Sony returns to black in Q3 on asset, product sales

Feb 7 (Reuters) - Sony Corp posted a third-quarter operating profit after a loss a year ago, supported by lower costs and proceeds from asset sales that are helping it offset weak demand for its TVs and other devices. In the three months to Dec. 31, Sony posted a 46.4 billion yen ($496 million) operating profit, compared with a 91.7 billion yen loss a year ago.

[majiebeast]

Thats good news for Sony but they have a long way to go, but with Kaz at the wheel it is very much possible. Let 20th FEB roll in and show me those next gen ps4 games.

[aceitman]

a start for them to continue to the road of ps2 era where they can be on top again .

[Dante112]

Congrats Sony, keep it up. Lol, I was wonder why this Sony report was taking so long to get approved on here. This usually gets approved within the first five minutes but this has been in pending for about forty five minutes so far.

[jujubee88]

This ones for you, Kaz.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

:)

[G20WLY]

From the article, "Since the start of the year Sony's shares have gained nearly 60 percent" - and this before the PS4 has been announced? That's pretty amazing!

Keep up the momentum, seems he shareholders are liking the changes that have been made...very much :)

[Ezz2013]

no one here said any thing about sony shares are up to 60%

edit: @g20wly
you beat me to it

[Ezz2013]

ok i gone to neogaf and i saw that ps3/ps2 sold 6.8million
http://www.sony.net/SonyInf...

from my understanding...if i'm wrong some one correct me

IDC forecasted 77million ps3s,
this new report sony had what, 76 million ps3s? 1million less than the IDC report
(notice i took out 0.8million for ps2)

what MS xbox360 numbers ?! ..75.9million

ps3 76million
xbox360 75.9million

so they are tie or ps3 is indeed ahead

so i don't understand where did xbox guys come with ps3 is in 3rd place

again if i'm wrong on anything some one correct me

[Muerte2494]

Sony is no longer tracking ps2 sales. Going from what we know from the IDC report and Sony's q2 + q3 reports last year, it's 77 million.

ps3 q2 report.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
70.2 million (as of September 30th 2012)

70.2 + 6.8 = 77 Million

This falls exactly in line with the IDC prediction. Just like they were spot on with their Microsoft prediction 76 million (MS report 75.9). People made this same argument when Sony released their Q2 numbers. Then when the IDC report came out people said..."I didn't think it would happen that soon". IDC has been been accurate so far. I doubt they would risk their firms reputation stating "ps3 has overtaken xbox360" if they weren't 100% sure.

I think profits are down because of Vita sales and ps4 development. Vita is going to need a price cut. Guarantee you're going to be able to use your vita with your ps4 as a primary or secondary controller

[starchild]

Sony has done an incredible job learning from their mistakes.

I have very high hopes for the PS4. Judging by all the rumors the PS4 should be easy to work with, powerful, and more affordable at launch than the PS3 was.

I think they are on the right track to dominate the home console industry again.

[MaxXAttaxX]

At first it was games, then sales and now they're playing the "profit" game.
For every positive PlayStation related article, there's always someone turning it into a negative.

[Good_Guy_Jamal]

Finally. Just putting the facts in one place here so please mods, do not hurt me.
Q3 results for gaming divisions as per Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony reports:
Microsoft - $542.3 million in profit for Xbox business (Xbox 360)
Nintendo - $450 million in profit (DS, 3DS, Wii, WiiU)
SONY - $6 million in profit for the games business (PS2, PSP, PS3, PS VITA)
Profits all around. Yay.
Looks like whatever Microsoft is doing is working for them.

Footnote. I am well aware that EDD consists of more than just xbox business which is why I have deducted 9% off the total. Why 9% you ask? A report in 2012 showed that xbox business accounted for 99.1% of all EDD revenue in 2011. So I decided to be safe and make that 0.9% into 9%. The more accurate number would be $590.6 million but that would be unacceptable round these here parts so there you go.

