How PS4 Could Overpower a More Powerful PC

E-mpire writes: Some have criticized Sony for abandoning the exotic, custom processors they have usually used in their PlayStation consoles for more standardized "off the shelf" PC parts. They have drawn up comparisons with how much money it would take to buy an equally powerful PC and how capable that PC, and therefore assuming PS4, is using benchmark software. These comparisons are not valid, and this is not a disadvantage for Sony. I'll explain why.

[zeal0us]

This whole PS4 PC comparison is getting dumb.

If you want exclusives from studios like Santa Monica, Naughty Dog or etc get a PS4.

If you want sheer power,mods, titles that don't show up consoles, build yourself a pc or buy one from a respectable manufacturer.

[fr0sty]

PC gamers are used to saying "my rig can beat that" when a new console is announced, but as this article explains, that isn't always the case. Being faster on paper and faster in practice are 2 different things.

When John Carmack can't think of anything negative to say about PS4's architecture, you know Sony has done it right.

[ProjectVulcan]

Why all the comparisons to PC anyway? PC always wins in the end, consoles can only ever compete performance wise in the very short term.

You buy a console, it stays the same. You buy a PC, you can change it.

Are people that paranoid.

PC has such superior hardware that regardless of the advantages of a fixed platform it'll be able to beat up the consoles be it in 6 months or 12 or 18.

Usually sooner rather than later. In this case PS4's spec is just fine, but already we have PC hardware more powerful and we are a good 9 months from PS4 launch it seems- probably even longer until half of those games demoed last night actually come out too.

Its only a matter of time so why fuss about it.

The article is actually incredibly crap, making assumptions about pricing when we have no clue how much a PS4 actually costs or how much its games might cost etc etc.

PS4 is much better value easily!!!!

So the retarded article claims.

Is it? How do you know? How much are the games each?

Yawn. Bad 'journalism'.

[decrypt]

"Being faster on paper and faster in practice are 2 different things."

8800GTX says hi, was faster on paper and was faster in practice when compared to the PS3.

Its funny but the PS3 in comparison to the PS4 was much more up to date in terms of tech at that time.

PS3 had the RSX which was comparable to 7800 series of that time and it had a CPU that could help in graphics too.

What does the PS4 have, its got a 7850 equal GPU, which is midrange by todays standard. By the time PS4 launched 7850 will be low end. Its got a X86 CPU from AMD, practically any PC gamer in todays time Lols at AMD CPUs(as Intel is so much better).

PS3 was no match for a dual core CPU equipped with a 8800GTX. I would think by the time PS4 launches it will fare even worse against GPUs of late 2013, mid range GPUs will walk all over the PS4. Something that took 8800GTX to do to the PS3, while 8800GTX was high end for its time.

@opengl

Competely agree, console gamers are in denial if they think PS4 will be anywhere close to a PC.

By the time Geforce Titan and 8970 are out. Mid range GPUs will be stomping what is in the PS4.

Its going to be a repeat of just how 8800GTX till date beats current consoles. Plays just about every game out there in 1080p, Mean while consoles play just about every game out there in 720 or below.

[darthv72]

its the word "temporarily" in the title.

consoles can come out on par or in some cases exceed what is the Pc equivalent at the time. But that does not last.

PC tech is constantly evolving with roughly a 6mo or less turnaround on some parts like the CPU and GPU. A console has to retain the same form and function for several years.

The typical time frame of a console is roughly 5 years from launch is when new work is begun on any kind of follow-up. Within that time, PC tech can exceed consoles by a significant margin. But that margin also comes at an increased cost where as a console remains the same throughout. In many cases....the console is cheaper.

But the viscous cycle begins again with the next console release. Like the rumored specs of the 720 and those of the PS4 having 8gb of memory. My gaming PC only has 4gb but then again, I built it back in 08 when that was probably sufficient. Since then i turned my attention to consoles. Actually, my attention never left consoles but periodically I turn towards the PC and build a newer one now and then.

With the recent PS4 and upcoming 720, it may make building a new game rig a bit less appealing. Especially when the tough part of which cpu/gpu to get has been decided for you. Games will get better graphically than what we saw yesterday. That much is a given.

I know I dont have the $$ for that brand new Nvidia Titan (or whatever it was called) but i can certainly afford a Ps4 or 720 and be able to enjoy the games released for it/them. Will I be missing out on what a super high end PC is capable of???? Yes but only for 5-6 years and then a new console will come out to equate to whatever is close to the top at that time.

I can live with that. I have been since Pong and every subsequent console release.

[OpenGL]

@decrypt

The Radeon 8970 will be out before the PS4 is, and it is quite a bit faster than the GPU in the PS4. Heck, the Geforce GTX Titan is already much faster, as are the Radeon 7970 and GTX 680.

It's a console though, it's not all about power.

[sonic989]

thats what i was saying for like what 10 years
thats why i study computer science and i am super excited for the ps4 also having a strong network like ps cloud on your side can scare any pc right away its no longer my rig is better than yours it will be my provider is better than yours .
yes direct pc to console comparisons are BS at its finest form pc gamers always try to put those up as gaming superiority but in real life there is optimization and whole lot of stuff to over come on pc to produce console like games
i remember my pentium 4 pc being outperformed by the original xbox without breaking a sweat lol.
and yeah we game on microsoft OS so do microsoft look like morons to dish out the next xbox and make it look last gen compared to pc of course no they would kill the pc gaming just to make their xbox succeed ( and its called business )

[guitarded77]

At fr0sty... that is oh so true. Check out the link I'm providing to top super computer speeds and look at their architecture. We are reaching a plateau of sorts in chip architecture, and we are seeing programming having an even greater role in overall speed. A better algorithm is becoming more important than actual hardware in many respects. The difference between PS and console will be bridged this coming gen by programming techniques.

http://www.top500.org/lists...

[Enemy]

Look at the exclusives the PS3 already has. The best of'em are easily comparable to anything on PC. Developers showed us the PS3 for what it is, and it'll be the same all over again with the PS4. This time developers have more power than was expected.

PS3's 512MB split RAM vs PS4's 8GB unified GDDR5

It all comes down to what the developers are doing. Raw power means nothing without games to show it, and this is where Sony always wins.

[slayorofgods]

Why the comparison's?

Ahh, so we can see the power of the new PS4.. How else are we going to truly understand the specs of the system at this point in time.

That being said the PS4 specs are good.. They may push a few pc gamers to upgrade their rig to stay modern.. The PS4 does have a 8 core processor, a lot of pc gamers have a quad core. So these are all good things that will push pc gamers to keep up..

I think people need to quit getting so offended.. It's not like comparing a pc to a ps3 is sac-religious...

[slayorofgods]

@OpenGL

Well obviously 1000 dollar gpu's like the Titan are going to be better then the PS4 form factor GPU.

