Some Games Could be 60fps on PS4 and 30fps on Xbox One - Jonathon Blow

Jonathon Blow, creator of the PS4 game, The Witness, has said some interesting things about the next gen consoles.

[GamersRulz]

I can see that happening considering the big gap un power between the two.

[bicfitness]

I think true 1080p on PS4 and some 1650 X 900 or other "sub" 1080p solution on Xbone are more feasible outcomes. And the PS4 will certainly have better draw-distance, particle effects and textures. There has never been a generation with three machines so clearly apart from one another.

Wii U 300-400 TF (generous), 1-1.whatever gigs RAM
Xbone 1.2 TF, 5 gigs RAM
PS4 1.8 TF 7 gigs FASTER RAM

*RAM=RAM that is freed and usable for drawing active frames. The total pool for each machine is higher.

Craziness. In one sense its nice that they're all sort of chasing a different demographic, as it makes things less confusing for the consumer.

Edit: Big, the specs are out there. Exactly as I listed them. That is a leap in quantifiable power between all three systems and the output will show this. You might as well accept it now before the Digital Foundry comparisons start rolling in.

[BigFnHooters]

"There has never been a generation with three machines so clearly apart from one another."

The difference in power this gen will be roughly the same as it was last gen where the PS3 crushed the Xbox 360 in graphics.

The PS3 utterly dominated the weaker Xbox 360. There never was a generation in the history of the console market were two consoles that were released so close in time that had such a massive gap in graphical performance.

Every single possible area of graphics the PS3 crushed the Xbox 360:

* Resolution
* Lighting
* Materials
* Animation
* Poly counts
* World size and complexity

Every single previous gen where two consoles were released within a year or so of each other had the weaker console excelling in areas the stronger console couldn't match.

Not with the PS3 and the Xbox 360. For the first time in console history it was an across the board domination in graphics. The Xbox 360's absolute inability to compete with the PS3's graphics led it to be the first console in history to have to stoop to the humiliating claim of bragging about mostly imagined(or even fabricated) minuscule differences in graphically mediocre mulitplatform titles.

Microsoft was so worried about the massive graphical power advantage of the PS3 over the weaker Xbox 360 that they forced third party developers to agree in their game publishing contracts to gimp the PS3 version of their titles down to the level of the Xbox 360.

[Gazondaily]

"The difference in power this gen will be roughly the same as it was last gen where the PS3 crushed the Xbox 360 in graphics."

Please tell me you guys don't believe this. Restore my faith in humanity N4G!!

Anyway, its funny how the tables have turned. Multiplats are more than likely going to run better on the PS4. Combine that with exclusives and you've got a clear choice there (amongst other factors) if you're primarily a gamer.

[joefrost00]

Dude you do you the 8 gigs of ram on the xbox is.unified for the developers can use all 8 gigs and the purpose of the ram changes dynamically depending on how the developers want to use it
Then it switches on the fly to the system when you switch different functions
Also once again no one is accounting for the move engines
Here is the link
http://arstechnica.com/gami...

Scroll down where they bullet point other facts about the systems

[bicfitness]

@ Joe. Incorrect. As confirmed by MS: 3 gigs are RESERVED AT ALL TIMES FOR THE SYSTEM OS.

http://kotaku.com/the-five-...

Jesus Christ, its like people are deliberately ignoring what MS has shown them about the system.

@ Big. I think you're looking for contention where there is none. Yes, the PS3 overall produced better games when the hardware was correctly used. It also had worse results - generally - when it came to multiplats. However, the gap THIS COMING generation will be vividly apparent. 1st party AND multiplats will shine on Sony's machine. That's what I was saying. The specs are bounds apart from each other.

@ Big. There are console warriors and then there are tech enthusiasts. I am the latter. I know which you are. Seriously, chill out before you have an aneurysm. Last gen, Xbox multiplats looked marginally better a significant percentage of the time. I only have Sony hardware at this point - had them all though, 2 360s in fact - and I am fine with this. Digital Foundry articles and my own 2 eyes could see the disparity, and often. What world are you living in where this was not the case? Yes, PS3 exclusives knocked it out of the park, but that wasn't all that people ever bought.

Anyway, aside from derailing reality and going into crazy land. This gen will be quite different. PS4 has an obvious advantage and that should be interesting.

[BigFnHooters]

"Yes, the PS3 overall produced better games when the hardware was correctly used. It also had worse results - generally - when it came to multiplats. However, the gap THIS COMING generation will be vividly apparent."

Honestly, give this crap a rest.

Console game graphics isn't the Special Olympics where everyone is a winner.

The PS3 so crushed the Xbox 360 in graphics this gen that the hardcore, foaming at the mouth Xbox crazies had nothing else left than to try to claim 'teh multiplats look better'.

You ask an Xbox fanboy which of two screen shots look better of some multiplatform titles and they will scream 'teh 360 version looks teh best!"

You switch the labels on the images and Xbox fanboys will now claim the opposite screenshot looks the best.

Xbox fans were so desperate to salvage some dignity from the graphical asskicking the PS3 dished out to the 360 that sites like GameTrailers were going so far as to:

* Intentionally set the PS3's video output settings wrong to create washed out screenshots

* Using higher jpg compression to degrade the quality of PS3 screenshots and introduce ugly artifacts

And countless other fanboys games. And Xbox fans lapped it up because they were desperate for it to be true.

