Why 60 fps is a must for the PS4 – A Comparison Between 30 fps and 60 fps

"Most of the developers will be aiming for 30 fps and 1080P for the PS4 but there is a noticeable difference between the two. We expect that developers will making 60 fps as standard, atleast for certain genres like racing and sports games. Whether this will turn out true for complex genres like role playing or open world games, remains to be seen."

[MariaHelFutura]

It depends on the type of game more than anything. If every games was 60fps it would be nice, but it's not an issue at all.

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

So which games should have smooth animations and a smooth experience and which game shouldn't? 60fps bottom line. Simply becuz it's about to be 2014.

Sorry but only console only gamers say this type of thing.

In what game should have 1080p and what games does it not matter?

[Xof]

Framerate and animation smoothness are two very different thing.

High-framerates are really only necessary in action games, where there's a lot of movement. They're of very little importance with 2D games, turn-based games, puzzle games, adventure games, etc.

This is why you see people complaining about the framerate for games like Dark Souls and Dragons Dogma, but not Catherine or Disgaea.

[isarai]

i've seen plenty of games with 30fps have smooth animation, and i've seen games run at 60fps with very rigid and shitty animations. more frames doesn't mean better animations. I don't even know how you made that connection

[ChronoJoe]

In fairness there are plenty games like Uncharted 3 and Gears of War which both run at 30 FPS but run, and animate very smoothly.

Games like Battlefield, Killzone and Far Cry often use lower framerates as an excuse for why they feel a little 'clunky', awkward to control, or lesser animated than their 60 FPS counterparts.

However the reality is that 30 FPS is, whilst not ideal, very acceptable. And the aforementioned titles (Uncharted 3 in particular) are living proof that games can run smoothly and look great at 30 FPS.

It's games like Far Cry 3 that have noticeable problems. Far Cry 3 dips between 30 and about 15 frames per second, when it's running at 30 it's a pretty decent experience, but as it dips own to the lower ranges it's really quite awful.

However a lesser known fact is how framerates tie to input lag. So there are some genres with more timing intensive gameplay very much dependent on higher framerates. For example if your framerate is 60fps, the minimum input lag is 17ms, but on 30fps, the minimum input lag is 32 because the game can only respond on the next available frame.

So that's another something to consider. Games like Thief which are slow and metholodical will probably not suffer from running on 30 frames per second, over 60, whereas games like Street Fighter V, would.

[decrypt]

After all the boasting 1080p 60fps for next gen consoles.

Watch as most console gamers defend 30fps, specially the PS fans.

Funny watching the same people who touted 1080p 60fps for PS4 now defend 30fps. So much for competing with high end PCs. More like Low end now.

Edit: So now frame rate acceptance depends on genre lol.

[cayleee]

Clearly Sony needed to pack more GDDR5 RAM 8GB wasnt enough.

16GB or maybe 32GB would have given us the results, nvm the GPU or the CPU those are unrelated.

[nukeitall]

Like most things, this is blown way out of proportion.

I bet most of you in a blind test can't tell the difference between 30fps or 60fps. Heck, I'm not even sure most of you can tell apart 720p from 1080p.

Point being, the visual part of this has minimal impact.

What you should ask is, how responsive does the game need to be?

@Xof:

"Framerate and animation smoothness are two very different thing."

They are and aren't. Basically if you have a higher frame rate, you *can* have smoother animation than 30fps. However, higher frame rate does not guarantee smooth animation if the developer didn't implement it as such.

No more than 1080p is a better picture than 720p if all you do is display 8-bit graphics or show a blank screen.

You have to take advantage of the 60fps to get smoother animation. To my eyes, I can't really tell the difference between 30 and 60 personally.

@cayleee:

"Clearly Sony needed to pack more GDDR5 RAM 8GB wasnt enough."

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or serious, but 8GB is already overkill for games and most other uses even if that is total combined for GPU/CPU.

There is a cost to all this, and I would like that to be in the affordable region for a large portion of people.

[Washington-Capitals]

60fps vs 30fps
In shooters makes a huge difference. Especially in online play.

Black Ops vs Modern Warfare. Blackops overall is a better more polished game but the gameplay doesnt compare with MW. In MW you can play on a 3 bar, in black ops you are screwed on a 3 bar.

[snipermk0]

ummm is it just me of do both the comparison GIFs look the same? :[

[pete007]

@cayleee,why not putting 10 times more to see what happens?? or go only 4gb with a faster gpu?
i´d prefer the second option, RAM alone does nothing, RAM is only for storing and moving data, nothing else.

[thechosenone]

"We were told [PS4] was 4GB originally," Gilray told us, "and we first knew it had 8GBs when Mark said at the event's stage, 'And it has 8GB of memory.' >We'd had kits at that point for a good while."<

"Gilray's comments suggest that third-party developers could have been developing PS4 games targeting lower system requirements than the console's actual capability - which could go some way to explaining the suspected 30fps cap on the Unreal Engine 3-powered Thief."

http://www.videogamer.com/n...

[MariaHelFutura]

60fps- Battlefield, Killzone, Gran Turismo, GOW. 30fps- LBP, Journey, GTA V. To answer your question, of course this is all my opinion. To bad we can't conversate more, it's been longer than 15 mins....

[ProjectVulcan]

30FPS good, 60FPS better.

Shiny graphics good, Shinier graphics better.

Take your pick, one or the other. The developers will really chose, and most of them will chose 30FPS and shinier graphics.

Really that's just the end.

[starchild]

This whole discussion of 30 fps vs 60 fps is misguided, in my opinion.