The 1000 dollar Titan is faster then the vast majority of pc gamers gpu's.. Most people are going to spend 200 dollars max, check amazon's best sellers. The titan is way behind the 200 dollar gpu's.

[BitbyDeath]

PC is ahead in tech itself but as for games using that tech PS4 will be ahead. PC will obviously overtake it eventually but maybe not til Crysis 4 arrives.

[ProjectVulcan]

The problem is slayerofgods the comparisons are usually rubbish because most of the people here have no clue what they are talking about.

Take your short note of PS4 having an 8 core processor and PC owners not having so many cores.

So?

Those 8 cores are AMD Jaguar based according to every source. Which means they are very, very slow relative to any full size desktop X86 quad core you care to name from the past 5 years.

Jaguar is a low power architecture designed for the likes of tablets, the cores are extremely tiny and aren't even close to the ops per clock of a fully fledged desktop part like an Intel 2500k, or i7 920, or Phenom 2 quad for example.

CPU performance is essentially ops per clock x Clockspeed.

Jaguar's ops per clock are a fraction of lets just say a 4 and a half year old Intel i7 920 quad core.

Its clockspeed is considerably less than said i7 920.

Thats means much less ops x much less clockspeed = nowhere near as fast.

It has twice the cores but a fraction of the actual performance. Even if Jaguar is twice as fast per core as Bobcat (not even close...) then you are still only talking about 20 gigaflops. Intel i7 920 easily knocked out 40+ 4 and a half years ago.

But no, lets just be ignorant over that and pretend that the 8 core in the PS4 is somehow better than everything in a decent desktop PC, when in fact it is considerably inferior.

People either don't understand or rather not listen to God's honest truth. So why even bother comparisons?

[starchild]

The author is correct on all those points.

Even more important, however, is the fact that the gaming industry basically revolves around the consoles.

There are virtually no developers making high-end games exclusively for the PC. The Witcher 2 was the last of a dying breed...and even that eventually went to consoles.

I am a PC gamer, but I'm not an idiot. Specs are meaningless in an ultimate sense; all that matters is what is actually achieved.

There are PS3 exclusives that in a general way still look better than most PC games. Sure, the PC games can have higher resolution and framerate, but they aren't fundamentally better in terms of textures, lighting, geometry, etc.

Now that next gen console games will likely output at 1080p resolution and will have plenty of memory to provide better anti-aliasing, the PC advantages will be even smaller. PS4 games will likely set the bar for some time to come.

[Computersaysno]

You're talking rubbish starchild. Probably why you only have one bubble.

PC games have been superior technically for years. Games dont even have to be high end on current Pc hardware to trounce what is on Ps3.

Textures, lighting and geometry not being better on Pc?

Please, get real. Consoles rarely use better than 512 x 512 textures where 1024 x 1024 is extremely common for Pc versions and 2048 x 2048 more common now as well. Ps3, 360 struggle to do proper HDR in more complex games or quality dynamic shadows. Usually no sweat for Pc versions.

Often the geometry is the same on ports, but these days anything with DX11 usually has stacks more polygons than whatever is on console. Batman, BF3, Deus Ex, Crysis 3, Dirt 3, Far Cry 3, Medal of Honour yadda yadda. Loads.

You might actually know this if you were really a Pc gamer.

To a point consoles are the lowest common denominator but as soon as Pc hardware allows you always end up with a bare minimum of the same assets but more res, more frames.

New consoles are super win for Pc because ps4 is built very similar to a Ps4 in many key aspects. Design a game for ps4 and port it so easily to Pc.

[slayorofgods]

@vulcanproject

You have a semi good point. There is no listing for the exact clock speed of the 8 core cpu, but one can come to the conclusion its faster than the Cell processor (at least).

O.K. so you got me on the fact the PS4 is using a tablet like cpu on top of the form factor like GPU. But you don't quite have me on the overall power of the 8 core processor (pretty sure I said 8 core and not 8 core with hyper-threading BTW)since you yourself can only speculate..

But, on a agreeable note I would like to know more about the new cpu such as overall power and speed.

And if I'm missing something feel free to correct me, I still think it is fair to be able to compare a ps4 to a pc, surly that isn't impossible.

[ProjectVulcan]

If you read anandtech technology website who has talked to Sony about the hardware, they confirm it is in fact an 8 core AMD Jaguar based processor. http://www.anandtech.com/sh...

We actually know quite a lot about Jaguar as in the low power microarchitecture. We don't know the precise clockspeed of the part inside PS4, most sources put it at about 1.6 - 1.8ghz. This is highly likely to be true (Bobcat and Jaguar just aren't designed for high clockspeeds 3ghz+ etc), because we know that the previous AMD Bobcat line are similar and that Jaguar will have only slightly increased clocks for PC applications.

I do have you on the overall power of the processor, because we know how fast Bobcat cores are, we know that Jaguar is at most a modest percent increase over that according to AMD themselves- http://www.eetimes.com/elec... (fourth paragraph down, 15+ percent better ops per clock, 10+ percent clock for roughly 25-30 percent increase give or take)

We know that there are 8 of them and that typically a 4 core application has 2mb of cache at most as per the design philosophy. Which means an 8 core version with 4mb cache, best case.

We know what Bobcat can do, we know what Jaguar should do according to AMD, and so by a little bit of extrapolation we know roughly what PS4's CPU can do.

That is to say, not set the world on fire. It is adequate, but absolutely and categorically no match for even an older desktop Intel or AMD quad core.

Jaguar simply is not in the same category as full size desktop processors.

Even an 8 core Jaguar is like a family hatchback lining up against the Intel and AMD hypercars you see in desktop computers. Nothing wrong with the hatch as a vehicle, but lets at least understand it is not a firebreathing monster.....

[guitarded77]

@ vulcanproject

Yes, but like you said, we don't know the clock speed. We also don't know the instruction set architecture (customized I presume) for the PS4, which is just as important as the clock speed.

We can also assume that the GPU will handle a lot of the dirty work. Unless we have access to the documentation of the hardware, and software running the machine, all we can do is speculate about a comparison.

I've said it a thousand times... what's on paper (specs), doesn't mean much. The architects behind the machine aren't morons. They're probably pretty damn smart, and as such probably took a lot into consideration including price, power, efficiency, performance, etc, etc into account when designing the PS4's hardware, ultimately building a highly competent environment for game and app developers.

I understand your argument; I see you know what you're talking about. And since you do know what you're talking about, you certainly know that the PS4 is a highly capable machine for a home console, and will be able to handle just about anything, any major developer will throw at it (sure, eventually there will be exceptions as the hardware ages). With your knowledge, I also believe that you know better than to just read hardware specs and assume... you also know the GPU has a butt-tom of ALU's to take stress off the CPU. Like I said, without official documentation, or someone cracking a system, we really don't know. Just Sony and their devs know. But suggesting that the PS4 is a weak machine by today's (and the near future's) gaming standards is silly.

