
If you guys are getting screwed by the console makers then band together and demand better deals. Im sorry but youre gonna have a hard time getting me to feel empathy for Activision and their 500 mill or whatever they make on COD every year.

[iistuii]

Used games. Why is everyone so obsessed with wanting to go out & buy a used game as soon as their next gen console arrives. How I see it is you can still trade, buy, your used games as you do now. The only difference I can see is that instead of the game exchange store giving you a shit deal, the console itself will do it, & the money from the deal goes to the developers & not the game exchange store.

[humleren]

NO! Dammit Take-Two... as a game publisher you deserve squat except for the money from new games you sell. Why can't they see the absurdity in this? If i sold my car, my tv or something else i damn sure would not pay the guys who made it. Same goes for dvd's, cd's etc. It's ridicoulous!

[Pherros]

If New games were within the $39.99-$49.99 price range, more people would be more inclined to buy NEW copies games. Thus, producing more pre-orders, new game purchases, Day 1 sales, etc.

Theoretically, this would would create more profit for the publishers in the long run. Sure, people would still buy used copies of games later, but with this price range, more people would most likely buy New copies first.

[demonJAKAL]

If they were to charge companies who trade games the fee which should go the publishers and none to Microsoft, this will probably bring up the prices of used games in the end

[Grindlefly]

No way! It doesn't matter who gets the fee, there shouldn't be a fee in the 1st place! There is no "used game problem", that was until ms invented it. The problem for me has been, make the game decent and maybe complete in the 1st place and maybe I won't want to sell it!? Don't hold back on content to release as dlc the same friggin day the game is released, don't go for micro transactions and try and make stupid money on costumes etc. don't release the same game every single year, with the same claims about how it is revolutionised yet in actual fact it plays exactly the same as before, or minor tweaks. Don't hold back a load of changes to a game to roll out over 3 years when you can implement all changes in the next release?!
Used game "problem" solved :)

[naBs]

Yeah I think I'm gonna end up boycotting Microsoft. Lol

[Dfooster]

And so the decline in the gaming industry begins...

[Gamer Muzz]

How about this? NO ONE should get paid for the sale of a used game aside from the person who OWNS the game!
"First Sale Doctrine" dictates that we all have the right to sell any copy written work that we paid for legally.
If you buy it, you own it. Period.
First sale doctrine is the same law that allows Comic book stores, libraries, used car dealerships, ETC. to exist, and it has existed for the past 105 years.
This law states that when you buy a copy written work, It's YOUR property to do with as you please. You should be able to sell it and benefit from the full price of that sale. Especially considering you take a loss every time you sell a game.
Charging us or taking from our pockets as punishment for finding value in our old games is downright unethical and immoral.

[LAWSON72]

I really hate the game industry and i am glad i got into pc gaming so much cheaper with less bs.