What we should really be demanding in our console games is frame-rate consistency. On PC we can always overcome limitations, but on console if a game has a juddery frame-rate, we are stuck with it.

Yes, 60 fps is better than 30 fps, but I would take a stable 30 fps (Uncharted 2 by and large is a good example) over a stuttery 60 fps anyday.

Console gamers should ask for a stable 30 fps, no screen tearing and decent anti-aliasing in EVERY game. This should be the standard on consoles.

[RioKing]

Lol, we are 4 months into 2013 and already I'm reading things like "it's about to be 2014". Well then heck, if you round it up...it's almost 2015! Which is practically 2016! Sorry for my sarcasm -_-

[SilentNegotiator]

30fps isn't "not smooth" no matter how much insisting elitists do.

[Axe99]

Haha - I rarely get 60fps when playing PC games either - remember, _most_ PC gamers (just check the Steam Hardware Survey) do not have GTX680s or HD 7850s. Hell, even with my new GTX 660 Cities in Motion only does around 30fps on large maps, and the Witcher 2 is about 45fps.

There's PC gamers, and then there's a small group of tech-focussed, highly invested PC gamers with rigs that pump out insane resolutions and frame rates. I'm a PC gamer (as well as console), and for me I'm pretty relaxed about frame rates.

[Gaming101]

Looking at those comparisons between 30 and 60 FPS... and PS4 won't have all of its games at 60 FPS? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOObody cares.

[TheRealSpy]

You can take any average PC and adjust the game settings to match ps3/360, and you'd easily be able to run just about every game at 60fps.

sure, if you try to crank the graphics all the way up, that might not be the case for every game.

[Dee_91]

You dont really notice fps in character animations.You will notice it with camera movement and the actual character moving across the camera.
For me its not as big of an issue as some make it.Same with 1080p.HD looks HD to me, rather it be 720p or 1080p I cant tell any real difference.

[MaxXAttaxX]

Seriously, a game running at 30fps CAN have very smooth animations and a 60fps game can have mediocre animations and frame drops. When you watch movies filmed in 24fps are they choppy?

It's about CONSISTENCY.

So 'MariaHelFutura' is right. It depends on the game.
___

http://www.videogamer.com/n...
Games shown at the reveal, such as Killzone, were only using about 2GBs.

[kupomogli]

@decrypt

It was the Nintendo fanboys that said every Wii U game was going to run at 1080p with 60fps.

@nukeitall

"I bet most of you in a blind test can't tell 30fps over 60fps."

Why wouldn't you think so? It's not difficult. 30fps is very noticeable while 60fps you can't notice any judder. Like it's silky smooth.

30fps is so easy to notice that even in this slow motion video of Battlefield 3 PS3 vs PC, you can visually see the PS3 framerate because there's the judder between movement on PS3 compared to no judder on the PC version.

The PS3 has screen tear as well, but you'll notice the difference as it's across the entire image.

www.eurogamer.net/articles/di gitalfoundry-face-off-battlefi e ld-3?page=4

[Gamer1982]

Thing about 60fps is not all TV's can actually display it. People don't realize this. PC gamers have no issue as they run monitors for games but unless your TV is 60hz or higher you cannot even see 60fps.

[Dude420]

I'm primarily a PC gamer and preferably play games at around 60 FPS. However, I can tell you that you don't need 60 FPS in many games. IMO, games that benefit from the higher amount of frames are ones that require precision. This includes FPS's and to some extent RTS's (like Starcraft 2). There's more responsiveness to your movement.

However, when I look at games like Uncharted, Gears, God of War etc..., I can see that 60 FPS is not needed to enjoy the game. This is because the gameplay doesn't require you to have huge reflexes like other faster faced games.

So in the end, it really depends on the game.

@ Gamer1982

I'm pretty sure a vast number of people have LCD's now, my brother's TV from 2007 runs at 60 Hz. Also, unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure most CRT's (if not all) run higher than 60Hz.

[Feralkitsune]

I'm a PC gamer and I agree. This is only an issue for games that need the fluidity. I'd gladly sacrifice my FPS for better visuals, physics, and gameplay.

[papashango]

came across this on reddit awhile back.

best example of fps i've found so far.

http://htmlpaste.com/19d372...

[nveenio]

There's nothing wrong with 30fps. When you watch a movie, you watch at sub-30fps speeds, and there are no complaints. In fact, when The Hobbit brought higher frame rates, it actually made the movie look awkward. So there should be a good balance between overkill and pretty. I trust the developers to draw that line for their specific game.

[CalvinKlein]

uhh clearly the games that push the visuals will be lower than 60fps.

I dont get why people are expecting some set resolution or FR. for one FR fluctuates usually in each game already. we will even see PS4 games at 20FPS im sure.

[masa2009]

But with a closed system there will always be the incentive to add gameplay features and cut the framerate a bit to make it possible.

And really PC is doing pretty much the same, it's not a closed system but every time you add features you cut down the number of users/machines that can run the game at 60 FPS.

[MaxXAttaxX]

Why does the 120 look like 60, 60 like 30 and 30 even lower? Seems inaccurate.

[ATi_Elite]

If your gonna Bragg and Boast about graphics and 8GB GDDR5 then you better have a GPU capable of pumping out AAA games at 1080p @ 60 fps with post processing on.

having to drop down to 720p to get 60 fps shows the limits of a GPU.

60 fps is important cause it is butter smooth gaming at high fidelity and no dropped frames. Drop Frames will get you killed in MP mode which is why 30 fps sucks in MP mode.