[gaffyh]

@Big - He is right though. The architectures last gen were so different that only PS3 exclusives really shone early on. Obviously now, the PS3 has far better graphics than the 360, however this coming gen, the architecture is the same across the board, which means the difference will be clear quite quickly.

[hesido]

BigFnHooters: I'm a PS person, and while PS's exclusives look spectacular, you cannot use the word "crush" to compare PS3 graphics to the Xbox360. Multiplats most of the time were more comfortable on the Xbox360 while looking very similar, not something that you'd expect if PS3 lead the performance department by a long shot. They have vastly different architectures that makes comparison of raw power not helpful.

PS4 vs XBone is a different story, with both having quite similar core architectures, differences in technical specifications are easier translated into potential performance comparisons, and PS4 should easily win in that department.

[kneon]

@joefrost00

The x1 does not have a unified ram architecture. In addition to the ddr3 there is 32mb of esram to try to compensate for the slower ddr3.

[hkgamer]

@bigfnhooters
"There never was a generation in the history of the console market were two consoles that were released so close in time that had such a massive gap in graphical performance."

Xbox and Gamecube
Wii and PS3

[BlmThug]

I have owned a 360 for four years and currently own a PS3. The graphical difference is miniscule! Only fanboys suggest otherwise with the rose tinted spectacles on. X1 and PS4 wont be much different and if applied effectively, the X1 with its cloud may even beat the PS4 in graphics

[ProjectVulcan]

Chances are you'll see lazy ports onto PS4 just running more resolution and framerate.

Good ones will improve all the effects. Either way PS4 has more performance to have the best multis.

It is entirely likely we could see PS4 doing 1080p or close to it in most games, while Xbox one aims mostly for 720p titles.

[imt558]

@BigFnHooters

"Every single possible area of graphics the PS3 crushed the Xbox 360:

* Resolution
* Lighting
* Materials
* Animation
* Poly counts
* World size and complexity"

Not in every area, but is true. And only in exlusive games. GOW : A, Beyond and The Last Of Us will be cream on the cake in graphics on PS3 at the end of this generation.

[jetlian]

32 esram probably for AA. I do see the a problem for xbo though. Overall ram is down

BigFnHooters gained 2 bubbles off 14 comments in 2 days from account creation?! Like I said something has been off on this site in the past month!

coolbeans was promoted to mod within a week. He was at like 5 bubbles a month ago.

[Boody-Bandit]

So know matter how we slice it and serve it up the PS4 will have on par or better looking multiplats, more and better looking exclusive games and less fees (if any fees) to game in general (used n rentals without fees) or play online.

MS is clearly headed in a different direction than it's original user base. I honestly didn't think MS would repeat their arrogance of their 1st generation where they picked up their ball and moved on. This is worse. They have picked up their ball and told their fan base, not only are we headed in a different direction, but every single thing you currently own wont work on our next iteration and our primary focus isn't gaming. MS is without a doubt sticking up the middle finger at their core base yet the majority of them will chose to ignore it and purchase an X1 day 1 or shortly there after.

I want an XBOX ONE but honestly after what they put me through the last 2 generation I will NOT be made a fool again. I have nearly 2k worth of peripherals I am contemplating unloading them now so I can get some value back while the 360 is still current. The move they are making is beyond frustrating.

If only the MAJORITY of core 360 gamers would unite instead of defending MS? They WOULD make changes to their gameplan before releasing the X1. Instead you have to put on a stern face and take one for the team because of silly internet banter in this make believe so called "console wars". The only war going on here is MS vs your wallet. Milking you for every cent. Most of which you don't have to pay for on other gaming platforms. My wallet is out of that war. MS can go kick rocks because I wont be made a fool a 3rd time running.

[JsonHenry]

The problem I have with the consoles having so much extra RAM is that the video cards are not capable of actually taking advantage of all of it. Not really a "problem" but I think a lot of people think that just because they have a crazy amount of RAM (certainly more than I expected) that the consoles are somehow beastly in terms of visual fidelity. The real benefit of so much RAM is going to be that it will be much faster when switching to the dashboard/menus/apps and the like. Which is a nice bonus but both Sony and MS tout the 8gigs of RAM as if it is saying they have some crazy GPU in the system. It is very misleading but the end results are still going to be pleasant for the end user.

[S2Killinit]

@BLM Thug
Sony can also employ cloud computing. Also, just so you know, cloud computing for games is a fantasy. It wont happen because the developers will not be able to penetrate the larger market. (in other words, they wouldn't waste their time) But, if it somehow becomes plausible, the PS4 can do it.

[NextGen24Gamer]

Sony fanboys would like to believe that the xbox one has only 5 gigs of ram for games. NOT TRUE as stated by an xbox rep! If you are multitasking..for example gaming & skype or skype and tv, that is when the 3 gigs are used! Only a sony fanboy would actually believe that Microsoft would only leave 5 gigs for ram! LOL...So lets find another way to bash the xbox one before it's released. LOL...

BTW...Xbox Ones unique use of the cloud with all those 1000's of servers will also negate the difference in the type of ram used vs ps4's. The type of ram won't matter for 3rd party developers....But, when first part xbox one developers use the cloud for game assets, the results will be STUNNING to say the least. Sure you have to have an internet connection to take advantage of this, but Who buys a next gen console, has a 1080p tv, and has no internet? LOL...LOL....Is that even realistic? Internet is like electricity in todays day an age. We all have gadgets that connect to wi fi. In 5 years we will wonder how we ever lived without being connected. Thank you MS for your forward thinking and advancing the gaming/entertainment industry.