[Hingle_Mcringleberry]

Dude no way!! You're telling me Xbox 360 on its own made almost a hundred times more profit than the whole Playstation family? I don't know what to say to that. I want to cry and laugh so hard. You've put me in an emotional coma after that.
Wow, holiday season and SONY walk away with 6 million from their games department. What's the point??

[neoMAXMLC]

Can't imagine how different things would be if people ever smartened up and stopped paying for Xbox Live.

[Highlife]

Well if you had owned an xbox360 from the begining and were paying for live the entire time you would be around $350. Damn what a shame. To think people would actually pay that much for live. I guess MS is smart people will pay for anyting.

[GalacticEmpire]

Congratulations, you managed to turn a positive Sony article into...

"ner ner MS makes more profits!"

...without either using any backed up numbers or getting marked for stealth trolling, I tip my hat to you sir.

[_FantasmA_]

Doesn't matter how much M$ profits. They don't give you anything anyways. They just take your money and ask you pay them some more. You'd think they would invest in some high quality studios to bring you something other than 11 Halo and Gears games. Instead they recycle their only 2 games, charge you to play online. Meanwhile Sony doesn't make much profit and yet they continue to innovate and bring what really matters in a console and that is GAMES!

[SilentNegotiator]

Thanks for the "facts"

Now how about a source/link?

[UnholyLight]

Great for Sony! This coming from an Xbox guy haha. I hope Kaz can lead Sony into new paths. I actually really like the guy and want to see him succeed in bringing Sony some more glory.

Better for all us gamers.

[omegaheat]

I don't give a shit about how good an offshore company is doing. I strongly support american products. When Microsoft created the Xbox360, it was a game changer. Before the console, I remember we would have to wait a year or more before consoles even touched our soil, and then another year before we could play the games that were enjoyed by japanese gamers. Microsoft changed the game by releasing the console worldwide within just a few months. Sony followed, and it's been great for gamers ever since.

[DwightOwen]

True. I still remember the agonizing wait Americans had to endure before we could play the Dreamcast.

[C-Thunder]

Who gives a $hit about an American company if they're manufacturing off shore any way? Not to mention the American attitude that comes with it; "oh let's just advertise the hell out of our system, we don't really need games"

[otherZinc]

@Ezz2013

I didnt see where SONY said they were leading the XBOX 360 in world wide sales.

See, in an article like that, it should state as such.

Again, SONY cant make a statement to its shareholders that is false!

I'll continue to wait for SONY to release such a comment!

@Good_Guy_Jamal,

Thank you for stating Shareholders Information.
Its hard to discount Financial Facts.

[kenshiro100]

...What does this have to do with sales? Sony's back in the black. That's what the discussion is about.

Get off your horse.

[showtimefolks]

sony is on right track just make the right decisions for future, PS brad is profitable and should be a bigger focus while the TV department needs to step their game up

[Prodigy-X]

Good Job Sony

[MastaMold]

Indeed and with Feb 20 coming up and whatever the announce on that day be it new software or hardware they might see more profit good way to start 2013

[banjadude]

Looks like Kaz was the right man!

[r21]

Was gonna post a gif bout Kaz but its apparently spam. Anywys, Kaz is doing a great job so far :D

[RememberThe357]

All you have to do is either rearrange your comment or attach it to the comment and it should work.

[r21]

Here it goes

Edit: Nope, i give up!
Basically, just a gif of Kaz nodding and winking

[Riderz1337]

Guys I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it seems as if the operating profit is in fact 496 million, however the net income is a $115 million LOSS. In comparison, Nintendo posted a $450 million profit. Their gaming division was a $6 million profit which is very bad news, especially since this is for the holiday season. 6.8m PS3/PS2 were sold, last year .9 PS2's were sold during the same time this year so I think it's safe to say 6m+ PS3's shipped. I'll link article to the 115m net loss.

http://abcnews.go.com/Techn...

