Cerny and Ito talk about Backward Compatibility and x86 Architecture

Sony’s decision to cut out backward compatibility for the PlayStation 4 was apparently not an easy one. True, Dave Perry (founder of the cloud gaming platform Gaikai) suggested during the PS4′ s reveal back in February that it’s Gaikai’s goal to include the full spectrum of the PlayStation line-up of titles (as detailed in the latter of part one of our report on the PS4′s announcement), but – unfortunately – it seems that PS3 gamers will not be able to play their PS3 games on the new machine via traditional means.

[iGAM3R-VIII]

good read, I have a lot of respect for Cerny, great guy

[miyamoto]

and 3 disrespectfuls disagreed with you

[arronax-1]

To hell with them

[Skips]

I'm curious about the whole “try for free, and pay only for games you fall in love with.”...

So, do we get like, one free play through? And if we like it, we buy it? lol ...Interesting.

I'm still hoping for the whole. "Insert disc, PS4 reads content, and stream said game for free". Would be even better IMO.

[porkChop]

He meant instant streaming demos for every game. But instead of demos it would be more like the 60 minute trials on PS3.

[Skips]

^^^

OOOH, ok. Gotcha, thanks for explaining. lol

Instant demos for EVERY game sounds pretty cool. Still hoping for the "Insert disc, stream game" idea though. :/

Nonetheless, it seems like Gaikai and PS+ is going to be well worth the investment. :D

[KwietStorm_BLM]

What do you mean insert disc stream game for free? Are you talking about PS3 discs?

[Blackdeath_663]

@KwietStorm
he means that by inserting a ps3 disk into the ps4 the console can confirm that you have previously purchased the game and allow you to stream it of gaikai for free without paying for the service this idea was purposed as a solution to backwards compatibility by people online but it is very unlikely as they would of had to have made the ps3 games surrounding this idea from the start. it was just a suggestion/wish that some people have taken as speculation or even rumour but there is absolutely nothing that this will ever happen, is even possible or is being considered.

[Aceman18]

i'm keeping my PS3 so i won't have an issue of no B/C, plus i'd rather a reasonable priced system this time around.

[Monkeysmarts]

Keeping my PS3 as well. It's a no-brainer. I have no desire to play PS3 games on PS4... I want PS4 games on PS4.

[Pillsbury1]

Yup, still have my ps2 for ps2 and ps1 games. Keeping ps3, too much invested in it. Would rather have a low priced console.

[memots]

well i am keeping my ps3 for sure. But i do like to have the option of leaving my ps3 in the rec room and ps3 in my living room and be able to access all my ps3 content on my ps4.

This is not a deal breaker for me but still i would love to have full psn/disc B/C

[MYSTERIO360]

I think it would be great if Sony somehow allowed PS3 games to be registered on the PS4 and then streamed via Gaikai for free.

[avengers1978]

The sad fact is, why include b/c in any new console, when they can re- release any game they want on there stores later on, and gamers will re-buy them.

[Ashunderfire86]

Well Look on the bright side, at least from time to time, you can get some games for free every month. Well only if your a PS plus member. No huge loss guys!!!

[avengers1978]

I have plus and free games are great... If you own a ps3 you should definitely get a PS Plus membership

[ijust2good]

I'm hoping for Uncharted and other top game of this gen to get true FULL HD(1080p)60fps remake..

[starchild]

No backwards compatibility is a pretty big deal to me. There is no way I am going to keep something like 6 or more consoles hooked up to my tv just so I can play all my favorite games.

Games, much like movies, are works of art. They aren't suddenly worthless to me just because something newer comes along.

There are hundreds of amazing games on PS1, PS2 and PS3 that I won't realistically be able to play any longer. My fat PS3 with backwards compatibility is dying and it makes me sad that there will be no BC in the PS4. It has always been something I loved about Sony consoles.

[monkey nuts]

All I do is keep my old consoles neatly tucked away in storage boxes then if I feel like playing some mgs3 subsistence or super ghosts and goblins I remove the system from the discreetly placed box and set it up on one of the tvs at my house. It takes minutes, literally.