Here is a quote from a Microsoft Rep! Straight from their mouth! E3 will continue to clear it up!

"•The 8GB of RAM in the Xbox One is accessible as one unified chunk and can be divvied up between the GPU and the CPU dynamically. "Different kinds of games will want to use the CPU, the GPU, and the RAM differently, Booty said. "If we were to try to determine ahead of time how you wanted to divide RAM up between video RAM, main RAM, and audio RAM, we’re making a lot of assumptions, and when you make assumptions you start to limit the people who are going to be making games going forward."

[fr0sty]

Guys, ps3 actually had a weaker gpu than 360, the cell helping is the only thing that enabled it to slightly pull ahead of the 360 in some exclusives.

This time around it's much different. 50% more power in the gpu (18 compute units vs 12, 1152 gpu cores vs 768), and 250% more ram bandwidth (178gbps vs 68gbps. I'm not counting esram because it can only hold a tiny 32mb at a time, and only the gpu can access it, limiting it's uses severely.), not counting having 2gb less ram reserved for the os (remember, the xbone's hypervisor dynamically allocates ram out of the 5gb reserved for games to the os if needed, not the other way around). This isn't just an "on paper" difference that will only be seen in "lazy ports", this is a considerably more powerful machine.

[DragonKnight]

@vulcanproject: If I recall correctly, you are a PC gamer yes? I would like to bubble you up for not taking the typical PC gamer route and talking about the graphics for the PC being superior to consoles, and given that this comment section pretty much would grant PC gamers the right to say "I though console gamers don't care about graphics," I think you've taken the high road.

On Topic: Seriously people, the consoles aren't out so stop talking about what you think you know about the graphics.

[kreate]

it doesn't matter cuz according to Microsoft's strict multiplatform policy, games need to be identical or close to identical on the xbox when compared to other platforms.

so the game will again be downgraded just like this generation to the level of the xbox.

only sony's first party titles will truly utilize the ps4's maximum potential.

its just the same cycle repeating itself.

[NextGen24Gamer]

I think....LOL....

You sony fans can think all you like to and speculate all you want to, but xbox one & ps4 3rd party games will look and play the same...PERIOD!

Sony 1st party games will take advantage of the ps4's raw power and xbox one's 1st party games will take advantage of the CLOUD and xbox one's raw power! And BTW...Game developers can use all 8 gigs of ram in the xbox one, how ever they chose. The system reserves 3 gigs of ram when not playing games or when multitasking! MS reps have already debunked the misunderstanding that sony fans RAN with!

Bottom line is...when games are released and we can compare...that's when we will KNOW and not THINK! LOL...

Also, as proven this generation, you don't need to have the best graphics to be the best game! Each console will have great games. I'm not going to miss out on any of it! Both systems for me. Bring on the CLOUD!

In 5 years we will look back and wonder how we lived in an age where Everyone wasn't connected! Thanks MS for forward thinking! Times are changing. It's called evolution people!

[abzdine]

Damn! Does the new Xbox suck to this point? This is a disaster if it's true.

[DarkZane]

Except, devs only had to agree to the policy because the PS3 and 360 were closer to each others, but this time, I doubt most of the devs will agree and purposedly lower PS4 quality of their games since they can do so much more with it.

[fr0sty]

@elite

First of all, cloud computing is not exclusive to Xbone. Sony is actually farther ahead in that area than microsoft being that they just purchased a company that has been doing it (the world leader in cloud gaming no less) since 2008.

second, your quote that supposedly proves all 8gb's are accessible to games is bogus. the only thing it says is that the memory is unified as one 8gb block instead of having separate pools of memory for video, CPU, and sound like traditional PC's (and PS3 as well) have. in this case, the same is true on ps4. both consoles use one 8gb pool of RAM for both CPU and GPU. however, technically MS' ram approach is not unified at all because the GPU has to deal with the 32mb of ESRAM, which is a separate pool of memory and therefore complicates programming on the machine. In the quote you provided there was literally no mention whatsoever about the amount of RAM in that unified 8gb pool is set aside for the OS and what is set aside for gaming. The OS runs in the background at all times, so it is physically impossible to allow all 8gb's to be used by a game. A set amount HAS to be set aside for the OS to operate, and as of now all indications are that around 3gb's is what has been set aside. Take off those fanboy goggles, they're blinding you.

Not only does it only have access to 5gb, but it only has access to 90% of the GPU as well and only 6 cores of the CPU (the other 2 likely run the OS and kinect).

From Kotaku:

"1) Running: The game is loaded in memory and is fully running. The game has full access to the reserved system resources, which are six CPU cores, 90 percent of GPU processing power, and 5 GB of memory. The game is rendering full-screen and the user can interact with it."

http://kotaku.com/the-five-...

[starchild]

@BigFNHooters

Trying to pretend that the difference between PS4 and Xbox One is no different than the difference between PS3 and Xbox 360 is absolutely delusional.

The PS3 has a very powerful processor (Cell) and half of its RAM was very fast, but it was not the easiest architecture to harness. The exclusives are no doubt the best looking games on any console, but the multiplats often lagged a little behind.