[ProjectVulcan]

Guitarded77, dude we know enough to make an accurate theory. This is like someone saying well you can't say for SURE that the Sun's surface is hot because you have never been there.

True, but the vast amount of evidence and knowledge we have accumulated indicate that indeed the sun is hot lol.

We know that the chip is a monolithic part which indicates Sony can't aim for very high CPU clockspeeds unless they want to scrap most of them. We also know that the architecture the chip is based on simply is not designed for high clockspeed, high thermal dissipation etc.

Its designed to be more energy efficient. Fairly obvious console makers are more interested in that, after the problems with thermal dissipation experienced trying to build uber machines previously....

If it was more about raw performance than efficiency and cost- they wouldn't have chosen Jaguar at all. They would have chosen a Piledriver based design because even 4 or 6 clusters would demolish anything based off Jaguar.

We know that the instruction set is X86- it can't be anything else. Its either X86 or its not, they say it is. To call it X86 is must have the tightly governed set of highly developed instructions. You can have minor additions but nothing that would dramatically improve its performance beyond what we know of Jaguar.

It is what it is, a bottle rocket is a bottle rocket is a bottle rocket no matter how many fins you put on it, it is not Saturn V.

Nobody suggested that the PS4 is actually a weak machine, just that its parts are absolutely not firebreathing monsters.

A console can be more than the sum of its parts, but the fact that the main components of the system shares a lot of similarities with PC hardware gives us easy comparison to its relative maximum performance.

[guitarded77]

@ vulcanproject

I'm not saying that it probably isn't the case... I agree with the thermal dissipation part (I was thinking the same thing). What I am saying is even though the PS4 may not be the very top tier of available hardware, it is in the upper-mid range, and the architects had to make it cost effective while offering the most power possible.

We may have an idea, but and computer scientist, or scientist in general knows that ideas mean null until you put the idea to work. The PS4 may have limitations like every piece of hardware, but those limitations will be the standard for 99% of games over the next 5-6 years. And the PS4 is a capable machine when it comes to making some pretty impressive games, and I assume multitasking with all that extra RAM.

[slayorofgods]

Well Vulcan you may have a broader knowledge base in chip set architecture then I do. Actually I'm glad to know more about the cpu performance, these are things I didn't have at my disposal as I didn't have as many sources about the jaguar cpu. I'm not going to sit here and debate the overall clock speed as it may still be slightly above your estimated 1.8ghz. I will concur its not going to be at a standard gaming rig 3+ghz.

Still you don't have me at the why compare it to a pc debate though... I'm a pc gamer, I was a PS3 gamer until I got the ylod. Of course I'm curious to know future specs of gaming. There are questions when a new generation comes out and as a gamer I want to stay current. I'm part of the AMD quad core gaming circle, and with 8 core cpu's becoming affordable I have to question whether it is a good idea to upgrade or if the quad will stay current for a few years. I'm sticking to my guns on the comparison's being important.

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

ps4 is looking hot. PC will be better after maybe 2 years but still if ps4 is really $429 then ps4 has more value than a pcgamer.com that said they can build a ps4 for $600 without bluray, controller, camera & cloud features + the cost of windows.

Also the fact that devs can code ps4 even with assembly if they wanted to and it would work on all ps4's. PC is less efficient for a nerd who would like to program at the lowest level.

Computer syetems from a programmers perspective.. Good book I am reading.

[SkyGamer]

Match a 1.6 ghz eight core? really? An ivy bridge quad core would run circles around that prissy cpu ALREADY found in LAPTOPS. Laptops! Serious? GDDR5 is not the same as DDR5. GDDR5 is found in MOST video cards at the 2gb variety. nVidia's newest flagship has 6 GB GDDR5 just for the video card itself!

[Twignberries]

Um... you keep thinking that buddy. Just because a super high end pc may be out of you're reach/ too complicated to maintain for you feeble little mind, doesn't mean they aren't already far superior to ps4.. Are we really that gullible to fall for the old sony hype train once more? You do realise the whole 4k thing only applies to movies yeah? The console is only capable on 1080p 60fps. This makes it already lame in comparison as pc is capable of 4k GAMING right now. Do your research and stop being ignorant of the truth, just accept it.

If you want to play on consoles thats perfectly fine, but dont try to pretend they are technically superior, because they are not and they never will be because if they were, it would be going against its original business model, and would not make any money because they'd be waaaaaaay to expensive to produce

[Temporary]

It already overpowers it, with better games.

[iamgoatman]

"2 of the biggest games we've seen in decades."

You serious? Another Killzone and Infamous are now considered 2 of the biggest games in decades? I wouldn't even call them the biggest games of the YEAR!

But after that last part and you're name, obvious troll is obvious.

[Temporary]

Even I dont agree with what ^^^ said. Killzone and Infamous are by no means the best games in decades ... but they are very good games, especially Infamous for being a brand new IP and set the benchmark for action sandbox graphics and quality.

The PS4 just has a better variety of game developers and will see more quality games by FAR than any high end PC.

If you can own both thats the way to go, but if you can only do 1, the PS4 would be more bang for your buck.

[iamgoatman]

"set the benchmark for action sandbox graphics and quality."

Your opinion, and I highly disagree.

"The PS4 just has a better variety of game developers and will see more quality games by FAR than any high end PC."

And you're basing this on what exactly? Quality of games is entirely subjective. What you've said is complete and utter nonsense.

[ephoenix6]

people also say that the pc gives greater control, but that a console controller is more comfortable, and a system is more economical because you only have to pay for the hardware every 5 years or so, and there's a much larger lineup of console games

[Ducky]

Well, console controllers work on PC as well, and the economical argument swings either ways because games are much cheaper on PC, but on the other hand, the console hardware has longer legs.

The game lineup goes down to tastes, as both the PC and console have a comparable lineups but some genres are only popular on consoles, while others only on PC.

Safest bet is to get both, but I'd imagine that even someone who only owns either platform would be happy with what's available to them.

[duplissi]

a console is more economical in the sense that you pay less up front but the games are much more expensive.. besides that most people will end up buying a second console because they have terrible lifespans.. so where are the savings again? ive spent 600 totall on xbox 360 consoles and 900 totall on my ps3's... went through 2 each.

the last two pc games i purchased: far cry 3 and tomb raider were both about 32 bucks. most pc games are in the 15-25 range in less than a year following release.

its like saying you will save money by renting from rent a center...

[saint_seya]

@duplisi:
i bough demon souls and king of fighters xiii for 19$ and 14$ on the psn store, and theres a lot more games in that range.. idk what your point is..

[duplissi]

I meant NEW games, and my example for pc games were newly released games. as in games less than 6 months old.