[Majin-vegeta]

I was saddened when i heard the PS4 would have no BC.But if it helps keep cost downs then i'm all for it.Honestly people just do i what did.I have a HDMI switcher with 3 of my PS3 hooked up to it.When i ever i feel i want to play PS4 vice versa.I can just press a button and right away i can start playing.

http://www.amazon.com/Switc...

[nukeitall]

@Majin-vegeta:

"Honestly people just do i what did.I have a HDMI switcher with 3 of my PS3 hooked up to it"

Why would you have "3" (as in three) PS3s hooked up to one TV?

[WitWolfy]

For CFW reasons of course!

[GDDR6_2014]

Somebody tell him the Xbox mini idea, not too late to go for real backward compatibility Sony

[Loki86]

So I think this pretty much confirms you will need to rebuy all your PS3 games with a try/buy incentive. Oh well, was going to get a PS3 for Last of Us, Uncharted, and Two Souls, looks like I will hold off till next gen.

[koehler83]

Doesn't confirm anything. It's a safe assumption that it won't be free.

I've always assumed the Gaikai BC service would be a subscription based, all-you-can-eat streaming service like Netflix. (If it happens at all.) $5 or $10 a month for the entire PlayStation back catalog seems like a reasonable proposition to me. You would be paying for some stuff you've already got, but you're also paying for thousands of things you don't.

It's a better bet to just keep the stuff you already own.

[colonel179]

That would be a really nice service. If it is done well, the infrastructure and design is there, then it will be very convenient. Paying monthly for every PS, PS2 and PS3 game sounds reasonable, since there are a lot of games that even at $10 each would cost more than the service for a year. Also, it is a great to play games otherwise wouldn't have played.

But then again, the service would have to work really good.

[Th4Freak]

Actually no, read the article. Kieran Mackintosh: "it seems that PS3 gamers will not be able to play their PS3 games on the new machine via traditional means".

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Doesn't confirm a thing. They could easily offer a Gaikai app at a subscription price to stream the whole catalog or break it up into sections. They could also offer a higher tier to PlayStation Plus with Gaikai bundled for cheaper than the standalone price of both individually. You could actually end up having access to more games that are currently in your library.

[Lvl_up_gamer]

I have been saying this since the day Gaikai was bought by Sony.

Gaikai+PS+ = New online PSN.

It will be around $60 a year and you will have most if not all of Sony's 1st party titles/published by Sony and some 3rd party titles all from the PS1 to the PS3 (maybe even PS4) libraries.

I think this is a great idea for sony, however it does have it's issues.

1) Internet bandwidth caps. (not everyone has unlimited internet)

2) Internet speeds. What is the latency going to be like? Not everyone has high speed internet

3) Cost. I am assuming it will be $60 a year but it could be even more.

I would love to play some Jet Moto without having to plug in my PS1.

[InTheZoneAC]

you'll just hold off forever since you missed many more great games than just uncharted...

[RandomDude655]

For God loved the world, he gave his only Cerny

[shikamaroooo]

It would be awesome is Gaikai was Subscription based. I would be more than happy to pay X amount of dollars a month, to play unlimited PS3 games through gaikai.

[MrBeatdown]

I doubt it will be, just based on what Plus has to offer now.

The only thing different here is that the games are streamed instead of downloaded. It's still content, and like any content, publishers want to get paid. I don't see them settling for less just because it's delivered differently.

Plus gets four or five games per month for $50 a year. There's no way publishers would approve of having dozens, if not hundreds of their PS3, PS2, and PS1 games all available for a similar price. Basically the same reason Netflix has a limited selection.

My guess is that streaming won't be a service, or at least one that offers a huge chunk of old games. They'll just offer a streaming option along with any download. A universal "cross-buy" program of sorts. Buying a game, streaming or as a download, gets you access to every delivery method. It wouldn't be one or the other. So for example, if I buy PS Allstars on any platform, I'd get the downloadable versions for all platforms, and have the option to stream it on PS4 included.

That allows Sony to have PS+ on day one as well. They can keep offering PS3 games, but they can be played through a PS4 and Vita.

[yewles1]

My only wish is to just have Gaikai integrated into PS+, with only a marginal rate increase...

[KwietStorm_BLM]

What do you consider marginal?