This upcoming generation is COMPLETELY different. The PS4 has advantages across the board and the architectures are extremely similar. This means that the PS4 will easily be the better performing machine--in essentially every case!

PS4 exclusives will be even farther ahead of exclusives on other consoles, and multiplats should absolutely shine.

Edit: Oh, and for those of you who are claiming Microsoft had a policy that forced devs to make multiplats better on the 360 and worse on the PS3, just quit with that BS. It is complete and utter nonsense. Anybody that understands hardware and graphics knows exactly why multiplats sometimes were worse on the PS3. It has absolutely nothing to do with MS forcing devs.

PS4 has the better hardware and the same architecture, and reportedly better tools...I guarantee you it will result in better multiplatform games the vast majority of the time.

[Enemy]

Wow, Jonathan Blow really doesn't like Microsoft anymore.

[Mikeyy]

@Elite24Gamer

You are just clueless about Game development.

It doesn't work the way you think it does, and I'll give you some examples why.

First and foremost, Microsoft MUST reserve RAM for the OS (Operating System) The Xbox One has 3 OS's, with 1 being a sort of "Controller of the other two, allowing them to integrate".

There is no choice here, it must a finite number, every console has done this, the number reserved can be reduced later if need be (seen with the XMB on the PS3) but it can NEVER be increased. WHY? Easy.

Developers have to be given a finite number to work within the boundaries of. The Number is 5 GB. The reason? Let us "Assume" it works the way you THINK it will work. Remember consoles do not work exactly like your windows PC... Consoles operate in a STATIC ENVIROMENT when it comes to Hardware. Everything is Uniform.

~~Say developers have access to all 8 GB like you think they do. Say Halo 5 decides to be designed to use 7 GBs of RAM, This game will now take up 7 GBs of RAM every time you play it, it does not fluctuate, So now you decide you want to make a Skype phone call to your buddy Ted. What the hell? Your Xbox just crashed and you now have a blue screen. Why? Because the OS tried to call on the RAM that was already being used by Halo, It assumed the free space was there, even though it wasn't, so It dumped Halo 5 from the memory, or Dumped your OS, either way you crashed.

The OS reserves 3 GBs of space because Microsoft has determined that under FULL LOAD and all features, this is the reasonable amount of memory we should always have available, otherwise the system crashes, or simply cannot execute any other features besides the Current game running. ~~ Now leaving Elite24Gamer's bizarro world

Back to reality, Microsoft can NEVER EVER decide all the sudden the OS needs to use 4GBs of RAM, why? Because every single game made up till that day is already using 5GBs, they would all become useless.

Now Microsoft CAN decide to shrink the OS footprint, down to 2 GBs and give game developers 6 GBs to use, but then they can never ever take it back.

The games must be developed according to the specs of the system, they cannot exceed them, because then they won't work.

[andibandit]

@BigFnHooters

That gotta be some good weed you're smoking, hit me up man

[kevnb]

lol, its beyond arguing at this point. Theoretical benchmarks and ram bandwidth ftw! Go console wars!

[DrJones]

@BigFnHooters

The worst thing is that his absolutely ridiculous claim has the bubble comment: "Well said" attached to it. I am pro Sony, but this is simply taking it too far.

[MysticStrummer]

Hmmm should I believe Elite24Gamer, or should I believe an actual developer? Damn this is a tough one. I'm gonna sleep on it.

[fermcr]

More powerful or less powerful... who gives a crap (beside die hard fanboys) ? Multiplatform games are going to run practically the same and who thinks otherwise is delusional.

What's going to make the difference are the exclusives games, and Sony (in general) have more and a wider variety of exclusives then Microsoft. Unless Microsoft invests heavily on releasing more (and quality) exclusives this generation, i don't see that changing. Yearly releases of Halo, Gears and Forza is not going to cut it (at least not for me).

[torchic]

do people really believe this?

we might get a scenario where most multiplats are ported from PC down due to architecture. the more powerful your system the better it will run. it's simple man.

[ThatCanadianGuy514]

Apparently everyone gives a crap.This entire gen was a bragging fest simply because 360 had 512mb of unified ram whereas PS3 had 512mb split ram.

Something as insignificant as that was hoisted on a battle flag and used constantly.

PS4 annihilates nextbox spec-wise and now certain people think it shouldn't matter anymore.Funny how that works lol

[CalvinKlein]

except they wont run the same. You will see. Thats the main reason im getting ps4 over xbox-1, power. All the other things just make it that much easier.

[fourOeightshark]

It's a good thing i buy more exclusives than multi plats.

[MRMagoo123]

As much as the xbox fans want to believe multiplats will look mostly the same all you have to do is look at specs of them both side by side and you can see (with no fanboy glasses) that the ps4 will be able to pump out far better games in terms of draw distance, far less jaggies, more physics and particle effects and a far better frame rate. Its not about putting the xbone down its about the actual facts here and the ps4 is pretty far ahead on what its limits will be compared to the xbone

[MikeMyers]

The Xbox One is to blame for Killzone: Shadow Fall running at 30fps.

[MysticStrummer]

@MikeMyers - KZ was using less than half the available memory. I'm pretty sure that was a factor in it's performance. I want to see an updated version of that same demo.

"More powerful or less powerful... who gives a crap (beside die hard fanboys) ?"