If you plan to stay current with games as they come out having a pc is cheaper. I preordered and paid off tomb raider to the tune of 33 dollars, and tomb raider isnt even out.

[TopDudeMan]

Or get both, because while you love gaming on your PC, you gotta get dat naughty dog exclusive.

[Swiftcricket]

This. You don't have to limit yourself to one platform. I play my PC for it's exclusives or if I want to play with some mods, or my PS3 for it's exclusives or if I want to play with my friends since they don't play on PC. Best of both worlds.

[duplissi]

pretty much.

the exclusives are why, even after switching primarily to pc i will still get consoles.

[Sarcasm]

This article actually gives very good insight though to the argument.

The way the PS4 is structured is not like a traditional PC.

So people cant be like "Well I have this CPU and that GPU, so it's the same as a PS4"

And again, developers will utilize 100% of the resources of the PS4 strictly for gaming. A PC isn't designed to do that. It is designed to do everything, thus needs all the extra resources.

If for some reason developers made PC's use 100% of its resources, then my i7 would be taxed 100% of the time. But the reality in most games situations, I've seen barely as much as 40% in the most demanding multi-threaded titles, one being Crysis 3. Most other titles will use 2-4 threads and barely scratch the surface.

DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT???

[clrlite]

I took the time to read your comment and and you are correct.

People throw around a lot of terminology, but very few PC games use more than a few gigs of ram unless you are playing at some absurd resolution or on multiple monitors.

For 1080P gaming on PS4, if devs work directly with that architecture, and fully utilize most of that 8GB GDDR5, then the results will be mind blowing.

You are correct about processor utilization as well. Look at Planetside 2's lopsided processor workload for proof. It is a game that is becoming further optimized and improved. Devs given time to work with the PS4 will become familiar with it's architecture, evenly distribute workload throughout processors, and squeeze more power out of each core.

[jmc8888]

No you are forgetting some major issues with your logic.

No consoles don't use 100 percent, just like a PC.

Can they? Sure. Do they? Rarely.

Also you think that OS with all the useless bloated features in the PS4 is running on pixie dust?

Hint: Console overhead is much higher then in the past. That 'plus' disappeared majorly with the 360/PS3. It's now about all gone with the PS4/720.

The same thing will happen in consoles. You have an i7, that's what it's only pushing 40 percent. Wait a couple more years and it'll go higher. You have a CPU far better than a PS4.

You also forget that PC gaming has been held back by consoles. Which is what happens. So for you to say PC games don't get maxed out, wrong.

With the launch of the new consoles, PC users will get games that properly utilized more of the resources.

How do you not understand that. If you had a PS5 running PS4 games and said, hey, this isn't taxing my PS5 system thus a PS4 is better, that's not a very sound argument.

40 percent on Crysis 3 is alot more than a PS4 can output. So on games like that yeah, PS4 will utilize 100 percent, because it HAS to.

What has been going on with the PC games in the end of 'last gen consoles' is not the same of what will happen in the beginning and middle stages of 'next gen consoles'.

[Sarcasm]

^I understand what you are saying.

It's not an Apples to Apples comparison.

Which is actually what I'm preaching. It just so happens most don't understand the differences.

Yes my 2600k at 4.4Ghz will probably get more of a work out in the future. But I'm stating for the past 3-4 years of PC gaming, even an i5-760 is still relevant TODAY.

But currently developers making games for PC are limited in SCOPE. Meaning, they can't make a game that will tax 100% of CPU resources for ALL PC Hardware out there. IF they did, then PC games would probably be literally 5 times better than modern games of today.

The reason I used Crysis 3 as an example, is because currently it is the most demanding title I've seen to date and yet only utilizes at MOST 40% of my CPU, with average probably more around 30%.

But it isn't just CPU usage, RAM is important too when it comes to game development. Again, the only time I've seen my GTX 680GB allocate its full 2GB of VRAM is in Crysis 3 (in 1080P). For the past year, nothing even came close.

So we have all this wonderful PC hardware that isn't tapped, because PC developers never felt like it needed to.

My whole point is that PC gamers and gamers in general need to realize that the PS4 is much more relevant and powerful than some are giving credit for.

If the rumored specs of the NeXtBox are true, then it will have 8 threads and a GPU too. So now we know PC games developers HAVE NO MORE EXCUSES to push PC hardware. And I'm not talking about just numbers, but efficiency in coding.

Man I haven't been this excited in awhile though talking about games lol

[ratcop22]

This console will probably do Mods. And the power is no slouch future proof.

[TechnicianTed]

'This console will probably do Mods.'

I very much doubt it.

[a_squirrel]

I seriously hope there will be support for mods. If it's a developer's console, (and if you know anything about BF1942-BF2) you'll see that developers like modders.

What they don't like are cheaters. The only way to get modding, is to regulate it somehow, and it 'may' be more trouble than they want to go through.

[J_Cob]

Yea, it would be like my '95 self comparing my then PC specs to the PS1. PC's were even more advanced than consoles back then, but it didn't matter. It was about gaming and having fun.

[Martywren]

@zeal0us i totally agree with u.

[piroh]

PC games are made for weaker computers in mind to sell the most, PS4 can unleash raw power. also Windows is hell of a brake for games. even PS3 exclusives look amazing and it´s 6 years old machine although i´m not saying anything bad on PC. it´s great fun for occasional gamers

[SephirothX21]

I'm impressed with PS4. I didn't think it would be as powerful but I disagree that PC gaming is for occasional gamers. I'm a hardcore gamer and I play most multi games on pc. My pc is already far more powerful than PS4. Sure Windows might take up more memory than a console's operating system but most processes in Windows can be turned off while playing. Consoles can never touch PC. Just this month, the GTX Titan was released which is currently the fastest gpu in the world. The PS4 gpu will be on par with a GTX 580 at around 1.84 tera flops. The GTX Titan has 4.5 teraflops.

http://www.lazygamer.net/ge...

Having said that, such power is unnecessary at this point and quite expensive. The main thing is that PS4 is a massive leap over PS3 and with UE4, we will see games take advantage of powerful PC hardware. The PS4 looks like the premium console for hardcore gamers and mainly for its exclusives, I'll be buying one on release. A lot to look forward to.

[THEDON82z1]

Agreed!!!!

[reznik_zerosum]

ignorant fanboy

[jmc8888]

Not really. Each game is different.

Some games are made with PC's in mind, or mostly in mind.

Other games are made with last gen in mind and ported over.

True the devs want to make sure weaker computers can play the games, but that's why there's a tens of thousands if not more combination settings (permutations) in PC settings.

So when you load up a PC game you'll have

low textures
medium textures
high textures
very high textures
ultra textures

Then about 5-20 something other things with the same or close to it options.

Some might just have 3 options for a particular settings. A few will have more. Some might just be a checkmark. Things like FOV will be on a slider.