Don't Bragg about graphics but then FAIL to deliver the Gold Standard, 1080p 60fps post processing On.

Don't sit there and say 60 fps doesn't matter when every Dev wishes all their games ran at 1080p 60 fps post processing on.

60 fps mattered back in teh day when Snes, Genesis, Neo Geo, Turbo GFX 16 ran games at 60 fps

[MariaHelFutura]

I don't brag or boast about anything, that's your job...

[princejb134]

It does not matter
Not all games require 60fps to run smoothly
Only games with a lot of action require it

Uncharted is a perfect example where it was locked at 30fps and it ran very smooth

I fell like this generation is to concerned with numbers even if many cant tell the difference
This includes 1080p and 720p

[zebramocha]

@ati if they drop the resolution that doesn't necessarily mean the gpu is weak,they could be pushing an effect or do something that's to demanding so a comprimise is made.

[Jobesy]

@Ati, "Don't sit there and say 60 fps doesn't matter when every Dev wishes all their games ran at 1080p 60 fps post processing on."

You're wrong: http://n4g.com/news/1225997...

Devs that aren't lazy will strive for and achieve 60 fps for most games, but some just don't bother.

[BrianC6234]

The PS4 can definitely handle it. Developers probably don't want to bother with it for their first games. They'll for sure go with 60 fps later though. First generation games never take advantage of the power any new console has.

[cayleee]

@Brian

I wouldnt hold my breathe, people made the same claims for PS3. As the gen went on the games suffered with lower FPS instead of going higher.

EX: Farcry 3, Crysis 3, Skyrim, Mafia 2 etc.

Its simply due to devs pushing graphics further. Hence dont expect to see 60fps later on, if you dont see it now. History just has a way of repeating itself.

[Coach_McGuirk]

if these guys saw their precious sony exclusives at 60 fps there's no way they'd accept 30 ever again.

[esemce]

Well said I'm sick of console only fanboys saying 60fps does not matter, it f@king well does especially for FPS's/Racing and fighting game and even more when it's online MP.

Sadly I think the next consoles will go for visuals over framerate, I'd rather have 60fps@720p than 30fps@1080p for the above mentioned games.

Suppose I will have to play 3rd party games on PC still for the performance and consoles for the exclusives.

[pete007]

am with you ATI_elite, silly to see ps´s hardcore only to bash other systems, when it comes to higher demands, they go soft.
WE both play for sure at the GOLD standard since the early days of DX10, till now.
i dont accept less than that for me. the day my rig chunks at 1080P@60 full detail, ill just rebuild a stronger one.

[kneon]

60fps is over rated, even in MP. On consoles it doesn't matter because everyone else is in the exact same boat so you are competing on a level playing field.

I'd rather have better graphics and physics than 60fps. And better graphics are not just for making things look pretty. If we had good enough graphics then games wouldn't have to resort to highlighting which fuzzy blob on the screen is the ammo/health pack/power up etc. You would be able to tell what it is just by looking at it, just like in the real world.

[xXxSeTTriPxXx]

I well be getting a ps4 day1 but 1080p 60fps is what I thought the next gen wad going to be out the gate.

It does sting a little that this isnt made standard and it does matter.

[tee_bag242]

Any enthusiast realizes by now that 60fps @ 1080p (at least) is the holy grail of gaming.
Anything less is a compromise. Its sad to see such compromises are already being accepted by fanboys on a brand new console that hasn't even been released.

It does matter if a game runs at 30fps because it feels like a slide show, essentially your brain is filling in the gaps. So I guess subliminally fanboys are fooling themselves.

I'd sooner 720p at 60fps if it can't be done at 1080p.
But I can guarantee fps will be sacrificed for resolution since screen resolution is the only measurement these fan-bait comparison websites use.

[papashango]

I recall seeing PS fanboys jumping for joy when the guerilla dev said there are no bottlenecks in the ps4.

Seriously how much BS is this when 60fps is not even the standard for next-gen consoles.

I seriously would like to eventually game on consoles but 30fps FOV=55 makes me feel sick fast.

[Flewid638]

Uncharted, Gears and their 30fps goodness say hello.

[hesido]

This is SUCH a bad test.

There's no guarantee of 60fps update in a browser window.

Please take a look at my blog post:
http://n4g.com/user/blogpos...

60fps is great for bigger movements, camera pans, fast perspective changes.

60fps enhances the feel of any type of game over 30fps counterpart. Bejewelled or Zuma at 30fps looks signicantly inferior (some flash based versions ran at 30fps) compared to native versions which ran at 60fps, even though they are merely "casual" games.

I plan to prepare better videos including gameplay, as the comparisons here suck bad.

Regards,
Emrah

[delboy]

Here's a simple example, if you like it you can include it in your blog.
And maybe explain to gamers why it is bad for the eyes to play games with inconsistent and low frame rates.

http://boallen.com/fps-comp...

[hesido]

This is a great test, it also lets you know if you are actually updating at desired fps. It also lets you see how 60 fps enhances presentation value of even a casual game (the jumping block is reminiscent of casual games.)

[xXxSeTTriPxXx]

Playing rage on ps3 made killzone fill ackward for a while lol.60fps fill so much better.

[BuLLDoG909]

i think these comparison giFs are stupid, a thread pops up at gaf, and then everyone starts posting them on forums, making articles.
I think this plays down the importance of getting 60 minimum.. its far more the "feel" of a game at 60 frames compared to 30, its that smooth feel when you look around without any controller input lag that makes 60 and above great... how people meant to get that from some stupid tiny gifs....

[popup]

That comparison gif thing sucks. Try this instead.
http://www.newgrounds.com/p...