Developers care, which is why it was good that Sony gave them some say in PS4's design. Now we've seen more than one article where devs praise PS4's design over One's. Play it off all you want, but that means something.

[nukeitall]

I laugh at this, because even with the increase in processing power around 8-10 times more than the current Xbox 360/PS3, the graphical difference isn't that big of a leap.

What do you think a 0.5 (half) times will do?

Keep in mind that PS3/Xbox 360 can do almost 720p, so at 1080p twice the pixel count, we got 8-10 times more power and more than 10 the amount of RAM.

I think we are reaching a point where graphics don't matter as much anymore and more about possibilities.

That said, even at comparable specs, MS has never pushed games the way Sony does by way of hardware.
They are a software company and therefore likes to abstract away the hardware. Make it easier to code for and allows for flexibility than draining performance.

That is why PS3 is closer to the metal that gives it an edge in squeezing out performance, yet evolution wise in software it hasn't changed much. While MS has no issues evolving the Xbox 360 dashboard and OS. MS planned for cross game chat/party chat, but Sony didn't and couldn't because Sony didn't have the flexibility in the software design i.e. memory constraints. It's important to note that the PS3 OS takes a larger memory footprint than Xbox 360 at 48MB vs 32MB.

So there is pros and cons. That is the way I like it. Choices!

How a software company and a hardware company envisions a platform!

I think we are really lucky to enjoy this!

[hesido]

Half times more performance suddenly won't let PS4 do stuff Xbox One cannot (the games will not look 1.5 times better, like you imply, the relation is not linear), but it will allow better framerates, better anti-aliasing, more eye-candy compared to XBone, and it will be easier for devs to hit performance targets. Having very similar architectures, high level optimizations done to get things faster on XBone should most of the time also benefit the PS4.

[TwistedMetal]

yep an this will make all the xbox fanboys who say crap about 30 fps look like hypocrits when they are playing 30 fps multiplats while ps4 has the superior version as well as the 60 fps version.

@dayZ
last gen they made a couple multiplat games better on x360 because it wasnt as confusing for them to make games for it at the start of the gen.

this new gen they cant afford to do that because ps4 will be more popular and have the bigger install base and just be so easy to develop for. i wouldnt pull punches on the ps4 hardware because other devs wont and by other devs i mean bungie annd rockstar and such. if call of duty dumbs down the ps4 version to look like the xbox one version then people will say meh to the game and its graphics and just get the new bungie game and that game could become the new call of duty type game of next gen. and call of duty could disapear like medal of honor. who knows anything can happen but it would be extremely dumb to take the risk of becomeing the next medal of honor fail because you want to dumb down a game to please ms who is not gonna be the big dominating console as you think.

[palaeomerus]

So 1.5 times "the power" (GPU shader units/teraflops) somehow means twice the frame rate?

[hesido]

It's a very valid question, but the possibility that 1.5 times the power providing double the frame rate is not entirely baseless. You may have cases where you get 55+ fps all the time on PS4 and it would be OK to go without Vsync, and cases where you have ~40 frames with XBone where the developer would have to vsync down to 30. (40*1.5 = 60). Very rough explanation but just a basic example of how 1,5 times raw power can mean double the amount of frames.

[Ju]

Don't think so. But more bandwidth certainly will help, too. Bandwidth throughput (from RAM) is more than double - which means a huge advantage reading large amounts of textures; even though the One has SRAM - which still is almost 50% slower. Frame rate is not only based on shader performance but also limited by bandwidth.

[PersonMan]

I'd like to believe every developer will be using triple-buffering.

[Tonester925]

I'm just confused on why Xbox would go cheap like this. Maybe because it's made in America lol

or..

They're trying to appeal to customers like iPhone hipsters who want to have something to show their friends when they come over.

[indysurfn]

Quick Bill Gates cover your ears! Sell those stocks (oh wait he sales million EVERY DAY). Hear that thumping sound Bill? Thats Japanese style, you like?

[dale_denton]

you already know microcrap are going to make devs thumb down the graphics for multiplats on ps4... they did it this gen and they'll do it next gen.

[DarkZane]

That will peobably not happen this time around since the PS4 is a lot more powerful than the Xbone, while the difference between the PS3 and 360 was just minimal.

Microsoft is gonna be at a disadvantage here. devs are gonna be: either we make our games on PS4 as good as we can or the Xbone is simply not getting it.

[GraveLord]

Yup. PS4 is obviusly the better console.
The XBone is a horrible piece of anti-consumer shit.

[cedaridge]

"BOYS and GIRLS Look like thing's are about to change round here!" psn: cedaridge
#make.believe in Long Live Play

[NextGen24Gamer]

My bet would be that the ps4 outsells the Xbox One at first. But, once friends of friends start seeing the games in action and all the cool things the xbox one can do outside of gaming...the tables will turn and turn quickly. Its funny because I was thinking why would Microsoft make a console that was less powerful than the ps4. Microsoft has all the money in the world, all the tech in the world, and a huge user base. But the more and more I read about the cloud and the infrastructure that Microsoft has built with thousands and thousands of servers....It all makes sense now. The xbox one is 10 times more powerful than the xbox 360...you can stop there and I as a gamer am pleased with just that...but then you add in the cloud and it gives developers 3x the power of one Xbox One and BAM!!!! You have games that will be 30x that of the xbox 360 games. That blows my mind and it's future proof! It's not limited by the hardware....The crazy part is, MS could always add more and more servers in the cloud and take that 3x the power and make that 6x the power halfway through the xbox ones life cycle and the Ps4 wouldn't be able to keep up. But heres the catch...the only way that works, is if developers know that 90% of the xbox one owners are CONNECTED!!!!! With the ps4, even if they wanted to play catch up and start building servers and adding that into their development tools...they would need to assure developers that everyone who has purchased a ps4 is connected! Not going to happen...and they are way too far behind. Ms has been planning this for 7 years and have an unbelievable amount of servers powering their cloud. As a Gamer, I'm IN! If people don't want their console connected and play the most high tech games...keep playing on your xbox 360 or buy a ps4. In 5 years we will all wonder how we lived in an era where we weren't connected online anyway!