So really, they have lower end PC's in mind, but generally even the lowest PC settings these days are above that of a 360/PS3

People forget that the minimum specs aren't the minimum specs. You generally can get away with far lower than the minimum specs suggest.

PLUS 360/PS3 were gaming in 588-604p resolution for most games.

I don't think there are resolutions that low anymore on most games. Thus higher specs are a result of a higher quality bottom then consoles get.

People claim it's all about optimization, that's bs.

Optimization gains you at most 50 percent, and even then, as time goes on the PC driver updates reduce that difference, and thus overall the optimizations are mostly a bit overblown.

The only real advantage now is the design having all the parts closer together and thus lower latency allowing more to happen because each part waits less. But that's really only about 50 percent as well.

PS3 exclusives look good for a PS3. I'd like to see uncharted series at 1080p 60fps with ultra textures, tessellation, and many of the other DX11 features.

People don't understand how PS3 produced great for IT'S capabilities, but were vastly overshadowed years ago by PC's. A PS3 was maxed out by 2007. The reason is, they never made every game 1080p. Only a few small resource light indie titles really.

Now that's not the same as maxing out internally what the system could do.

Because those are TWO different things.

The PS3 found ways to do more ways to paint something on a 10 inch canvas, but even early on the power was too limited to make a nice 18 inch masterpiece.

So what was capable of being displayed on the 10 inch was done better, but it's not the same.

Think of it like this way. It's like comparing two different car models. One faster than the other. So thus they can't compete with each other because the difference is too extreme.

But if you had two of the same cars, and modified one, you could get one to increase it's performance, but enough to change the overall dynamic of the system.

That's why the PS3 was BOTH maxed out in 2007 yet not fully utilized until recently. Both are true, because they mean two different things.

Oh and I game on all platforms. PS3/360/Wii U/PC and will be day one preorder of PS4 and 720.

[aliengmr]

Windows Vista was a system hog, but a decent processor and enough ram and you could plow through it just fine. Win 7 and 8 (especially 8) on the other hand have no effect on games.

It all comes down to how you frame the argument. Console developers have been able to do a lot with less for years. So tailoring a game specifically for that system may produce higher quality for certain games.

However, if you are talking simply raw power, PC wins every time. There is no limit to what you can add to a PC. Even if you could make the argument that PS4 could dominate any PC GPU, the reality is, in a PC you can drop in another.

Now as far as how PC games are made. Yes they do aim for lower end PCs but they aren't designed for low end PCs. The goal is to make sure the visuals look good on a low end machine while making the options available for the high end machines.

In terms of optimization I really don't think its going to be as big an issue as it was this gen. Multi-plats have gotten much better over the years and with the PS4 being much more similar to a PC than the PS3, I don't see that being to big of an issue this time around.

[OSIRUSSS]

PC has to deal with Windows the memory hog. The PS4 does not.

[fr0sty]

There's more to it than just that. PS4 has other advantages as well.

[ElementX]

Win 8 isn't much of a memory hog. Most PCs come with 8GB of RAM and gamers, who generally build their rigs, put in at least 8GB.

[Ducky]

I think with the social features the PS4 has, it's going to eat up a fair chunk of memory as well.

Besides, system ram isn't usually the bottleneck when it comes to performance of games on PC.

[jmc8888]

Really so the PS4 boots up games directly from a cartridge like a Sega Genesis?

Or does is have a massive overhead OS with always on features and constant streaming and downloading while you're not even aware of it, sending updates to worthless farcebook, with an overlay that allows you to surf the net while gaming......so on and so forth.

No, that isn't going to be a memory hog, that's why they're going to set aside probably 2GB's just for a console OS.

[aliengmr]

1. Win 8

2. RAM is just silly cheap.

3. A 3yo could upgrade the RAM in a PC.

Seriously, RAM is not a great argument for the PS4. There are better ones.

[superterabyte]

Yeah i'll upgrade to windows 8 when hell freezes over.

[aliengmr]

I actually downgraded to 7 myself. Performance-wise Win 8 was great (aside from a couple issues) but its just plain ugly and really doesn't feel like a desktop OS.

[a_squirrel]

There's other factors that people don't realize, like the latency of the kernel.

[Megaton]

PC and PS4 will be the best combo for gamers, just like PC and PS3 was.

[superterabyte]

You're probably right. Because everyone has a computer. With a few upgrades you could have a decent 'rig'. Personally although i'm not a PC gamer games like (well only) Arma 3 and day z are games I wanna play plus having a good rig can be functional for other tasks besides gaming.

Plus PS4 just looks beastly.

The real issue after this console gen (PS4, Nextbox) and for PC gaming in about 6-10 years is that physicists have predicted the end to moore's law which IMO would leave the PC worse off than consoles but both would suffer. We need to think about a replacement in a post silicon era.

[a_squirrel]

Actually... Steam Box should be able to satisfy the people who like to have the fastest stuff around.

[plaZeHD]

.

[DigitalSmoke]

Its not fair to compare the PS4 to a PC, not from a hardware standpoint where PC's just upgrade and grow in time.

But specially not from a software standpoint because there's so much more love and optimization going into these console titles as of late.

[MrGunny94]

Guys are we really comparing PCs to console? You know it's totaly diferent system and mechanics and structure right...?

[Zha1tan]

Man I just do not get this whole competition attitude of people today trying to justify their purchases or future purchases.

Just play what you enjoy most, I enjoy PC the most but I do love my Sony single players and I will definitely be picking up a PS4 and upgrading my PC.

[SkyGamer]

The moment sony makes the ps4 a pc, they will have to contend with the ever-rapid growing pc tech market meaning that it might have a life expectancy of 2-3 years. Make that less with laptop internals....

[josephayal]

Ps4 is on the same level as PC

[aquamala]

it is a PC

[xxLuckyStrike]

What you saw yesterday was running on PC. A 2 year old PC. Equal to the supposed specs for PS4. Get over yourselves.

[LAWSON72]

Too bad the ps4 can only run killzone at 30 fps with probably low aa. While the more demanding and better looking crysis 3 on pc can run on my $1000 pc with max settinga, ssao and 60 fps. Face it when it comes to gfx pc eill always win.

[chukamachine]

I'm playing crysis3 on ultra atm, it's very nice.

But I don't see anything that cannot be done on PS4, Heck moh warfighter is an amazing looking game. As is BF3.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

That game can be maxed on a lower spec rig then PS4.

I'll wait till I see all the new games coming.

I was impressed by killzone.

Early days yet.

[Twignberries]

Ha! You do realise there is no "ultra" setting in crysis 3 yeah? You're full of shit because if you really were playing it maxed you honestly would not be so smug about ps4 anymore..

[jmc8888]

Not really. You're not far off, but 1.8 TFlops will not suddenly perform like 3+ TFlops.