Edit - It is still somewhat good news though, considering last year they had a 158 billion Yen loss. Only 10.7 billion Yen loss this year and it doesn't include the 1.1B NY headquarters they sold.

Edit 2 - I believe the gaming division only had a $6 million profit because of the R&D for the PS4.

[Gr81]

Its best to keep comments like this to yourself. Here on N4G there is no such thing as objectivity..or reality; Especially when it comes to Sony. You'd be better off at VGChartz ; )

[pixelsword]

Yeah, because VGChartz is the paragon of objectivity and accuracy.

[shikamaroooo]

Are you serious ...... Sony is on track to make Profit next quarter, and here you're "bearing bad news"

[Riderz1337]

Yes I realize they are on track to make a profit, but I'm talking about what's happening now not what will happen in the future. Not to mention the fact that they will most likely post a profit due to the sale of some of their headquarters such as the one in NYC which sold for 1.1 billion dollars. I understand they are on track to making profits but I don't think we should be celebrating yet. Expect Sony stock to plummet tomorrow.

[G20WLY]

^Riderz1337, you said "I'm talking about what's happening now not what will happen in the future"

No, you're not; you're talking about what HAS happened already, which is of less interest to any company than what is about to happen, based on past experience and current trend/trajectory. Forecast is far more important, especially to shareholders.

This article is about operating income and shareprice, not net income which is veering offtopic. In any company financials you can find figures that look good and figures that look bad, but mate, if you look a little closer, the glass is definitely half full! ;)

[RememberThe357]

Thats weird. The source article states completely different numbers than your article.

ABCNews: "Sony on Thursday reported a 10.7 billion yen ($115 million) loss for the October-December quarter compared with a 158 billion yen loss a year earlier." (corroborated with other sources)

Reuters: "In the three months to Dec. 31, Sony posted a 46.4 billion yen ($496 million) operating profit, compared with a 91.7 billion yen loss a year ago."

Where the hell did Reuters get their numbers? Something is off here. Either there is some semantics going on that I don't recognize or someone has some false info.

Either way Sony is getting back to the black as they are much closer than they were a year ago. It looks like Kaz and his people are making the right moves even if they are the hard ones.

=====

EDIT: According to Sony's report ( http://www.sony.net/SonyInf... ) Reuters is reporting the Operating Income (46.4 billion yen) witch is what they made before taxes and interest. The other sources are reporting Net Loss (10.7 billion yen) and that is the real number after taxes and interest.

So operationally they are in the black ( where they want to be), but they need to increase that margin to make up for the taxes and other fees.

[insomnium2]

I was just going to tell you that operating profits are not the same as profits but it seems you got it already.

Yen plays a big part in all this. In essance they would have to hike the prices with every console shipped outside Japan but I bet that would stop the shipments entirely so they sell their consoles with MUCH less profit outside Japan. I bet they get next to no profit at all outside Japan because of the strong Yen. It counts for tens of millions of lost profits in dollars.

I think the new super slim brings in much more profits but I forgot when it was launched so I'm not sure how much it affected this period.

edit: Just so people know the upcoming profits next quarter that is due to sold HQ or something has nothing to do with operational profits. That gets taken off the balance sheet and is counted as random income or something along the lines. It gets added into income statement in the very end for the sole reason that it is clearly separated from operational numbers. I just thought to clear this up if someone was thinking about it.

Operational income is always a good news. All that is left is to axe the excess stuff from the balance sheet that keep the total income low or in the red. Pay off some of your debts Sony.

It seems Kaz knows what he is doing so I'm glad.

[Saigon]

Remember that the company is also a Financial institution.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInf...

Meaning that they are going to always operate at a loss.

[Karpetburnz]

This is great.

[Steckmech]

I'm proud to hear them doing well. Must say I'm much more excited for the new PS4 than the next Xbox. Sony's future looks bright!