[dedicatedtogamers]

It is interesting to see more of these news stories trickle out. Several developers have been pointing out how much weaker the Xbox One is in comparison with the PS4 (especially with the requirement of 3 Gigs of RAM, 2 GPU cores, and 10% processor power devoted solely to the three operating systems).

What is important to note is that - unlike last gen - the architecture of these two consoles is fundamentally the same. It will not be a repeat of last gen where PS3 was "technically" more powerful but it was much harder to develop for. This time, software is going to run much the same way on both consoles, except that PS4 will have more resources available for gaming. Devs have already been confirming that the PS4 is easier to develop for and has better middleware and tools available to developers.

[ThatCanadianGuy514]

The real question is - will developers cater to the lowest denominator? Will PS4 multiplats be dragged down to match the Nextbox version or will they actually use that extra power of PS4?

[Nykamari]

Yes they will cater to the lowest! Simple fact "I will spend a billion on content!" Why will I let my system look worst than my rival!

[AtomicGerbil]

Hard to say, we already know that both will be much the same to develop for. Microsoft will lose the advantage they had as the PS4 was designed by developers. The difference will come with optimizing, the PS4 in theory will need less optimizing so therefore will cost less in time and money to code for, unless of course a game is developed on the Xbox and ported in which case I suspect there will be very little difference.

[stuna1]

I believe their will be a lot more 3rd party exclusives coming to the PS4 due to the fact that Microsoft won't allow them on their system because the PS4 version could potentially be the better version! This is of course is if they still have that agreement of multiplat parity.

[MysticStrummer]

"The real question is - will developers cater to the lowest denominator?"

It's very possible, but the difference will be obvious with exclusives just like it was this gen. But, if MS is serious about using the cloud to increase power, there should be games that have variable levels to their performance. PS4 should always be at that upper level, given it's hardware advantage.

[SilentNegotiator]

Never stopped developers from having versions with resolution and AA differences, at least. Sometimes even texture definitions and other things.

[thebigman]

It's going to be interesting to see how differently games run on each system. I'd imagine that most devs would rather add more effects/physics/etc rather than optimizing for 60fps

[d0nT wOrrY]

BOOM

[sway_z]

When PS3 was gimped on some MP games ..I'm afraid we had to accept it....is this so hard to accept next gen? No, I don't believe so...PS4 has the edge, but the difference will be in 2-3 years, not at launch..and yes X1 will more than likely be identical with MP's for a time. It will be the 1st party titles that will set apart which console is more capable.

[Sarobi]

It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out in a years time after the devices have been launched.

[nthstew]

after this kind of statements from developers why buy xbox one over ps4........

[torchic]

bu..bu..but, cloud computing! Azure + Xbox One will magically account for 50% power difference without latency!

[sigfredod]

Plus PS4 + Gikai bam! take your cloud computing

[Count]

You can't even spell Gaikai properly. That's how much faith you have in it.

[stuna1]

@ Count

What does mispelling something have to do with someone putting faith in it abilities!?

[Eyeco]

Get a grip grammar Nazi, he missed one letter.

[Loki86]

Just stop your ignorance is absolutely ridiculous. Go read my last few posts to understand the difference.

[DonFreezer]

This is unaccepted.Microsoft better do something because 30 fps is the thing that bugs me the most in console gaming.

[MasterCornholio]

Sure they can always delay the console a couple of years to beef up the specs.

If Microsoft wants to release the console this holiday season you will just have to deal with the current specs.

@TrueNija

Your right that its up to the developers to determine the frame rate but what Blow is saying is that a game created to run at 30FPS on the XBONER can run 60FPS on the PS4.

[Tundra]

Saw this from a mile away. The GPU in the two machines are literally night and day. The PS4 has many more shader blocks/TMUs (768 cores vs 1152) which makes for a much easier time rendering the game.

[hesido]

I'm not sure if multiplats will use GPU compute, or how XBone's architecture handles it, but we clearly know PS4 is designed to do compute concurrently to graphics tasks, that means if devs choose to do so, they'll have all those extra compute units laying around to do more stuff with higher precision.

[Drainage]

Xbox go home you are drunk

[sandman224]

Only time will tell what big difference there are in game performance. Although we know multiplatforms will be made equally because of sales. The games that will push the console will most definitely be the exclusives. I can't wait to see the final version of killzone shadow fall.

[True_Samurai]

Hold on who says x1 can only only do 30fps? That's on the developers to do so

[Jake_the_Dog]

Ohhhhhhh!

http://25.media.tumblr.com/...