Which is basically needed to perform as you state.

My GTX 670 is close and I have an i7 920 @4ghz pushing it.

The 8 core CPU is much poorer than an i7 at stock speeds as it's a low power tablet/mobile chip running at 1.6 Ghz.

Yes it definitely faster than was in the last generation, but still.

So you have a midrange 2011 GPU being pushed by a midrange 2007-2008 CPU. Then add a small percentage for optimization and decent percentage for latency advantage, and you still don't get something that can run those on ultra settings.

Now high or very high settings? Sure. Ultra. No.

My Crysis 3 just arrived, time to install it.

Good day to all, and enjoy your system, they all will have fun in it, but let's not pretend or think we need to hype certain consoles as better then they are, especially when they don't need to be that good to be enjoyed.

[DigitalSmoke]

Your jealousy glows from the name dude.

Serious now, Crysis looks like a kids game compared to what we have seen in an ALPHA DEMO version of Killzone, nd knowing GG, they will touch up the game so that its worlds appart from what we have seen so far, they always do.

Good luck chocking on that twinky (again) when you see it in 6 month's.

[Studio-YaMi]

All I see is PC Elites(not all of them) & fanboys trying hardly to debunk the fact that the PS4 can run most of their so called "ultra settings games" with ease.

Proof was shown & we saw it with our own eyes,the PC developers jumping ships,the praise the PS4 getting from PC developers of how easy and powerful it is,the game we were shown like Killzone : shadow fall & that Quantom Dream ingame-engine.

Maybe if you remove that Fanboyish glasses,you'll see.

Edit:
@disagrees

the games will be speaking for what the console can do,now shoo ! :\

[iamgoatman]

"Maybe if you remove that Fanboyish glasses,you'll see."

I always love it when people say this and not even see a hint of irony.

[Studio-YaMi]

Never was a Fanboy,never will,I stated a simple fact,games will speak for what the console can do,isn't that logical to you !? :|

Since it was announced,all day long PC fanboys have been raging in every PS4 article either saying their rig is more powerful or that the PS4 isn't better than a mid range PC.

Show me a game on PC that's not modded in ultra settings that Killzone : shadow fall couldn't achieve the same level of graphics then come back to me.

Edit:
Btw,I never said that PS4 is more powerful than a high end PC,I said before on another article that PC devs aren't taking advantage of all that horse power that a powerful PC rig have,it's nothing but wasted power,show me a game on PC that couldn't be achieved on the PS4 on ultra settings.

[aliengmr]

1080 will likely be the res of next gen games. PCs have been capable of higher for a while now.

Will PS4 have incredible looking games, sure. But I don't think you understand what "ultra settings" means.

On the PS4 the games (like always) will be configured to run with best performance possible with high quality visuals. If you take a PC with the same specs as the PS4 you would be able to max out the settings, which will cause the performance to decrease.

"Ultra settings" are there because you can upgrade a PC. So its much higher than most can handle at a given time. It also allows the PC developers to push the eye candy, for the sake of pushing the limits.

None of that is a knock against the PS4. It just is what it is. Crysis was a beast when it was released but now its not. With a uniform system you can push the limits of a known quantity. On PC they push the unknown quantity.

[Studio-YaMi]

Thanks for clearing that up,I never meant anything against the PC community or fans,only Elites who keeps rubbing it into console gamer noses.

I understand what you're saying & I agree with that.

Probably in 2 years from now,the PS4 graphics we've seen might be considered old again because as you said,a PC can be upgraded,consoles cannot do that.

But till now,I haven't seen a PC game looking better or let's say "noticeable" leap in graphics that what we saw from battle field 3 or killzone shadow fly unless modes are involved.

I'm admitting that a powered gaming rig can outshine the PS4 anyday,but the developers aren't making games that show that raw power ! that's the point here,that's why I said "let the games speak for the console".

Thanks for the respectful comment & I'm sorry if PC fans think I'm taking jabs at them,wasn't my intention,only speaking about fanboys & PC elites.

[akaakaaka]

the pc vs PS4"Ali"

[solar]

It's already running low/mid pc parts. The cpu is based off the terrible Jaguar architecture. It will be a nice system. But no where near what a PC can do. Please stop lying to yourselves!!!

[gazgriff2k12]

if battlefield 4 on ps4 runs at 60fps and has 64 players i don't need to buy a fancy new pc. ive been wanting to build a pc for quite some time before the launch of ps3. im willing to spend £800 on a pc but time and time again the pc games im interested in keep getting released on consoles plus i have a good laptop to play none demanding pc exclusives with the announcement of diablo 3 on ps4 there is no reason 4 me to get a pc. ps4 will have all the pc games i want to play plus ps exclusives win win win cant wait to play witcher 3, fallout 4, new elder scrolls game, battlefeild 4 (with same number of players as pc), destiny, new bioshock, half life 3, gta5..........

[DivineAssault]

it really doesnt matter.. With PS4, im getting all the newest & best games by AAA devs as well as indies.. Im also getting exclusives & great features unparalleled by anyone else.. RE7, im getting it on PS4.. Bioshock 3, im getting it on PS4.. AC4, im getting it on PS4.. Dark Souls 3, im getting it on PS4.. Etc etc etc..

PC builders can have greater graphics or whatever but ill get my games too & theyll be optimized for the PS4 so they wont look ugly by any means.. PS4 will also have features (in game features too) PCs CANT do.. Screw paying $100s of dollars every year to upgrade all the time.. im good with a home console.. Oh & PS4 will play used PS4 games & support 4k PICTURE & MOVIE playback.. (not games but who knows if itl upscale beyond 1080p in the future?) only thing that sucks is PS3 discs wont work nor will digital PS3 games.. Emulation is possible tho

[THEDON82z1]

Yeah ,thats how I fell I already have the money just waiting for the day to plot my preorder strategy(now thats going to be the fight!!!!),but anyway I completly agree!!

[thebudgetgamer]

Specs smecs I say, it's Sony's first party studios that I'm interested in.

[Bordel_1900]

It's already been said above here. It's all about the games, Sony and PlayStation have a lot of exclusive games that are not available on PC. All these games will make me buy a PS4. My PC will always be more powerful than any console on the market and will have it's share of exclusives also. PS4 and PC will be the best combo for gaming just like PC and PS3 is today.

[Capodastaro]

"Shared memory would also allow things like generating geometry on the GPU, doing collision detection on the CPU and rasterizing on the GPU again without any readbacks or copying of memory."

What is he talking about? You would use GPU anyway to compute the largest value from all the pixels in the scene anyway which would reduce the floating point to just a single.

You don't need a SoC to do that, not to mention how big does he think the bus width is? Also utilizing UMA requires mutual exclusion to avoid two processes running at the exact same time, which voids all of his statement.