PROUD PS+ subscriber!

[Cocozero]

Looks like the 360 is still ahead of the PS3, at least by what Sony is saying. Will be interesting to see who the fanboys believe...

[black911]

360 sales are From RROD!!!! If The PS3 YLOD was as serious as the RROD ps3 sales would be over 100million "FACT"!

[Lvl_up_gamer]

LMFAO @ your "FACTS"

Where are your numbers on the amount of RROD recorded BEFORE the 3 year warranty was introduced?

What is the number of 360 SOLD to consumers due to RROD related issues?

You have no facts, you have just fanboy anger.

[gobluesamg]

Definitely not fact but I would say an educated guess and a safe bet.

[RTheRebel]

cmon sony stop being afraid and show those ps3 numbers!!!!

[Riderz1337]

It's pretty easy to predict. Same time last year they had .9m PS2's shipped. This year it's 6.8m PS2/PS3 total. PS3 should easily have over 6m shipped.

[Dante112]

Also note that the Ps2 has been discontinued and I believe that Sony came out with a new PS3 slim console.

[RTheRebel]

more research has to be done
neogaf ago

[nukeitall]

@Riderz1337:

If it was, Sony would have likely trumped those numbers instead of combining them like that to hide the facts.

Either way, that report about PS3 overtaking the Xbox 360 now seems wrong!

[hiptanaka]

Whether you're a Sony fanboy or Microsoft fanboy, this is good news for the industry. It sounds pathetic to root for a corporation presumably only interested in its bottom line, but as a gamer I recognize the inherent benefit of a gaming powerhouse back on the rebound. Good work Sony.

[EffectO]

I guess selling buildings has its advantages.

Also PS3 goes back to third place.I wonder if n4g will be full with 360>PS3 articles...

[DiRtY]

LoL that is some cherry picking.

Again some facts I will get disagrees for:

- Sony lost money. The profit is an operating one. The net income is negative. 124 million USD loss.

- The Playstation division made a profit, but a VERY tiny one of 6 million USD. Compared to MS 600 million for the Xbox division or Nintendo 450 million USD.

- The PS3 is still in 3rd place. The IDC report, which was based on estimates was wrong. But that was expected from those who actually have a clue. Of course N4G users were not among those people.

- The PS Vita and the PSP sold 2.7 million COMBINED! In comparison, the Xbox 360 sold 6 million alone in the same timeframe in its 7th year. The Wii U, the console where everyone talks about the slow sales, sold 3 million on its own. And the PSP sold close to 300k just in Japan. So 2.0 million maybe 2.3 million for the Vita during the holidays is an educated guess.

- The progress Sony made was mainly driven by the weaker Yen.

So yeah, Sony might be on the right way, but they are still losing money. The gaming division is not the big money maker people on N4G tell you.

Just facts people.

[MasterCornholio]

But they are improving which is the main point of this article. Soon Sony will be able to make a profit again and that should solidify their position as a console manufacturer.

Thanks for the info though.

[modesign]

sony is a entertainment company, they have business in movie, music, gaming, software, and technology. microsoft is windows and xbox so there profits will be heavely on software. nintendo only makes games, and their wii train is dead on the tracks.

[Ezz2013]

"The PS3 is still in 3rd place. The IDC report, which was based on estimates was wrong. But that was expected from those who actually have a clue. Of course N4G users were not among those people."

what ps3 are new numbers?!...i didn't see it in the report
so how did you come up with ps3 still in 3rd place ?!

do you know ps3 numbers ?! ...care to share them ?!

it must be me because i don't know

[BitbyDeath]

Thought it'd take longer to get back in black.
Good work Kaz

[TheLyonKing]

I beleive selling the building helped offset the loss it made last year so....we will wait and see.

[Good_Guy_Jamal]

Not true, this report covers only up until December 31, they sold that building sometime in January if I recall correctly. So that 1.1 billion will be in the next report.