[yewles1]

I believe $60/year, $19/90 days should be acceptable...

[BitbyDeath]

They can probably only increase it marginally otherwise everyone will just stack 10-50 years on at the current rate and be set.

[MasterCornholio]

I believe that PlayStation plus should have two tiers because many people don't have a good enough internet connection to support Gaikai streaming unless Gaikais infrastructure is extremely well done.

Everyone loves the gamed that come with plus but not everyone can take advantage of a streaming service due to the quality of their internet connection.

Motorola RAZR i

[user7693958]

GAIKA must be free with all the features..
in the end is not really free you need to own, buy a PS4! but you got the point..
cloud store should become free to, a limited one but it should be a free option.

Or a one time payment per user name. let say.. $50 or $100 one time payment..
but it will divide the PS4 user base in a huge time and ruin the PS4 eco system.. I will not pay a monthly fee for it, f@#$% no..

[CaulkSlap]

With the Cell being a dead-end technology it just didn't make sense to add b/c by any means. You would need essentially all PS3's component chips jammed into PS4s box as well. Add a whole lot to the cost.

Personally I'd love to pay $600+ for a special edition PS4 that includes PS3 and PS2 chips internally, Just doesn't make sense financially to have engineers redesign the whole thing for the small market of us who would want it.

[WitWolfy]

I'd get that in a heart beat!

[dboyman]

Me too! I want that as well!!!!

[wishingW3L]

with the PS4 specs the PS2 software emulation should be quite easy. PCSX2 is x86 and runs on lower specs than the PS4 so there is no excuse.

[M-M]

Backwards compatibility shouldn't even be something to be worried about. I'm going to have both the PS3 and PS4 hooked up, because I know not everyone on my PS3's friends list will not be able to afford a PS3 right off the bat. Plus, there are a lot of games I need to finish but just haven't gotten around to it. As for the Cell processor, I don't even think Sony would do it in the future, would make manufacturing costs rise which is not what Sony wants.

[Mr_Writer85]

What gets me is in terms of tech jump this isn't as big as the PS2 to PS3.

Now the PS3 had BC, was a much bigger up in tech and cost almost $600. Yet people freaked out and didn't buy it.

Yet they are saying they would pay $600 for a PS4 that played PS3 games? Hmmm you are more then likely a small % so it wouldn't be worth it.

[koehler83]

I haven't seen anyone say they'd pay $600.

Anyone you've seen say that is probably lying or at least in a very small minority of the general market.

[Mr_Writer85]

Caulkslap just two posts up said he would, but yeah that's my point.

In 5 years time hopefully we will be able to say that BC was sacrificed for 'the greater good'. As it allowed Sony to produce a cheaper and developer friendly console, which then produced some of the best console games ever.

[DivineAssault]

i must admit that i RARELY actually beat PS1 & PS2 games on my phat.. I popped em in to toy around but never sat there & played em all the way.. Thats one reason i dont care if its BC..

Another is that im keeping my PS3 as a blu ray player for my bedroom & will play whatever games i missed or want to replay in there (though it wont be on my 55in LED)

Lastly, theres nothing i can do about it.. I refuse to miss out on the new console, its features, apps, & games because i want to hold on to 8 yr old tech.. I might not ever turn on my PS3 again except for blu rays after i get PS4.. Unless of course that one rare beautiful gem of a game exclusive releases for PS3 while PS4 is already on the market..

Sorry but the new feats on the PS4 outweigh my sentimental ties to PS3.. I think ill live & support this decision!

[Rusty515]

PS4 has blu-ray too dude.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

He's talking about for movies, or just to have a Blu-Ray player in his bedroom.

[blackbirdi]

guys stop posting old stuff

[1OddWorld]

I hope they don't go with the subscription based system. I would like to by some games from the back catalog but Ill be spending most of my days playing PS4's new game catalog. I do hope that this is a cloud based streaming service though, You buy a game and it stays in the cloud allowing you to access it from any device makes since to me for the direction they are going.

[Droid Control]

Its a real shame Mark didn't design the PS3. We wouldn't be here discussing backwards compatibility. It would be a given. Sony were right to fire Ken.