[Lifebanisher]

ps4 - spectate your friends and then eat popcorn on a friday night game session enough said.

oh wait 1 more thing better wash your hands before trying to help your friend getting through a level his stuck on.

[Cid33]

i don't see any PC software or games written for 8 cores in mind, were developers can wright specific code to each core to calculate, that's why it will be able to deliver more than a PC on similar hardware. still pc will catch up fast but an 600$ pc wont be able to have thatt level of quality right now. consoles are about ease of use to be able to play the latest games 5-7 years down the line with no hassle

[sway_z]

I used to think that 360/PS3 comparisons were bad...but PC gamers are making them look acceptable....

PS4 (or any console) cannot be compared to an ever evolving PC fullstop!

Many PC Gamers behave like ungrateful elitists....

[Capodastaro]

On the flipside you have all of the PS fanboys screaming and shouting about GDDR5 without having a clue of its functions, advantages, disadvantages and acting like its this fantastic new invention nobody has ever had the pleasure of using before...

Can't win em all.

[gdguide]

Some of you obviously didn't even read the article.

Hey, and can some of you PC guys show me a PC that can run Uncharted 3 or Killzone 3 on basically 256mb of ram? The PS3 specs are brutal by PC gamer standards, and yet I can't see a PC with the specs of a PS3 coming even close.

It's not about just raw specs. And the specs that DO matter as mentioned in the article? None of you addressed it.

Basically for those who are lazy, the GPU and CPU access to the super high bandwidth ram is way faster than the comparable PC specs you PC guys are trying to compare. It's not at all that simple. Add to that developers creating games to maximize this spec instead of trying to make a game as compatible as possible across endless PC configurations, you have a heck of a lot more potential that just spewing out specs to us like we're idiots.

Yes, PCs can outdo the PS4. But don't say that spec for spec a $600 PC will be able to do what the PS4 does 3-4 years from now. Again.... Show me a game looking as good as Killzone 3 on a PC with 256mb of ram. Developers on consoles stretch the potential wayyyyy higher than PC developers.

[hesido]

Agreed.

No PC for a good while will have unified GDDR5 speed Ram pool. The CPU and GPU will continue to access different Ram pools, and reading from the "far" pool will always be slower.

What does the unified Ram pool provide? On top of what NeoGaf user .nimrod mentions, you will be able to have GPU particles that affect gameplay and game logic, not just extra eyecandy that we see on current titles. These will be mostly be utilized on exclusive titles, tho, as multiplatform titles will want to avoid platform bound features that affect gameplay and logic.

[ninjahunter]

Thats a straw man argument, Ram has not had an effect on performance in years and is a cheap commodity, not to mention its also a false statement since the PS3 had 512mb of ram. Which tons of PC games run on. Heck, i just loaded up Hard reset to see, Game was using 560mb of ram. I tried hitman absolution too, 640mb of ram...

Hmm that cant be right, PC games are supposed to be un optimized system hogs...
Oh wait, lets throw in the OS, lets see idle windows 8 (with win7 UI) is packing 260mb... I guess thats a pretty big chunk... IDK man, all these console gamers who know nothing about PC gaming say its unoptimized, i guess they must be right.

PS heres a benchmark showing the difference in ram between DDR2 and DDR3 to give you an idea of how massive the leap to GDDR5 for system ram is:

http://images.tweaktown.com...

[sorceror171]

The PS3 had 512MB of RAM *total*, but it was split - 256MB for the CPU, 256MB for the GPU.

[lovegames718]

Wheres pcz....

That troll mad at the world bcus Sony, not only has the power behind the ps4 to make current gen systems look weak (Ps3, xbox and wiiu) But is also innovating in the social aspects, how we play games on the go, how we play demos instantly and so forth

[GiantFriendlyCrab]

...by pirating pc games, like most pc gamers do (90-95%), they can save money to upgrade their PC. No wonder developers are tired of piracy. Now that ps4 is based on x86 architecture with unified 8gb gddr5 ram(more than enough for the entire generation), pc game developers can begin to shift focus to the ps4, and and earn money and for their hard appreciated work. Im seeing Ps4 as the lead platform very soon.

[kwyjibo]

Sadly for arq888, facts and reality disagree.

Biggest game in the world right now - League of Legends. Steam figures only going one way.

PC install base - massive. Next gen install base - zero.

[Saryk]

What is arq888 smoking? I want some and have the bong to put it in!

It is highly stupid to compare PC versus anything, except maybe a MAC. When the Xbox comes out, then they can make a comparison!

Comparing a PC to a PS4 is like comparing Mike Tyson in a bikini versus Kate Upton!

[GiantFriendlyCrab]

you can keep your rts, simulations pc games; wich are perfect for what keyboard and mouse

[kwyjibo]

Planetside 2 is perfect for keyboard and mouse too. Reckon we'll let you have that somewhere down the line though, we're generous like that.

[iamgoatman]

Seriously, how can people be so ignorant?

[StreetsofRage]

On my cell phone, that picture doesn't look right.

[solid_warlord]

PC fanboys are coming out loud cause they are MAAAAD!

Killzone for PS4 looks way better than current PC harcore fans favorite sex toy...Crysis 3.

In the end, PC is all about graphics. Sure, allot of the multiplatform games do come to PC with sexed up port but sometimes top third party games usually remain exclusive to console or come way later for PC(GTA/MGS/Destiny ect)

Consoles are all about better Games, yes it hurts PC gamers to mension this but its true. Halo, Gears, Uncharted, Last of US, Killzone and God of War are afew examples of games that look fantastic and can only be seen on consoles. They are also better than any exclusives PC has. PC can have there RPG/MMO/RTS that hardly utilize PC to its fullest.

All in all :
PC = Better Graphics
Consoles= Better Games

[GiantFriendlyCrab]

all hail the pc master race. Im just teasing you pc fanboys :)

[ninjahunter]

You jelly of my golden locks and Glorious fap fingers? ._. Wait.... Haha I think i got jipped :P

[Bordel_1900]

Console = Better Games? You know that ALL multiplatform games are better on PC right?

Since a couple of years ago I play all multiplat on my PC with my PS3 controller. PS3 version 20-30 frames pr. second at 720p or less native resolution and low res textures. PC runs the same game at 1080p 60 frames/s often with a lot better textures and gfx effects.

So, the only games that are left are the console exclusives, and some of them are very very good, but PC also has some very good exclusives. I'm content with a combination of my PC and my PS3 (PS4 when it releases).