[TheLyonKing]

There intent on selling the building extends further back, I would think they would have forcasted that into their budget if the deal went theough but you might be right, either way I am happy at how proactive sony are being

[TreeFiddy]

Good job.

[EffectO]

US building will be in next quarter,i think.

[Jopple]

Kaz is working hard as ever. Gotta love the determination in that mans eyes, I am not gay but it is a very sexy level of determination.

[theDECAY]

No homo.

[00000000000000000001]

Yea, Good Job Sony, you had to sell your shirt to show a profit. Look up the word asset, it might enlighten you!

[Anon1974]

It doesn't appear Sony's recent real estate transactions that made the news are included in this report. The figures on this report that deal with property barely budged from the same quarter last year.

And since when is selling assets "selling your shirt"? Company's like Sony sell assets all the time. They made millions off these transactions. I don't recall anyone complaining when Microsoft sold off their stake in MSNBC, or saying MS was "selling their shirt". Sony's corporate assets sit at a record $170 billion. Selling a building worth a billion, or even 2 buildings, and making money on it in the process is hardly "selling your shirt". It's reallocating resources back into the company.

Sony's sitting on the biggest cash position they've seen in damn near 20 years. They aren't cash starved despite what some in the media have claimed. Even a cursory search through financial figures shows that, although I can't remember the last time something like "backing up your claims with research" was important to a lot in the media. I'm not claiming for a second that Sony aren't going through one of the most difficult times in the company's history, but they're so far from "selling their shirt" it's not even funny.

If you sold your home because you can't pay your mortgage, that's one thing. If you capitalize on real estate prices and sold an investment property that accounted for a minuscule percentage of your overall assets, making millions in the process, and then took that capital and reinvested it back into your core business where it then has a chance to earn a greater return as part of an overall restructuring, isn't that an entirely different scenario?

Overall though, a $115 million net loss is a massive improvement over the $2.1 billion net loss they posted last year. And they're only midway through their restructuring efforts.

http://www.zdnet.com/2013-t...

[NeloAnjelo]

It's important to note that the PS brand remained profitable during thieir red phases... To sell more games Sony needs to change their marketing strategy... How, What, Where and When...? Key but simple priciples. Let's see gameplay, let's hear about your exclusive games. No point investing and making them if no one knows their coming out... The new Sly Cooper is a good example. No marketing what so ever.

They've consolidated the number of TVs on the market, and made good strides to minimise their product lines. Good start.

[kenshiro100]

Kaz is putting the company back in order. I'm proud of that, because I would hate for a company that has consistent quality to go down like that.

[Lvl_up_gamer]

Maybe on Feb 20th Sony is going to announce they will no longer be able to continue in the home console business for next gen because of their current gaming division profit in Q3 of a devastating $6 million.....

Hard to imagine a company releasing a console when they just now started making a profit in the gaming department and it's only $6 million which is the PS2, PS3, PS Vita and PSP COMBINED.

If Sony does decide to release a PS4, how can anyone not see that they will take the MS route and start charging for a unified online gaming experience similar to XBL.

[Ripsta7th]

Yeah i also think they will charge , but maybe a smaller fee than MS, i'd be happy if they did cause it would benefit Sony

[fsfsxii]

Stop being a butt-hurt fanboy, sony isn't going to build massive hype and just announce that they're going out simply as that

[Hicken]

Um, you DO realize that, in all likelihood, R&D costs for the PS4 have been part of their losses over the past few years?

Additionally, the gaming division has been profitable for quite some time.

Man, if you're gonna troll, at least don't be so easy to refute.

[madpuppy]

All the clowns that were hoping that Sony was going out of business are doing this now.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Knight_Crawler]

And all the clowns that were saying that the PS3 will kill the 360 just like the PS2 killed the Dream Cast are back under a bridge.