[ATi_Elite]

That was Awesome and a very BIG difference between 30fps and 60fps

all consolers need to see this link by popup

http://www.newgrounds.com/p...

30 = choppy
60 = Butter smooth

anyone who says 30fps doesn't matter is FOOLING themselves cause it does make a HUGE difference and 60fps is BETTER.

[AzaziL]

definitely agree, was able to spot the difference within seconds for each example.

[tee_bag242]

Awesome link!!

[monkey nuts]

I just did that test and was only getting 38 to 40 fps, so the difference was not noticeable. However, considering I am on my ps3s browser it kinda makes sense lol

[Good_Guy_Jamal]

N4G pre-ps4 reveal: 1080p and 60fps is a must for next gen!
N4G post-ps4 reveal: 60fps isn't really a must for every game. It would be nice though.
What changed folks?

[Muerte2494]

Good_Guy_Jamal pre-ps4 reveal: Ps3 article troll
Good_Guy_Jamal post ps4 reveal: Ps4 article troll

what changed folks?

[specialguest]

That's exactly the hypocrisy that's been dominanting n4g for the past 3 yrs now amongst the these fanboys lol, but now it's so obvious. Not too long ago they bashed the Wii U for running games at 30fps or 720p. The Wii U is a weak system, its not a huge surprise that it's limited. However, now that we have ps4 games that are not capable of 60fps at 1080p, suddenly 60fps doesn't matter lol! Had it not been for GG being the first to introduced the KZ:SF and its framerate limitations, these fanboys would've cried out Lazy devs!

[jlemdon]

I think 60fps is better for action games like Ninja gaiden or Devil May Cry. sorry the re-boot was too slow for me but it was good also.

I think most games should be 60 fps, don't have to be 1080P could be something close to 1080P.

[Hicken]

Nothing's changed. The same people saying it isn't a must now were saying it then.

The same way you're trolling Sony articles now as you were then.

[Holeran]

I always felt that Killzone 3 was a fantastic fps that runs in 30fps. It always felt very smooth to me and I had no problems with it ever. Other shooters never turned out so well at 30fps, to me Battlefield 3 was terrible at 30fps.

[Good_Guy_Jamal]

30fps great when in Killzone. Bad when in any other shooter.
Got it.

[popup]

It's quite simple really.

On any system the devs always have a choice.

60fps but less graphical complexity, smoother

30fps more graphical complexity, not as smooth

No matter how powerful a platform, 30fps with increased detail will always be achievable.

Considering that graphics can sell products and that the screenshots on the back of the box don't move at 60psf(!) it really is NO WONDER that console game developers often go for a compromise.

Take a game like GT5. The game is enjoyed by car enthusiasts. Yaz is also a car fan. He made sure the game ran at 60fps during the actual race but because the fans want to admire the cars in the replay, he chose 30fps with increased effects and details. Photo mode actually renders the picture and runs at much less that 1fps but the results are great.

Maybe the answer is to have options on our console games that, like PC's, allows us to change the detail settings so that you can play what ever way you please.

[NeXXXuS]

Action games such as DmC and GoW don't need 60fps to look good. all of the fast movements need to be smooth and fluid for gameplay so 30fps is right on the mark.

[Nitrox]

You do realize that 60fps is smoother than 30 right? DmC and GoW @ 60fps would be absolutely heavenly.

There's a difference between acceptable, and optimal. Action games @ 30fps are anything BUT optimal.

[NeXXXuS]

faster actions don't require more frames since the image moves faster. not sure if it should apply this way but it only seems logical. i just think of it like drawing images on a sticky note pad to make a moving picture or film on a film reel.

[jlemdon]

DMC and GOW were always 60FPS dude...smh you must be new to these games.

[Zhipp]

I'd prefer if everything were 60fps, but I agree that 30fps is acceptable. Only if it never drops below 30, though.

[SegataSanshiro]

Of course it doesn't matter now cause you're a Sony fanboi/girl. Everything bad that comes out of the PS4 from now on is irrelevant to all you hypocrites, who were barking just a year before how the PS4 was gonna have 1080p @ 60 fps on EVERY game....youre all a bunch of blind hypocrites.

[showtimefolks]

it depends on the game and developer, insomniac went to 30FPS because they can get more stuff in the game done

60FPS isn't everything unless we are talking about sports or FPS type games

but i would like for ps4 and next xbox to be able to handle 60FPS with full 1080P

[LocutusEstBorg]

Wrong. Even 60fps is substandard once you play at 120fps.

[MYSTERIO360]

1080p at 60FPS yes please

[JsonHenry]

Maybe my eyes are bad but I couldn't tell the difference in those comparisons. What I can tell is the difference between 720 and 1080. I would rather have a native higher rez than higher fps any day. But that is just my opinion.

[ziratul]

30 fps is more than enough for most games. However, FPS multiplayer shooters like COD need 60fps, i mean it would be nice to have 60fps with COD games

[malokevi]

This article effectively proves nothing.

I will be happy with 30fps at 1080p, and pleasantly surprised by anything more.

[GribbleGrunger]

They look identical to me ... lol

[grailly]

to me too, I even tried zooming in a lot and focusing on the faster movements, still looks the same to me.

[4logpc]

The issue is the writer didnt put browser enhancements to thought. Most modern browsers will attempt to have the animations refresh at the same rate, so you will only see the difference if you click on the image.

[GribbleGrunger]

I've done that and stared at the image until my eyes bled, but I see no difference whatsoever! Have I got ... 'framerate blindness'? *Poors a Gin shakily*

[jetlian]

the top one shows a few more extra frames. look at the sword when it hits the 75 degree mark on right. On the left you see frames at 90 and like 60 degrees.