[kingrev]

I just find all this comparasion and shit completely stupid, yes we can not deny PC will always evolve and that's the reason consoles will always be behind, but the thing is, it does not matter how powerful your pc is if it doesn't have the games, if you are true gamer then you will piss on the console wars and care more about the games and enjoy the experiences that those games offer, now if we look back not many PCs games have put the current gen to shame yes games like crysis on pc looks amazing but thats about it, it took almost 4 years for PCs to actually put their hardware to work and show off what they were capable of but at the end of the day PC gamers didn't have the chance to play games like god of war, uncharted, gran turismo and finally put the amount of money they spent in use because this games have an amazing level of detail and that for me is what sucks

[seanpitt23]

What pc gamers don't understand is nobody is bothered to make a triple a game for pc because there is no money in it. Pc gamers would have nothing if it wasnt for the console gamers take gta5 do you think they would make a game like that if there was no consoles think again. so when saying the ps4 is whey under powered compared to pc the ps4 is your bread and butter and it might be under powered compared to pc but they have the best developers in the world to make the ps4 games out of this world whats the point in having all that horsepower in the pc if nobody is going to take advantage of it.

[Bordel_1900]

I think you make a good point, but I think you push it too far. There are some very good exclusive AAA PC titles out there also. But, yes, some of the multiplatforms would probably not exist if it wasn't for console. Then again, if console didn't exist, many more would have good gaming PCs and maybe many of the AAA games you are talking about would see the light of day anyway.

[seanpitt23]

I know but I just get a bit mad that pc gamers are saying the ps4 is out of date before it it's the shelves and slagging it off and saying there pc is way more powerful there is just no need I mean why don't people just respect other people's choice of gaming some like consoles some like pc so what if there pc is better who cares

[majedx9]

ahhmm F U C K PC

[leogets]

out of date? fucking nerds know nothing.. OK so let's say ps4 is triple the power of your PCs u cunts still wouldn't like it. there's no pleasing u arrogant nerdy know it all fuck tards. fact is u know fuckall. ohh u have paid x amount on graphics cards yada yada yada. the devas know more than u lot and how to use these cards etc. no point having a power house PC when no one uses the potential now is it.

[Psychotica]

Was that English?

[cyhm3112]

stupid pc fanboys want to feel superior , it is what all this is about, hahahahaha, stupid

[urwifeminder]

Pc is where its at for me.

[PCpower]

You consolers keep on touting that the PS4 will use more of its hardware potential because of software optimizations. It does not matter against high end PC hardware because it is so powerful that poor optimization still allows larger compute power because of the large amounts of potential power. Also high end video cards can crack long passwords in minutes, do bitcoin mining, help find cure for cancer and other tasks MUCH faster than the PS4 could if these programs were to the metal programmed for the PS4's GPU. In fact, I bet $1000 to any charity you guys choose that the PS4 will not equal or exceed the performance of an AMD HD7950 or AMD HD7970 video card in these compute tasks, even though they are being bottle-necked through Windows OS. I have an HD7970 video card.

Finally. you consolers need to realize that developers of PC games have different levels of graphics quality settings that the PC gamer can choose from that will allow the game to perform well on their hardware. The only PC gamers that like to spend uber amounts of money and like to upgrade every 6 months are the graphics whores that like to set all their graphics settings in PC games to ultra with 16X AF and 8X MSAA and use 42" monitors or muli-montitors. If you check the Steam hardware surveys you will see many PC gamers have midrange or lower spec parts. If you want to be a graphics whore then go play that silly Crysis game, but many PC gamers just like to play games for the experience just as consolers do.

[ThreshStar]

Here's how the real world works with technology/anything:

If I buy a house, car, etc. and NEVER upgrade anything on it, it will deteriorate.

For example, if you buy a car but don't replace your brake pads, get the transmission changed, rotate the tires, put in new air fresheners, etc, EVENTUALLY it won't be of any value.

Now if I take the exact same car, replace the tires, replace the brakes, add a sound system, heck even replace it with a brand new engine, the LONGEVITY of my car will definitely outlast yours.

It's simple math/experience. Stop acting like a console can beat a PC in terms of technology, it can't - IT'S NOT DESIGNED TO. It's designed to give gamers an ALL-INCLUSIVE gaming/entertainment experience. If a better graphics card can improve framerates, increase textures, etc. You CAN'T UPGRADE YOUR CONSOLE.

Just enjoy your damn console and stop acting like it's the second coming of Jesus.

[ATi_Elite]

OMG now I gotta endure the whole PS4 vs. PC thing for the next 7 years......FACEPALM!

....and NO MATTER what FACTS you bring up, "Some" Sony fanboys will not listen and blindly believe the PS4 is their "God" like some whacked out Cult wearing Snuggies and drinking Death Juice.

but here goes anyway.........The PS4 is a x86 PC, end of story!

Consoles are DEAD and the PS4 is NOT a console cause it's a x86 PC.

Now you can compare your x86 PS4 PC to my Intel X86-64 PC anytime you want to but WE ALL KNOW INTEL CRUSHES AMD!

So far I like the PS4 PC and I can't wait to run it on my PC cause with the PS4 being x86 a emulator should be coming really fast!

[ZBlacktt]

Did you pay $450 for everything to make your gaming PC? If we just got the console only in the PS4. No controllers, eye, anything. That would be well under $350. So again, you are not even on par with the value and experience here. The PS4 is a super computer alright and one everyone can own. Plus, PC gaming is dead. All PCer's talk about is hardware anyway.

Sony and MS are multi multi billion dollar companies. You think some random screen name joe blow is going to know more business sense? They are not out to out do every super computer on the planet here. But to just give the console gamer something extremely awesome to have and use. All while still being able to be extremely affordable.

[Triggytrolls]

I've only just built a decent PC, mainly because there is nothing to play on 360. I'm hooked on Arma 2 OA multiplayer mode wasteland at the moment, it's really good.

I also like the fact I'm not getting ripped off downloading games from steam. cough xblm cough.

[ZBlacktt]

In other words, the PS4 is a beast.

[ZitterZap]

I think PS4 has the hardware to handle many current high end PC games like Planetside 2 and BF3 with 64 players which the PS3 can't that's all I care about.

PS3 has had great games despite being so under powered compared to PCs hopefully it will be the same for the PS4.

[goldwyncq]

It's not about how much power the ps4 has, it's about utilizing the most out of whatever power available the system has that will make a game stand out.

[andyboy13]

I'm a PC gamer and in my opinion, it comes down to optimization. When you only need to dev for 1 set of hardware and you know its exact properties, its easier to get performance

[SugarSoSweet]

@Decrypt The PS3 didn't use a true of the shelf Nvidia 7800 it was made significantly weaker

[Axwelll]

It isn't about the power, it's about the games. Still, Nintendo sucks.

[Martywren]

the real question i want too know is wat gabe newell going too do with his new console is going too mod it too out beat ps4 tech and ms?

[SJPFTW]

LOL that was what the fanboys said about the cell processor. Yet struggles to even run Skyrim properly ha

[Indo]

You can't compare a Gaming Console to a Gaming PC its a stupid topic. A Gaming PC will always have that advantage of newly released hardware through out the years to come.