[HappyWithOneBubble]

lol best show on tv

[HappyWithOneBubble]

PS4 is more powerful. I know 1st party exclusives will be top notch but multiplats will most likely be equal on both consoles. MS will throw more money at 3rd party companies to keep it that way.

[Roper316]

MS says as long as the TV shows run @ 60FPS it's all good in Xbox land, who cares about frame rates for games? Gamers? MS says to that like we give a crap about them!

[BOLO]

Bubblez my friend you made my day lol.

[AllroundGamer]

so you can switch faster to TV...

[andrewer]

and PC...120fps ha!

[solidt12]

What games are you getting 120fps in? Because I know for a fact even with a Nvidia Titan you not getting 120fps with all settings up in Crysis. You must be talking about on low-Mid settings with everything turned off or you playing old games.

[andrewer]

lol no, I just saw a monitor that runs at 120Hz and heard that it's simply beautiful. I myself never played at that fps for real, because even getting 120 fps in a game (with my good ol' 15' inch monitor haha) means nothing because the monitor isn't 120Hz. Was just provoking :D

[FlyingFoxy]

120fps is smoother than 60, i got a 120hz monitor last year and if you get higher than 60 there is no need for vsync because there is little/no tearing when you get high fps.

Only issue is power, when we get games on release like Crysis, Obivion, Age of Conan etc.. that run poorly even on high end setups @ 1080p you are lucky to get 30 - 40fps which is pretty sad. It's hard to get a constant 60+ on some games, unless gpu power makes a big leap we won't be seeing games run well anywhere near 4K any time soon.

So 1080p is the sweet spot for 60+fps, don't bother getting another card in SLi/Xfire to try and hit 120 because it will add microstutter and defeat the purpose of high frame rates. Basically get a really good single card and hope the game isn't poorly optimized to hit nice frame rates with it.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Nope.

[PFFT]

Now all the Ps4 needs is a perfect price point and its set.

[nise-gamer]

Sony enchanced PS4 system archtecture secretly

Secrets of the PS4: Heavily modified Radeon, supercharged APU design
http://www.extremetech.com/...

[Jek_Porkins]

So a PS4 developer says this...sounds legit!

They both have basically the same power, you will never see a third party game run 60fps on one and 30fps on the other. There shouldn't even be a 30fps game on next generation.

[Supermax]

Just lol to the article moving on.

[Mroc13]

@ bighooters. I only own a ps3 but have seen 360. I am a PlayStation fan because i like their exclusives. Even so it was very obvious that for most games the 360 performed better. It had better frame rates, resolution, and graphics. Sony only won with their exclusives. Developers always struggled with the ps3 or probably didnt allocate enough resources. You need to get off that molly.

[6DEAD6END6]

Hey look on the bright side if you don't like the 30fps you can just watch tv lol.

[talisker]

With 60 FPS and the graphics you won't see anywhere else in 3 generations! :D

[DivineAssault]

MS had to sacrifice some power to keep those "entertainment" features running well & having a super kinect camera.. To keep it affordable, theres no way its going to match PS4 in game performance

[Cueil]

unless you start counting cloud computational power... Also each "os" exist on a virtual machine so there is nothing keeping some Microsoft from allowing some developers to eat away at the RAM or even put that virtual machine into a sleep state. Remember when XBLA could only be 512 megs

[DivineAssault]

PS4 has Gaikai cloud computing

[Cueil]

@DivineAssault if you had to put your personal money on who is going to have the more powerful cloud system who would you wager on?

[ramiuk1]

as much as i wanted xbox to dominate,now its main focus is TV (which i already have)im defo going ps4 as it seems moree gaming focused and thats what a console is for imo.

but i suppose price will always be a factor for most and regrding the topic of graphics i hope the devs use the power and dont just port games.
or if the ps3 easier to develop for its ported to xbox.

[BrianC6234]

It's too bad most people care too much about price. If you have two consoles and one is a lot more powerful but $50 more it's worth buying over the other one. It will do better with the games. Everyone needs to stop worrying so much about price. If you have it for over five years it isn't that much per year. You spend a lot more on games.

[Prcko]

gonna buy pc for that

[SlyFoxC]

is this the thread about replacing the turbo on my 91 honda?

[BrianC6234]

No, that's the next one down.

[SlyFoxC]

thanks man. i thought i was in the wrong place. only thing in this tread are a bunch of fanboys QQ'n

[linkenski]

Jonathan Blow has an interesting hook about making games but when it comes to statements like these i think he's crap. He's way too quick to take authority just because Braid got so much praise. I like it when famous people are humble, but sometimes this guy is just too much.

[travelguy2k]

I wish we could focus more on the positive aspects of have new consoles to choose from instead of bicker about why one is better than the other. Lets take a moment to thank Sony and Microsoft for not following in Nintendo's footsteps with their newest consoles.

They have their differences and that's great, if they didn't, and they were identical then whats the point of having 2? I prefer to have the option to choose which path i would like to take, or take both if i so choose.

I'm pro-choice in the console war, there is enough market share for both since Nintendo won't be taking much.

[Father__Merrin]

xbox core gamers should come over to playstation and quit bickering defending microsoft

[vigilante_man]

Its hardly a surprise following this week's reveal. One telling observation I have made reading this forum after both reveals:

After PS4 reveal, many PC gamers were getting involved as they saw a possible threat from Sony.
After the MS reveal I have not read any/many comments from PC gamers. They don't see MS as any kind of threat with the new console.