Whereas the 30 fps one goes 75 down to like 40 degrees.

[hesido]

Hi Gribble,

This is a very bad comparison. Like 4logpc says, there's no way to guarantee 60fps gifs inside a browser. Hardware accelerated video would be a better candidate to test 30/60fps.

Please take a look at the videos on my blog post:

http://n4g.com/user/blogpos...

Granted, these are actual camera footage. Please take a look at the videos in a hardware accelerated environment to make sure you are displaying all the frames.

[sourav93]

First click on the image. The using a black piece of paper, or your hand, cover the alleged 60fps section of the gif; only look at the 30fps version. Then, switch your hand/paper to the 30fps and now look at the 60fps. You WILL notice a difference. Whether the difference is significant enough to write a whole article about is debatable.

[hesido]

Even then, there's little guarantee that the browser will play the gif at 60fps. Best is to check using hardware accelerated video.

[Godmars290]

Too much work to notice a slight difference.

[sourav93]

Gribble check these out to see a proper difference between 30fps and 60fps.

1. Uncharted 3 desert village gameplay @30fps:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

2. Uncharted 3 desert village gameplay @60fps (this gameplay was apparently made by using 2 ps3 dev units, I don't know the details):
https://mega.co.nz/#!JEljjR...

Notice the difference during the fight scene. You can clearly see the added fluidity in 60fps version.

[GraveLord]

same here. FPS isn't something I can see, it's something I can feel.

[Coach_McGuirk]

they do look the same, which means using animated GIFs is a terrible way to display the difference. If your eyes are getting twice as many frames per second, things are going to look twice as smooth. It's common sense.

[e-p-ayeaH]

the animations are definitely more fluid at 60fps makes the game a lot more enjoyable.

[user7693958]

60fps does look better but 30fps does look good!
if is stable and they can push more important things over it I will not mind, but if they say the PS4 is is "good" I want my games to be more advanced..

[violents]

Look closely the 30fps ones have a slight judder to them on high action, I especially noticed on the knights sword sheath and clothing.

And the bad part is that a lot of people wont be able to tell a difference, however the graphics Nazis of the world will be the loudest about it. 60Fps seems to help a lot with problems like screen tearing and smoother animations, I know that's not the only variable here but that's what I've noticed in my experiences.

Just look at far cry 3 on console vs a high end pc. Consoles were struggling to run 30fps and there was massive screen tearing issues all the time on my tv. But if you watch some PC videos online the game looks buttery smooth.

[GribbleGrunger]

Doesn't this conversation sort of prove it's not such a big deal though? I mean, here we are discussing myriad ways of determining the answer, when a quick glance should be all we'd need. I'm not saying it isn't better for certain games, but for me it's more to do with gameplay elements than visual fluidity.

[Zhipp]

I can see it clear as day. Higher framerates do seem more noticeable(and look more awesome) when there's more stuff going on at once, though. A good example would be DMC or The Wonderful 101. Try watching those in 60fps and 30fps, you will see the difference.

[isarai]

60fps is awesome indeed, but not necessary for every game, i'm pretty sure it will be more common next gen, but how common i have no clue

[izumo_lee]

Yeah it really depends on the type of game. I can really see 60fps standard on action games, racing games & the odd shooter. However 60fps on something like Disgaea or a turn based RPG would be nice but not necessary.

[ijust2good]

Next gen, there will be choices and factors to take into account.

Good graphics with minimum descent physics equals 720p/60fps
Better graphics with better physics equals 1080p/30fps

Those are the basic choice devs will need to make before they begin on a project.

[_LarZen_]

If I had to pick either a great looking game at 60fps or a insane great looking game at 30fps I would pick the 30fps game....

[mushroomwig]

Same here, I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice visuals for such a minor difference.

[GABRIEL1030]

Sorry I dont see the difference =/. But 60 fps and 1080 should be the PS4 norm.

[abc1233]

If you don't even see the difference, why would you want to sacrifice graphics for 60fps to become the norm?

[GABRIEL1030]

LOL, I mean in the article. I saw 60 FPS graphics in Id shooter: Rage, and was great, the game looks good but not better than other games like Killzone or Resistance that run on 30 FPS¡

[Godmars290]

Only noticing a slight - not really worth mentioning - difference.

I mean if 60fps is there its there. Otherwise - so what?

This is really a 1st world problem, isn't it?

[hesido]

This is not a good test. Take a look at my other posts here.

[sourav93]

Tbh 60fps shows it's advantages over 30fps in quite a few games. I for one am hoping that we see more 60fps game next gen. To show you what I mean, I will post 2 videos:

1. Uncharted 3 desert village gameplay @30fps:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

2. Uncharted 3 desert village gameplay @60fps (this gameplay was apparently made by using 2 ps3 dev units, I don't know the details):
https://mega.co.nz/#!JEljjR...

Notice the difference during the fight scene. You can clearly see the added fluidity in 60fps version.

[Godmars290]

And this is a whole tech-geek thing. Wanting bleeding edge performance - which not everyone wants.

[PersonMan]

I think it loses it's cinematic quality at 60fps. It just looks "wrong".

It's like the soap opera effect. Looks bad and out of place.

[Muerte2494]

you're exactly right. If you have a 90hz plasma or 240hz LCD (same difference) you can clearly see some effects in movies look horrible compared to viewing at 60hz. Like I mentioned before, people complaining about 60FPS usually only play COD.