[NYC_Gamer]

The PS brand wouldn't exist without Ken

[Droid Control]

Doesn't matter. Ken dropped the ball with the PS3, his mistakes allowed Microsoft to one up the playstation.

What matters is what we do today, not yesterday.

[WeAreLegion]

One up?

How exactly did they do that?

[DanyBrown]

Ken Kutaragi developped the ps1 and ps2 he didnt get it wrong there did he and as i see it the ps3 isn't a failure either.
It was my understanding that he resigned though i might be wrong here.

[vigilante_man]

I still have my PS2 which I play on. PS3 was such a leap in graphics and storage (BluRay and HDD) so BC never bothered me that much.

The best thing about the PS3 for longevity is the ability to put in almost any size laptop drive or SSD. I will be buying a PS4 THIS year (I hope) but will still play my PS3 for many years yet.

There have been some amazing games this gen. They may start to look a little dated in a couple of years when we are getting used to next-gen games but a great gaming experience is a great gaming experience. So I foresee many happy hours yet on my PS3.

I am even thinking about getting another one. The cheap 12GB SSD because I have so many Laptop drives around. And even the very fast Hybrid XT 500GB drives can be had for £60. Thanks to PS+ I have a massive backlog of games to play.

And to think analysts were saying only a year ago that the gaming industry was on its last legs!

[Prcko]

knack day 1 buy

[WeAreLegion]

Absolutely. I can't wait!

[Kidmyst]

Oh well, If I want to play a PS3 game or PS2 game I'll just hook the system to the TV and play. My Man Cave has backwards compatiblity in it.

[TemplarDante]

With a PS4, Im guessing it price tag at $450.
With a PS3 price cut to $150.
The guys at Neogaf found a LinkedIn profile of a Sony Engineer designing a PS3 CELL CPU with 3SPUs at 6.4GHz. So expect a super duper slim PS3 at a much lower price.
Considering the "add on xbox360mini" would cost $150 and it links with the Xbox720 for BC, I dont mind buying a Super duper slim PS3 and have that for BC if my PS3 breaks over the next few years.
Then again, that PS3 of mine has been going strong since 2007, lets hope it keeps on keepin on :)

[Dan_scruggs]

If the PS4 want to be like a PC so badly they should remember that when I buy a new PC all my old games still work.

[_-EDMIX-_]

? This comment makes no sense. PC is only BC based on still using the same designs. PS4 is more like PC, but PS3 and PS2 and PS1 are not. Thus it can't be like those systems.

ie PS5 will likely have BC cause its using PC style design for the games. Same with the sequel of 720.

[Dan_scruggs]

I call bullshit on Sony for not including backwards compatibility. I think they could include it but they want everyone to re-buy their games through the online store so it eliminates the physical copies and waywardly kills the used games market. It's exactly what people are afraid Microsoft will do with an always online Xbox but everyone seems to be blind to Sony doing that exact same thing.

[sprinterboy]

At the end of the day sony will want to sell the PS3 for another 3 or 4 years at least so cutting out the BC is a good idea imo, be great if you can subscribe to Gaitek and get some sort of BC though inserting your PS3 games collection though

[4lc4pon3]

keeping my PS3 no matter what. It will look sexy sitting next to my PS4.

[AKS]

I thought I would use backwards compatibility a lot more than I actually did with the PS3. I had one of the original 60 GB PS3s, so I had BC covered, but I didn't actually use it much after a year or so. It's nice to have, but it's not a major issue for me.

[SkullBlade169]

PS1 and PS2 BC should be easy. Your average x86 based PC can emulate PS1 and PS2 games easily. It annoys me that they aren't even considering this.

PS3 games however, I understand why they would not implement this. Even the most powerful PCs out there could not emulate the PS3, and including real PS3 hardware inside the PS4 would not be cost effective.

The fact that the PC I am using right now can run PS1 and PS2 games easily through emulation annoys me though, since they're using modern PC hardware for the PS4 and apparently can't achieve the same result...

Edit: Well okay, perhaps not the "average" PC can emulate the PS2 just fine, but I'm running a Core i5 2500k and that can emulate the PS2 just fine, and it's by no means a high end CPU, surely the PS4's CPU should be better than this midrange CPU that I bought over a year and a half ago?