In fact many PC gamers seem to have a healthy respect for what the PS4 is trying to achieve - maximise performance and focus 100% on gaming.

Now would be a great time for us all to stop bickering amongst ourselves and instead concentrate on gaming.

The console war is officially over - lets get back to the true essence of games - FUN !!!!

[daedra]

you sony fans are pathetic

[BrianC6234]

No, you're sad and pathetic.

[BOLO]

Your Xflop One is pathetic.

Xbot...Take hurt out ass.

[Neonridr]

I would like to see if Sony can get their games running at 1080p/60fps. Games like Crysis 3 and Metro on PC need some serious graphics cards to run 1080p/60fps will all settings at maximum. Graphics cards that are superior to the PS4's graphics card. I am not saying we won't see 1080p/60fps on the PS4, but I would have to imagine that there will have to be some sacrifices in terms of quality when comparing to a PC setup running with all details at maximum.

[ssj27]

xbone go home

[BrianC6234]

Or maybe the Xbox One games will be 60 fps like the PS4 games but not as detailed. With the weaker RAM it will be up to the developers to decide what's more important. Just don't hold back on the PS4 games so they look the same. We know that isn't going to cut it. We had enough of that nonsense this generation.

[Foxgod]

Actually, adding extra frames is where the XB1 cloud could come in, part of the frames could be rendered in the cloud and streamed to the Xb1.

[Metfanant]

yeah...right...

offload "part of the frames" to the cloud? What happens when i get some network lag? does the frame rate drop? What if my internet is down? do i get a lower quality experience?...

Do the developers optimize their games for the cloud? what happens to those that don't have XBL Gold? or not internet at all?...even though they pay the same price for the console and games do they deserve to be treated like second class gamers with a game that doesn't perform or look as well??

[Foxgod]

IF your internet drops, you get the standard quality that comes from the disc.

That should not be a big deal, because without the cloud you would only have what the xb1 can offer out of the box.

And PSN also got a + account that gives them a slightly better treatment.

[Metfanant]

@Fox

don't say IF...because anyone that has played online knows that it just simply DOES from time to time...so how does the console handle this?...

you didn't even make an attempt at addressing my questions..are those without internet second class gamers? should those that don't have access to good enough internet be treated to lesser quality games?...

no matter how you spin it...just about every step MS has taken with the Xbone is anti consumer...

i know all about PS+ as ive been a member since the day it launched and been playing Xbox online since the Halo CE days over XBconnect and a live member since Halo 2...PS+ doesn't change the gaming experience one bit...a friend that doesn't pay, doesn't have to suffer with a lower quality experience...

[wishingW3L]

that cloud thing I need to see first to believe.

[Flames76]

The PS2 and the PS3 got crushed in the graphic department by the Xbox.So this gen will be no different.COD Ghost alone crushed everything sony showed at their PS4 conference

[Metfanant]

Uncharted, GoW, and Killzone series say "hi"

Ghosts is not even the best looking multiplatform game that has been shown..

[Sarobi]

I think there might be something wrong with your eyes... and your brain.

[Sharky5]

i'd like to know how Johnathon would know what the Xbox One can or can not do?? since hes never laid his grubby hands on MS's machine??...and since we now know that Xbox One will be able unload some its heavy processing onto the cloud, don't get me wrong...i'm getting both machines, i just think he or anyone else making statements like that should have all their ducks in line first

[urwifeminder]

So games like braid and arcade yeah why not everything else just no keep dreaming.

[shadyiswin]

how about we wait till the consoles are released? you ps4 idios fail to realize that people who buy consoles do not care and look into specs .its the same with ios vs android,everyone knows the galaxy s4 blows the iphone 5 out of the water but you can't stop people for buying iphones,granted the galaxy s4 is doing very well and i love them but i understand how marketing works and so does microsoft,they know they will sell millions to families and the hardcore will be on board cause of the halo,gears,forza and countless others they have in works,the games will be there that's a giving, i love the xbox OS the achievements,the cross chatting so even if there was a noticeable graphic difference i wouldnt mind now with that said i guarantee you wont see any differences in graphics or performance unless its in xbox favor which im sure developers will cozy up microsoft because they got that $$$,find this post in a year from now and feel silly/embarrassed how the xbox is selling like mad,

[leemo19]

Probably won't get this game not my type of game, but what he said probably will happened it really depends on who's developing the game.

[isyourhouseonfire]

Its halarious that people think the PS4 - which so far exists on paper - is faster than the XBOX ONE which is a REAL console. The PS4, in theory, gets ZERO frames per second as of this moment.

So yeah... this article is waaaaay off.

[Metfanant]

I find it even more hilarious that you want us to believe that roughly 6 months out from launch Sony has no hardware...

[Thunderhawkxbox]

Sony spending their money so well to this kiss ass dev saying ps4 is better and how 1.2 tf compare to 1.8 tf is 50% more powerful lol kiss ass dev I'm sure they paid you good money

[jmr99]

The Xbox 1 (aka PS4 Mini aka PS4 Lite) sure is a colossal disappointment. Microsoft are trying to cut costs and save money in order to create the biggest gap they can btwn selling price and production cost. In other words, the Apple approach: rape your customers. Kudos to Sony for 1152 cores and gddr5.