[MoveTheGlow]

Article: 60fps is important!
Me: "Yes!"

Article: We'll show you a comparison so you know JUST HOW IMPORTANT IT IS!
Me: "Yeah! Show em' all!"

Article: Here are some GIFs! I swear they're accurate! [puts some directions in bold as if readers would actually pay attention to it]
Me: *facepalm*

I seriously want more games running in 60fps. That sense of fluid motion isn't just some number on a sheet of paper, it's an aesthetic decision in itself. The original Zone of the Enders, while it had its issues, was awesome to see, since you had all that machinery and "futuristic" HUD stuff moving at 60, much more like what you'd actually see outside (and don't give me that WE DON'T SEE ABOVE 30FPS bull, it's a trap), and that just doesn't show up in 30fps games. It works for movies, but not for us. And when the new ZOE HD came out with framerate issues, I was dumbstruck.

Newer gamers hardly see it, though, it's some foregone element of the past, since screenshots and movie-ish trailers dominate the market, and streaming video and friggin' GIFs can't keep up with what you'd actually see on screen. Ugh. It's time to change that stuff!

And Muerte, my games of choice that ran at 60 were DMC3 and Panzer Dragoon Orta. Not CoD by any stretch. Those games put me to sleep.

[kevnb]

dont forget to click the gifs, otherwise you wont see the difference. 60 fps is way better than 30 for gaming.

[4logpc]

The writer really screwed up on this. Since most browsers have enhancements to fix improper refresh rates, the GIF's will not be see in their true form until you click them and view them in their own page.

So if you want to really see the difference click the image.

The problem is now a lot of people that dont see the different, that also never really cared about the difference, are going to read and see this, and say theres no difference.

[landog]

not gonna happen, really graphically intense games like bf4, the witcher 3.....those will be 720p 30 frames on ps4/nextbox if the have even 90% of the pc graphical features, like quality anti aliasing, ssao, af etc....

ps4/nextbox will still have plent of games at 1080p too.....but the best looking games on the next gen consoles will be 720p

and 60 frames.....forget about it....very few games will run like that

[ginsunuva]

Some games are fine with 30.
racing games and melee combat games need 60.

[remanutd55]

Im gonna be completely honest here, i dont see any difference between their examples lol.

[Turbotoby]

I guess ps4 games could aim for 48fps, that would still make a difference.

[Rai]

I guess I'm blind...because I couldn't see much of a difference if any.

[mrmancs]

just because thief dev said they Cant be bothered to push 60fps(which they could) does not mean ps4 games wont be 60fps 1080p . Stop jumping to conclusions.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

about all this comparison shows me is two things: 1) .gif comparisons of frame rate is a poor way to compare frame rate 2) The difference isn't terribly noticeable to the quick look.

I will also throw in ... locked 30FPS is more than fine in my opinion assuming the game is locked at a constant 30 FPS ALL THE TIME... no dips and I am fine with 30FPS. It's when the dev runs 30 FPS but it dips to lower, like 15 FPS, that 30 FPS becomes un-acceptable.

[sprinterboy]

wow, thought I would have noticed the difference lol, is this a out of date April Fools lol.

[Yui_Suzumiya]

Doesn't this argument also factor in to what type of HDTV you have? Resolution, refresh rate, aspect ratio and all that? Certain, more high powered HDTVs can handle things better as where lower end ones can have alot of pop in and lower res textures.

[PersonMan]

It's not the TV that gives you pop-in. What planet are you from?

[DigitalAnalog]

Guys, just watch the 60FPS Battlefield 4 video at Eurogamer than COMPARE it to the 30fps Youtube video. I absolutely 100% guarantee you WILL see the difference.

[PersonMan]

No matter how powerful the hardware gets, you'll always be able to produce better graphics at 30fps than you can at 60fps.

Developers usually go for 30fps so they can squeeze more effects in.

[imchuckbass]

Months ago:

"Yeaaahh ps4 gonna be 1080p 60fps every game! It's the standard! SONY SHOULD ENFORCE IT! (lol)"

Now that we find out the PS4 is too weak to do some games in 60fps, and instead you'll get the same stuttery 30fps you've had for years:

"You know what, 60fps doesn't matter. Who can tell the difference?!"

Fanboy excuses so funny. Almost as funny as a tablet cpu

[FlyingFoxy]

60fps constant and just 60fps are completely different, if you just get 60fps that could be max or average framerate. So the game will still drop to low framerates of 30 or so anyway.

I doubt consoles will be able to do 60fps constant because it's impossible even on some newer games on pc with high end cards @ 1080p.

[thehitman]

exactly the whole 60v30 fps is way overblown atm. Yes having your game at 60fps showcases more power but even the best PCs cant run a constant 60fps under max settings at a constant 60fps. With that said a game allowed to run at 60fps and dropping frames can have tons of screen tearing and can look worse than a game locked at 30fps running smooth and steady. The key is to have the highest CONSTANT frame rate not just the highest. Also a lot of games don't even need such a high frame rate unless there is lots of quick action movements where you need the frames to keep up with whats going on such as racing games or fast action fighting games.

[chukamachine]

This is for nuketail!

Run a game on a monitor using 720p - NATIVE REZ of monitor.

Run the same game on a monitor using 1080p - Native REZ of monitor.

You will not see any difference.

30 - 60fps is a big difference.

Some games deal with it better, some don't.

I've played plenty of racing games at 30fps and plenty at 60fps. Both were smooth. But obviously 60fps is silky if it's constant.