[madpuppy]

Frankly, you would have to be an ignorant flat-head to want Sony, MS or The big N to pull out of the console business.

It's a proven fact that without competition, an industry stagnates and the customer/consumer is the one that loses in the end. (with low quality, outdated hardware and games.)

so, while all those idiots are longing for a one console future, I will be happy with the innovation, quality and lower prices that competition ALWAYS provides.

[Ripsta7th]

IM guessing PS PLUS has been of great help! I just got the 1 month free trial that came with my ps3 but im liking the free games i downloaded so im plannning on getting a year befeore the free 3 months promotion expire :) Keep it up Sony

[ironmonkey]

Been a satisfied sony fan since ps1 and charging for a service wont hurt me one bit. Its games alone make it well worth it.

[Captain Tuttle]

I posted in the other story but Kaz needs to go for the throat and make some tough decisions.

To start, TV's and Vita have to go. Vita because there's no market for it (they've cut sales targets from 16 million to 12 million to 10 million to 7 million). It's in danger of being pulled from retailers imo. Regarding TV's, they can't compete with the Koreans in a commoditized market. If they MUST stay with TV's for some stupid reason then cut their offerings to the bone (maybe 4 or 5 models, all high end).

[NateCole]

LOL! A lot of shareholders posting here.

[Silly gameAr]

Yeah, it's like sitting in on some kind of financial meeting or something.

[Clarence]

Kaz doing his thing. Looks like there will be a PS4.

[smashcrashbash]

If they announce the PS4 that will skyrocket their success.Nothing like bringing a new console to make you look good. And if that reveal is followed by a price drop for the PS3 then that will just be icing on the cake.

[sdplisken]

Good morning. On February 20th 2013, sony fanboys from here will join others from around the world. And you will be launching the largest console battle in the history of playstation. "Playstation." That word should have new meaning for all of us today. We can't be consumed by our petty differences anymore. We will be united in our common interests. Perhaps it's fate that in a few days will be the 20th of February, and you will once again be fighting for our freedom... Not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution... but from annihilation. We are fighting for our right to live. To exist. And should we win the day, the 20th of february will no longer be known as some random day, but as the day the sony fanboys declared in one voice: "We will not go quietly into the night!" We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive! Today we celebrate the Playstation 4!

[Sp1d3ynut]

Back in black
I hit the sack
I've been too long I'm glad to be back
Yes I'm, let loose
From the noose
That's kept me hanging about
I keep looking at the sky
'Cause it's gettin' me high
Forget the herse 'cause I'll never die
I got nine lives
Cat's eyes
Usin' every one of them and running wild

'Cause I'm back
Yes, I'm back
Well, I'm back
Yes, I'm back
Well, I'm back, back
(Well) I'm back in black
Yes, I'm back in black

Back in the back
Of a Cadillac
Number one with a bullet, I'm a power pack
Yes, I'm in a bang
With a gang
They've got to catch me if they want me to hang
Cause I'm back on the track
And I'm leadin' the pack
Nobody's gonna get me on another rap
So look at me now
I'm just makin' my play
Don't try to push your luck, just get out of my way

'Cause I'm back
Yes, I'm back
Well, I'm back
Yes, I'm back
Well, I'm back, back
(Well) I'm back in black
Yes, I'm back in black

Well, I'm back, Yes I'm back
Well, I'm back, Yes I'm back
Well, I'm back, back
Well I'm back in black
Yes I'm back in black

Hooo yeah
Ohh yeah
Yes I am
Oooh yeah, yeah Oh yeah
Back in now
Well I'm back, I'm back
Back, I'm back
Back, I'm back
Back, I'm back
Back, I'm back
Back
Back in black
Yes I'm back in black

Outta sight

[Funky Town_TX]

I was thinking about thay song while reading the post. I listen to that song about once a week.

[jakmckratos]

Even with a lackluster year in terms of titles and new hardware...they must be cutting corners in other places..