There is nothing worse then playing a game on PC, it's all running 60fps sweet and you turn around a corner, or a new area and the game chugs, yes even on the most powerful rigs, because of game bugs. It's poor.

I just want smooth gameplay.

[bobacdigital]

The gold standard for a PC Gamer is 1080p @ 60fps... 99% of PC gamers will agree anything less than 60 fps is considered less enjoyable to play. Most all PC gamers can tell the difference in frames and it isnt even close....Native resolution ALONE with minimal AA at 60 fps looks better than anything a console can put out right now in most games. This is the exact reason why Gears of War PC looks VASTLY better than it does on 360...

MOST people dont even realize ps3 and 360 games weren't even 720 / 1080p... most of them were 540p upscaled to 1080... The system could barely handle 720p.... That is why HALO 4 (Best graphics in the series) the first true native 720p game on the 360 ran like crap when you had more 2 to 4 players playing multiplayer or coop.

For console developers the leap from 540p upscaled to native 720 / 1080 is a HUGE jump graphically... The only reason devs are doing 720p @ 30 fps is because they cant achieve solid frame rate with eye candy on at 1080p......

ps4 will be a great console.. but if most games are going to be limited to 30fps @ 720p it wont hold a candle to a PC... Most PC gamers dont even bother installing games that run at 30 fps lol.

[grailly]

I wouldn't call myself a gamer if I refused to play a game because the framerate was under 60

[Triggytrolls]

The only game I can compare is BF3. You can tell the difference between PC and console for that game.

[Indo]

SO basically... address 60fps to games that will benefit from it and keep games 30fps to games that won't is what I'm getting. But what about 1080p and 720p games?

[givemeshelter]

More RAM does not magically give you stable 60fps@1080p or above. When will you people on N4G.COM understand this? Notice how everyone and their mothers have been focusing on the 8GB DDR5 Ram and bypassed the CPU/GPU? The REAL indicator if the system will run most games at 1080p@60fps with FSAA and other IQ features. The CPU/GPU for the PS4 and the upcoming Xbox is mid-low range by today's standards.
Many people are going to be disappointed when graphically demanding games on these consoles are running 30fps and not 1080p....

[e-p-ayeaH]

60fps makes the gameplay more enjoyable in most cases.

it should be mandatory for shooters and other types of action games the smoother the action gets the better.

[cyclindk]

The difference is noticeable, buuuuut...

To make the example more, true to form I would have taken a character model (or whatever example visuals you wished to display and compare) and ramp up the textures, polys and resolution of the 30 fps version to make it fair, as those are often the trade-offs for the decreased frame rate.

My twenty eight cents.

[mydyingparadiselost]

The N64 could do 70 fps... technology is going backwards! :P

[ado908]

Seriously don't understand why deveopers keep it at 30 FPS when they can keep it at 31.....

[tubers]

Perceived response in controls is higher in 60 FPS.

People here should try Crysis and mess with:

sys_maxfps = 30
sys_maxfps = 60

(make sure you can run at 60 fps.. doesn't matter what setting).

Huge difference in fluidity and response.

Since there's limited hardware.. A lot of devs would still rather add more effects than double the framerate.

[4lc4pon3]

i dont mind if a game is 30fps or 60. Its all game dependent in my opinion. If you WANT crazy graphical games your going to have to sacrifice FPS. You cant have both. Some games will have 60fps but will have to lack in some graphical areas where the graphically insane games will need to run lower FPS

[rapidturtle]

Mehh

[frayed]

1366x768 or 1600x900 at 40/45 FPS? Surely that'd be a fair compromise for some games - FPS title that need faster response. I play a lot of PC games and spend ages trying to find the best play-ability, gfx fidelity balance and most of the time I prefer to compromise between lower res, a very good AA solution, some sharpening and a decent 40+ framerate. I actually think in terms of responsiveness there is a bigger difference between 30 and 40 than 40 and 60. Also, the difference in AA quality is in some ways more important than 720 to 1080 in terms of overall IQ. IMHO.

[grailly]

SO why not have it like on pc and let the player chose?

[DomceM]

they wont have 60fps. they will just make games that look better but still run at 30fps.

[PrinterMan]

I have a AMD FX-6100 with 16 gig of ram and a radeon 6870 and I can't get 60fps @ 1080p consistently. I quite often drop settings to high from ultra and set res at 1680x1050. Thought my PC was fairly high end but I guess not. L(

[4lc4pon3]

id say your about Mid range. I have 2 higher end rigs myself. One uses a Intel 2500K with SLI 680s and the other uses a ivy bridge 3570k with Crossfire 7970s.

I love my rigs the FX6100 is a decent chip nothing spectacular but still enough to play anything really. I would upgrade your GPU to at least a 7950 but thats just me

[PrinterMan]

I have an AMD FX-6100, 16 gigs of ram and a Radeon 6870 and I don't get 60fps at 1080p consistent on games. usually go to high settings instead of ultra and drop to 1680x1050. Thought I was high end but I guess not.

*** oops sorry...double post!

[BitbyDeath]

FPS is blown way out of proportion the differences are barely visible unless you look really really closely.

Here's a vid to show you what i mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[mmj]

You're missing the point, most movies are 25fps and our eyes cannot discern a difference.

BUT when you are interacting with a game 30fps ones are laggier and less responsive to controller input than 60fps ones. It's not so much that you SEE a difference but that you can FEEL a difference.

[TheKayle1]

cmon ..now i wanna read from true fanboys that 30 fps on the ps4 r better than 60 on other systems ahahah

ps. if we take as example the graphics they put in the demo of kz...u can forget about 60fps with the gpu in the ps4

they system cant perform that much ..maybe with another gpu but dont think sony will upgrade lol..

[ufo8mycat]

Like I said in another article 60fps is HUGELY overrated. Those gifs and links posted in the comments prove it.

I have played both 30fps and 60fps games and even those gifs and other fps test links found in these comments, yes there is a slight difference, but WOW talk about exaggerated.

I am so glad I am one of those people not sensitive to anything below 60fps. 30fps for me, is like 60fps for another person.

I really feel sorry for people who are. They definitely got the bad end of the stick.

[Bordel_1900]

Even though you said it in another article you're still very wrong.

[turgore]

No. Please don't, then every game is gonna feel like call of duty. Between choosing nicer graphics and higher framerate, I would choose nicer graphics (provided framerate doesn't dip below 30).

[fullmetal297]

A better question would be "60 frames at 720p or 30 frames at 1080p?".

My personal would be 60 frames for competitive mutiplayer games. Those extra frames counts so much in reaction times that I actually lower my settings to achieve the 60 frames mark.

In single player or casual games on the other hand, 30 frames is more than acceptable.

[Cryptcuzz]

Most launch games are going to be lower in FPS then they can be since they are being developed on older devkits, as well as needing to rush to meet with being a launch game.

I am sure there will be awesome looking games running on 1080P 60 FPS after the batch of launch games.

I say wait until Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica show off their games before jumping to conclusions.

[urwifeminder]

After coming from console to pc and playing the same multiplats the difference is massive at high frames.

[Bordel_1900]

That's my experience too. I went from PS3 to a high-end PC in 2012. Running all the multiplats in 1080p rock solid 60 fps is night and day compared to the console counterpart. Maybe the difference isn't that great on a 24" screen, but on my 55" it's massive. I'm so used to gaming on my PC now that even when I have my PlayStation 4 I'll buy the multiplats on PC if they're not as good as on the PC.

[sackboyhappy]

wouldnt a fast moving object be better than a slow moving character as a test?

[TronEOL]

There's barely a difference. If they can achieve 60FPS, do it. If not, don't worry about it. I'd much rather have a game that looks beautiful in 1080p at the expense of framerate than the other way around.

Especially when you ACTUALLY play a game, I barely notice a difference between 30FPS in Uncharted 3, and 60FPS in most PC games I play. I only start noticing when it gets to 90+FPS on a 120Hz screen. THEN it runs silky smooth.

It only gets horrible when the game can't even hold 30FPS and it starts dipping to 20-29FPS. THEN you start noticing it. 20FPS should NEVER happen next generation. Never at all, ever.

TLDR;
The difference is barely even noticeable, and the PS4 developers should never allow their games to drop below 30FPS. Not even by a frame.

[teo72]

ALL GAMES ON PS4 WILL SUPPORT NATIVE 1080P.

[vigilante_man]

I don't care whether its 30-40-50-60-200 fps. Quality is quality.

Its about graphics, environments, atmosphere, gameplay, music, etc. The total package. I love Kojima, Naughty Dog, Guerrilla, Insomniac, Square Enix (when they were good) and any company that takes pride in its games and values quality.

When you play a great game, you play a great game! Seems PS4 is about the Games this time around. I hope MS is the same too...

[MuhammadJA]

The PS4 isn't capable of 1080p and 60FPS. Only E3 will prove me right or wrong.

[kasser]

It is not about the PS4 is capable or not! This is up to the developer and it is basic math: More FPS, Less Graphics or the opposite.

They just think better graphics is more important than 60fps.

[mmj]

The 30fps decline all started with Xbox, Halo, PGR etc. they knew most gamers were graphics snobs and you still see people today spouting the line that "30fps is fine as long as it's steady".

Sony and PS4 developers are at a huge disadvantage if they focus on 60fps because Microsoft will shout from the rooftops that Xbox has better graphics. The vast majority couldn't care less about frame rate so most developers will focus on 30fps because it's an easier target and they can improve graphics with less optimization needed.

[CaulkSlap]

Ask anyone with an almost high end gaming PC what they tune settings to. You can get quite a bit more fidelity by dropping into the 30-40fps range and that's perfectly fine for RPGs and most action games.

[plaZeHD]

The difference is barely noticeable. I would take 1080p/30fps over 720p/60fps any day.

[kasser]

60fps is a must for fast-paced games like Need for speed or Tekken...

30fps is "OK" for a game that tends to take its time.. like stealth games or RPGs.

[GermanScientist]

I'd have to agree it depends on the game.

For sports games like EA Skate, NHL, FIFA and first person shooters like Call Of Duty and Battlefield i much prefer 60fps whilst for action adventure type-ish games like Uncharted i don't mind 30fps, and in fact i might even prefer it.

60fps obviously is "better" and there is a clear differance if you see video of the two next to eachother (theese gifs don't work too well) but i think for adventure games going for the movie feel 30fps works better.

This might just come down to people not liking change... Just look at The Hobbit and how many people hated the 48fps framerate.

[Bordel_1900]

30 fps is barely acceptable in 2014. But I agree that it depends on the game. But I'd of course choose 60 over 30 any day of the week.

[Anonagrog]

Just wanted to point out that a lot of games will not calculate animation poses at a rate dependent upon render speed. In fact, it's often unnecessarily taxing to calculate animation poses and blending at anything greater than 30fps. Transformations in world co-ordinate space may of course be calculated at a rate determined by the rendering system, such as 60fps, or queued at a lower fps and then interpolated with each render presentation (typically increasing input lag). The local joint poses in animations themselves, though, probably aren't the best thing to study for the point being made here.